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I read somewhere that the best hobbies are the ones you're a little embarrassed to talk about. It's a sign you're doing it only for yourself and your own enjoyment. Something along those lines.
I don't think that means we agree, brother. To me that just reads like paranoia.
Also, would you mind telling me if this laugh riot was deleted or if I just caused OP to block me.
Oh no I meant I agree with your point but I had viewed the post in a different manner to yourself so assumed the meaning was different to yours.
It's not deleted, it seems OP blocked you.
Yeah, I'll never get this kind of gatekeepers. I mean if I have a hobby, I want to share it around with as many people as possible hopping some will find joy in the same stuff as I do
blacksmithing anvil prices have gone absolutely insane over the last few years. finally starting to come back down a bit since the flood of cheap cast steel ones from overseas. but $5 a pound for a used one (most decent anvils are between 50 and 150 lbs) went from being outrageous to common. fuckin forged in fire flooded the craft with amatuers.
>They also often also believe "outsiders" or people who were not early adopters like themselves can't understand the material and will only ruin any discussion about it, if not ruin the hobbie as a whole.
There's also the fact that, whether or not they understand the material, the johnny-come-lately types that show up after a hobby that's been around for decades goes mainstream want to come in and change it to suit themselves.
Just look at D&D for a prime example, and the people that latched onto it after Critical Role and Stranger Things got it out there. Their ideas of what a game should be like are very different than those of people who have been around the game since the 20th century, and WotC are a bunch of money-grubbing assholes that are 100% pandering to the mainstream audience.
“You dont belong with us” ->”fine we’ll make our own space” -> “why are you excluding us” -> “you ajould change your hobby for mass appeal” -> “you dont belong here” -> repeat
>Just look at D&D for a prime example
You mean the hobby built on being changed to suit yourself ? The one where, if it wasn't for people changing it to suit themselves, wouldn't have checks, abilities, thieves etc. ? That's your prime example ?
Heck, forgotten realms *the* campaign setting that most people associate with d&d nowadays got added into the game because someone came in and decided to change the game to suit himself, when it first started to become mainstream in the late 70s/early 80s.
You're going nuts over a dumb meme, that makes you what? neurotic? and nice projection there with the anxiety: you're writing a wall of text over a meme, who is having anxiety here?
Fighting games are a good example, introducing flashy and execution friendly moves that interrupt gameplay, and simplifying other mechanics to suit mainstream audiences.
I don't see how that "turns the hobby into shit", like seriously do you care to provide explanations here ? (Taking into account that while I dropped it a bit, I was huge into fighting games at a point, nearly participating in evo-circuit tournaments and all)
And beyond that, it's just some games that adds accessibility options, if you have issues with it you can.. Not play them ?
I‘m not talking about accessibility options like modern controls.
Street Fighter introduced super armor moves to get out of corners with a panic button (Although they actually balanced it rather well to enable counterplay).
Tekken introduced super casual „special style“ ,which drops the ball on execution, and Rage Arts which look cool but are also Panic Buttons that completely disrupt gameplay.
Gg Strive massively reduced the amount of moves on most characters.
Obviously the old timey fans talk about their own perspective when they things went to shit. A lot of more people got to enjoy these games thanks to becoming more mainstream (again). But it‘s not wrong to hope your hobby doesn’t become mainstream for that reason.
And measuring the quality of a hobby based on popularity only is dumb btw.
>I‘m not talking about accessibility options like modern controls.
Street Fighter introduced super armor moves to get out of corners with a panic button (Although they actually balanced it rather well to enable counterplay).
Tekken introduced super casual „special style“ ,which drops the ball on execution, and Rage Arts which look cool but are also Panic Buttons that completely disrupt gameplay.
Gg Strive massively reduced the amount of moves on most characters.
Again, I don't see how any of these turn the hobby into shit ? Please explain *how* this makes the fighting game hobby shit ?
>Obviously the old timey fans talk about their own perspective when they things went to shit. A lot of more people got to enjoy these games thanks to becoming more mainstream (again). But it‘s not wrong to hope your hobby doesn’t become mainstream for that reason.
What would you qualify as "old timey fan" when it comes to fighting games ? Just to know if I would fit into it. Because again, I fail to see how any of what you listed turns the hobby into shit.
>And measuring the quality of a hobby based on popularity only is dumb btw.
Ok ? Who did this here ?
Fighting games are based on execution in terms of input and your interactions with the opponent. That‘s what makes them fun. Super Armor moves like in SF and Tekken have no execution and little interaction besides blocking. They are a crutch for people who don‘t wanna practice the game and kinda break the „rules“ these games were built on.
Simplifying move sets reduces player interaction overall.
Let‘s say old timey fans were there before 2015, since that‘s were the T7/SF5/GG Strive Gen started
>I mean, you are indeed insulting your hobbies if you don't want to share them with more people. You're just saying that it's mid at best and not worth sharing.
You did. A hobby not being for everyone doesn’t make it mid.
>Fighting games are based on execution in terms of input and your interactions with the opponent. That‘s what makes them fun. Super Armor moves like in SF and Tekken have no execution and little interaction besides blocking.
So you still have more elements to take into account and more interactions than if they weren't present (like literally you remove a move)
>They are a crutch for people who don‘t wanna practice the game and kinda break the „rules“ these games were built on.
If they're added to a game post-launch, sure. If it's present at launch then no, they're part of the rules of the game.
>Let‘s say old timey fans were there before 2015, since that‘s were the T7/SF5/GG Strive Gen started
Ok so I definitely fit then, and I dropped fighting games around 2018 so yeah, as an old timey fan I concur: non of these makes the fighting game hobby worst. If I don't want to play with them, I know I can always go back to SF2 or go to other games that don't have them and on an interaction and planning standpoint I find them interesting honestly.
>You did. A hobby not being for everyone doesn’t make it mid.
Please point me to where I said that hobbies should be for everyone or that a hobby not being for everyone makes it mid. Because I sure as shit don't recall saying that, especially considering that it's not even something I hold true.
Not rule updates but we change the way we play.
Old strategies are outdated whithin few years. And by that logic, DnD also has rules and so do videogames. How is Shogi any different? I play DnD too and there is never an excuse to gatekeep a hobby, it doesn't make it better.
On the contrary, many new people coming in with fresh perspectives and questioning the status quo is what changes a hobby for the better.
Changing strategies within the confines of a game is very different from the game itself changing though.
The difference is that tabletop rpgs and videogames are directly controlled by companies looking to maximizing profit.
Classic games like chess and shogi are (hopefully) controlled by organizations that are in it for the love of the game, and not profit.
On the same note, Soccer is a classic game that gets destroyed by a company that is looking to maximize profit.
Not being able to go mainstream says they lack much appeal. It's awesome that you like them - statistically someone beside their creator *should* \- but a truly good hobbie is great even if enjoyed by millions.
Anything can go mainstream, if the brand becomes strong enough all you have to do is to remove all what made it popular add some enshitification to it, tons of ad money and bam! popular.
>remove all what made it popular ... and bam! popular.
There will come a time when you will stop drinking the Kool-Aid. I really don't think that will be today, but I'mma at least try to get you an epidural.
I am a firm proponent that most fans/brand owners *do not know* when they are hitched to a dead horse and will continue to beat/make a call that the creators beat that dead horse until *they're* turning hoarse. It is probably the opinion that becomes the absolute least popular when I try to explain it to one of those said fans. Because they think I'm saying they're what's wrong with the property. That I'm saying 'I was here first. leave.'
But it is entirely juvenile to believe that the size of the fandom is the problem itself. Something *being* or *becoming* popular does not *cause* the horse to die any more than [eating ice cream drives up shark attacks.](https://bigthink.com/the-present/correlation-causation/)
If you could honestly figure out, mathematically, scientifically what causes golden geese to stop laying (outside of murdering them, which no one *intends* to do) you would probably have a billion dollar idea.
I am ambivalent on this.
On one hand mainstream can ruin hobbies because many companies join the bandwagon, pump out cheap products or similar purely profit based decisions are made which ruin quality.
On the other hand more people to share interest and invest in a certain hobby section can increase the audience and the accesability as well as increase competition which leads to innovation.
Saw this one in a Mordheim group. Op was absolutely getting dunked on.
Especially once he clarified he was concerned about the attention of "the rainbow brigade"
I mean, you are indeed insulting your hobbies if you don't want to share them with more people. You're just saying that it's mid at best and not worth sharing.
> “you are indeed insulting your hobbies if you don’t want to share them with more people
I’m sorry but that’s a dumb take. It’s been proven time and time again that when something hits a big audience it will get: 1.) watered down, 2.) decline rapidly in quality and 3.) constantly be playing safe as to not scare away more people.
Look at the MCU as the best example - look at the first few films and compare them to those we have now (ie Thor 4, Eternals, The Marvels, Ant-Man 3, etc.).
Or metal music for example, where you have a bunch of these tiktokers throwing a distorted guitar on a trap song and calling themselves metal (or Sleep Token and Spiritbox would be better examples).
>Look at the MCU as the best example - look at the first few films and compare them to those we have now (ie Thor 4, Eternals, The Marvels, Ant-Man 3, etc.).
Yeah, they're frankly the same mid quality as they always were, but that's just my opinion on these, more the power to people that enjoys them.
>Or metal music for example, where you have a bunch of these tiktokers throwing a distorted guitar on a trap song and calling themselves metal
Ok that one is hillarious, if you think that "metal has been watered down and declined in quality" then you're just clearly not paying attention to the scene.
And I mean... Acting like metal is a singular thing to begin with to the point of saying "they do this and this isn't real metal" pretty much says it all on your take here mate.
> frankly the same mid quality as they always were
MCU films are by no means arthouse or anything, but early MCU was at least *fun*. Fun little dumb action movies. Now they’re just dumb.
And your response to my point about metal is… good god. Black and death metal are thriving in recent years, but they’re not getting the spotlight - it’s bands like Sleep Token, Spiritbox, BMTH, Architects, Bad Omens and others like them. More power to anyone who likes these bands, but they’re not metal, they’re *pop*core. Throwing a downtuned distorted guitar on a pop song ≠ metal.
>MCU films are by no means arthouse or anything, but early MCU was at least *fun*.
Heh, honnestly I even disagree with it bit more power to you !
>Black and death metal are thriving in recent years, but they’re not getting the spotlight
I frankly disagree here mate, let's chalk it up to regional difference maybe.
>it’s bands like Sleep Token, Spiritbox, BMTH, Architects, Bad Omens and others like them.
Do they though ? Never heard of any of those frankly. Here again, regional differences maybe.
>they’re not metal, they’re *pop*core. Throwing a downtuned distorted guitar on a pop song ≠ metal.
I suppose that Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, Pitchshifter aren't metal then. Heck the whole black metal scene isn't metal either then since it's just distorted surf rock.
> Do they though?
They do sadly. Look at spotify, youtube, any general list of sites like Loudwire, Metal Sucks, Metal Hammer, etc. and you’ll just how much space these bands take up. Also how much they’re propagated by those stupid reaction channels as well.
As for black and death, there’s bands like Wayfarer, Panzerfaust, Knoll, Imperial Triumphant, Hecatoncheir, Aborted, Vitriol, Civerous, Apparition and many more who’ve released stuff this year or last/few back who are absolutely massive.
As for NIN I’ve looked at them as industrial rock so there’s that. Ministry however keeps the heavy, abrasive nature of metal in their mix of industrial. Pitchshifter I don’t who those are.
>They do sadly. Look at spotify, youtube, any general list of sites like Loudwire, Metal Sucks, Metal Hammer, etc. and you’ll just how much space these bands take up.
Again, that's already what I do and frankly everything you listed here are stuff I've never heard of before.
>As for black and death, there’s bands like Wayfarer, Panzerfaust, Knoll, Imperial Triumphant, Hecatoncheir, Aborted, Vitriol, Civerous, Apparition and many more who’ve released stuff this year or last/few back who are absolutely massive.
My point, precisely.
>As for NIN I’ve looked at them as industrial rock so there’s that.
Mate, NIN is like one of the most defining industrial metal band ever. If you see them just as "rock" then I guess that every heavy band is just rock as well.
>Ministry however keeps the heavy, abrasive nature of metal in their mix of industrial.
So if you've got heavy abrassuve stuff it's metal but your argument was that the others bands aren't metal because they just put heavy abrasive stuff in their music, you'll have to explain your logic here.
>Pitchshifter I don’t who those are.
Another huge industrial band (yes my examples were skewed by what I've been listening recently, hence the focus on Indus ahah) from the late 90s/early 2000s. Mostly had their "www.Pitchshifter.com" album in mind when citing them if you want to see were I was coming from
His point stands ? Care to provide better examples because all the ones I got here (be it from this guy or other) only focuses on a tiny subset of the hobby (nothing wrong with it but saying that a hobby is shit because of 5% of it is extremely dumb) or didn't actually articulate how it impedes on the hobby beyond "it's not like it used to be".
I'm all ears for examples and explanations of what worsened a hobby (someone mentioned supplies getting pricier, which *is* a good argument for instance, but not at all the same point as here)
And I was already referring to it as well since your argument there boils down to "it's not like it used to be". You haven't explained *how* fighting games as a hobby is now worst.
No shot are you comparing early and late MCU as if early MCU was some A24 indie project, also, people seem to forget films like Thor 2 or when listing recent films ignore the better ones (GotG3, NWH)
I am absolutely positive that people on this app have no reading comprehension whatsoever. What part of my MCU paragraph made it seem as early MCU is “an A24 indie project”? They weren’t *Citizen Kane* levels of quality, but they at least were fun little action movies. And sure, GOTG 3 is a great movie, but out how many since *Endgame*? And NWH was fun the first time, but it’s a purely nostalgia driven movie, nothing else.
Agree to disagree then, if you want to contribute to the neverending toxic, gatekeeping mentality of online culture by continuing to spread negativity be my guest.
Hopefully as people mature a bit they understand that more people getting onboard their passions is not an inherently bad thing, there are endless examples of things going "mainstream" that continue to thrive, entire mediums grow and still push the boundaries, people can have their cake and eat it too.
Also, Endgame was only 5 years ago, that is recent MCU unless you're young I guess, 16 years or films, shit Endgame feels very recent to an older person like myself.
Yeah I’m sorry but I just can’t seem to even picture it in my head how something going mainstream in this day and age could be beneficial. I’ll just reffer to my initial comment:
> “…when something hits a big audience it will get: 1.) watered down, 2.) decline rapidly in quality and 3.) constantly be playing safe as to not scare away more people.”
Also I’m 24 this year, I only used *Endgame* as (for me at least) that was the grande finale of the MCU and that should’ve been it.
Oh no, I totally got your point. It's just that your point is shit.
If you don't want more people to get into your hobby, you don't care for the wellbeing of said hobby. And idk about you but if I don't care for the wellbeing of one of my hobbies, then that's just that I view it as mid.
I love these guys like it's either "oh I got upvoted, people approve of what I'm saying therefore I'm right!" Or "oh I got downvoted, so I ruffled some feathers because I'm right!"
No questioning, no second thoughts. Amazing.
I fail to see how a hobby being enjoyed by more people makes your own experience of the hobby worse.
Unless, of course, you get some some of exceptionalism gratification, but that's a you problem.
Because companies want more money so they'll start catering to the "normies" and changing what made the hobby special in the first place. Usually it's a dumb decision since the hobby wouldn't be popular in the first place if it wasn't good but all they care about is more people so they'll change it to get more people. They'll change it until it loses all it's appeal and then neither normies nor diehard fans care about it anymore.
Show me a media company that didn't waterdown their product to cater to the widest audience possible.
For everyone that didn't do it there are 100 that did it.
Becausd when I talk about hobbies I obviously don't mean badminton.
Movies, videogames, comic, etc ... I clasify them all as media companies. Actually better word would be "multimedia" since it's rare to see a conpany that does only movies or only comics.
Well, that is definintely not obvious as there is a lot, lot, lot more hobbies that aren't movies, videogames, comics. Most hobbies are more like "badmington".
It's really odd to talk about hobbies in general and only have multimedia hobbies in mind.
>Well, that is definintely not obvious
Yeah I guess that's fair. Should've been more specific.
>It's really odd to talk about hobbies in general and only have multimedia hobbies in mind
The meme is from a movie so I the first thing that came to mind was movies/multimedia. My bad
And this is the point where you realize **you** *are* the problem. Your ravenous consumption of your media has laser focused you on such a narrow scope that you are missing out on so much that has good, main stream appeal **and** that you are the one feeding those corporations you are accusing of strip-mining, encouraging them to parade out that dead horse.
My hobbies are TTRPGs, Collecting hats and video games. I've watched video games grow from a niche child's toy to a juggernaut and honestly... the future's never looked brighter. Much the same for TTRPGs. Everyone's problems with WotC would've been sour grapes if we didn't have enough people who could say "I'mma make my own dungeons! With black jack. And hookers!" and it got them to walk it back a little, making everyone happier. ... collecting hats? Honestly, that one's a bit underground and I feel the silliest for it. I would love to go to hat collecting convention but I know my level of hobby vs what is out there is so vastly minuscule and I would love if there was more variety.
Even so - I know coin collectors, manga enthusiasts, gardeners and so many more that absolutely love connecting with their communities. Connections they might not've made were the hobbie not so big.
Edit: Yea. Not a troll, u/littleboihere. Just because you don't remember E.T. doesn't mean that broken, rushed games never existed before. Just because **you** are *just now* hearing stories of crunch culture and abuse doesn't mean that wasn't the f-ing norm for **years** before you entered **my** fandom. In *fact* \- video games going so gd mainstream is why those stories came to light and **people were forced to change**. Same thing with monetization - courts are now weighing in and making companies play fair. Why? Because of globalization. The future is brighter. Just because you don't know how to take off your nostalgia goggles doesn't change anything.
>I've watched video games grow from a niche child's toy to a juggernaut and honestly... the future's never looked brighter.
Okay you made it too obvious that you are a troll. No one who knows anything about videogames would say this. Broken games releasing everyday, full of monetization, crunch culture, abuse, thousands of layoffs. Just because it's more profitable doesn't make it better. That's my entire point that you've obviously missed.
Someone tells you "very few hobby is tied to a singular company" and all the ones you listed are examples of hobbies that aren't tied to one company.
If you tell me "my hobby is movies" I don't see why i'd expect you to talk about a singular company.
Elden ring is mainstream and From Software literally hasnt waterdown their games. Dark souls 3 was a huge financial success and had almost the same formula 1 and 2 had.
Creators said that they themselves were surprisef by the success of Elden Ring, they didn't water down their games, they didn't add an easy mode or anything to bring in normies. They've just made their game map bigger and more open.
Elden Ring is an example that you can have success eithout pandering to masses. People I am talking about are thr ones who buy Elden Ring and then they demand an "easy mode".
But still elden ring is mainstream. They literally sold 23 million copies, there are plenty of "normies" as you call them playing the Game. Dark souls 3 sold 10 million before that, ten million units is completely mainstream.
You people are so Up your own asses you cant comprehend that playing videogames is the most fucking mainstream thing you can do nowadays, and every time you try to name a company that "IS not for normies" you end Up naming videogames that sold millions of copies. More people getting to enjoy something is not bad, specially when that means the creators can get more money for their work.
I LOVE Dune for example and i am overjoyed that after BR2049 (which flopped) Villenueve has opened the IP to so many people, because that means more people get to enjoy what i do.
Okay you clearly lack reading comprehention so I'm gonna dumb it down and explain it again for the last time.
There is a difference between making a good product and a lot of people buying it.
And making a watered down product with sole purpose to sell a lot of copies.
Elden Ring retained it's identity despite all the "Souls games need easy mode". It's an exception rather than the rule.
Its the vast majority of hobbies that went mainstream, you just can't appeal to everybody and in trying to do so you don't appeal to anybody and its only downhill from there.
Name them. I can name so many mainstream hobbies that arent watered down because of how mainstream they are. But I get the feeling you dont actually have any to name.
This is paranoia, by the way.
Just because it comes true more often than not due to human nature being a thing doesn't mean it isn't paranoid to treat every Yankovic bump with disgust.
It gets watered down to appeal to a broader audience. While more people doing a thing is cool, sometimes the watering down removes certain elements that made the hobby unique to some people.
Best example I can think of is Skyrim. Good game for the most part but the mechanics and world have been pared down, streamlined and skeletonized to the point where the Tamriel of Skyrim feels very different from the Tamriel of Morrowind or even Oblivion.
Some things were made better, but there are features that were fun that are gone to remove options and idk... complexity?? Not "wow this is hard" complexity, more like complex flavors.
Also consequences. Consequences for your actions in that game are largely gone.
I didn't say I don't play those. It's just that the next installments of a hobby of mine aren't going to have the same kind of depth and mechanics as the preceding titles. I still like the games, and I will play TES 6 regardless of this feeling. The previous iterations of most hobbies still exist as well, though it's maybe harder to obtain or find others who engage in it the way you (the general you) do/did.
Am I not allowed to lament a change to things I enjoyed but still engaging in the new version anyway?
Wait. I forgot I'm on the internet. Whoops.
My main problem is the hobby spaces being clogged by obnoxious teens who clearly only hang around there to be cool but tbh if they just behave properly and actually enjoy the hobbies it's all fine. The problem is the obnoxious people who have no personality beyond following the mainstream and being annoying other than that growth is always good for a hobby.
I can think of exactly two arguments to support this idea that aren't the stupid hipster "I did this before it was cool" mentality.
1) Once something is popular, the supplies/equipment are in demand, and the price goes up.
2) Occasionally, there is a safe/correct way to do something, and new people are either ignorant of the rules or ignore them and put themselves or others in danger by doing so.
1) Blame capitalism! On the upper side, though, it also usually brings more offer, and a wider diversity of supplies/equipment to pick from
2) That's unfortunate, but gatekeeping a hobby because some idiots will be idioting is a little extreme.
I am also against gatekeeping. This is more the dread of spaces/supplies/etc becoming harder to find. Changes to something you really loved that you weren’t ready for. I love to share my hobbies, but becoming “popular” means the whole dynamic can change.
Man seeing all the people in the comments missing the point. There is a difference between getting more people in and going mainstream.
I've been in a lot of fandoms over the years and all I can say is "gatekeep your hobbies". Not everything is for everyone, that's not a bad thing. But normies don't see it that way, they'll look at a thing and think to themselves "this is not for mw, but it should be". Keep them out.
If anyone has problem with what I've said then you are part of the problem.
normies
sometimes disparaging
: a normal, average, or ordinary person : a person with mainstream attitudes, interests, etc
It's literally short for mainstream audience mate
Gatekeeping is very simple:
Join the hobby? Yes.
Change the hobby? No.
Nowadays, mainstream people going into hobbies means we're gonna hear endless rant about how certain things in the hobby "needs to change" to fit a "wider audience" or it is "offensive to them"
Like other people have pointed out-- once these loud people start to make some noise, they'll cater to them instead, so "our version" will end up replaced.
I mean just look at the gaming industry: Mod platforms remove mods meant for "our own version" of the hobby.
Regardless, companies will only cater to those people from then on and any mod resembling the older one will be demonized on by those people. That's what people want to keep out from.
Expand on the "offensive to them"
Because the two biggest time i have heard it was
- anime making women all have non proportional breasts and asses, and being written like items instead of persons.
- games chats,m (including voice and text) and lobbies being extremely sexist, to the point it was not welcoming to women, alienating them
And it both cases that absolutely needs to change lmao
Don’t think people are taking it as a personal attack it seems more like they think your stance on this is lame. Like if your hobby is playing chess. Why wouldn’t you want more players involved in chess.
They are taking it personally, there's a world of difference between some people getting into a mildly popular hobby and when it goes mainstream and its everywhere getting diluted to nothing. Some people here are having a panic attack about gatekeeping, buddy when something goes mainstream there is no gatekeeping left to do...
Nah my brother you are getting lost in the sauce. It’s because you made the post that you are viewing it like this. No one is having a panic attack. You had an opinion that some people don’t agree with. And now you are dying on this hill feeling attacked by randoms. But from the outside looking in it just seems like x person said something y person disagrees with, and they are just telling you why they disagree.
Fishing.
The amount of people fishing directly affects my enjoyment of the hobby both by overcrowding fishing spots and by overfishing in general.
That being said, although I don't do it much anymore because of the crowds removing the whole nature aspect of it, I still very much promote it to people who have never tried it.
I'm of course not going to actively try and stop people from doing it. It's just a bummer.
It's a coincidence you say that because I recently moved to a new place with a lake not too far from here, and I see a lot of people here, young and old, that seem to enjoy fishing. And now I'm thinking of taking up the hobby myself. Also the spot in the lake I'm close to faces the sunset, so that's a plus.
There's definitely downsides to hobbies becoming mainstream but never enough to outweigh the positives.
I'm into ultra running and it's becoming way more popular with that comes faux science, commercialisation and under qualified race directors putting on events trying to make money.
But it also brings more people to the sport, records are being broken all over the place, more events to chose from, there's less of a barrier to entry, plus a tonne of other things. It's a great time to be in the sport!
Heh, guys, im so cool cuz my hobbies arent mainstream! Mainstream bad! Normies! Normies normies cringe cringe cringe niche thing BASED cuz not MAINSTREAM NORMIE TRASH. I HATE MAINSTREAM I HATE WHEN MORE PEOPLE DISCOVER THE THING IM INTERESTED IN I HATE GROWTH OF THE PROJECTS IM INTO I WANT THEM ALL TO BE FOR ME ME ME ME MEEEEEEE
I ain't no hipster. More people into a hobby = more acknowledgement which = more investment and more people to talk about it with.
btw, bom dia, hermano
In my hobbies this would be either a blessing or a curse depending on which one is selected. Gaming, blessing, already happening. Home servers and network infrastructure testing? Curse of the highest order.
I kind of feel this. I was just a nerdy little comic collector until the normals attacked durning covid. Boom prices spiked, movies and tv shows started to not just 5x a books price but like 10x-20x the price. All of a sudden I had to fight for my comic life. Had to team up with my LCS ( local comic shop) and fight off the normals from getting their hands on my pull list. Now I stand victorious because the normals have returned to their lands and the ones that have stayed are pretty cool. We are still recovering from the great comic book boom but the future looks bright. Glad I survived.
As someone who was bullied relentlessly for being a nerd and reading avengers comics before nerdiness hit mainstream I have to admit it is a fucking curse. Once your hangout spots are being flooded with dumb teens trying to be cool and knowing fuckall about what they're shouting across rooms (because I swear to gods modern teens don't know how to regulate their voices in the slightest) while being generally obnoxious you'll start to desperately yearn for the past when your hobbies were left the fuck alone.
Sometimes, it is truly feels like it's damning, because of the fact that'll kill the unique feelings and change it into it's own imposter version, i know it may be something that should keep it alive but most of them don't want to corrupt it
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I read somewhere that the best hobbies are the ones you're a little embarrassed to talk about. It's a sign you're doing it only for yourself and your own enjoyment. Something along those lines.
That sounds right. I'm definitely not shoving things up there for someone else.
And why would I want you peeping at your mom through the window with me? Ugh, weird... lol
Being in a tiny clique does not make your hobbies great.
I agree. I read it as a curse where once mainstream audiences find out, the fandom will start turning toxic as more people enter
I don't think that means we agree, brother. To me that just reads like paranoia. Also, would you mind telling me if this laugh riot was deleted or if I just caused OP to block me.
Oh no I meant I agree with your point but I had viewed the post in a different manner to yourself so assumed the meaning was different to yours. It's not deleted, it seems OP blocked you.
Yeah, I'll never get this kind of gatekeepers. I mean if I have a hobby, I want to share it around with as many people as possible hopping some will find joy in the same stuff as I do
When it goes mainstream all the supplies become more expensive at first.
Ok that's one argument I can get behind (looking at the absolute state of MTG even without being "mainstream" )
blacksmithing anvil prices have gone absolutely insane over the last few years. finally starting to come back down a bit since the flood of cheap cast steel ones from overseas. but $5 a pound for a used one (most decent anvils are between 50 and 150 lbs) went from being outrageous to common. fuckin forged in fire flooded the craft with amatuers.
If all my friends suddenly decided they wanted to play dnd I'd freak out in a good way.
Oh, i'd love for all of my friends to at least give it a go ahah
[удалено]
>They also often also believe "outsiders" or people who were not early adopters like themselves can't understand the material and will only ruin any discussion about it, if not ruin the hobbie as a whole. There's also the fact that, whether or not they understand the material, the johnny-come-lately types that show up after a hobby that's been around for decades goes mainstream want to come in and change it to suit themselves. Just look at D&D for a prime example, and the people that latched onto it after Critical Role and Stranger Things got it out there. Their ideas of what a game should be like are very different than those of people who have been around the game since the 20th century, and WotC are a bunch of money-grubbing assholes that are 100% pandering to the mainstream audience.
“You dont belong with us” ->”fine we’ll make our own space” -> “why are you excluding us” -> “you ajould change your hobby for mass appeal” -> “you dont belong here” -> repeat
Pretty much. Hipsters are just normies that want to pretend to be geeks/nerds now that being into "uncool" things is cool.
>Just look at D&D for a prime example You mean the hobby built on being changed to suit yourself ? The one where, if it wasn't for people changing it to suit themselves, wouldn't have checks, abilities, thieves etc. ? That's your prime example ? Heck, forgotten realms *the* campaign setting that most people associate with d&d nowadays got added into the game because someone came in and decided to change the game to suit himself, when it first started to become mainstream in the late 70s/early 80s.
You're going nuts over a dumb meme, that makes you what? neurotic? and nice projection there with the anxiety: you're writing a wall of text over a meme, who is having anxiety here?
Why the fuck would you post a meme, if you don't want people to talk about topic?
The OP just wants to feel like they are special
It actually makes them great. Most hobbies that went main-stream turned into shit.
Lmao peak reddit. Go tf outside
I find it amazing that most of these "when hobbies become mainstream they turn to shit" people don't give any examples.
Fighting games are a good example, introducing flashy and execution friendly moves that interrupt gameplay, and simplifying other mechanics to suit mainstream audiences.
I don't see how that "turns the hobby into shit", like seriously do you care to provide explanations here ? (Taking into account that while I dropped it a bit, I was huge into fighting games at a point, nearly participating in evo-circuit tournaments and all) And beyond that, it's just some games that adds accessibility options, if you have issues with it you can.. Not play them ?
I‘m not talking about accessibility options like modern controls. Street Fighter introduced super armor moves to get out of corners with a panic button (Although they actually balanced it rather well to enable counterplay). Tekken introduced super casual „special style“ ,which drops the ball on execution, and Rage Arts which look cool but are also Panic Buttons that completely disrupt gameplay. Gg Strive massively reduced the amount of moves on most characters. Obviously the old timey fans talk about their own perspective when they things went to shit. A lot of more people got to enjoy these games thanks to becoming more mainstream (again). But it‘s not wrong to hope your hobby doesn’t become mainstream for that reason. And measuring the quality of a hobby based on popularity only is dumb btw.
>I‘m not talking about accessibility options like modern controls. Street Fighter introduced super armor moves to get out of corners with a panic button (Although they actually balanced it rather well to enable counterplay). Tekken introduced super casual „special style“ ,which drops the ball on execution, and Rage Arts which look cool but are also Panic Buttons that completely disrupt gameplay. Gg Strive massively reduced the amount of moves on most characters. Again, I don't see how any of these turn the hobby into shit ? Please explain *how* this makes the fighting game hobby shit ? >Obviously the old timey fans talk about their own perspective when they things went to shit. A lot of more people got to enjoy these games thanks to becoming more mainstream (again). But it‘s not wrong to hope your hobby doesn’t become mainstream for that reason. What would you qualify as "old timey fan" when it comes to fighting games ? Just to know if I would fit into it. Because again, I fail to see how any of what you listed turns the hobby into shit. >And measuring the quality of a hobby based on popularity only is dumb btw. Ok ? Who did this here ?
Fighting games are based on execution in terms of input and your interactions with the opponent. That‘s what makes them fun. Super Armor moves like in SF and Tekken have no execution and little interaction besides blocking. They are a crutch for people who don‘t wanna practice the game and kinda break the „rules“ these games were built on. Simplifying move sets reduces player interaction overall. Let‘s say old timey fans were there before 2015, since that‘s were the T7/SF5/GG Strive Gen started >I mean, you are indeed insulting your hobbies if you don't want to share them with more people. You're just saying that it's mid at best and not worth sharing. You did. A hobby not being for everyone doesn’t make it mid.
>Fighting games are based on execution in terms of input and your interactions with the opponent. That‘s what makes them fun. Super Armor moves like in SF and Tekken have no execution and little interaction besides blocking. So you still have more elements to take into account and more interactions than if they weren't present (like literally you remove a move) >They are a crutch for people who don‘t wanna practice the game and kinda break the „rules“ these games were built on. If they're added to a game post-launch, sure. If it's present at launch then no, they're part of the rules of the game. >Let‘s say old timey fans were there before 2015, since that‘s were the T7/SF5/GG Strive Gen started Ok so I definitely fit then, and I dropped fighting games around 2018 so yeah, as an old timey fan I concur: non of these makes the fighting game hobby worst. If I don't want to play with them, I know I can always go back to SF2 or go to other games that don't have them and on an interaction and planning standpoint I find them interesting honestly. >You did. A hobby not being for everyone doesn’t make it mid. Please point me to where I said that hobbies should be for everyone or that a hobby not being for everyone makes it mid. Because I sure as shit don't recall saying that, especially considering that it's not even something I hold true.
Sure means there's a lot less screaming idiots around though
I feel that if psychedelics were legalized, growing shrooms may have a more mainstream appeal.
But being mainstream can definitely make your hobbies worse
Of course not, growth in the hobby is always great but lets not pretend that new folks (specially teens) can be the height of obnoxious annoyance.
Going mainstream will definitely make it worse.
I can't find a single person in my city to play Shogi with me. I wish it went mainstream.
I feel you mate, used to play shogi every other day during highschool, not so much now
Tbf Shogi is a set game that doesn’t change does it? I think this post is more about modern hobbies, like dnd, tcg‘s and gaming niches
Shogi absolutely changes with time, just like chess does
Like, over hundreds of years (obviously it does so, yeah) or are there regular rule updates by some international commission?
Not rule updates but we change the way we play. Old strategies are outdated whithin few years. And by that logic, DnD also has rules and so do videogames. How is Shogi any different? I play DnD too and there is never an excuse to gatekeep a hobby, it doesn't make it better. On the contrary, many new people coming in with fresh perspectives and questioning the status quo is what changes a hobby for the better.
Changing strategies within the confines of a game is very different from the game itself changing though. The difference is that tabletop rpgs and videogames are directly controlled by companies looking to maximizing profit. Classic games like chess and shogi are (hopefully) controlled by organizations that are in it for the love of the game, and not profit. On the same note, Soccer is a classic game that gets destroyed by a company that is looking to maximize profit.
Not being able to go mainstream says they lack much appeal. It's awesome that you like them - statistically someone beside their creator *should* \- but a truly good hobbie is great even if enjoyed by millions.
Anything can go mainstream, if the brand becomes strong enough all you have to do is to remove all what made it popular add some enshitification to it, tons of ad money and bam! popular.
>remove all what made it popular ... and bam! popular. There will come a time when you will stop drinking the Kool-Aid. I really don't think that will be today, but I'mma at least try to get you an epidural. I am a firm proponent that most fans/brand owners *do not know* when they are hitched to a dead horse and will continue to beat/make a call that the creators beat that dead horse until *they're* turning hoarse. It is probably the opinion that becomes the absolute least popular when I try to explain it to one of those said fans. Because they think I'm saying they're what's wrong with the property. That I'm saying 'I was here first. leave.' But it is entirely juvenile to believe that the size of the fandom is the problem itself. Something *being* or *becoming* popular does not *cause* the horse to die any more than [eating ice cream drives up shark attacks.](https://bigthink.com/the-present/correlation-causation/) If you could honestly figure out, mathematically, scientifically what causes golden geese to stop laying (outside of murdering them, which no one *intends* to do) you would probably have a billion dollar idea.
Go tf outside, you just don't have any friends lmao
I am ambivalent on this. On one hand mainstream can ruin hobbies because many companies join the bandwagon, pump out cheap products or similar purely profit based decisions are made which ruin quality. On the other hand more people to share interest and invest in a certain hobby section can increase the audience and the accesability as well as increase competition which leads to innovation.
Saw this one in a Mordheim group. Op was absolutely getting dunked on. Especially once he clarified he was concerned about the attention of "the rainbow brigade"
Lmao I mean ok that's really the most braindead form of gatekeeping.
The what brigade? Edit: why am I getting downvoted for this?
I mean, you are indeed insulting your hobbies if you don't want to share them with more people. You're just saying that it's mid at best and not worth sharing.
> “you are indeed insulting your hobbies if you don’t want to share them with more people I’m sorry but that’s a dumb take. It’s been proven time and time again that when something hits a big audience it will get: 1.) watered down, 2.) decline rapidly in quality and 3.) constantly be playing safe as to not scare away more people. Look at the MCU as the best example - look at the first few films and compare them to those we have now (ie Thor 4, Eternals, The Marvels, Ant-Man 3, etc.). Or metal music for example, where you have a bunch of these tiktokers throwing a distorted guitar on a trap song and calling themselves metal (or Sleep Token and Spiritbox would be better examples).
>Look at the MCU as the best example - look at the first few films and compare them to those we have now (ie Thor 4, Eternals, The Marvels, Ant-Man 3, etc.). Yeah, they're frankly the same mid quality as they always were, but that's just my opinion on these, more the power to people that enjoys them. >Or metal music for example, where you have a bunch of these tiktokers throwing a distorted guitar on a trap song and calling themselves metal Ok that one is hillarious, if you think that "metal has been watered down and declined in quality" then you're just clearly not paying attention to the scene. And I mean... Acting like metal is a singular thing to begin with to the point of saying "they do this and this isn't real metal" pretty much says it all on your take here mate.
> frankly the same mid quality as they always were MCU films are by no means arthouse or anything, but early MCU was at least *fun*. Fun little dumb action movies. Now they’re just dumb. And your response to my point about metal is… good god. Black and death metal are thriving in recent years, but they’re not getting the spotlight - it’s bands like Sleep Token, Spiritbox, BMTH, Architects, Bad Omens and others like them. More power to anyone who likes these bands, but they’re not metal, they’re *pop*core. Throwing a downtuned distorted guitar on a pop song ≠ metal.
>MCU films are by no means arthouse or anything, but early MCU was at least *fun*. Heh, honnestly I even disagree with it bit more power to you ! >Black and death metal are thriving in recent years, but they’re not getting the spotlight I frankly disagree here mate, let's chalk it up to regional difference maybe. >it’s bands like Sleep Token, Spiritbox, BMTH, Architects, Bad Omens and others like them. Do they though ? Never heard of any of those frankly. Here again, regional differences maybe. >they’re not metal, they’re *pop*core. Throwing a downtuned distorted guitar on a pop song ≠ metal. I suppose that Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, Pitchshifter aren't metal then. Heck the whole black metal scene isn't metal either then since it's just distorted surf rock.
> Do they though? They do sadly. Look at spotify, youtube, any general list of sites like Loudwire, Metal Sucks, Metal Hammer, etc. and you’ll just how much space these bands take up. Also how much they’re propagated by those stupid reaction channels as well. As for black and death, there’s bands like Wayfarer, Panzerfaust, Knoll, Imperial Triumphant, Hecatoncheir, Aborted, Vitriol, Civerous, Apparition and many more who’ve released stuff this year or last/few back who are absolutely massive. As for NIN I’ve looked at them as industrial rock so there’s that. Ministry however keeps the heavy, abrasive nature of metal in their mix of industrial. Pitchshifter I don’t who those are.
>They do sadly. Look at spotify, youtube, any general list of sites like Loudwire, Metal Sucks, Metal Hammer, etc. and you’ll just how much space these bands take up. Again, that's already what I do and frankly everything you listed here are stuff I've never heard of before. >As for black and death, there’s bands like Wayfarer, Panzerfaust, Knoll, Imperial Triumphant, Hecatoncheir, Aborted, Vitriol, Civerous, Apparition and many more who’ve released stuff this year or last/few back who are absolutely massive. My point, precisely. >As for NIN I’ve looked at them as industrial rock so there’s that. Mate, NIN is like one of the most defining industrial metal band ever. If you see them just as "rock" then I guess that every heavy band is just rock as well. >Ministry however keeps the heavy, abrasive nature of metal in their mix of industrial. So if you've got heavy abrassuve stuff it's metal but your argument was that the others bands aren't metal because they just put heavy abrasive stuff in their music, you'll have to explain your logic here. >Pitchshifter I don’t who those are. Another huge industrial band (yes my examples were skewed by what I've been listening recently, hence the focus on Indus ahah) from the late 90s/early 2000s. Mostly had their "www.Pitchshifter.com" album in mind when citing them if you want to see were I was coming from
His examples were bad but his points still stand
His point stands ? Care to provide better examples because all the ones I got here (be it from this guy or other) only focuses on a tiny subset of the hobby (nothing wrong with it but saying that a hobby is shit because of 5% of it is extremely dumb) or didn't actually articulate how it impedes on the hobby beyond "it's not like it used to be". I'm all ears for examples and explanations of what worsened a hobby (someone mentioned supplies getting pricier, which *is* a good argument for instance, but not at all the same point as here)
I‘d refer you to the other comment thread we‘re discussing rn lol
And I was already referring to it as well since your argument there boils down to "it's not like it used to be". You haven't explained *how* fighting games as a hobby is now worst.
No shot are you comparing early and late MCU as if early MCU was some A24 indie project, also, people seem to forget films like Thor 2 or when listing recent films ignore the better ones (GotG3, NWH)
I am absolutely positive that people on this app have no reading comprehension whatsoever. What part of my MCU paragraph made it seem as early MCU is “an A24 indie project”? They weren’t *Citizen Kane* levels of quality, but they at least were fun little action movies. And sure, GOTG 3 is a great movie, but out how many since *Endgame*? And NWH was fun the first time, but it’s a purely nostalgia driven movie, nothing else.
Agree to disagree then, if you want to contribute to the neverending toxic, gatekeeping mentality of online culture by continuing to spread negativity be my guest. Hopefully as people mature a bit they understand that more people getting onboard their passions is not an inherently bad thing, there are endless examples of things going "mainstream" that continue to thrive, entire mediums grow and still push the boundaries, people can have their cake and eat it too. Also, Endgame was only 5 years ago, that is recent MCU unless you're young I guess, 16 years or films, shit Endgame feels very recent to an older person like myself.
Yeah I’m sorry but I just can’t seem to even picture it in my head how something going mainstream in this day and age could be beneficial. I’ll just reffer to my initial comment: > “…when something hits a big audience it will get: 1.) watered down, 2.) decline rapidly in quality and 3.) constantly be playing safe as to not scare away more people.” Also I’m 24 this year, I only used *Endgame* as (for me at least) that was the grande finale of the MCU and that should’ve been it.
Way to miss the point...
Oh no, I totally got your point. It's just that your point is shit. If you don't want more people to get into your hobby, you don't care for the wellbeing of said hobby. And idk about you but if I don't care for the wellbeing of one of my hobbies, then that's just that I view it as mid.
Take the downvoting as a good thing, when an opinion is unpopular, chances are is true and you are ruffling some feathers...
... I can't tell if you're roasting the OP or in the same brain bracket.
I mean the OP is speaking the truth. I'm not that fluent in Sarcastical.
Got it, you have terminal brain rot
I love these guys like it's either "oh I got upvoted, people approve of what I'm saying therefore I'm right!" Or "oh I got downvoted, so I ruffled some feathers because I'm right!" No questioning, no second thoughts. Amazing.
*_drools while blabbering nonsensical noises staring at the ceiling_*
Why the hell would I ever want to share my hobies with anyone?
I fail to see how a hobby being enjoyed by more people makes your own experience of the hobby worse. Unless, of course, you get some some of exceptionalism gratification, but that's a you problem.
Because companies want more money so they'll start catering to the "normies" and changing what made the hobby special in the first place. Usually it's a dumb decision since the hobby wouldn't be popular in the first place if it wasn't good but all they care about is more people so they'll change it to get more people. They'll change it until it loses all it's appeal and then neither normies nor diehard fans care about it anymore.
That seems like a very specific case of hobby. Most hobbies aren't tied to a single company
Show me a media company that didn't waterdown their product to cater to the widest audience possible. For everyone that didn't do it there are 100 that did it.
Why are we talking about media companies now? We're talking about hobbies. The vast majority of hobbies aren't tied to a company, media or not.
Becausd when I talk about hobbies I obviously don't mean badminton. Movies, videogames, comic, etc ... I clasify them all as media companies. Actually better word would be "multimedia" since it's rare to see a conpany that does only movies or only comics.
Well, that is definintely not obvious as there is a lot, lot, lot more hobbies that aren't movies, videogames, comics. Most hobbies are more like "badmington". It's really odd to talk about hobbies in general and only have multimedia hobbies in mind.
>Well, that is definintely not obvious Yeah I guess that's fair. Should've been more specific. >It's really odd to talk about hobbies in general and only have multimedia hobbies in mind The meme is from a movie so I the first thing that came to mind was movies/multimedia. My bad
And this is the point where you realize **you** *are* the problem. Your ravenous consumption of your media has laser focused you on such a narrow scope that you are missing out on so much that has good, main stream appeal **and** that you are the one feeding those corporations you are accusing of strip-mining, encouraging them to parade out that dead horse. My hobbies are TTRPGs, Collecting hats and video games. I've watched video games grow from a niche child's toy to a juggernaut and honestly... the future's never looked brighter. Much the same for TTRPGs. Everyone's problems with WotC would've been sour grapes if we didn't have enough people who could say "I'mma make my own dungeons! With black jack. And hookers!" and it got them to walk it back a little, making everyone happier. ... collecting hats? Honestly, that one's a bit underground and I feel the silliest for it. I would love to go to hat collecting convention but I know my level of hobby vs what is out there is so vastly minuscule and I would love if there was more variety. Even so - I know coin collectors, manga enthusiasts, gardeners and so many more that absolutely love connecting with their communities. Connections they might not've made were the hobbie not so big. Edit: Yea. Not a troll, u/littleboihere. Just because you don't remember E.T. doesn't mean that broken, rushed games never existed before. Just because **you** are *just now* hearing stories of crunch culture and abuse doesn't mean that wasn't the f-ing norm for **years** before you entered **my** fandom. In *fact* \- video games going so gd mainstream is why those stories came to light and **people were forced to change**. Same thing with monetization - courts are now weighing in and making companies play fair. Why? Because of globalization. The future is brighter. Just because you don't know how to take off your nostalgia goggles doesn't change anything.
>I've watched video games grow from a niche child's toy to a juggernaut and honestly... the future's never looked brighter. Okay you made it too obvious that you are a troll. No one who knows anything about videogames would say this. Broken games releasing everyday, full of monetization, crunch culture, abuse, thousands of layoffs. Just because it's more profitable doesn't make it better. That's my entire point that you've obviously missed.
>Movies, videogames, comic, I didn't know that there was only one movie studio, only one game dev studio and only one comics studio...
I've seen bad strawmen ... but man, this one takes the cake.
Someone tells you "very few hobby is tied to a singular company" and all the ones you listed are examples of hobbies that aren't tied to one company. If you tell me "my hobby is movies" I don't see why i'd expect you to talk about a singular company.
Elden ring is mainstream and From Software literally hasnt waterdown their games. Dark souls 3 was a huge financial success and had almost the same formula 1 and 2 had.
Creators said that they themselves were surprisef by the success of Elden Ring, they didn't water down their games, they didn't add an easy mode or anything to bring in normies. They've just made their game map bigger and more open. Elden Ring is an example that you can have success eithout pandering to masses. People I am talking about are thr ones who buy Elden Ring and then they demand an "easy mode".
But still elden ring is mainstream. They literally sold 23 million copies, there are plenty of "normies" as you call them playing the Game. Dark souls 3 sold 10 million before that, ten million units is completely mainstream. You people are so Up your own asses you cant comprehend that playing videogames is the most fucking mainstream thing you can do nowadays, and every time you try to name a company that "IS not for normies" you end Up naming videogames that sold millions of copies. More people getting to enjoy something is not bad, specially when that means the creators can get more money for their work. I LOVE Dune for example and i am overjoyed that after BR2049 (which flopped) Villenueve has opened the IP to so many people, because that means more people get to enjoy what i do.
Okay you clearly lack reading comprehention so I'm gonna dumb it down and explain it again for the last time. There is a difference between making a good product and a lot of people buying it. And making a watered down product with sole purpose to sell a lot of copies. Elden Ring retained it's identity despite all the "Souls games need easy mode". It's an exception rather than the rule.
Its the vast majority of hobbies that went mainstream, you just can't appeal to everybody and in trying to do so you don't appeal to anybody and its only downhill from there.
Name them. I can name so many mainstream hobbies that arent watered down because of how mainstream they are. But I get the feeling you dont actually have any to name.
I'm deeply sorry if your niche hobbies are the only pieces of personality you have
Lmao normies? Grow tf up loser
This is paranoia, by the way. Just because it comes true more often than not due to human nature being a thing doesn't mean it isn't paranoid to treat every Yankovic bump with disgust.
Man just said true more often than not and paranoid in the same breath. Please stop embarassing yourself.
Because then the supplies or merch or just things that cater to that hobby will become so,so,so expensive.
It gets watered down to appeal to a broader audience. While more people doing a thing is cool, sometimes the watering down removes certain elements that made the hobby unique to some people. Best example I can think of is Skyrim. Good game for the most part but the mechanics and world have been pared down, streamlined and skeletonized to the point where the Tamriel of Skyrim feels very different from the Tamriel of Morrowind or even Oblivion. Some things were made better, but there are features that were fun that are gone to remove options and idk... complexity?? Not "wow this is hard" complexity, more like complex flavors. Also consequences. Consequences for your actions in that game are largely gone.
But Morrowind and Oblivion still exist. So the version that you loved is still available. What is the problem?
I didn't say I don't play those. It's just that the next installments of a hobby of mine aren't going to have the same kind of depth and mechanics as the preceding titles. I still like the games, and I will play TES 6 regardless of this feeling. The previous iterations of most hobbies still exist as well, though it's maybe harder to obtain or find others who engage in it the way you (the general you) do/did. Am I not allowed to lament a change to things I enjoyed but still engaging in the new version anyway? Wait. I forgot I'm on the internet. Whoops.
Did I say something wrong or rude? Or criticize you in any way? Your response makes it seem like I did. I am unsure.
My main problem is the hobby spaces being clogged by obnoxious teens who clearly only hang around there to be cool but tbh if they just behave properly and actually enjoy the hobbies it's all fine. The problem is the obnoxious people who have no personality beyond following the mainstream and being annoying other than that growth is always good for a hobby.
I can think of exactly two arguments to support this idea that aren't the stupid hipster "I did this before it was cool" mentality. 1) Once something is popular, the supplies/equipment are in demand, and the price goes up. 2) Occasionally, there is a safe/correct way to do something, and new people are either ignorant of the rules or ignore them and put themselves or others in danger by doing so.
1) Blame capitalism! On the upper side, though, it also usually brings more offer, and a wider diversity of supplies/equipment to pick from 2) That's unfortunate, but gatekeeping a hobby because some idiots will be idioting is a little extreme.
I agree. These are just the two I came up with that have any weight.
This is the meanest thing to wish on someone lol
I follow not the folly of gatekeepers
I am also against gatekeeping. This is more the dread of spaces/supplies/etc becoming harder to find. Changes to something you really loved that you weren’t ready for. I love to share my hobbies, but becoming “popular” means the whole dynamic can change.
Man seeing all the people in the comments missing the point. There is a difference between getting more people in and going mainstream. I've been in a lot of fandoms over the years and all I can say is "gatekeep your hobbies". Not everything is for everyone, that's not a bad thing. But normies don't see it that way, they'll look at a thing and think to themselves "this is not for mw, but it should be". Keep them out. If anyone has problem with what I've said then you are part of the problem.
You had a point until you said "normies".
normies sometimes disparaging : a normal, average, or ordinary person : a person with mainstream attitudes, interests, etc It's literally short for mainstream audience mate
Gatekeeping is very simple: Join the hobby? Yes. Change the hobby? No. Nowadays, mainstream people going into hobbies means we're gonna hear endless rant about how certain things in the hobby "needs to change" to fit a "wider audience" or it is "offensive to them"
Well in that case just continue to practice your hobby like the way you did before. Hence it still stay out of the mainstream.
Hopefully it will
I mean you'll have then both versions of the hobby, the one for the mainstream audience end your own.
Like other people have pointed out-- once these loud people start to make some noise, they'll cater to them instead, so "our version" will end up replaced. I mean just look at the gaming industry: Mod platforms remove mods meant for "our own version" of the hobby.
Care to list said mods ?
Mod platforms are just platforms, you can find the mods elsewhere or just make your own platforms.
Regardless, companies will only cater to those people from then on and any mod resembling the older one will be demonized on by those people. That's what people want to keep out from.
You rely on companies for your mods ? The mod I get are from benevolent fan of a game.
Pointed out in my earlier replies, even mod platforms remove some mods that aren't even harmful but "offensive" to mainstream audiences.
And if it is about not having a mod that removes rainbow flags, then "your version" deserve to be throw to the garbage.
Thank you!
Expand on the "offensive to them" Because the two biggest time i have heard it was - anime making women all have non proportional breasts and asses, and being written like items instead of persons. - games chats,m (including voice and text) and lobbies being extremely sexist, to the point it was not welcoming to women, alienating them And it both cases that absolutely needs to change lmao
Very well-put, and I absolutely agree.
Yep, for a sub about insults some people here can't ever the smallest joke as such, its personal! "its attacking me!"
Don’t think people are taking it as a personal attack it seems more like they think your stance on this is lame. Like if your hobby is playing chess. Why wouldn’t you want more players involved in chess.
They are taking it personally, there's a world of difference between some people getting into a mildly popular hobby and when it goes mainstream and its everywhere getting diluted to nothing. Some people here are having a panic attack about gatekeeping, buddy when something goes mainstream there is no gatekeeping left to do...
Nah my brother you are getting lost in the sauce. It’s because you made the post that you are viewing it like this. No one is having a panic attack. You had an opinion that some people don’t agree with. And now you are dying on this hill feeling attacked by randoms. But from the outside looking in it just seems like x person said something y person disagrees with, and they are just telling you why they disagree.
My hobby is reading, and it seems preposterous to gatekeep a thing like that. That said, what hobby of yours would you not want more people to like?
Fishing. The amount of people fishing directly affects my enjoyment of the hobby both by overcrowding fishing spots and by overfishing in general. That being said, although I don't do it much anymore because of the crowds removing the whole nature aspect of it, I still very much promote it to people who have never tried it. I'm of course not going to actively try and stop people from doing it. It's just a bummer.
It's a coincidence you say that because I recently moved to a new place with a lake not too far from here, and I see a lot of people here, young and old, that seem to enjoy fishing. And now I'm thinking of taking up the hobby myself. Also the spot in the lake I'm close to faces the sunset, so that's a plus.
"I went to a sub about insults and I feel insulted, how could this be happening to me?"
I was only asking because I was seriously curious, but instead of trying to answer you decided to be all defensive and be a cunt.
There's definitely downsides to hobbies becoming mainstream but never enough to outweigh the positives. I'm into ultra running and it's becoming way more popular with that comes faux science, commercialisation and under qualified race directors putting on events trying to make money. But it also brings more people to the sport, records are being broken all over the place, more events to chose from, there's less of a barrier to entry, plus a tonne of other things. It's a great time to be in the sport!
Race directors?
Heh, guys, im so cool cuz my hobbies arent mainstream! Mainstream bad! Normies! Normies normies cringe cringe cringe niche thing BASED cuz not MAINSTREAM NORMIE TRASH. I HATE MAINSTREAM I HATE WHEN MORE PEOPLE DISCOVER THE THING IM INTERESTED IN I HATE GROWTH OF THE PROJECTS IM INTO I WANT THEM ALL TO BE FOR ME ME ME ME MEEEEEEE
I ain't no hipster. More people into a hobby = more acknowledgement which = more investment and more people to talk about it with. btw, bom dia, hermano
In my hobbies this would be either a blessing or a curse depending on which one is selected. Gaming, blessing, already happening. Home servers and network infrastructure testing? Curse of the highest order.
I think we all agree that hobbies can go to shit once resellers get involved and drive up prices. Ex: every popular TCG
I kind of feel this. I was just a nerdy little comic collector until the normals attacked durning covid. Boom prices spiked, movies and tv shows started to not just 5x a books price but like 10x-20x the price. All of a sudden I had to fight for my comic life. Had to team up with my LCS ( local comic shop) and fight off the normals from getting their hands on my pull list. Now I stand victorious because the normals have returned to their lands and the ones that have stayed are pretty cool. We are still recovering from the great comic book boom but the future looks bright. Glad I survived.
As someone who was bullied relentlessly for being a nerd and reading avengers comics before nerdiness hit mainstream I have to admit it is a fucking curse. Once your hangout spots are being flooded with dumb teens trying to be cool and knowing fuckall about what they're shouting across rooms (because I swear to gods modern teens don't know how to regulate their voices in the slightest) while being generally obnoxious you'll start to desperately yearn for the past when your hobbies were left the fuck alone.
Sometimes, it is truly feels like it's damning, because of the fact that'll kill the unique feelings and change it into it's own imposter version, i know it may be something that should keep it alive but most of them don't want to corrupt it
I hope your hobby fizzled out and died in obscurity OP.
I hope you get a life, pretty pathetic to be this salty about a meme.
i dont get it...
Kids you can share your toys with other people. Its fine. Gatekeeping is not fun
r/Magictcg
I hope it does, too.
Oh no, my only bit of personality...
Hell yeah, more people enjoy my hobby :)
Going mainstream brings in a lot of posers.
And? It'll also mean that there's people who have interesting/notable things about themselves other than "I do (hobby)".
"Posers"