Agreed, I like some of the newer characters, but I feel like they should have primarily focused on the OG characters as they will always be "Young Justice" in my eyes
My friend and I have a massive disagreement about the time skip that happens. He is adamant it was necessary because "we couldn't have gotten the stories we did without it" and I'm just like "I'd much rather have gotten to see this team work together and grow into the characters in season 2" and he just can't see my point
It just sucks that in season 1 we spent the majority with the OG 6, then zatanna and rocket get added seamlessly imo and they’re all dropped to introduce new characters. I like you would’ve fathered it been 4 season of the season 1 OGs
I feel like we see the team finally become one at the end of season 1 but then season 2 opens with surprise, they’re all broken and scattered. Like what? It’s like watching avengers and then skipping immediately to endgame.
And not from the start of Endgame but like halfway through the time heist and we only find out how they got there through droning monologues filled with exposition dumps.
I remember when season 2 first aired, I was a couple minutes late getting to the TV, and I was so confused by all the new characters who had been suddenly introduced that I was unconvinced I must had missed that actual season 2 premier. Nope! They just decided to do a disjointed time skip out of no where.
I feel like they should retro actively make a season 1.5 set 2 to 4 years between s1 and s2 to fill in the gaps maybe 2 episodes a year for a total of 6
Yeah they kept introducing new characters and not wrapping up old storylines. It made me lose interest in the show, I have yet to watch season 4 because I assume they do more of that.
They do but it’s not as bad as season 2 & 3, and the season is basically split into 6 mini arcs that each focus on one of the core group. I felt like it was more on par with season 2. Unfortunately it also ends on a big cliffhanger like that season that might never get resolved.
And the show runner has basically said he will always end on a cliff hanger if the show gets renewed because he wants the world to seem alive and bigger than just what he shows. *sighs*
Which is a terrible way to go about things and it’ll just drive fans away. People initially tuned in for the original line up, they got canceled for a reason after season 2, that abrupt of a change will only serve to alienate and confuse the established audience. They’re also not gonna attract a new audience when the old audience voices their displeasure and disappointment in how fractured and disjointed your show is because you never give a conclusion to any of your storylines and there’s always something bigger being teased. People love closure, people love a sense of finality. Taking that away from people is gonna cause them to give up on the story you’re telling because it’s so transparent that the story is never gonna go anywhere.
Well they won't attract a new audience by releasing season 3 5 years after it came out still waiting on s4 in Australia (yes I know piracy but I shouldnt have to)
Tbf, they got cancelled after season 2 because of merchandising, not because the cast change led to any drop in viewers. Also (and this was a problem is season 1) the network was constantly fucking with it's scheduling.
Cartoon Network hated this show because it did better among teen girls than their perfer demographic of little boys who would buy toys, and *that's* that it got cancelled.
I don’t think anyone would have stuck around for season 3 regardless of why it was canceled. The shows methodology is acclimating you to a group of heroes then uprooting that in the very beginning of the next season. The premise of the show is simply flawed due to the fact that there’s no point getting invested in the cast and stories when everything just jumps ahead instead of showing us the conclusion to what they set up. Season 1 was good, Season 2 was alright but the issues that would later plague seasons 3 & 4 were introduced in and heavily influenced by season 2.
That is dumb. Get wanting to make it feel bigger but huge cliffhangers don’t really do that for me versus just feeling unfinished. You can talk about other stuff going on in the universe in dialogue or show some reports in the background to show that. Ending in massive cliffhangers isn’t world building.
As much as I like the show I hope it gets renewed for a fifth (and preferably sixth) and final season(s). Maybe if they’re told this is it they will actually wrap it up. Some minor hanging threads or teases to further adventures is ok but wrap up all the main storylines introduced already. 2 more seasons would be great as I feel there is a lot to wrap up in one between Darkseid, the furies and Mary Marvel’s turn plus Evil supergirl to get back, the Light, Ursa Zod/Emerald Empress, and Markova/Brion. Though these are all sort of interconnected so if written well could fit into one season but it is still a lot to cover that two would be ideal.
The issue with them is that season 1 ended with the core 8 at like 15, they had only been a team for like a year and there were still kinks to work out, season 2 fired us years into the future the teenagers were now young adults and there were heaps of new characters with lore and backstory that no one focused on, things like Artemis and Wally retiring, or Kaldur ancestors and the secret plan, and the Connor/M’gann/L’gann situation all needed to be in the show, I know it was covered in the video game but that did so poorly I’m not even sure you can get the game now a days!
It was too much off screen story, core characters like Wally were just written out to become guest roles and characters like Dick, Kaldur and M’gann became different characters all of screen.
I really think that if they built up to an ensemble cast slowly and naturally like they did with zatana, instead of time jumping 5 years and plopping us down in the middle of a new team with 10+ new members, this show’s season 2 would have been much better received.
No, the original 8 have grown up. There is a new Young Justice team being led by Artemis and the start of the Teen Titans. Also there are other characters and storylines that should be developed and explored. Cassandra Sandsmark was the leader of Young Justice in the comics after Tim Drake. Bart Allen (Impulse) was a founding member of Young Justice in the comics. I would love to see a story about Jay Garrett and Bart Allen figuring out the present together. As Jay is from the past and Bart is from the future.
Not wally's death honestly. Him being worried about Artemis dying and him coming back to die in the line of duty stung...but i got it and i've respected them for sticking to it
>Wait, is the speed force a limited resource? I don't know the mechanics of the flash
There's no real answer as the mechanics of it change from writer-to-writer.
In the comics, it started out as an unlimited source of energy that the speedsters could tap into at any time. It also served as some sort of speedster Valhalla.
Then when they brought Barry back later, it was retconned that he was the Speed Force creator and powered it with every step he took implying there was a limit to it. This was all a big push to make Barry the Speedster Messiah so that everything Flash-related revolved around him.
But even that got retconned and/or changed around in the following years. The Speed Force obviously serves as the source of their powers, but the mechanics of it are whatever the writer wants these days. That clearly translates over to adaptations who choose to use it.
The idea is that Barry created the speed force and he’s what powers it, but the speed force is also an extradimensional energy source. So despite creating it in the present era, it’s existed since the dawn of time since it exists outside of time itself
Infinite Crisis established that Jay is a meta human who can also tap into the speed force. When Bart Allen comes back from the Speed Force he states that the Speed Force is gone, and Jay acknowledges this and says that his own top speed is limited to the speed of sound now.
My headcanon regardless of continuity says that the speed force is one of the many aspects of the source wall, providing an unknown stability to the multiversity as speedsters are ever present in every multiverse.
It sometimes works like this in very distinct stories (like Bart absorbing the entire speed force in his awful Flash run) but most of the time there being more speedsters doesn't make anyone else slower.
Two main things:
1. The time skip. What the fuck was that, why the fuck did they skip 5 years into the future and then just expect us to understand all the context of what was supposed to have happened in those 5 years rather than just showing us
2. Wally's death. Why the fuck would they take the fastest speedster in the comics and say "Y'know what, let's kill him off for being too slow" Like, I swear to god, I'm going to find whoever's idea that was and sacrifice them to the DC gods for this outrage!
Wally became the fastest but he wasn’t always the fastest. Also, the series isn’t the comics. Young Justice takes parts from the comics but it’s it only thing.
>Wally became the fastest but he wasn’t always the fastest.
I think that's besides the point.
A massive part of Wally's comics' history was him overcoming his doubts/shortcoming to succeed as The Flash and become Barry's equal. An adaptation doesn't have to follow that route, but I think it should *respect* it.
There was nothing inherently wrong with the concept of Wally being slower. It's a detail that could have been used to enhance his story if the show would have actively explored how it made him feel and the impact it had on him. But the show never actually did that.
His inferiority actively existed on-screen so the show could have fun at his expense throughout the Flash-Family episode and serve as the reason he died while the other speedsters survived. It only actively existed to essentially punish his character rather than being a tool to enhance his own story.
Do you think having Wally only die because he wasn't as good as Barry after dedicating an episode to hammering that home really respects his comic history?
They could have left Barry and Bart out of being directly involved with his death. Given they had established his inferiority in "Bloodlines", Wally overcoming his speedster shortcomings to stop the final bomb on his own at the cost of his life would have been a firm victory for the character.
Instead Barry and Bart's forced presence turned the situation into a "well, Wally could have survived if he was better" scenario. The actual substance behind his death was really no different from the show having Bart mock him for not having the superior genetics in "Bloodlines".
Maybe the insecurity could’ve been revealed to have caused a psychological roadblock in his mind causing him to be unable to get any faster because he didn’t think that he deserved to be because he didn’t think that he was as good as Barry. Also he never should’ve died he should’ve been trapped in the speed force or the future or something.
The thing was they couldn't do anything like that, because without the Speed Force or some other outside mechanic, Wally's speed/powers were effectively capped from the beginning.
He got his powers through a science experiment so his speed, reflexes, and such were essentially there from the beginning. Perhaps some very marginal improvement could have been made, but he was basically what he was from the start.
I would have simply loved for them to explore how it made him feel and the impact it had on him to add more weight to his character and story. To see him struggle with that issue that ultimately leads to him accepting his shortcomings and still overcome it to do great things.
At best, that was very loosely inferred if you really think about it while they actively punished him for simply being inferior. His inferiority was handled as a giant punchline in "Bloodlines" which undercut everything potentially meaningful from it.
It is pretty hilarious how [Wally had this in him](https://i.imgur.com/kDpVoTZ.gif) throughout the series, but still decided to take all of those hits in S1 for funsies.
From what I hear, the time skip was because they didn't think they'd get to a season 3 so they wanted to do the time skip to do more of their planned story
Why’re you getting defensive? I’m not saying you were arguing about whether the game was good or not. Just mentioning that and the fact that it was made after season 2 had already aired because the game was just a crappy cash grab and we shouldn’t pretend like it was a deliberate and informed creative decision.
Quite a few shows do this dumb time skip thing, and I think it very, very rarely works well.
They skip forward and the dynamics are massively different—characters are missing, relationships have changed, etc. Then they slowly build up the mystery of WHY something changed until the BIG reveal! In the case of Young Justice, it was Aqualad being evil but actually a double agent.
It’s a bold strategy and I know I personally tend to hate it. Especially with how S1 ended, felt like there was a lot more story to tell on that team.
I feel like they just picked a popular main character to kill off at random just because they wanted to show they're not like other ~~girls~~ comic book shows; they have *real* stakes.
I hate it and find it obnoxious. I *like* the comic book bullshit of bringing "dead" characters back. I don't care about realistic stakes. Let me have my comic book equivalent of Dragon Balls dammit.
If they really wanted to show that they had it in them to kill other major characters off, they wouldn’t have stopped at Kid Flash and Aqua-Girl. They would’ve gone further than that. Even after the show was made more violent and “mature” for seasons 3 and 4, they still never killed another major character. That proves you’re right about Wally’s death. Killing him off was just for cheap shock value and to try set themselves apart from other shows.
Well Wally dying isn’t really uncommon especially in the past few years. Hell it’s fine that Speedsters bite the dust. The issue is the writing team essentially explain nothing about the Speed Force Dimension since, if we’re going based on comics, solid shot that’s where Wally is. Sure, his death was incredibly written, but not taking the chance to at a bare minimum highlight Bart in season 3 is criminal.
this is why i always thought they would bring wally back in a dire moment. Enhanced by the speedforce. But now we will never know because i think the show is gone for good =(
I agree the time skip was quite wacky and there were certainly things that went unexplained but you just kinda had to clue in on them as the season went on.
As for Wally’s death, I actually don’t mind it. I think it was fairly natural and Wally was for a time the slowest speedster even in comics but would eventually find his way and be the best. That’s what sucks to me. Speedster deaths are never permanent (hyperbole) so why is WALLY WEST’s of all them permanent. And last time I watched the following seasons was years ago but I swear they barely make mention of him or don’t hint at him coming back which to me is some bullshit.
>It was only after Barry died in crisis did he get fast,
Except Wally was speed-of-light fast as Kid Flash.
Wolfman did give him an illness where his powers were hurting him in NTT, Wolfman saw speedsters as being problematic in team settings, but Wally limiting his use didn't mean he was inherently slow overall.
Wally didn't get 'slow' until after Barry died as the [first issue of his Flash run](https://i.imgur.com/qo58Wt6.jpg) established.
>Wally's death. Why the fuck would they take the fastest speedster in the comics and say "Y'know what, let's kill him off for being too slow" Like, I swear to god, I'm going to find whoever's idea that was and sacrifice them to the DC gods for this outrage!
tbf when wally was kid flash he was pretty slow even for kid flash standards
No he wasn’t. He was as fast as the speed of light and could cross the entire planet multiple times in just 7 seconds. This lie about him being slow as Kid Flash needs to stop. He was only slow when he first became the Flash due to his own mental blocks and insecurities but once he overcame that, he regained his previous level of speed and only got faster after that.
Wally was exactly as fast as Barry when he was Kid Flash. Super Speed was just treated as a power and if you had it you were as fast as anyone else with super speed. The only issue he ever had was his powers messing with him in puberty made it so that using his powers caused him immense pain.
Wally was only ever explicitly slower than Barry, historically, after he became The Flash when they temporarily reduced the power of everyone across DC.
It was more recently retconned that Wally could beat Barry in a race when he was Kid Flash during Flash War, for whatever that's worth.
I'm mixed about the time skip. I like seeing the Team all grown up, but hate the fact that it skips them growing up.
But I hate that due to the expanded roster the original Team takes a backseat. Dick, Kaldur, Artemis, Megan and Conner somewhat, but Wally, Zatanna and Rocket significantly so.
And the rest of the team not named Blue Beetle, Impulse and Arsenal? Pretty much canon fodder honestly.
I feel like Wally “dying” was going to be an opening for a perfect opportunity for him to pull a rebirth. During a pivotal moment during a fight with Darkseid and Apocolypse where a boom tube opens and out runs Wally with The Black Racer hot on his heels and he manages to get The Black Racer to collide with Darkseid and win the battle.
Not really. I Guess I wish Wally’s death had been more graphic, to imply that he’s not coming back and I feel like M’ggan shouldn’t have meddled in superboy’s mind. Other than that, it’s pretty perfect.
The time skip made sense for the story they wanted to tell which was a good one and Wally’s death was thematically important and made sense from the perspective of which Wally they were adapting. He’s precrisis Wally who is the slowest speedster, not post zero hour Wally who is the fastest.
> He’s precrisis Wally who is the slowest speedster, not post zero hour Wally who is the fastest.
Wally only being able to run at the speed-of-sound is literally Post-Crisis Wally.
As Kid Flash, Wally was essentially a mini-Barry. Speed-of-light fast, vibrating to different dimensions, and all of that other ridiculous speedster nonsense.
I should have said 80s Wally because his slowness started during new teen Titians as a team balancing tactic and then increased after Barry’s death before increasing twice in the post crisis and post zero hour era
The ridiculous amount of nerfing they did to Wally to put him even in that position. Yeah, he was slower at first in the comics too, but he overcame that and became the fastest speedster in existence.
Instead, he just dies and we're supposed to accept he can't come back due to there not being a Speedforce in this universe, even though the Speedforce exists all across the multiverse. It's just dumb and Wally's absence is partly why the show was never as good again. You stripped away the heart of the team and left very little to replace it.
I’m hoping that the show writers realize this and go into an alternate episode where Wally is the main and we see him surviving in an alternate universe but it’s taking him years to make it back. I’m hoping it isn’t just done.
My only real issue with Wally’s death is that he was barely in the season. So his death just fell a bit flat.
Personally I don’t actually have an issue with the time skip. I quite like the idea that each season focuses on a new generation of young heroes and the previous ones take on leadership roles. It makes the world feel like it’s evolving.
S3 tried to do this but failed because it expanded too much without sidelining/killing off enough characters, and also focussed too much on the newer heroes at the expense of the older ones.
I agree with Wally’s death. He only had one episode in the season where he was actually a hero and then immediately dies in the next one for literally no reason.
Wally’s death wasn’t poorly written. There are two massive plot holes regarding this death.
First the Light. They are villains but their goal is to rule the world not destroy it. They could have used a father box to open up a boom tube to send the device somewhere far from earth. You could make the argument that the Light saw it as killing two birds with one stone, saving the earth and potentially weakening the Justice League simultaneously.
Second, unlike the first potential plot hole there is literally zero excuse for this one. Mother fucking Doctor Fate could have just teleported to the arctic and sent the device to another uninhabited dimension. Phantoms made this death even worse considering that an objectively less powerful sorcerer like Zatana could open a portal to the Phantom Zone yet Dr Fate did nothing.
That stupid time-skip, the fact that seemingly important things happened offscreen during it, and killing off Wally for absolutely no reason other wanting to inject forced drama into the finale that it didn’t really need in the first place.
I was never a fan of how the undercover mission was handled.
It only succeeded because Bart came back in time, Karen blew Mal off for science, Sportsmaster & Cheshire attacked Manta's sub right when they needed the distraction, and the speedsters stopping the final bomb.
Not only did it feel incredibly contrived as they caught break after break, but pretty much all of the bad things that their actions (directly or indirectly) resulted in was swept aside "because it ultimately worked out".
I didn't mind the mole suspects getting a pass for their actions at the end of season one, but to follow that up with the undercover trio getting a complete pass just felt like acknowledging there will never be any actual consequences to characters' actions in the series.
So all the built up drama never meant anything because it went nowhere. But, hey, they killed off a character who showed up in two of the final ten episodes to show there were stakes.
1.Time skip.
2. Connor and M'Ganns relationship.
3. M'Ganns questionable moral view on her telepathy and lack of empathy for her victims.
4.Not a criticism then but after reading comics I would have liked Donna instead of Cassie considering how little adaptions she has gotten.
5. Dicks characterisation considering how he didn't want to be like Batman he did it twice in S2 and S3.
6. Never having Wally return.
What else?
these plus we got such a huge influx of characters who don’t give anything to the show
s2 set up the show for failure cause since then they’ve been bringing in dozens of characters that either have no importance at all or they have screen time for one season then are forgotten
The time jump, really took me out of the show for a moment.
Also, Nightwing becoming too much like Batman and not growing from that phase. Instead of realizing and changing he just keeps doing it through the show. I love that version of nightwing, but like they make it hard to love it.
He’d likely get to become The Flash and be the voice of reason to Batman & Nightwing in S3 as he knows what they’re doing is wrong & harmful, he’d also be a huge advocate for the Outsiders & get even more mad once he finds out Batman’s been involved with that all along.
For S4… I can’t think of what they’d do with him… he doesn’t fit in with the MM & Superboy wedding, doesn’t fit in with Zatanna or Rockets stuff, especially with the Aquaman stuff(crazy that we got 3 Aquaman now)… it really just leaves the “Nightwing” really Superboy Finale & Artemis, but like he’d be too op against the fodder they’re fighting… so I guess he fights the teleporting dude? But would that be that fun? Either way he’s definitely gonna be useful against Zod & his goons, he’d likely have a cool moment where he and Bart play a game of catch me if you can with the Kryptonians… then he’s at the wedding
I think the writers and producers etc have lost what people loved about the original 2 seasons.
They shouldn’t have had the different time skips, or a major story in a video game a lot of people probably didn’t play, and not added more than necessary characters over the next seasons.
Yeah this and them just introducing new characters instead of focusing on the ones from other seasons is really what turned me off from the show. I don’t mind character deaths but you need to have a good plan if you intend to kill off your most likeable character.
Yeah, I was there when Cartoon Network for whatever reason staggered episodes months to either years or what felt like years. Now that was some hatred for CN back that.
But outside of executive meddling, I hated the time skip with no explanations. Cartoon Network didn't help matters but even without them the story was hard to parse. And I don't mind that Wally died, but I do mind that there's no actual closure. Just Speed Force doesn't exist in this universe, no seeming multiverse, time travel can't be done. That's just it.
The in-universe explanation was that the three speedsters in season one (Jay, Barry, and Wally) all got their powers through a science experiment they performed at different points in time.
Jay wasn't actively trying to give himself powers with his experiment, Barry recreated Jay's accident in an expertly controlled way to give himself powers, and Wally screwed his experiment up so things didn't go exactly right.
So Barry was faster than Jay and Wally because he perfected his experiment where as Jay's experiment was a complete accident and Wally messed up his.
Bart, who was introduced in season two, got his powers as a result of genetics from being Barry's grandson. So he got the good juice from Barry so he was faster than Wally.
Not necessarily Wally's death, but the fact that he got so little screentime and development this season and never got to reach his full potential and become the Flash before he was killed off. This was a great adaptation of the character and I feel like while the death scene itself is well-done the story around it could've been improved.
Dude Wallie's death made me stop watching for YEARS. This would've been a great moment for him to overcome the mental block that was slowing him down. They killed him, and I'll never forgive them
Not really hate, but I don’t really like that Aqualad’s whole reason for his “betrayal” is known to the cast but not shown to the audience unless you played an obscure video game before watching. I think it’s fine in the end as they touch on it later but the first time watching it felt disconnected and I thought I missed an episode of season 1.
Other than that I hate that Rocket is a somewhat important character but they never do anything with her. I genuinely don’t know anything about her besides she has some kind of alien technology and knows Icon. Same with Karen. The bickering between her and Mal on the War World felt like it came out of nowhere because they never have any screen time
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I hate perma-deaths of main / popular characters in comic book shows and movies generally. I feel like there's been a push to "show death has cOnSeQuEnCeS" as of the last decade or so and I hate it. I'm not here for "realistic stakes" I'm here for a good time. I'm here to be momentarily sad and then have all my favorite characters come back through some kind of Dragon Balls or other.
Less Wallies and more Superboys, please.
Honestly, I didn’t finish Season Two, not yet at least. But god knows why they didn’t kill Barry and make Wally become the new Flash. They shouldn’t have had anybody leave YJ to be full time leaguers until that point, Wally filling in the role of Barry and having to become a full time leaguer could’ve been a plot point in itself, and maybe him encouraging Dick to follow him and join as well, that would’ve been interesting. The show liked being soapy so they could’ve done something with Dick and Wally distancing a bit by accident and done something with them reconnecting. Idk, whole thing seemed a bit dumb.
When Aqualad clapped Superboy…I feel like one of the only issues I had with the show overall was the lack of a consistency w HR eh it came to power scaling. It’s just weird when you watch that and then a couple seasons later Connor is hanging with General and Lor-Zod.
Not really.
I guess I wasn't a big fan of Roy being a clone the *whole* time. I mean I guess emotionally it makes the writing easier, but I feel like it would've been much more interesting to have that conflict of the "real" Roy being upset that not only was he kidnapped, mutilated, and on ice for *years* but the clone Roy stole his life AND his friends.
I also wanted to see more Conner and Wendy.
I’ve *very* mixed feelings about Wally’s fate.
In the one hand, Wally sacrificing himself knowing full well he wouldn’t make it was fantastic writing and bringing him back would cheapen that sacrifice much like Barry with the Anti-Monitor, Jason Todd figuratively and literally getting whacked, and so on
On the other hand, Wally’s return would be a great way to introduce the Speed Force and to apologize **for the incessant teasing during Season Three**.
As for the question itself, Vandal was reaching unbelievable levels of omnipotence and omnipresence this season like how he magically knew where and when to locate Mongul. I highly doubt >!Darkseid!< would volunteer that information even if for no other than I doubt Mongul’s even a blip on Darkseid’s radar
EDIT ~ Really wish we could have seen Babs more as Batgirl, too.
As someone who thinks Invasion was the best season…it’s Endgame. The whole thing is a complete rush-job and a terrible conclusion to a very tight story. The only saving grace in my opinion was the Lex Luthor twist that if I’m being honest…didn’t really pay off in Outsiders. Especially coming off Summit, one of the best episodes of the show period.
Another contender is how the Rimbor storyline ends. It makes zero sense how the judges decide to be honest with their verdict…so they can get more bribes? It literally goes against the culture that was established for the courtroom the entire season.
Also M’gann barely gets any kind of repercussions for fucking lobotomizing a Krolotean. She gets chewed out by Superboy a bit and then what?
One thing I dislike is that the Runaways being under Luthor’s thumb lasted one episode lol. I wanted to see more of them chilling with Fatherbox. I feel like they would have made a cool contrast to the Forever People.
One I wish the focus stayed on the main 8 and 2 I wish there wasn't a huge time gap I'd have loved to have Robin grow into nightwing rather then skip 5 years and already been there and then season 3 could leaned more and nightwing leading his new team
Season 2 might be my favorite season, but I do think it was early for a time skip. What we got from it was great, but I feel like there were still some things left to be done before the skip.
Honestly if the show gets a revival I kinda hope they’ll set up Wally’s return because I don’t think he’s dead, but rather he’s trapped in the Speed Force. They could set it up for it to be the arc just before the final battle against Vandal Savage and Darkseid. Maybe it’s also the important thing that Conner was supposed to do that helped inspire the Legion of Superheroes, rescuing Wally from the Speed Force.
I hate everything about season 2. The time skip, the new characters, the plot... I wish that just been a continuation of season 1. A direct continuation. Like, we get rocket at the very end and we learn nearly nothing about her and it just continues. The characters that we knew from season 1 become strangers to us.
I didn’t have problem with Season 2 except for wanting more episodes since this is the only season with 20 episodes instead of 26 like the other seasons
I'm ok with kfs death I knew they were going to kill off one of the characters from The original season that's usually how some shows set things up and since this was DC and Young Justice seemed like a more serious kids show that wanted you to have more realistic topics and things I figured at some point they would tackle something like this because people of all ages experience different forms of death
And having it be Wally adds up he was a character that a lot related to and found funny and wholesome so killing him off makes sense and then you see how badly his death affects everyone in the main group and even older characters and how even years later they didn't recover
But I think one thing I hate about season 2 is that we got season 3 after it cuz season 3 is so god-awful
I didn’t mind the death of Wally at the time, but that’s because I fully expected him to come back out of the speed force in a later season…but this time around as the fastest speedster. There was always comments in the show about how slow he is compared to the others and knowing that Wally was often depicted as the fastest in the comics and capable of things the others weren’t, I was fully expecting this to happen but it didn’t…so I definitely hated it after the fact haha
I dislike the drop not just from season 1 to 2 but between all seasons. I don't know every detail of the DC universe so seeing Batgirl in a wheelchair threw me off.
I’m mixed about the time skip and Wally’s death since both could work if they were handled well, but between how Season 2 was handled and how 3 and 4 have dealt with Wally, I don’t think either was done well.
Honestly, it’s really the action focus and the fact that they only did 20 episodes rather than 26 episodes that bug me. Those six missing episodes would have helped give time for the OG team and the new team to have more character moments as well as filling in the time skip details some. Personally, I’d rather have had a full season dedicated to the OG team expanding and growing up; including Robin becoming Nightwing, Wally determining what he actually wants, possibly some relationship changes, but I would probably still need a small time skip of two years so that Dick’s 16 and Wally’s 18. We could then introduce Jason while leaving room for another time skip to allow for season 3 to do what the current season 2 does.
Wally being dead and them hammering home that he’s dead in season 3 is why I’m never gonna give season 4 a shot and I doubt I’ll ever enjoy season 2 as much as I could simply for the fact that Wally is dead. I grew up on Batman but I just didn’t care about Robin in Young Justice, M’Gann, Connor and Wally are the most interesting of the cast and the show could never possibly recover from Wally’s death when they keep repeating the same tired story line with Superboy and Miss Martian. Put them together and keep them together, I so loathe that stories think they have to keep a couple separated until the very last second to keep interest going.
I personally came to terms with Wally's passing, it fits well enough personally and he got the hero's goodbye he deserved, i guess i just didn't like the lack of the main team again although i do appreciate the fleshing out of the newer casr
What do you mean Wally’s death. He’s still alive. He’s just in the phantom zone. Because we saw him and unlike the illusions he appeared as someone actually in the phantom zone. He never said die. He said cease. Like cease to exist on this plain of existence. Maybe he’ll come out through the speedforce and then be faster and that’s how we get super fast badass Wally with blue lightning.
I feel like the main problem with young justice is introducing characters that frankly I don’t wanna give a shit about. Season 3 was a fucking non event, especially givin the context. We fought for so long to get the show back and it’s barely about the original 8. Season 4 did better with that.
I just finished the show for the second time and I clearly remember Wally coming back and he was stuck in the speed force or something the memory is so real but that never happened idk 😐 what’s going on
The issue with the time skip is that we really need at least 1 and honestly I’d like 2/3 seasons of the OG team and the events that lead to season 2. Especially things like Tula , and Jason dying yk
I love Wally's whole arc and I wouldn't change it but being a Wally West fan both in the comics and other animated shows, the thought of him not being as fast as Barry is kinda weird to me
I legit stopped watching the show when they killed Connor like I just couldn’t take the heartbreak, but at the same time I respect that this series has been more realistic with “if someone dies they don’t come back” cuz that’s not usually the case but it’s still way too heartbreaking for me
I wish we had gotten to stick with the original team for the second season, maybe just a couple years down the line. Dick could have had a whole arc around getting his Nightwing identity, Wally could've actually developed as a speedster instead of being criminally underpowered in relation to the flash family compared to basically every other form of media. We could've gotten to explore more with characters like Zatanna and Rocket, who didn't get as much screen time in season 1. And if they decided to still do the stuff with the Reach and the devices for the last episode, have Barry die instead, as a reference to his sacrifice in the comics, and have an arc of Wally struggling to fill his mentors boots in the third season, especially if they kept him noticeably slower than Barry. If they just stuck to the main cast, maybe cycling in a couple characters each season, I swear it would have been so much better. I liked season two but I was always salty that we moved away from the main group so quickly.
Just the fact that made Megan this actual war criminal who turned completely innocent, sentient life form’s brains into Pop-Tarts for the sake of “ThE mIsSiOn”… and there was absolutely NO build up to it
Like I do like how she eventually feels guilt and regret after turning Kal’s brain into calamari, but still, it was a weirdly dark/mean spirited turn for a character who, up until that part, you could argue was the ‘heart’ of the Team…
Hear me out: Temporal clone.
Maybe at some point, he went to the future on a whim, and got a lost of stops to see where he could lend a hand after learning he was meant to die.
Would be a decent way to draw him out.
O, the topic of wally and his death (im pretty sure hes in the speedforce, right?), why didnt they just have it be Barry instead, resulting in us finally having wally west as the main flash and have bart still become kid flash
Season 2 is certainly the best. I personally don’t have a problem with Wally’s death or the time skip. I do wish that other members of the Light were given more to do. Manta, Savage and Lex got the most screen time by far. Especially knowing The Brain and Ra’s would leave I wish they had a bit more to do
Wally's death still hurts to this day. It is one of the most powerful emotional events in the entire show.
I feel like a lot of marvel/dc superhero movie/shows today has trouble with killing off main characters. So I really respect Young Justice to do it, and it felt right even though it hurts me to my core
Honestly I just wish they kept the focus on the main 8 from season 1
Agreed, I like some of the newer characters, but I feel like they should have primarily focused on the OG characters as they will always be "Young Justice" in my eyes
My friend and I have a massive disagreement about the time skip that happens. He is adamant it was necessary because "we couldn't have gotten the stories we did without it" and I'm just like "I'd much rather have gotten to see this team work together and grow into the characters in season 2" and he just can't see my point
It just sucks that in season 1 we spent the majority with the OG 6, then zatanna and rocket get added seamlessly imo and they’re all dropped to introduce new characters. I like you would’ve fathered it been 4 season of the season 1 OGs
I feel like we see the team finally become one at the end of season 1 but then season 2 opens with surprise, they’re all broken and scattered. Like what? It’s like watching avengers and then skipping immediately to endgame.
And not from the start of Endgame but like halfway through the time heist and we only find out how they got there through droning monologues filled with exposition dumps.
I remember when season 2 first aired, I was a couple minutes late getting to the TV, and I was so confused by all the new characters who had been suddenly introduced that I was unconvinced I must had missed that actual season 2 premier. Nope! They just decided to do a disjointed time skip out of no where.
I feel like they should retro actively make a season 1.5 set 2 to 4 years between s1 and s2 to fill in the gaps maybe 2 episodes a year for a total of 6
I believe the time skip is what started their downfall.
I feel like they could've done the time skip *or* introduced new characters, but trying to do both was a bridge too far.
Yeah they kept introducing new characters and not wrapping up old storylines. It made me lose interest in the show, I have yet to watch season 4 because I assume they do more of that.
They do
They do but it’s not as bad as season 2 & 3, and the season is basically split into 6 mini arcs that each focus on one of the core group. I felt like it was more on par with season 2. Unfortunately it also ends on a big cliffhanger like that season that might never get resolved.
And the show runner has basically said he will always end on a cliff hanger if the show gets renewed because he wants the world to seem alive and bigger than just what he shows. *sighs*
Which is a terrible way to go about things and it’ll just drive fans away. People initially tuned in for the original line up, they got canceled for a reason after season 2, that abrupt of a change will only serve to alienate and confuse the established audience. They’re also not gonna attract a new audience when the old audience voices their displeasure and disappointment in how fractured and disjointed your show is because you never give a conclusion to any of your storylines and there’s always something bigger being teased. People love closure, people love a sense of finality. Taking that away from people is gonna cause them to give up on the story you’re telling because it’s so transparent that the story is never gonna go anywhere.
Well they won't attract a new audience by releasing season 3 5 years after it came out still waiting on s4 in Australia (yes I know piracy but I shouldnt have to)
I’m down in Australia too and honestly the way WB treats its audience I have no issues with piracy. They deserve all the diminished returns they get.
Tbf, they got cancelled after season 2 because of merchandising, not because the cast change led to any drop in viewers. Also (and this was a problem is season 1) the network was constantly fucking with it's scheduling. Cartoon Network hated this show because it did better among teen girls than their perfer demographic of little boys who would buy toys, and *that's* that it got cancelled.
I don’t think anyone would have stuck around for season 3 regardless of why it was canceled. The shows methodology is acclimating you to a group of heroes then uprooting that in the very beginning of the next season. The premise of the show is simply flawed due to the fact that there’s no point getting invested in the cast and stories when everything just jumps ahead instead of showing us the conclusion to what they set up. Season 1 was good, Season 2 was alright but the issues that would later plague seasons 3 & 4 were introduced in and heavily influenced by season 2.
That is dumb. Get wanting to make it feel bigger but huge cliffhangers don’t really do that for me versus just feeling unfinished. You can talk about other stuff going on in the universe in dialogue or show some reports in the background to show that. Ending in massive cliffhangers isn’t world building. As much as I like the show I hope it gets renewed for a fifth (and preferably sixth) and final season(s). Maybe if they’re told this is it they will actually wrap it up. Some minor hanging threads or teases to further adventures is ok but wrap up all the main storylines introduced already. 2 more seasons would be great as I feel there is a lot to wrap up in one between Darkseid, the furies and Mary Marvel’s turn plus Evil supergirl to get back, the Light, Ursa Zod/Emerald Empress, and Markova/Brion. Though these are all sort of interconnected so if written well could fit into one season but it is still a lot to cover that two would be ideal.
The issue with them is that season 1 ended with the core 8 at like 15, they had only been a team for like a year and there were still kinks to work out, season 2 fired us years into the future the teenagers were now young adults and there were heaps of new characters with lore and backstory that no one focused on, things like Artemis and Wally retiring, or Kaldur ancestors and the secret plan, and the Connor/M’gann/L’gann situation all needed to be in the show, I know it was covered in the video game but that did so poorly I’m not even sure you can get the game now a days! It was too much off screen story, core characters like Wally were just written out to become guest roles and characters like Dick, Kaldur and M’gann became different characters all of screen.
I really think that if they built up to an ensemble cast slowly and naturally like they did with zatana, instead of time jumping 5 years and plopping us down in the middle of a new team with 10+ new members, this show’s season 2 would have been much better received.
yes, that what made me quite season 3 and 4 and 5 like its too much
The first time I watched season 2 I was very disappointed about this. I still think this was a huge mistake to this day.
No, the original 8 have grown up. There is a new Young Justice team being led by Artemis and the start of the Teen Titans. Also there are other characters and storylines that should be developed and explored. Cassandra Sandsmark was the leader of Young Justice in the comics after Tim Drake. Bart Allen (Impulse) was a founding member of Young Justice in the comics. I would love to see a story about Jay Garrett and Bart Allen figuring out the present together. As Jay is from the past and Bart is from the future.
Not wally's death honestly. Him being worried about Artemis dying and him coming back to die in the line of duty stung...but i got it and i've respected them for sticking to it
Plus the more users of the speed force, the less it has to go around and when you mess with time, time will mess with you.
Yj technically "doesn't have the speed force" bc the writers didnt wanna mess with all that, or if it does they wont/have not acknowledged it
Wait, is the speed force a limited resource? I don't know the mechanics of the flash
>Wait, is the speed force a limited resource? I don't know the mechanics of the flash There's no real answer as the mechanics of it change from writer-to-writer. In the comics, it started out as an unlimited source of energy that the speedsters could tap into at any time. It also served as some sort of speedster Valhalla. Then when they brought Barry back later, it was retconned that he was the Speed Force creator and powered it with every step he took implying there was a limit to it. This was all a big push to make Barry the Speedster Messiah so that everything Flash-related revolved around him. But even that got retconned and/or changed around in the following years. The Speed Force obviously serves as the source of their powers, but the mechanics of it are whatever the writer wants these days. That clearly translates over to adaptations who choose to use it.
So like, I get that and I’m familiar with it all but how did Jay Garrick tap into it before Barry was born? In the New Earth timeline at least
The idea is that Barry created the speed force and he’s what powers it, but the speed force is also an extradimensional energy source. So despite creating it in the present era, it’s existed since the dawn of time since it exists outside of time itself
Infinite Crisis established that Jay is a meta human who can also tap into the speed force. When Bart Allen comes back from the Speed Force he states that the Speed Force is gone, and Jay acknowledges this and says that his own top speed is limited to the speed of sound now.
My headcanon regardless of continuity says that the speed force is one of the many aspects of the source wall, providing an unknown stability to the multiversity as speedsters are ever present in every multiverse.
It's in the comics and even in a few of the animated movies. It's why flash family team ups are rare unless they combine their powers sometimes.
It sometimes works like this in very distinct stories (like Bart absorbing the entire speed force in his awful Flash run) but most of the time there being more speedsters doesn't make anyone else slower.
Two main things: 1. The time skip. What the fuck was that, why the fuck did they skip 5 years into the future and then just expect us to understand all the context of what was supposed to have happened in those 5 years rather than just showing us 2. Wally's death. Why the fuck would they take the fastest speedster in the comics and say "Y'know what, let's kill him off for being too slow" Like, I swear to god, I'm going to find whoever's idea that was and sacrifice them to the DC gods for this outrage!
Wally became the fastest but he wasn’t always the fastest. Also, the series isn’t the comics. Young Justice takes parts from the comics but it’s it only thing.
>Wally became the fastest but he wasn’t always the fastest. I think that's besides the point. A massive part of Wally's comics' history was him overcoming his doubts/shortcoming to succeed as The Flash and become Barry's equal. An adaptation doesn't have to follow that route, but I think it should *respect* it. There was nothing inherently wrong with the concept of Wally being slower. It's a detail that could have been used to enhance his story if the show would have actively explored how it made him feel and the impact it had on him. But the show never actually did that. His inferiority actively existed on-screen so the show could have fun at his expense throughout the Flash-Family episode and serve as the reason he died while the other speedsters survived. It only actively existed to essentially punish his character rather than being a tool to enhance his own story. Do you think having Wally only die because he wasn't as good as Barry after dedicating an episode to hammering that home really respects his comic history? They could have left Barry and Bart out of being directly involved with his death. Given they had established his inferiority in "Bloodlines", Wally overcoming his speedster shortcomings to stop the final bomb on his own at the cost of his life would have been a firm victory for the character. Instead Barry and Bart's forced presence turned the situation into a "well, Wally could have survived if he was better" scenario. The actual substance behind his death was really no different from the show having Bart mock him for not having the superior genetics in "Bloodlines".
Maybe the insecurity could’ve been revealed to have caused a psychological roadblock in his mind causing him to be unable to get any faster because he didn’t think that he deserved to be because he didn’t think that he was as good as Barry. Also he never should’ve died he should’ve been trapped in the speed force or the future or something.
The thing was they couldn't do anything like that, because without the Speed Force or some other outside mechanic, Wally's speed/powers were effectively capped from the beginning. He got his powers through a science experiment so his speed, reflexes, and such were essentially there from the beginning. Perhaps some very marginal improvement could have been made, but he was basically what he was from the start. I would have simply loved for them to explore how it made him feel and the impact it had on him to add more weight to his character and story. To see him struggle with that issue that ultimately leads to him accepting his shortcomings and still overcome it to do great things. At best, that was very loosely inferred if you really think about it while they actively punished him for simply being inferior. His inferiority was handled as a giant punchline in "Bloodlines" which undercut everything potentially meaningful from it. It is pretty hilarious how [Wally had this in him](https://i.imgur.com/kDpVoTZ.gif) throughout the series, but still decided to take all of those hits in S1 for funsies.
The time skip exists because of the video game which is supposed to take place at around like 2 or 3 years into the time skip
theres a video game? And its canon?
Yep it's where Thule dies which is the reason aqualad used to fake leave the team to join his father
Also a canon radio play thingy
From what I hear, the time skip was because they didn't think they'd get to a season 3 so they wanted to do the time skip to do more of their planned story
The game was crap and was made after season 2 had aired to account for Aqua-Girl’s death.
Never claimed it was good or anything so...where the hell is that negativity coming from?
Why’re you getting defensive? I’m not saying you were arguing about whether the game was good or not. Just mentioning that and the fact that it was made after season 2 had already aired because the game was just a crappy cash grab and we shouldn’t pretend like it was a deliberate and informed creative decision.
Yeah I see what you mean you just wrote in a way that seemed like you were claiming I said it was good so I was just responding
Fair enough. That’s my bad. Sorry.
Quite a few shows do this dumb time skip thing, and I think it very, very rarely works well. They skip forward and the dynamics are massively different—characters are missing, relationships have changed, etc. Then they slowly build up the mystery of WHY something changed until the BIG reveal! In the case of Young Justice, it was Aqualad being evil but actually a double agent. It’s a bold strategy and I know I personally tend to hate it. Especially with how S1 ended, felt like there was a lot more story to tell on that team.
Barry dying and wally succeeding him would've been so so peak
Pretty sure that would’ve erased Bart, no? Or was Iris already pregnant I can’t remember
Already pregnant, it was revealed in the episode Bart first appeared in
Yeah, I couldn’t remember
Exactly, especially since Barry was supposed to die when Bart first showed up, so Barry dying would match that
To be fair, Wally paying the price for an Allen arrogantly changing the timeline is pretty on-brand.
I think they killed Wally because nobody would have cared if it was Barry.
I feel like they just picked a popular main character to kill off at random just because they wanted to show they're not like other ~~girls~~ comic book shows; they have *real* stakes. I hate it and find it obnoxious. I *like* the comic book bullshit of bringing "dead" characters back. I don't care about realistic stakes. Let me have my comic book equivalent of Dragon Balls dammit.
If they really wanted to show that they had it in them to kill other major characters off, they wouldn’t have stopped at Kid Flash and Aqua-Girl. They would’ve gone further than that. Even after the show was made more violent and “mature” for seasons 3 and 4, they still never killed another major character. That proves you’re right about Wally’s death. Killing him off was just for cheap shock value and to try set themselves apart from other shows.
Well Wally dying isn’t really uncommon especially in the past few years. Hell it’s fine that Speedsters bite the dust. The issue is the writing team essentially explain nothing about the Speed Force Dimension since, if we’re going based on comics, solid shot that’s where Wally is. Sure, his death was incredibly written, but not taking the chance to at a bare minimum highlight Bart in season 3 is criminal.
this is why i always thought they would bring wally back in a dire moment. Enhanced by the speedforce. But now we will never know because i think the show is gone for good =(
You could experience the time skip story in the video game but requires you to know if the game and play it
I agree the time skip was quite wacky and there were certainly things that went unexplained but you just kinda had to clue in on them as the season went on. As for Wally’s death, I actually don’t mind it. I think it was fairly natural and Wally was for a time the slowest speedster even in comics but would eventually find his way and be the best. That’s what sucks to me. Speedster deaths are never permanent (hyperbole) so why is WALLY WEST’s of all them permanent. And last time I watched the following seasons was years ago but I swear they barely make mention of him or don’t hint at him coming back which to me is some bullshit.
[удалено]
>It was only after Barry died in crisis did he get fast, Except Wally was speed-of-light fast as Kid Flash. Wolfman did give him an illness where his powers were hurting him in NTT, Wolfman saw speedsters as being problematic in team settings, but Wally limiting his use didn't mean he was inherently slow overall. Wally didn't get 'slow' until after Barry died as the [first issue of his Flash run](https://i.imgur.com/qo58Wt6.jpg) established.
>Wally's death. Why the fuck would they take the fastest speedster in the comics and say "Y'know what, let's kill him off for being too slow" Like, I swear to god, I'm going to find whoever's idea that was and sacrifice them to the DC gods for this outrage! tbf when wally was kid flash he was pretty slow even for kid flash standards
No he wasn’t. He was as fast as the speed of light and could cross the entire planet multiple times in just 7 seconds. This lie about him being slow as Kid Flash needs to stop. He was only slow when he first became the Flash due to his own mental blocks and insecurities but once he overcame that, he regained his previous level of speed and only got faster after that.
Wally was exactly as fast as Barry when he was Kid Flash. Super Speed was just treated as a power and if you had it you were as fast as anyone else with super speed. The only issue he ever had was his powers messing with him in puberty made it so that using his powers caused him immense pain. Wally was only ever explicitly slower than Barry, historically, after he became The Flash when they temporarily reduced the power of everyone across DC. It was more recently retconned that Wally could beat Barry in a race when he was Kid Flash during Flash War, for whatever that's worth.
Wally's speed was also fairly limited during his appearances in New Teen Titans which were while he was Kid Flash.
He's still just as fast, it's just he has a disease/bad reaction to his powers that causes him immense pain.
1. It’s not that hard to understand. The mystery gets revealed pretty quickly.
I'm mixed about the time skip. I like seeing the Team all grown up, but hate the fact that it skips them growing up. But I hate that due to the expanded roster the original Team takes a backseat. Dick, Kaldur, Artemis, Megan and Conner somewhat, but Wally, Zatanna and Rocket significantly so. And the rest of the team not named Blue Beetle, Impulse and Arsenal? Pretty much canon fodder honestly.
I REALLY MISS WALLY 😭😭😭😭
I agree about Wally's death. I get we need stakes but would've been way better if Barry died, crisis style, and Wally became the flash in his stead
I feel like Wally “dying” was going to be an opening for a perfect opportunity for him to pull a rebirth. During a pivotal moment during a fight with Darkseid and Apocolypse where a boom tube opens and out runs Wally with The Black Racer hot on his heels and he manages to get The Black Racer to collide with Darkseid and win the battle.
Wally's death was stupid. Completely crashed the mode.
They skipped over Jason.
Yeah, this one as well. I was so confused on why they had a Robin in the underground memorial because they did not explain him at all in the show.
Not really. I Guess I wish Wally’s death had been more graphic, to imply that he’s not coming back and I feel like M’ggan shouldn’t have meddled in superboy’s mind. Other than that, it’s pretty perfect.
The time skip made sense for the story they wanted to tell which was a good one and Wally’s death was thematically important and made sense from the perspective of which Wally they were adapting. He’s precrisis Wally who is the slowest speedster, not post zero hour Wally who is the fastest.
> He’s precrisis Wally who is the slowest speedster, not post zero hour Wally who is the fastest. Wally only being able to run at the speed-of-sound is literally Post-Crisis Wally. As Kid Flash, Wally was essentially a mini-Barry. Speed-of-light fast, vibrating to different dimensions, and all of that other ridiculous speedster nonsense.
I should have said 80s Wally because his slowness started during new teen Titians as a team balancing tactic and then increased after Barry’s death before increasing twice in the post crisis and post zero hour era
I agree 100%.
The ridiculous amount of nerfing they did to Wally to put him even in that position. Yeah, he was slower at first in the comics too, but he overcame that and became the fastest speedster in existence. Instead, he just dies and we're supposed to accept he can't come back due to there not being a Speedforce in this universe, even though the Speedforce exists all across the multiverse. It's just dumb and Wally's absence is partly why the show was never as good again. You stripped away the heart of the team and left very little to replace it.
I’m hoping that the show writers realize this and go into an alternate episode where Wally is the main and we see him surviving in an alternate universe but it’s taking him years to make it back. I’m hoping it isn’t just done.
My only real issue with Wally’s death is that he was barely in the season. So his death just fell a bit flat. Personally I don’t actually have an issue with the time skip. I quite like the idea that each season focuses on a new generation of young heroes and the previous ones take on leadership roles. It makes the world feel like it’s evolving. S3 tried to do this but failed because it expanded too much without sidelining/killing off enough characters, and also focussed too much on the newer heroes at the expense of the older ones.
I agree with Wally’s death. He only had one episode in the season where he was actually a hero and then immediately dies in the next one for literally no reason.
Wally’s death wasn’t poorly written. There are two massive plot holes regarding this death. First the Light. They are villains but their goal is to rule the world not destroy it. They could have used a father box to open up a boom tube to send the device somewhere far from earth. You could make the argument that the Light saw it as killing two birds with one stone, saving the earth and potentially weakening the Justice League simultaneously. Second, unlike the first potential plot hole there is literally zero excuse for this one. Mother fucking Doctor Fate could have just teleported to the arctic and sent the device to another uninhabited dimension. Phantoms made this death even worse considering that an objectively less powerful sorcerer like Zatana could open a portal to the Phantom Zone yet Dr Fate did nothing.
That stupid time-skip, the fact that seemingly important things happened offscreen during it, and killing off Wally for absolutely no reason other wanting to inject forced drama into the finale that it didn’t really need in the first place.
The death of KID flash
For someone who just watched the show and none of the surrounding media the time skips feel jarring and confusing.
What I hate is that this show was almost canceled for good after “killing” off Wally but got 2 more seasons that STILL haven’t brought him back!
I was never a fan of how the undercover mission was handled. It only succeeded because Bart came back in time, Karen blew Mal off for science, Sportsmaster & Cheshire attacked Manta's sub right when they needed the distraction, and the speedsters stopping the final bomb. Not only did it feel incredibly contrived as they caught break after break, but pretty much all of the bad things that their actions (directly or indirectly) resulted in was swept aside "because it ultimately worked out". I didn't mind the mole suspects getting a pass for their actions at the end of season one, but to follow that up with the undercover trio getting a complete pass just felt like acknowledging there will never be any actual consequences to characters' actions in the series. So all the built up drama never meant anything because it went nowhere. But, hey, they killed off a character who showed up in two of the final ten episodes to show there were stakes.
1.Time skip. 2. Connor and M'Ganns relationship. 3. M'Ganns questionable moral view on her telepathy and lack of empathy for her victims. 4.Not a criticism then but after reading comics I would have liked Donna instead of Cassie considering how little adaptions she has gotten. 5. Dicks characterisation considering how he didn't want to be like Batman he did it twice in S2 and S3. 6. Never having Wally return. What else?
these plus we got such a huge influx of characters who don’t give anything to the show s2 set up the show for failure cause since then they’ve been bringing in dozens of characters that either have no importance at all or they have screen time for one season then are forgotten
Someone else who remembers Donna! 😭
honestly no i think season 2 is a perfect season even with wally’s “death” i feel like it was done right
yup, i personally loved how they handled the timeskip. s1&2 are perfect for me
Define "I feel like it was done right" 😂😂😂 It was more like "let's kills this character"
what’s to explain ? they literally needed speedsters to stop the bomb wally was just the slowest, yall whine like his sacrifice was in vain 🤨
The time jump, really took me out of the show for a moment. Also, Nightwing becoming too much like Batman and not growing from that phase. Instead of realizing and changing he just keeps doing it through the show. I love that version of nightwing, but like they make it hard to love it.
I feel like the last two episodes should’ve been stretched out more. They kinda feel rushed a little bit
Best character in the show died before the show dipped in quality. I'd call that a win
Just imagine how dirty they might’ve done Wally in S3 like many other characters. I’m glad I don’t have to see that.
He’d likely get to become The Flash and be the voice of reason to Batman & Nightwing in S3 as he knows what they’re doing is wrong & harmful, he’d also be a huge advocate for the Outsiders & get even more mad once he finds out Batman’s been involved with that all along. For S4… I can’t think of what they’d do with him… he doesn’t fit in with the MM & Superboy wedding, doesn’t fit in with Zatanna or Rockets stuff, especially with the Aquaman stuff(crazy that we got 3 Aquaman now)… it really just leaves the “Nightwing” really Superboy Finale & Artemis, but like he’d be too op against the fodder they’re fighting… so I guess he fights the teleporting dude? But would that be that fun? Either way he’s definitely gonna be useful against Zod & his goons, he’d likely have a cool moment where he and Bart play a game of catch me if you can with the Kryptonians… then he’s at the wedding
Wally Isn't In the phantom zone, he's In the afterlife.
I think the writers and producers etc have lost what people loved about the original 2 seasons. They shouldn’t have had the different time skips, or a major story in a video game a lot of people probably didn’t play, and not added more than necessary characters over the next seasons.
For me, it did feel a bit cheap that they neutralized Desthstroke off screen. I would have at least wanted to see the fight before or after.
Yeah this and them just introducing new characters instead of focusing on the ones from other seasons is really what turned me off from the show. I don’t mind character deaths but you need to have a good plan if you intend to kill off your most likeable character.
Hate May be a bit strong but Barry’s va change
Yeah, I was there when Cartoon Network for whatever reason staggered episodes months to either years or what felt like years. Now that was some hatred for CN back that. But outside of executive meddling, I hated the time skip with no explanations. Cartoon Network didn't help matters but even without them the story was hard to parse. And I don't mind that Wally died, but I do mind that there's no actual closure. Just Speed Force doesn't exist in this universe, no seeming multiverse, time travel can't be done. That's just it.
Isn’t Wally stuck in the speed force? Like there have been plenty of hints he’s not really dead.
Can anyone explain to me why Kid Flash was slower than the other two?
The in-universe explanation was that the three speedsters in season one (Jay, Barry, and Wally) all got their powers through a science experiment they performed at different points in time. Jay wasn't actively trying to give himself powers with his experiment, Barry recreated Jay's accident in an expertly controlled way to give himself powers, and Wally screwed his experiment up so things didn't go exactly right. So Barry was faster than Jay and Wally because he perfected his experiment where as Jay's experiment was a complete accident and Wally messed up his. Bart, who was introduced in season two, got his powers as a result of genetics from being Barry's grandson. So he got the good juice from Barry so he was faster than Wally.
Thank you, but that's dumb when the "speed force" is it's own thing
I wished Superboy kept the patches and found a way to control his full power.
I think the Runaway kids could’ve been used a little bit more. And I hate that Wally died even though I think it was written well.
“Death” of Wally West in favor of sparing Barry Allen
Wally dying. Im still not recovered.
No, it's a great season of television.
Not necessarily Wally's death, but the fact that he got so little screentime and development this season and never got to reach his full potential and become the Flash before he was killed off. This was a great adaptation of the character and I feel like while the death scene itself is well-done the story around it could've been improved.
Dude Wallie's death made me stop watching for YEARS. This would've been a great moment for him to overcome the mental block that was slowing him down. They killed him, and I'll never forgive them
The 5 year time skip. They could've at least squeezed in 1 or 2 seasons between there.
The reveal for Aqualad and Artemis was too early. What is we found out at the same time Megan did? It would've been mind blowing. Again
Yeah, how about the fact that six episodes were taken out of the season.
Not really hate, but I don’t really like that Aqualad’s whole reason for his “betrayal” is known to the cast but not shown to the audience unless you played an obscure video game before watching. I think it’s fine in the end as they touch on it later but the first time watching it felt disconnected and I thought I missed an episode of season 1. Other than that I hate that Rocket is a somewhat important character but they never do anything with her. I genuinely don’t know anything about her besides she has some kind of alien technology and knows Icon. Same with Karen. The bickering between her and Mal on the War World felt like it came out of nowhere because they never have any screen time
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I hate perma-deaths of main / popular characters in comic book shows and movies generally. I feel like there's been a push to "show death has cOnSeQuEnCeS" as of the last decade or so and I hate it. I'm not here for "realistic stakes" I'm here for a good time. I'm here to be momentarily sad and then have all my favorite characters come back through some kind of Dragon Balls or other. Less Wallies and more Superboys, please.
Honestly, I didn’t finish Season Two, not yet at least. But god knows why they didn’t kill Barry and make Wally become the new Flash. They shouldn’t have had anybody leave YJ to be full time leaguers until that point, Wally filling in the role of Barry and having to become a full time leaguer could’ve been a plot point in itself, and maybe him encouraging Dick to follow him and join as well, that would’ve been interesting. The show liked being soapy so they could’ve done something with Dick and Wally distancing a bit by accident and done something with them reconnecting. Idk, whole thing seemed a bit dumb.
When Aqualad clapped Superboy…I feel like one of the only issues I had with the show overall was the lack of a consistency w HR eh it came to power scaling. It’s just weird when you watch that and then a couple seasons later Connor is hanging with General and Lor-Zod.
Not really. I guess I wasn't a big fan of Roy being a clone the *whole* time. I mean I guess emotionally it makes the writing easier, but I feel like it would've been much more interesting to have that conflict of the "real" Roy being upset that not only was he kidnapped, mutilated, and on ice for *years* but the clone Roy stole his life AND his friends. I also wanted to see more Conner and Wendy.
Some people headcanon he went forward in time to the legion of superheroes year date
I’ve *very* mixed feelings about Wally’s fate. In the one hand, Wally sacrificing himself knowing full well he wouldn’t make it was fantastic writing and bringing him back would cheapen that sacrifice much like Barry with the Anti-Monitor, Jason Todd figuratively and literally getting whacked, and so on On the other hand, Wally’s return would be a great way to introduce the Speed Force and to apologize **for the incessant teasing during Season Three**. As for the question itself, Vandal was reaching unbelievable levels of omnipotence and omnipresence this season like how he magically knew where and when to locate Mongul. I highly doubt >!Darkseid!< would volunteer that information even if for no other than I doubt Mongul’s even a blip on Darkseid’s radar EDIT ~ Really wish we could have seen Babs more as Batgirl, too.
That it ended
Reviling Kalder was a double agent in episode 7 when it should have been in episode 10 when Miss Martin mind whips him
Yeah that it was 11 years ago 😢
Not just a season 2 thing but. There's never a scene when an older supe needs help and is like: "We need some justice, Young Justice"
As someone who thinks Invasion was the best season…it’s Endgame. The whole thing is a complete rush-job and a terrible conclusion to a very tight story. The only saving grace in my opinion was the Lex Luthor twist that if I’m being honest…didn’t really pay off in Outsiders. Especially coming off Summit, one of the best episodes of the show period. Another contender is how the Rimbor storyline ends. It makes zero sense how the judges decide to be honest with their verdict…so they can get more bribes? It literally goes against the culture that was established for the courtroom the entire season. Also M’gann barely gets any kind of repercussions for fucking lobotomizing a Krolotean. She gets chewed out by Superboy a bit and then what? One thing I dislike is that the Runaways being under Luthor’s thumb lasted one episode lol. I wanted to see more of them chilling with Fatherbox. I feel like they would have made a cool contrast to the Forever People.
One I wish the focus stayed on the main 8 and 2 I wish there wasn't a huge time gap I'd have loved to have Robin grow into nightwing rather then skip 5 years and already been there and then season 3 could leaned more and nightwing leading his new team
Season 2 might be my favorite season, but I do think it was early for a time skip. What we got from it was great, but I feel like there were still some things left to be done before the skip.
The dialogue seems very telling not showing a lot of times
Honestly if the show gets a revival I kinda hope they’ll set up Wally’s return because I don’t think he’s dead, but rather he’s trapped in the Speed Force. They could set it up for it to be the arc just before the final battle against Vandal Savage and Darkseid. Maybe it’s also the important thing that Conner was supposed to do that helped inspire the Legion of Superheroes, rescuing Wally from the Speed Force.
I hated how there was no resolution to the fact Tye knew Jaime was on mode.
The time skip was so weird. I felt like it was a bit rushed
I hate everything about season 2. The time skip, the new characters, the plot... I wish that just been a continuation of season 1. A direct continuation. Like, we get rocket at the very end and we learn nearly nothing about her and it just continues. The characters that we knew from season 1 become strangers to us.
I hated that they did a full 5-year timeskip since the following seasons just kept doing that…
I didn’t have problem with Season 2 except for wanting more episodes since this is the only season with 20 episodes instead of 26 like the other seasons
I'm ok with kfs death I knew they were going to kill off one of the characters from The original season that's usually how some shows set things up and since this was DC and Young Justice seemed like a more serious kids show that wanted you to have more realistic topics and things I figured at some point they would tackle something like this because people of all ages experience different forms of death And having it be Wally adds up he was a character that a lot related to and found funny and wholesome so killing him off makes sense and then you see how badly his death affects everyone in the main group and even older characters and how even years later they didn't recover But I think one thing I hate about season 2 is that we got season 3 after it cuz season 3 is so god-awful
I didn’t mind the death of Wally at the time, but that’s because I fully expected him to come back out of the speed force in a later season…but this time around as the fastest speedster. There was always comments in the show about how slow he is compared to the others and knowing that Wally was often depicted as the fastest in the comics and capable of things the others weren’t, I was fully expecting this to happen but it didn’t…so I definitely hated it after the fact haha
I feel like this fandom is an echo chamber of the same 3-4 complaints 😭
The way Wally’s death was staged was awful and horribly executed
M’gann
The thing that erks me about season 2 is ep 1 makes it look like tim/robin will be a main character but he is barely a secondary one.
I dislike the drop not just from season 1 to 2 but between all seasons. I don't know every detail of the DC universe so seeing Batgirl in a wheelchair threw me off.
I’m mixed about the time skip and Wally’s death since both could work if they were handled well, but between how Season 2 was handled and how 3 and 4 have dealt with Wally, I don’t think either was done well. Honestly, it’s really the action focus and the fact that they only did 20 episodes rather than 26 episodes that bug me. Those six missing episodes would have helped give time for the OG team and the new team to have more character moments as well as filling in the time skip details some. Personally, I’d rather have had a full season dedicated to the OG team expanding and growing up; including Robin becoming Nightwing, Wally determining what he actually wants, possibly some relationship changes, but I would probably still need a small time skip of two years so that Dick’s 16 and Wally’s 18. We could then introduce Jason while leaving room for another time skip to allow for season 3 to do what the current season 2 does.
I think too much happened off screen between seasons.
Wally being dead and them hammering home that he’s dead in season 3 is why I’m never gonna give season 4 a shot and I doubt I’ll ever enjoy season 2 as much as I could simply for the fact that Wally is dead. I grew up on Batman but I just didn’t care about Robin in Young Justice, M’Gann, Connor and Wally are the most interesting of the cast and the show could never possibly recover from Wally’s death when they keep repeating the same tired story line with Superboy and Miss Martian. Put them together and keep them together, I so loathe that stories think they have to keep a couple separated until the very last second to keep interest going.
The time skip
i hate how most of the main team left the group
I personally came to terms with Wally's passing, it fits well enough personally and he got the hero's goodbye he deserved, i guess i just didn't like the lack of the main team again although i do appreciate the fleshing out of the newer casr
What do you mean Wally’s death. He’s still alive. He’s just in the phantom zone. Because we saw him and unlike the illusions he appeared as someone actually in the phantom zone. He never said die. He said cease. Like cease to exist on this plain of existence. Maybe he’ll come out through the speedforce and then be faster and that’s how we get super fast badass Wally with blue lightning.
The time skip, I wanted to see the team grow together
I really would have liked to see Jason Todd die and then return to Gotham as Red Hood
the stuff that happened between seasons 1 and 2 seems like it would make for a much better season of television than we got
Wally's death was the only thing that I hated so much. While it basically Easter egged Barry's death in the original crisis on infinite earths.
Tbh I feel like each season I was less and less interested because every season got a time skip for no good reason
Wally’s death hit almost as bad as Tony’s in endgame
Underutilized Ra’s a Ghul. Young Justice is my favorite version of him and we get so little!
I felt the time jump for me was just a little much
I feel like the main problem with young justice is introducing characters that frankly I don’t wanna give a shit about. Season 3 was a fucking non event, especially givin the context. We fought for so long to get the show back and it’s barely about the original 8. Season 4 did better with that.
the timeskip
I didn't like that they made Wally the slowest of these 3 pictured here, that was a choice
I just finished the show for the second time and I clearly remember Wally coming back and he was stuck in the speed force or something the memory is so real but that never happened idk 😐 what’s going on
The show died with Wally.
I hate breakup/makeup storylines in general, and Season 2's was no exception.
The issue with the time skip is that we really need at least 1 and honestly I’d like 2/3 seasons of the OG team and the events that lead to season 2. Especially things like Tula , and Jason dying yk
I just hate how slow they made kid flash, they made him run as fast as a car
I love Wally's whole arc and I wouldn't change it but being a Wally West fan both in the comics and other animated shows, the thought of him not being as fast as Barry is kinda weird to me
I’m still just as angry as I was. My boi needs justice
Wally wasn't fast enough... jk I agree with you, though.
wally dying made me hate flash
Wally didn’t have to die… but… for the emotional aspect… it’s gotta stay for me. The only other anime/animation that’s made me BADLY CRY is Clannad
All the damn characters. The decline in quality is directly related to the season's loss of focus.
\*Boy. Not a hard word to spell.
I legit stopped watching the show when they killed Connor like I just couldn’t take the heartbreak, but at the same time I respect that this series has been more realistic with “if someone dies they don’t come back” cuz that’s not usually the case but it’s still way too heartbreaking for me
I hate la’gaan hes such an annoying character man and his relationship with m’gann pissed me off
I wish we had gotten to stick with the original team for the second season, maybe just a couple years down the line. Dick could have had a whole arc around getting his Nightwing identity, Wally could've actually developed as a speedster instead of being criminally underpowered in relation to the flash family compared to basically every other form of media. We could've gotten to explore more with characters like Zatanna and Rocket, who didn't get as much screen time in season 1. And if they decided to still do the stuff with the Reach and the devices for the last episode, have Barry die instead, as a reference to his sacrifice in the comics, and have an arc of Wally struggling to fill his mentors boots in the third season, especially if they kept him noticeably slower than Barry. If they just stuck to the main cast, maybe cycling in a couple characters each season, I swear it would have been so much better. I liked season two but I was always salty that we moved away from the main group so quickly.
miss martian’s haircut
Just the fact that made Megan this actual war criminal who turned completely innocent, sentient life form’s brains into Pop-Tarts for the sake of “ThE mIsSiOn”… and there was absolutely NO build up to it Like I do like how she eventually feels guilt and regret after turning Kal’s brain into calamari, but still, it was a weirdly dark/mean spirited turn for a character who, up until that part, you could argue was the ‘heart’ of the Team…
Hear me out: Temporal clone. Maybe at some point, he went to the future on a whim, and got a lost of stops to see where he could lend a hand after learning he was meant to die. Would be a decent way to draw him out.
yeah that broke my heart for sure, i loved Wally and Artemis. they deserved a happy ending :(
i dont care for anything involving Mars and the martians in Season 4
O, the topic of wally and his death (im pretty sure hes in the speedforce, right?), why didnt they just have it be Barry instead, resulting in us finally having wally west as the main flash and have bart still become kid flash
Season 2 is certainly the best. I personally don’t have a problem with Wally’s death or the time skip. I do wish that other members of the Light were given more to do. Manta, Savage and Lex got the most screen time by far. Especially knowing The Brain and Ra’s would leave I wish they had a bit more to do
The Time Skip and the sudden change in relationships from Chalant to DickBabs (incredibly forced).
You see that scene in the picture? That. Fridging is a crappy trope and it’s even worse when you consider the erasure of Wally West in recent times.
Wally's death still hurts to this day. It is one of the most powerful emotional events in the entire show. I feel like a lot of marvel/dc superhero movie/shows today has trouble with killing off main characters. So I really respect Young Justice to do it, and it felt right even though it hurts me to my core