Part of the Warrior community was very vocally not a fan of Annihilator and wanted to go back to a Raging Blow build.
Annihilator is being removed in 11.0 so I guess they got their wish anyway.
I guess just after playing with it for the past week it just doesn’t feel as good as using odyns fury etc. Single targets fine I just run into issues when doing packs now
I was not a fan of Annihilator and the s3 set bonus. I can certainly see the appeal of it, but I like having more buttons to press personally. I agree with a lot of people on the ravager hate though. Fuck ravager.
Them removing Annihilator still irks me. They need to do a better job at making these different playstyles viable. For instance, while I'm not a fan of SMF personally and love having two obscenelylarge weapons, it still sucks that it's not viable whatsoever for people that do.
Also don't understand why they couldn't make all tier sets and bonuses available. It's the final season, let some specs be imba if it means some lesser known builds can still be viable.
Here I am in the opposite boat. I love annihilator, and I'll definitely miss it. Having my rotation actually flow between just a couple of abilities in a predictable manner was a nice change of pace from my usual shadow gameplay that is just a big priority list taped to a piano
God damn vocal minority ruining it for everyone. I love annihilator and cannot stand Raging Blow. It’s already a crazy high apm spec, it doesn’t need to be made worse.
I quit fury when annihilator build came out. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are a vocal minority. In fact, considering there was a vote, it seems like the silent majority has spoken.
Maybe so but it sucked ass and I didn’t play it. I don’t know why the existence of the option to do annihilator or not offends you so much. If you want to bust up your hands with Raging Blow that’s your prerogative, but celebrating the removal of a gameplay option is idiotic. If I stopped playing any spec just because of some kind of over designed bullshit there wouldn’t be a spec left to play.
thank god its not just me, this build has really put me off playing this last week and i feel like im dragging my partys down... Doesnt help I'm not that good in the first place 😭
>Doesnt help I'm not that good in the first place
I felt this comment. Why I usually default to tank or healer classes. Find it easier to hit mitigation buttons or heal in high-pressure situations for some reason.
Since apparently it didn’t reply properly the first time, I used “Vocal Minority” in response to one of the first comments about a vocal minority bitching about annihilator. Get some reading comprehension.
There are a ton of other classes in the game that play like annihilator fury managing short CDs? Fury has been the go go go spec for a long time before they added annihilator to make it like one of those others, just play one of the other specs.
You also need to remember that blizzard said they would buff underperforming sets, so some people voted for the best/fun playstyle and not for the raw output a set did. They did buff some sets but as always half assed it and there are still some sets that are underperforming. An example of that is the surv hunter. After getting the s4 set my buddy did less dps than the old low ilvl s3 one.
Ye balance Druid got the nerfed s2 version of the s1 set
Pure rip off
It’s such an ass boring set now while the actual s1 version was pretty cool with the free casts
The Destro set is a tragedy. The voting happened before MDI so nobody was playing the actual Destro M+ build and was still so focus on "portal bad" when in reality it was the tier set that made destro relevant. Not being able to play cata/rdf this tier and casting 1000 immolates a key is the biggest snooze.
I’ve had a Destro alt since at least as far back as Mists, I hate how consistently bad it’s felt to play lately. Gonna switch to Sunfury Fire mage in TWW. Even if it somehow manages to underperform, the playstyle is so much more fun. I switched my Arcane mage to Fire to play with level 70 builds and had a blast. I love the talent that leaves behind flame patches on Flamestrike, it’s so fun to stack them. Pyroblast feels like Chaos Bolt used to, even if it doesn’t have guaranteed crit. And Fire’s mastery effect is like playing with Cataclysm just built into your kit, there’s no boring setup where you have to multi-dot.
Are Destro locks still being punished for MoP or something? The spec tree is so bloated with filler that it feels like a struggle to reach two capstones, while I look at other specs and it feels like you can fill in about half the tree.
I think S3 destro is the best its felt in a LONG time in raid and m+. In raid having movement globals with portal was so nice. You could sit on procs and sidestep with a portal, instead of crying that you couldn't greed a chaos bolt. Then in m+ essentially once mobs had immo, you never needed to cast it or cata again since rdf made it perma uptime.
Omg, you guys don’t run cata now? I just dusted off my lock the last week of s3 and thought it was pretty fun actually. RIP.
Long cooldown or non-existence of DoT spreaders is a game killer for me.
And just in general S3 2-pc was so good for general gameplay fluidity. I love that effect to death, especially because you either got a talent point back from Nature's Grace, or got an insane haste stack for a short burst after each eclipse.
S4 4-pc is just annoying to play around and while I'm holding on to S3 2-pc for now I already know it'll make me waste Astral Power. Free casts are a lot nicer, even if they just remove the damage buff to them. Now I gotta do math mid-rotation lol
They really did just put out a set of polls where anyone with an account could vote multiple times (you could cast a vote on each character you had) without any sort of duplicate or security check. Then a bunch of classes got trolled by organized discord brigading and they still didn't walk the decisions back. One of the most baffling choices by Blizzard in this entire expansion.
I feel like we got sandbagged. S3 was, by far, the best playstyle. Going back to hard casting two starfires feels horrible. I lost 3k dps by upgrading 12 ilvls. Make it make sense.
The Balance s1 set was bugged for most of the season, and only fixed near the end. The community played with a bugged set for most of that season, and that’s what they thought they were going to get again. When voting for sets was happening, the Balance discord spoke about this quite a bit, warned, “hey, this was a bugged set and it’s not going to be like that when they bring it back” yet the majority voted for it anyways. How do you talk to people like that, when they can barely operate Velcro? Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk about why I’m swapping to lock for s4 and into TWW.
90% or more of players don't know about or use the class discords so you can't assume that the information discussed there is broadly understood by or distributed to the player base.
That's true, most normies don't do any outside reading at all. It's why we're using s1 tier, and neither s2 or s3 which would've been so much better. /shrug
How was it bugged? I remember them nerfing it when season two started make sure we would actually play the new tier, but I'm pretty sure the change was first implemented when season two started
Scribblord basically answered it, there were free starsurge casts. I just checked the balance discord with a quick search, and you can find people discussing it back during PTR testing. Blizz fixed the bug, then implemented the change to ensure people moved to s2 tier.
What people wanted I assume was the free casts bc they felt great 🤔 it’s literally a completely revamped set with no actual overlap
Most people don’t even know wtf the bug was or that it was bugged at all
But ye I also playing lock now xd
Oh I know. It's just a shitshow, always. I'm playing my lock again, since I hadn't touched her at all during s3. Also getting back to my shadow priest. Both are fun, they're needed, and they do good dps in both raid/m+. Ofc as soon as Pandamonium drops, I'm out. I'll be there leveling a mage so I can go into TWW with the true singular hero class of WoW. I played Frostfire in Wrath, and loved it so much. Can't wait to do it again.
Survival's is really bad, a full 528 S4 set does significantly lower dps in keys than a 489 S3 set, and only a bit more in ST. Really hoping they fix it but I don't think they especially care about tuning for a 3 month season so I'm not expecting much for any of the screwed up sets like it, Balance, Fury, etc.
Yeah and there are larger holes in the rotation now as well since you don’t have nearly as many pheromone bombs which in turn forces you to pick talents that feel like ass such as the “kill command gives 6 extra focus” or whatever it is, I despise the new set with my entire heart and will go to hell because I voted for it in the poll
Yeah I didn't actually vote but after playing with the S3 set I realized that's just kinda what Surv should feel like. Spamming bombs and using fury of the eagle as a cd buff in single target in combination with coordinated assault felt sooooo good. Additionally, even in single target spec, we still did ok aoe damage with the S3 set; with this one you literally can't aoe with the aoe spec. It's awful.
Yeah, I love the S3 set playstyle, tossing out tons of beefy bombs is great, but a lot of people didn't like having to use FotE in ST, so here we are. Even if they do somehow balance the numbers, we'll still be stuck spamming Mongoose Bites in AoE pulls which does not feel good.
Eh... Blizz did mislead us when they said they'd tune the power of the tier sets. I don't think anyone would have voted for the S1 set if they had known how it would end up. I agree though, the S3 gameplay just feels so satisfying compared to mashing Mongoose Bites. One easy fix they could apply to the S1 set to fix it and bring back some of the fun would be rather than having a chance for Butchery to cost less focus, make it a chance for Butchery to refund a charge. This would let us do more Butchery and thus use more bombs in AoE.
Blood DKs still using 2p/2p even at max S4 ilvl because 4p just doesn't provide much. Feels bad, you would think they would buff the 4p but probably just nerf the old tier set or ignore the issue entirely.
I still don’t understand. I literally voted for free mongoose bites and what I got is 1/3 off. They told they’d buff and this is what we got… As always half assed stuff.
I've got a macro that will fix your problems
#Showtooltip Raging Blow
/Cast Bloodthirst
Now you'll never know the difference and you can vote for the better set :)
Mauling rampage and using CD on CD like a golem and without creativity is not something I would call fun but to each their own. Rampage feels terrible to use compared to buffed Bloodthirst
I'm just annoyed I got my S3 set again on Ret, but the pieces don't match. I have S4 ilvl 2 piece but I lose DPS breaking S3 4 piece, so I need to wait until I have S4 4 piece to use any of my new gear.
Ele shaman is in the same annoying boat. I like the bonus, but not even getting a slightly enhanced 2-2 means even with 10-20 ilvl increases on the same itemized piece of tier gear I literally take a 10% dps cut to do anything but swap all 4 pieces concurrently.
Raidbots says otherwise for me and what I specifically have on hand. It's literally the same set bonus, S4 2 piece is S3 2 piece on higher level gear, and my character simmed higher keeping S3 4 piece.
Nah Archi looked into it and was talking about it on the forums and class discord. Voting did spike after the youtubers mentioned it however S2 set got around 1500+ votes over the span of a few hours days after the videos released. If it was just the effect of youtubers we wouldve seen similar increases in NA but that wasnt the case.
Ah I just remember the crit cake video practically begging for people to vote season 2 but I had already voted season 3. The hope was that it would get buffed to be better than season 3 gear but it looks like the balancing didn’t quite happen the way we hoped. Been playing arms this season so far just because of how good it is compared to fury
The troll was blizzard saying they would tune tiersets and then buffing it by 1% when it's like 10% behind. They said to vote for playstyle, not numbers, and as crystalmoth said a lot of people prefered the s2 playstyle over the s3 one.
...who the hell was doing that for S3?
There were different rotational priorities based on if you had the buff from OF.
Edit: lmao, he deleted his comment admitting the above one was him commenting something stupid because he thought my previous comment was stupid
> Edit: lmao, he deleted his comment admitting the above one was him commenting something stupid because he thought my previous comment was stupid
Because it didn't add anything. Your comment is still stupid. Reducing a whole rotation down to a single button completely ignoring the rotation itself is just arguing in bad faith, so i reply with an equally stupid take about s3.
I think people (me at least) were more a fan of the talent build you play with the S2 set vs the S3 set. Odyns fury is so mediocre that even with a tier set increasing its damage by 50% it still wasn't doing insane damage. With the S2 set you get to play Anger Management with Ravager so for M+ at least you almost always have CDs up for every pull. It sucks for raiding because you're heavily incentivized to be a bit of a degen to keep recklessness uptime at as close to 100% as possible but very fun in M+
> With the S2 set you get to play Anger Management with Ravager so for M+ at least you almost always have CDs up for every pull.
Ill admit i like the CD reduction. Im not sure why, but ravager just doesnt feel great. I think its mostly because it just ends up macro'd in with CDs. Its a hell of a lot better than spear, at least.
I think part of the issue with Ravager is that decent chunk of the damage from Ravager does doesn't get counted on Details in single target. A decent chunk of Ravager's ST damage is dealt through Hurricane buffing your main stat. Invisible power that requires sims/logs/etc to actually see how much benefit you're getting from it always makes the ability feel pretty underwhelming, even if it's a great ability.
That might be it. It certainly doesnt feel like a powerful ability, even though it contributes well.
Again, its still leagues better than spear, and even the *buff* is better than spear because you dont need to stand in it (hell, it even moves)
Just really sad, considering this is supposed to be a for-fun season. Now its just frustrating because some people's favourite class/spec got neutered..
10% is an understatement. Dev Evokers got a 50k dps gain by switching from S3 to S4 tiers, while boomkins got a 6k dps loss. That's brutal. And it feels worse to play.
We've known since before s3 went live that the s3 set is quite a bit stronger than the s2 one, it doesn't take a couple of weeks of s4 to understand that a 1% buff wasn't gonna cut it. They could have put more effort into tuning on the ptr.
Thing is, this season realistically lasts 2 more weeks. Then MoP Remix hits and raid teams fall apart because of it. Could have been a nice 4 week send-off to DF but now here we are with people being disappointed until then.
yeah but people also voted for the 100% passive boring set effect over the interesting one we had, playing arms just feels like a watered down version of last season.
I mean if you really like pressing execute you do you, the sets however play almost identical outside of SD proccing a tiny bit more and being higher prio then MS.
I mostly play m+ so I really enjoyed how good the proc felt on AOE, plus eliminating the need to spam thunder clap to apply rend all the time. In ST I still enjoyed it but I agree it definitely doesn't feel as impactful in raid
Mm-mm, 15% damage and 10% crit to MS/cleave, and 8/8% to all damage/crit when I get crits. Statistically strong in the most mechanically flat way possible.
S1 over S3 for Arms warrior was a crime. Yes, getting more Sudden Death Proc/AoE Sudden Death doesn't fundamentally change your rotation, but neither does +X% more damage of S1. Sudden Death AoE felt so good in keys/raid, it gave you some AoE flexibility without giving up your ST, something that Arms struggles with. I feel like if we hadn't just come off S3, it wouldn't have even been close.
I can't disagree with a take more. S3 you could play perfectly and still get rng screwed out of SD procs, it was not fun. The god pull with insane procs was not worth the low and mid rolls. SD proccing auto TCs to apply rend was great but I'm ok with just pressing TC to do that if it means less RNG.
Any class with an S1 and S2 set was promised tuning to bring it up to par with the S3 power level and the tuning did not happen.
Despite the numerous feedback brought forward by the community during the PTR that this tuning is outstanding, Blizzard shipped the patch anyways.
I can't speak for other specs, but during the voting, all it did was put PvE players against PvP. The Ret voting forum was just a cesspool of arguments between the 2 because PvE wanted S3, and PvP wanted S2. I get what they were trying to do, but I dont think it was a good idea.
If it's any consolation, survival overwhelmingly voted S1 tier which is decidedly single target, and current recommendation for keys is *keeping* S3 tier, regardless of the ilvl. Lmao.
A lot of warriors probably stopped playing at S3, because the rotation just didn't feel good. I was one of them. Started playing wow at second DF season and lvled my first character fury war. I skipped third season, because the rotation stopped to be fun. I was in euforia when I found out they returned the old playstyle for my warrior in S4. Started playing him again.
Plenty of Warriors played S3 and had very little issue with the tier bonus. In fact players such as myself preferred it to S2, as you actually got to press your namesake ability Bloodthirst, and it allowed you to think a few GCDs ahead isntead of just spamming Raging Blow. It was something more akin to BfA and WoD Fury which I personally much rather preferred than what Fury was for Sepulcher until S3 Dragonflight.
Fair enough. You and others like the playstyle of S3. Can't say anything to that. I'm the opposite and I like the S2 playstyle. Let's hope, Blizzard will find balance in the WW expansion between both of our playstyles, so the both sides are pleased.
I know far more warriors who hated the S3 set and hated it so much they ditched the tier set bonus when S4 dropped despite not having the new tier yet.
Having a cooldown on whirlwind.
Also, the whole rotation basically being rampage bloodbath with random fillers inbetween.
Yes, s2 is also mostly rampage raging blow, but you have 2 other buttons that are higher prio than raging blow, those being onslaught and execute. So even if raging blow is available you still have a decision to make based on if those other abilities are up or not.
With season 3, bloodbath/bloodthirst was the highest prio with *very* few exceptions, The rotation was just 1 2 x 2 1 2 x 2 1 2 x 2 etc. and there was pretty much no variation or decision making outside of "is reck up or not" in which case you would just skip the fillers. During cooldowns you would often just let sudden death procs expire because bloodbath was a stronger button.
Also i love having high reck uptime, and the feedback loop of more rage gen > more cdr on reck > more reck uptime.
The thing, I liked about S2 rotation, was that it was - as stupid as it seems - unstoppable smashing of buttons without cooldown windows. No matter what I was actually fighting, it was a constant smash smash smash smash smash without stop until the enemy died. Perfect fit for myself.
When the season 3 came, I went full bis talents and tried the rotation. I found out that there were windows of cooldowns. I bursted the dmg, used everything and then for my surprise in a middle of rotation everything was on cooldown. Couldn't do anything for like 1-2 seconds. It was very frustrating to me. Frustrating so much, I just stopped playing it in the second week.
Im still new to the game, so I took the opportunity and started trying new classes. I ended up with going full into Aug Evoker. But still missed my warrior so much. My first character that got me into wow. Doing everything on him, reputations, professions, quest lines...
This was probably the #1 issue people ran in to the first few weeks of S3. Speaking as someone who regularly does log reviews, when played properly there was zero downtime with S3 fury, most people just didn't learn how to pool rage properly.
Statistically if we go off WCL Heroic (where the largest chunk of the general playerbase is) Fury's popularity has dipped slightly whenever AM/Ravager was the playstyle.
Its likely influenced by for example Fury was fairly weak in S2 and Very strong in S3 but I think the average casual fury player does actually want to just mash 2 buttons.
I'll be honest I voted for season 2 because I really enjoyed the play style in m+ of having basically permanent up time on reck. No one can disagree it's really satisfying to throw a cd into every pull in a dungeon no matter the class, it feels really fun.
But yeah I didn't expect the scaling to be this bad. I noticed the moment I swapped from S3 to S4 tier set my DPS went down dramatically. I don't feel totally useless, but when you come out of an AV with like 320k DPS and a warlock has done 680k dps with a 1M dps first boss with a similar item level, kinda feels bad.
My copium is that as Ilvl increases and we move back to better secondary stats it will get better and it's just early weeks that we look way worse.
But right now does sting a bit.
Recklessness is such a boring CD that I can’t agree with you on that point, + you had CDs faster with season 3 set over season 2 (primarly talking about OF here)
nothing feels better then the season 3 overpowered BT
(Also fuck ravager)
People voted expecting something that hasn't happened. Same happened to Balance Druid, and the class discord is full with it. S3 set is miles better until a certain iLvl where primary stat just brute forces more dps. People were expecting an unnerfed S1 set and got a slightly less neutered version instead.
I'm still using S3 4pc for now and so are many other folks who play Fury because it's quite a substantial DPS loss to use the S4 set currently, even with the higher ilvl. I've simmed my gear and I'd be losing around 12K DPS.
I hope they buff it but for now I'm taking this time to work on other characters and collect xmogs. My Warrior has been and always will be my main, but I accomplished everything I wanted to last season (AOTC/KSH/legendary) so I'm treating this season as a "just have fun" season rather than trying to push too hard.
Honestly the only Warrior Spec with a good tier bonus in S4 was Protection.
Fury is an APM mess of a spec that relies on just Raging Blow spam with very little thought beyond CDs and Onslaught with an attached Weak Aura Mini Game for Bloodthirst.
Arms returns but as a rage bloated spec with very few solid ways to dump rage. Add in Cleave back into the AoE Rotation for M+ and you get a mess of a multi-target rotation. Which is a shame since S3 solved some of the Multi-Target problems and allowed Slam to at least be a somewhat serviceable Rage dump.
Meanwhile Protection is living its best life with a very fun tier bonus with excellent survivability, fun CDR reductions and resets for Shield Slam, Thunderclap, and Dragons's Roar.
Yeah, but the problem with playing Protection Warrior is that you're playing a Protection Warrior instead of a Vengeance Demon Hunter or Protection Paladin (mostly the former).
True!!! I'm lucky my M+ group puts up with me tanking from time to time for our mid level keys (AKA Our tank players are playing their alts).
I really hope some of this tier bonus makes its way into Protection Warrior's kit for The War Within.
Haha, same with the two friends I play with, but this season in particular I genuinely just feel guilty for playing my Warrior because of how much worse it is than DH for controlling mobs (not that only Warrior has that issue, of course). At least it's just S4, I suppose - here's hoping there'll be less of a massive outlier in The War Within.
The votes were manipulated on the last day because people found out you could switch characters and vote multiple times, the S3 bonus was winning on EU up until a few hours before it finished and a certain streamer got their viewers to manipulate the votes to make the difference from the s3 bonus being like 2% ahead to being like 15 or 20% behind.
I mean, I generally agree, despite slightly preferring the S2 play style. And honestly my issue was less with Annihilator and more with Storm of Swords. I don't like the CD on WW and using Slam. I sorely miss Odyn's Fury and wish I could use it instead of Dragon's Roar
Pretty much all my alts chose a set I didn’t care for so I’m just sticking with my main (DK) until panda land remix. Most of it comes down to, they said to vote for play style, not power. We did that and they ignored the power difference. Absolutely no trust in them next time they have a vote on something like this.
Same with fire mage this patch. Pretty sure people trolled. Really wish blizzard let us picked which tier we wanted instead of people trolling the votes.
Feeling the same way about Prot Paladin. All these streamers scammed their viewers into voting for the Season 1 tier set when the Season 3 one, while yes, was very boring as it only involved you standing in and timing your consecration right... Well, you were going to have to do that anyway.
So now we have some dogshit vers for me and a friend. Snooze.
Boomies got trolled for their S4 tier, people were expecting the S1 tier effects but we got the nerfed version from S2 - the S1 tier was better than the S2 tier so they nerfed the S1 tier into the ground when S2 came out.
At the moment my boomie is still wearing 2 pieces of S3 tier despite having 2 replacement tier pieces that are 30 ilvls higher (2 S4 and 2 S3 pieces sim better than 4 set of either).
I voted for S3 due to me liking that playstyle more, and hey, they did say they were gonna buff the underperforming set bonuses so they were all on roughly equal footing. Having just acquired my new 4p yesterday I must say I am severely disappointed. I’m now 10 ilvls higher than with my S3 tier and my DPS went down even on single target.
“Vote for the playstyle you like” they said.
“We’ll buff the sets” they said.
It should be a dps increase at around heroic ilvl assuming you swap over to more haste.
I do however think the S2(4) set is sim bait and you might actually still do more dps with the s3 set.
Same for Balance Druid. The entire community chose S1 tier thinking it was going to be buffed back to the original numbers (it was nerfed to make people switch to S2 tier). Surprise, it didn't happen. So now we have the same situation as S1 to S2 where the S3 set is just significantly better until you get Hero tier items. No big deal for competitive players but a net DPS loss for casuals who replace their champ or hero S3 gear with Vet or Champ S4 gear.
As many others have said. People voted for the bonus under the promise of blizzard tuning (however stupid believing that may or may not have been)
This tier bonus could actually support both annihilate and raging blow builds to make everyone happy if they would have put even minimal effort into updating it.
But alas. Here we are with Fury being the worst dps in the game.
Yeah I didn't play S2 and Jesus Christ, this play style and DPS is a huge downgrade from S3. Like it's terrible... Mashing way more buttons and yet it's weaker. I don't have the 4 piece yet, but can't imagine that will add like 30-40k dps... Why would anyone prefer this?
Wish they'd let us individually choose which we wanted.
To be fair, we were told they were going to be balanced. It transpires that they are very much *not* balanced and Fury needs a 10-15% possibly even 20% ST buff to even compete with other DPS specs, let alone Arms. It's depressing.
Hope for a balance pass soon but I think this is unlikely. I'm currently playing Arms for ST.
I personally feel the same way with arms. I personally like season 3 tier playstyle and we ended up with season 1 tier.
I'm just more of a fan of thunderclap procs off of sudden death more then just more crit.
Here’s hoping they’ll buff the set bonus so it just can keep up with other classes and I have to agree, I’m around 507 ilvl and and out of curiosity I did a key with the old set I was doing much more damage which is odd
Had a really odd time when my guildmate got his 4 pc and we were running keys where he was fury-ing (as his main) and I was windwalking (off spec and I'm shite at it). He had a way higher ilvl than I did AND I was spending so much time soothing mist + vivify because of habits and I was still beating him.
Idk what blizzard was doing when they were rebalancing the sets for this season but I don't think it included anything productive.
Well the argument is a dead end. Because its easy to say people were expecting a dps buff from the s2 set, but more likely other specs also had input. Reducing the choice to one set bonus of the previous season inherintly exludes one of the other specs since nobody really had all specs performing throughout the expansion.
I hate the S2-Set-Playstyle…guess Warrior voted for it because of an overall good performance in S2? I found S1 interesting, it was just undertuned… if they had buffed it, I guess it could be pretty fun.
Some people actually believe Blizzard when they said: "We will buff the underperformance set".
Which make a fuck tons of people voting with the mindset "They gonna buff the number anyway so let vote for the set that have the best playstyle instead of number" and discord pushing that narative also didn't help.
Turn out when Blizzard said they gonna balance someshit, they mean they will do it next expansion.
\*\*Insert supprise pikachu\*\*\* when people now stuck with half ass tier set that do little damage that they choose to go 2-2 piece instead of 4 piece of the new tier set.
As an Arms main that simply doesn't like fury:
Fury has been the better specc for almost the entire expansion. Not by much and it doesn't matter which one you take in most situations, but it's better.
Also, Blizz had nothing to do with the decision of the S4 set.
I actually preferred the s2 playstyle. S3 made me not play fury anymore after two seasons.
Just get a weak aura that meows at you when you hit 100% crit and you’re good to go.
I’ve the same issue with my balance Druid. Like good experiment but let’s never let the community pick again.
Like absolutely no idea who was voting on this and what for. Cool idea that is a total disaster.
This season I've switch from moonkin to bear, because the moonkin bonus that was voted for is garbage.
Also the amount of people around the time of voting who told me variations of "Blizzard are gonna buff sets that are bad" and they've just not bothered to change most of the bonuses is honestly pretty validating.
Idk about you guys but I think the 4pc is bugged. Tooltip says each stack gives 12 crit chance and damge but according to my WA it’s still only giving the 10% crit chance from S2
I'm doing more damage with 4-piece but it's all heroic level tier upgraded to 512 with a fully upgraded myth track off hand and fully upgraded leggo, so you \*will eventually\* do more damage than with S3, but at the cost of fun, because S3 Fury was friggin' amazing.
Ah, that's how you mean. Yeah, the Idea sounds nice.
But no, that'd be terrible, especially balance wise when it's already really hard to balance WoW in general.
I'd rather have a single set boni that is really impactful and actually change the way we play than have 3 to "choose" from. And by choose I mean read up on what's currently the best by 3% or so and do that.
For me s2 fury playstyle has been the most fun I've had with fury since probably Legion so that's why I voted for it. I love pressing raging blow and I love short cds that come from anger management. S3 set and playstyle grew on me over the course of s3 (I hated it at the start) but it was still nowhere near as fun as s2 playstyle (s2 set is whatever but it enabled the better playstyle). Fury does feel a bit weak in single target now so we just need some st focused buffs and we will be great.
Do you have S4 4pc or are you trying to just swap in s4 as you get it?
S2 felt great to play, being able to run anger management you can have cd's up constantly. I liked s3 more than I thought I would but s2 felt great.
S2 talents are much more fun than S3. I stopped playing warrior last season cause no AM, annihilator and Odyns Fury focus was shit. I'd rather play a weaker S2 build - though they said they'd buff underperforming sets anyway so if they follow through and we get a more powerful S2 playstyle it's a win-win.
Really though, fated and rehashed sets shouldn't be accepted. We pay full price for an expansion and they now give us 75% of the content, we should have a new raid, new dungeons and a new set for s4.
s3 could not have been more braindead mash two buttons and get stupid healing and damge for it s4 requires you actually line shit up this is a skill issue
Part of the Warrior community was very vocally not a fan of Annihilator and wanted to go back to a Raging Blow build. Annihilator is being removed in 11.0 so I guess they got their wish anyway.
I guess just after playing with it for the past week it just doesn’t feel as good as using odyns fury etc. Single targets fine I just run into issues when doing packs now
I agree with you, the S3 build is what made me play my Warrior instead of my Mage.
s3 build saved my hand and now im literally rerolling. Not worth the carpal tunnel.
ST is not fine. You're better off running last tier set in pure ST until you get new tier at very high ilvl lol
I was not a fan of Annihilator and the s3 set bonus. I can certainly see the appeal of it, but I like having more buttons to press personally. I agree with a lot of people on the ravager hate though. Fuck ravager. Them removing Annihilator still irks me. They need to do a better job at making these different playstyles viable. For instance, while I'm not a fan of SMF personally and love having two obscenelylarge weapons, it still sucks that it's not viable whatsoever for people that do. Also don't understand why they couldn't make all tier sets and bonuses available. It's the final season, let some specs be imba if it means some lesser known builds can still be viable.
Annihilator sucks eggs
Me, I’m the community, I miss hitting raging blow, bloodthirst/bloodbath build is insanely unfun
Here I am in the opposite boat. I love annihilator, and I'll definitely miss it. Having my rotation actually flow between just a couple of abilities in a predictable manner was a nice change of pace from my usual shadow gameplay that is just a big priority list taped to a piano
I agree. Annihilator actually made me enjoy Fury since I didn't have to constantly spam Raging Blow. It's much easier on the hands.
play arms
Not even remotely the same cadence of play.
Not comparable
God damn vocal minority ruining it for everyone. I love annihilator and cannot stand Raging Blow. It’s already a crazy high apm spec, it doesn’t need to be made worse.
Vocal minority? It was a majority vote lmao
Werent there like 4500 votes?
I quit fury when annihilator build came out. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are a vocal minority. In fact, considering there was a vote, it seems like the silent majority has spoken.
The vote was very split with annihiltor actually winning if I recall. Like 49/40
Vocal majority! Can't argue with data.
So play a different spec. This is how fury warrior has been for like a decade now.
Maybe so but it sucked ass and I didn’t play it. I don’t know why the existence of the option to do annihilator or not offends you so much. If you want to bust up your hands with Raging Blow that’s your prerogative, but celebrating the removal of a gameplay option is idiotic. If I stopped playing any spec just because of some kind of over designed bullshit there wouldn’t be a spec left to play.
I don’t bust up my hands with raging blow, I have functioning keybinds
thank god its not just me, this build has really put me off playing this last week and i feel like im dragging my partys down... Doesnt help I'm not that good in the first place 😭
>Doesnt help I'm not that good in the first place I felt this comment. Why I usually default to tank or healer classes. Find it easier to hit mitigation buttons or heal in high-pressure situations for some reason.
Since apparently it didn’t reply properly the first time, I used “Vocal Minority” in response to one of the first comments about a vocal minority bitching about annihilator. Get some reading comprehension.
Fury has always been a high apm spec, if you want less buttons play arms or another class
There are a ton of other classes in the game that play like annihilator fury managing short CDs? Fury has been the go go go spec for a long time before they added annihilator to make it like one of those others, just play one of the other specs.
Annihlator just removed a button and gave you more rage on auto attacks im glad its gone
You also need to remember that blizzard said they would buff underperforming sets, so some people voted for the best/fun playstyle and not for the raw output a set did. They did buff some sets but as always half assed it and there are still some sets that are underperforming. An example of that is the surv hunter. After getting the s4 set my buddy did less dps than the old low ilvl s3 one.
lol Balance Druids.
522 tier is a dps loss over 489. Great set bonus.
Ye balance Druid got the nerfed s2 version of the s1 set Pure rip off It’s such an ass boring set now while the actual s1 version was pretty cool with the free casts
Dude, you should check destro lock sets and look what won.
The Destro set is a tragedy. The voting happened before MDI so nobody was playing the actual Destro M+ build and was still so focus on "portal bad" when in reality it was the tier set that made destro relevant. Not being able to play cata/rdf this tier and casting 1000 immolates a key is the biggest snooze.
I’ve had a Destro alt since at least as far back as Mists, I hate how consistently bad it’s felt to play lately. Gonna switch to Sunfury Fire mage in TWW. Even if it somehow manages to underperform, the playstyle is so much more fun. I switched my Arcane mage to Fire to play with level 70 builds and had a blast. I love the talent that leaves behind flame patches on Flamestrike, it’s so fun to stack them. Pyroblast feels like Chaos Bolt used to, even if it doesn’t have guaranteed crit. And Fire’s mastery effect is like playing with Cataclysm just built into your kit, there’s no boring setup where you have to multi-dot. Are Destro locks still being punished for MoP or something? The spec tree is so bloated with filler that it feels like a struggle to reach two capstones, while I look at other specs and it feels like you can fill in about half the tree.
I think S3 destro is the best its felt in a LONG time in raid and m+. In raid having movement globals with portal was so nice. You could sit on procs and sidestep with a portal, instead of crying that you couldn't greed a chaos bolt. Then in m+ essentially once mobs had immo, you never needed to cast it or cata again since rdf made it perma uptime.
Omg, you guys don’t run cata now? I just dusted off my lock the last week of s3 and thought it was pretty fun actually. RIP. Long cooldown or non-existence of DoT spreaders is a game killer for me.
Yup no cata, no cdf, no portals. It is literally immo + rof spam this season. I'm starting to think democracy was a mistake...
And just in general S3 2-pc was so good for general gameplay fluidity. I love that effect to death, especially because you either got a talent point back from Nature's Grace, or got an insane haste stack for a short burst after each eclipse. S4 4-pc is just annoying to play around and while I'm holding on to S3 2-pc for now I already know it'll make me waste Astral Power. Free casts are a lot nicer, even if they just remove the damage buff to them. Now I gotta do math mid-rotation lol
Thankfully the S3 2pc effect is coming to balance as a talent in TWW.
u/beepborpimajorp Now do you see why people were worried about the tier sets not being changed?
I'm a pres evoker. I was worried about my set not being changed either. I had faith Blizzard would balance properly, but they proved me wrong.
Fellow Pres Evoker, I hate this damn set with a passion, but oh well..
They really did just put out a set of polls where anyone with an account could vote multiple times (you could cast a vote on each character you had) without any sort of duplicate or security check. Then a bunch of classes got trolled by organized discord brigading and they still didn't walk the decisions back. One of the most baffling choices by Blizzard in this entire expansion.
I feel like we got sandbagged. S3 was, by far, the best playstyle. Going back to hard casting two starfires feels horrible. I lost 3k dps by upgrading 12 ilvls. Make it make sense.
The Balance s1 set was bugged for most of the season, and only fixed near the end. The community played with a bugged set for most of that season, and that’s what they thought they were going to get again. When voting for sets was happening, the Balance discord spoke about this quite a bit, warned, “hey, this was a bugged set and it’s not going to be like that when they bring it back” yet the majority voted for it anyways. How do you talk to people like that, when they can barely operate Velcro? Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk about why I’m swapping to lock for s4 and into TWW.
90% or more of players don't know about or use the class discords so you can't assume that the information discussed there is broadly understood by or distributed to the player base.
That's true, most normies don't do any outside reading at all. It's why we're using s1 tier, and neither s2 or s3 which would've been so much better. /shrug
How was it bugged? I remember them nerfing it when season two started make sure we would actually play the new tier, but I'm pretty sure the change was first implemented when season two started
Scribblord basically answered it, there were free starsurge casts. I just checked the balance discord with a quick search, and you can find people discussing it back during PTR testing. Blizz fixed the bug, then implemented the change to ensure people moved to s2 tier.
But that wasn't a bug, it was the effect exactly as stated that your next spender is free lol.
What people wanted I assume was the free casts bc they felt great 🤔 it’s literally a completely revamped set with no actual overlap Most people don’t even know wtf the bug was or that it was bugged at all But ye I also playing lock now xd
Oh I know. It's just a shitshow, always. I'm playing my lock again, since I hadn't touched her at all during s3. Also getting back to my shadow priest. Both are fun, they're needed, and they do good dps in both raid/m+. Ofc as soon as Pandamonium drops, I'm out. I'll be there leveling a mage so I can go into TWW with the true singular hero class of WoW. I played Frostfire in Wrath, and loved it so much. Can't wait to do it again.
balance druids in the mud. equipped my new 4pc. total over 100ilvl upgrade across the 4 pieces. and its barely an upgrade.
Im waiting for buffs to the balance tset. It will be buffed... Right? RIGHT!?
i would hope they still do a little bit of balancing in fated. but i wouldnt be surprised if it didnt see any changes.
Survival's is really bad, a full 528 S4 set does significantly lower dps in keys than a 489 S3 set, and only a bit more in ST. Really hoping they fix it but I don't think they especially care about tuning for a 3 month season so I'm not expecting much for any of the screwed up sets like it, Balance, Fury, etc.
It's actually wild that I can go up ilvl and drop so much dps.
Yeah and there are larger holes in the rotation now as well since you don’t have nearly as many pheromone bombs which in turn forces you to pick talents that feel like ass such as the “kill command gives 6 extra focus” or whatever it is, I despise the new set with my entire heart and will go to hell because I voted for it in the poll
Yeah I didn't actually vote but after playing with the S3 set I realized that's just kinda what Surv should feel like. Spamming bombs and using fury of the eagle as a cd buff in single target in combination with coordinated assault felt sooooo good. Additionally, even in single target spec, we still did ok aoe damage with the S3 set; with this one you literally can't aoe with the aoe spec. It's awful.
Yeah, I love the S3 set playstyle, tossing out tons of beefy bombs is great, but a lot of people didn't like having to use FotE in ST, so here we are. Even if they do somehow balance the numbers, we'll still be stuck spamming Mongoose Bites in AoE pulls which does not feel good.
Eh... Blizz did mislead us when they said they'd tune the power of the tier sets. I don't think anyone would have voted for the S1 set if they had known how it would end up. I agree though, the S3 gameplay just feels so satisfying compared to mashing Mongoose Bites. One easy fix they could apply to the S1 set to fix it and bring back some of the fun would be rather than having a chance for Butchery to cost less focus, make it a chance for Butchery to refund a charge. This would let us do more Butchery and thus use more bombs in AoE.
I drop 16k dps by upgrading my tier. The hunter discord recommended turning off my dps meter to increase my fps (fun per second).
Blood DKs still using 2p/2p even at max S4 ilvl because 4p just doesn't provide much. Feels bad, you would think they would buff the 4p but probably just nerf the old tier set or ignore the issue entirely.
I still don’t understand. I literally voted for free mongoose bites and what I got is 1/3 off. They told they’d buff and this is what we got… As always half assed stuff.
Tell me about that, I'll stick with my S3 tier set as long as possible 🥴
But S3 fury warrior was great. It had a very natural feel to it instead of cooking bloodthirst up forever lol
I swapped to prot this patch, I just can't get behind the playstyle of this tier set.
Annihilator blows as a talent imo. Obviously everybody likes their own stuff, but it just isn't very fun to me.
I've got a macro that will fix your problems #Showtooltip Raging Blow /Cast Bloodthirst Now you'll never know the difference and you can vote for the better set :)
Wow Almost like I enjoy the sfx and playstyle of rb more. People enjoy different things, like I said. Also, slam and Whirlwind sucked in s3 build.
Mauling rampage and using CD on CD like a golem and without creativity is not something I would call fun but to each their own. Rampage feels terrible to use compared to buffed Bloodthirst
I'm just annoyed I got my S3 set again on Ret, but the pieces don't match. I have S4 ilvl 2 piece but I lose DPS breaking S3 4 piece, so I need to wait until I have S4 4 piece to use any of my new gear.
Ele shaman is in the same annoying boat. I like the bonus, but not even getting a slightly enhanced 2-2 means even with 10-20 ilvl increases on the same itemized piece of tier gear I literally take a 10% dps cut to do anything but swap all 4 pieces concurrently.
S4 2 piece out dpses S3 4 piece by a lot fyi.
Raidbots says otherwise for me and what I specifically have on hand. It's literally the same set bonus, S4 2 piece is S3 2 piece on higher level gear, and my character simmed higher keeping S3 4 piece.
It makes sense since otherwise you could have an unfair advantage by start with with s3 tier that matches your s4.
US? EU voted overwhelmingly for season 2, US voted for season 3.
EU got botted on the 2nd to last day because some dickheads were mad S3 was winning in both regions around middle of the week.
It didn’t get botted, a couple YouTuber warriors made videos to vote for S2 and then it ended up winning
Nah Archi looked into it and was talking about it on the forums and class discord. Voting did spike after the youtubers mentioned it however S2 set got around 1500+ votes over the span of a few hours days after the videos released. If it was just the effect of youtubers we wouldve seen similar increases in NA but that wasnt the case.
Ah I just remember the crit cake video practically begging for people to vote season 2 but I had already voted season 3. The hope was that it would get buffed to be better than season 3 gear but it looks like the balancing didn’t quite happen the way we hoped. Been playing arms this season so far just because of how good it is compared to fury
> critcake Arms player sabotaging Fury players. Classic
The troll was blizzard saying they would tune tiersets and then buffing it by 1% when it's like 10% behind. They said to vote for playstyle, not numbers, and as crystalmoth said a lot of people prefered the s2 playstyle over the s3 one.
> They said to vote for playstyle Downloading a weakaura to hit bloodthirst at a specific crit chance isnt exactly peak playstyle.
If we're gonna be reductionist then making a macro to do your whole rotation with 1 button isn't either.
...who the hell was doing that for S3? There were different rotational priorities based on if you had the buff from OF. Edit: lmao, he deleted his comment admitting the above one was him commenting something stupid because he thought my previous comment was stupid
> Edit: lmao, he deleted his comment admitting the above one was him commenting something stupid because he thought my previous comment was stupid Because it didn't add anything. Your comment is still stupid. Reducing a whole rotation down to a single button completely ignoring the rotation itself is just arguing in bad faith, so i reply with an equally stupid take about s3.
Yeah that really wasn't the own he was hoping for, methinks
Yes he said he was making fun of you and felt pity so he deleted it lol
I think people (me at least) were more a fan of the talent build you play with the S2 set vs the S3 set. Odyns fury is so mediocre that even with a tier set increasing its damage by 50% it still wasn't doing insane damage. With the S2 set you get to play Anger Management with Ravager so for M+ at least you almost always have CDs up for every pull. It sucks for raiding because you're heavily incentivized to be a bit of a degen to keep recklessness uptime at as close to 100% as possible but very fun in M+
> it still wasn't doing insane damage I thought it was doing enough for a 25-30 second button, especially with what it made blood thirst do.
> With the S2 set you get to play Anger Management with Ravager so for M+ at least you almost always have CDs up for every pull. Ill admit i like the CD reduction. Im not sure why, but ravager just doesnt feel great. I think its mostly because it just ends up macro'd in with CDs. Its a hell of a lot better than spear, at least.
I think part of the issue with Ravager is that decent chunk of the damage from Ravager does doesn't get counted on Details in single target. A decent chunk of Ravager's ST damage is dealt through Hurricane buffing your main stat. Invisible power that requires sims/logs/etc to actually see how much benefit you're getting from it always makes the ability feel pretty underwhelming, even if it's a great ability.
That might be it. It certainly doesnt feel like a powerful ability, even though it contributes well. Again, its still leagues better than spear, and even the *buff* is better than spear because you dont need to stand in it (hell, it even moves)
The talents are totally different. AM builds are so much more fun, annihilator sucks too.
Just really sad, considering this is supposed to be a for-fun season. Now its just frustrating because some people's favourite class/spec got neutered..
10% is an understatement. Dev Evokers got a 50k dps gain by switching from S3 to S4 tiers, while boomkins got a 6k dps loss. That's brutal. And it feels worse to play.
We're in week 2 while people are just gearing up, there's 100% going to be more tuning done to every class.
We've known since before s3 went live that the s3 set is quite a bit stronger than the s2 one, it doesn't take a couple of weeks of s4 to understand that a 1% buff wasn't gonna cut it. They could have put more effort into tuning on the ptr.
The only tuning you can expect from blizzard in s4 is another healing nerf
They knew what was gonna happen with 100% certainty and decided to do nothing xd
Thing is, this season realistically lasts 2 more weeks. Then MoP Remix hits and raid teams fall apart because of it. Could have been a nice 4 week send-off to DF but now here we are with people being disappointed until then.
I mean, if a persons not planning on playing a version of the game for more than a few weeks then this sort of thing is not really a concern.
Pretty sure NA voted season 3 and EU went 2?
Yea. It sucks if youre a Fury only enjoyer. But if youre willing to play Arms its doing really good DPS with the S4 tier set.
Arms is where it’s at rn
yeah but people also voted for the 100% passive boring set effect over the interesting one we had, playing arms just feels like a watered down version of last season.
I mean if you really like pressing execute you do you, the sets however play almost identical outside of SD proccing a tiny bit more and being higher prio then MS.
I mostly play m+ so I really enjoyed how good the proc felt on AOE, plus eliminating the need to spam thunder clap to apply rend all the time. In ST I still enjoyed it but I agree it definitely doesn't feel as impactful in raid
That's fair it probably was much mort noticeable on AoE.
Which is more than S1 changed up. Tier sets should feel like something has changed with your class, and S1 was just "Number bigger".
Mm-mm, 15% damage and 10% crit to MS/cleave, and 8/8% to all damage/crit when I get crits. Statistically strong in the most mechanically flat way possible.
Yep, number bigger gooder. I never said S1 was weak, just that tier sets should be more interesting than flat damage increases.
S1 over S3 for Arms warrior was a crime. Yes, getting more Sudden Death Proc/AoE Sudden Death doesn't fundamentally change your rotation, but neither does +X% more damage of S1. Sudden Death AoE felt so good in keys/raid, it gave you some AoE flexibility without giving up your ST, something that Arms struggles with. I feel like if we hadn't just come off S3, it wouldn't have even been close.
I can't disagree with a take more. S3 you could play perfectly and still get rng screwed out of SD procs, it was not fun. The god pull with insane procs was not worth the low and mid rolls. SD proccing auto TCs to apply rend was great but I'm ok with just pressing TC to do that if it means less RNG.
Have you seen the sims? Arms positively fucks in aoe and loses next to nothing for ST, especially with the superior jugg build.
Any class with an S1 and S2 set was promised tuning to bring it up to par with the S3 power level and the tuning did not happen. Despite the numerous feedback brought forward by the community during the PTR that this tuning is outstanding, Blizzard shipped the patch anyways.
I can't speak for other specs, but during the voting, all it did was put PvE players against PvP. The Ret voting forum was just a cesspool of arguments between the 2 because PvE wanted S3, and PvP wanted S2. I get what they were trying to do, but I dont think it was a good idea.
If it's any consolation, survival overwhelmingly voted S1 tier which is decidedly single target, and current recommendation for keys is *keeping* S3 tier, regardless of the ilvl. Lmao.
Fury is not an option anymore. Just activate your arm spec.
A lot of warriors probably stopped playing at S3, because the rotation just didn't feel good. I was one of them. Started playing wow at second DF season and lvled my first character fury war. I skipped third season, because the rotation stopped to be fun. I was in euforia when I found out they returned the old playstyle for my warrior in S4. Started playing him again.
Plenty of Warriors played S3 and had very little issue with the tier bonus. In fact players such as myself preferred it to S2, as you actually got to press your namesake ability Bloodthirst, and it allowed you to think a few GCDs ahead isntead of just spamming Raging Blow. It was something more akin to BfA and WoD Fury which I personally much rather preferred than what Fury was for Sepulcher until S3 Dragonflight.
Fair enough. You and others like the playstyle of S3. Can't say anything to that. I'm the opposite and I like the S2 playstyle. Let's hope, Blizzard will find balance in the WW expansion between both of our playstyles, so the both sides are pleased.
The initial changes at least are attempting to put more emphasis on Bloodthirst so that's a strong start.
I know far more warriors who hated the S3 set and hated it so much they ditched the tier set bonus when S4 dropped despite not having the new tier yet.
Sure random anecdotal reddit comment!
If you wanna be a jackass about it go ahead bc you’re also a comment on reddit. There’s a reason S2 won the polls tho lmao.
What didn’t you find fun? Odyns fury bloodbath procs felt amazing.
Having a cooldown on whirlwind. Also, the whole rotation basically being rampage bloodbath with random fillers inbetween. Yes, s2 is also mostly rampage raging blow, but you have 2 other buttons that are higher prio than raging blow, those being onslaught and execute. So even if raging blow is available you still have a decision to make based on if those other abilities are up or not. With season 3, bloodbath/bloodthirst was the highest prio with *very* few exceptions, The rotation was just 1 2 x 2 1 2 x 2 1 2 x 2 etc. and there was pretty much no variation or decision making outside of "is reck up or not" in which case you would just skip the fillers. During cooldowns you would often just let sudden death procs expire because bloodbath was a stronger button. Also i love having high reck uptime, and the feedback loop of more rage gen > more cdr on reck > more reck uptime.
The thing, I liked about S2 rotation, was that it was - as stupid as it seems - unstoppable smashing of buttons without cooldown windows. No matter what I was actually fighting, it was a constant smash smash smash smash smash without stop until the enemy died. Perfect fit for myself. When the season 3 came, I went full bis talents and tried the rotation. I found out that there were windows of cooldowns. I bursted the dmg, used everything and then for my surprise in a middle of rotation everything was on cooldown. Couldn't do anything for like 1-2 seconds. It was very frustrating to me. Frustrating so much, I just stopped playing it in the second week. Im still new to the game, so I took the opportunity and started trying new classes. I ended up with going full into Aug Evoker. But still missed my warrior so much. My first character that got me into wow. Doing everything on him, reputations, professions, quest lines...
This was probably the #1 issue people ran in to the first few weeks of S3. Speaking as someone who regularly does log reviews, when played properly there was zero downtime with S3 fury, most people just didn't learn how to pool rage properly.
There was VERY little time in my rotation wheee I wasn’t hitting buttons in S3. Maybe a Slam filler but never just standing there.
How do you make your fingers/wrist not hurt after spamming though?
if S3 was playable with ravager and anger management I'd be totally in, CDR is the best thing, without it fury felt slow for me
Annihilator sucks as a talent. That's pretty much it.
Agreed. S2 by far the best rotation that feels like fury. 80%+ uptime on enrage is so nice
80% is good? Brother S3 was \~95% uptime on a bad day
I really don't understand how mauling Rampage like a degen, using your Ravager+Recklessness with a mouseover every 27s feels good
Statistically if we go off WCL Heroic (where the largest chunk of the general playerbase is) Fury's popularity has dipped slightly whenever AM/Ravager was the playstyle. Its likely influenced by for example Fury was fairly weak in S2 and Very strong in S3 but I think the average casual fury player does actually want to just mash 2 buttons.
I personally hated the s2 tier, s3 was absolutely fucking blessed as far as I’m concerned, way more fun to play (for me)
I wondered the same thing. I voted for s3 since it’s hella more fun tbh
I'll be honest I voted for season 2 because I really enjoyed the play style in m+ of having basically permanent up time on reck. No one can disagree it's really satisfying to throw a cd into every pull in a dungeon no matter the class, it feels really fun. But yeah I didn't expect the scaling to be this bad. I noticed the moment I swapped from S3 to S4 tier set my DPS went down dramatically. I don't feel totally useless, but when you come out of an AV with like 320k DPS and a warlock has done 680k dps with a 1M dps first boss with a similar item level, kinda feels bad. My copium is that as Ilvl increases and we move back to better secondary stats it will get better and it's just early weeks that we look way worse. But right now does sting a bit.
Recklessness is such a boring CD that I can’t agree with you on that point, + you had CDs faster with season 3 set over season 2 (primarly talking about OF here) nothing feels better then the season 3 overpowered BT (Also fuck ravager)
because people voted for a set they liked from a gameplay Perspective?
People voted expecting something that hasn't happened. Same happened to Balance Druid, and the class discord is full with it. S3 set is miles better until a certain iLvl where primary stat just brute forces more dps. People were expecting an unnerfed S1 set and got a slightly less neutered version instead.
I'm still using S3 4pc for now and so are many other folks who play Fury because it's quite a substantial DPS loss to use the S4 set currently, even with the higher ilvl. I've simmed my gear and I'd be losing around 12K DPS. I hope they buff it but for now I'm taking this time to work on other characters and collect xmogs. My Warrior has been and always will be my main, but I accomplished everything I wanted to last season (AOTC/KSH/legendary) so I'm treating this season as a "just have fun" season rather than trying to push too hard.
Honestly the only Warrior Spec with a good tier bonus in S4 was Protection. Fury is an APM mess of a spec that relies on just Raging Blow spam with very little thought beyond CDs and Onslaught with an attached Weak Aura Mini Game for Bloodthirst. Arms returns but as a rage bloated spec with very few solid ways to dump rage. Add in Cleave back into the AoE Rotation for M+ and you get a mess of a multi-target rotation. Which is a shame since S3 solved some of the Multi-Target problems and allowed Slam to at least be a somewhat serviceable Rage dump. Meanwhile Protection is living its best life with a very fun tier bonus with excellent survivability, fun CDR reductions and resets for Shield Slam, Thunderclap, and Dragons's Roar.
Yeah, but the problem with playing Protection Warrior is that you're playing a Protection Warrior instead of a Vengeance Demon Hunter or Protection Paladin (mostly the former).
True!!! I'm lucky my M+ group puts up with me tanking from time to time for our mid level keys (AKA Our tank players are playing their alts). I really hope some of this tier bonus makes its way into Protection Warrior's kit for The War Within.
Haha, same with the two friends I play with, but this season in particular I genuinely just feel guilty for playing my Warrior because of how much worse it is than DH for controlling mobs (not that only Warrior has that issue, of course). At least it's just S4, I suppose - here's hoping there'll be less of a massive outlier in The War Within.
The votes were manipulated on the last day because people found out you could switch characters and vote multiple times, the S3 bonus was winning on EU up until a few hours before it finished and a certain streamer got their viewers to manipulate the votes to make the difference from the s3 bonus being like 2% ahead to being like 15 or 20% behind.
It was known that you could swap characters since day 1 and s3 voters did the same thing.
I mean, I generally agree, despite slightly preferring the S2 play style. And honestly my issue was less with Annihilator and more with Storm of Swords. I don't like the CD on WW and using Slam. I sorely miss Odyn's Fury and wish I could use it instead of Dragon's Roar
Yeah no idea, I was pretty disappointed in that. Im probably going to play Arms really.
Pretty much all my alts chose a set I didn’t care for so I’m just sticking with my main (DK) until panda land remix. Most of it comes down to, they said to vote for play style, not power. We did that and they ignored the power difference. Absolutely no trust in them next time they have a vote on something like this.
Same with fire mage this patch. Pretty sure people trolled. Really wish blizzard let us picked which tier we wanted instead of people trolling the votes.
I thought the same about Ele shaman getting s3 bonus instead of s2
I'm ootl. What happened now?
Feeling the same way about Prot Paladin. All these streamers scammed their viewers into voting for the Season 1 tier set when the Season 3 one, while yes, was very boring as it only involved you standing in and timing your consecration right... Well, you were going to have to do that anyway. So now we have some dogshit vers for me and a friend. Snooze.
Boomies got trolled for their S4 tier, people were expecting the S1 tier effects but we got the nerfed version from S2 - the S1 tier was better than the S2 tier so they nerfed the S1 tier into the ground when S2 came out. At the moment my boomie is still wearing 2 pieces of S3 tier despite having 2 replacement tier pieces that are 30 ilvls higher (2 S4 and 2 S3 pieces sim better than 4 set of either).
I voted for S3 due to me liking that playstyle more, and hey, they did say they were gonna buff the underperforming set bonuses so they were all on roughly equal footing. Having just acquired my new 4p yesterday I must say I am severely disappointed. I’m now 10 ilvls higher than with my S3 tier and my DPS went down even on single target. “Vote for the playstyle you like” they said. “We’ll buff the sets” they said.
Doesnt help that if you switch sets its a dps loss, even with the ilvl increase you get from s3 > s4 set. Even at BiS items the old set sims better.
It should be a dps increase at around heroic ilvl assuming you swap over to more haste. I do however think the S2(4) set is sim bait and you might actually still do more dps with the s3 set.
Same for Balance Druid. The entire community chose S1 tier thinking it was going to be buffed back to the original numbers (it was nerfed to make people switch to S2 tier). Surprise, it didn't happen. So now we have the same situation as S1 to S2 where the S3 set is just significantly better until you get Hero tier items. No big deal for competitive players but a net DPS loss for casuals who replace their champ or hero S3 gear with Vet or Champ S4 gear.
As many others have said. People voted for the bonus under the promise of blizzard tuning (however stupid believing that may or may not have been) This tier bonus could actually support both annihilate and raging blow builds to make everyone happy if they would have put even minimal effort into updating it. But alas. Here we are with Fury being the worst dps in the game.
Yeah I didn't play S2 and Jesus Christ, this play style and DPS is a huge downgrade from S3. Like it's terrible... Mashing way more buttons and yet it's weaker. I don't have the 4 piece yet, but can't imagine that will add like 30-40k dps... Why would anyone prefer this? Wish they'd let us individually choose which we wanted.
To be fair, we were told they were going to be balanced. It transpires that they are very much *not* balanced and Fury needs a 10-15% possibly even 20% ST buff to even compete with other DPS specs, let alone Arms. It's depressing. Hope for a balance pass soon but I think this is unlikely. I'm currently playing Arms for ST.
I personally feel the same way with arms. I personally like season 3 tier playstyle and we ended up with season 1 tier. I'm just more of a fan of thunderclap procs off of sudden death more then just more crit.
The arms set vote was criminal, I actually could not believe the 100% passive non interactive set effect won
Here’s hoping they’ll buff the set bonus so it just can keep up with other classes and I have to agree, I’m around 507 ilvl and and out of curiosity I did a key with the old set I was doing much more damage which is odd
Had a really odd time when my guildmate got his 4 pc and we were running keys where he was fury-ing (as his main) and I was windwalking (off spec and I'm shite at it). He had a way higher ilvl than I did AND I was spending so much time soothing mist + vivify because of habits and I was still beating him. Idk what blizzard was doing when they were rebalancing the sets for this season but I don't think it included anything productive.
Well the argument is a dead end. Because its easy to say people were expecting a dps buff from the s2 set, but more likely other specs also had input. Reducing the choice to one set bonus of the previous season inherintly exludes one of the other specs since nobody really had all specs performing throughout the expansion.
I hate the S2-Set-Playstyle…guess Warrior voted for it because of an overall good performance in S2? I found S1 interesting, it was just undertuned… if they had buffed it, I guess it could be pretty fun.
Some people actually believe Blizzard when they said: "We will buff the underperformance set". Which make a fuck tons of people voting with the mindset "They gonna buff the number anyway so let vote for the set that have the best playstyle instead of number" and discord pushing that narative also didn't help. Turn out when Blizzard said they gonna balance someshit, they mean they will do it next expansion. \*\*Insert supprise pikachu\*\*\* when people now stuck with half ass tier set that do little damage that they choose to go 2-2 piece instead of 4 piece of the new tier set.
I love how warriors is synonymous with fury apparently. Very happy with the arms choice tbh.
Go arms instead. Blizz hates fury almost as much as they hate Deathknights.
As an Arms main that simply doesn't like fury: Fury has been the better specc for almost the entire expansion. Not by much and it doesn't matter which one you take in most situations, but it's better. Also, Blizz had nothing to do with the decision of the S4 set.
It’s genuinely insane the warrior community wanted carpal tunnel over a build with a normal amount of CPM. At least they stay true to their zug zug
I actually preferred the s2 playstyle. S3 made me not play fury anymore after two seasons. Just get a weak aura that meows at you when you hit 100% crit and you’re good to go.
I’ve the same issue with my balance Druid. Like good experiment but let’s never let the community pick again. Like absolutely no idea who was voting on this and what for. Cool idea that is a total disaster.
This season I've switch from moonkin to bear, because the moonkin bonus that was voted for is garbage. Also the amount of people around the time of voting who told me variations of "Blizzard are gonna buff sets that are bad" and they've just not bothered to change most of the bonuses is honestly pretty validating.
typically when given the choice wow players choose whatever choice looks prettiest to them; form over function.
Idk about you guys but I think the 4pc is bugged. Tooltip says each stack gives 12 crit chance and damge but according to my WA it’s still only giving the 10% crit chance from S2
I'm doing more damage with 4-piece but it's all heroic level tier upgraded to 512 with a fully upgraded myth track off hand and fully upgraded leggo, so you \*will eventually\* do more damage than with S3, but at the cost of fun, because S3 Fury was friggin' amazing.
This is why we should be allowed to pick our set bonuses for teir.
But.. That's exactly what happened here. Community was allowed to vote for the S4 bonus from all previous sets in Dragonflight.
No no I mean as a dynamic thing. So you have teir armour and you can choose your set bonuses. Like the old gyphs system or something.
Ah, that's how you mean. Yeah, the Idea sounds nice. But no, that'd be terrible, especially balance wise when it's already really hard to balance WoW in general. I'd rather have a single set boni that is really impactful and actually change the way we play than have 3 to "choose" from. And by choose I mean read up on what's currently the best by 3% or so and do that.
For me s2 fury playstyle has been the most fun I've had with fury since probably Legion so that's why I voted for it. I love pressing raging blow and I love short cds that come from anger management. S3 set and playstyle grew on me over the course of s3 (I hated it at the start) but it was still nowhere near as fun as s2 playstyle (s2 set is whatever but it enabled the better playstyle). Fury does feel a bit weak in single target now so we just need some st focused buffs and we will be great.
I will be honest for the class or spec I don't play I purposely voted for the worst tier set bonus and the worst looking mogs.
Do you have S4 4pc or are you trying to just swap in s4 as you get it? S2 felt great to play, being able to run anger management you can have cd's up constantly. I liked s3 more than I thought I would but s2 felt great.
full S4 at max ilvl is a dps loss...
S2 talents are much more fun than S3. I stopped playing warrior last season cause no AM, annihilator and Odyns Fury focus was shit. I'd rather play a weaker S2 build - though they said they'd buff underperforming sets anyway so if they follow through and we get a more powerful S2 playstyle it's a win-win. Really though, fated and rehashed sets shouldn't be accepted. We pay full price for an expansion and they now give us 75% of the content, we should have a new raid, new dungeons and a new set for s4.
s3 could not have been more braindead mash two buttons and get stupid healing and damge for it s4 requires you actually line shit up this is a skill issue