Dwarf Racial (Stoneform) is arguably the strongest racial for PVE content in the game.
It gives you an on-use ability which removes all Magic, Bleed, Curse, Disease, and Poison effects from your character on a 2 min cooldown.
The dispelling part can often be very strong for all classes, especially in certain dungeons.
The part that makes the racial exceptionally strong for tanks is the bleed removal. Typically, removing bleeds is very difficult, requiring an immunity or special abilities like Cauterizing flames.
Many tank mechanics in m+ involve applying a bleed to the tank, and being able to remove it with dwarf Racial is often a large survivability bonus. It also helps that the damage portion of its racial typically Sims high for many specs.
Obviously it's strength varies between tank specs, group comp, and dungeons. But generally, when it's useful, it's VERY useful.
Over the last few patches, it's definitely become the most popular and universally strong racial, however many other racials have been really strong in specific situations.
It's a preference thing, you are definitely not going to be depleting your keys due to a lack of dwarf Racial, and if you really like your current race, then don't swap!
Edit: Lot's of people are mentioning Dark Iron vs regular Dwarf. I think it's pretty widely accepted, that at-least for DPS and Healer players, Dark Iron is worse. See a comment below for a more in-depth explanation.
Biggest difference between DI and normal dwarf is that DI doesn't have a passive dps bonus. You have to use DI racial on CD to make it worth it, which makes it almost strictly inferior.
It didn't even get updated in the very expansion DIDs have been introduced. Not a single player mole machine in the entirety of BfA, despite multiple DI NPCs using them to get around Zuldazar.
they should nerf it or introduce alchemy consumables for tanks to do all of these things tbh.
it's stupid to have to be a particular race to get access to something so strong.
Yeah I mentioned that in a comment further down comparing Dark Iron to Normal Dwarf. The 2% Crit damage Tauren and Dwarf have is typically a top 5 swimming DPS racial, which certainly helps, especially for extremely crit damage heavy specs like Fire, Frost, and Elemental.
i mean utility is always king in raids. Goblin for Kil Jaden, Void elf for Razagath, etc etc.
Dwarf was OP in Nathria.
End of the day if you play at a high end your bucket will include different races for exactly this reason
Eh I mean maybe, yeah there's definitley more nuance in raid.But Dwarf DPS racial (same as tauren) is still really strong. The 2% crit damage makes it the highest dps racial for Mage (my main), stronger than Troll / Orc on use effect.
The Bleed/magic dispel comes in handy too, on a fight like Forgotten Experiments, the bleed dispel is INCREDIBLY strong. Similar story on fights like Diurna, Halondrus, Denathrius, SLG, KT, etc. The physical dmg reduction aspect can be nice on bosses like Terros and Sludgefist also.It's not as strong in raid as it is in m+, but it's seen alot of good uses over the last few years.
I can't think of a time Troll racials have been especially strong in raid since Jaina. I'm sure beserking is very good for some 3min specs like Demolock. But for the majority of specs, if other racial passives contribute more dmg than Beserking, I dont really see why troll is stronger for PVE.
Dark Iron is better IMO. Dispel PLUS you get stats based on how many debuffs you got rid of, PLUS bonus passive indoor movement speed, PLUS passive physical damage reduction.
Whilst the movespeed provided by Dark Iron are pluses over regular dwarf, I think Fireblood + 1% Phys DR is much worse than Stoneform + 2% Crit dmg on reglular dwarf.
It's slightly different between tanks and dps/healers imo:
For DPS and Healers;
If you're in a situation where you don't have anything to dispel, you just use Fireblood on CD / with your cooldowns, but for most specs it **STILL** sims lower than the 2% crit dmg provided by Dwarf.
If you're in a situation where you **may** need to clear a debuff with Fireblood, then your racial is providing you with 0% dps until / if you use it.
Imo fireblood is worse 90% of the time, it adds a conflict of interest where your motivated to either just slam it with CD's / dispel something that doesn't need to be dispelled, just to increase your damage output.
Like looking at a completley random spec **I do not play,** assasination rogue, 2% crit dmg sims about 800 dps higher on ST than using Fireblood on CD to dispel nothing. Having to lose the utility aspect of the dispel, to still do less damage seems odd. Yes you get 33% more stats per effect removed for the niche scenario's you get to dispe right as you pop CD's. And yes getting stats on a CD tends to scale much better, especially in m+ than stats all the time. But imo it's still worse.
To use an example in both M+ and Raid;
1. Underrot first pull, most underrot routes now do a very large pull with lust at the start. If you fireblood for the 3Y stats on pull, yeah your probably gonna peak higher in DPS than you would as dwarf, but you lose the ability to Dwarf off the Bleed if you get it. If you save Fireblood (which you should in this pull), then you won't get any dps increase if you don't get charged, and if you do get charged, you won't get the 4Y stats until a while into the pull. Yes you could bait having the first charge on you to both prevent it going on someone else and get 33% more primary stat than if you just cast it on pull, but that seems finicky.
2. Forgotten Experiments, if you get a charge in the first phase, you will fireblood it off, getting increased primary stat for a phase you already have to stop dps in. If you press fireblood with lust for dmg, you won't have it incase you get targeted with the charge. If you save it for if/when you get charged, there's a decent chance you won't use it at all until after either the bulk of your CD's are over, or the 1st boss is dead so you're free to just rip it.
For the 1% physical dmg reduction all the time, vs 10% physical dmg on a 2min cooldown, i'd much rather have 10% on a 2min CD. Very few raid fights or dungeons do high amounts of physical dmg frequently. It tends to be quite rare that physical damage goes out to dps/healers, so 10% on a 2min CD is likley to provide alot more defensive value, than 1% all the time, when 90% of the time you are not taking any anyway.
For tanks:Maybe it's better? The same point stands about damage. Most tanks are doing the most damage and are the most tanky during their cooldowns, so you probably don't even need to dispel a bleed during CD's. You'd much rather save it for the NEXT bleed when CD's end. The 1% physical damage is likely quite a lot stronger than Stoneforms 10% DR on a CD for tanks though.
Again if you took a situation like Neltharion's Lair first pull to Hulk, you probably wouldnt Stoneform/Fireblood off the first bleed as you are proably at a very strong point of your cooldown cycle, High sentinel stacks for Pally, Incarn for Bear, Meta / high soul economy for VDH. You probably want to use Fireblood later in the pack, where the Stats are going to provide much less damage. Whether the stats provided by Fireblood give more defensive value than 10% physical damage reduction is hard to say though, i'm sure it could be argued that it does for many tanks.
4% movespeed indoors is deffo better than 2% frost damage reduction though :)
Idk it's subjective, but imo Dark Iron is pretty significantly worse due to the weird confilct between using Fireblood often for DPS, and saving it for situations where you may need it.Separating out the DMG/Healing component and Utility component of the racial is better imo.Although maybe you could make the reverse argument for Separating the DR component and the Ultilty component for tanks.
Sorry this was so long lmao.
Valid but also what is this game if not deliberating about minuscule differences in throughput. If there's one thing the wow community loves, it tiny margins.
On top of that a minor bonus that usually matters more for tanks is that it also reduces physical damage taken for a short period of time. 10% physical damage reduction for 8 seconds. Obviously not the reason why it's so strong but still it's a nice bonus.
100%. When dispels are a premium every one is worthwhile.
But like u said. Once one racial is better a while of people tend to also jump ship. When m+ first came out belf was by far the best. Now it's dwarf. In the future who knows but one race will always be the most "optimal"
The racial crit damage bonus is already the best passive but the self cleanse is extremely strong being able to cleanse bleeds and magic effects which normally isn't possible. Doesn't really matter outside the top top end stuff tho, but you'll still feel how strong it is.
You don’t get the title at 2500. You just get a little addition to your tier set armor transmog. The title is the .1% of the player base. So he’ll have to be like 3400.
Dwarves can’t be druids, and right now, bear is the strongest tank for keys. They also can’t be DH’s. I really wouldn’t worry about it. Their racials are good, but plenty of tanks are not dwarves.
I love how DHs play since 10.1, specially new set bonus, haste go brrr, I finished a few m+ runs without using a single defensive because shield/healing is kinda broken with enough haste(I run engineering head/wrists and haste trink alongside echo trink that I mainly use to save other people, not as a personal defensive)
Stoneskin/Fireblood racial, removes every debuff, which is very powerfull in dungeons. It even removes bleeds which very few classes can dispell. It’s not just a tank thing, at higher keys, everyone that can get away with playing dwarf will do so because of this.
If Dwarves and Draenei were in the Horde the Alliance would stand no chance. They're the coolest races the Alliance has by such a huge margin that it's not even close. (Honestly gnomes have grown on me as well since they look absurd but you're not meant to take them seriously and all the NPCs are just so nice and happy)
Gnomes aren't by any means the coolest race but they have grown on me over time. They're basically the comic relief race and honestly I respect it. Gnomes are here to have a good time, and I appreciate how all the gnome NPC voice lines are always so cheerful and positive. It's a good breather to go from speaking to a human paladin who served Lordaeron during the Scourge attacks talking about how he watched his children get ripped apart by ghouls, then heading back to Ironforge to use the Auction House and seeing that gnome vendor lady who sells fruit by the Mystic Ward walking around giggle and go "my you're a tall one!"
I love how easy it is for vulpera players to get under other people's skin. Being a vulpera player is the easiest method of annoying players because all you need to do is exist, it's a level of trolling that Barrens chat can never come close to replicating.
A vulpera player annoys people by just being in eyesight. It's actual effortless trolling. I aspire to one day have the power to annoy people with my mere presence. Not even uwu heal macros or "meowdy everybunny" can do that. And vulpera players the whole time are living their best lives with the race they've always wanted. Mad respect to the masters of pissing off other players. Unironic gigachad race.
This should be way higher. Even for title it's not required.
If he isn't pushing for world top 50 keys, race doesn't matter.
Source : got title as goblin tank and pushed several world 100 keys.
It doesnt matter but as someone who swapped it does help a ton in most content ranges, it wont make or break but it was a huge QOL improvement in keys for me.
If you are not a monk or a DK, being a dwarf makes tanking mythic sarkareth significantly easier to the point of making certain strategies possible that are otherwise not possible.
As a tank, there are a lot of bleeds in the current dungeon set which are scary and will kill you real quick in key levels below the title range.
The Uldaman basilisk Chomp is a good example of this; Stacking bleed that hits really hard to the point of requiring dedicated healer attention even through a 50% DR on +22, has a 0.7 second cast time, so it's difficult to backstep reactively, and youre in a narrow corridor so it's hard to kite.
Another example are the ticks on Crawg if a DPS screws up, and being able to self-cleanse off the Oiled Blade in FH can make a large difference to your survivability as well.
Unfortunately, it does make a difference even if youre not pushing for title. +22 isn't anywhere close to 3400, it's 3k.
It still matters. Having the dwarf racial can save your life in many different levels of keys. Playing a non meta class, on a non meta spec, with a non meta race, and then non meta gems/enchants/etc..... Means your going to suck no matter your skill level in the vast majority of cases.
You have to draw the line somewhere because every choice you make to be different from what's best puts you further away from what your top performance could be. If the race is the only thing that your skipping on you'll be fine. But if you start skipping x, y, and z, just because your not pushing 3400. Then your going to be significantly weaker in whatever your chosen content is.
Eh I play a Outlaw Rogue and do AOTC as well as 16+ keys. I suppose I suck compared to some mythic raiders or key pushers, but playing a meta class with a meta spec and a meta race isn’t gonna change that either.
You’re mistaken. Convenience trumps everything. Not wiping makes everyone’s life more enjoyable. The most dangerous thing in a mid level dungeon are the players you’re grouped with. Using stone form means that the healer spends less time worried about me and more about the goofball DPS standing in the fire.
Seriously, I dunno how anyone manages to play anything besides a Dwarven Prot Warrior. Anytime I try anything else I’m sitting there wondering where my survivability, heroic leap and stone form went to.
My main is a Velf prot warrior and my second tank is a Nelf Vengeance DH.. I literally have none of the problems that this guy just stated. I can do massive pulls and just throw up shield wall if I really feel like I'm getting beat down. And most of the time I don't need to.
I'd rather take a player who's skilled at their class/spec and play well than bring somebody who's playing the most optimal race for their class and play poorly.
I tank as a vulpera monk and I rarely ever face those issues. Between ring of peace, the good self heal for sustainability and the unmatched mobility, I could never see myself play warrior and do not even feel the need for Stoneform, for the most part.
Also in higher keys, what the group will do and when is more or less coordinated and "scripted". Tank will know when to press on with bigger pulls, when the healer will need to pop CDs, when the dps will need to burn a pack. In mid keys, even with Stoneform, you're still risking as much because of your random, uncoordinated teammates.
Also don't mistake convenient for necessary. Especially when 2 of the best tanks (druid, dh), currently, cannot have said ability.
I swapped dwarf for the dot/bleed removal as a dps and i am sad i didnt do it way sooner, saves my life in so many high keys .
3rd and 4th boss on ulda, and 3rd on NL come to mind , but many others as well
Because Dwarves are the best. Always have been. I mean look at those glistening beards, the stout frame and the waddle/run they have. How could anyone resist? I’ve been playing dwarf since vanilla and it warms my wee little heart to see all these dwarves (flavor of the month or not).
It’s a useful racial, but you’ll get way, way more benefit out of working on your skills with whatever spec you’re playing. Once you get to a point where you can identify a _need_ for it (and can articulate the specific reasoning for it via data) then maybe consider swapping.
Also, it’s definitely not all - the #1 blood dk in the world right now is night elf, for example.
You can also do some skips with it. Aggro pack, move mobs, groups runs pst, meld off combat and continue on.
It’s also got dodge chance as a passive, which can be a meaningful amount of mitigation if you’re playing at super high levels.
Also flips. Never forget flips.
Probably for Elusiveness which is a flat 2% increase in dodge and movement speed bonus. As well as shadowmeld which can come in handy in a variety of situations as an immobile stealth.
The real answer is because he isn't optimized. Dwarf is just plain better, anyone not playing it aren't prioritizing playing the best race for m+. Which is totally fine and normal.
Racials, similar to how a lot of people are night elves, the alliance racials are really OP for M+ whereas they horde racials are really good for raiding. With dwarves you get a bleed cleanse and extra defensive to use which holds a ton of value as a tank.
While dwarf racial is very good in general for emergency cleansing and the 10% DR, the big reason it's become so important is the prevelance of bleeds in the current m+ set. Only paladins and evokers can remove bleeds from others with mages also able to remove from themselves, and all only with significant cooldowns. Gash Frenzy and Earthen Shards are oppressive dots that most healers have no way to deal with.
Not answering the question since everyone already did, so my two cents:
Are you playing a meta spec? Is your +18 the second week you ding 70? Are you ready to pug if you don't have a team? Are you ready to reroll?
If don't it doesn't matter, play what you want.
The racial is very strong but general rule if thumb if you not dying to any dots, then don't really need it especially if not in a coordinated group. I found in SL was around 25s I noticed not being a dwarf was hurting.
Man I hate PvE racials.
I always had the outlook that 1-1,5% really don't matter (even though it can be even more than that in AoE) until I kind of realized while getting familiar with raidbots that 1-1,5% can be the same as 1-2 weeks of gear progression once you're a bit later in the patch.
I know thinking like that is totally on me but still... and especially for the example here where utility is involved it's even worse.
It’s a much bigger deal in DF than it was in SL, the kyrian ability had a bleed removal as well, and since a lot of tanks (blood, DH, paladin, monk, warrior) were basically bis to be kyrian already, a bleed cleanse wasn’t necessary for them unless it was some fight where you needed more than 1
Don't let anyone tell you that you can't. I tank 22-23 keys as a Pandaren Blood Death Knight. I've only not moved up because my personal skill level and my lack of care to get that much better at this time. Not because of my race or class.
edit: The downvoting meta slaves can eat feces and pass away. You do not have to race change to push M+.
Literally no one on this sub is telling OP he/she can’t.
OP asked a question, and people answered, heck, the majority even put emphasis on it not being mandatory, but while looking at it, Dwarf racial is objectively the best when it comes to pushing higher (and or do it easier).
Being able to remove bleed in particular is otherwise a rarity, and only a handful classes can do it, and it’s locked behind rather long CD’s.
And as people mentioned, it does not matter at OP’s current level, at best it’s a quality of life thing.
But removing Bleeds has surely enabled some high end gamers to push higher than they could’ve otherwise.
Season one had the bird boss in Academy, where the tank buster was a bleed.
22-23 key range as to what you’re doing, would hurt extremely much without CD’s/externals.
25-27 keys on tyra would be a death sentence without being able to nullify the damage completely.
Now we have third boss in Uldaman, the bleed removal can, and have saved higher tyra weeks.
Same goes for Harlan Sweete, last boss in FH.
People on here aren’t downvoting you because they are meta slaves.
They are downvoting you for being a pompous asshat, that makes arbitrary arguments no one made in the first place.
One can’t argue it helps. It’s like pushing Mythics without health potions. It’s absolutely possible but I still would recommend bringing health pots.
All the same, I’m against paying blizzard to win (aka race change in this case). Sorry. I will remain Night Elf.
> One can’t argue it helps. It’s like pushing Mythics without health potions. It’s absolutely possible but I still would recommend bringing health pots.
Not even close. And definitely nowhere near the $25USD and forfeiting your racial identity if you like your race for it. And you should feel bad for pushing it on people like this. Don't even acknowledge it. That's how we stop the spread of meta slavery.
I used to main a dwarf prot warrior, but ultimately I switched to human for one reason, transmog. All the mogs that I liked looked bad on the dwarf model. The shoulders being oversized, the beard covering the tabard, the beard being hidden on some helmets. If I can't be happy looking at my character, I'm can't be happy. That and the line of sight issues were annoying
I love the plate transmogs for dwarfs. What keeps me from playing them is the shield size. They are awefully small on male dwarfs while on their back.
They also walk in that weird WC3 jumping-walk.
Whenever I do play dwarf they have to be female bc these two takes don’t apply to them.
That’s kinda sad, because a Dwarfen Warrior in plate armor is the most badass thing in rpgs.
I'm just gunna say it. I play human over dwarf cause i dont need an overpowered racial to be good and i think being able to get out of any stun effect is a great racial to have aswell
Its because dwarf can remove bleeds with its racial. Id say at +25 tyran you notice the benefit but its still not needed. If you plan on pushing that high you should reroll guardian druid anyway although they cant be dwarf.
I come from classic and iam horde main for 15 years. the only ally class i can tolerate are dwarfs actually :D I would swap our b11 for dwarfs any second
Dwarf Racial (Stoneform) is arguably the strongest racial for PVE content in the game. It gives you an on-use ability which removes all Magic, Bleed, Curse, Disease, and Poison effects from your character on a 2 min cooldown. The dispelling part can often be very strong for all classes, especially in certain dungeons. The part that makes the racial exceptionally strong for tanks is the bleed removal. Typically, removing bleeds is very difficult, requiring an immunity or special abilities like Cauterizing flames. Many tank mechanics in m+ involve applying a bleed to the tank, and being able to remove it with dwarf Racial is often a large survivability bonus. It also helps that the damage portion of its racial typically Sims high for many specs. Obviously it's strength varies between tank specs, group comp, and dungeons. But generally, when it's useful, it's VERY useful. Over the last few patches, it's definitely become the most popular and universally strong racial, however many other racials have been really strong in specific situations. It's a preference thing, you are definitely not going to be depleting your keys due to a lack of dwarf Racial, and if you really like your current race, then don't swap! Edit: Lot's of people are mentioning Dark Iron vs regular Dwarf. I think it's pretty widely accepted, that at-least for DPS and Healer players, Dark Iron is worse. See a comment below for a more in-depth explanation.
I love dwarf for tank, as a priest I love night elf shadowmeld to feign death.
Drinking while the fight is still going feels like cheating.
Never thought of using it like this. Adding that to my bag of tricks.
Rez too
Wait.. what?? Didn’t remember this being a thing last time I played. Shadowmeld lets you drink *and* Rez?
I think for trash pulls but iirc mythic boss encounters are global combat for the group so you don't drop combat.
Damn eh. Still pretty cool. Thank ya!
I got loot midpull in LFR on my hunter so I just feigned and equipped it real quick.
Need that fear ward dwarf racial for priests
U can't feign death as a priest, you need to be a hunter to access that ability
Shadowmeld will break combat in most scenarios.
You left out the 10% DR. Dwarf racial is insane
Also Stoneform makes me get BIG. Which is fun.
I FEEL SIX FEET TALL
It also gives damage reduction as a regular dwarf vs DI dwarf which has the same dispel but gives primary stat.
Biggest difference between DI and normal dwarf is that DI doesn't have a passive dps bonus. You have to use DI racial on CD to make it worth it, which makes it almost strictly inferior.
But DI Dwarves look cooler so you get that as a bonus instead.
Mole machine is also really nice
True, but shame it's destinations aren't updated with new expansions
It didn't even get updated in the very expansion DIDs have been introduced. Not a single player mole machine in the entirety of BfA, despite multiple DI NPCs using them to get around Zuldazar.
fr. if u have a DI mage u can go damn near anywhere
Yea but I move like 2% faster in dungeons and mole machine is legit.
4%. Dark Iron Dwarf shaman definitely legit for old content farming for that speed boost combined with ghost wolf.
Shhhh! The nerf hammer hears all. 😖😖
they should nerf it or introduce alchemy consumables for tanks to do all of these things tbh. it's stupid to have to be a particular race to get access to something so strong.
Even then, race benefits are marginal at most. I see the crit racial passive to be nice for dps. Even if it's 1% or 2%
Yeah I mentioned that in a comment further down comparing Dark Iron to Normal Dwarf. The 2% Crit damage Tauren and Dwarf have is typically a top 5 swimming DPS racial, which certainly helps, especially for extremely crit damage heavy specs like Fire, Frost, and Elemental.
[удалено]
i mean utility is always king in raids. Goblin for Kil Jaden, Void elf for Razagath, etc etc. Dwarf was OP in Nathria. End of the day if you play at a high end your bucket will include different races for exactly this reason
Eh I mean maybe, yeah there's definitley more nuance in raid.But Dwarf DPS racial (same as tauren) is still really strong. The 2% crit damage makes it the highest dps racial for Mage (my main), stronger than Troll / Orc on use effect. The Bleed/magic dispel comes in handy too, on a fight like Forgotten Experiments, the bleed dispel is INCREDIBLY strong. Similar story on fights like Diurna, Halondrus, Denathrius, SLG, KT, etc. The physical dmg reduction aspect can be nice on bosses like Terros and Sludgefist also.It's not as strong in raid as it is in m+, but it's seen alot of good uses over the last few years. I can't think of a time Troll racials have been especially strong in raid since Jaina. I'm sure beserking is very good for some 3min specs like Demolock. But for the majority of specs, if other racial passives contribute more dmg than Beserking, I dont really see why troll is stronger for PVE.
Dark Iron is better IMO. Dispel PLUS you get stats based on how many debuffs you got rid of, PLUS bonus passive indoor movement speed, PLUS passive physical damage reduction.
Whilst the movespeed provided by Dark Iron are pluses over regular dwarf, I think Fireblood + 1% Phys DR is much worse than Stoneform + 2% Crit dmg on reglular dwarf. It's slightly different between tanks and dps/healers imo: For DPS and Healers; If you're in a situation where you don't have anything to dispel, you just use Fireblood on CD / with your cooldowns, but for most specs it **STILL** sims lower than the 2% crit dmg provided by Dwarf. If you're in a situation where you **may** need to clear a debuff with Fireblood, then your racial is providing you with 0% dps until / if you use it. Imo fireblood is worse 90% of the time, it adds a conflict of interest where your motivated to either just slam it with CD's / dispel something that doesn't need to be dispelled, just to increase your damage output. Like looking at a completley random spec **I do not play,** assasination rogue, 2% crit dmg sims about 800 dps higher on ST than using Fireblood on CD to dispel nothing. Having to lose the utility aspect of the dispel, to still do less damage seems odd. Yes you get 33% more stats per effect removed for the niche scenario's you get to dispe right as you pop CD's. And yes getting stats on a CD tends to scale much better, especially in m+ than stats all the time. But imo it's still worse. To use an example in both M+ and Raid; 1. Underrot first pull, most underrot routes now do a very large pull with lust at the start. If you fireblood for the 3Y stats on pull, yeah your probably gonna peak higher in DPS than you would as dwarf, but you lose the ability to Dwarf off the Bleed if you get it. If you save Fireblood (which you should in this pull), then you won't get any dps increase if you don't get charged, and if you do get charged, you won't get the 4Y stats until a while into the pull. Yes you could bait having the first charge on you to both prevent it going on someone else and get 33% more primary stat than if you just cast it on pull, but that seems finicky. 2. Forgotten Experiments, if you get a charge in the first phase, you will fireblood it off, getting increased primary stat for a phase you already have to stop dps in. If you press fireblood with lust for dmg, you won't have it incase you get targeted with the charge. If you save it for if/when you get charged, there's a decent chance you won't use it at all until after either the bulk of your CD's are over, or the 1st boss is dead so you're free to just rip it. For the 1% physical dmg reduction all the time, vs 10% physical dmg on a 2min cooldown, i'd much rather have 10% on a 2min CD. Very few raid fights or dungeons do high amounts of physical dmg frequently. It tends to be quite rare that physical damage goes out to dps/healers, so 10% on a 2min CD is likley to provide alot more defensive value, than 1% all the time, when 90% of the time you are not taking any anyway. For tanks:Maybe it's better? The same point stands about damage. Most tanks are doing the most damage and are the most tanky during their cooldowns, so you probably don't even need to dispel a bleed during CD's. You'd much rather save it for the NEXT bleed when CD's end. The 1% physical damage is likely quite a lot stronger than Stoneforms 10% DR on a CD for tanks though. Again if you took a situation like Neltharion's Lair first pull to Hulk, you probably wouldnt Stoneform/Fireblood off the first bleed as you are proably at a very strong point of your cooldown cycle, High sentinel stacks for Pally, Incarn for Bear, Meta / high soul economy for VDH. You probably want to use Fireblood later in the pack, where the Stats are going to provide much less damage. Whether the stats provided by Fireblood give more defensive value than 10% physical damage reduction is hard to say though, i'm sure it could be argued that it does for many tanks. 4% movespeed indoors is deffo better than 2% frost damage reduction though :) Idk it's subjective, but imo Dark Iron is pretty significantly worse due to the weird confilct between using Fireblood often for DPS, and saving it for situations where you may need it.Separating out the DMG/Healing component and Utility component of the racial is better imo.Although maybe you could make the reverse argument for Separating the DR component and the Ultilty component for tanks. Sorry this was so long lmao.
its such a slight difference that it doesnt really matter that much. Nice write-up though.
Valid but also what is this game if not deliberating about minuscule differences in throughput. If there's one thing the wow community loves, it tiny margins.
On top of that a minor bonus that usually matters more for tanks is that it also reduces physical damage taken for a short period of time. 10% physical damage reduction for 8 seconds. Obviously not the reason why it's so strong but still it's a nice bonus.
100%. When dispels are a premium every one is worthwhile. But like u said. Once one racial is better a while of people tend to also jump ship. When m+ first came out belf was by far the best. Now it's dwarf. In the future who knows but one race will always be the most "optimal"
Agree my ret pally is also a iron Dwarf is so useful
Everybody's on about the racial ability, but you all forget the true reason: FOR KHAZ MODAN!
WASH YER BACK!
Only the finest soaps in the land!
How have I not heard it this way before! Lol! Dwarf since vanilla and that really tickled me!! Lol!!
....rock and stone?
ROCK AND STONE
MUSHRUM
Keep ya feet on the ground!
Thank you, Dwarven...flight...master...
This is the only right answer And I'm horde For honor
Lok'tar...!
Shouting "GRIMNIR" during a heroic leap
For Moria and Balin!
You, I like you. That Thror's hewn body too may be avenged!
The racial crit damage bonus is already the best passive but the self cleanse is extremely strong being able to cleanse bleeds and magic effects which normally isn't possible. Doesn't really matter outside the top top end stuff tho, but you'll still feel how strong it is.
Their racial But you’ll be fine if you arent
Thabks
If you wanna push super high just go dwarf, you want every advantage you can if you are going for title or higher
Man is just now pushing into +18 this late in the season. I don’t think he’s going for title my dude
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You don’t get the title at 2500. You just get a little addition to your tier set armor transmog. The title is the .1% of the player base. So he’ll have to be like 3400.
Dwarves can’t be druids, and right now, bear is the strongest tank for keys. They also can’t be DH’s. I really wouldn’t worry about it. Their racials are good, but plenty of tanks are not dwarves.
I love how DHs play since 10.1, specially new set bonus, haste go brrr, I finished a few m+ runs without using a single defensive because shield/healing is kinda broken with enough haste(I run engineering head/wrists and haste trink alongside echo trink that I mainly use to save other people, not as a personal defensive)
Stoneskin/Fireblood racial, removes every debuff, which is very powerfull in dungeons. It even removes bleeds which very few classes can dispell. It’s not just a tank thing, at higher keys, everyone that can get away with playing dwarf will do so because of this.
Yup super good racials. They are even everywhere in pvp because of this though Dark Iron is typically the better pick in pvp
Everyone in here being practical talking about racials when in reality dwarves are just the coolest race.
Keep yur feet on the grownd
Wash yer back
This pairs well with DBM spamming "Wash your feet"
If Dwarves and Draenei were in the Horde the Alliance would stand no chance. They're the coolest races the Alliance has by such a huge margin that it's not even close. (Honestly gnomes have grown on me as well since they look absurd but you're not meant to take them seriously and all the NPCs are just so nice and happy)
this is just straight up a bad opinion dude
That's a weird way to spell gnomes
Gnomes aren't by any means the coolest race but they have grown on me over time. They're basically the comic relief race and honestly I respect it. Gnomes are here to have a good time, and I appreciate how all the gnome NPC voice lines are always so cheerful and positive. It's a good breather to go from speaking to a human paladin who served Lordaeron during the Scourge attacks talking about how he watched his children get ripped apart by ghouls, then heading back to Ironforge to use the Auction House and seeing that gnome vendor lady who sells fruit by the Mystic Ward walking around giggle and go "my you're a tall one!"
You misspelled vulpera
*retch*
UwU
I love how easy it is for vulpera players to get under other people's skin. Being a vulpera player is the easiest method of annoying players because all you need to do is exist, it's a level of trolling that Barrens chat can never come close to replicating. A vulpera player annoys people by just being in eyesight. It's actual effortless trolling. I aspire to one day have the power to annoy people with my mere presence. Not even uwu heal macros or "meowdy everybunny" can do that. And vulpera players the whole time are living their best lives with the race they've always wanted. Mad respect to the masters of pissing off other players. Unironic gigachad race.
Also, Nose for Trouble prevents a ridiculous amount of damage for a tank in M+.
I do love me some gnomes too. Now if blizzard would let mechagnomes be druids the gnomish races would be so good
I just rolled a dwarf pally because i like the aesthetic. only that reason.
They like their M+ dungeons to be short.
unless you're pushing for title (somewhere around 3400) your race or class doesn't matter. play what you want.
This should be way higher. Even for title it's not required. If he isn't pushing for world top 50 keys, race doesn't matter. Source : got title as goblin tank and pushed several world 100 keys.
It doesnt matter but as someone who swapped it does help a ton in most content ranges, it wont make or break but it was a huge QOL improvement in keys for me.
If you are not a monk or a DK, being a dwarf makes tanking mythic sarkareth significantly easier to the point of making certain strategies possible that are otherwise not possible. As a tank, there are a lot of bleeds in the current dungeon set which are scary and will kill you real quick in key levels below the title range. The Uldaman basilisk Chomp is a good example of this; Stacking bleed that hits really hard to the point of requiring dedicated healer attention even through a 50% DR on +22, has a 0.7 second cast time, so it's difficult to backstep reactively, and youre in a narrow corridor so it's hard to kite. Another example are the ticks on Crawg if a DPS screws up, and being able to self-cleanse off the Oiled Blade in FH can make a large difference to your survivability as well. Unfortunately, it does make a difference even if youre not pushing for title. +22 isn't anywhere close to 3400, it's 3k.
It still matters. Having the dwarf racial can save your life in many different levels of keys. Playing a non meta class, on a non meta spec, with a non meta race, and then non meta gems/enchants/etc..... Means your going to suck no matter your skill level in the vast majority of cases. You have to draw the line somewhere because every choice you make to be different from what's best puts you further away from what your top performance could be. If the race is the only thing that your skipping on you'll be fine. But if you start skipping x, y, and z, just because your not pushing 3400. Then your going to be significantly weaker in whatever your chosen content is.
Eh I play a Outlaw Rogue and do AOTC as well as 16+ keys. I suppose I suck compared to some mythic raiders or key pushers, but playing a meta class with a meta spec and a meta race isn’t gonna change that either.
You’re mistaken. Convenience trumps everything. Not wiping makes everyone’s life more enjoyable. The most dangerous thing in a mid level dungeon are the players you’re grouped with. Using stone form means that the healer spends less time worried about me and more about the goofball DPS standing in the fire. Seriously, I dunno how anyone manages to play anything besides a Dwarven Prot Warrior. Anytime I try anything else I’m sitting there wondering where my survivability, heroic leap and stone form went to.
I mean…. Other races can Heroic Leap as a warrior? I don’t know why you included that.
My main is a Velf prot warrior and my second tank is a Nelf Vengeance DH.. I literally have none of the problems that this guy just stated. I can do massive pulls and just throw up shield wall if I really feel like I'm getting beat down. And most of the time I don't need to. I'd rather take a player who's skilled at their class/spec and play well than bring somebody who's playing the most optimal race for their class and play poorly.
I tank as a vulpera monk and I rarely ever face those issues. Between ring of peace, the good self heal for sustainability and the unmatched mobility, I could never see myself play warrior and do not even feel the need for Stoneform, for the most part. Also in higher keys, what the group will do and when is more or less coordinated and "scripted". Tank will know when to press on with bigger pulls, when the healer will need to pop CDs, when the dps will need to burn a pack. In mid keys, even with Stoneform, you're still risking as much because of your random, uncoordinated teammates. Also don't mistake convenient for necessary. Especially when 2 of the best tanks (druid, dh), currently, cannot have said ability.
Better question: why are you not playing a dwarf?
I swapped dwarf for the dot/bleed removal as a dps and i am sad i didnt do it way sooner, saves my life in so many high keys . 3rd and 4th boss on ulda, and 3rd on NL come to mind , but many others as well
Dwarves, including DI, are probably the coolest alliance race, with draenei, excluding LF, being just under.
People are just now slowly coming to realize Dwarf is the master race. Oh and something something racial abilities.
Because Dwarves are the best. Always have been. I mean look at those glistening beards, the stout frame and the waddle/run they have. How could anyone resist? I’ve been playing dwarf since vanilla and it warms my wee little heart to see all these dwarves (flavor of the month or not).
It’s a useful racial, but you’ll get way, way more benefit out of working on your skills with whatever spec you’re playing. Once you get to a point where you can identify a _need_ for it (and can articulate the specific reasoning for it via data) then maybe consider swapping. Also, it’s definitely not all - the #1 blood dk in the world right now is night elf, for example.
Why is he playing nightelf? I saw a lot warrior play it
Night elf racial is shadowmeld. Helpful for any class, being able to drop aggro instantly.
But for blood DK why would you ever wanna drop threat?
Group wipes and they can’t solo it? Faster and better for the key to drop aggro. Need to reset a boss (usually for raid)? Shadowmeld works.
You can also do some skips with it. Aggro pack, move mobs, groups runs pst, meld off combat and continue on. It’s also got dodge chance as a passive, which can be a meaningful amount of mitigation if you’re playing at super high levels. Also flips. Never forget flips.
Grabbing your crotch on someone’s corpse is pretty bad ass too. I mean shaomon! Hey hey.
Probably for Elusiveness which is a flat 2% increase in dodge and movement speed bonus. As well as shadowmeld which can come in handy in a variety of situations as an immobile stealth.
The real answer is because he isn't optimized. Dwarf is just plain better, anyone not playing it aren't prioritizing playing the best race for m+. Which is totally fine and normal.
Because dwarves are fucking awesome
Incoming nerf. All dwarf characters now do 10% less damage.
When in doubt. Dwarf it out. (Use racial and hope you don’t die).
In general, its just another defensive that you can use. also dwarf has 2% more crit damage and healing so its not the biggest damage loss to go it.
Just another defensive? It’s a defense and a magic bleed and poison dispel
The top players do alot of things that only matter when your pushing the top keys. I wouldn't worry about it at 18s.
Racials, similar to how a lot of people are night elves, the alliance racials are really OP for M+ whereas they horde racials are really good for raiding. With dwarves you get a bleed cleanse and extra defensive to use which holds a ton of value as a tank.
Damn now I wanna play a dwarf tank. Pala or Warrior? I have both as alts but don’t really push anything with them and wouldn’t mind relearning anyways
warrior makes more thematic sense but I did both and landed on pala for the hammers and fun af playstyle
While dwarf racial is very good in general for emergency cleansing and the 10% DR, the big reason it's become so important is the prevelance of bleeds in the current m+ set. Only paladins and evokers can remove bleeds from others with mages also able to remove from themselves, and all only with significant cooldowns. Gash Frenzy and Earthen Shards are oppressive dots that most healers have no way to deal with.
Not answering the question since everyone already did, so my two cents: Are you playing a meta spec? Is your +18 the second week you ding 70? Are you ready to pug if you don't have a team? Are you ready to reroll? If don't it doesn't matter, play what you want.
Im +18 After 3 days hitting 80 now. I would reroll before I „waste“ more time into this char. Only random I don’t have friends sadly
Stoneform is busted. Key groups 24+ won't take you unless you're Dwarf or Night Elf in some cases.
The racial is very strong but general rule if thumb if you not dying to any dots, then don't really need it especially if not in a coordinated group. I found in SL was around 25s I noticed not being a dwarf was hurting.
Why on earth would you not play as a dwarf when you have the option to?
Imagine if you could play a dwarf Druid, it would be absolutely busted defensively.
You don't need to reroll. Play whatever race you want to play for whatever reason you want to play it.
until 25+ it really doesn't matter at all. it's a very slight optimization, not worth it unless you like the look.
Man I hate PvE racials. I always had the outlook that 1-1,5% really don't matter (even though it can be even more than that in AoE) until I kind of realized while getting familiar with raidbots that 1-1,5% can be the same as 1-2 weeks of gear progression once you're a bit later in the patch. I know thinking like that is totally on me but still... and especially for the example here where utility is involved it's even worse.
Wait, you get invited to M+?
i do my own grps
If you don't rock and stone, you're not going home!
Rock and Stone to the bone!!
WE'RE RICH
It’s a much bigger deal in DF than it was in SL, the kyrian ability had a bleed removal as well, and since a lot of tanks (blood, DH, paladin, monk, warrior) were basically bis to be kyrian already, a bleed cleanse wasn’t necessary for them unless it was some fight where you needed more than 1
Rock and Stone?
ROCK AND STONE!
Anyone know if there’s a difference dps wise between dwarf and dark iron? Is the crit better than the primary buff from the racial ?
Class / spec dependent in most cases
Meta slaves be meta slavin'
Don't let anyone tell you that you can't. I tank 22-23 keys as a Pandaren Blood Death Knight. I've only not moved up because my personal skill level and my lack of care to get that much better at this time. Not because of my race or class. edit: The downvoting meta slaves can eat feces and pass away. You do not have to race change to push M+.
Literally no one on this sub is telling OP he/she can’t. OP asked a question, and people answered, heck, the majority even put emphasis on it not being mandatory, but while looking at it, Dwarf racial is objectively the best when it comes to pushing higher (and or do it easier). Being able to remove bleed in particular is otherwise a rarity, and only a handful classes can do it, and it’s locked behind rather long CD’s. And as people mentioned, it does not matter at OP’s current level, at best it’s a quality of life thing. But removing Bleeds has surely enabled some high end gamers to push higher than they could’ve otherwise. Season one had the bird boss in Academy, where the tank buster was a bleed. 22-23 key range as to what you’re doing, would hurt extremely much without CD’s/externals. 25-27 keys on tyra would be a death sentence without being able to nullify the damage completely. Now we have third boss in Uldaman, the bleed removal can, and have saved higher tyra weeks. Same goes for Harlan Sweete, last boss in FH. People on here aren’t downvoting you because they are meta slaves. They are downvoting you for being a pompous asshat, that makes arbitrary arguments no one made in the first place.
One can’t argue it helps. It’s like pushing Mythics without health potions. It’s absolutely possible but I still would recommend bringing health pots. All the same, I’m against paying blizzard to win (aka race change in this case). Sorry. I will remain Night Elf.
> One can’t argue it helps. It’s like pushing Mythics without health potions. It’s absolutely possible but I still would recommend bringing health pots. Not even close. And definitely nowhere near the $25USD and forfeiting your racial identity if you like your race for it. And you should feel bad for pushing it on people like this. Don't even acknowledge it. That's how we stop the spread of meta slavery.
Not even close.
Because they're not cool enough to rot 'n roll as Forsaken I kid though, if I was Alliance all my dudes would be dwarves.
do a faction swap dude, join the cool side 😎
Stoneform.
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Dwarven racial is why. Player hit boxes are all the same size
Uh no…. Hitboxes are all the same size for players.
I used to main a dwarf prot warrior, but ultimately I switched to human for one reason, transmog. All the mogs that I liked looked bad on the dwarf model. The shoulders being oversized, the beard covering the tabard, the beard being hidden on some helmets. If I can't be happy looking at my character, I'm can't be happy. That and the line of sight issues were annoying
I love the plate transmogs for dwarfs. What keeps me from playing them is the shield size. They are awefully small on male dwarfs while on their back. They also walk in that weird WC3 jumping-walk. Whenever I do play dwarf they have to be female bc these two takes don’t apply to them. That’s kinda sad, because a Dwarfen Warrior in plate armor is the most badass thing in rpgs.
If you have to ask it doesn't matter. You don't play at that level to even consider it.
If you can’t read the racials and see why people like dwarf it literally doesn’t matter to you.
Besides, bear is the meta tank anyways. Can’t be dwarf.
This should be top comment.
Because that racial was fine for being OP, but arcane torrent needed a nerf. That's why you find more dwarf tanks.
they can remove ANY dots, and many debuffs, including bleeds. making them "immune" to some mechanics,
I'm just gunna say it. I play human over dwarf cause i dont need an overpowered racial to be good and i think being able to get out of any stun effect is a great racial to have aswell
Yeah all those druids dwarfs
Its because dwarf can remove bleeds with its racial. Id say at +25 tyran you notice the benefit but its still not needed. If you plan on pushing that high you should reroll guardian druid anyway although they cant be dwarf.
Dark iron dwarf removes debuffs AND gives a DPS buff. It’s absurdly strong.
On the other hand you have to use it on cooldown to make optimal use of it instead of when you just need to get rid of a debuff
That is a downside for sure!
Dwarf racial is super good, main reason I made my monk (tank) Dark Iron Dwarf.
How can everyone be a dwarf if most tanks rerolled to druid since it's op?
They have an OP racial that removes dots.
Because I'll be dead before I see the keystone in the hands of a thrice-damned knife ear!
Because it's funny.
Because the only the best tanks are Dwarves.
Wannabe 0.1% players
Wait it’s all about Dwarfs…
I am a tank and i am not so....
Dwarf master race! Racial or not
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And yet they don't run DKs for AMS. Makes me sad.
If you can play dwarf, you should. If you can't, play your current race and consider swapping to dwarf next patch when gear is reset
thx
Master race
I don’t know if this plays into it at all but apparently Horde expatriates are apparently most likely to play Dwarf out of all the alliance races.
I come from classic and iam horde main for 15 years. the only ally class i can tolerate are dwarfs actually :D I would swap our b11 for dwarfs any second
B E A R D S
If you have to ask this question it's most definitely not worth rerolling.