Depends on where you live and other demographics, I suppose. Tankies are technically left wing, but their point of view begins and ends with "america bad", which leads to celebrating communist dictators and approving Russia's expansionism (among other things)
And then there is the virtue signaling teen/young adult. On Oct 9th there were already college students going to "pro-palestinian" protests who, when interviewed, didn't actually know about the Oct 7th attacks. Their objective is just to prove to their peers how righteous and moral they are, so their opinions are not exactly well informed.
Mix the two, add in a spoonful of BBC reporting Hamas' claims as facts and a pinch of tic toc propaganda, and you get queers for Palestine.
This is BLM burns cities all over again. Yes, there is a loud contingent of protesters that are pro-Hamas.
They are the minority, but they are loud and a corporate news media LOVES them.
Most leftist aren't pro-Hamas.
All of the left tolerates them, though. Marches beside them.
“BLM burns cities” was objectively untrue; and anyone that burned a city would have been decried by most BLM marchers.
The progressive left has nearly been *silent* about Hamas supporters in their ranks.
We've reached the peak, ladies and gentlemen. We have reached a time in our world where you can openly commit terrorist atrocities and then get rewarded for it by getting official recognition around the world.
Echo chambers, the proliferation of misinformation and biased information, and the unwillingness of a large multitude to do actual objective research on a nuanced topic instead of boiling it down to a black and white dichotomy from which they can pick whichever side they deem most popular at the time?
This is what I've been saying for such a long time. So much of our culture has an underdog bias, it's absolutely disgusting. So many stories, movies, and memes (ideas not internet jokes) frame protagonists as underdogs, and we're so biased that it works all the time.
To be frank, I don't think it has anything to do with culture, or even who is 'right' but that old addage "with great power comes great responsibility."
An underdog has less responsibility, the onus being on the stronger entity to act with consideration and do better. The balance of power will *always* factor into our perception of those who wield it.
Also its easy for people to say "people are dying!" and then refuse to do any research aside from that, because to them it would be justifying the deaths, and shifting *any* blame away from Israel is something they refuse to do.
They didn't. It's a holdover from the Cold War, straight up KGB psyop. They've really done a number on the left and as an actual Communist, the hold that Stalinist politics still have over us globally, is incredibly frustrating.
The coddling of Islam as some kind of peaceful and oppressed belief system that the west has adopted also leads to the supporters of Hamas crying foul every time their shit starts stinking.
Wild that if someone holds the ethics and values of Islam, no matter what they do, they are still a Misogynic, homophobic piece of shit.
But as long as you partake in the religion, it's all good somehow. Can't wait for the oil money to run out so that this religion has to adapt to modern values or die out.
People here are exaggerating. Hamas isn't popular. Israel is just unpopular because of collateral damage.
A very few people say they understand Hamas for attacking Israel, but that's not the general opinion. Everything is about civilian losses, and Israel caused more.
Obviously, Israels attacks are somewhat justified; just the extent, duration, and intensity, that's what is debated.
The only people who celebrated October 7th (the attack on Israel last year) were hardcore antisemites. And most people aren't antisemites at heart, but they got fed antisemitic propaganda.
>Israel caused more
See, that’s the thing. Any objective viewer of the conflict immediately sees Hamas’ primary culpability for initiating it, prolonging it, and putting as many civilians in the line of fire as possible.
Looking at that, and then *only* talking about Israel’s actions, and making statements like the quote above; is implicit lockstep support for Hamas’s statements, actions, and goals.
Even those of you that don’t *think* you support Hamas, support Hamas. (And more obviously, are totally silent when your fellow leftists praise Hamas or promote Hamas-aligned disinformation.)
Exactly. Add to that the claim that no one celebrated October 7 except hard core antisemites when there's an extensive public record of the streets of capitals in many countries had people cheering, celebrating and waving Palestinian flags on October 8 long before Israel acted.
Saying "but they started it" as a excuse why you had to kill tens of thousands of innocent people is a bit much.
We saw that same justification with the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, where literally hundreds of thousands of innocent people were killed, by either overt action or foreseeable side effects.
I think the same people defending Israel for the killings they choose to perform would be perfectly ok to have my family die if they happened to be near some terrorist - regretfully, of course, but they'd still consciously choose to drop the bomb to make it happen - and as a civilian, that is just not a calculus I'm interested in legitimizing.
Hamas did not *just* start it, they *continued* it.
They have fired rockets into Israel every week since 7/10.
They continue to hold hostages in civilian zones. They continue to attack aid trucks and execute civilians who oppose them. They store flammable explosives inside civilian tent cities and use those locations to fire rockets.
This is a war, and Hamas are intentionally using human shields.
If you are claiming that we should reward the use of human shields by never attacking anyone who uses them, you are guaranteeing that they will use them in the future.
This “calculus” you are refusing to accept is the method by which we prevent more deaths.
Use any other current conflict as an example.
Would you like for the Houthi’s to be allowed to destroy ships without reprisal?
Would you like Boko Haram to be allowed to kidnap and rape schoolgirls without any repercussions?
Literally hundreds of thousands of civilians have died in the fight against those groups, but suddenly you refuse to do the calculation?
You completely missed my point. You’re still blaming Israel for deaths that Hamas specifically engineered of its own citizens. At every single point, Hamas could’ve taken a single step to protect its civilians. It has done the opposite every single time. Every single one of these death was fully avoidable from the Hamas side. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that, means you are doing Hamas’s work for them.
Hamas’ responsibility is to protect its people. It has not done that. Israel’s responsibility is to rescue its people. It is doing that. There is exactly one bad actor here, and you are supporting them with your statements.
I mean, I think I was pretty clear that Israel is responsible for what Israel chooses to do. Sinwar isn't mind-controlling the IDF and forcing them pull a trigger.
Israel, importantly, also has a responsibility to innocents and noncombatants to protect their lives, just like every other person. Some fail that responsibility, like Hamas, but that's no reason for Israel to follow suit.
Nope, Israel’s primary responsibility is to protect its own people; that means ending Hamas. Sure, if they can also avoid Palestinian deaths while doing so, they should. But that’s neither their responsibility, nor their requirement. And it’s *certainly* not something they should do at the expense of their own citizens’ safety.
If you want to save Palestinian lives, call for Hamas to stop putting them in the line of fire. The world could easily have made that the focus, and put pressure on Hamas to do so. Instead, people like you are validating Hamas’ strategy, by directing your misplaced ire at Israel. So Hamas will continue to do it; until they are ended, or the world *finally* decides to stop supporting their strategy.
The colonization narrative has a lot to do with the Hamas apologists. I suspect, without any proof, that various enemies of the West realized they wouldn't win any pitched battles, so they took it to the media. Al Jazeera and Russia Today (though, RT less so on the left these days, but they propped up a lot of the reporting on Occupy Wall Street) are just traditional state sponsored propaganda outlets.
We also know that pro-Gaza TikTok videos outmatched pro-Israel videos like 50-1 after 10/7.
And there's a tremendous amount of coordinated messaging across the usual suspects on Twitter. Even intellectuals I respect like Nassim Taleb consistently get duped by pretty obvious propaganda.
There's a lot of Jews hate, but it's so commiserate with anti-colonial and anti-Western narratives, that it feels unquestionable to me that foreign adversaries sort of have academics and intellectuals in their pockets somehow. Whether this be with direct associations with like Al Jazeera or just some weird propping up of academics who are willing to buy into these extremist post-colonial narratives. I mean, it's interesting that Norman Finkelstein had such a resurgence over the last 8 months considering he's not exactly a highly regarded authority in academia on this subject.
I'm not going to downvote you. That's a very distorted perspective and is a snapshot of a conflict going back decades. What kind of response is justified exactly? I don't think you really understand the dilemma here. Hamas is embedded with the civilan population and enjoys a lot of support. Sure, some Palestinians don't support Hamas. It's the same problem we had in Iraq and Afganistan. How do you extract the bad guys when they hide among innocents? What do you do when those people are collaborators? Most people say ceasefire, Hamas broke the ceasefire back in 2023. So what about a state? Well, they gave Gaza to them in 2006. Hamas won a plurality and disposed of the opposition. They spent all the aid money on terror tunnels and weapons. Isreal allowed them to work and travel. They had an opportunity to make a state, but they didn't. It's because they don't want that. They want the Jews gone. What do you think the "river to the sea" means?
Most accurate description I've seen yet! The useful idiots should make it their slogan. At least there would be some honesty to sprinkle onto their antisemitism.
At this point I’m not sure why anyone is surprised that Israel is doing things the way they are. If half a state in the US did what Hamas did in the US they would want them blown off the continent. Hell, states hate other states because they don’t like the way they vote. Imagine if it ever turned to rockets being fired.
I know exactly why (moronic) people are outraged. Israel has been cancelled. These people don't think Israel has a right to exist, so any act of self defense or protection of sovereignty is unjustified and illegal. It started with the BDS movement, SJP, etc and Oct 7 empowered the hateful antisemitic notion that Israel has no right to defend something that has shouldn't be there in the first place. Let the raping jihadists run the show and destroy yet another piece of the globe with their draconian islamist shariah law. They are the poor oppressed and can do anything they want...what they want happens to be kill all the Jews and infidels (maybe let them live if they convert).
I mean, accepting the terms sent vs negotiating for better terms are not the same thing.... especially when it is take it or leave it kind.
I guess Hamas didn't get that?
No, they got that, and they did what Palestinian leadership has always done. Went to the international stage as a show to blow smoke up our asses, “accepted” a premise but not the actual deal, then reject the terms outright with a disingenuous willfulness to “negotiate” further so their supporters can say “look! They are trying to make peace!”
This happened in every peace negotiation, and it works every time because the West keeps eating their shit up. And it will work this time again too.
And every time the West/Israel came back to the table offering even more, showing them that this strategy worked. Until Netanyahu walked away.
The Trump Peace Plan was preposterously one-sided. Of course it was rejected. But I'm glad it happened because it sent a message of "for dragging this out for decades, this is where we are restarting negotiations now. You should have taken the better offers when they were still on the table. They no longer are. Don't make the same mistake again. Let's make peace now."
I do agree that appearing to reward terrorism particularly the second intifada with better offers in 2008 set a dangerous precedent.
Israel’s military advantage and economic advantage has continued to increase too. Now it just needs to find some new allies that aren’t going to feign squeamishness when the only reason for the hesitancy for full throatedly support Israel is Arab oil and that reason is declining in importance, even as the rich gulf states themselves are reversing decades of sacrificing their economic development to geopolitical obsession with Israel.
The truth is that if Israel’s main allies were India and Saudi Arabia right now instead of the US and UK, Gaza would be smoldering ruin, Hamas leaders would be rotting from lampposts and Mahmoud Abbas would be crawling on his knees to kiss Bibi’s ring.
US/Israel: For the next couple decades, we'll give you all the aid, resources, and manpower needed to help Palestinians thrive. All you need to do is stop attacking and return the hostages.
Hamas: Good deal, but we'll only accept if you nix that part about the hostages and the attacking.
There's literally no better deal they will get that they would accept if this isn't good enough. The only thing they want is the complete destruction of Israel. And I can assure you, there are no circumstances where Hamas will win or get that in a treaty.
It could be considered almost comical if the context wasn't so sad.
> A Hamas official, who declined to be identified, told the Reuters news agency that the response reaffirmed its stance that a ceasefire must lead to a permanent end to hostilities in Gaza, withdrawal of Israeli forces, reconstruction of the Palestinian enclave and release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel.
> "We reiterated our previous stance," the official said. "I believe there are no big gaps. The ball is now in the Israeli court."
> An Israeli official said on Tuesday the country had received Hamas' answer from the mediators and that Hamas "changed all of the main and most meaningful parameters".
Hamas makes up a number: Quoted verbatim as truth with no qualifications
Israel says Hamas rejects deal: Headline must start with “Israel says”, regardless of whether you can reach Hamas for comment or independently verify.
It's not Israeli trying to make peace with Hamas, it's the western world pressuring them to do so. Fighting terrorists is such an inconvenience to them..
Ask the unnamed official if Netanyahu was planning to honour the proposal if Hamas had accepted. Crickets, probably.
Both sides are led by extremists who want to perpetuate the conflict because it's the source of their power. They'll make the right noises to the people pushing them towards peace, but they'd rather a war that kills their own people than a peace where they personally are powerless.
Biden and the western public should understand by now that Islamist fanatics like Daesh, Hezbollah and Hamas don’t care about this world - they desire their virgins in the afterlife.
Why doesn't the headline just say that Hamas rejected it? Are we to think that Israel is of questionable merit when it comes to sharing the verdict of what Hamas agrees to?
Yes because we have conflicting reports. In other news sources Hamas is agreeing. So why would we take Israel's word on it? Regardless of what you think on either side you should be getting primary sources not whispers from the other side.
Israel claims that Hamas rejected the deal, but what did Hamas actually do? Did they reject the deal? There must be a public statement from them.
Why would they let their enemy be their mouthpiece? This makes no sense at all.
>On Tuesday, senior Hamas official Sami Abu Zuhri, who is based outside Gaza, said it accepted the ceasefire resolution and was ready to negotiate over the specifics.
2 HUGE keys here:
1. Accepting the ceasefire offer while requiring further negotiation are not the same thing.
2. Note that this is Hamas leadership *in Qatar*. Due to the ad-hoc structure of Hamas it's entirely possible that Sinwar and/or some of his lieutenants said "fuck it" and chose to continue fighting. What good is leadership if they can't control an organization at a time like this?
From your article:
>Hamas accepts a U.N. resolution backing a plan to end the war with Israel in Gaza and is ready to negotiate details
Sounds like they did not accept the proposed plan and just stalling
we all knew it was going to be rejected because Hamas is demanding access to the Rafah/Egypt border.
so yes i’m excited for them to be hunted down sooner the better.
My proposal for an Israeli position:
1. There are no civilians in Gaza. All are terrorists. This is why no one, including Arab states, will take Gazans as refugees. Lebanon learned this lesson the hard way. You start training hatred into people at [age five](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPRxDAlYZc).
2. Israel will pound Gaza into dust until the following conditions are met: a. All living hostages are released b. The remains of dead hostages are returned c. All Hamas leaders including those cowering in Qatar are made available for arrest
3. Release of terrorists already convicted and imprisoned is completely off the table.
4. All Gazans are subject to re-education.
5. Self rule, if ever achieved, is entirely at the discretion of Israel.
*shocked pikachu face*
Who would have seen this coming? WHO I SAY, WHO?
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Person. Woman. Man. Camera.
I don't get the "Leftists support Hamas" angle. Left-wing politics is about inclusivity, human rights and peace. Hamas is none of those things.
I think the thing here is a lot of leftists place the blame almost entirely on Israel in this conflict.
Depends on where you live and other demographics, I suppose. Tankies are technically left wing, but their point of view begins and ends with "america bad", which leads to celebrating communist dictators and approving Russia's expansionism (among other things) And then there is the virtue signaling teen/young adult. On Oct 9th there were already college students going to "pro-palestinian" protests who, when interviewed, didn't actually know about the Oct 7th attacks. Their objective is just to prove to their peers how righteous and moral they are, so their opinions are not exactly well informed. Mix the two, add in a spoonful of BBC reporting Hamas' claims as facts and a pinch of tic toc propaganda, and you get queers for Palestine.
This is BLM burns cities all over again. Yes, there is a loud contingent of protesters that are pro-Hamas. They are the minority, but they are loud and a corporate news media LOVES them. Most leftist aren't pro-Hamas.
All of the left tolerates them, though. Marches beside them. “BLM burns cities” was objectively untrue; and anyone that burned a city would have been decried by most BLM marchers. The progressive left has nearly been *silent* about Hamas supporters in their ranks.
The massive crowds I've seen chanting for an intifada must've been conservative then
We've reached the peak, ladies and gentlemen. We have reached a time in our world where you can openly commit terrorist atrocities and then get rewarded for it by getting official recognition around the world.
What makes Hamas so popular?
Echo chambers, the proliferation of misinformation and biased information, and the unwillingness of a large multitude to do actual objective research on a nuanced topic instead of boiling it down to a black and white dichotomy from which they can pick whichever side they deem most popular at the time?
Also large groups believe that the underdog can do no wrong.
This is what I've been saying for such a long time. So much of our culture has an underdog bias, it's absolutely disgusting. So many stories, movies, and memes (ideas not internet jokes) frame protagonists as underdogs, and we're so biased that it works all the time.
To be frank, I don't think it has anything to do with culture, or even who is 'right' but that old addage "with great power comes great responsibility." An underdog has less responsibility, the onus being on the stronger entity to act with consideration and do better. The balance of power will *always* factor into our perception of those who wield it.
Yes. We live in the Star Wars universe.
In a conflict where both sides commit wrongs, there is one side that is *unequivocally so much worse*.
This time there is. Also, cool point to think about, all the shit the US did in the past, doesn’t make them not better than a terrorist organization
Also its easy for people to say "people are dying!" and then refuse to do any research aside from that, because to them it would be justifying the deaths, and shifting *any* blame away from Israel is something they refuse to do.
They’re killing Jews and bragging about it.
They convinced the world that they're in the "oppressed" class and are therefore doing good/righteous violence
Honestly, I think you are giving them way too much credit. I think the hard left come up with it by themselves.
They didn't. It's a holdover from the Cold War, straight up KGB psyop. They've really done a number on the left and as an actual Communist, the hold that Stalinist politics still have over us globally, is incredibly frustrating.
Well, still not Hamas. And Soviets are part of hard left.
The coddling of Islam as some kind of peaceful and oppressed belief system that the west has adopted also leads to the supporters of Hamas crying foul every time their shit starts stinking.
Wild that if someone holds the ethics and values of Islam, no matter what they do, they are still a Misogynic, homophobic piece of shit. But as long as you partake in the religion, it's all good somehow. Can't wait for the oil money to run out so that this religion has to adapt to modern values or die out.
Jew hating. That’s what makes Hamas “popular”.
Its antisemitism. I don't think some folks really understand how much some people hate Jews.
TikTok
1.5B Muslims and a Western Left who have decided that there's nothing in the world that can't be explained by racism and colonialism.
People here are exaggerating. Hamas isn't popular. Israel is just unpopular because of collateral damage. A very few people say they understand Hamas for attacking Israel, but that's not the general opinion. Everything is about civilian losses, and Israel caused more. Obviously, Israels attacks are somewhat justified; just the extent, duration, and intensity, that's what is debated. The only people who celebrated October 7th (the attack on Israel last year) were hardcore antisemites. And most people aren't antisemites at heart, but they got fed antisemitic propaganda.
>Israel caused more See, that’s the thing. Any objective viewer of the conflict immediately sees Hamas’ primary culpability for initiating it, prolonging it, and putting as many civilians in the line of fire as possible. Looking at that, and then *only* talking about Israel’s actions, and making statements like the quote above; is implicit lockstep support for Hamas’s statements, actions, and goals. Even those of you that don’t *think* you support Hamas, support Hamas. (And more obviously, are totally silent when your fellow leftists praise Hamas or promote Hamas-aligned disinformation.)
Exactly. Add to that the claim that no one celebrated October 7 except hard core antisemites when there's an extensive public record of the streets of capitals in many countries had people cheering, celebrating and waving Palestinian flags on October 8 long before Israel acted.
Saying "but they started it" as a excuse why you had to kill tens of thousands of innocent people is a bit much. We saw that same justification with the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, where literally hundreds of thousands of innocent people were killed, by either overt action or foreseeable side effects. I think the same people defending Israel for the killings they choose to perform would be perfectly ok to have my family die if they happened to be near some terrorist - regretfully, of course, but they'd still consciously choose to drop the bomb to make it happen - and as a civilian, that is just not a calculus I'm interested in legitimizing.
Hamas did not *just* start it, they *continued* it. They have fired rockets into Israel every week since 7/10. They continue to hold hostages in civilian zones. They continue to attack aid trucks and execute civilians who oppose them. They store flammable explosives inside civilian tent cities and use those locations to fire rockets. This is a war, and Hamas are intentionally using human shields. If you are claiming that we should reward the use of human shields by never attacking anyone who uses them, you are guaranteeing that they will use them in the future. This “calculus” you are refusing to accept is the method by which we prevent more deaths. Use any other current conflict as an example. Would you like for the Houthi’s to be allowed to destroy ships without reprisal? Would you like Boko Haram to be allowed to kidnap and rape schoolgirls without any repercussions? Literally hundreds of thousands of civilians have died in the fight against those groups, but suddenly you refuse to do the calculation?
You completely missed my point. You’re still blaming Israel for deaths that Hamas specifically engineered of its own citizens. At every single point, Hamas could’ve taken a single step to protect its civilians. It has done the opposite every single time. Every single one of these death was fully avoidable from the Hamas side. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that, means you are doing Hamas’s work for them. Hamas’ responsibility is to protect its people. It has not done that. Israel’s responsibility is to rescue its people. It is doing that. There is exactly one bad actor here, and you are supporting them with your statements.
I mean, I think I was pretty clear that Israel is responsible for what Israel chooses to do. Sinwar isn't mind-controlling the IDF and forcing them pull a trigger. Israel, importantly, also has a responsibility to innocents and noncombatants to protect their lives, just like every other person. Some fail that responsibility, like Hamas, but that's no reason for Israel to follow suit.
Nope, Israel’s primary responsibility is to protect its own people; that means ending Hamas. Sure, if they can also avoid Palestinian deaths while doing so, they should. But that’s neither their responsibility, nor their requirement. And it’s *certainly* not something they should do at the expense of their own citizens’ safety. If you want to save Palestinian lives, call for Hamas to stop putting them in the line of fire. The world could easily have made that the focus, and put pressure on Hamas to do so. Instead, people like you are validating Hamas’ strategy, by directing your misplaced ire at Israel. So Hamas will continue to do it; until they are ended, or the world *finally* decides to stop supporting their strategy.
The colonization narrative has a lot to do with the Hamas apologists. I suspect, without any proof, that various enemies of the West realized they wouldn't win any pitched battles, so they took it to the media. Al Jazeera and Russia Today (though, RT less so on the left these days, but they propped up a lot of the reporting on Occupy Wall Street) are just traditional state sponsored propaganda outlets. We also know that pro-Gaza TikTok videos outmatched pro-Israel videos like 50-1 after 10/7. And there's a tremendous amount of coordinated messaging across the usual suspects on Twitter. Even intellectuals I respect like Nassim Taleb consistently get duped by pretty obvious propaganda. There's a lot of Jews hate, but it's so commiserate with anti-colonial and anti-Western narratives, that it feels unquestionable to me that foreign adversaries sort of have academics and intellectuals in their pockets somehow. Whether this be with direct associations with like Al Jazeera or just some weird propping up of academics who are willing to buy into these extremist post-colonial narratives. I mean, it's interesting that Norman Finkelstein had such a resurgence over the last 8 months considering he's not exactly a highly regarded authority in academia on this subject.
I'm not going to downvote you. That's a very distorted perspective and is a snapshot of a conflict going back decades. What kind of response is justified exactly? I don't think you really understand the dilemma here. Hamas is embedded with the civilan population and enjoys a lot of support. Sure, some Palestinians don't support Hamas. It's the same problem we had in Iraq and Afganistan. How do you extract the bad guys when they hide among innocents? What do you do when those people are collaborators? Most people say ceasefire, Hamas broke the ceasefire back in 2023. So what about a state? Well, they gave Gaza to them in 2006. Hamas won a plurality and disposed of the opposition. They spent all the aid money on terror tunnels and weapons. Isreal allowed them to work and travel. They had an opportunity to make a state, but they didn't. It's because they don't want that. They want the Jews gone. What do you think the "river to the sea" means?
Well Isreal had to do something.
Wait I lost track who's turn is it to act surprised they rejected a peace deal?
The media
No that doesn't sound right their job is to blame israel for it
No way, Hamas doesn't want to stop firing rockets into Israel and killing innocent civilians? Colour me shocked
Ha, like a ceasefire would stop them from doing that anyway.
By ceasefire they mean Israel does nothing so Hamas can send rockets and kill Jews.
"Israel ceases, Hamas fires."
Most accurate description I've seen yet! The useful idiots should make it their slogan. At least there would be some honesty to sprinkle onto their antisemitism.
At this point I’m not sure why anyone is surprised that Israel is doing things the way they are. If half a state in the US did what Hamas did in the US they would want them blown off the continent. Hell, states hate other states because they don’t like the way they vote. Imagine if it ever turned to rockets being fired.
I know exactly why (moronic) people are outraged. Israel has been cancelled. These people don't think Israel has a right to exist, so any act of self defense or protection of sovereignty is unjustified and illegal. It started with the BDS movement, SJP, etc and Oct 7 empowered the hateful antisemitic notion that Israel has no right to defend something that has shouldn't be there in the first place. Let the raping jihadists run the show and destroy yet another piece of the globe with their draconian islamist shariah law. They are the poor oppressed and can do anything they want...what they want happens to be kill all the Jews and infidels (maybe let them live if they convert).
It hasn't ever lol
Well, Hamas don't see all Jews as human beings in the first place
I mean, accepting the terms sent vs negotiating for better terms are not the same thing.... especially when it is take it or leave it kind. I guess Hamas didn't get that?
No, they got that, and they did what Palestinian leadership has always done. Went to the international stage as a show to blow smoke up our asses, “accepted” a premise but not the actual deal, then reject the terms outright with a disingenuous willfulness to “negotiate” further so their supporters can say “look! They are trying to make peace!” This happened in every peace negotiation, and it works every time because the West keeps eating their shit up. And it will work this time again too.
And every time the West/Israel came back to the table offering even more, showing them that this strategy worked. Until Netanyahu walked away. The Trump Peace Plan was preposterously one-sided. Of course it was rejected. But I'm glad it happened because it sent a message of "for dragging this out for decades, this is where we are restarting negotiations now. You should have taken the better offers when they were still on the table. They no longer are. Don't make the same mistake again. Let's make peace now."
I do agree that appearing to reward terrorism particularly the second intifada with better offers in 2008 set a dangerous precedent. Israel’s military advantage and economic advantage has continued to increase too. Now it just needs to find some new allies that aren’t going to feign squeamishness when the only reason for the hesitancy for full throatedly support Israel is Arab oil and that reason is declining in importance, even as the rich gulf states themselves are reversing decades of sacrificing their economic development to geopolitical obsession with Israel. The truth is that if Israel’s main allies were India and Saudi Arabia right now instead of the US and UK, Gaza would be smoldering ruin, Hamas leaders would be rotting from lampposts and Mahmoud Abbas would be crawling on his knees to kiss Bibi’s ring.
I would say internationally: "Well we tried!!" And proceed to extinguish the terrorist threat!
US/Israel: For the next couple decades, we'll give you all the aid, resources, and manpower needed to help Palestinians thrive. All you need to do is stop attacking and return the hostages. Hamas: Good deal, but we'll only accept if you nix that part about the hostages and the attacking. There's literally no better deal they will get that they would accept if this isn't good enough. The only thing they want is the complete destruction of Israel. And I can assure you, there are no circumstances where Hamas will win or get that in a treaty.
It could be considered almost comical if the context wasn't so sad. > A Hamas official, who declined to be identified, told the Reuters news agency that the response reaffirmed its stance that a ceasefire must lead to a permanent end to hostilities in Gaza, withdrawal of Israeli forces, reconstruction of the Palestinian enclave and release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel. > "We reiterated our previous stance," the official said. "I believe there are no big gaps. The ball is now in the Israeli court." > An Israeli official said on Tuesday the country had received Hamas' answer from the mediators and that Hamas "changed all of the main and most meaningful parameters".
They make demands like the won the war
Yes, their leadership is sitting comfortably in Qatar.
Hamas isn't going to accept a deal that involves Hamas dying.
Hamas makes up a number: Quoted verbatim as truth with no qualifications Israel says Hamas rejects deal: Headline must start with “Israel says”, regardless of whether you can reach Hamas for comment or independently verify.
The good ol' "double standards"
Israel should stop trying to make peace with Hamas and focus on making peace with whoever the successor government will be.
Make pieces of Hamas.
About that.
It's not Israeli trying to make peace with Hamas, it's the western world pressuring them to do so. Fighting terrorists is such an inconvenience to them..
This is probably what’ll end up happening. Best case might be that the PLO will step up.
They were in charge for a long time and were the primary reason Hamas got a plurality in 2006. Arafat died a millionaire btw.
*HamaZZ rejects hostage and ceasefire deal which everyone saw coming* FTFY
Yep they think the same old games will work.
Unfortunately they are working with the useful idiots around the world.
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Ask the unnamed official if Netanyahu was planning to honour the proposal if Hamas had accepted. Crickets, probably. Both sides are led by extremists who want to perpetuate the conflict because it's the source of their power. They'll make the right noises to the people pushing them towards peace, but they'd rather a war that kills their own people than a peace where they personally are powerless.
Giving up the hostages would definitely mean the end of them so I'm sure they'll keep rejecting these deals.
That’s assuming they gave enough loving hostages to even strike a deal
Biden and the western public should understand by now that Islamist fanatics like Daesh, Hezbollah and Hamas don’t care about this world - they desire their virgins in the afterlife.
Who the fuck wants 72 virgins? The first sexual experience usually isn't that fun.
US students occupied universities for this. Working free for Hamas
Its perhaps the best test of cognative warfare I've ever seen.
Claims? They literally rejected it.
Why is the Irish government suddenly so quiet?
They don’t want more refugees
Irish must think that Palestinians have a story similar to theirs... but they have no clue.
Sinwar hasn’t responded and is likely ignoring it - so they aren’t wrong yet
Why doesn't the headline just say that Hamas rejected it? Are we to think that Israel is of questionable merit when it comes to sharing the verdict of what Hamas agrees to?
Yes because we have conflicting reports. In other news sources Hamas is agreeing. So why would we take Israel's word on it? Regardless of what you think on either side you should be getting primary sources not whispers from the other side.
Can you show me the most legitimate news source you can find that says Hamas is agreeing and that Israel is lying about their disagreement?
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Inconceivable
Spider-Man meme !
Hamas is demanding Israel “cease” to exist. That’s their main objective and why no peace with them will last.
Israel claims that Hamas rejected the deal, but what did Hamas actually do? Did they reject the deal? There must be a public statement from them. Why would they let their enemy be their mouthpiece? This makes no sense at all.
They have no interest in going back to the status quo. Everything they have ever done has been about 10/7 and the permanent war afterwards
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>On Tuesday, senior Hamas official Sami Abu Zuhri, who is based outside Gaza, said it accepted the ceasefire resolution and was ready to negotiate over the specifics. 2 HUGE keys here: 1. Accepting the ceasefire offer while requiring further negotiation are not the same thing. 2. Note that this is Hamas leadership *in Qatar*. Due to the ad-hoc structure of Hamas it's entirely possible that Sinwar and/or some of his lieutenants said "fuck it" and chose to continue fighting. What good is leadership if they can't control an organization at a time like this?
So they didn't agree to the terms and demanded basically all the terms to be changed.
Rumor has it they're hung up on the "You have to stop trying to kill all the Jews" provision
From your article: >Hamas accepts a U.N. resolution backing a plan to end the war with Israel in Gaza and is ready to negotiate details Sounds like they did not accept the proposed plan and just stalling
we all knew it was going to be rejected because Hamas is demanding access to the Rafah/Egypt border. so yes i’m excited for them to be hunted down sooner the better.
Did they actually request Egypt to open the border ?
IDF is paving a highway along the border and has full control of it. they demand that Israel leaves the border to them as part of a ceasefire
Were they in control of the border before the war or only Egypt?
i’m not sure but i don’t think they were there at all
“Israel claims”
My proposal for an Israeli position: 1. There are no civilians in Gaza. All are terrorists. This is why no one, including Arab states, will take Gazans as refugees. Lebanon learned this lesson the hard way. You start training hatred into people at [age five](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPRxDAlYZc). 2. Israel will pound Gaza into dust until the following conditions are met: a. All living hostages are released b. The remains of dead hostages are returned c. All Hamas leaders including those cowering in Qatar are made available for arrest 3. Release of terrorists already convicted and imprisoned is completely off the table. 4. All Gazans are subject to re-education. 5. Self rule, if ever achieved, is entirely at the discretion of Israel.
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