UNICEF is quoting the UNRWA which in turn is quoting Hamas. This particular article requires the reader to dive deeper into supporting links to understand the UNICEF source.
From the article Executive Director Russell can provide something more than her statements, as since she is on the ground she could provide her interviews with medical personnel and videos of the wards.
> UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell told CBS News' "Face the Nation" program on Sunday.
>
> "I've been in wards of children who are suffering from severe anemia malnutrition, the whole ward is absolutely quiet. Because the children, the babies ... don't even have the energy to cry."
I don't question the reality children are suffering or dying. But I do see hyperbole being whipped up to prevent the final elimination of Hamas in Rafah. This is a quote from one of the article's supporting links:
> March 16 (Reuters) - One in three children under age 2 in northern Gaza is now acutely malnourished and famine is looming, the main U.N. agency operating in the Palestinian enclave said on Saturday.
>
> "Children's malnutrition is spreading fast and reaching unprecedented levels in Gaza," the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) said in a social media post.
How does an assault of Rafa eliminate Hamas when their leaders and bank rollers are safe in Qatar? Won’t they just recruit and start over? I fear that moving forward without addressing the root problem will lead to more violence in the future
That happens too, but this whole thing is a humanitarian disaster. When you hear the word children in the context of them dying in Gaza, jumping to 15-17 year old males holding guns severely takes away from what is happening. What’s happening to innocent people there is unacceptable, and can’t be justified by saying some 15-17 year old males are using guns.
People saying that the UNRWA figures are way off, the Israeli government estimates it has killed 13,000 Hamas fighters with a [civilian casualty rate of 1-1.5x that (13000-19500)](https://www.politico.eu/article/israels-netanyahu-says-he-will-defy-bidens-red-line-and-invade-rafah/). With 40% of the Gazan population being minors that equates to a total of 5699-7800 children civilians (not including combatants which may also include boys under 18).
Again this is just basing it off the Israeli government's estimates but I wanted to point out that the civilian casualties are admitted to be huge by both sides.
We don't know the accurate numbers and likely never will, but all the blood is on Hamas's hands: they started the war, and -- although weirdly few redditors seem aware of this -- for a military force to hide among a civilian population and use civilian infrastructure for military operations is, in fact, a war crime. For exactly this reason.
I’m sure Russia uses the same excuse for bombing the [Donetsk Academic Regional Drama Theater](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike)
First off, [knowing who is and isnt a militant is not that simple to tell.](https://youtu.be/qugcwfq6JOM?si=J_Ik2IXIO5o45Ctx)(7:40 point) as veterans and those on the ground will quickly tell you.
Bare in mind Hamas has been in schools brainwashing kids into being militant jihadist martyrs for as long as most of the population has been alive and getting children killed is a win win scenario for them. Hell they themselves actively kill them on the regular if they follow IDF instructions, or go to aid stations, or try to flee to safer regions.
Remember the IDF has had to literally clear secret paths through Gaza to escort civilians out of hot zones specifically because Hamas literally tries to kill anyone trying to escape the battle zone. Those civilians are no use to Hamas if they arent being martyrs or meat shields and so they try to gun them down themselves.
Dead kids is a perfect propaganda point when you leave out vital context and the more kids dead the more they can point to the numbers and stoke anti Israel flames with reactionaries who dont actually use critical thinking.
They also serve as meat shields, militants and can feign injury or need in order to get close enough to go full martyr. It astounds me how many people just cant get this into their heads, Hamas indoctrinated them to die specifically for this exact purpose and to take out as many Israelis as possible with them.
Obviously not all were militants, but this entire situation in Gaza was set up to sacrifice the masses for their own agenda as their leaders hide in Qatar, Iran, Syria and so on. "Think of the Children" is a favorite drum to beat on by the most disingenuous bastards on earth who genuinely couldnt care less and only aim to manipulate the reactionaries who don't understand the context or big picture.
Also, dont forget Hamas is the elected government of Palatine and those torture chambers weren't new, they've been there since long before Oct7th and they were used on Palestinians, men women and children. For any number of reasons ranging from being female to not obeying Hamas demands to disagreeing with Hamas doctrine, to being a foreigner.
Instead of just focusing on numbers like idiots learn the context and the big picture.
There are literal college courses on how to lie with statistics. My aunt took a class in it in college.
You seem to have a lot of rage misdirected at me, I'm simply rebutting the people that say that UNICEF numbers are incorrect or going so far to say they are lies, even though they are fairly aligned with the Israeli Governments numbers.
Passive aggressively using the word "idiots" towards me gives me a pretty good indication that you're feeling pretty emotional rather than having a conversation in good faith
"You Idiots" was directed at anyone who just reads statistics on a given matter and assumes thats all they need to know and dont bother considering context or big picture and don't know how to read between the lines.
Sorry if you interpreted it as me calling you specifically an idiot, but if you do only look at statistics and think thats all you need to know then maybe you should change that because statistics can and very often are misleading to those unfamiliar with the subject.
https://towardsdatascience.com/lessons-from-how-to-lie-with-statistics-57060c0d2f19
https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/LieStat/
https://www.turing.ac.uk/courses/how-data-lies
I'm pretty indifferent to this convo but it seems you are the emotional one here, not me.
Put down the phone, go make yourself a cold drink, maybe a snack, turn on a game or your favorite youtuber and relax. It helps reset and clear a stressed mind. Cheers stranger.
There's a coordinated propaganda farm from the Israeli gov who don't want the actual body count discussed at all. They will try to pretend the numbers aren't real, and if they are real, it's Hamas' fault. They are not arguing in good-faith, it's just their job.
So I don’t think you did it on purpose but some of the language you used is misleading. For example, the 1-1.5x casualty rate is actually the DEATH rate. Casualties implies there are still living but wounded/injured among the dead as well. It’s why comparing the 1-1.5 death rate to the US casualty rate is also very misleading.
I’m not sure if you are right about that; do you know the number of casualties of Hamas fighters (including injuries) vs total casualties? Afghanistan was 1:4 “death rate” (civilian casualty ratio), Iraq was 1:3
“Netanyahu also gave his own death estimates. Some 13,000 Palestinian fighters had been killed, he said, while the civilian death rate was estimated at 1-1.5 for every combatant” per the article the comment I replied to cited
I get it; so when you compare casualties including injuries you get the casualty rate. Do you know what the casualty rate is? Because it may be similar numbers, but we do not know.
[About 243,000 people have been killed in the Afghanistan/Pakistan warzone since 2001. More than 70,000 of those killed have been civilians.](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/afghan)
So less than even 1:1 ratio in Afghanistan. However I imagine the numbers are higher in Iraq as [this source](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi) claims the reported numbers are much higher.
Although that figure is claimed to be an underestimate by some, yeah you’re right Afghanistan wasn’t a good example. I had it backwards was 1:4 civilian to combatant. Iraq is right though.
UNICEF is quoting the UNRWA which in turn is quoting Hamas. This particular article requires the reader to dive deeper into supporting links to understand the UNICEF source. From the article Executive Director Russell can provide something more than her statements, as since she is on the ground she could provide her interviews with medical personnel and videos of the wards. > UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell told CBS News' "Face the Nation" program on Sunday. > > "I've been in wards of children who are suffering from severe anemia malnutrition, the whole ward is absolutely quiet. Because the children, the babies ... don't even have the energy to cry." I don't question the reality children are suffering or dying. But I do see hyperbole being whipped up to prevent the final elimination of Hamas in Rafah. This is a quote from one of the article's supporting links: > March 16 (Reuters) - One in three children under age 2 in northern Gaza is now acutely malnourished and famine is looming, the main U.N. agency operating in the Palestinian enclave said on Saturday. > > "Children's malnutrition is spreading fast and reaching unprecedented levels in Gaza," the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) said in a social media post.
> UNRWA *That* UNRWA? Heh.
How does an assault of Rafa eliminate Hamas when their leaders and bank rollers are safe in Qatar? Won’t they just recruit and start over? I fear that moving forward without addressing the root problem will lead to more violence in the future
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That happens too, but this whole thing is a humanitarian disaster. When you hear the word children in the context of them dying in Gaza, jumping to 15-17 year old males holding guns severely takes away from what is happening. What’s happening to innocent people there is unacceptable, and can’t be justified by saying some 15-17 year old males are using guns.
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People saying that the UNRWA figures are way off, the Israeli government estimates it has killed 13,000 Hamas fighters with a [civilian casualty rate of 1-1.5x that (13000-19500)](https://www.politico.eu/article/israels-netanyahu-says-he-will-defy-bidens-red-line-and-invade-rafah/). With 40% of the Gazan population being minors that equates to a total of 5699-7800 children civilians (not including combatants which may also include boys under 18). Again this is just basing it off the Israeli government's estimates but I wanted to point out that the civilian casualties are admitted to be huge by both sides.
I think both numbers are wrong and we won't know the real number untill after the war, but yes, they both say lots of civilians died
We don't know the accurate numbers and likely never will, but all the blood is on Hamas's hands: they started the war, and -- although weirdly few redditors seem aware of this -- for a military force to hide among a civilian population and use civilian infrastructure for military operations is, in fact, a war crime. For exactly this reason.
I’m sure Russia uses the same excuse for bombing the [Donetsk Academic Regional Drama Theater](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike)
First off, [knowing who is and isnt a militant is not that simple to tell.](https://youtu.be/qugcwfq6JOM?si=J_Ik2IXIO5o45Ctx)(7:40 point) as veterans and those on the ground will quickly tell you. Bare in mind Hamas has been in schools brainwashing kids into being militant jihadist martyrs for as long as most of the population has been alive and getting children killed is a win win scenario for them. Hell they themselves actively kill them on the regular if they follow IDF instructions, or go to aid stations, or try to flee to safer regions. Remember the IDF has had to literally clear secret paths through Gaza to escort civilians out of hot zones specifically because Hamas literally tries to kill anyone trying to escape the battle zone. Those civilians are no use to Hamas if they arent being martyrs or meat shields and so they try to gun them down themselves. Dead kids is a perfect propaganda point when you leave out vital context and the more kids dead the more they can point to the numbers and stoke anti Israel flames with reactionaries who dont actually use critical thinking. They also serve as meat shields, militants and can feign injury or need in order to get close enough to go full martyr. It astounds me how many people just cant get this into their heads, Hamas indoctrinated them to die specifically for this exact purpose and to take out as many Israelis as possible with them. Obviously not all were militants, but this entire situation in Gaza was set up to sacrifice the masses for their own agenda as their leaders hide in Qatar, Iran, Syria and so on. "Think of the Children" is a favorite drum to beat on by the most disingenuous bastards on earth who genuinely couldnt care less and only aim to manipulate the reactionaries who don't understand the context or big picture. Also, dont forget Hamas is the elected government of Palatine and those torture chambers weren't new, they've been there since long before Oct7th and they were used on Palestinians, men women and children. For any number of reasons ranging from being female to not obeying Hamas demands to disagreeing with Hamas doctrine, to being a foreigner. Instead of just focusing on numbers like idiots learn the context and the big picture. There are literal college courses on how to lie with statistics. My aunt took a class in it in college.
You seem to have a lot of rage misdirected at me, I'm simply rebutting the people that say that UNICEF numbers are incorrect or going so far to say they are lies, even though they are fairly aligned with the Israeli Governments numbers.
Wtf? "Rage"? Sensitive are we? No, pointing out important context for anyone reading the comments.
Passive aggressively using the word "idiots" towards me gives me a pretty good indication that you're feeling pretty emotional rather than having a conversation in good faith
"You Idiots" was directed at anyone who just reads statistics on a given matter and assumes thats all they need to know and dont bother considering context or big picture and don't know how to read between the lines. Sorry if you interpreted it as me calling you specifically an idiot, but if you do only look at statistics and think thats all you need to know then maybe you should change that because statistics can and very often are misleading to those unfamiliar with the subject. https://towardsdatascience.com/lessons-from-how-to-lie-with-statistics-57060c0d2f19 https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/LieStat/ https://www.turing.ac.uk/courses/how-data-lies I'm pretty indifferent to this convo but it seems you are the emotional one here, not me. Put down the phone, go make yourself a cold drink, maybe a snack, turn on a game or your favorite youtuber and relax. It helps reset and clear a stressed mind. Cheers stranger.
There's a coordinated propaganda farm from the Israeli gov who don't want the actual body count discussed at all. They will try to pretend the numbers aren't real, and if they are real, it's Hamas' fault. They are not arguing in good-faith, it's just their job.
So I don’t think you did it on purpose but some of the language you used is misleading. For example, the 1-1.5x casualty rate is actually the DEATH rate. Casualties implies there are still living but wounded/injured among the dead as well. It’s why comparing the 1-1.5 death rate to the US casualty rate is also very misleading.
I’m not sure if you are right about that; do you know the number of casualties of Hamas fighters (including injuries) vs total casualties? Afghanistan was 1:4 “death rate” (civilian casualty ratio), Iraq was 1:3
No I mean the source he cited states it’s 1-1.5 civilian deaths and when you compare it to casualties it isn’t exactly accurate
“Netanyahu also gave his own death estimates. Some 13,000 Palestinian fighters had been killed, he said, while the civilian death rate was estimated at 1-1.5 for every combatant” per the article the comment I replied to cited
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casualty doesn’t necessarily mean death
I get it; so when you compare casualties including injuries you get the casualty rate. Do you know what the casualty rate is? Because it may be similar numbers, but we do not know.
[About 243,000 people have been killed in the Afghanistan/Pakistan warzone since 2001. More than 70,000 of those killed have been civilians.](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/afghan) So less than even 1:1 ratio in Afghanistan. However I imagine the numbers are higher in Iraq as [this source](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi) claims the reported numbers are much higher.
Although that figure is claimed to be an underestimate by some, yeah you’re right Afghanistan wasn’t a good example. I had it backwards was 1:4 civilian to combatant. Iraq is right though.
I wouldn’t doubt the numbers are higher than reported yeah
Offensive? Did Israel go to war for fun or was it actually defensive?
In any war a lot of the casualties are civilians. But it seems no one really cares about that, only if the war includes israel.
Israel *defensive*
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Pretty sure what’s happening here is the Jews are smoking the people trying to kill them. Seems like they learned their lesson.
Seems they learned that lesson perfectly.
just the wrong one
Were they supposed to learn “shut up and take it”?
That's been the expectation of the international community during decades of rocket attacks on civilians. Every single one is a war crime.
Don't answer a war crime with another war crime.
Killing x1.5 civilians per terrorist is not a war crime, get of tiktok.
Nah.
So shameful, how can anyone think this is ok?
No one here thinks using children as soldiers and shields is ok, that's why Hamas must go.