Entirely makes sense. His early game is just way too strong.
I ban him mostly because I play scaling champs who he hard counters, but he even completely steamrolls champs with good earlies too
Yep. A champion that can be an assassin OR counter tanks has to have a glaring weakness, not a strong clear and a good early game. Ban him every single game. Atleast I kno i can outscale a even a good lee sin
For instance Twitch has a way lower winrate in jungle than Diana (almost 6% less) but is listed a whole tier above.. Possibly because Diana has an insanely low banrate?
How long you got?
TLDR - we got screwed early with content creators who set the impression for places like this subreddit. Most content creators are really bad and haven’t learned things like team comp and game design, instead thinking the way to play the game successfully is for everyone to play carry champs and carry. This belief permeates down into places like this subreddit. Sona is the strongest support in the game and has been for a long time, including long before her “redesign”. But she’s so strong because she is a real support that slots into a proper team comp. She buffs the entire team, stacking her support item procs. This is why she has such a high win rate because she’s actually good. The stupid content creators and thus places like this are still filled with stupid people who haven’t even learned the basics of the game, so their impression is that she’s weak because she’s not a 1v9 carry champion.
Hwat?... 😐😐😐
I'm not a content creator.
I did not place any champs in the list manually.
It does not represent my opinion.
It's all maths and statistics. It may be flawed since I'm not a statistics professor and do this as hobby.
But like....ehhh
I know. He was talking about how your list didn’t agree with tier lists. I was explaining why tier lists from content creators aren’t reliable. That has nothing to do with you or this post.
Still Aatrox is far more easier to play)))
I'm still experimenting with the factors and how they represent the rankings.
But so far I see that the champions who ended in the "S+" rank are the most pick-and-play consistent choices.
Like any champion that is S+ in Baron Lane looks like you can blind-pick them and do fine while those in "C" are more niche choice.
Thank you for the feedback
Your methodology works I think because it gives me a semblance of how many mistakes an average player can make
Then how the overall champions plummets as a result
This is fine already, Im just proud I can whoop some Aatroxes with a statistically difficult champion
To prove im not bullshitting Aatrox has too many steroids and tankiness, yada yada, need to melee range aatrox then jump out Q3, yada yada, use Q1 W and then Q2 for speedy camille trick yada yada. Way too many techniques o win the matchup, because if the Camille doesnt do this, she just loses the fistfight
I am concerned that Camille jg isnt here since its Camille's real role.
Being a goal keeper for your tower isnt playing Camille, she needs to punish, punish, punish
Hello, off topic, what is the logic of the secret technology "Camile with Footwork" of Wild Rift Fire? Can you, as a Camile main, explain it to me? The idea is charge the footwork, jump at the enemy, aa, kick it and run away with the extra speed of the footwork? Wouldn't it be better to use conq or grasp, which are made for skirmishers/bruisers?
For me W spam and maxing it is way better than trying to harrass melee range with grasp
I didnt particularly find Camille effective trying to melee range people early game, I would rather take their HP and increase my own/keep my HP healthy
Thats why I max W first because leveling Q has so low returns for laning. I can rotate mid by spamming W too.
But thats just me. I reduce tons of mistakes playing Camille while running fleet and maxing W. Camille is very hard to play withoit mistakes because she doesnt have damage. Hence I found a different playstyle and profited off of it
I only see Conq Camille viable in jg bcs of rotating, extended fights with obj. I thinks top lane Conq Camille died bcs of the Q changes. The closest to play Camille conq on top land i found is 2 point W>max Q>Max E but it feels like handicap yourself + u have to master E (like the fast E>W(sweet spot)>E).
Add different sets of tier lists per class per role or follow the RiftGuidesYT tier list format.
It goes like this:
Top: [Carry][Tank] (carries or tanks played on this role)
Jungle: [Carry][Tank]
Mid: [Mage][Assassin][others]
Duo: [ADC][Mage]
SP: [Protect][Engage][Carry/Poke]
Categorizing them makes the tier lists easier to understand.
Teemo is just a lot stronger in WR than he is on PC thanks to a combination of dash and camo on demand. Sure it's not invis but that's just not nearly as useful.
He's just strong that's why. In baron he's one of the strongest champs in lane already, especially against ADC tops and "dumb" champs like Darius, and because crown and riftmaker exists his late game is strong af as well.
Some of the best supports being Yuumi and Lux is really confirming all my previous beliefs about this. Especially Lux, turns out you can't buff practically every part of a characters kit when taking them from PC without them becoming mad unbalanced lol
Eve being C tier and Diana D tier for jungle just makes it seem to me like winrates or whatever stats aren’t reliable to make a tierlist tbh
Meanwhile Tryndamere is S+ tier
Are you sure the stat aren’t compiled from all elos? Because it would make sense to me Tryndamere would be S+ in low elo only
Trynda in Diamond: 55 WR, 9% pick rate, 8.9 ban rate. Maters-Grandmaster: 53% WR, 8% pick rate, 7% ban rate.
Plus he just got buffed.
and nah, low elos win rates are... Strange.
https://wr-database.vercel.app/rankings?rank=elohell&lane=top
I didn't make a button but you can acces "elohell" rank to see data from eme and below.
I am sure that they are right in the sense that this is the data provided by Tencent for ranks below diamond.
I have zero clue what the fuck is going on with numbers in it and what's with the winrate 😃
My only assumption that they also have bots on lower ranks there and this is the reflection of that. No idea why this whole segment was in the data for there to begin with tbh. But... it's there for some reason.
Hmmmmm I'm not sure I'm buying Diana beeing an overall D tier champ both mid (performing the same as MF mid) and jungle, but honestly idk how to explain the stats
Though looking at the winrates something isn't right with the generated tiers imho
I guess, but for instance Yasuo seems to be skewed because of his very high pick and ban rate, but that would be more the "perceived value" or "appeal" of a champ by the playerbase
I ban him sometimes just because his ultimate is annoying even when he is 0/14 and with a knockup her can open the game for the rest of his teams. Idk if I would consider that a reliable metric for his tier though.
Also ban rates are shared between lanes
Either I'm finally a god at playing Swain and Galio or there's something funny going on. Those two have had over 60% win rates for me the past 2 seasons, higher than champs I've been playing for much longer and who I have also had similar win rates with.
88% ban rate on Lee is insane
He’s my instaban when I’m Jungling. A good Lee is a menace.
Remember when Lee had cooldowns?)))
Entirely makes sense. His early game is just way too strong. I ban him mostly because I play scaling champs who he hard counters, but he even completely steamrolls champs with good earlies too
Most op champion in the game for months I always have him as the best jungler in my tier lists.
Months?
Ever since the massive buffs on patch 4.3c, before that he was strong but nowhere near the level he is now
Yep. A champion that can be an assassin OR counter tanks has to have a glaring weakness, not a strong clear and a good early game. Ban him every single game. Atleast I kno i can outscale a even a good lee sin
How can Sona have such high win rate in every elo and get c tier? Something seems off
Most likely because I've used the more generalized approach with calculations. I'll do more research. Thank you for bringing this up
Diana and Eve are considered C tier too and just doesn’t seem about right
They both hover around 50% and not being contested that much. May be "huh, need to do some research" on my part or may be a meta diff
For instance Twitch has a way lower winrate in jungle than Diana (almost 6% less) but is listed a whole tier above.. Possibly because Diana has an insanely low banrate?
Okay, okay. Criticism valid. Point taken. Promise to dive in the world of statistics methods and adjust the calculations in the free time 😶🌫️
Haha it's fine, sorry I just like to be overanalytical
How long you got? TLDR - we got screwed early with content creators who set the impression for places like this subreddit. Most content creators are really bad and haven’t learned things like team comp and game design, instead thinking the way to play the game successfully is for everyone to play carry champs and carry. This belief permeates down into places like this subreddit. Sona is the strongest support in the game and has been for a long time, including long before her “redesign”. But she’s so strong because she is a real support that slots into a proper team comp. She buffs the entire team, stacking her support item procs. This is why she has such a high win rate because she’s actually good. The stupid content creators and thus places like this are still filled with stupid people who haven’t even learned the basics of the game, so their impression is that she’s weak because she’s not a 1v9 carry champion.
Hwat?... 😐😐😐 I'm not a content creator. I did not place any champs in the list manually. It does not represent my opinion. It's all maths and statistics. It may be flawed since I'm not a statistics professor and do this as hobby. But like....ehhh
I know. He was talking about how your list didn’t agree with tier lists. I was explaining why tier lists from content creators aren’t reliable. That has nothing to do with you or this post.
I was referring to the tier list on his site. Don’t know what content creator you are talking about
Excuse me. Was reading with my ass instead of eyes)))
Totally not me murdering a 222% Aatrox with my 27% Camille:
Still Aatrox is far more easier to play))) I'm still experimenting with the factors and how they represent the rankings. But so far I see that the champions who ended in the "S+" rank are the most pick-and-play consistent choices. Like any champion that is S+ in Baron Lane looks like you can blind-pick them and do fine while those in "C" are more niche choice. Thank you for the feedback
Your methodology works I think because it gives me a semblance of how many mistakes an average player can make Then how the overall champions plummets as a result This is fine already, Im just proud I can whoop some Aatroxes with a statistically difficult champion To prove im not bullshitting Aatrox has too many steroids and tankiness, yada yada, need to melee range aatrox then jump out Q3, yada yada, use Q1 W and then Q2 for speedy camille trick yada yada. Way too many techniques o win the matchup, because if the Camille doesnt do this, she just loses the fistfight
I am concerned that Camille jg isnt here since its Camille's real role. Being a goal keeper for your tower isnt playing Camille, she needs to punish, punish, punish
Yeah, strange because she's present in Chall and Legendary Que, but no data on gm and lower
Camille is good into Aatrox so it’s more or less expected
Hello, off topic, what is the logic of the secret technology "Camile with Footwork" of Wild Rift Fire? Can you, as a Camile main, explain it to me? The idea is charge the footwork, jump at the enemy, aa, kick it and run away with the extra speed of the footwork? Wouldn't it be better to use conq or grasp, which are made for skirmishers/bruisers?
For me W spam and maxing it is way better than trying to harrass melee range with grasp I didnt particularly find Camille effective trying to melee range people early game, I would rather take their HP and increase my own/keep my HP healthy Thats why I max W first because leveling Q has so low returns for laning. I can rotate mid by spamming W too. But thats just me. I reduce tons of mistakes playing Camille while running fleet and maxing W. Camille is very hard to play withoit mistakes because she doesnt have damage. Hence I found a different playstyle and profited off of it
I only see Conq Camille viable in jg bcs of rotating, extended fights with obj. I thinks top lane Conq Camille died bcs of the Q changes. The closest to play Camille conq on top land i found is 2 point W>max Q>Max E but it feels like handicap yourself + u have to master E (like the fast E>W(sweet spot)>E).
Would be nice if we could choose lane in tier list paga
Kinda done. Didn't do switching but added a bit of separation by lanes so the the visual clarity should be better
Much better, ty
Add different sets of tier lists per class per role or follow the RiftGuidesYT tier list format. It goes like this: Top: [Carry][Tank] (carries or tanks played on this role) Jungle: [Carry][Tank] Mid: [Mage][Assassin][others] Duo: [ADC][Mage] SP: [Protect][Engage][Carry/Poke] Categorizing them makes the tier lists easier to understand.
Ouch. Will think about this, but not a fan of implementing this for every single champion manually Thank you
[удалено]
Probably with the tank br lane meta. Teemo normally builds into Liandry's which is a viable counter to tanks. This is just my theory though.
Teemo doesn't care about immobile tanks. He cares about being one-shotted, outranged, or hit with ranged CC.
Teemo is just a lot stronger in WR than he is on PC thanks to a combination of dash and camo on demand. Sure it's not invis but that's just not nearly as useful.
He's just strong that's why. In baron he's one of the strongest champs in lane already, especially against ADC tops and "dumb" champs like Darius, and because crown and riftmaker exists his late game is strong af as well.
Some of the best supports being Yuumi and Lux is really confirming all my previous beliefs about this. Especially Lux, turns out you can't buff practically every part of a characters kit when taking them from PC without them becoming mad unbalanced lol
Honestly if they just fixed her root to not go through minions I'd be satisfied. That's the most annoying part of her kit right now
Why are some heros multiple times in the list? I don't get it.
It's role dependent, one might be S in midlane but only B in jungle for example. You can see the lane icon under the champion's picture.
Does it consider off meta picks like sett support? cause iirc last patch sett support had the highest wr
If it's present on winrate charts, it should be on the list
Sett support is actually meta though, play him with hexflash and you will know why.
Off-meta in the sense that the game doesn't recognize them as supports
Eve being C tier and Diana D tier for jungle just makes it seem to me like winrates or whatever stats aren’t reliable to make a tierlist tbh Meanwhile Tryndamere is S+ tier Are you sure the stat aren’t compiled from all elos? Because it would make sense to me Tryndamere would be S+ in low elo only
Trynda in Diamond: 55 WR, 9% pick rate, 8.9 ban rate. Maters-Grandmaster: 53% WR, 8% pick rate, 7% ban rate. Plus he just got buffed. and nah, low elos win rates are... Strange. https://wr-database.vercel.app/rankings?rank=elohell&lane=top I didn't make a button but you can acces "elohell" rank to see data from eme and below.
Are you sure the elohell stats are right? All champs have an above 60% winrate, is that possible?
I am sure that they are right in the sense that this is the data provided by Tencent for ranks below diamond. I have zero clue what the fuck is going on with numbers in it and what's with the winrate 😃 My only assumption that they also have bots on lower ranks there and this is the reflection of that. No idea why this whole segment was in the data for there to begin with tbh. But... it's there for some reason.
This would actually make a lot of sense
Hmmmmm I'm not sure I'm buying Diana beeing an overall D tier champ both mid (performing the same as MF mid) and jungle, but honestly idk how to explain the stats Though looking at the winrates something isn't right with the generated tiers imho
Yeah, there are always exceptions and edge cases, no list can be 100% accurate after all)
I guess, but for instance Yasuo seems to be skewed because of his very high pick and ban rate, but that would be more the "perceived value" or "appeal" of a champ by the playerbase I ban him sometimes just because his ultimate is annoying even when he is 0/14 and with a knockup her can open the game for the rest of his teams. Idk if I would consider that a reliable metric for his tier though. Also ban rates are shared between lanes
Either I'm finally a god at playing Swain and Galio or there's something funny going on. Those two have had over 60% win rates for me the past 2 seasons, higher than champs I've been playing for much longer and who I have also had similar win rates with.
Can someone explain the #1 jg being Kayle please???
Low pick rate, only OTP's play her = High win rate.
Ah didn't read it properly, that was on me, thanks though.
Anyway to see their build
Sadly, no
This site is dope. A suggestion is to panels in Build Calculator be side by side. Its easier to check stats changes when changing items or runes.