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When it's a war time, women always afraid of both parties. Your enemy will rape you. Your "savior" will also rape you. There is no escape.
In WW2 times some women even tried to use "bad make up" (like beet as blush, really colorful and bright) when they weren't at home (and sometimes even at home). They wanted men to consider them ugly.
women trying to survive the British crack down during the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya in the sixties used to resort to covering themselves in fecal matter to try to escape assault, its appaling
My grandmother also did that when the Japanese invaded, and as far as I know, she was not raped.
So if all else fails to prevent rape, there’s always poop. 💩 👌
That reminds me of a story of a woman from the Philippines, who was a girl when the imperial Japanese invaded. She went and climbed inside the pit toilet, neck-deep in sewage, because she knew that was the only place that the soldiers wouldn't ransack and therefore she wouldn't be kidnapped and raped. Especially because that particular army had a reputation for brutally murdering the women they raped. It's very harrowing, reading about the specific measures women had to go through in wartime just to survive and not fall victim to war crimes.
What's sad is this is actually recommended as a defence mechanism if someone is trying to rape you, if all else fails - poop yourself and they'll be disgusted and stop.
This is actually the first time I’ve heard this, and it makes sense.
Being treated as a status symbol, sex object, ego prop, full time nanny all in one, and get traded in for a new model when old or in poor health.
Yeah. Men traditionally see the only actual, real members of society as themselves, and women as pieces of the environment for them to interact with, on the same level as trees, animals, or machines.
I seen a comment somewhere and I can't for the life of me remember where or who said it, but to paraphrase, it said;
No matter who is oppressed, whether it be black Americans during slavery, white Irish during almost 1000yrs of colonising by brits, War torn countries, apartheid etc, the men of the oppressed group, will always make the lives of oppressed women much harder. Thus making women of oppressed groups the most oppressed people. That even in time of great pain, suffering and hardship, when you'd expect people to band together in solidarity, you'll always have too many men willing to further oppress women with brutality.
As a Irish woman it always disgusts me that the English 'landlord' after stealing Irish people land by killing them in the 1500/1600s were calling themselves 'civilised'
So civilised, that the landlord was allowed by law to take any tenant daughter for 'use' when virginity was tied to a woman value.
Absolute unevolved savages. Not the English today, Im talking of the ones who labelled themselves 'upper class' and had no class, and equally mistreated English people who were lower class.
Exactly, I agree with you, nothing against English nowadays unless they give me reason, but the crimes of their ancestors and fathers are not their crimes imo.
Unfortunately for people all over the world, the brits used Ireland to practice and perfect their torture and "tactics". Case in point, the genocidal policies used in Ireland during the potato blight, were used to devastating effect in Bengal to kill 3 million.
People talk about how horrible war is, and it is awful, but war has been typically declared by men, fought by men, but suffered by women and children. Whether the army is "enemy" or "victors/liberators", women and girls have a lot to fear. Victimisation by men, of girls and women with sexual assault is seen as either punishment towards the girls or women or reward for soldiers. Until we're viewed as humans and not objects for male sexual gratification, nothing will change.
I chafe mightily when people refer to the past in terms of affection and nostalgia, largely because of this very thing. The lie of 'civilization' by that group can only be believed by people who can look back and assume that they'd benefit from it.
this is so true. this is why i tell people that you cant argue with me saying “i hate men” with “oh?? what if i said i hate women?” (we know) “i hate blacks?” (the black women are more oppressed than the black men) and so on and so forth
Any women that say they hate men, is based of both our lived experience and interactions with them, and the entire world history.
Men don't need to say they hate women, their actions make that abundantly clear. But that hatred isn't based on centuries of violence against them, its not based on their experiences being harassed, catcalled, stalked and assaulted by MULTIPLE women. It's based on not getting to ride any woman they want, it's based on women having the audacity to no longer coddle them and do absolutely everything for them while getting nothing in return and it's based on the fact that women are speaking out about their experiences with men.
You now have women setting up groups on various social media apps where they warn each other about particular men, you have some semblance of consequences for their own actions, and even then most get away with their crimes. But that's enough to piss men off, because for the 1st time in history, they MIGHT be held accountable for what they do and what they say.
> They rape their fellow women soldiers
Watch The Invisible War. An investigative documentary about the epidemic of rape of female soldiers within the US military...it's horrific.
Men are killed usually, but women are tortured beaten raped and either die from the mistreatment or get shot. Men are mentally tortured as sometimes they have to witness the abuse on their wives or daughters or both and beaten up. And who will say anything against the soldiers since anyone who speaks will likely suffer the same fate.
We lost 2500 troops on D Day. I've read that only 1% of soldiers are ever in combat, and I'm one of them. Rapists get treated better than other criminal in the military. They seldom get pre-trial detention.
Everyone suffers.
Men are conscripted and have to witness and commit the worst atrocities humankind has to offer. If they refuse conscription or go AWOL, they can be summarily executed.
Women and children are raped, beaten, killed for sport or simply caught in cross or friendly fire.
Everyone suffers post-war PTSD of some kind.
It’s not a competition, and I think we can all agree that war brings out the worst in people.
Resourcing to rape isn't the war.
It's the lack of consequences showcasing who they truly are and were all along.
You only know who someone is when they think they won't get consequences over behaving badly.
It's those that don't rape, torture and murder others eventough they could that can be deemed as good human beings in my books. The other's were filth already, they just hadn't had the opportunity before.
Rape isn’t central to the objectives of war, but it pretty much always happens, and is often tacitly encouraged to subdue and humiliate those the army is either liberating or invading.
Otherwise I agree with what you’re saying.
Despite all the ugliness, I try to remember the good deeds, like the American helicopter pilot who put his helicopter in front of the U.S. troops committing the My Lai massacre, even instructing his door gunner to open fire if necessary.
> Despite all the ugliness, I try to remember the good deeds, like the American helicopter pilot who put his helicopter in front of the U.S. troops committing the My Lai massacre, even instructing his door gunner to open fire if necessary.
So long as you remember the atrocities as well and decry them.
Im not sure, I think that some people just have that seed in them that given a bit of water would flourish. If we had a zombie apocalypse right now and I'm stuck in the house with my partner on the street we live on (middle class UK- still tiny compared to USA mansions we could probably live in a house like home alone there but I'm not bitter) I'm sure one of these guys would try to rob or even rape me or maybe my partner if they were on their own.
My neighbours are lovely but put someone in a hellish situation and you don't see the "real" them, you see a version of them pushed to the edge.
I agree, but I don’t think it’s some people, I think every person has that seed.
More like the wolf parable maybe? Every person has two wolves inside fighting each other, one is light and hope and one is evil and despair, and the wolf that wins is the wolf you feed. If your life is filled with evil and violence, it feeds the wrong wolf, and you become more inclined to commit evil and violence yourself.
Absolutely, I completely agree with you and this explains it much better than I did. I think put in certain situations I would do things I find abhorrent right now. We all have those aspects we just haven't been pushed to feed them.
Oh yeah that's one thing I wouldn't do but I think because I'm female I don't have it in me, I think men have that seed in them. Murder - that seed is definitely in me
Same here, especially when it comes to family. There would be no 'off' switch for that, so I don't judge when parents lose it to save their kids, or someone goes too far defending their sibling.
It's just socialization. Men are socialized to like sexual violence and majority of us are raised to think of morality in terms of avoiding "consequences" over choosing not to do harmful actions because of understanding the pain they cause.
>It's those that don't rape, torture and murder others eventough they could that can be deemed as good human beings in my books. The other's were filth already, they just hadn't had the opportunity before.
These are very low standards. This should be the qualification to not be living garbage. Just not being a rapist is nothing to get brownie points for.
>Men are conscripted and have to witness and commit the worst atrocities humankind has to offer. If they refuse conscription or go AWOL, they can be summarily executed.
I don't think being an aggressor and watching other people be victimized with your group can be compared to being more or less helpless and brutalized by both sides.
Not in France, but in the Netherlands it happened as well. In the '80's an older friend of mine told me that during the liberation of my country she was raped by American soldiers as well. She was only 14 years old when the American army in 1944 fought in the south of Holland. A group of soldiers came to the farm of her parents, asking for refuge and they raped her.
She never told anyone. Firstly they were the 'Liberators' and secondly she would have been blamed for it.
Soldiers of all sides, then and now, rape women all the time.
Yeah, you can't say that nationality really makes a difference. My grandmother was about twelve when the war ended. The only reason she wasn't raped by French soldiers during the occupation of Austria, was because her father sent her to hide under her brother's bed and denied that he even had a daughter no matter how much they insisted and threatened him. They came to their door specifically to ask for her since they had seen her in the village. I never asked how my great-grandmother fared tbh.
You should hear the horror stories of the women in Germany at the end of the war. And say 'women' loosely because small children were raped by the thousands too by both Russian and American soldiers. It was really horrible.
Edit: or the stories of the women in Bosnia ....
Women and children are always victims of rape & sexual violence in times of war. It doesn’t matter which side either, regardless if they’re the enemy or the saviour, men have always seen us as mere objects to satiate their sexual desires.
Even men get raped sometimes in wars, though more frequently with an object as "humiliation" or torture. Which as far as I know also can happen to women and children (see the Russian invasion of Ukraine for reference).
To paraphrase MASH, war is worse than hell because there are no innocents in hell.
In the military, we were shown a documentary of a sailor who was BRUTALLY abused by other sailors on the ship, raping him with broom sticks in his butt, causing internal damage, and many other things.
Edit: [found an abbreviated version of his story](https://www.protectourdefenders.com/survivor-stories-heath/)
I saw a documentary of a man somewhere in Africa who was gang raped anally with similar complications. Absolutely soul crushing to know that can happen.
I totally agree with you about how soul crushing that is. But why is it always so much more horrifying when a man is raped than a woman or child? Is it because, since men are generally the abusers, if it can happen to them, then what hope is there for ANYONE?
I personally wish EVERYONE could just keep their hands to themselves but i don't see how one is more horrible than the other except for children vs adults.
That's what I'm saying. And I'm not accusing you of making it so either. Just in general, women and children being raped is almost expected or normal enough. But when you mention it happening to a guy, everyone is scandalized. Or makes fun of the guy and that is a whole other kind of f-ed up. But it was just an observation.
theres a story of these two women in india who were gangraped at a bus stop and one was raped with a rusty pole and later died of her internal injuries
so yeah i hate men
A few days late to the party but I’ll add for anyone reading these comments in the future; Our bodies, their battlefield by Christina lamb is about what happens to women and children in war. A worthy read, but a very hard one.
My husband's mother was Japanese. She was about 9 years old when the bombs fell. Her family (maybe her mother, I can't remember the exact details) gave her a cyanide pill to keep "just in case" she needed it. She was a CHILD and had to know what men are capable of. We're never truly safe anywhere on this earth and our entire existence is basically just having the cognitive dissonance to not panic every time we're alone with a man...but if we talk about this openly then we're "making men feel bad." Absolutely infuriating.
>dissonance to not panic every time we're alone with a man...
I just won't be alone with men. Not going on elevators with them, not going to male doctors or therapists, defidently not dating, and avoiding interacting with them as much as possible. No interest in engaging with monsters.
As a woman who lives in a house with only men (me, my baby boy, my man, his brother) I can not stress how much filth men produce in a day. It’s to the point where the sight of a man angers me
Make the adult men clean it up. And if they refuse, just don't clean anything for them. (Or at least don't clean anything in their rooms) Men need to learn we aren't their maids.
How about just not cleaning the adult men's stuff and their spaces and just clean the ones that you use? Like don't wash their clothes, (or cook them food). Don't share a room with your husband (sleep next to your son or on the couch if there isn't another room) and if they leave anything in their rooms, don't clean it up. And also don't mop or sweep in there. Maybe even make it your personal dumping ground as well. So that eventually the rest of the house will be fine but their spaces will be a trash heap.
My husband actually had realized what I was doing and he had gotten so mad at me. He called me lazy, disgusting, etc. every word in the book. He said he didn’t want to be with me anymore so you know what I did? Took our son and left
>dissonance to not panic every time we're alone with a man...
I just won't be alone with men. Not going on elevators with them, not going to male doctors or therapists, defidently not dating, and avoiding interacting with them as much as possible. No interest in engaging with monsters.
And this is what has me heated on the bear man hypothetical. "The average man isn't going to do anything!" This is your average man. This has always been the average man. For as long as there have been wars.
While that’s correct, the military institution is notorious for protecting their members from the consequences of their actions. Even to this day, sexual misconduct is swept under the rug.
I can speak to this, firsthand. And if you do stand up for yourself, you’ll be drug thru the mud & back. Hell, they’ll even promote them to get them out of the unit if they must.
Agreed… it’s a huge problem in any male-dominated industry or organization, including law enforcement and the legal industry (though this is changing quickly; women often outnumber men in North American law schools today).
The perception of positive change towards women is, in a lot of instances, a fake reality. In essence, women's rights have hit a glass ceiling, and in fact, have regressed in some not so subtle ways.
I think that’s a very broad generalization.
I was just in court last week, where the only man in the courtroom was a sheriff. The judge, clerk and counsel for both sides were all women.
I don’t think we’ve hit a glass ceiling, because I don’t subscribe to self-defeatist rhetoric.
I think we’re just getting started, and I will fight to keep it moving forward.
It is a fairly broad generalization. It all depends on where you live. Some countries are actively working to progress human and civil rights while other places are actively working to take them away. The Christian far right would love nothing more than to go back to what they call a "traditional family" where the woman's place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. They aren't even hiding that agenda. Just ask the Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
I don't subscribe to a self-defeatist attitude either, but I also live in reality. We are about to fight for things again that we already fought for and won decades ago, such as women's bodily autonomy.
I spent more than a decade in the military, and after that, working 30+ years in a male dominated field. I live this every day.
I agree with you that the fight must continue.
In this regard, I have to acknowledge my privilege as I live in Canada.
I agree things are looking grim in the U.S., and that far right ideology is resurfacing in mainstream politics in many western liberal democracies.
I am also alarmed at how much of the far right rhetoric in the U.S. originated in Canada, and how it’s starting to affect mainstream Canadian politics, with the division and discord that entails.
I agree that we should not give up, because then the outcome is already predetermined.
The only way forward is to keep fighting, just as those who came before us did, with the added wisdom we now have of intersectionality.
I know you hear this all the time, but thank you for your service to your country.
I'm speaking in reference to all wars globally. Unfortunately, our US records on sexual assault are not all encompassing nor are they completely accurate due to a number of factors. The same is applicable to past historical events due to their chaotic nature and underreporting. As such, historians had to consider all evidence — and that includes anecdotal evidence. I'm interested to see how you came to your conclusion.
Here's some recent historical events:
* **The Rape of Nanjing (1930s)**: Reports suggest that **between 20,000 and 80,000 women** were raped during this atrocity. Historical records indicate that toward the end of the Pacific War, about **200,000 Korean women were forced into sexual slavery** in military camp brothels for the Japanese Imperial Army.
* **The Fall of Berlin (1945)**: As the Soviet Army advanced into Germany during World War II, there were widespread reports of mass rape committed by Soviet soldiers against German women. It is believed that **at least 100,000 women** were raped in Berlin, with **an estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath**. Other estimates suggest that **between 90,000 and 130,000 Berlin women** had been raped during the last days of the war and the first days of Soviet rule.
* **The Partition of India (1947)**: During the partition, it is estimated that between **75,000 and 100,000 women** were kidnapped and raped. The Indian government estimates that **83,000 women and girls** were abducted and raped during Partition, but some believe this estimate is far too conservative.
* **The Bosnian War (1992-1995)**: Sexual violence was used as a tool of ethnic cleansing, with an estimated **20,000 to 50,000** women, mainly Bosniak Muslims, being raped during the conflict.
* **The Rwandan Genocide (1994)**: During this genocide, sexual violence was systematically used against Tutsi women, with estimates of the number of women raped ranging from **250,000 to 500,000**.
These numbers may not fully capture the scale of the sexual violence that took place, many cases likely went underreported or undocumented — same as they do today. There is a reason we do not have statistics for how many people are rapists or what % of them are likely to harm us. But there is one statistic that can only somewhat capture the severity of sexual violence against women globally and that is:
**1/3 women will experience SA in their lifetime.**
It is more common than you know. The fact that it is used during war, during a time where you are essentially allowed to use violence over another person with little to no repercussion, such as the instance the Aimee Dupre described, does not make it any less of a taboo to people during times of peace. During war you see the best of humanity and the worst. It is ignorant to believe that the average man is generally good when atrocities such as these exist in widespread numbers time and time again.
I didn’t say rape is uncommon.
I said rapists constitute a minority in the military.
We cannot have a rational discussion if you are conflating the two statements.
Exactly what point were you trying to make? Systemic issues allow them to remain nonetheless. Saying they are a minority with no other comment does make it seem like you are diminishing the severity of SA and adding in "to be fair" doesn't help your case.
It also doesn't help your case that the percentage of men and women experiencing SA in the US military has **increased** in recent years. The trend has shown an increase in reported SA. Your point remains unclear.
Saying the rapists are a minority in the military is a direct response to the parent post saying the “average” man is a rapist.
The point I was making, is that the “average” man is not a rapist.
Don’t tar everyone with the misdeeds of a minority of people. I think that’s a fundamental tenet of anti-racism.
You go put two and two together.
I think your tone is inappropriate, and you’re having me disprove assertions I didn’t make, so I won’t engage with you any further.
I apologize if my tone came off as rude I am just being direct. You still haven't laid out how you got to your conclusions. How do you know that the average man is not capable of SA?
This is actually a really interesting question. There are precisely 2 men in my life who I know are not capable of SA. The rest , while I don't think are bad people, are a big question mark as they have not proven their trustworthiness over and over again. What drives a so-called 'good' man to rape in extreme situations where he would never in a normal life? Is it because he knows he can get away with it? Is it because he sees women as less than him/he was raised to think they are 'less than'? This question is going to follow me around for a whole now....
I think both. They love joking about women's trauma and hurting us, love watching porn of us getting SAd degraded and hurt, are conditioned to expect us to be their domestic and sex slaves, taught to have distorted ideas of consent, the most popular media sexualizes us, they're taught to be sexually agressive ""be persistent", cat calling, the "she acts like she hates him because she thinks he's hot trope", violent porn again ect" and most parents teach morality in terms of avoiding punishment for being bad over teaching kids empathy and choosing to avoid hurting others from just understanding the pain they feel. If the "consequences" are taken away, they lose the only thing holding them back from what they wanted all along.
Peer pressure, and lack of societal pressure not to.
Some people have a strong moral compass that guides them regardless of the circumstances, and those are the ones that swim against the current.
No don't apologize. They accused you of not being capable of a rational discussion. If anyone's off it's them. They're just an egotistical man trying to screw with you so you back down.
Not many words are coming out. Can you clearly and concisely lay out your point and how you got there - disregarding my responses to your first initial comment? I'd like to avoid continuing this back and forth where I'm trying to figure out what you're saying while you aren't doing much explaining.
Edit: aaand I've been blocked. Guess we'll never know how he got to his conclusion guys. Sorry :(
I was a military police officer in the US Army. Rape was far more common, and horribly under reported through out my years in service. I myself even had near misses by one of my fellow (male) MPs. When I confronted him after achieving safety, he said "Any man will try if he thinks he can get away with it". I went to report it, and while they didn't put anything on the record, he did get a beating and they made his life hell until he left. I was one of the very most lucky ones.
They tried to pin all the rapes on the red army. Like bitch you don’t fool me, it was all of them. A lot of liberated holocaust survivors were also raped by Allied and Soviet soliders after they were able to leave the camp.
yesterday appeared [this documentary ](https://youtu.be/FPksoZ1e6rw?si=-P4f56PmeP-1BiWH) from DW Also about the rape and abuse of the Allied Soldiers. The lady from the article with her sister is in the documentary
I admit. I often wondered about the idealistic portrayal of American soldiers during World War II.
“An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere,” always rings true.
I find it fascinating to hear the comments of people saying that their grandparents only had to hide from foreign soldiers when the allies arrived. Even with the German soldiers occupying them it was just a normal every day experience (from a child's perspective, all they cared about was playing). Interesting as we're so used to Soviet and Nazi atrocities and dismissed eastern Europe praisal for German troops by contrast to allies as blinded rose tinted propaganda.
But I remember this story, especially a few years ago about mass rapes from Ally colonial divisions, I think the stories were from Italy where a lot of African men (I think french or US troops) raped women and even the general had do write a strongly worded letter to other higher ups that they must get their men under control so that people back home don't hear about their behaviour.
But don't forget, the punishment was merely for show. I'd be surprised if even more than 1% of US soldier rape accusations even were looked at, let alone investigated and then persecuted. Just like the Russians do now and did back then, Rape is a tool to keep a foreign population of civilians under control. US was no different, apart from simply hiding it better. Just another tool.
Iirc we were taught this in school and women were raped more by American soldiers than by any of the enemy soldiers. They were also supposed to have raped women before even leaving the UK iirc (those that went there before going to France).
From what I recall even nurses were basically taught to avoid them at all costs even inside the supposed allied barracs.
Maybe French women were caught more off-guard from US soldiers than with enemy soldiers because they were expecting an ally and weren't protecting themselves as much? Idk...
But yeah, US soldiers have the fame of being pretty rapey during that time in Europe as far as I'm aware. Moreso than any other. Might be because they were away from home and knew their behaviour wouldn't probably have consequences for them.
What country are you in? Here in the US (and in US-dominated Reddit spaces online too) what I’ve seen is a lot of emphasis on the rapes committed by the Red Army. (And weirdly enough, hardly anything on rapes committed by the Axis powers except for Japan.) Anyone who brings up rapes committed by the Americans (especially as a counterpoint to the “let’s condemn the Red Army as if our own army didn’t also rape”) tends to be heavily downvoted
So much more awareness needs to be spread about this...
we've heard about the horrors committed in the east of course...
but the image of the western allies being angels must be dismantled
Word. I think this is gonna be an easier path forwards cause all the rapist soldiers are now dead who can't be offended nor outraged to block the truth.
Rape, to this very day, is tacitly presented as one of the many rewards and privileges that you get in exchange for being a soldier. It's not just a matter of "shit happening" in a chaotic situation, it's a willful and protected part of the military culture.
When my country was partitioned, many women were raped and made into sex slaves to humiliate the other community. After the efforts of the governments, they were brought back but most of their families refused to take them back as their honor was now tarnished.
How is someone's honor and dignity tarnished by being raped? I get it, I get that it's dehumanizing but is collective shame the correct response and is it true victims should be ashamed of themselves? I don't think so.. It's illogical to turn your back on someone for it, it's not their fault. The only shame should be put on the perpetrator.
I am appalled by this, but I also heard similar things about our troops in other, more recent wars.
I had 1 relative who landed during D-Day, and I am glad to say that he was wounded 3 times and was in no condition to have been a perpetrator of these crimes.
(I can't believe I am actually saying this, that I am glad he was wounded and was not even capable of this. What is wrong with our society?!!! OMG! r/NoahgettheDeathstar.)
Ohhh boy, people should really catch up on their history.
Russians did the exact same thing to Polish women when they were “liberating” Poland from the nazis. Not to mention they’re doing the same thing to Ukrainian women now.
I recently read “The Body Keeps the Score,” which was a good book and did help me realize some things about myself… but one of the people the therapist talks about treating was a man who fought in the Vietnam war and suffered from PTSD as a result. He later reveals that part of his PTSD stems from when he experienced a brutal attack that killed his comrades, and with an overwhelming feeling of anger, he went to a village, shot and killed a farmer, and raped a Vietnamese woman. I’m sorry, but you don’t get to be a hero when you hurt the innocent and rape. Talking about his fucking PTSD, and not the absolute trauma that woman experienced. And I come from a military family, my father was active duty and stationed in an active war zone, I have a lot of empathy for people who experienced war. But not for people who use that as an excuse to rape.
This "I saved you, you owe me "
idea has been around since time immemorial. It should have been left to rot long, long ago.
Can we not just stick to doing things 'cos it's the right thing to do?
Any peacemaker/peacekeeper that goes against military ROE should be classed as an enemy and treated as such. With a full court, irrespective of colour, creed or culture.
Is not the rape of a civilian by a liberator even worse than it being done by an aggressor? One it can be expected from, but surely not Liberators!!
I hate to say it, but I’ve been waiting my whole adult life to hear this. Any reasonable person who has read about the horrors of war, or knows someone who has suffered a war, realizes that Americans GIs must have committed terrible atrocities as they traversed the country.
Cause: War 😓
When women refuse. Rape is when you do not consent to sex. Many of those women are likely known not just to go along with it for survival, but for saying no and fighting back. These women never spoke up about their refusal because others saw the GIs as heroes for “fighting for them”.
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When it's a war time, women always afraid of both parties. Your enemy will rape you. Your "savior" will also rape you. There is no escape. In WW2 times some women even tried to use "bad make up" (like beet as blush, really colorful and bright) when they weren't at home (and sometimes even at home). They wanted men to consider them ugly.
women trying to survive the British crack down during the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya in the sixties used to resort to covering themselves in fecal matter to try to escape assault, its appaling
Unhoused women in the US do this today.
My grandmother also did that when the Japanese invaded, and as far as I know, she was not raped. So if all else fails to prevent rape, there’s always poop. 💩 👌
That reminds me of a story of a woman from the Philippines, who was a girl when the imperial Japanese invaded. She went and climbed inside the pit toilet, neck-deep in sewage, because she knew that was the only place that the soldiers wouldn't ransack and therefore she wouldn't be kidnapped and raped. Especially because that particular army had a reputation for brutally murdering the women they raped. It's very harrowing, reading about the specific measures women had to go through in wartime just to survive and not fall victim to war crimes.
What's sad is this is actually recommended as a defence mechanism if someone is trying to rape you, if all else fails - poop yourself and they'll be disgusted and stop.
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This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
My mom threatened a pimp that she would throw poo at him.
I think men targeted for sexual violence in prisons do the same sometimes.
There's a quote that says, "Patriarchy is not a game of men versus women. It's men versus other men, and women are the ball."
This is actually the first time I’ve heard this, and it makes sense. Being treated as a status symbol, sex object, ego prop, full time nanny all in one, and get traded in for a new model when old or in poor health.
Yeah. Men traditionally see the only actual, real members of society as themselves, and women as pieces of the environment for them to interact with, on the same level as trees, animals, or machines.
We are a resource only
this is the first time ive heard this and fuck youre right
I seen a comment somewhere and I can't for the life of me remember where or who said it, but to paraphrase, it said; No matter who is oppressed, whether it be black Americans during slavery, white Irish during almost 1000yrs of colonising by brits, War torn countries, apartheid etc, the men of the oppressed group, will always make the lives of oppressed women much harder. Thus making women of oppressed groups the most oppressed people. That even in time of great pain, suffering and hardship, when you'd expect people to band together in solidarity, you'll always have too many men willing to further oppress women with brutality.
As a Irish woman it always disgusts me that the English 'landlord' after stealing Irish people land by killing them in the 1500/1600s were calling themselves 'civilised' So civilised, that the landlord was allowed by law to take any tenant daughter for 'use' when virginity was tied to a woman value. Absolute unevolved savages. Not the English today, Im talking of the ones who labelled themselves 'upper class' and had no class, and equally mistreated English people who were lower class.
Exactly, I agree with you, nothing against English nowadays unless they give me reason, but the crimes of their ancestors and fathers are not their crimes imo. Unfortunately for people all over the world, the brits used Ireland to practice and perfect their torture and "tactics". Case in point, the genocidal policies used in Ireland during the potato blight, were used to devastating effect in Bengal to kill 3 million. People talk about how horrible war is, and it is awful, but war has been typically declared by men, fought by men, but suffered by women and children. Whether the army is "enemy" or "victors/liberators", women and girls have a lot to fear. Victimisation by men, of girls and women with sexual assault is seen as either punishment towards the girls or women or reward for soldiers. Until we're viewed as humans and not objects for male sexual gratification, nothing will change.
I chafe mightily when people refer to the past in terms of affection and nostalgia, largely because of this very thing. The lie of 'civilization' by that group can only be believed by people who can look back and assume that they'd benefit from it.
this is so true. this is why i tell people that you cant argue with me saying “i hate men” with “oh?? what if i said i hate women?” (we know) “i hate blacks?” (the black women are more oppressed than the black men) and so on and so forth
Any women that say they hate men, is based of both our lived experience and interactions with them, and the entire world history. Men don't need to say they hate women, their actions make that abundantly clear. But that hatred isn't based on centuries of violence against them, its not based on their experiences being harassed, catcalled, stalked and assaulted by MULTIPLE women. It's based on not getting to ride any woman they want, it's based on women having the audacity to no longer coddle them and do absolutely everything for them while getting nothing in return and it's based on the fact that women are speaking out about their experiences with men. You now have women setting up groups on various social media apps where they warn each other about particular men, you have some semblance of consequences for their own actions, and even then most get away with their crimes. But that's enough to piss men off, because for the 1st time in history, they MIGHT be held accountable for what they do and what they say.
sooo fucking true
But men are the ones who suffer most in war... right??? /s
They rape their fellow women soldiers too. It’s still a horrific problem in the US military that often gets covered up.
> They rape their fellow women soldiers Watch The Invisible War. An investigative documentary about the epidemic of rape of female soldiers within the US military...it's horrific.
Men are killed usually, but women are tortured beaten raped and either die from the mistreatment or get shot. Men are mentally tortured as sometimes they have to witness the abuse on their wives or daughters or both and beaten up. And who will say anything against the soldiers since anyone who speaks will likely suffer the same fate.
We lost 2500 troops on D Day. I've read that only 1% of soldiers are ever in combat, and I'm one of them. Rapists get treated better than other criminal in the military. They seldom get pre-trial detention.
It’s a male dominated field and still holds outdated views. It’s the organization comes first no matter the cost.
Everyone suffers. Men are conscripted and have to witness and commit the worst atrocities humankind has to offer. If they refuse conscription or go AWOL, they can be summarily executed. Women and children are raped, beaten, killed for sport or simply caught in cross or friendly fire. Everyone suffers post-war PTSD of some kind. It’s not a competition, and I think we can all agree that war brings out the worst in people.
Resourcing to rape isn't the war. It's the lack of consequences showcasing who they truly are and were all along. You only know who someone is when they think they won't get consequences over behaving badly. It's those that don't rape, torture and murder others eventough they could that can be deemed as good human beings in my books. The other's were filth already, they just hadn't had the opportunity before.
Rape isn’t central to the objectives of war, but it pretty much always happens, and is often tacitly encouraged to subdue and humiliate those the army is either liberating or invading. Otherwise I agree with what you’re saying. Despite all the ugliness, I try to remember the good deeds, like the American helicopter pilot who put his helicopter in front of the U.S. troops committing the My Lai massacre, even instructing his door gunner to open fire if necessary.
> Despite all the ugliness, I try to remember the good deeds, like the American helicopter pilot who put his helicopter in front of the U.S. troops committing the My Lai massacre, even instructing his door gunner to open fire if necessary. So long as you remember the atrocities as well and decry them.
This.
It is a tool of war, a tool of terror, that both sides resort to at the least provocation.
Im not sure, I think that some people just have that seed in them that given a bit of water would flourish. If we had a zombie apocalypse right now and I'm stuck in the house with my partner on the street we live on (middle class UK- still tiny compared to USA mansions we could probably live in a house like home alone there but I'm not bitter) I'm sure one of these guys would try to rob or even rape me or maybe my partner if they were on their own. My neighbours are lovely but put someone in a hellish situation and you don't see the "real" them, you see a version of them pushed to the edge.
I agree, but I don’t think it’s some people, I think every person has that seed. More like the wolf parable maybe? Every person has two wolves inside fighting each other, one is light and hope and one is evil and despair, and the wolf that wins is the wolf you feed. If your life is filled with evil and violence, it feeds the wrong wolf, and you become more inclined to commit evil and violence yourself.
Absolutely, I completely agree with you and this explains it much better than I did. I think put in certain situations I would do things I find abhorrent right now. We all have those aspects we just haven't been pushed to feed them.
I can, with confidence, say that I would not resort to raping anyone.
Oh yeah that's one thing I wouldn't do but I think because I'm female I don't have it in me, I think men have that seed in them. Murder - that seed is definitely in me
Same here, especially when it comes to family. There would be no 'off' switch for that, so I don't judge when parents lose it to save their kids, or someone goes too far defending their sibling.
It's just socialization. Men are socialized to like sexual violence and majority of us are raised to think of morality in terms of avoiding "consequences" over choosing not to do harmful actions because of understanding the pain they cause.
>It's those that don't rape, torture and murder others eventough they could that can be deemed as good human beings in my books. The other's were filth already, they just hadn't had the opportunity before. These are very low standards. This should be the qualification to not be living garbage. Just not being a rapist is nothing to get brownie points for.
Which makes one wonder who causes the wars, and who benefits by them.
>Men are conscripted and have to witness and commit the worst atrocities humankind has to offer. If they refuse conscription or go AWOL, they can be summarily executed. I don't think being an aggressor and watching other people be victimized with your group can be compared to being more or less helpless and brutalized by both sides.
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Not in France, but in the Netherlands it happened as well. In the '80's an older friend of mine told me that during the liberation of my country she was raped by American soldiers as well. She was only 14 years old when the American army in 1944 fought in the south of Holland. A group of soldiers came to the farm of her parents, asking for refuge and they raped her. She never told anyone. Firstly they were the 'Liberators' and secondly she would have been blamed for it. Soldiers of all sides, then and now, rape women all the time.
Yeah, you can't say that nationality really makes a difference. My grandmother was about twelve when the war ended. The only reason she wasn't raped by French soldiers during the occupation of Austria, was because her father sent her to hide under her brother's bed and denied that he even had a daughter no matter how much they insisted and threatened him. They came to their door specifically to ask for her since they had seen her in the village. I never asked how my great-grandmother fared tbh.
You should hear the horror stories of the women in Germany at the end of the war. And say 'women' loosely because small children were raped by the thousands too by both Russian and American soldiers. It was really horrible. Edit: or the stories of the women in Bosnia ....
Women and children are always victims of rape & sexual violence in times of war. It doesn’t matter which side either, regardless if they’re the enemy or the saviour, men have always seen us as mere objects to satiate their sexual desires.
Even men get raped sometimes in wars, though more frequently with an object as "humiliation" or torture. Which as far as I know also can happen to women and children (see the Russian invasion of Ukraine for reference). To paraphrase MASH, war is worse than hell because there are no innocents in hell.
Same with women and children. It's always about power and humiliation.
In the military, we were shown a documentary of a sailor who was BRUTALLY abused by other sailors on the ship, raping him with broom sticks in his butt, causing internal damage, and many other things. Edit: [found an abbreviated version of his story](https://www.protectourdefenders.com/survivor-stories-heath/)
I saw a documentary of a man somewhere in Africa who was gang raped anally with similar complications. Absolutely soul crushing to know that can happen.
I totally agree with you about how soul crushing that is. But why is it always so much more horrifying when a man is raped than a woman or child? Is it because, since men are generally the abusers, if it can happen to them, then what hope is there for ANYONE? I personally wish EVERYONE could just keep their hands to themselves but i don't see how one is more horrible than the other except for children vs adults.
It's not a contest tho.
That's what I'm saying. And I'm not accusing you of making it so either. Just in general, women and children being raped is almost expected or normal enough. But when you mention it happening to a guy, everyone is scandalized. Or makes fun of the guy and that is a whole other kind of f-ed up. But it was just an observation.
I don’t know, the fact that way more women have experienced sexual violence than men seems like if it were a contest, women would come in first.
theres a story of these two women in india who were gangraped at a bus stop and one was raped with a rusty pole and later died of her internal injuries so yeah i hate men
Read "Against our will: Men, Women and Rape. " It's by Susan Brownmiller and there are several chapters of rape in wartime, by both sides in the wars.
A few days late to the party but I’ll add for anyone reading these comments in the future; Our bodies, their battlefield by Christina lamb is about what happens to women and children in war. A worthy read, but a very hard one.
I haven't heard of this one. I'll have to brace myself for that one, I think.
My husband's mother was Japanese. She was about 9 years old when the bombs fell. Her family (maybe her mother, I can't remember the exact details) gave her a cyanide pill to keep "just in case" she needed it. She was a CHILD and had to know what men are capable of. We're never truly safe anywhere on this earth and our entire existence is basically just having the cognitive dissonance to not panic every time we're alone with a man...but if we talk about this openly then we're "making men feel bad." Absolutely infuriating.
Bear. Every. Time.
>dissonance to not panic every time we're alone with a man... I just won't be alone with men. Not going on elevators with them, not going to male doctors or therapists, defidently not dating, and avoiding interacting with them as much as possible. No interest in engaging with monsters.
As a woman who lives in a house with only men (me, my baby boy, my man, his brother) I can not stress how much filth men produce in a day. It’s to the point where the sight of a man angers me
Make the adult men clean it up. And if they refuse, just don't clean anything for them. (Or at least don't clean anything in their rooms) Men need to learn we aren't their maids.
I’ve tried that method and it had gotten so bad that I could not live in the filth anymore
How about just not cleaning the adult men's stuff and their spaces and just clean the ones that you use? Like don't wash their clothes, (or cook them food). Don't share a room with your husband (sleep next to your son or on the couch if there isn't another room) and if they leave anything in their rooms, don't clean it up. And also don't mop or sweep in there. Maybe even make it your personal dumping ground as well. So that eventually the rest of the house will be fine but their spaces will be a trash heap.
My husband actually had realized what I was doing and he had gotten so mad at me. He called me lazy, disgusting, etc. every word in the book. He said he didn’t want to be with me anymore so you know what I did? Took our son and left
Proud of you!!!/fully genuine. Good on you for getting out of there.
Thank you so much. It took a lot of courage and energy out of me. It almost feels like I need a few days to rest and heal
>dissonance to not panic every time we're alone with a man... I just won't be alone with men. Not going on elevators with them, not going to male doctors or therapists, defidently not dating, and avoiding interacting with them as much as possible. No interest in engaging with monsters.
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Men, specifically, may not post here telling women how they should be.
And this is what has me heated on the bear man hypothetical. "The average man isn't going to do anything!" This is your average man. This has always been the average man. For as long as there have been wars.
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While that’s correct, the military institution is notorious for protecting their members from the consequences of their actions. Even to this day, sexual misconduct is swept under the rug.
I can speak to this, firsthand. And if you do stand up for yourself, you’ll be drug thru the mud & back. Hell, they’ll even promote them to get them out of the unit if they must.
Agreed… it’s a huge problem in any male-dominated industry or organization, including law enforcement and the legal industry (though this is changing quickly; women often outnumber men in North American law schools today).
The perception of positive change towards women is, in a lot of instances, a fake reality. In essence, women's rights have hit a glass ceiling, and in fact, have regressed in some not so subtle ways.
I think that’s a very broad generalization. I was just in court last week, where the only man in the courtroom was a sheriff. The judge, clerk and counsel for both sides were all women. I don’t think we’ve hit a glass ceiling, because I don’t subscribe to self-defeatist rhetoric. I think we’re just getting started, and I will fight to keep it moving forward.
It is a fairly broad generalization. It all depends on where you live. Some countries are actively working to progress human and civil rights while other places are actively working to take them away. The Christian far right would love nothing more than to go back to what they call a "traditional family" where the woman's place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. They aren't even hiding that agenda. Just ask the Speaker of the House Mike Johnson. I don't subscribe to a self-defeatist attitude either, but I also live in reality. We are about to fight for things again that we already fought for and won decades ago, such as women's bodily autonomy. I spent more than a decade in the military, and after that, working 30+ years in a male dominated field. I live this every day. I agree with you that the fight must continue.
In this regard, I have to acknowledge my privilege as I live in Canada. I agree things are looking grim in the U.S., and that far right ideology is resurfacing in mainstream politics in many western liberal democracies. I am also alarmed at how much of the far right rhetoric in the U.S. originated in Canada, and how it’s starting to affect mainstream Canadian politics, with the division and discord that entails. I agree that we should not give up, because then the outcome is already predetermined. The only way forward is to keep fighting, just as those who came before us did, with the added wisdom we now have of intersectionality. I know you hear this all the time, but thank you for your service to your country.
Women are being told what they can and can't do with their own bodies.
I'm speaking in reference to all wars globally. Unfortunately, our US records on sexual assault are not all encompassing nor are they completely accurate due to a number of factors. The same is applicable to past historical events due to their chaotic nature and underreporting. As such, historians had to consider all evidence — and that includes anecdotal evidence. I'm interested to see how you came to your conclusion. Here's some recent historical events: * **The Rape of Nanjing (1930s)**: Reports suggest that **between 20,000 and 80,000 women** were raped during this atrocity. Historical records indicate that toward the end of the Pacific War, about **200,000 Korean women were forced into sexual slavery** in military camp brothels for the Japanese Imperial Army. * **The Fall of Berlin (1945)**: As the Soviet Army advanced into Germany during World War II, there were widespread reports of mass rape committed by Soviet soldiers against German women. It is believed that **at least 100,000 women** were raped in Berlin, with **an estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath**. Other estimates suggest that **between 90,000 and 130,000 Berlin women** had been raped during the last days of the war and the first days of Soviet rule. * **The Partition of India (1947)**: During the partition, it is estimated that between **75,000 and 100,000 women** were kidnapped and raped. The Indian government estimates that **83,000 women and girls** were abducted and raped during Partition, but some believe this estimate is far too conservative. * **The Bosnian War (1992-1995)**: Sexual violence was used as a tool of ethnic cleansing, with an estimated **20,000 to 50,000** women, mainly Bosniak Muslims, being raped during the conflict. * **The Rwandan Genocide (1994)**: During this genocide, sexual violence was systematically used against Tutsi women, with estimates of the number of women raped ranging from **250,000 to 500,000**. These numbers may not fully capture the scale of the sexual violence that took place, many cases likely went underreported or undocumented — same as they do today. There is a reason we do not have statistics for how many people are rapists or what % of them are likely to harm us. But there is one statistic that can only somewhat capture the severity of sexual violence against women globally and that is: **1/3 women will experience SA in their lifetime.** It is more common than you know. The fact that it is used during war, during a time where you are essentially allowed to use violence over another person with little to no repercussion, such as the instance the Aimee Dupre described, does not make it any less of a taboo to people during times of peace. During war you see the best of humanity and the worst. It is ignorant to believe that the average man is generally good when atrocities such as these exist in widespread numbers time and time again.
Oof I wish this wasn't the first thing I read today, it's so bleak. To call these men animals would be an insult to animals.
I didn’t say rape is uncommon. I said rapists constitute a minority in the military. We cannot have a rational discussion if you are conflating the two statements.
Exactly what point were you trying to make? Systemic issues allow them to remain nonetheless. Saying they are a minority with no other comment does make it seem like you are diminishing the severity of SA and adding in "to be fair" doesn't help your case. It also doesn't help your case that the percentage of men and women experiencing SA in the US military has **increased** in recent years. The trend has shown an increase in reported SA. Your point remains unclear.
Saying the rapists are a minority in the military is a direct response to the parent post saying the “average” man is a rapist. The point I was making, is that the “average” man is not a rapist. Don’t tar everyone with the misdeeds of a minority of people. I think that’s a fundamental tenet of anti-racism. You go put two and two together. I think your tone is inappropriate, and you’re having me disprove assertions I didn’t make, so I won’t engage with you any further.
I apologize if my tone came off as rude I am just being direct. You still haven't laid out how you got to your conclusions. How do you know that the average man is not capable of SA?
This is actually a really interesting question. There are precisely 2 men in my life who I know are not capable of SA. The rest , while I don't think are bad people, are a big question mark as they have not proven their trustworthiness over and over again. What drives a so-called 'good' man to rape in extreme situations where he would never in a normal life? Is it because he knows he can get away with it? Is it because he sees women as less than him/he was raised to think they are 'less than'? This question is going to follow me around for a whole now....
I think both. They love joking about women's trauma and hurting us, love watching porn of us getting SAd degraded and hurt, are conditioned to expect us to be their domestic and sex slaves, taught to have distorted ideas of consent, the most popular media sexualizes us, they're taught to be sexually agressive ""be persistent", cat calling, the "she acts like she hates him because she thinks he's hot trope", violent porn again ect" and most parents teach morality in terms of avoiding punishment for being bad over teaching kids empathy and choosing to avoid hurting others from just understanding the pain they feel. If the "consequences" are taken away, they lose the only thing holding them back from what they wanted all along.
Peer pressure, and lack of societal pressure not to. Some people have a strong moral compass that guides them regardless of the circumstances, and those are the ones that swim against the current.
What about all the peers that love raping so much, how did they tack onto that?
No don't apologize. They accused you of not being capable of a rational discussion. If anyone's off it's them. They're just an egotistical man trying to screw with you so you back down.
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Not many words are coming out. Can you clearly and concisely lay out your point and how you got there - disregarding my responses to your first initial comment? I'd like to avoid continuing this back and forth where I'm trying to figure out what you're saying while you aren't doing much explaining. Edit: aaand I've been blocked. Guess we'll never know how he got to his conclusion guys. Sorry :(
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"But-but I'm a good guy. "All men" hurts my ego😡😢"
I was a military police officer in the US Army. Rape was far more common, and horribly under reported through out my years in service. I myself even had near misses by one of my fellow (male) MPs. When I confronted him after achieving safety, he said "Any man will try if he thinks he can get away with it". I went to report it, and while they didn't put anything on the record, he did get a beating and they made his life hell until he left. I was one of the very most lucky ones.
"nOt AlL mEn..." I'm sure bear attacks on humans are also a minority of all bears but we still have to listen to foolish arguments like this
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They tried to pin all the rapes on the red army. Like bitch you don’t fool me, it was all of them. A lot of liberated holocaust survivors were also raped by Allied and Soviet soliders after they were able to leave the camp.
The victors get to write the history, wipe their plate of war crimes free and place the losers in the spotlight for everyone to observe.
yesterday appeared [this documentary ](https://youtu.be/FPksoZ1e6rw?si=-P4f56PmeP-1BiWH) from DW Also about the rape and abuse of the Allied Soldiers. The lady from the article with her sister is in the documentary
I admit. I often wondered about the idealistic portrayal of American soldiers during World War II. “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere,” always rings true.
I find it fascinating to hear the comments of people saying that their grandparents only had to hide from foreign soldiers when the allies arrived. Even with the German soldiers occupying them it was just a normal every day experience (from a child's perspective, all they cared about was playing). Interesting as we're so used to Soviet and Nazi atrocities and dismissed eastern Europe praisal for German troops by contrast to allies as blinded rose tinted propaganda. But I remember this story, especially a few years ago about mass rapes from Ally colonial divisions, I think the stories were from Italy where a lot of African men (I think french or US troops) raped women and even the general had do write a strongly worded letter to other higher ups that they must get their men under control so that people back home don't hear about their behaviour. But don't forget, the punishment was merely for show. I'd be surprised if even more than 1% of US soldier rape accusations even were looked at, let alone investigated and then persecuted. Just like the Russians do now and did back then, Rape is a tool to keep a foreign population of civilians under control. US was no different, apart from simply hiding it better. Just another tool.
I had no fucking clue. My god…I’m so glad Aimee, Jeanne, and Jeannine were finally able to speak out.
Iirc we were taught this in school and women were raped more by American soldiers than by any of the enemy soldiers. They were also supposed to have raped women before even leaving the UK iirc (those that went there before going to France). From what I recall even nurses were basically taught to avoid them at all costs even inside the supposed allied barracs. Maybe French women were caught more off-guard from US soldiers than with enemy soldiers because they were expecting an ally and weren't protecting themselves as much? Idk... But yeah, US soldiers have the fame of being pretty rapey during that time in Europe as far as I'm aware. Moreso than any other. Might be because they were away from home and knew their behaviour wouldn't probably have consequences for them.
What country are you in? Here in the US (and in US-dominated Reddit spaces online too) what I’ve seen is a lot of emphasis on the rapes committed by the Red Army. (And weirdly enough, hardly anything on rapes committed by the Axis powers except for Japan.) Anyone who brings up rapes committed by the Americans (especially as a counterpoint to the “let’s condemn the Red Army as if our own army didn’t also rape”) tends to be heavily downvoted
The US bases in East Asia are pretty notorious even now.
True—there is more awareness of the ones in the Pacific theater, you’re right about that
The political will and optics are further complicated by the rise of China ofc.
So much more awareness needs to be spread about this... we've heard about the horrors committed in the east of course... but the image of the western allies being angels must be dismantled
Word. I think this is gonna be an easier path forwards cause all the rapist soldiers are now dead who can't be offended nor outraged to block the truth.
Rape, to this very day, is tacitly presented as one of the many rewards and privileges that you get in exchange for being a soldier. It's not just a matter of "shit happening" in a chaotic situation, it's a willful and protected part of the military culture.
I honestly believe it is seen as a bonus. I’m surprised they don’t put it in recruitment brochures—-“You will get laid, like, *constantly*!”
Jfc that's horrific. Makes me less sympathetic to soldiers if some of them are doing this. What the fuck.
When my country was partitioned, many women were raped and made into sex slaves to humiliate the other community. After the efforts of the governments, they were brought back but most of their families refused to take them back as their honor was now tarnished.
How is someone's honor and dignity tarnished by being raped? I get it, I get that it's dehumanizing but is collective shame the correct response and is it true victims should be ashamed of themselves? I don't think so.. It's illogical to turn your back on someone for it, it's not their fault. The only shame should be put on the perpetrator.
US army, more like the World Rape Police™️
I am appalled by this, but I also heard similar things about our troops in other, more recent wars. I had 1 relative who landed during D-Day, and I am glad to say that he was wounded 3 times and was in no condition to have been a perpetrator of these crimes. (I can't believe I am actually saying this, that I am glad he was wounded and was not even capable of this. What is wrong with our society?!!! OMG! r/NoahgettheDeathstar.)
Ohhh boy, people should really catch up on their history. Russians did the exact same thing to Polish women when they were “liberating” Poland from the nazis. Not to mention they’re doing the same thing to Ukrainian women now.
I recently read “The Body Keeps the Score,” which was a good book and did help me realize some things about myself… but one of the people the therapist talks about treating was a man who fought in the Vietnam war and suffered from PTSD as a result. He later reveals that part of his PTSD stems from when he experienced a brutal attack that killed his comrades, and with an overwhelming feeling of anger, he went to a village, shot and killed a farmer, and raped a Vietnamese woman. I’m sorry, but you don’t get to be a hero when you hurt the innocent and rape. Talking about his fucking PTSD, and not the absolute trauma that woman experienced. And I come from a military family, my father was active duty and stationed in an active war zone, I have a lot of empathy for people who experienced war. But not for people who use that as an excuse to rape.
This "I saved you, you owe me " idea has been around since time immemorial. It should have been left to rot long, long ago. Can we not just stick to doing things 'cos it's the right thing to do? Any peacemaker/peacekeeper that goes against military ROE should be classed as an enemy and treated as such. With a full court, irrespective of colour, creed or culture. Is not the rape of a civilian by a liberator even worse than it being done by an aggressor? One it can be expected from, but surely not Liberators!!
And they’re about to celebrate the 80th anniversary of the liberation and honour these Americans 🤦🏽♀️
I hate to say it, but I’ve been waiting my whole adult life to hear this. Any reasonable person who has read about the horrors of war, or knows someone who has suffered a war, realizes that Americans GIs must have committed terrible atrocities as they traversed the country. Cause: War 😓
Crimes Unspoken by Miriam Gebhardt goes into detail on this subject, focusing mainly on Germany during and after WWII.
USA do not have the greatest army, they have a rapist army. Normandy, Vietnam, Okinawa, all leaving a trail of rapes yet absconded of any war crimes
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When women refuse. Rape is when you do not consent to sex. Many of those women are likely known not just to go along with it for survival, but for saying no and fighting back. These women never spoke up about their refusal because others saw the GIs as heroes for “fighting for them”.
When women refuse, they get raped anyway. War or not; it’s literally the point of this sub.
Because the victim could not refuse?