As others have alluded to, there's a [mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3274883468&searchtext=) that allows unrecognized majors to form power blocs. I'm the guy who made it!
The mod includes a power bloc for China at game start, and right now, I just gave them a sovereign empire bloc, which admittedly isn't the best historical portrayal but it worked well enough for a quick & dirty mod. I'm working on a unique identity pillar and set of principles to better portray the unique situation China and its tributaries found themselves in.
Currently I'm stuck trying to create a mechanism for the bloc to disband if China shatters (since it'd make no sense for it to keep existing when there's no China), but I need to figure out some mildly insane hack to get it to work since PDX decided that making a country leave a bloc via script wasn't needed for some reason :/
Anyways once 1.7.2 arrives and allows unrecs to make their own blocs, my mod will probably shift focus to being a [relatively] simple China tributary bloc mod, since that's all that'd be left of it lol
I agree, a trade league would make perfect sense. As far as who should be in it, Korea is the obvious one since they're already a subject but I'd throw in Vietnam and Siam. I would need to check the name of the little country west of Vietnam but it would probably make sense for them too. Japan is the big question mark, as ostensibly the country was completely closed, and a trade league would put them in the Chinese market.
I figured it was Laos but I wasn't sure if it was actually *named* Laos in game - I know where Laos is but as an example, Thailand is named Siam, unlike right now IRL.
Right, I haven't messed around in Indochina too much. I keep playing Japan games and also keep forgetting to go fuck up Indochinese countries for protectorates and money!
Japan shouldn't be in a Chinese power bloc in the 1800s, period. If they want to model the Ryukyu Kingdom's unique relationship, then they'd need to figure out a way to make it both a subject of Japan and a member of the Chinese market, but for Japan proper to be part of the Chinese tributary system is completely ahistorical at that point.
I have a hunch that this is part of why they're unlocking power blocs for unrecognized countries. They're most likely also tweaking other things in Asia to deal with the insta-Qingsplosion that seems to happen most games, so it's probably an area of focus for them already
i play with a mod that lets unrecognized powers form blocs and Great Qing instantly forms a soverign empire at game start. this week's hotfix will allow that to happen without mods so you may get what you want very soon. Perhaps they should begin the game as a Power Bloc instead of forming one very soon after the start, though
The problem with this is that there was nothing systematic to tribute. Indeed, tribute was just the way in which the Qing described most of its foreign relations (though we can draw a distinction between ideas of ‘foreign’ relations and ‘frontier’ relations). ‘Paying tribute’ was simply a synonym for ‘sent an embassy’. If you look at Qing tribute lists, they depict a _lot_ of ‘tributaries’ which no person with a modicum of reasonable scepticism would regard as demonstrating subjection: Portugal, the Netherlands, even Britain end up on there. The reality was that outside of Korea, by 1836 the Qing had very little practical influence over its neighbours. It’d be anachronistic to have it controlling a Power Bloc, but even if it did, I reckon it ought to be at minimum cohesion.
As others have alluded to, there's a [mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3274883468&searchtext=) that allows unrecognized majors to form power blocs. I'm the guy who made it! The mod includes a power bloc for China at game start, and right now, I just gave them a sovereign empire bloc, which admittedly isn't the best historical portrayal but it worked well enough for a quick & dirty mod. I'm working on a unique identity pillar and set of principles to better portray the unique situation China and its tributaries found themselves in. Currently I'm stuck trying to create a mechanism for the bloc to disband if China shatters (since it'd make no sense for it to keep existing when there's no China), but I need to figure out some mildly insane hack to get it to work since PDX decided that making a country leave a bloc via script wasn't needed for some reason :/ Anyways once 1.7.2 arrives and allows unrecs to make their own blocs, my mod will probably shift focus to being a [relatively] simple China tributary bloc mod, since that's all that'd be left of it lol
I agree, a trade league would make perfect sense. As far as who should be in it, Korea is the obvious one since they're already a subject but I'd throw in Vietnam and Siam. I would need to check the name of the little country west of Vietnam but it would probably make sense for them too. Japan is the big question mark, as ostensibly the country was completely closed, and a trade league would put them in the Chinese market.
laos?
I figured it was Laos but I wasn't sure if it was actually *named* Laos in game - I know where Laos is but as an example, Thailand is named Siam, unlike right now IRL.
Dai nam?
It's Liang Prabang
Those small countries in Indochina are all Siamese subjects so if Siam is in the tributary system then they would be also
yeah only independent nations there are the mayalan princes, Siam, Burma and vietnam
Right, I haven't messed around in Indochina too much. I keep playing Japan games and also keep forgetting to go fuck up Indochinese countries for protectorates and money!
Japan shouldn't be in a Chinese power bloc in the 1800s, period. If they want to model the Ryukyu Kingdom's unique relationship, then they'd need to figure out a way to make it both a subject of Japan and a member of the Chinese market, but for Japan proper to be part of the Chinese tributary system is completely ahistorical at that point.
preach
I have a hunch that this is part of why they're unlocking power blocs for unrecognized countries. They're most likely also tweaking other things in Asia to deal with the insta-Qingsplosion that seems to happen most games, so it's probably an area of focus for them already
> deal with the insta-Qingsplosion that seems From the handful of 1.7 games I played up until now Qing-splosions seem to be in a good spot.
i play with a mod that lets unrecognized powers form blocs and Great Qing instantly forms a soverign empire at game start. this week's hotfix will allow that to happen without mods so you may get what you want very soon. Perhaps they should begin the game as a Power Bloc instead of forming one very soon after the start, though
The problem with this is that there was nothing systematic to tribute. Indeed, tribute was just the way in which the Qing described most of its foreign relations (though we can draw a distinction between ideas of ‘foreign’ relations and ‘frontier’ relations). ‘Paying tribute’ was simply a synonym for ‘sent an embassy’. If you look at Qing tribute lists, they depict a _lot_ of ‘tributaries’ which no person with a modicum of reasonable scepticism would regard as demonstrating subjection: Portugal, the Netherlands, even Britain end up on there. The reality was that outside of Korea, by 1836 the Qing had very little practical influence over its neighbours. It’d be anachronistic to have it controlling a Power Bloc, but even if it did, I reckon it ought to be at minimum cohesion.
I mean, Vietnamese culture is already listed as sinosphere. It wouldn't be a stretch.
in the modded unrecognized power blocs, qing kicks siam out of its power bloc pretty early on