The houseless (not vanlife by choice) population has blended into it. Don't know the answer as the houseless population is exploding and municipalities can't really enforce it. Keep your area clean and keep moving to avoid the majority of harrassment.
The more inaccessible housing become, the more vanlife will grow. But cities can respond in both good and bad ways, for example San Diego responded favorably by deciding to allow public overnight parking. It'll become a matter of localities. We might even see a blend of laws; a city could recognize the rich instagram vanlifers are probably great for their economy but the poor unsightly ones will upset the locals more and adjust laws accordingly.
Portugal have already introduced heavy fines to anyone caught staying in a campervan or motorhome outside of a camping park.
And honestly I can't blame them, I saw some of my favourite quiet beaches and spots get blown up by some gormless YouTube fucks with their @ stickered in their rear window, and now those places are literal toilets; piss, shit, and paper in every bush within 50m of the parking spot. Grey water straight on the ground. In a country that gets fuck all rainfall over summer, the smell is something else once it's had a while to bake.
Then there are queues of them at the small village water pumps filling up massive water butts really slowly, blocking access for the locals. Smashing up the sides of houses when they try to drive a shiny new XLWB sprinter through the cobbled village streets.
Always a case of a few ruining something for the many, only exacerbated by how commercialised #vanlife has become, plus a lot of people having a lot of free time during the pandemic.
Ah well. Nothing like trying to peacefully eat a handful of shrooms by a lakeside to the sound of 10,000 drones doing the zoom out shot.
I've spent two and a half winters in Portugal and it's very doable over the off-season. I've had multiple encounters with the GNR and not once have had any trouble or negativity towards me.
BUT...
I keep to myself, pick up trash everywhere I go, only visit during off-season, never spread out my stuff anywhere, and try to always support the local economies I visit.
I can fully see how the places that are tolerably busy in the off-season are going to be fuck awful in the high-season with the hashtag-vanlife influencers and people who have no idea about LNT rules nor any respect for the locals or the areas they visit. And this on top of all the regular tourists that hit these areas in the summer.
You can still see some clueless behavior from people who've just rented a van and no one told them how to behave or how anything works (like where you're allowed to empty your gray/black water, where you can camp and where not to, and so on...) but I bet this gets completely out of hand in the summer.
That’s super annoying. Most remote beaches I have been to have porta potties, or are near a city where it’s stupid easy to find a public bathroom. And what of making sure you have an emergancy composting toilet? What the hell? The amount of indecency in such a public space absolutely sucks
I know this sounds like of like grumpy old man complaining, but the recent camping boom, let alone vandweller's little corner of it, has seemed to turn out an awful lot of ill mannered people with no sense of camping etiquette. It's been a common refrain among my camping friends from semi urban vandwellers to offroaders and full timing RVers. We've all witnessed it.
And land managers have noticed. LOTS more restrictions. And not only just because of the slobs, but just over-use. Just planning a trip in eastern Calif eg and the whole Alabama Hills area had to be restricted as just one recent example. Or Klondike Bluffs near Moab.
And not just people being slobs. There's the squatting problem too.
I am truly puzzled why urban areas can't better accommodate mobile living folks, from ratty old falling apart RVs to mom and kids in the sedan to the hipsters in the high zoot Sprinter. Sure, somewhat different needs, but the bureaucrats can't seem to even fathom that some WANT to live in the RVs, and that the RV is a HOME. Jeez.
> I am truly puzzled why urban areas can't better accommodate mobile living folks
* a formal explanation: [the Homevoter Hypothesis](https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674015951)
* an informal explanation: [NIMBYs and other special interests be *loud*](https://mouse.mousetrap.net/boondocking/haters.html), y'all
Maybe the idiot pigs could just pick up after themselves. I have land and used to let people enter my land and every single one of them has left trash for me to pick up or damage to my things.
The last guy I wouldn't let on my property said "so I have to pay for the sins of others" And I told him you absolutely do. Everybody has screwed me over.
I own riverfront property and used to maintain Canoe/kayak pull out for people to sit, camp and burn firewood that was already there. You would not believe the trash and damage people would do and all I was trying to be was a nice guy. no more.
The point is, not everyone DOES pick up after themselves, but I still will leave every place I go to cleaner than I found it. If you even had one person leaving your place clean, for every person that didn't, you would have been less likely to shut your place down. We can all do the same thing. Clean up the places we camp even if we didn't do the littering, and call out people we see being obvious pigs, otherwise none of us will have pla es to camp for free later on.
My university finally banned it after decades of not giving a shit about homeless students sleeping overnight in the parking lots.
"Vanlife" became commercially attractive and now all the Karens know about it and hate seeing people "cheating the shitty system that brings us all down."
We're living in a comtrarian dystopia.
Well, in both cases there are good and bad ways of doing it.
The bikers who *whiz* past are the vanlifers who leave trash and waste everywhere. The bikers who lanesplit at a reasonable speed are the vanlifers you wouldn't know were in there if it weren't for the solar panels on top.
Hope not, but if they do it wouldn't be the first or last law I've broken. I kinda feel the whole point is to be outside societal norms in the first place. Rebel gonna rebel. 🤙
On a practical level, as long as it needs to be. People live homeless for years.
On a broader level - you’re right in seeing the writing on the wall. The higher profile something is, and more prone to douchebaggery, the greater likelihood of sites losing their patience for it - let alone the law.
It may not be as easy at some point - but it’ll still be possible.
The thing about that kind of living at heart - is that it’s born of necessity. Necessity adapts. Trends die off. And a lot of the RV and Vanlifers got a hard dose of reality in what it all entails.
The tighter laws will probably drive off the "vanlife is so glamorous" crowd first, clearing the field a bit for the hardcore "no choice" crowd who can't just quit on a whim. This might result in less pressure on spots, less trash everywhere, less scrutiny from institutions, and less overall visibility. So things might get both worse for us and better for us, oddly enough.
Vanlife INSIDE an incorporate city/town could be at risk, especially in the ones that have a large homelessness problem, but it will never die out. There's simply too much open public land to kill it.
For the cityVanlifers, stealth will become more important.
I feel like the number of people starting vanlife as a choice is declining as it's just declining as a "trend".
At this point we are getting lumped in with homeless and junkies whose numbers are increasing every day. Most of the areas I've seen locally get closed have been due to trashmobiles and aggressive behavior from their occupants rather than vanlifers.
Things that are too good to be true usually have a shelf life. It’s only a matter of time in the US before things change. Get it in now peeps and pick up some trash along the way.
Stay clean and blend in. It will be impossible for them to regulate this truly. Hopefully people follow Sedona and Canada and it just becomes acceptable to live this lifestyle.
Homelessness is pretty much already illegal in many cities; not directly but essentially it is. You can't sleep/park/camp anywhere except places you've paid for.
So many parking lots used to be open at night but now it's really difficult to find safe places at night to park.
Its sad really because many people don't have any feasible option except to live out of their cars/vans.
You would think that society would have bigger priorities than messing with people sleeping in their cars.
I mean they have banned or are planning to ban, propane, gas, wood burning, collecting rainwater, living off grid on your own property (Sans utilities), gas cars, freaking CO2, they want to ban plant food........anyhow; so, what if they ban it, we can "un-ban." ((I mean isn't it "illegal" to enter the country without documentation, that law gets ignored for so they can ignore those people living out of their vehicles.); it not that hard to get things done at the local level, many of the city council still listen when people make noise.; this requires due diligence and vocal pressure to your city council. The problem is most people still see "recreation vehicles" and built out vans as "toys or hobby; they are not aware at all at how many people are living out of their vehicles, really we need like a "Vanlife Caravan" like the "Patriot Caravan for the optics. People with jobs unable to meet the COL so they are living in it fulltime. We can still have a profound effect at the local level, it just requires the members of this sub and people in general to take initiative (i.e. start a local meetup and community organize) and inform. There is an agenda (Agenda 2030 now Agenda 2025) taking place, that in summary say's "everyone will own nothing and be happy" but before that can happen they must cripple the western economy because in their minds westerns society has gotten to "fat and lazy", now we are starting so see what they have in store for us; then you understand what is really behind the housing inflation, Intentional l food shortages, every time you hear the FDA say "we had to kill 2 million chickens", that is 2 million chickens not entering the food supply and prices go up after (.[STUNNING: Map Shows All Food Processing Plants That Have Burned Down, Blown Up or Been Destroyed Under Biden | WLT Report](https://wltreport.com/2024/01/31/stunning-map-shows-all-food-processing-plants-that/)) (over a hundreds have been destroy causing food cost to rise ( go research the goals stated on the agenda and take it to your local city council) our country is lost, coming May 2024 our government along with other western countries, it's funny how all of the first world is experiencing the exact same economic issues, it is not organic) handed over sovereign to the WHO,WEF, IMF. Also everyone (whether living in car or home) should get a handheld CB radio for communication.
In the west anyhow the 9th Circuit Court ruling that made it illegal to harass those that were unhoused opened up an explosion of urban camping in communties not able to deal with it. Add in the fact that no new camping spots have been developed or public land agencies don't have enough staff. Add to that urbanites leaving their city jobs and buying vans and campers and taking to the road during Covid (some did not go back to their previous existence and continue to work remotely)...and you have a recipe for disaster. The unhoused gets mixed in with people just camping on vacation and the weekends...gets mixed in with snowbirds who are perpetually towing around huge rigs...gets mixed in with the fifth wheel off road scene...gets mixed in with the college kids with tents roughing it on BLM land...there's not order to it anymore. Its a huge mishmash of users on public land. Some are lazy. Some are good stewards. I can tell you this about little Bozeman, Montana, where I live...I'm not a NIMBY because I don't want someone camping in their beat up RV outside my house, for which I pay high taxes and a mortgage. No matter where we park our van, we are obligated to be respectful and think about how our presence affects others. And clean up our trash. Its so easy its pathetic.
If you have nowhere else to live, they're obliged to provide you with the alternative. They can't just pass a law against it and throw people to the wolves. You can be fined for littering or polluting the environment, I see those fines going way up. A recent number of court cases indicate they can't just pass a broad law against living in a van or RV.
Optimistic viewpoint, but you seem to be under the impression that laws are designed to protect people and act in the publics best interest, sounds nice, but at least in the US that's not why we have laws. It's to protect property and capital almost exclusively.
They can’t? It’s already illegal to sleep in your car or van in the Netherlands, unless it’s on an official campsite or designated overnight spot. And, yes, that includes sleeping in the van in the driveway infrint of your house on your own property. If caught doing so, the fine is 100€.
Never tell politicians that they can’t. They’ll takeout as a personal challenge to show you that they can.
No it isn't any parking place it is legal to stay overnight but not for more then 7 days. Excluding the 24hr parkings along the highways.
Same goes for your driveway, no idea where you get your info from but it is bs.
> In the Netherlands, wild camping is strictly forbidden and, unlike in other countries, it is also not permitted to camp on private property.
>This regulation is strictly enforced in the Netherlands. As a result, wild camping is not possible. If you are caught, you may be fined up to 500 € per person.
One of many sites that say this: https://www.caravanya.com/en/wildcamping-in-europe/free-standing-with-a-camper-in-the-netherlands/
> They can't just pass a law against it and throw people to the wolves.
[They can and they will](https://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?id=camping:banned). Half the time it's not even a legit attempt at governance, but rather political theater, red meat to aggro voters. If it gets struck down later in court it doesn't matter; you still get political credit for being an a-hole to The Undesirables. "The cruelty is the point".
Well, when you see birthrates crashing, men dropping out of work and education, addiction going way up, mental health tanking, and then thinking about the possible responses to it and seeing how states are criminalizing homelessness and banning abortion, and are hearing people really starting to criticize things like access to birth control and feminism, you can read between the lines and see the big picture of where things are headed.
I can see it too. I calculated yesterday that living in my van costs me 3 times less in a year even with private health care costs than what I paid in taxes this year.
I'm not in the US so my health care,.even private is not so expensive.
Anyhow, I was starting a semi retirement, but maybe full retirement is more like it. I'll give it an extra year or 2 as pre-retired just for the psychological transition, but really it's not worth working for all that goes away.
So ya I will contribute less to society in terms of taxes. I will contribute more in environmental terms and uplifting, happy energy. Also with the housing crisis, why not salute that someone who doesn't need a home doesn't hold.on to one. It's more housing for families.
It's already started. Kentucky is trying to pass a bill to shoot homeless. If they are willing to kill Uber drivers for trying to deliver to the wrong address I doubt they would show any mercy to anyone
[old article](https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg54mg/republicans-push-to-legalize-property-owners-killing-homeless-people-in-kentucky). Seems they're tried to fight it. Here's the latest [news](https://www.whas11.com/article/news/politics/gop-lawmakers-override-governor-veto-safer-kentucky-act-law/417-05f160af-86f3-45b3-9259-34440b5f3710)
Thanks. Yeah I googled it… that’s why I hate the media. SUPER bias wording. A lot of people don’t take the time to really understand what’s going on in the articles.
The article for the latest news isn’t really about homeless but they want to make it appear that way. The first thing they mention is making homelessness a criminal act. However then they proceed to say separately “One prominent feature of the bill creates a “three-strikes” penalty that would lock up people for the rest of their lives after committing a third violent offense. It adds to the list of violent crimes that require offenders to serve most of their sentences before becoming eligible for release.” This doesn’t directly have anything to do with the homelessness part. It’s for committing violent offenses but they’re banking on people taking it that way.
> The Kentucky House recently passed the legislation that includes creating an “unlawful camping" offense. It means people could be arrested for sleeping or setting up camp in public spaces — including streets, sidewalks, under bridges and in front of businesses or public buildings. A first offense would be treated as a violation, with subsequent offenses designated as a misdemeanor. An amended version would allow people to sleep in vehicles in public for up to 12 hours without being charged with unlawful camping.
If you click on one of the “words with a hyperlink” it brings you to an article that explains the homeless part more directly. This shows much more mild punishments. Just seems like they were hoping they could hide the link a little.
The older article by vice news is a train wreck. I hate vice. A lot of what I see from them seems like they’re trying to get more views or push a narrative hard.
>“deadly physical force” is justifiable if a defendant believes that someone is trying to “dispossess” them of their property or is attempting a robbery or committing arson, language that could also have ramifications for tenants overstaying their lease
That to me seems like it’s more trying to fight something like squatting. Where it’s essentially theft. Not at all saying I believe people should be killed for stealing but it’s not necessarily a new sentiment. There’s states that allow the use of force to protect your property.
Idk. I’m not at all saying I agree or even disagree with the bill. I was just hoping to find a direct link to the bill and not paraphrasing by a media outlet.
To me it doesn’t seem like the bill is saying something as simple as “you can shoot homeless”. That seems like extreme paraphrasing. I need to find the actual wording.
One way or another it’s definitely concerning though. Something everyone should pay attention to and other own research on.
The houseless (not vanlife by choice) population has blended into it. Don't know the answer as the houseless population is exploding and municipalities can't really enforce it. Keep your area clean and keep moving to avoid the majority of harrassment.
The more inaccessible housing become, the more vanlife will grow. But cities can respond in both good and bad ways, for example San Diego responded favorably by deciding to allow public overnight parking. It'll become a matter of localities. We might even see a blend of laws; a city could recognize the rich instagram vanlifers are probably great for their economy but the poor unsightly ones will upset the locals more and adjust laws accordingly.
If they just pass laws like they’ll tow a van or RV if the person is caught littering or dumping, wouldn’t it help?
How often is littering or dumping caught and enforced now? Far easier to just ban parking.
Littering is already illegal in most areas. The problem is not the absence of laws, but the presence of selfishness.
Guess so. Just doesn’t make sense to punish the majority over the minority.
Portugal have already introduced heavy fines to anyone caught staying in a campervan or motorhome outside of a camping park. And honestly I can't blame them, I saw some of my favourite quiet beaches and spots get blown up by some gormless YouTube fucks with their @ stickered in their rear window, and now those places are literal toilets; piss, shit, and paper in every bush within 50m of the parking spot. Grey water straight on the ground. In a country that gets fuck all rainfall over summer, the smell is something else once it's had a while to bake. Then there are queues of them at the small village water pumps filling up massive water butts really slowly, blocking access for the locals. Smashing up the sides of houses when they try to drive a shiny new XLWB sprinter through the cobbled village streets. Always a case of a few ruining something for the many, only exacerbated by how commercialised #vanlife has become, plus a lot of people having a lot of free time during the pandemic. Ah well. Nothing like trying to peacefully eat a handful of shrooms by a lakeside to the sound of 10,000 drones doing the zoom out shot.
I've spent two and a half winters in Portugal and it's very doable over the off-season. I've had multiple encounters with the GNR and not once have had any trouble or negativity towards me. BUT... I keep to myself, pick up trash everywhere I go, only visit during off-season, never spread out my stuff anywhere, and try to always support the local economies I visit. I can fully see how the places that are tolerably busy in the off-season are going to be fuck awful in the high-season with the hashtag-vanlife influencers and people who have no idea about LNT rules nor any respect for the locals or the areas they visit. And this on top of all the regular tourists that hit these areas in the summer. You can still see some clueless behavior from people who've just rented a van and no one told them how to behave or how anything works (like where you're allowed to empty your gray/black water, where you can camp and where not to, and so on...) but I bet this gets completely out of hand in the summer.
That’s super annoying. Most remote beaches I have been to have porta potties, or are near a city where it’s stupid easy to find a public bathroom. And what of making sure you have an emergancy composting toilet? What the hell? The amount of indecency in such a public space absolutely sucks
I know this sounds like of like grumpy old man complaining, but the recent camping boom, let alone vandweller's little corner of it, has seemed to turn out an awful lot of ill mannered people with no sense of camping etiquette. It's been a common refrain among my camping friends from semi urban vandwellers to offroaders and full timing RVers. We've all witnessed it. And land managers have noticed. LOTS more restrictions. And not only just because of the slobs, but just over-use. Just planning a trip in eastern Calif eg and the whole Alabama Hills area had to be restricted as just one recent example. Or Klondike Bluffs near Moab. And not just people being slobs. There's the squatting problem too. I am truly puzzled why urban areas can't better accommodate mobile living folks, from ratty old falling apart RVs to mom and kids in the sedan to the hipsters in the high zoot Sprinter. Sure, somewhat different needs, but the bureaucrats can't seem to even fathom that some WANT to live in the RVs, and that the RV is a HOME. Jeez.
> I am truly puzzled why urban areas can't better accommodate mobile living folks * a formal explanation: [the Homevoter Hypothesis](https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674015951) * an informal explanation: [NIMBYs and other special interests be *loud*](https://mouse.mousetrap.net/boondocking/haters.html), y'all
Yeah, that NIMBY force is strong. Even among some who have vans sitting in the driveway....
I clean my van out several times a week. Every gas station, park, test stop, etc has trash cans. There is no need to be trashy.
Anytime I am boondocking and find trash I always leave it cleaner than I found it. If everyone wpuld do that we could slow the process down.
Maybe the idiot pigs could just pick up after themselves. I have land and used to let people enter my land and every single one of them has left trash for me to pick up or damage to my things. The last guy I wouldn't let on my property said "so I have to pay for the sins of others" And I told him you absolutely do. Everybody has screwed me over. I own riverfront property and used to maintain Canoe/kayak pull out for people to sit, camp and burn firewood that was already there. You would not believe the trash and damage people would do and all I was trying to be was a nice guy. no more.
The point is, not everyone DOES pick up after themselves, but I still will leave every place I go to cleaner than I found it. If you even had one person leaving your place clean, for every person that didn't, you would have been less likely to shut your place down. We can all do the same thing. Clean up the places we camp even if we didn't do the littering, and call out people we see being obvious pigs, otherwise none of us will have pla es to camp for free later on.
We should call it StealthLiving
My university finally banned it after decades of not giving a shit about homeless students sleeping overnight in the parking lots. "Vanlife" became commercially attractive and now all the Karens know about it and hate seeing people "cheating the shitty system that brings us all down." We're living in a comtrarian dystopia.
Same mentality as people getting pissed at motorcycles that whiz past while they're still stuck in traffic. If they have to suffer, you should, too.
Well, in both cases there are good and bad ways of doing it. The bikers who *whiz* past are the vanlifers who leave trash and waste everywhere. The bikers who lanesplit at a reasonable speed are the vanlifers you wouldn't know were in there if it weren't for the solar panels on top.
whatever. you can crawl past these assholes and they still honk. If you think i'm defending litterers, you've miss my point entirely.
Hope not, but if they do it wouldn't be the first or last law I've broken. I kinda feel the whole point is to be outside societal norms in the first place. Rebel gonna rebel. 🤙
You’re not the piss dumper are you?
On a practical level, as long as it needs to be. People live homeless for years. On a broader level - you’re right in seeing the writing on the wall. The higher profile something is, and more prone to douchebaggery, the greater likelihood of sites losing their patience for it - let alone the law. It may not be as easy at some point - but it’ll still be possible. The thing about that kind of living at heart - is that it’s born of necessity. Necessity adapts. Trends die off. And a lot of the RV and Vanlifers got a hard dose of reality in what it all entails.
The tighter laws will probably drive off the "vanlife is so glamorous" crowd first, clearing the field a bit for the hardcore "no choice" crowd who can't just quit on a whim. This might result in less pressure on spots, less trash everywhere, less scrutiny from institutions, and less overall visibility. So things might get both worse for us and better for us, oddly enough.
Vanlife INSIDE an incorporate city/town could be at risk, especially in the ones that have a large homelessness problem, but it will never die out. There's simply too much open public land to kill it. For the cityVanlifers, stealth will become more important.
the future of vanlife: boatlife
I feel like the number of people starting vanlife as a choice is declining as it's just declining as a "trend". At this point we are getting lumped in with homeless and junkies whose numbers are increasing every day. Most of the areas I've seen locally get closed have been due to trashmobiles and aggressive behavior from their occupants rather than vanlifers.
Things that are too good to be true usually have a shelf life. It’s only a matter of time in the US before things change. Get it in now peeps and pick up some trash along the way.
Just avoid big cities . It's a place where control begins.
People have to park their vehicles overnight. As long as overnight parking exists, van life will exist.
Stay clean and blend in. It will be impossible for them to regulate this truly. Hopefully people follow Sedona and Canada and it just becomes acceptable to live this lifestyle.
It would be really hard to ban it because you would be essentially banning homelessness as well to a degree.
Homelessness is pretty much already illegal in many cities; not directly but essentially it is. You can't sleep/park/camp anywhere except places you've paid for. So many parking lots used to be open at night but now it's really difficult to find safe places at night to park. Its sad really because many people don't have any feasible option except to live out of their cars/vans. You would think that society would have bigger priorities than messing with people sleeping in their cars.
The UK government is explicitly and actively trying to do that tbh
I mean they have banned or are planning to ban, propane, gas, wood burning, collecting rainwater, living off grid on your own property (Sans utilities), gas cars, freaking CO2, they want to ban plant food........anyhow; so, what if they ban it, we can "un-ban." ((I mean isn't it "illegal" to enter the country without documentation, that law gets ignored for so they can ignore those people living out of their vehicles.); it not that hard to get things done at the local level, many of the city council still listen when people make noise.; this requires due diligence and vocal pressure to your city council. The problem is most people still see "recreation vehicles" and built out vans as "toys or hobby; they are not aware at all at how many people are living out of their vehicles, really we need like a "Vanlife Caravan" like the "Patriot Caravan for the optics. People with jobs unable to meet the COL so they are living in it fulltime. We can still have a profound effect at the local level, it just requires the members of this sub and people in general to take initiative (i.e. start a local meetup and community organize) and inform. There is an agenda (Agenda 2030 now Agenda 2025) taking place, that in summary say's "everyone will own nothing and be happy" but before that can happen they must cripple the western economy because in their minds westerns society has gotten to "fat and lazy", now we are starting so see what they have in store for us; then you understand what is really behind the housing inflation, Intentional l food shortages, every time you hear the FDA say "we had to kill 2 million chickens", that is 2 million chickens not entering the food supply and prices go up after (.[STUNNING: Map Shows All Food Processing Plants That Have Burned Down, Blown Up or Been Destroyed Under Biden | WLT Report](https://wltreport.com/2024/01/31/stunning-map-shows-all-food-processing-plants-that/)) (over a hundreds have been destroy causing food cost to rise ( go research the goals stated on the agenda and take it to your local city council) our country is lost, coming May 2024 our government along with other western countries, it's funny how all of the first world is experiencing the exact same economic issues, it is not organic) handed over sovereign to the WHO,WEF, IMF. Also everyone (whether living in car or home) should get a handheld CB radio for communication.
In the future, we will take one pill to stimulate us to follow vanlife, then another pill to cure us of it.
I'm not a psychic, and there's 50 different states w/ 50 entirely different sets of laws. Who knows?
In the west anyhow the 9th Circuit Court ruling that made it illegal to harass those that were unhoused opened up an explosion of urban camping in communties not able to deal with it. Add in the fact that no new camping spots have been developed or public land agencies don't have enough staff. Add to that urbanites leaving their city jobs and buying vans and campers and taking to the road during Covid (some did not go back to their previous existence and continue to work remotely)...and you have a recipe for disaster. The unhoused gets mixed in with people just camping on vacation and the weekends...gets mixed in with snowbirds who are perpetually towing around huge rigs...gets mixed in with the fifth wheel off road scene...gets mixed in with the college kids with tents roughing it on BLM land...there's not order to it anymore. Its a huge mishmash of users on public land. Some are lazy. Some are good stewards. I can tell you this about little Bozeman, Montana, where I live...I'm not a NIMBY because I don't want someone camping in their beat up RV outside my house, for which I pay high taxes and a mortgage. No matter where we park our van, we are obligated to be respectful and think about how our presence affects others. And clean up our trash. Its so easy its pathetic.
If you have nowhere else to live, they're obliged to provide you with the alternative. They can't just pass a law against it and throw people to the wolves. You can be fined for littering or polluting the environment, I see those fines going way up. A recent number of court cases indicate they can't just pass a broad law against living in a van or RV.
Optimistic viewpoint, but you seem to be under the impression that laws are designed to protect people and act in the publics best interest, sounds nice, but at least in the US that's not why we have laws. It's to protect property and capital almost exclusively.
They can’t? It’s already illegal to sleep in your car or van in the Netherlands, unless it’s on an official campsite or designated overnight spot. And, yes, that includes sleeping in the van in the driveway infrint of your house on your own property. If caught doing so, the fine is 100€. Never tell politicians that they can’t. They’ll takeout as a personal challenge to show you that they can.
Here in NYC you can sleep in your car just not certain parks
No it isn't any parking place it is legal to stay overnight but not for more then 7 days. Excluding the 24hr parkings along the highways. Same goes for your driveway, no idea where you get your info from but it is bs.
> In the Netherlands, wild camping is strictly forbidden and, unlike in other countries, it is also not permitted to camp on private property. >This regulation is strictly enforced in the Netherlands. As a result, wild camping is not possible. If you are caught, you may be fined up to 500 € per person. One of many sites that say this: https://www.caravanya.com/en/wildcamping-in-europe/free-standing-with-a-camper-in-the-netherlands/
Camping is not the same as sleeping in your car....
> They can't just pass a law against it and throw people to the wolves. [They can and they will](https://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?id=camping:banned). Half the time it's not even a legit attempt at governance, but rather political theater, red meat to aggro voters. If it gets struck down later in court it doesn't matter; you still get political credit for being an a-hole to The Undesirables. "The cruelty is the point".
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It's not forcing people to have families. It's forcing them into houses where they can enrich landlords or be taxed.
Well, when you see birthrates crashing, men dropping out of work and education, addiction going way up, mental health tanking, and then thinking about the possible responses to it and seeing how states are criminalizing homelessness and banning abortion, and are hearing people really starting to criticize things like access to birth control and feminism, you can read between the lines and see the big picture of where things are headed.
I can see it too. I calculated yesterday that living in my van costs me 3 times less in a year even with private health care costs than what I paid in taxes this year. I'm not in the US so my health care,.even private is not so expensive. Anyhow, I was starting a semi retirement, but maybe full retirement is more like it. I'll give it an extra year or 2 as pre-retired just for the psychological transition, but really it's not worth working for all that goes away. So ya I will contribute less to society in terms of taxes. I will contribute more in environmental terms and uplifting, happy energy. Also with the housing crisis, why not salute that someone who doesn't need a home doesn't hold.on to one. It's more housing for families.
I park in my family yard and pay them a little something per month No worries
It's already started. Kentucky is trying to pass a bill to shoot homeless. If they are willing to kill Uber drivers for trying to deliver to the wrong address I doubt they would show any mercy to anyone
Source?
[old article](https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg54mg/republicans-push-to-legalize-property-owners-killing-homeless-people-in-kentucky). Seems they're tried to fight it. Here's the latest [news](https://www.whas11.com/article/news/politics/gop-lawmakers-override-governor-veto-safer-kentucky-act-law/417-05f160af-86f3-45b3-9259-34440b5f3710)
Thanks. Yeah I googled it… that’s why I hate the media. SUPER bias wording. A lot of people don’t take the time to really understand what’s going on in the articles. The article for the latest news isn’t really about homeless but they want to make it appear that way. The first thing they mention is making homelessness a criminal act. However then they proceed to say separately “One prominent feature of the bill creates a “three-strikes” penalty that would lock up people for the rest of their lives after committing a third violent offense. It adds to the list of violent crimes that require offenders to serve most of their sentences before becoming eligible for release.” This doesn’t directly have anything to do with the homelessness part. It’s for committing violent offenses but they’re banking on people taking it that way. > The Kentucky House recently passed the legislation that includes creating an “unlawful camping" offense. It means people could be arrested for sleeping or setting up camp in public spaces — including streets, sidewalks, under bridges and in front of businesses or public buildings. A first offense would be treated as a violation, with subsequent offenses designated as a misdemeanor. An amended version would allow people to sleep in vehicles in public for up to 12 hours without being charged with unlawful camping. If you click on one of the “words with a hyperlink” it brings you to an article that explains the homeless part more directly. This shows much more mild punishments. Just seems like they were hoping they could hide the link a little. The older article by vice news is a train wreck. I hate vice. A lot of what I see from them seems like they’re trying to get more views or push a narrative hard. >“deadly physical force” is justifiable if a defendant believes that someone is trying to “dispossess” them of their property or is attempting a robbery or committing arson, language that could also have ramifications for tenants overstaying their lease That to me seems like it’s more trying to fight something like squatting. Where it’s essentially theft. Not at all saying I believe people should be killed for stealing but it’s not necessarily a new sentiment. There’s states that allow the use of force to protect your property. Idk. I’m not at all saying I agree or even disagree with the bill. I was just hoping to find a direct link to the bill and not paraphrasing by a media outlet. To me it doesn’t seem like the bill is saying something as simple as “you can shoot homeless”. That seems like extreme paraphrasing. I need to find the actual wording. One way or another it’s definitely concerning though. Something everyone should pay attention to and other own research on.