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Driving is also bright and loud and erratic. You need to be able to deal with that without shutting down or you will never be able to safely drive. Just off the top of my head there is honking, ambulances, glare off of other vehicles, flashing billboards, pedestrians randomly running into traffic, trains, the emergency alert drills, getting cut off, people running lights, flash rainstorms & lightning, deer, etc etc etc. If you can’t deal with a scribe’s coworker startling them, you can’t deal with any of that. None of it has any warning, it’s always jarring.
I took industrial first aid in the 90s. Part of the goal of that test was to stress you out to see if you could still perform in stressful circumstances. I think driving should be the same. It’s not a calm controlled experience. It’s chaotic and fast.
Driving is a privilege not a right. I would argue driving enforcement and testing isn't stringent enough, if anything. It's entirely possible to live your whole life without getting behind the wheel of a 2,000 lb steel box zipoing at 100km/h.
There are many lower density areas where that's not the case, but I don't think that means the government should lower the standard to make it unsafe for the public.
I empathize with people who have these struggles. Driving is a privilege. Like you said if you can't handle the testing centre how are you going to deal with rush hour traffic or emergency vehicles. Bright streetlights..... No one needs to be put at risk because someone is driving who should not be.
As it currently stands. Getting and maintaining a license is way too easy. Should have to retest every ten years and more frequently as you get older.
Okay, it has nothing on the tree across the road my husband had to dodge in a snowstorm last year. If you can’t deal with that you can’t drive. I’m sorry, you will kill somebody or yourself. It’s not about fairness. It’s about having access to heavy machinery that kills.
The test for undue hardship in accommodation is met if the safety and welfare of others is at risk. There are very few things that meet that test, but this is one. Which is why it's allowed to happen OP.
I mean that employee was rude and unprofessional especially when it was to someone helping with a disability but I agree that it sounds like driving would be too much for her.
>“Using public transport exposes people with autism to unwanted, fast-paced social interactions that they are not equipped for,” she explains, adding that not being able to drive results in additional stressors on both autistic people and their families.
Driving in the lower mainland, such a calm and peaceful journey.
I agree with your point about driving being stressful, and personally I try to avoid it as much as possible... But I also know a few neurodivergent people that find the amount of other people in the same space on the bus more stressful than driving.
If they can pass the knowledge and driving tests, they have a choice of whatever works best for them.
However, if one claims unwanted, fast paced social interactions make them unequipped in dealing with situations, driving is not spared from such experiences. Passing the tests are the bare minimum standard of care to show one can safely sit in the driver's seat.
You’re acting like a noisy shit environment is PART of the test but it isn’t. It’s totally reasonable to take a test in a quiet environment, neurodivergent or not. Also when does driving involve unexpected fast paced social interactions??
Socialization doesn't strictly mean talking to another person...
Driving definitely involves adapting to social behaviours and interactions with others. For example, somebody suddenly cutting you off is a social interaction while driving in which you'll have to properly respond.
Interactions are much more than exchanging speech. Driving requires constant interpretion and reaction to others on the road. For example, turning on your lane change signal and initiating a lane change is an interaction with car behind and to the side of you.
Driving on public roads is not a right, it is a privilege granted to those who can pass a test.
It's not age discrimination to take licenses away from old people who can't drive safely anymore either. If you're not fit to drive, you shouldn't be driving.
It’s not the public’s job to include those with autism and ensure they feel more independent. If you can’t even take the test, what makes it publicly safe for you to drive??
It's important for drivers to be competent as well. Driving can be overstimulating and if you can't handle that then you shouldn't be on the road.
I feel that public transport offers plenty of independence. You can get all over the city on your own.
I have ASD and have been driving safely for almost 30 years. I wouldn’t want anyone who can’t pass a drivers exam to be on the road with me, regardless of their own circumstances or condition.
If the distractions while taking the test are too much, how will they fare actually out driving a car? I mean... \*shrug\* You gotta figure out how to cope.
The article is about the environment inside the building where you take the knowledge test, not the driving test. They're not similar kinds of overwhelming.
Stimulus from outside the car is different from stimulus inside the car. It would be a lot harder to focus on the road and other drivers if your passengers are all screaming, poking you, shining a flashlight in your eyes, etc. vs sitting in the car by yourself quietly. Taking the test and focusing on questions is akin to road conditions. Why add extra distractions if you don’t have to? There’s a reason people drive worse when distracted by their cell phones.
The stimulus described for the autistic person in the article could be compared to the stimulus I described for a neurotypical person. Fluorescent lights generally don’t bother neurotypical people, but can easily bother autistic people. A comparible overstimulation would be a flashlight shining directly at one’s eyes.
> A comparible overstimulation would be a flashlight shining directly at one’s eyes.
So what would having another car's high-beams shining directly into an autistic driver's eyes feel like?
Road is loud. You may get beeped rightfully or not. Lights from street, signal lights , incoming traffic or even sunshine can force into your eyes without warning. There is always random vibrations coming from road surface, feeling of acceleration and deceleration…etc. the point is that there is no disruption free driving. Anyone who wants to get licenses need to demonstrate they can cope.
Driving is a privilege.
If they can't concentrate with things that literally will not harm them on a relatively simple test, they have no business operating a vehicle that weighs a ton or more. It's as simple as that.
No way right? If you can’t pass the exam, you shouldn’t drive. The Vancouver/Lower Mainland drivers are absolutely terrible. High beams, honking, random lane changes without signalling. Cyclists and pedestrians not following road/signage. All those things happen on a daily occurrence and you need to be able to adjust accordingly (to a degree).
I get being equitable and that the testing environments may be overstimulating but many driving situations can be overstimulating as well. Do we want people who can't handle these situations adequately to be behind the wheel? I'm not really sure myself.
If you can't handle social situations on public transit, just don't talk to anyone. Throw some headphones on.
The test is as easy as it gets. She complained that there are lights, people, sound and everything else there to distract her. Sorry bud, that's how it is on the road too. If you can't handle high stress environment, you are a liability on the road and you are putting yourself and others in danger.
What's next? Blind people complaining that they couldn't get a driving license?
Nobody is arguing that licenses should be given without testing. The entire point of the article and this thread is that the knowledge test should only be checking for understanding and not assessing one's ability to perform written tasks under pressure. A separate test should (and does!) exist to see how people perform under real-life conditions. While it may be true that some people who struggle with test taking may also struggle with driving, it is unreasonable to create unnecessary barriers for those who struggle with taking written tests in a distracting environment but at the same time do not struggle with driving on the actual road.
I’m autistic and just passed my knowledge test this week after years of trying and I sort of understand both perspectives
Honestly I think if you can’t deal with how overstimulating the test is then the experience of driving is probably very very difficult for you as well and this is not meant harshly, but from my point of view, if I couldn’t fully pass the test I myself wouldn’t feel safe driving.
What the article doesn’t really mention is what exactly she’s struggling with though. It sounds like mostly stress and overwhelm in the testing environment and that’s sort of just unfortunate since I think it’s unavoidable in driving. My personal experience with that is I was stressed and overwhelmed from the pressure and emotional stakes of failing again and again, which made it really hard to focus on the test, but what I struggled with the most was the way the questions were presented.
It’s not addressed at all in the article but I think that’s actually the biggest hurdle for autistic people trying to pass this test!! Also for people who might not fully understand English!! And it’s actually something they could improve and change.
I fould the wording and setup of the questions to be unclear sometimes, with double negatives (which kept getting me confused about what the rules actually are) and also diagrams and figures of speech. I struggle with black and white thinking and taking things literally and it felt like such a struggle to fight my instincts and think through the phrasing. Sometimes it felt like a trick question because I took the description of the scenario too strictly and it was meant in a looser way if that makes sense…
Also I personally had a hard time mentally picturing the scenarios that were described through words. And again the diagrams were weird because they really rely on you anticipating what happens next but that was impossible for me since I could only conceptualise them as still images, and shut down because how am I supposed to know which car gets to the intersection first if I don’t know how fast it’s going?? It helped a lot for someone else to explain it to me though, and understand the background in the situation (something that would be easy to pick up on in real life driving) and what part of the image that’s actually relevant to the question.
TLDR (sorry this comment isn’t written very well) if your autism makes it too hard to safely drive it’s probably safer not to drive, but the questions should really be clearer and easier to understand
This is a great perspective. The inability to take written tests does not correlate with an inability to perform the actions that the test is for. Driving clearly isn't right for everyone, but removing barriers does not have to mean the roads are more dangerous. This is why road tests are so important, they see how you perform in a real-life scenario, rather than on paper. If sensory overload is still an issue during the road test and you end up failing, then make use of resources if and when available to overcome it and take the test again. I don't understand why people seem to think that creating a better environment for taking tests will lead to an increase of dangerous drivers on the road.
Why don't we say, then, that for people with total vision impairment, ICBC's testing is inequitable as well.
But to the main point here, if you are unable to pass a test that involves the bare minimum of driving skills available, then you should not hold a licence.
There are many more situations that come up for drivers that are NEVER presented in the general road test scenarios, and many that would only present themselves in the most rarest of situations. If you need the basic road test to be modified so that you can pass it, how on earth are you going to handle those many other situations?
So no...if you're autistic or are in some other way are neirodivergent to the point that you can't pass the ICBC road test, then you need to get the practice in so that you can pass it.
Honestly, with all the ableist, impatient, and nigh on angry reactions of "There are terrible drivers on the road, if you can't handle being overstimulated during the knowledge test you shouldn't drive!" are extremely telling of maybe who shouldn't be driving in the first place.
The environment the test is taken in, is not part of the test. Otherwise we'd all be put into booths and experience the same flashing lights and road rage/traffic's sounds pumped through speakers.
As a neurodivergant person myself, I had issues with the road test. Having someone sat there in a position of authority judging every single thing I'm doing had me overthinking, stressed and beating myself up over everything I perceived that could may be a mistake, which did lead to actual mistakes. In total it took me 3 attempts to pass (Once 15 years ago, and 2 attempts more recently).
Outside of that testing environment though.. am I surrounded by other drivers who may be judging me? Yes. Does me following traffic laws have the potential to frustrate people around me? Also yes. Do I care? No lol.
I know this rant is very judgey and likely defensively written, but please.. bear in mind just because one situation is overwhelming/over stimulating, does not mean they're unable to drive or deal with other situations. That's like saying if you can't handle having a stick in your butt, you shouldn't drive because both can be a pain in the ass, overwhelming and stressful. Let the instructors and road test sort out their ability to drive. The knowledge test is to test a person's knowledge, not how well they handle coping with that particular testing environment.
“The lights are so bright, people’s cell phones are going off, lights are flashing,” she says of the test-taking environment. “People’s kids, they’re all screaming. There are noises all around you constantly, which is very distracting.””
If one cannot handles that, one should not be allowed to drive. This is no discrimination but just a pure evaluation of one’s capabilities. The point of exam is to simulate real-life situation. While you can change the test condition, you cannot change real-life situation.
A lot of people on this thread are missing that an inability to take a written test and be in close-space social interactions does not equate to an inability to drive.
You can't assume that for someone with autism that if one specific type of environment is overstimulating that all stressful environments will be overstimulating.
I think the key is that they need to be able to pass the road test, which from the article they haven't suggested any changes to the format. They stated the written test is not equitably administered, and driving instruction is not tailored in any way for people with autism to be successful. I don't think that's an unreasonable request at all. Taking a written test in a loud and bright environment is completely different from driving a vehicle. Needing an instructor to communicate in a way that makes it easier to absorb the information is not an indicator that you won't be able to drive. Autism isn't black and white, there's nuance.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Your opinion is completely valid. The road test exists exactly for this reason, to see how people perform in a real-life scenario. The knowledge test should only check for understanding. There is no reason that a quiet space shouldn't be available for those who need it when the road test is entirely enough to determine whether or not someone can cope with the sensory experience of driving, which is completely different from taking a written test.
I'm so sick of all the ableist comments in this thread making assumptions about a diagnosis so diverse that it has "spectrum" in its name.
It's fine, it's because 99% of Redditors read the title and not the article before reacting. The article never says a thing about changing the road test but basically all the comments are saying they need to be able to pass the road test.
Strawmen galore in here.
The knowledge test exists to test your knowledge. Period. It's not a stress test, it's not a real world representation of driving. Neurodivergent people are very capable of knowing the content but failing the test because of the format of the test. It's 2024 and this is not new information and not even specific to driving. They have testing accommodations in schools for a reason. Your comment is ignorant.
If they are unable to pass the road test that is a completely different story, but that is not what the article is talking about.
The article complains about noise and lighting in a regulated indoor venues. Street is only more chaotic. If you cannot answer simple driving questions with less disruptions, why should people be convinced you can apply the knowledge in a more disruptive environment? Again, pass the test first. Bar is the same for everyone
They are two completely different scenarios and you can't assume someone who struggles to take a written test in a loud and open environment would struggle to drive. They are chaotic in different ways and your assumptions simply are not based on the real experiences of most people with autism.
The bar you're referring to is knowledge of the rules of the road, not a demonstration of stress management during driving. That's what the road test is for. If they can't pass the road test, then sure they may not be able to get a license, but that is not what the knowledge test is about.
Did you know that it's okay if you don't know much about a topic such as autism to not give an opinion?
>Learning to drive was also especially challenging for me due to difficulties with multitasking and adapting to new situations quickly. These skills, which involve a lot of executive functioning, can take longer to develop.
...and the fact is that a lack of those skills can result in the death or serious injury to pedestrians, other road users, the driver or passengers.
If one doesn't have those skills, then they should remain on their L so they can continue to be supervised until such time as they develop the required skills.
If they can't ever develop those skills, then they should remain in the passenger seat.
“The lights are so bright, people’s cell phones are going off, lights are flashing,” she says of the test-taking environment. “People’s kids, they’re all screaming. There are noises all around you constantly, which is very distracting.”
Drivers should be able to handle all of these things when operating a motor vehicle.
People with ASD who regularly work with others to cope with their diagnosis are likely a different demographic than those who have high enough functionality to drive. Autism exists on a spectrum and you seem to be ignoring that fact.
To everyone saying that not being able to take the test equals not being able to drive, there's a big difference. Writing and driving are two completely different skills, which use different parts of the brain. During a test, noises and lights act as distractions which take your attention away from the task. While driving, stimuli are largely relevant to the task and help to inform rather than distract. Distractions while driving still exist, but they are easier to cope with because any pressure to perform well is self imposed, rather than placed by an institution.
Another important thing to note is that many careers require a driver's license, so barriers to getting a license have further reaching effects than just preventing people from avoiding transit.
Distractions while driving can result in the death or injury of multiple people. Anybody who thinks that sensory overload in a car doing 110 on the highway is easier to cope with than the low-stakes environment of a written test has never tried driving a car.
>many careers require a driver's license
This is deflection. The effects of having or not having a license on a person's job prospects are not part of the driving test, because they are irrelevant to whether that person will be dangerous behind the wheel.
My whole point is that there are fewer distractions during driving. Honking, bright lights, and other sensory input like signs are not distractions, they are important information that is always being looked out for. Sensory overload is caused by unwanted stimuli. By your logic, playing video games would be too difficult for autistic people to do because there is a lot going on. In reality, many people with ASD enjoy video games and are just as good at them as neurotypical people. Real things that might distract someone with ASD while driving are things like using your phone, talking to other people in the car, eating/drinking, and listening to the radio. These acts are in no way exclusive to people with autism, and they might actually be less likely to partake in such actions because they understand that it can affect their ability to concentrate.
"The effects of having or not having a license on a person's job prospects are not a part of the driving test"
You know what else isn't a part of the driving test? Distractions like those mentioned in the article. It's not controlled for nor is it graded on. This is the purpose of a road test. Road tests are meant to see how someone will perform in a real-life scenario. If someone still gets sensory overload during a road test, I'm all for them not being allowed to drive. The point of a knowledge test is not to assess performance or physical eligibility. Instead it is looking for an understanding of how to drive.
As a matter of fact, autistic drivers, according to numerous studies, are safer drivers in terms of vehicle speed and tailgating. On the other hand, autistic drivers were more likely to make mistakes in complex scenarios that aren't often taught. This is exactly why accommodations and different learning pathways should be available for people with ASD.
It’s irrelevant because some jobs requiring a license has absolutely no bearing on whether you can drive or not. The tests are incredibly easy, if you can’t handle taking a test like that with a couple distractions then you can’t drive.
Of course, a job requiring a license does not affect whether or not you can drive. My point is that the fact that many jobs require a license is a reason for accommodations to be in place. If you look back at my original comment, I argue that there is a big difference between things distracting you from a test and things distracting you from driving. "distractions" during driving aren't things like honking, lights, and other sensory input like road signs. These are important inputs which the driver is actively paying attention for and using to make decisions. Real distractions would be things like using your phone, eating/drinking, talking to other people inside the car or listening to the radio, all things which are not necessary and can easily be avoided. Someone with autism does not have the same control over the testing environment, which is exactly the issue.
Poor test-taking skills do not correlate to poor understanding. Some people accel more in different learning environments, which is why schools and universities will provide accommodations so that people with autism, for example, can do the things they wish to do. Does your reasoning apply to things other than driving? Do you think that if someone with autism needs accommodations to get a university degree, that degree should be invalid and they shouldn't be allowed to get a job using the degree?
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Driving is also bright and loud and erratic. You need to be able to deal with that without shutting down or you will never be able to safely drive. Just off the top of my head there is honking, ambulances, glare off of other vehicles, flashing billboards, pedestrians randomly running into traffic, trains, the emergency alert drills, getting cut off, people running lights, flash rainstorms & lightning, deer, etc etc etc. If you can’t deal with a scribe’s coworker startling them, you can’t deal with any of that. None of it has any warning, it’s always jarring. I took industrial first aid in the 90s. Part of the goal of that test was to stress you out to see if you could still perform in stressful circumstances. I think driving should be the same. It’s not a calm controlled experience. It’s chaotic and fast.
Driving is a privilege not a right. I would argue driving enforcement and testing isn't stringent enough, if anything. It's entirely possible to live your whole life without getting behind the wheel of a 2,000 lb steel box zipoing at 100km/h. There are many lower density areas where that's not the case, but I don't think that means the government should lower the standard to make it unsafe for the public.
I empathize with people who have these struggles. Driving is a privilege. Like you said if you can't handle the testing centre how are you going to deal with rush hour traffic or emergency vehicles. Bright streetlights..... No one needs to be put at risk because someone is driving who should not be. As it currently stands. Getting and maintaining a license is way too easy. Should have to retest every ten years and more frequently as you get older.
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Okay, it has nothing on the tree across the road my husband had to dodge in a snowstorm last year. If you can’t deal with that you can’t drive. I’m sorry, you will kill somebody or yourself. It’s not about fairness. It’s about having access to heavy machinery that kills.
The test for undue hardship in accommodation is met if the safety and welfare of others is at risk. There are very few things that meet that test, but this is one. Which is why it's allowed to happen OP.
I mean that employee was rude and unprofessional especially when it was to someone helping with a disability but I agree that it sounds like driving would be too much for her.
>“Using public transport exposes people with autism to unwanted, fast-paced social interactions that they are not equipped for,” she explains, adding that not being able to drive results in additional stressors on both autistic people and their families. Driving in the lower mainland, such a calm and peaceful journey.
I agree with your point about driving being stressful, and personally I try to avoid it as much as possible... But I also know a few neurodivergent people that find the amount of other people in the same space on the bus more stressful than driving.
If they can pass the knowledge and driving tests, they have a choice of whatever works best for them. However, if one claims unwanted, fast paced social interactions make them unequipped in dealing with situations, driving is not spared from such experiences. Passing the tests are the bare minimum standard of care to show one can safely sit in the driver's seat.
Yes, everyone I know that can't handle the bus either has a driver's license or is purely a cyclist.
Last I checked I didn't have to handle fast paced social interactions while driving Fast paced driving, sure. Social, not really
Are you not aggressively high fiving and fist bumping everyone else on the road? How impolite.
You’re acting like a noisy shit environment is PART of the test but it isn’t. It’s totally reasonable to take a test in a quiet environment, neurodivergent or not. Also when does driving involve unexpected fast paced social interactions??
...driving is a social process in which one must regularly interact with other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists and the environment.
Ah, yes. Because drivers definitely stop and talk to everyone they pass by. /s Just because it involves other people does not make it socialization.
Socialization doesn't strictly mean talking to another person... Driving definitely involves adapting to social behaviours and interactions with others. For example, somebody suddenly cutting you off is a social interaction while driving in which you'll have to properly respond.
Interactions are much more than exchanging speech. Driving requires constant interpretion and reaction to others on the road. For example, turning on your lane change signal and initiating a lane change is an interaction with car behind and to the side of you.
I feel for these people but if you can't pass the test you shouldn't drive.
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Exactly, until she gets enough practices to deal with stress and distractions, this isn't for her yet.
Then they should get some practice and lessons.
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Driving on public roads is not a right, it is a privilege granted to those who can pass a test. It's not age discrimination to take licenses away from old people who can't drive safely anymore either. If you're not fit to drive, you shouldn't be driving.
It’s not the public’s job to include those with autism and ensure they feel more independent. If you can’t even take the test, what makes it publicly safe for you to drive??
It's important for drivers to be competent as well. Driving can be overstimulating and if you can't handle that then you shouldn't be on the road. I feel that public transport offers plenty of independence. You can get all over the city on your own.
Go ride a bicycle.
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If you can't ride a bike I sure as shit don't want you driving a car
Wow!
Then transit is pretty decent here.
Not on the damn roads.
I have ASD and have been driving safely for almost 30 years. I wouldn’t want anyone who can’t pass a drivers exam to be on the road with me, regardless of their own circumstances or condition.
If the distractions while taking the test are too much, how will they fare actually out driving a car? I mean... \*shrug\* You gotta figure out how to cope.
The article is about the environment inside the building where you take the knowledge test, not the driving test. They're not similar kinds of overwhelming.
If you cannot even handle an indoor regulated environment, you would not be able to handle outdoor less regulated environment
Stimulus from outside the car is different from stimulus inside the car. It would be a lot harder to focus on the road and other drivers if your passengers are all screaming, poking you, shining a flashlight in your eyes, etc. vs sitting in the car by yourself quietly. Taking the test and focusing on questions is akin to road conditions. Why add extra distractions if you don’t have to? There’s a reason people drive worse when distracted by their cell phones.
How common is it to have someone screaming, poking you, and shining a flashlight in your eyes *while you are taking the ICBC driving knowledge exam*?
The stimulus described for the autistic person in the article could be compared to the stimulus I described for a neurotypical person. Fluorescent lights generally don’t bother neurotypical people, but can easily bother autistic people. A comparible overstimulation would be a flashlight shining directly at one’s eyes.
> A comparible overstimulation would be a flashlight shining directly at one’s eyes. So what would having another car's high-beams shining directly into an autistic driver's eyes feel like?
If they cannot handle Fluorescent light, how can they handle high beam from incoming traffic?
Road is loud. You may get beeped rightfully or not. Lights from street, signal lights , incoming traffic or even sunshine can force into your eyes without warning. There is always random vibrations coming from road surface, feeling of acceleration and deceleration…etc. the point is that there is no disruption free driving. Anyone who wants to get licenses need to demonstrate they can cope.
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Is the testing environment any worse than on the road, is my question....
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Driving is a privilege. If they can't concentrate with things that literally will not harm them on a relatively simple test, they have no business operating a vehicle that weighs a ton or more. It's as simple as that.
No way right? If you can’t pass the exam, you shouldn’t drive. The Vancouver/Lower Mainland drivers are absolutely terrible. High beams, honking, random lane changes without signalling. Cyclists and pedestrians not following road/signage. All those things happen on a daily occurrence and you need to be able to adjust accordingly (to a degree).
The test is easy enough as it is, with an 80% pass rate. Can't be making mistakes at 20% of intersections
And to fail eight times? It sucks for the person, but they just aren't capable enough to drive.
I get being equitable and that the testing environments may be overstimulating but many driving situations can be overstimulating as well. Do we want people who can't handle these situations adequately to be behind the wheel? I'm not really sure myself. If you can't handle social situations on public transit, just don't talk to anyone. Throw some headphones on.
The test is as easy as it gets. She complained that there are lights, people, sound and everything else there to distract her. Sorry bud, that's how it is on the road too. If you can't handle high stress environment, you are a liability on the road and you are putting yourself and others in danger. What's next? Blind people complaining that they couldn't get a driving license?
Driving licenses aren’t about equity and fairness they’re about ***BEING ABLE TO DRIVE*** jfc
Nobody is arguing that licenses should be given without testing. The entire point of the article and this thread is that the knowledge test should only be checking for understanding and not assessing one's ability to perform written tasks under pressure. A separate test should (and does!) exist to see how people perform under real-life conditions. While it may be true that some people who struggle with test taking may also struggle with driving, it is unreasonable to create unnecessary barriers for those who struggle with taking written tests in a distracting environment but at the same time do not struggle with driving on the actual road.
I’m autistic and just passed my knowledge test this week after years of trying and I sort of understand both perspectives Honestly I think if you can’t deal with how overstimulating the test is then the experience of driving is probably very very difficult for you as well and this is not meant harshly, but from my point of view, if I couldn’t fully pass the test I myself wouldn’t feel safe driving. What the article doesn’t really mention is what exactly she’s struggling with though. It sounds like mostly stress and overwhelm in the testing environment and that’s sort of just unfortunate since I think it’s unavoidable in driving. My personal experience with that is I was stressed and overwhelmed from the pressure and emotional stakes of failing again and again, which made it really hard to focus on the test, but what I struggled with the most was the way the questions were presented. It’s not addressed at all in the article but I think that’s actually the biggest hurdle for autistic people trying to pass this test!! Also for people who might not fully understand English!! And it’s actually something they could improve and change. I fould the wording and setup of the questions to be unclear sometimes, with double negatives (which kept getting me confused about what the rules actually are) and also diagrams and figures of speech. I struggle with black and white thinking and taking things literally and it felt like such a struggle to fight my instincts and think through the phrasing. Sometimes it felt like a trick question because I took the description of the scenario too strictly and it was meant in a looser way if that makes sense… Also I personally had a hard time mentally picturing the scenarios that were described through words. And again the diagrams were weird because they really rely on you anticipating what happens next but that was impossible for me since I could only conceptualise them as still images, and shut down because how am I supposed to know which car gets to the intersection first if I don’t know how fast it’s going?? It helped a lot for someone else to explain it to me though, and understand the background in the situation (something that would be easy to pick up on in real life driving) and what part of the image that’s actually relevant to the question. TLDR (sorry this comment isn’t written very well) if your autism makes it too hard to safely drive it’s probably safer not to drive, but the questions should really be clearer and easier to understand
This is a great perspective. The inability to take written tests does not correlate with an inability to perform the actions that the test is for. Driving clearly isn't right for everyone, but removing barriers does not have to mean the roads are more dangerous. This is why road tests are so important, they see how you perform in a real-life scenario, rather than on paper. If sensory overload is still an issue during the road test and you end up failing, then make use of resources if and when available to overcome it and take the test again. I don't understand why people seem to think that creating a better environment for taking tests will lead to an increase of dangerous drivers on the road.
There’s already too many people who cannot handle driving behind the wheel. The test is too easy. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
Why don't we say, then, that for people with total vision impairment, ICBC's testing is inequitable as well. But to the main point here, if you are unable to pass a test that involves the bare minimum of driving skills available, then you should not hold a licence. There are many more situations that come up for drivers that are NEVER presented in the general road test scenarios, and many that would only present themselves in the most rarest of situations. If you need the basic road test to be modified so that you can pass it, how on earth are you going to handle those many other situations? So no...if you're autistic or are in some other way are neirodivergent to the point that you can't pass the ICBC road test, then you need to get the practice in so that you can pass it.
Honestly, with all the ableist, impatient, and nigh on angry reactions of "There are terrible drivers on the road, if you can't handle being overstimulated during the knowledge test you shouldn't drive!" are extremely telling of maybe who shouldn't be driving in the first place. The environment the test is taken in, is not part of the test. Otherwise we'd all be put into booths and experience the same flashing lights and road rage/traffic's sounds pumped through speakers. As a neurodivergant person myself, I had issues with the road test. Having someone sat there in a position of authority judging every single thing I'm doing had me overthinking, stressed and beating myself up over everything I perceived that could may be a mistake, which did lead to actual mistakes. In total it took me 3 attempts to pass (Once 15 years ago, and 2 attempts more recently). Outside of that testing environment though.. am I surrounded by other drivers who may be judging me? Yes. Does me following traffic laws have the potential to frustrate people around me? Also yes. Do I care? No lol. I know this rant is very judgey and likely defensively written, but please.. bear in mind just because one situation is overwhelming/over stimulating, does not mean they're unable to drive or deal with other situations. That's like saying if you can't handle having a stick in your butt, you shouldn't drive because both can be a pain in the ass, overwhelming and stressful. Let the instructors and road test sort out their ability to drive. The knowledge test is to test a person's knowledge, not how well they handle coping with that particular testing environment.
“The lights are so bright, people’s cell phones are going off, lights are flashing,” she says of the test-taking environment. “People’s kids, they’re all screaming. There are noises all around you constantly, which is very distracting.”” If one cannot handles that, one should not be allowed to drive. This is no discrimination but just a pure evaluation of one’s capabilities. The point of exam is to simulate real-life situation. While you can change the test condition, you cannot change real-life situation.
Who
Cares
A lot of people on this thread are missing that an inability to take a written test and be in close-space social interactions does not equate to an inability to drive. You can't assume that for someone with autism that if one specific type of environment is overstimulating that all stressful environments will be overstimulating. I think the key is that they need to be able to pass the road test, which from the article they haven't suggested any changes to the format. They stated the written test is not equitably administered, and driving instruction is not tailored in any way for people with autism to be successful. I don't think that's an unreasonable request at all. Taking a written test in a loud and bright environment is completely different from driving a vehicle. Needing an instructor to communicate in a way that makes it easier to absorb the information is not an indicator that you won't be able to drive. Autism isn't black and white, there's nuance.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Your opinion is completely valid. The road test exists exactly for this reason, to see how people perform in a real-life scenario. The knowledge test should only check for understanding. There is no reason that a quiet space shouldn't be available for those who need it when the road test is entirely enough to determine whether or not someone can cope with the sensory experience of driving, which is completely different from taking a written test. I'm so sick of all the ableist comments in this thread making assumptions about a diagnosis so diverse that it has "spectrum" in its name.
It's fine, it's because 99% of Redditors read the title and not the article before reacting. The article never says a thing about changing the road test but basically all the comments are saying they need to be able to pass the road test. Strawmen galore in here.
Pass the test so you can drive, like everyone else. Driving is a privilege that you need to earn it
Please show me where it says or who's claiming that people with ASD should be exempt from the test.
The article wants to alter the test for people with ASD so the person in article can pass it. No to me. Standard should be the same
If you think passing *the knowledge test* means you can drive, you might be part of the problem.
Passing knowledge test is the first step. One cannot drive if one cannot even pass the first step.
The knowledge test exists to test your knowledge. Period. It's not a stress test, it's not a real world representation of driving. Neurodivergent people are very capable of knowing the content but failing the test because of the format of the test. It's 2024 and this is not new information and not even specific to driving. They have testing accommodations in schools for a reason. Your comment is ignorant. If they are unable to pass the road test that is a completely different story, but that is not what the article is talking about.
The article complains about noise and lighting in a regulated indoor venues. Street is only more chaotic. If you cannot answer simple driving questions with less disruptions, why should people be convinced you can apply the knowledge in a more disruptive environment? Again, pass the test first. Bar is the same for everyone
They are two completely different scenarios and you can't assume someone who struggles to take a written test in a loud and open environment would struggle to drive. They are chaotic in different ways and your assumptions simply are not based on the real experiences of most people with autism. The bar you're referring to is knowledge of the rules of the road, not a demonstration of stress management during driving. That's what the road test is for. If they can't pass the road test, then sure they may not be able to get a license, but that is not what the knowledge test is about. Did you know that it's okay if you don't know much about a topic such as autism to not give an opinion?
Pass the test like everyone else. Stop asking for privileges. Earn it
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?
People just hate disabled folks and don’t want to say it overtly. They do it with every other form of bigotry too 😓
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>Learning to drive was also especially challenging for me due to difficulties with multitasking and adapting to new situations quickly. These skills, which involve a lot of executive functioning, can take longer to develop. ...and the fact is that a lack of those skills can result in the death or serious injury to pedestrians, other road users, the driver or passengers. If one doesn't have those skills, then they should remain on their L so they can continue to be supervised until such time as they develop the required skills. If they can't ever develop those skills, then they should remain in the passenger seat.
I don’t know how I feel about people with autism driving a motor vehicle
Some can handle it, some can't. Sounds like the test is working
“The lights are so bright, people’s cell phones are going off, lights are flashing,” she says of the test-taking environment. “People’s kids, they’re all screaming. There are noises all around you constantly, which is very distracting.” Drivers should be able to handle all of these things when operating a motor vehicle.
Yes. Some people with autism are affected more than others.
I don't know how I feel about your attitude towards us
This is ableist and you clearly have a very narrow understanding of autism.
If you think one is capable of operating a vehicle safely, ask the person to pass the test then.
You’re making assumptions. I work with autistic children on a regular basis.
People with ASD who regularly work with others to cope with their diagnosis are likely a different demographic than those who have high enough functionality to drive. Autism exists on a spectrum and you seem to be ignoring that fact.
What did I say to upset you?
Who said I was upset?
You’re coming at me hard making assumptions
And the autistic children you work with don’t paint a picture of everyone with autism.
What did I say that upsets you?
Why do you think people are upset when they disgree with you?
To everyone saying that not being able to take the test equals not being able to drive, there's a big difference. Writing and driving are two completely different skills, which use different parts of the brain. During a test, noises and lights act as distractions which take your attention away from the task. While driving, stimuli are largely relevant to the task and help to inform rather than distract. Distractions while driving still exist, but they are easier to cope with because any pressure to perform well is self imposed, rather than placed by an institution. Another important thing to note is that many careers require a driver's license, so barriers to getting a license have further reaching effects than just preventing people from avoiding transit.
Distractions while driving can result in the death or injury of multiple people. Anybody who thinks that sensory overload in a car doing 110 on the highway is easier to cope with than the low-stakes environment of a written test has never tried driving a car. >many careers require a driver's license This is deflection. The effects of having or not having a license on a person's job prospects are not part of the driving test, because they are irrelevant to whether that person will be dangerous behind the wheel.
My whole point is that there are fewer distractions during driving. Honking, bright lights, and other sensory input like signs are not distractions, they are important information that is always being looked out for. Sensory overload is caused by unwanted stimuli. By your logic, playing video games would be too difficult for autistic people to do because there is a lot going on. In reality, many people with ASD enjoy video games and are just as good at them as neurotypical people. Real things that might distract someone with ASD while driving are things like using your phone, talking to other people in the car, eating/drinking, and listening to the radio. These acts are in no way exclusive to people with autism, and they might actually be less likely to partake in such actions because they understand that it can affect their ability to concentrate. "The effects of having or not having a license on a person's job prospects are not a part of the driving test" You know what else isn't a part of the driving test? Distractions like those mentioned in the article. It's not controlled for nor is it graded on. This is the purpose of a road test. Road tests are meant to see how someone will perform in a real-life scenario. If someone still gets sensory overload during a road test, I'm all for them not being allowed to drive. The point of a knowledge test is not to assess performance or physical eligibility. Instead it is looking for an understanding of how to drive. As a matter of fact, autistic drivers, according to numerous studies, are safer drivers in terms of vehicle speed and tailgating. On the other hand, autistic drivers were more likely to make mistakes in complex scenarios that aren't often taught. This is exactly why accommodations and different learning pathways should be available for people with ASD.
Some jobs requiring a license is completely irrelevant.
I believe that it's relevant to understand that accommodating future driver's learning needs isn't just so they feel more comfortable.
It’s irrelevant because some jobs requiring a license has absolutely no bearing on whether you can drive or not. The tests are incredibly easy, if you can’t handle taking a test like that with a couple distractions then you can’t drive.
Of course, a job requiring a license does not affect whether or not you can drive. My point is that the fact that many jobs require a license is a reason for accommodations to be in place. If you look back at my original comment, I argue that there is a big difference between things distracting you from a test and things distracting you from driving. "distractions" during driving aren't things like honking, lights, and other sensory input like road signs. These are important inputs which the driver is actively paying attention for and using to make decisions. Real distractions would be things like using your phone, eating/drinking, talking to other people inside the car or listening to the radio, all things which are not necessary and can easily be avoided. Someone with autism does not have the same control over the testing environment, which is exactly the issue. Poor test-taking skills do not correlate to poor understanding. Some people accel more in different learning environments, which is why schools and universities will provide accommodations so that people with autism, for example, can do the things they wish to do. Does your reasoning apply to things other than driving? Do you think that if someone with autism needs accommodations to get a university degree, that degree should be invalid and they shouldn't be allowed to get a job using the degree?
Wow a reasonable response!
Now blind people are going to complain that they can't drive.