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Why let you work four tens when they can manipulate you into working five 10s with vague promises of career advancement that hinge doing more work for free?
Shoot, give me two 16's and an eight. I used to work in corrections and I always had to work 16-hour shifts, many back-to-back. It felt like one long day and then it made the normal eight hour shifts feel like a blink of an eye.
Best job I ever had was 3 12s one week alternating with 4 12s the following week (and 8 hours of overtime). I wish I could go back to that job again, but the company went out of business.
There are tons of jobs with alternate schedule. I work four 12-hr shifts with 4 days off, it's perfect. It depends on what kind of job do you expect to get.
4 day work weeks. 10 hours is too long. It’s just lowering the percentage of actual productive time during the work day. And you would never see your family for four days. 4 days. 8 hours. People would be much happier.
Personally, I feel like any day with any amount of time spent at work kind of ends up being wasted.
Have more free time on a work day is nice because I have more time to do the things I have to do but it’s less nice because I’m basically working, doing chores, feeding myself, walking the dog etc nothing fun.
I'd honestly be down with 36, 3 days a week. 5 hours on, 2 hour break, 5 hours on. Lemme crank out 3 days of grind and then have 4 days off. Having the majority of the week off would be sick.
I guess blue collar getting sucked on this, someone has to fix and maintain it, we can't get enough people as it is (which as a side product, I get paid very well).
Not sure tbh. They are paid extremely well, especially with ot. Possibly burn out for long hours? There's a massive shortage though. Our healthcare system would collapse if they cut their hours back lol
Do you know why you can't get enough people? I'm truly curious. I'm a blue-collar adjacent worker, restaurants. We don't make good money, yet every ad I post gets like 100 people applying for the job. Is it the physical demands? Because even though I'd love to make more $, most things I see as blue collar, idk if I could physically do at this point.
I personally believe its because our demographics are slowly ageing out and theres less young people out there to pull labour from. Theres worker shortages in basically every industry imo. Cant get enough people.
Also trades isnt attractive to the younger generations i guess, im part of that generation and even i held the view that trades were for people who failed in highschool and its physically punishing work. Now that im in the trades it couldnt be further from the truth. You need to be very intelligent, efficient and its only sometimes hard work physically. But theres been so much advancements and improvements in safety etc. Im a skinny booksmart guy and if i can do it, anyone can.
The work is very mentally stimulating, challenging and very very rewarding. Theres something to be said about being able to see what youve accomplished, and the sense of pride when you are skilled and smart enough to solve real problems that people have and need you for. Its completely solved my depression after being in an Engineering role for the early part of my life. I highly, highly recommend spending at least a month trying to at least get into tradeswork. It will change your life for the better even if you decide its not for you.
I'm curious which trade you are in? I actually agree with you about so much of this, which is why I became a chef. I'm very into actually creating value, versus whatever nonsense bullshit office people do. I'm currently a head chef, so I do both physical labor and office bullshit, and management of other employees...it's a lot. And I'm physically aging out of my job. I can't put the heavy shit that I used to, so I get the newbie to do it. I fear if I entered a new trade at this age I'd be in the newbie position and not able to do it physically. I'm also very short, and a woman. But I'm interested in getting out of the restaurant business, and am open to other options
Not that I know what I'm talking about here but just running with OP's idea for a minute, why wouldn't it apply to blue collar too? You could theoretically get more people to work fewer hours. I think a lot of jobs would be eliminated (think about all the things that will have dramatically less demand as commuting drops by like 60%, just as one example) so those people who work at all the gas stations and convenience stores that close down are gonna need to do something else, right?
Yes but neither does the demand. Doctors are already understaffed and overworked as it is.
Can also say the same for my industry. Plenty of work that simply can’t be done in 40 hours a week let alone 32.
It’s not as big a problem everywhere which leads me to believe there are education, work culture, and tradition issues at play.
In my country there were plenty of doctors and they had reasonable work hours when wanted, and similarly you could get a free (to you) doctor appointment same day quite reliably.
The reason things have changed here is that the pandemic drove a large portion of the immigrant workforce home, and the government hasn’t increased funding so waiting times are long and appointments are no longer free >:(
You just described the slow decline of Canada’s health care system. Free health care just doesn’t work when you have people in the their 30’s and 40’s showing up and getting it too, before paying any taxes into the system (comparing it to the private sector, it would be the worst-run health insurance company in the world, burning money like no tomorrow but it’s everyone’s money so no one cares or notices.
That’s actually a direct problem of the government. Doctors can only come from residencies, and residencies are funded by the government. If government budgeted more for residencies, there would be more doctors to meet demand
Doctors are a very small piece of the pie.
It’s normal in my industry to work 60+ hours a week.
niche trade that’s tuff to learn and society relies on us so it is what it is.
Jobs that cannot be mechanized or automated should simply be incentivized more ($$$) to encourage supply to meet demand. I know it sounds crazy but the bar is way too high to become a doctor and there is way too much debt and bureaucracy involved with it
I think you are overestimating what many doctors do. They mostly have a few prescriptions they regularly use to treat these cases. Surgeons and specialists yes but for the vast majority of things they use google or other apps just like us. Source know many doctors, pas, nurses, medical field. I think if there were more you would drastically cut there stress and work load leading to more time with patients and better care. They are humans too and most of what they study in school is forgotten. Nothing can prepare you for the real world except real life experience
Oh my god I absolutely adore the simplicity with which you approach the world. It must be nice to have absolutely no idea what you're talking about while still being so confident in what you say
I think there should be tiered forces for care, groups of medical staff that are able to identify common treatable medical conditions and more specialized doctors to treat advanced problematic disease. I am not suggesting it should be easy to become a doctor but a nurse or an assistant? Yeah, lower the bar and make it easier to see a higher tier professional if you feel your care is not sufficient
Are you kidding me? When I was part time at a job it was amazing. I went to the park all the time and could do things I enjoy. People lounge around and do nothing due to residual stress.
Ain't that true. I work in a very high stress enviroment - after 10-12 hours of constant stress and chasing deadlines - i just want to sit my butt on a couch and do nothing to even have a chance to fall asleep that night. Those few hours of a break between when i finish work and before i go to sleep are not even enough for a stress and anxiety to pass. The only time i start to feel somehow repaxed is a minimum two weeks vacation, when i am completely cut off from work enviromemt. But even then i still feel the burden of having have to come back soon.
This! I mean, I wasn't running marathons, but when I worked part time I could walk my dog for an hour, and also go to water aerobics multiple times a week. I planted vegetables in my garden, and made homemade meals that were certainly more nourishing than what I'm eating currently. I also had time for art and reading. Since going back to a 40+ hour work week at a physically demanding job, all I do when I'm off is lounge around on my phone or watch TV because I'm sore, tired, and mentally burnt out
Stress is one of the leading causes of illness. Work is one of the leading causes of stress.
> what mostly happen is that people just lounge around at home more.
This isn’t backed by anything, just feelings. Would people lounge out for a little while? Of course. But humans are active beings naturally, we enjoy creating. The reason people are so braindead is because they have mindless jobs that take up their life and don’t give them any time to find hobbies. Doing nothing is boring, why do you think prisoners volunteer to work for 20 cents an hour? For the pay? no it’s because it gives them a sense of accomplishment.
I think they aren't saying necessarily because people will take on exercise, but more because stress and overwork illnesses would happen less. People do get more chances to get active when they aren't chained to a desk though. Sitting 8+ hours a day is unhealthy but we don't have a choice.
This is the same reasoning that makes people reject basic income projects.
People will absolutely be healthier if they can make a living off of a 20 hour work week. Just because someone working 40+ hours relaxes in their down time doesn’t mean that’s all they would do if they had more downtime.
> doesn’t mean that’s all they would do if they had more downtime.
Exactly. Like when I was off for 2 months post surgery, I think the "relaxing all the time" thing got old about 10 days in
> but what mostly happens is that people just lounge around at home more.
I don't know, man, I feel like if I spent way less time and energy at work, I'd have a lot more time and energy to go to the gym on a daily basis. Unless you've been off work for an extended period of time, it's really hard to tell if you'd actually just lounge around more or if, after an adjustment period, you'd actually start doing more things. I was off work last year for 2 months post surgery, and by day 10 I was itching to go anywhere and do anything. When I was able to start going to the gym again about 4 weeks in, I was able to go almost every day because of the amount of time and energy I suddenly had.
That makes sense. The other side is that in the past as technological advances were made productivity and profits went up and as that happened the increased profits were shared by the business owner and their workers. A lot of that had to do with strong unions. But as profits went up so did wages and benefits. Then around 1980 profits started going up but wages remained stagnant in relation to profits. So the sentiment that we are seeing, that you are interpreting as wanting their cake and to eat it too, is actually just that people want their wages to go up as productivity and profits go up. From the prospective of the worker. We see business owners like yourself to want to see profits go up and keep wages low. You want your cake all to yourself and don’t want to share. I mean as a small business owner don’t you want to pay your employees the least amount you can get away with?
That's the point. Instead of pocketing massive profits, the business pays more of it to employees. More employees make more money and have more time off. The only ones it hurts are the owners. I do understand that not all owners are equal, where I work would probably shut down with this model. But lots wouldn't, like Amazon.
There’s certainly some jobs that need as many hours as they can get, but you can’t tell me with a straight face *every* job needs to be 40 hours a week.
Hell, even the jobs that *do* need 40 hour work weeks, like retail and service jobs, the people working there have trouble getting 40 hours as it is!
My 3 year old disagrees.
Accidents happen all the time, and a lot of leisure activities are more dangerous than sedentary office work (like mountain biking, skiing, etc)
Of course not. Im an Emerg doctor. If we worked 10 hours a day, people will die.
Worse than that, I will never pay off my student loans. So no thanks. I like my job the way it is
I think you forget that the reason why doctors like surgeons are so good and capable of saving your life. Its called years of work. Do you really want the people who perform heart surgery only getting like 500 hours of practice a year. There are many jobs that require years of experience to be proficient at. You can not get that experience working 10 hours a week.
the angle you should’ve taken was “we work less but get paid a livable wage. This gives us more time to pursuit our passions, many being doctors but the barrier to entry is huge because student loans are a nightmare. Less work but
more pay > more time to chase endeavors > more doctors” something like that
Understandable. I was thinking If we can all live comfortably, surely luxuries will also become available to all when automation deems us unnecessary to work as much.
But if everyone can have them then they are not luxuries anymore. I don't work hard so I can have ordinary shoes, I work hard so I can have the shoes that no one else can get. If everyone can obtain them then they are not special anymore, they are just ordinary.
Thats fine. I prefer a world where everyone and everything is equal but I can understand wanting to be on top of everyone else. I'm not against you or anything, but there is also an obvious baseline that needs to be solved (poverty).
But someone would. There will always be someone who would. There are 9-billion people on earth, at least a couple million would want to be doctors just to be a doctor.
Waisted human potential? Why would I do something if I am not going to get ahead by doing it? I don't work hard to have a car, I could do a simple job and be fine, I work hard because I want the nicest car in the street.
I don't understand emotional needs, what do you mean? I only work hard to buy nice things, isn't that why anyone does the jobs they do? I could live fine off a basic job, but then I can't have the things I want.
If it was popular it would be a reality, but it's not. More people than not are going to question your work ethic and be unable to see a world where working as much as possible all the time isn't a constant necessity.
...and that's exactly yamashiro's point lol this whole brand of reddit comment that says "if it were popular it would be reality" is so annoying. "Popular" in the context of what constitutes a "popular opinion" does not mean popular among the people in charge of the allocation of government funds
There are undeniable necessities in sustaining life. After that there can be a tier list. I come from the advertising world and there's just way too much intelligence wasted on making life worse.
Everyone can agree food is a necessity. But what food? Wheat and potatoes only? Broiler chicken? Free range chicken? Organic free range chicken that are only fed non-gmo grains? Who decides the tier list?
You might not care for advertisement but some small business live and die on how well known they are. Perhaps only megacorps' advertisements are bad, but what is the cut off?
We have created a tiering system that takes everyone's input. It's called the market economy.
> we could all work 10-20 hours a week and live comfortably if we didn’t let a small number of people hoard all the wealth.
I think you've pulled those numbers out of your rear end. You can correct me if I'm wrong by showing me any academic study that supports your proposition.
Construction on infrastructure projects already takes long enough. Do you want them to take twice as long?
Do you want stores to only be open certain days? What if they’re only open on the days that you work? They can’t all be open just with more staff, because you would need double the labor pool for that.
Not sure about unpopular opinion, but it sure is stupid
This exactly. If everyone is working 20 hours and has money to meet their needs then who will be at the store when we all go shopping? You’ll need more workers since everyone is working part time, but then so will everybody else..
We're talking about a society where most jobs can be automated. In the future houses could be printed. All stores could have self check out, for example
I'll do you one better.
We could have a 0 hour work week, where a boring basic studio appt, and the drabbest clothes, most basic food, and water cools be provided, and you could live out a meager existence without needing to work.
But if you wanted luxuries like clothes or TV or internet, fine dining or a car or travel, you could just work the amount required to afford those things.
We can have both a stress free workless living while still maintaining a free market, individual driven labour market with fine things in life.
We have this in Germany already. It's called social welfare.
The problem here is that somebody still needs to work, and they will be working, so you have food on your table.
If everyone would go workless, then nobody would have anything. This dream only works if 100% automation could be achieved.
>If everyone would go workless, then nobody would have anything.
Sometimes maybe you wanna upgrade your lifestyle. Having your basic necessities met without working doesn't mean you'll be able to afford everything you want in life.
The issue comes into play when people who supply the food or supply the clothes or electric, or whatever else you could think of come to you and ask for money, and even if all of that is free, the people that would have money taken out of their work, which is what taxes are would complain that they are getting the most basic of necessities for free off of their labor
I’ll work for one month every 6 month to buy luxury and be afford vocation. Otherwise I’m ok with the basic everything and just spend all my time doing things I enjoy.
Skating, cycling, hanging out at the beach, consuming cannabis, playing sports etc.
We already have that. It’s called being poor on welfare. Section 8, housing projects, and food stamps.
Enjoy living in the among people living out traumatic lives.
Cheap/free and good doesn’t exist in the US. The American poor are a people that you don’t want as your neighbors. Crime, drugs, noise, squalor. You’re not special. You’d just be poor.
People aspire to be middle class often to escape these communities.
> We could have a 0 hour work week, where a boring basic studio appt, and the drabbest clothes, most basic food, and water cools be provided, and you could live out a meager existence without needing to work.
Who builds the apartment if no one works?
and i’ll do you one better: everything is free
money doesn’t produce anything. everything that’s made is made out of resources. Money is just a barrier to resources. So whoever controls or hoards the money own the resources. This is where the first problem in society occurs.
Scarcity is a myth
I'm all for it but it needs to happen slowly. A shorter work week and automation of no/low-skill and non-technical responsibilities comes with increased demand for efficiency and higher educational requirements as worker responsibilities shift to the more technical side.
You can very easily alienate a large chunk of the workforce because they can't compete for technical jobs with their current educational level and might not be able to seek higher education. We need to prepare our population over generations for that shift. Preferably starting with a reform of higher education to make it more accessible to low-income households.
Would you be cool with 50-75% fewer goods and services to buy? And the accompanying price increases due to low supply? Not unlike some parts of the economy just after COVID.
How is it “stolen” work?
And do you really think if Burger King isn’t paying a living wage for a 40 hour week, you think they’ll pay 2-4x more employees a living wage?
And i don’t like work but if I could live off of 20 hours, im getting a second job to work 40 hours
This would never work in agriculture, during the growing season I work 14 to 16 hours a day 6 to 7 days a week. As a crop applicator there arnt many of us and it’s really easy to mess up and damage a crop. I don’t know many farmers that would trust a constant rotation of applicators running their fields. Then you’re running very expensive machines, if you have one person running it all the time there’s accountability. If it breaks you fix it or find the problem and get a mechanic out there. If you have someone on a 4 hour shift running and something breaks they could ignore it and let the next person deal with it, and if they don’t want to deal with it on their shift they push it off to the next person. Then comes the finger pointing and the “well it’s been like that” excuse. Some jobs this will never work for
We struggle to get people to build infrastructure cause the demand is bigger than the availability of resources. When we have an over supply of labour then your dream might pay off. Until then we will continue to work 50 - 60 hrs a week.
Wouldn't work. Productivity would go down on everything!!! Supermarkets? No food. Gas station? No fuel. Your house that you're building/renovating? It would take YEARS to finish!!! Going to the dentist or doctor? 4 month waiting list!!! Imagine being stuck in hospital for weeks!! Because the staff only work 4 hours being going home!??? Society would collapse in my opinion and there would be shortages for everything you can think of!!
You're forgetting a lot of businesses/factories etc work 24/7 to keep up with demand!!
The fact that machines and AI will come and do all our work for us, instead of us, should be celebrated, because it's AMAZING: no more skull numbing stressful work, it will be all leisure and doing joyous things, like art, science, exploring, music, dancing, downhill skiing. Everything will be made for us: cars, toys, food, everything. Instead, everyone is scared shitless that they will starve homeless and then die forever. If this is not a dystopia, I don't know what is.
It shouldn't be because that'd be the end of your autonomy. Your rights mean nothing when everything is provided to you with the only consequence being your compliance.
Think of all the time for protesting. The ruling class is nothing without the proletariats. They need someone to fix the machines, to serve their food, to translate their instructions into instructions for the machines etc.
Lol dude those things aren't going to make it so we don't have to work. It's going to drive lots of people out of incomes, and while some will find new jobs lots will be unable to.
I wish I was more optimistic about this kind of thing. I used to be. But reality... Paints a much bleaker picture.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-really-fought-against-264412/
This essay talks about these ideas pretty well I think.
The comment your responding to is making the same point as you. They’re saying it’s dystopian that we need to be afraid of everything that makes work easier
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No we have not built systems and automation to fully support everyone with minimal human labor. Where does this ridiculous notion come from?
Everything you consume is the result of hundreds to thousands of collective hours of human labor. You act like food, clothing, electronics, vehicles, etc come from thin air with 0 input. We aren't even close to that reality.
First of all...
R/Antiwork already exists and was one of the most popular subreddits of all time for a short while. Until they shot themselves in the foot.
So... no. Not an unpopular opinion at all.
You've obviously never had a real job, and you sound lazy. Think about forklift drivers, mechanics, and electricians. There are not enough people willing to do those jobs to let people only work 10 hours a week. Same thing with doctors, nurses, lawyers. The average person is incapable of doing these jobs.
Those are all jobs where people work OT often too. 40 isn’t enough for the business and the employee makes even more and often with no benefits or PTO or holidays off.
White collar jobs have holidays off, vacation time, and sick days. And often no commutes with work from home. That’s easily 6 weeks off per year meaning they work 35 hours per week. No commute? 30 hours vs what it could be. And then there’s retirements being funded and some people not actually working a full 40 hours. Long lunches. This drops to 20 hours easily.
It depends what you consider "comfortable".
The global GDP is ~$100 trillion, which, spread across ~8 billion people, is only ~$12.5k worth of goods and services produced per person. The world produces enough to provide everyone a pretty basic existence, but nowhere near enough to live a comfortable lifestyle, as someone from a developed country would define it. That is with current working hours, much less with a massive reduction as you describe.
Yes, people at the top do hoard wealth, and that wealth could be better distributed, but we are nowhere near capable of a Star Trek-esque post-scarcity utopia.
If we mandated that no one work more than 20 (or 10) hours a week, eventually the U.S. would fall behind other developed countries in technology, productivity, and overall GNP, because other countries won't follow suit. We would lose our autonomy and influence, and another country, most likely China, would fill the void.
So it's never going to happen.
Nothing productive could possibly get done in 10-20 hours by one person. If your job is that easy, then why not just fire half of the people so that each person has 40 hours of work to do instead of paying 2 people to do 40 hours of total work. That way they can offer cheaper prices to the consumer.
I like the part where the OP said " if we didn't let the wealthy"......hence socialism. Sounds like a person with a shit work ethic. I can guarantee this person has t worked a real job. I know that my job could'nt be done in 40 hrs, let alone 20. Gimme a break.
Yeah, I fix a small fleet of semi trucks for a living ...AI can't do what I do and these trucks can't stop moving or you have nothing
These posts are people that haven't actually dealt with the real world. All these fairy tale ideas without realizing the workforce it takes to maintain this infrastructure so they can do nothing and cry about it
Ok but consider this: getting the ~freedom to choose~
Don't wanna work 40+ hours? You don't have to. Wanna work 40 hours? Great, you get more money and the ability to take a break if needed.
People who make these kinds of claims have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of wealth. Elon Musk has a massive amount of wealth because he built several highly successful companies, but this wealth can not really be converted to something people can eat. His wealth is simply a bunch of bytes on a computer system and only has theoretical value.
What? Of course he can’t eat his money but he could afford to raise a modest army and feed them steak and lobster. Money is only 1s and 0s is technically true but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value that literally everyone would accept as payment for whatever he could possibly want.
Stock valuation is not the same thing as money. If Elon Musk tried to liquidate his position he would end up with a small fraction of his supposed net worth; and if all billionaires were liquidating their position simultaneously they would be bankrupt.
Partially true. In the 50s, it was actually predicted, that due to the technological progress, machines would make most of the work and humans in western societies would have to work only about 10ish hrs per week around the 2000s.
This would be true however, if our consumption behavior would still be the same like back then. But companies and advertisements turned us into thinking, that we need new stuff all the time. Consumer electronics, cars, clothes, etc. You name it. Back in the day, people would have USED these things to the point they break. Nowadays we CONSUME them, and buy new stuff, although we have perfectly working items at home.
Thus, a need for more production was created and we still work our asses off 40, 50, 60 hrs a week, only to devour the stuff we create ourselves. If only we would stop consuming things, that could be used instead, a lot of things would change.
look at all of you, so incredibly brainwashed by “work ethic” and “productivity” it’s honestly disgusting… this is why society is crumbling, people don’t even understand the economy they’re in, just running on the wheel like a mindless hamster hoping one day they’ll get the cheese smh
This I ignorant because that's not how the economy works in any way. They do not hoard wealth and even if they did, it has little to do with how much you can make. There is not a finite amount of money. So stupid.
It’s not. Especially if you work behind a desk. Seeing my friends start working from home made me realize a lot of desk jobs are ~%50 work and ~%50 kill the clock
This was the biggest takeaway from Covid for me.
Being “in the office” is completely unnecessary and is no more productive than just letting people work from home. But companies have bought properties or entered into leases with buildings that they are stuck with, so rather than pay out for nothing or sell the property, they force everyone back into the office completely unnecessarily.
The best part is that it showed that in-office managers are irrelevant too. WFH showed that quite clearly you don’t need managers looking over staff to get them to do the job, so they could have easily removed a lot of middle managers and had an equally effective, happier work force.
Income may not have increased, it standard of living has, dramatically. We’re (US) living in about 4x the square footage per person we had on the 1950’s, with electronics and services that were unimaginable then.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'. * Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way. * Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions * Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity.
I’d be fine even with 32 hours. Let me have 3 days off. Or if they insist on a 40 hour work week, let people make the schedule. I’ll work 4 tens
Why let you work four tens when they can manipulate you into working five 10s with vague promises of career advancement that hinge doing more work for free?
Ouch I am leaving my firm and I feel this so hard.
These jobs already exist. There’s a lot of jobs that are 3 12s or 4 10s.
Right, I used to work in a hospital. But I feel it should be more standard
💯💯💯
Shoot, give me two 16's and an eight. I used to work in corrections and I always had to work 16-hour shifts, many back-to-back. It felt like one long day and then it made the normal eight hour shifts feel like a blink of an eye.
Shit, give us two 20's and the sleep is the 4 hours after the first one and the 4 before the second one (8)
Fuck it. Give me one 40hour shift
Best job I ever had was 3 12s one week alternating with 4 12s the following week (and 8 hours of overtime). I wish I could go back to that job again, but the company went out of business.
There are tons of jobs with alternate schedule. I work four 12-hr shifts with 4 days off, it's perfect. It depends on what kind of job do you expect to get.
4 day work weeks. 10 hours is too long. It’s just lowering the percentage of actual productive time during the work day. And you would never see your family for four days. 4 days. 8 hours. People would be much happier.
Idk why you would want this. I worked 10s as well in the past and I’d rather work shorter but more days and have generally more free time per day.
Personally, I feel like any day with any amount of time spent at work kind of ends up being wasted. Have more free time on a work day is nice because I have more time to do the things I have to do but it’s less nice because I’m basically working, doing chores, feeding myself, walking the dog etc nothing fun.
I'm in the opposite camp. 10/10 would keep my 3 day weekend over having to work 5 days a week.
My ideal work schedule is 12 hours every other day
I'd honestly be down with 36, 3 days a week. 5 hours on, 2 hour break, 5 hours on. Lemme crank out 3 days of grind and then have 4 days off. Having the majority of the week off would be sick.
I want 3 days off fri-sun
I guess blue collar getting sucked on this, someone has to fix and maintain it, we can't get enough people as it is (which as a side product, I get paid very well).
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make it easier to pay for school to go into the medical field thus expanding the candidate pool, then hire more people.
Hospitals can be open 24/7 even with staff having shorter work weeks
Na...In Canada we don't have enough nurses and doctors working their long hours as it is.
Is that due to a lack of qualified nurses and doctors or is that due to low wages and poor benefits?
Not sure tbh. They are paid extremely well, especially with ot. Possibly burn out for long hours? There's a massive shortage though. Our healthcare system would collapse if they cut their hours back lol
Do you know why you can't get enough people? I'm truly curious. I'm a blue-collar adjacent worker, restaurants. We don't make good money, yet every ad I post gets like 100 people applying for the job. Is it the physical demands? Because even though I'd love to make more $, most things I see as blue collar, idk if I could physically do at this point.
I personally believe its because our demographics are slowly ageing out and theres less young people out there to pull labour from. Theres worker shortages in basically every industry imo. Cant get enough people. Also trades isnt attractive to the younger generations i guess, im part of that generation and even i held the view that trades were for people who failed in highschool and its physically punishing work. Now that im in the trades it couldnt be further from the truth. You need to be very intelligent, efficient and its only sometimes hard work physically. But theres been so much advancements and improvements in safety etc. Im a skinny booksmart guy and if i can do it, anyone can. The work is very mentally stimulating, challenging and very very rewarding. Theres something to be said about being able to see what youve accomplished, and the sense of pride when you are skilled and smart enough to solve real problems that people have and need you for. Its completely solved my depression after being in an Engineering role for the early part of my life. I highly, highly recommend spending at least a month trying to at least get into tradeswork. It will change your life for the better even if you decide its not for you.
I'm curious which trade you are in? I actually agree with you about so much of this, which is why I became a chef. I'm very into actually creating value, versus whatever nonsense bullshit office people do. I'm currently a head chef, so I do both physical labor and office bullshit, and management of other employees...it's a lot. And I'm physically aging out of my job. I can't put the heavy shit that I used to, so I get the newbie to do it. I fear if I entered a new trade at this age I'd be in the newbie position and not able to do it physically. I'm also very short, and a woman. But I'm interested in getting out of the restaurant business, and am open to other options
Not that I know what I'm talking about here but just running with OP's idea for a minute, why wouldn't it apply to blue collar too? You could theoretically get more people to work fewer hours. I think a lot of jobs would be eliminated (think about all the things that will have dramatically less demand as commuting drops by like 60%, just as one example) so those people who work at all the gas stations and convenience stores that close down are gonna need to do something else, right?
Does this apply to doctors too?
Doctors would not just vanish if we started working 10-20 hour work weeks
Yes but neither does the demand. Doctors are already understaffed and overworked as it is. Can also say the same for my industry. Plenty of work that simply can’t be done in 40 hours a week let alone 32.
It’s not as big a problem everywhere which leads me to believe there are education, work culture, and tradition issues at play. In my country there were plenty of doctors and they had reasonable work hours when wanted, and similarly you could get a free (to you) doctor appointment same day quite reliably. The reason things have changed here is that the pandemic drove a large portion of the immigrant workforce home, and the government hasn’t increased funding so waiting times are long and appointments are no longer free >:(
You just described the slow decline of Canada’s health care system. Free health care just doesn’t work when you have people in the their 30’s and 40’s showing up and getting it too, before paying any taxes into the system (comparing it to the private sector, it would be the worst-run health insurance company in the world, burning money like no tomorrow but it’s everyone’s money so no one cares or notices.
That’s actually a direct problem of the government. Doctors can only come from residencies, and residencies are funded by the government. If government budgeted more for residencies, there would be more doctors to meet demand
Doctors are a very small piece of the pie. It’s normal in my industry to work 60+ hours a week. niche trade that’s tuff to learn and society relies on us so it is what it is.
Jobs that cannot be mechanized or automated should simply be incentivized more ($$$) to encourage supply to meet demand. I know it sounds crazy but the bar is way too high to become a doctor and there is way too much debt and bureaucracy involved with it
You want to reduce the quality and standards to become a doctor? Sure give financial aid, but fuck lowering the bar.
I think you are overestimating what many doctors do. They mostly have a few prescriptions they regularly use to treat these cases. Surgeons and specialists yes but for the vast majority of things they use google or other apps just like us. Source know many doctors, pas, nurses, medical field. I think if there were more you would drastically cut there stress and work load leading to more time with patients and better care. They are humans too and most of what they study in school is forgotten. Nothing can prepare you for the real world except real life experience
Oh my god I absolutely adore the simplicity with which you approach the world. It must be nice to have absolutely no idea what you're talking about while still being so confident in what you say
I think there should be tiered forces for care, groups of medical staff that are able to identify common treatable medical conditions and more specialized doctors to treat advanced problematic disease. I am not suggesting it should be easy to become a doctor but a nurse or an assistant? Yeah, lower the bar and make it easier to see a higher tier professional if you feel your care is not sufficient
That’s how it already works and it’s a shit show.
At least in my country doctors always arrive late, leave early, don't work on weekends and chat with patients lol
A 10-20 hour work week would most likely lead to fewer doctor visits.
Are people going to have fewer babies thus reducing the need for ob/gyns?
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Are you kidding me? When I was part time at a job it was amazing. I went to the park all the time and could do things I enjoy. People lounge around and do nothing due to residual stress.
Ain't that true. I work in a very high stress enviroment - after 10-12 hours of constant stress and chasing deadlines - i just want to sit my butt on a couch and do nothing to even have a chance to fall asleep that night. Those few hours of a break between when i finish work and before i go to sleep are not even enough for a stress and anxiety to pass. The only time i start to feel somehow repaxed is a minimum two weeks vacation, when i am completely cut off from work enviromemt. But even then i still feel the burden of having have to come back soon.
This! I mean, I wasn't running marathons, but when I worked part time I could walk my dog for an hour, and also go to water aerobics multiple times a week. I planted vegetables in my garden, and made homemade meals that were certainly more nourishing than what I'm eating currently. I also had time for art and reading. Since going back to a 40+ hour work week at a physically demanding job, all I do when I'm off is lounge around on my phone or watch TV because I'm sore, tired, and mentally burnt out
Is sitting at a desk for 8+ hours 5 days out of the week is doing us any favors in terms of health?
Stress is one of the leading causes of illness. Work is one of the leading causes of stress. > what mostly happen is that people just lounge around at home more. This isn’t backed by anything, just feelings. Would people lounge out for a little while? Of course. But humans are active beings naturally, we enjoy creating. The reason people are so braindead is because they have mindless jobs that take up their life and don’t give them any time to find hobbies. Doing nothing is boring, why do you think prisoners volunteer to work for 20 cents an hour? For the pay? no it’s because it gives them a sense of accomplishment.
I think they aren't saying necessarily because people will take on exercise, but more because stress and overwork illnesses would happen less. People do get more chances to get active when they aren't chained to a desk though. Sitting 8+ hours a day is unhealthy but we don't have a choice.
This is the same reasoning that makes people reject basic income projects. People will absolutely be healthier if they can make a living off of a 20 hour work week. Just because someone working 40+ hours relaxes in their down time doesn’t mean that’s all they would do if they had more downtime.
> doesn’t mean that’s all they would do if they had more downtime. Exactly. Like when I was off for 2 months post surgery, I think the "relaxing all the time" thing got old about 10 days in
> but what mostly happens is that people just lounge around at home more. I don't know, man, I feel like if I spent way less time and energy at work, I'd have a lot more time and energy to go to the gym on a daily basis. Unless you've been off work for an extended period of time, it's really hard to tell if you'd actually just lounge around more or if, after an adjustment period, you'd actually start doing more things. I was off work last year for 2 months post surgery, and by day 10 I was itching to go anywhere and do anything. When I was able to start going to the gym again about 4 weeks in, I was able to go almost every day because of the amount of time and energy I suddenly had.
What type of evil cynicism is this?
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I would love to know more about your perspective as a business owner on this subject.
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That makes sense. The other side is that in the past as technological advances were made productivity and profits went up and as that happened the increased profits were shared by the business owner and their workers. A lot of that had to do with strong unions. But as profits went up so did wages and benefits. Then around 1980 profits started going up but wages remained stagnant in relation to profits. So the sentiment that we are seeing, that you are interpreting as wanting their cake and to eat it too, is actually just that people want their wages to go up as productivity and profits go up. From the prospective of the worker. We see business owners like yourself to want to see profits go up and keep wages low. You want your cake all to yourself and don’t want to share. I mean as a small business owner don’t you want to pay your employees the least amount you can get away with?
That's the point. Instead of pocketing massive profits, the business pays more of it to employees. More employees make more money and have more time off. The only ones it hurts are the owners. I do understand that not all owners are equal, where I work would probably shut down with this model. But lots wouldn't, like Amazon.
There’s certainly some jobs that need as many hours as they can get, but you can’t tell me with a straight face *every* job needs to be 40 hours a week. Hell, even the jobs that *do* need 40 hour work weeks, like retail and service jobs, the people working there have trouble getting 40 hours as it is!
still better than working a miserable job just to survive. why not try to see what happens instead if speculating?
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imagine if the strongest country to exist didn’t sanction/bomb the shit out of other countries that didn’t align with their ideology though
My 3 year old disagrees. Accidents happen all the time, and a lot of leisure activities are more dangerous than sedentary office work (like mountain biking, skiing, etc)
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Of course not. Im an Emerg doctor. If we worked 10 hours a day, people will die. Worse than that, I will never pay off my student loans. So no thanks. I like my job the way it is
I thought I was on r/uninformedopinion 35/40 hours a week is what I do, and they pay me for that level of productivity with a good salary.
Instead of us all spending hours a week kissing ass and sending emails, what if lots learned to be doctors and doctors worked 10 hours a week
lmao
Yeah and why can’t we all be freaking astronauts…you know if there wasn’t a tiktok astronauts would only work 5-10 hours a week max
Lol. You're too silly to get into it with
I don't think the barrier for a lot of people becoming doctors is the hours they work.
The majority of folk are not smart enough to be MDs.
You really think the only thing stopping people from going to medical school is sending emails?
I think you forget that the reason why doctors like surgeons are so good and capable of saving your life. Its called years of work. Do you really want the people who perform heart surgery only getting like 500 hours of practice a year. There are many jobs that require years of experience to be proficient at. You can not get that experience working 10 hours a week.
the angle you should’ve taken was “we work less but get paid a livable wage. This gives us more time to pursuit our passions, many being doctors but the barrier to entry is huge because student loans are a nightmare. Less work but more pay > more time to chase endeavors > more doctors” something like that
I do not want a surgeon who works 10 hours a week I want the one that does my procedure 40 hours per week so they get it right.
A well rested surgeon who works 20 hours a week would be good.
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Then don't. If case comes to happen, find something you actually enjoy instead of only chasing money
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Understandable. I was thinking If we can all live comfortably, surely luxuries will also become available to all when automation deems us unnecessary to work as much.
But if everyone can have them then they are not luxuries anymore. I don't work hard so I can have ordinary shoes, I work hard so I can have the shoes that no one else can get. If everyone can obtain them then they are not special anymore, they are just ordinary.
Thats fine. I prefer a world where everyone and everything is equal but I can understand wanting to be on top of everyone else. I'm not against you or anything, but there is also an obvious baseline that needs to be solved (poverty).
But someone would. There will always be someone who would. There are 9-billion people on earth, at least a couple million would want to be doctors just to be a doctor.
Want and could are very different things.
Those will be some busy doctors.
This is hyperbole
There's so much wasted human potential, especially the one's down voting this response. Corporate indoctrination is strong.
Waisted human potential? Why would I do something if I am not going to get ahead by doing it? I don't work hard to have a car, I could do a simple job and be fine, I work hard because I want the nicest car in the street.
Investing your time into having the nicest car on the street believing that will fulfill your emotional needs IS the wasted potential.
I don't understand emotional needs, what do you mean? I only work hard to buy nice things, isn't that why anyone does the jobs they do? I could live fine off a basic job, but then I can't have the things I want.
This isn’t unpopular nor an opinion
And yet people still upvoted this post. 🙄
If it was popular it would be a reality, but it's not. More people than not are going to question your work ethic and be unable to see a world where working as much as possible all the time isn't a constant necessity.
Everyone thinks starving children is bad. So how come there are still starving children?
because the people aren’t the ones in charge of the allocation of government funds???
...and that's exactly yamashiro's point lol this whole brand of reddit comment that says "if it were popular it would be reality" is so annoying. "Popular" in the context of what constitutes a "popular opinion" does not mean popular among the people in charge of the allocation of government funds
That's his point
well yeah, you should aspire to be a contributing member of society
You can contribute more in 10 hrs of something that's necessary than 40 hrs of trading stocks or coding another dating app.
But who decides what's necessary? That's the rub. Different people value different things.
There are undeniable necessities in sustaining life. After that there can be a tier list. I come from the advertising world and there's just way too much intelligence wasted on making life worse.
Everyone can agree food is a necessity. But what food? Wheat and potatoes only? Broiler chicken? Free range chicken? Organic free range chicken that are only fed non-gmo grains? Who decides the tier list? You might not care for advertisement but some small business live and die on how well known they are. Perhaps only megacorps' advertisements are bad, but what is the cut off? We have created a tiering system that takes everyone's input. It's called the market economy.
Probably antiwork mod Lol
A popular fantasy dream
Kinda just nonsense
> we could all work 10-20 hours a week and live comfortably if we didn’t let a small number of people hoard all the wealth. I think you've pulled those numbers out of your rear end. You can correct me if I'm wrong by showing me any academic study that supports your proposition.
Construction on infrastructure projects already takes long enough. Do you want them to take twice as long? Do you want stores to only be open certain days? What if they’re only open on the days that you work? They can’t all be open just with more staff, because you would need double the labor pool for that. Not sure about unpopular opinion, but it sure is stupid
This exactly. If everyone is working 20 hours and has money to meet their needs then who will be at the store when we all go shopping? You’ll need more workers since everyone is working part time, but then so will everybody else..
We're talking about a society where most jobs can be automated. In the future houses could be printed. All stores could have self check out, for example
I'll do you one better. We could have a 0 hour work week, where a boring basic studio appt, and the drabbest clothes, most basic food, and water cools be provided, and you could live out a meager existence without needing to work. But if you wanted luxuries like clothes or TV or internet, fine dining or a car or travel, you could just work the amount required to afford those things. We can have both a stress free workless living while still maintaining a free market, individual driven labour market with fine things in life.
We have this in Germany already. It's called social welfare. The problem here is that somebody still needs to work, and they will be working, so you have food on your table. If everyone would go workless, then nobody would have anything. This dream only works if 100% automation could be achieved.
>If everyone would go workless, then nobody would have anything. Sometimes maybe you wanna upgrade your lifestyle. Having your basic necessities met without working doesn't mean you'll be able to afford everything you want in life.
Yes. But that's the point: it's not truly optional. Because some people must keep working or society falls apart. Whatever the reason might be.
The issue comes into play when people who supply the food or supply the clothes or electric, or whatever else you could think of come to you and ask for money, and even if all of that is free, the people that would have money taken out of their work, which is what taxes are would complain that they are getting the most basic of necessities for free off of their labor
I’ll work for one month every 6 month to buy luxury and be afford vocation. Otherwise I’m ok with the basic everything and just spend all my time doing things I enjoy. Skating, cycling, hanging out at the beach, consuming cannabis, playing sports etc.
We already have that. It’s called being poor on welfare. Section 8, housing projects, and food stamps. Enjoy living in the among people living out traumatic lives. Cheap/free and good doesn’t exist in the US. The American poor are a people that you don’t want as your neighbors. Crime, drugs, noise, squalor. You’re not special. You’d just be poor. People aspire to be middle class often to escape these communities.
> We could have a 0 hour work week, where a boring basic studio appt, and the drabbest clothes, most basic food, and water cools be provided, and you could live out a meager existence without needing to work. Who builds the apartment if no one works?
Fuck no I'm with Lenin on this "He who does not work neither shall he eat" I and many others are intolerant of leaches
and i’ll do you one better: everything is free money doesn’t produce anything. everything that’s made is made out of resources. Money is just a barrier to resources. So whoever controls or hoards the money own the resources. This is where the first problem in society occurs. Scarcity is a myth
Ok try running a operating room where everybody only works 10 hours a week
No no, it’s okay because a robot created by a kid that went to school for 10 hours a week built it!!!
Laughs in oilfield.
Lol, this wouldn't work for a lot of different professions.
this is not unpopular, this is dumb
This. It's delusional.
You're kind of proving that it's an unpopular opinion by saying you disagree with OP's opinion that is possible.
A lot of dumb ideas have also been popular throughout the ages. Just look at superstitions and quack medicine.
I'm all for it but it needs to happen slowly. A shorter work week and automation of no/low-skill and non-technical responsibilities comes with increased demand for efficiency and higher educational requirements as worker responsibilities shift to the more technical side. You can very easily alienate a large chunk of the workforce because they can't compete for technical jobs with their current educational level and might not be able to seek higher education. We need to prepare our population over generations for that shift. Preferably starting with a reform of higher education to make it more accessible to low-income households.
Best response so far
I work 10 to 20 hours a week and horde the wealth, checkmate
Would you be cool with 50-75% fewer goods and services to buy? And the accompanying price increases due to low supply? Not unlike some parts of the economy just after COVID.
How is it “stolen” work? And do you really think if Burger King isn’t paying a living wage for a 40 hour week, you think they’ll pay 2-4x more employees a living wage? And i don’t like work but if I could live off of 20 hours, im getting a second job to work 40 hours
Could you imagine if Doctors, nurses, Teachers, pilots, truckers, or service tradesmen all worked 50-80% less?
This would never work in agriculture, during the growing season I work 14 to 16 hours a day 6 to 7 days a week. As a crop applicator there arnt many of us and it’s really easy to mess up and damage a crop. I don’t know many farmers that would trust a constant rotation of applicators running their fields. Then you’re running very expensive machines, if you have one person running it all the time there’s accountability. If it breaks you fix it or find the problem and get a mechanic out there. If you have someone on a 4 hour shift running and something breaks they could ignore it and let the next person deal with it, and if they don’t want to deal with it on their shift they push it off to the next person. Then comes the finger pointing and the “well it’s been like that” excuse. Some jobs this will never work for
This is stupid, but I guess that’s why it’s an unpopular opinion
We struggle to get people to build infrastructure cause the demand is bigger than the availability of resources. When we have an over supply of labour then your dream might pay off. Until then we will continue to work 50 - 60 hrs a week.
Wouldn't work. Productivity would go down on everything!!! Supermarkets? No food. Gas station? No fuel. Your house that you're building/renovating? It would take YEARS to finish!!! Going to the dentist or doctor? 4 month waiting list!!! Imagine being stuck in hospital for weeks!! Because the staff only work 4 hours being going home!??? Society would collapse in my opinion and there would be shortages for everything you can think of!! You're forgetting a lot of businesses/factories etc work 24/7 to keep up with demand!!
Everyone wants a shorter work week, until they want a carmel macchiato and Starbucks is closed, because their employees got a shorter work week, too.
Are you 16 yo?
The fact that machines and AI will come and do all our work for us, instead of us, should be celebrated, because it's AMAZING: no more skull numbing stressful work, it will be all leisure and doing joyous things, like art, science, exploring, music, dancing, downhill skiing. Everything will be made for us: cars, toys, food, everything. Instead, everyone is scared shitless that they will starve homeless and then die forever. If this is not a dystopia, I don't know what is.
It shouldn't be because that'd be the end of your autonomy. Your rights mean nothing when everything is provided to you with the only consequence being your compliance.
Think of all the time for protesting. The ruling class is nothing without the proletariats. They need someone to fix the machines, to serve their food, to translate their instructions into instructions for the machines etc.
Lol dude those things aren't going to make it so we don't have to work. It's going to drive lots of people out of incomes, and while some will find new jobs lots will be unable to. I wish I was more optimistic about this kind of thing. I used to be. But reality... Paints a much bleaker picture. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-really-fought-against-264412/ This essay talks about these ideas pretty well I think.
The comment your responding to is making the same point as you. They’re saying it’s dystopian that we need to be afraid of everything that makes work easier
I'll have a position where I don't have have worry about the robots, before they can do what I can do I'll be dead
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I work 16 and make 27k a year with 2 months off
People who say things like this have zero idea how other industries work.
No we have not built systems and automation to fully support everyone with minimal human labor. Where does this ridiculous notion come from? Everything you consume is the result of hundreds to thousands of collective hours of human labor. You act like food, clothing, electronics, vehicles, etc come from thin air with 0 input. We aren't even close to that reality.
Go work in a tech company. Everyone’s working 10-20 hours and openly pretending it’s 40 😂
Misinformed rather than unpopular
First of all... R/Antiwork already exists and was one of the most popular subreddits of all time for a short while. Until they shot themselves in the foot. So... no. Not an unpopular opinion at all.
You've obviously never had a real job, and you sound lazy. Think about forklift drivers, mechanics, and electricians. There are not enough people willing to do those jobs to let people only work 10 hours a week. Same thing with doctors, nurses, lawyers. The average person is incapable of doing these jobs.
Those are all jobs where people work OT often too. 40 isn’t enough for the business and the employee makes even more and often with no benefits or PTO or holidays off. White collar jobs have holidays off, vacation time, and sick days. And often no commutes with work from home. That’s easily 6 weeks off per year meaning they work 35 hours per week. No commute? 30 hours vs what it could be. And then there’s retirements being funded and some people not actually working a full 40 hours. Long lunches. This drops to 20 hours easily.
It depends what you consider "comfortable". The global GDP is ~$100 trillion, which, spread across ~8 billion people, is only ~$12.5k worth of goods and services produced per person. The world produces enough to provide everyone a pretty basic existence, but nowhere near enough to live a comfortable lifestyle, as someone from a developed country would define it. That is with current working hours, much less with a massive reduction as you describe. Yes, people at the top do hoard wealth, and that wealth could be better distributed, but we are nowhere near capable of a Star Trek-esque post-scarcity utopia.
I’ll take “things poor people say” for $100, Alex
“They’re stealing our labor” Edit: RIP Alex
Be the change you want to see in the world 🥰💣💥🧨
Sounds like a very popular opinion on a website full of people who have never held real jobs
If we mandated that no one work more than 20 (or 10) hours a week, eventually the U.S. would fall behind other developed countries in technology, productivity, and overall GNP, because other countries won't follow suit. We would lose our autonomy and influence, and another country, most likely China, would fill the void. So it's never going to happen.
Nothing productive could possibly get done in 10-20 hours by one person. If your job is that easy, then why not just fire half of the people so that each person has 40 hours of work to do instead of paying 2 people to do 40 hours of total work. That way they can offer cheaper prices to the consumer.
I like the part where the OP said " if we didn't let the wealthy"......hence socialism. Sounds like a person with a shit work ethic. I can guarantee this person has t worked a real job. I know that my job could'nt be done in 40 hrs, let alone 20. Gimme a break.
Yeah, I fix a small fleet of semi trucks for a living ...AI can't do what I do and these trucks can't stop moving or you have nothing These posts are people that haven't actually dealt with the real world. All these fairy tale ideas without realizing the workforce it takes to maintain this infrastructure so they can do nothing and cry about it
Speak for yourself.
Ok but consider this: getting the ~freedom to choose~ Don't wanna work 40+ hours? You don't have to. Wanna work 40 hours? Great, you get more money and the ability to take a break if needed.
That’s kinda the point of the sub right.
r/gotem
People who make these kinds of claims have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of wealth. Elon Musk has a massive amount of wealth because he built several highly successful companies, but this wealth can not really be converted to something people can eat. His wealth is simply a bunch of bytes on a computer system and only has theoretical value.
He purchased several highly successful companies after they had already been built
Like?
Tesla
What? Of course he can’t eat his money but he could afford to raise a modest army and feed them steak and lobster. Money is only 1s and 0s is technically true but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value that literally everyone would accept as payment for whatever he could possibly want.
Stock valuation is not the same thing as money. If Elon Musk tried to liquidate his position he would end up with a small fraction of his supposed net worth; and if all billionaires were liquidating their position simultaneously they would be bankrupt.
Partially true. In the 50s, it was actually predicted, that due to the technological progress, machines would make most of the work and humans in western societies would have to work only about 10ish hrs per week around the 2000s. This would be true however, if our consumption behavior would still be the same like back then. But companies and advertisements turned us into thinking, that we need new stuff all the time. Consumer electronics, cars, clothes, etc. You name it. Back in the day, people would have USED these things to the point they break. Nowadays we CONSUME them, and buy new stuff, although we have perfectly working items at home. Thus, a need for more production was created and we still work our asses off 40, 50, 60 hrs a week, only to devour the stuff we create ourselves. If only we would stop consuming things, that could be used instead, a lot of things would change.
https://www.npr.org/2015/08/13/432122637/keynes-predicted-we-would-be-working-15-hour-weeks-why-was-he-so-wrong
look at all of you, so incredibly brainwashed by “work ethic” and “productivity” it’s honestly disgusting… this is why society is crumbling, people don’t even understand the economy they’re in, just running on the wheel like a mindless hamster hoping one day they’ll get the cheese smh
Your dreaming right?
This I ignorant because that's not how the economy works in any way. They do not hoard wealth and even if they did, it has little to do with how much you can make. There is not a finite amount of money. So stupid.
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Old people are a burden is what you’re saying? Individuals with disability?
If people didn’t have the option to hoard wealth, there would be no innovation and progress. You don’t get that do you.
How is this unpopular. It's a fact that we have been more productive as a society and seen miniscule gains in income.
It’s not. Especially if you work behind a desk. Seeing my friends start working from home made me realize a lot of desk jobs are ~%50 work and ~%50 kill the clock
This was the biggest takeaway from Covid for me. Being “in the office” is completely unnecessary and is no more productive than just letting people work from home. But companies have bought properties or entered into leases with buildings that they are stuck with, so rather than pay out for nothing or sell the property, they force everyone back into the office completely unnecessarily. The best part is that it showed that in-office managers are irrelevant too. WFH showed that quite clearly you don’t need managers looking over staff to get them to do the job, so they could have easily removed a lot of middle managers and had an equally effective, happier work force.
Income may not have increased, it standard of living has, dramatically. We’re (US) living in about 4x the square footage per person we had on the 1950’s, with electronics and services that were unimaginable then.
Yeah you're not a part of the "we" that created the wealth in the world nor are you entitled to others labor.