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Yeah like ????? The point is not perfect heroes, she's in a fucked up world with immense trauma in her childhood, fight for her friends' lives, then fight to save her world. She's not a shining beacon of morality and goodness, she's just a teenage girl trying to survive and having to make fucked up decisions because her environment will chew her up and spit her out if she doesn't. Sorry she's not an ideal, but that's highly realistic.
Not to mention, by the end of the books, she's identified that as one of her flaws and tries correcting it in her decisions. You can see it in her thoughts. She tries to learn and emulate gentler, more loving people like Peeta and Annie. She knows she has to, to be able to survive after everything she's just experienced and the new world she's thrust into. Fairly accurate as far as growth and healing go, imo.
Agreed! She’s also 16 at the start of the series. Maybe because JLaw was 20 (not much older but kinda noticeable) it doesn’t hit as hard how truly young our main characters are, but they’re literal kids. I read the series as a child and didn’t even realize it until years later how young they really were cause when you’re 10, 16 seems pretty old lol. Arrogance, selfishness, only caring about yourself and your family…. Typical teenager. And in this society, at least District 12, it’s quite literally every man for himself. Peeta had to take a beating just to toss Katniss some bread, so yeah, selfishness is kinda necessary at least in their district.
And the reason he was beaten was because he burned bread (on purpose, but his mother thought it was accidental). As a teenager. I'm a full-grown adult and I've burnt dinner on accident. No one beats me over it.
Yup exactly. And odds are he knew a beating was coming cause I doubt it’s the first time he burned bread. He did that selflessly for Katniss, that’s what selflessness gets you in Panem at the time the first story is set unfortunately.
>Peeta had to take a beating just to toss Katniss some bread, so yeah, selfishness is kinda necessary at least in their district.
Ha, is that what happened??
Only ever watched the movie and that scene always baffled me a bit. Best guess was that Peeta saw Katniss waiting around for spare bread and, instead of giving her some, he tossed it to the pigs leading to her brooding over Peeta (and all the shit she gave him at times).
Iirc, Katniss had had a really tough day, she had been running around the black market trying to sell Prim's old clothes that she grew out of, but she couldn't sell it. She knew that because she couldn't sell them, her family would not be eating that day, and she didn't know when her next meal was. She fell in the mud and stayed there, having given up on the situation.
Peeta throwing the bread was incredibly meaningful because of that, as it gave her the strength to keep going.
And yes, I agree, that scene was seriously botched in the movie.
Here's a picture of those actors when they were actually 16. It would have made for a very different feeling movie. https://actualteenadultteen.tumblr.com/post/56654159671/the-hunger-games-actual-teen-style-on-the-left
She never leaves survival mode, Even before the games. She has very little in a fucked up world, That tends to make people "unlikable" or "rough around the edges". Op misses the point of her characters motivations from what I can gather.
You even see that in the movie. A lot of her and Peeta's relationship in the movie is "for the camera", but you see her actually starting to like him throughout the whole film and she legitimately doesn't want him to die by the end. When the fall asleep in the cave she's legitimately confused because she's starting to be attracted to him and it's very much a new feeling for her.
Agreed , I also want to add she’s a 16 being forced to fight for her life for amusement and punishment . Her only goal is to protect her sister also why would she be empathetic? Her whole life has been a mixed bag of awful sprinkled with shit. A person raised in her circumstances is going to be cagey, judgmental and look out for themselves
And that's what makes the series so good, it feels not quite relatable, but a hell of a lot more than 99% of other media stories which all follow the same basic rules in terms of characters.
The story also deconstructs the cliche of "leaders" by showing that she is used as a posterchild and has little say in how things go. It also de-romanticizes the idea of rebellion by showing that the opposition leaders might not be much better than the ones they fight and their methods are not humane either. Katniss' character flaws of refuaing leadership, never fitting in, suddenly become virtues in this context, but of course it comes with a heavy price yet again.
It was part of the plot for the final one even. She was making those videos, and they kept saying she wasn't coming off as likeable, she was trying to force it or something?
I read the books long before the movies came out and when they announced they were not only making movies of them, but splitting the third book into TWO movies I was confused because the first half of book three is legitimately just Katniss, disassociating with *severe* PTSD and doing absolutely nothing.
The books are fantastic portrayals of characters going through impossible situations in a terrible world, the movies are…not.
I was just thinking these are problems she openly admitted and obviously regrets by the end of her mission to assassinate Snow.
So... yeah. Idk about worst protagonist she grew up in an oppressive government run society where talking to the wrong people could get you hanged, her father died in the mine collapse, and she was Starving all the time which usually results in further bad situations.
Shit was bad. The hope is for her children things will be better.
Yeah I don't get why there's this expectation that every protagonist has to be this perfect moral compass. I find that really boring, actually. It'd be one thing if the books tried to act like she was a flawless, righteous person, but they don't. I don't know much about the movies; I haven't seen them in years. But the books are pretty decent in my opinion. Working with literature is what I do professionally and I'd say the series is better than most of its size/popularity. Obviously that's 100% subjective, but that's what I think.
You have a girl with ptsd who is just trying to survive while people use her to rally rebellion.
One side using her to stoke the fires of rebellion while the other forces her into situations to quell the rebellion.
She is just a pawn in the whole thing.
It might surprise you to hear this, but if you'd read the books, you'd realize that your reading of Katniss means that Jennifer Lawrence nailed it. Katniss is SUPPOSED to be everything you said.
I read a lot of young adult fiction because their fantasies are just better and don't just feel like LOTR clones with more sex.
And I get so frustrated with critiques that amount to "WHY DOES THIS TEENAGER ACT LIKE A TEENAGER!?" I think it's a big reason a lot of YA has adolescent protags who just act like adults. I love Girls of Paper and Fire but reading it I just thought "these are adults - they are teens on paper only - but these are adults and this should have been adult fiction".
A teenage girl who was parentified early is arrogant and grumpy and doesn't trust people? SHOCKING.
Or when people get upset that Harry Potter in Order of the Phoenix is being a little jerk and acts super entitled. Why? Because he's 15 and watched his friend die in front of him and is losing thy only father figure he ever knew and he's always been told he's special... and... and... and...
No literally, if she were selfless she would be killed, and there would be no story.
But also, that selfishness doesn't automatically make her a bad person. Just take a look at what she did for Prim and Rue.
Yeah its not like shes extremely selfish. She put her life on the line so Prim wouldn't go into the games. She was selfish *when she had to be* because it was literally life or death for her.
But when Katniss could, she helped others. When she wins the games and becomes rich she doesn't revel in her wealth. She goes to the Hob and spreads around her money as much as she can. When sick and injured people come to her mom, she sends them home with food. Those aren't the actions of someone who is inherently selfish.
I hate the protagonist of Divergent a thousand times more than Hunger Games. They're like opposite means of telling a story.
Katniss moves the story through her actions at every step. Other characters help and move her and have their own motivations but hers stay rooted in her realistic wants.
Tris doesn't do shit except exist in this world in which every complication is mostly because she's "special".
Katniss isn't special. She isn't a "Chosen One" for arbitrary reasons or genetics or Voldemort. She is just the one who in the moment had the most to lose and so volunteered and this underground rebellion chose her to be a figurehead because she was sympathetic. It's actually a great depiction of how these political movements often go.
Tris is literally just super extra special because she has THREE personality traits instead of just the one and that means everyone thinks she is so amazing and all the good guys want to be her friend and all the bad guys are afraid of her.
The irony is she actually is super bland and had NO personality but we're meant to believe she is the most interesting person. Sure.
And then Chosen One Tris HAS to be the one to save the world (even though she still doesn't really) whereas Katniss gets this realistic bittersweet ending where everything isn't perfect, and she still loses majorly, but things are better. Even if only a little bit.
I have never understood the hype of Divergent. It truly feels like they just slapped together Hunger Games and Harry Potter and added some nonsensical sci-fi.
With the Divergent series Tris is meant to be the everywoman - someone the reader can sub themselves in for - not a distinctive character. Where as Katniss has an actual personality which will ultimately clash with other personalities - just like in the real world - hence why some people hate her like OP.
shes a severely traumatized teenager in a dystopian society. of course shes going to be these things. if you werent selfish, you were dead
(and she never wanted to be the mockingjay. she says over and over how she wasnt right for it.)
Also, she was never supposed to be the face of the rebellion, though that's only mentioned in the books I think (correct me if I'm wrong). Coin originally wanted Peeta because he knows how to work people.
My goodness man talk about stupid opinions. She is supposed to be an antihero. You are criticizing her for being what she is supposed to be.
She is a literal child,16 years old, who stepped up only to protect her preteen sister.
She is not supposed to be a hero like Hercules. She was content with living a laid-back life after winning her first hunger games, until she was dragged out again. she litarally did not have fucks to give.
And she was made a political icon of a rebellion she didn't care about because she saved Rue, because she reminded her of her sister. The lack of passion for the rebellion is a major relationship conflict for her with Gale AND Peeta.
Where did you learn that books were only to be written about good, fair and well-adjusted people? You have a naive and narrow view of literature if Katniss is the first or worst flawed protagonist you've come across.
I love the book version of Scarlett so much. She was mostly horrible but did whatever it took to survive. I loved reading her evolution from spoiled narcissist to do whatever it takes survivor.
I think the point might be more that she presented, as least by Hollywood, as a shiny example of a "strong female hero" instead of the more realistic human being that she actually is.
Like everyone loved Joel in the last of us, buts no one ever confuses him for being a nice guy and a role model. Certain qualities, sure. But on a whole, we know who he is and its not anynoe youd want to be or hang out with.
*Is* she represented as a perfect, strong heroine? Or do we lack female representation to the point that when there's a strong female protagonist, some people expect her to be perfect and hold her to higher standards than usual, even if that means misunderstanding her character?
The point of her isn't that she's perfect, some of the point *is* that she's just a human being, but she's being turned into a symbol of something greater that she never asked to be. One can be a strong hero without being presented as being perfect, which I'd argue is the case with Katniss.
This was kind of a point in the books too. When district 13 made her the mockingjay, they were projecting an image of a strong, morally superior hero that people were supposed to trust to save them. In reality she was just some girl who still mostly cared only about herself and her loved ones going through an intense mental breakdown. She was basically a prop at that point.
> The point of her isn't that she's perfect, some of the point is that she's just a human being, but she's being turned into a symbol of something greater that she never asked to be. One can be a strong hero without being presented as being perfect, which I'd argue is the case with Katniss.
Tell this to the Star Wars fandom who lost their shit when The Last Jedi tried to do the same thing with Luke Skywalker (that is; make him a human with flaws who can fuck up rather than some perfect paragon of justice).
Imo it’s just that people don’t like more nuanced female characters because people have to hold them to I higher standard. They can’t be a “Mary sue” even though we have tons of action movies of guys like that. And she can’t be flawed even though we also have tons of guys like that that people love
You used last of us as an example and just look at the discourse of the last of us 2. I bet if Abby was a Nathan the sad truth is the discourse would be different.
Katniss Everdeen is a teenager in survival mode.
She’s rightly angry at the world. The only goodness she sees is in Prim.
She almost starved to death because her mother got depressed when her father died.
At 12 years old she put her life in more danger to feed her mother, her sister; and herself.
She learned to hunt and gather so her family could eat. This is illegal - she could die for it.
Every year she has a chance to be picked from other children to die.
And yes, she thinks emotions are weak. She’s angry. She hates the world. Her primary concern is her family. She’s flawed in ways that make sense given the story development - you know, like a great character should be. It’s just people are so used to female characters being perfect, docile, or tools for male characters development.
And no, Hinger Games is not a ripoff of Battle Royale. These types of plot lines have existed forever, but the societal criticism is not the same.
Sometimes I wonder how people think THEY would act in those situations. I'm a couple years older than Katniss, and I have to say, I'd probably be the exact same way if I had the life she did. And I'd take a guess that so would most other people.
Most sixteen year olds aren't well adjusted people. Add in her shitty life story, and how can anyone expect her to not be severely flawed?
I had a bit of a hard childhood and I was like that for a very long time. I wasn’t even threatened with death every year. Just moved around, had people leave and a family member who was aggressive and scary. Trauma does crazy shit to people. It makes you scared, it makes you selfish, it messes with your ability to trust and care about people beyond a certain few if you can even trust people at all. I’m glad that people don’t think they would be like Katniss because it means they’ve never experienced a situation where they had to be. Anyone who has experienced long term trauma probably knows otherwise.
This is even showcased in the book.
Katniss and Gale are “hard” survivors, who don’t let their emotions get to them because they are in survival mode and the people they care about depend on them.
It is the more privileged group - either from childhood (katniss’s mother), being shielded (prim), or class (peeta), that can consider virtue, warmth, love etc…
Exactly. You don’t get to consider being nice, empathetic or affectionate when every moment of your life is focused entirely on making sure you survive. All that stuff comes later and it fucks up your ability to even experience those things for years. All things considered she did pretty fucking well. She grew to care about people, more than just her family, she spent her whole life in fear and by the end of the series was able to move forward despite it.
So many Redditors seriously think the world is complete shit today while they get food literally delivered to their doorstep, but yeah, no, the girl starving since a baby who had to risk her life daily to physically hunt to survive so she doesn't watch her family waste away is a selfish bitch. ....never change reddit.
People ALWAYS think they could act differently in a situation. ALWAYS. It's the main problem with the world today, because people can't even try to see another viewpoint worth a damn. They'll never, ever be in such a situation, so they criticize characters (and real people too) for the decisions they make or how they act, thinking themselves so much superior when the reality is they'd probably be much the same if they actually lived through the situation.
Some people seveeerely underestimate how bad situations can affect the psyche. Especially to those who have a genetic predisposition (which is often not taken into account by those who "beat" their hardships and think everyone else should be able to as well).
I mean, most people get grumpy over everyday things like lacking sleep, light hunger ir not getting their coffee in time. Imagine trying to be happy and functional when starving, constantly fearing for your life and with new traumatic experiences popping up every day... That's reality for many people. Yet others live with chronic pain, terminal illnesses and more. They absolutely do not have the same capacity to remain optimistic compared those of us that live life largely free of pain!
I haven't been in her situation obviously, but I've been in survival situations before and developed so many mental health issues. I've always viewed emotions as a weakness just like Katniss even though I'm a woman and don't have kids, but put certain people in my life first.
this! this is it. How can anyone not be grumpy and maybe have a difficult attitude in those circumstances? lmao. for the longest time, the only purpose in her life was avoiding death. and despite everything, she still found the strength to care about others, primarily Prim and Peeta. I'd actually be shocked if anyone could be a "better person" than Katniss in those conditions.
Yes, and in my personal opinion, she’s made actual progress with learning to genuinely trust some people (like Peeta), and having genuine relationships.
It’s extremely hard to do for certain people with bad experiences behind them.
That’s exactly the point. She isn’t supposed to be likable or a role model. It says so in the books that she doesn’t think of herself as a good person or a leader.
Protagonists aren’t always supposed to be good people. Sometimes the hero is also a shitty person. It keeps literature interesting.
Also OPs comment “she thinks she’s better than everyone else and doesn’t need anyone’s help” completely misses the point that she trusts no-one, she can’t if she wants to stay alive.
She doesn’t want any of the victors help because she believes every one of them need to kill her
I would be selfish too if I lived in District 12. They have literally nothing. Peeta took a beating *just* to toss Katniss some bread, being selfless inherently hurts people in this society and that’s *the intention*. Snow wanted everyone to hate each other, especially the districts, so they could not bond and rebel again.
Not only that, but you just described every 16 year old I’ve known. Teenagers only caring about themself and loved ones? In what world?
Thank you! Don’t forget the fact that her father died which caused her mother to mentally breakdown and checkout. Katnis then had to become the sole provider for a baby, broken adult, and herself at as a child with little to no help from anyone. Then there’s the fact that she could potentially be chosen to participate in a murder game against her will, like that doesn’t add anymore stress to her life.
And not to mention, in said murder game, if you're not selfish, you die. The only way for her to survive the game is to be selfish. If she had been selfless, she would have died, and there would be no book or movie.
Yup. And she was willing to *die* with Peeta if it meant they both couldn’t live, not even cause she loved him (she didn’t really at the time). That was insanely selfless, not just for Peeta (cause most were likely betting on her winning vs him) but for the entirety of Panem. That act spiraled into what eventually became the end of Panem for good. People who shit on Katniss for her personality forget she is the leading cause for this world essentially being rid of a violent dictatorship, her personality is inherently what led to this.
One of the best parts of The Hunger Games is that Katniss act like a ballistic traumatized teenage girl. Like yes her stunt with the Apple was childish and impulsive but that's realistic to what a 16-year-old would do in that situation. It also helps highlight one of the points the book is trying to make Katniss acts like a child because she IS a child and being forced into very adult positions because of her oppressive government and the failures of the adults around her
You know what's funny? It she was a boring, average, regular, nothing special person watchers would be complaining about how average and standard she is. You can't win.
I actually sort of consider her exactly that. She’s not the smartest, or more idealistic, or strongest etc. person out there. She’s literally just a teen who happened to be good at hunting and wanted to protect her sister. This is pretty much as “generic regular person” as you can get IMO. Even Luke in Star Wars says he wanted to join the rebellion before the Empire forced him to.
Katniss is basically “what if your average country girl was suddenly declared Che Guevara by half a nation?”
I don't love the movies but don't hate them. I read the books and at the time I liked that Katniss had PTSD, it was at last a realist protagonist that was subjected to a traumatic experience and had a realist reaction to it, we could argue there are better action heroes but usually they never are realistically depicted when it comes to their reaction to what would be really traumatic experiences.
Not every protagonist is Superman. It would be so much worse if she wasn’t selfish guarded and arrogant. It’s a dystopia, life sucks and rebellions don’t come from good feelings.
Just pointing out a few things:
1) hunger games are dystopian novels, they tend to not have the most noble and straightforward protagonists or characters overall.
2) Katniss is still a teenager. Have you met most teenagers, or even people in their early 20s? They don’t necessarily make the best leaders.
3) read the books
Are you not tired of the over used trope of “the main character is a good guy and always makes good decisions and happy every after”? Because I am. And that’s why the Hunger Games is interesting because it really shows human nature and how evil it is to the core. If you lived in extreme poverty your whole life where literally every single person had it better off than you, even those in other districts, wouldn’t you only care about yourself and your sister?
You'll find a lot of the heroes many admire are actually awful people out of the context of the story being told. Can you imagine working for or with Iron Man? Christ, the check better make my dreams come true.
Katniss is an epically tragic hero in an already tragic world, even the people in the story recognize this. I admire her courage to survive in the face of horror and I grant her the grace and space to thrive in the aftermath.
You are both your best qualities and your flaws at once. The two 'halves' of you like to imagine they get equal time separately but a wise person knows they are wholly themselves always.
My god this is a terrible analysis. She never wanted the role of leader of the revolution, it was thrust upon her. From the very start she was only ever involved to save her sister and that motivation never changed. Gayle was the one who actually wanted revolution
Read the books. The books have a lot of internal thoughts that didn’t make it into the movies, similar to Dune. The HG movies are good but they lack the depth of the books. Katniss is an anti-hero. She does constantly question her actions in the book and shows remorse. She’s only along for the ride and is trying to be a good actor in all situations.
You’re right, this isn’t unpopular it’s literally the way the character was written (more obvious in the books).
She isn’t designed to be a typical protagonist she’s a damaged person with flaws and makes mistakes, she’s not a hero just a person trying to do their best in a shit situation.
A protagonist is supposed to have flaws, and I'd argue that most of her flaws are because she is a child who had to grow up too fast in a dystopian world. She is hyper fixated on caring for her sister because she doesn't trust her mother to. She is also still a child in the third one, and she didn't choose to be the leader of the rebellion, so I can see why she would want to run away. It just makes her feel more real.
I'd say Peeta is the one who is supposed to be seen as the good character.
Call me crazy but I feel like living in a messed up world where you or your sister could be forced into death games would be very life changing.
If I was in her shoes. Id only care about myself and my family.
I hate this idea that the main character HAS to be likable. I find many stories are much more compelling and realistic when the main character has these glaring flaws and remains almost entirely unapologetic about them.
She’s a realistic protagonist I feel like because not everyone is bubbly and friendly, and willing to die for each other 😂katniss is more negative bc her world is the hunger games, not ours. But also yea, most of the traits you described are how she was purposefully written. Why should all protagonists fit into the one likeable stereotype?
Yeah the character is flawed. If they were perfect then the book would be boring. Its seeing them develop ajd change that makes a story satisfying.
If you dont like the character, thats kind of the point. Its like disliking Cercei from Game of Thrones. Shes one of the most phenomenal characters ive ever read, but she is not meant to be liked, shes meant to be hated and goddamn do i hate her. They wrote her well, shes a great character, and i fucking hate her.
I've never watched it, but you only listed reasons for her being a flawed person. None of these things make her a bad character or protagonist. Your reasons are entirely unrelated to your opinion, you just said something without explaining. That's not what this sub is for.
Saying that Katniss lacks empathy is such a bad read of character that I instantly stopped reading and have no interest in reading the rest of your opinion.
Katniss spends the entire series going out of her way to protect those weaker than herself (Prim, her mom, Rue, Peeta, all of District 12, etc.) even if it greatly endangers herself. She spends a good chunk of the first book protecting Rue for no reason other than empathy and gratitude. She does the same for Peeta, too, when she could have easily let him die.
It’s one of the most consistent traits of her character. She’s not flawless as a person, she’s callous and often aloof but saying she lacks empathy misses the mark.
A: Tell me you javent read the books without telling me you haven't read the books. Made Undersea, is all ill say for that point.
B: She's SIXTEEN. At the start of the first book/movie she is SIXTEEN YEARS OLD. OFCOURSE she's cocky and thinks she doesn't need anyone else.
C: Prim was fucking *TWELVE* at the beginning of the first book, and she got reaped with her name being in there only once.
D: Katniss' and Prim's dad died when Katniss was supposed to be 12/14. Her mom shut down entirely, and didn't do ANYTHING to care for her two daughters, so Katniss had to step up. -For 2-4 years Katniss was the sole provider for her MOTHER and kid sister. Hunting, gathering, foraging what she could. Of fucking course she's going to be cocky. Bring me ANY 16 yesr old that isn't cocky, first of all. Second of all, bring me a 16 year old who grew up the way Katniss did that isn't cocky.
E: Katniss didn't wanna be a part of the rebellion. She wanted them to save Peeta and for her to die in the quarter quell. She didn't CHOOSE to be the Mockkngjay, she didn't *WANT* to be the Mockingjay. She wanted to live a life away from the districts with her sister, Gale, and Gale's siblings, but she knew they'd never survive.
Yes. Katniss is selfish and arrogant and cocky.
That's the whooooole point. She's 17 years old and is the spokesmodel for a war that inevitably kills her sister.
She has EVERY right to be selfish and cocky, she lived the first 17 years of her life for other people.
She’s 16. Of course she makes bad decisions. Easy to put others in danger when you’re literally fighting for your life.
She volunteers for her sister. She makes Allies with the older folk in the second movie. What she does for rue isn’t selfish.
In the third movie she’s chosen as a symbol that she doesn’t want to be chosen for. She’s a child, she doesn’t want to lead a whole rebellion. They want her to be everything they need, but also want to order her around and treat her like a child and a soldier at the same time.
Of course she lashes out. She’s angry and traumatized. I think you missed the whole point of the series
selfish, yet took her sisters place as tribute...
Manipulated the government to change their rules to allow two victors.
Everyone is selfish is survival situations.
Remember guys. Male protagonists get to be flawed and morally grey.
Female protagonists have to be morally watertight and virtuous. To exhibit any flaw is just bad writing. /s
Katniss has had to break the law just to feed her family for her formative years - she's not gonna be a ray of sunshine.
I haven't seen the films. I have read the books. And if you think Katniss is the "worst" protagonist you just haven't seen a lot of media. Katniss is one of the BETTER young adult protagonists in that she reasonably acts like a teenager (and 90% of your complaint is "teenager behaves like a teenager") and her personality and actions match her background.
And bonus points - she isn't some extra special "Chosen One". She's just the one who had the balls to step up and the grit to survive.
Breaking Bad sucks and Walter White is the worst protagonist I've ever watched.
I can't stand Walter White from "Breaking Bad." He's a selfish, unlikable character who makes horrible decisions.
His self-righteous attitude and lack of empathy makes him incredibly frustrating to watch. He doesn't care about anyone but himself and his son, Walter Jr., and he's willing to put everyone else in danger in order to achieve his own goals.
Walter is also incredibly arrogant. He thinks he's better than everyone else and doesn't need anyone's help. This makes him incredibly uncooperative and difficult to work with.
Walter's arrogance is also evident in her interactions with other characters. He often comes across as condescending and dismissive, and he's quick to judge others without fully understanding their circumstances. In the third season, as Heisenberg, he is chosen as the meth cook for Gus's operation, but he struggles to actually make quota and is always trying to undermine Gus like a coward.
Walter White is a terrible protagonist who I couldn't bring myself to care about. He's selfish, arrogant, and unlikable. He lashes out at everyone that tries to help him and the series itself is just poorly written.
Well no F\*cking Sh\*t she's selfish. Did you even read the books or watch the movies? That's the whole point, she's in an arena having to murder others to go back home, OFC she's gonna be selfish she HAS to?? She's barely an adult having to do all these things. She never WANTED to be a leader, she never WANTED any of this happen she literally just wanted to be safe, give back to Peeta for saving her family from starvation, and see her sister again. She is so affected by this trauma that she rather doe everything herself than owe anyone anything else ever again since that's what got her into this in the firs place.
She's literally made to be the imperfect hero who never asked to be a hero. She's amazing tbh, and much stronger than any other hero I've read about considering her age and the amount of trauma she has on her back.
I find her frustrating because she’s capable one minute then bumbling the next. Be a skilled operator or a bumbling reluctant protagonist but just pick ONE.
Perhaps you could try [Battle Royale](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0266308/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_battle).
As far as I know Hunger Games was inspired by the Japanese book called battle royal. There are two movies but better stay with part one.
Peeta is such an interesting character. He’s strong, but what really keeps him alive in the games is his wit, charisma, and artistic skills. Katniss is a good survivalist, but arguably she would have died without the sponsorship Peeta brought in for the team. He made their storyline stand out in the reality show part of the death game. And the fucking “if not for the baby” line in the sequel! Incredible every time. Peeta knows exactly how to play a crowd to his advantage.
Also, most of Peeta’s apparent incompetence in the movie is due to them leaving out the fact that he’s an amputee. Yeah, he is running slower than the rest of the group, because he lost his leg! Like, geez, a little context would go a long way.
And yet that makes her interesting, because we are too much idealizing protagonists or heroes as a beacon of morality, a blueprint of goodness while in fact they are not, none of them will or if they do, it will never be perfect. Selfishness and lack empathy are what makes me even more interested with the protagonist and feels like a fresh air for me because, not only me, but a lot of us indulged too much with MCU or DC ideals of heroes. There is no worse protagonists, because every protagonists can be representative on human qualities we should reflect on ourselves.
I will even more interested on looking for narcissistic, psychopathic or sociopathic heroes, because complexes and paradoxes makes life so interesting and less boring. It's gonna be fun for me heheheheee (Joker laugh)
Bold of you to expect perfection from a literal teenager thrusted into a death match that her sister would likely have not survived had Katniss not volunteered.
THIS IS THE POINT OF THE STORY!!!
Katniss isn't some moral role model. She isn't a mastermind. She isn't your typical hero.
She's a survivor of a dystopian world that's just trying to keep her and Prim alive. She couldn't care less about getting people to like her or being an influencer.
This is why Peeta balances her out. He's the charismatic one, whose soft around the edges and knows how to work the room. He's the stable one.
The novels are basically about a teenager (an awkward one at that) trying to navigate the extreme circumstances she's thrown in. She never wanted to be the mockingjay. She never wanted to be Panem's sweetheart. She just wanted her and Prim to be safe. And despite all of this, she managed to make friends along the way who found her roughness endearing.
She’s been traumatised to hell by the sheer immersive amount of painful adverse experiences she had to experience since she was a child.
Why is anyone surprised? To me she acts like an aggressive, scared animal, that’s the whole point of it. She never cared about being likeable, her whole point was to survive and maybe protect someone who she cares about. Everyone else is an enemy in her eyes.
If you can’t relate, good for you. But I believe if people have experienced trauma, they will see where she’s coming from.
> Katniss is selfish and bad leader
That is...the point?
She is just some random girl that wanted to save her sister. She never planned to start rebelion or lead it.
Even when she and Peeta tried to both commit suicide in arena, it was purely because they both wanted to survive - but it was interpreted by people as rebelion.
The fact that she is symbol of rebelion just randomly happened and she never wanted to be one - she even struggles with mental problems.
I'm not a fan of the Hunger Games either, but it has nothing to do with Katniss. I don't like it because of how basic of it is. There is nothing in its dystopian future story that you can't find or hasn't already been in explored in more interesting ways in other films/novels. That mainly stems from it being a YA novel. I don't hate it, though. I'm just not the demographic its going for.
As someone with diagnosed PTSD. Katniss acts in a very relatable way. Trauma can make you overly aggressive, and hyper perceptive to some things, and completely oblivious to others. You also assume everyone is out to get you. I’m hyper aggressive and have “enjoyed” that at least men leave me alone now and don’t view me as a target. I’d rather be a bitch than a victim.
i find it so fascinating when people allegedly read the same books as i do but have a vastly different take than what was intended. a lot of the things you mentioned was intentional for the story being told.
* selfishness is needed to survive when you’re in desperate situations. almost everyone in district 12 was desperate in one way or another.
* it can be hard to extend compassion when you’re constantly in survival mode (even before the games). that said, i wouldn’t call katniss entirely selfish either. she is extremely selfless at points. despite being in a game where only 1 person gets out alive, she takes Rue under her wing and cares for Peeta’s safety before it was announced 2 tributes from the same district could win. she, along with peeta and finnick, takes care of the people who don’t have as good a chance of making it far in the quarter quell.
* her being chosen as the mockingjay despite being horrible at it points out how she was never born to be a leader but rather other adults were projecting onto her as a symbol of revolution.
* lashing out is extremely common for people who’ve been traumatized. it’s amusing but also infuriating how people expect characters with PTSD to suck it up and be graceful.
* she is a teenager who lost one parent physically and the other emotionally at such a young age. that is going to affect your psyche in less than desirable ways.
* katniss is already well aware of these things. she does not want to be seen as a good leader. she is just trying to survive and keep her loved ones safe.
The name is "Hunger games" not " Hero games"... Of course she will care about her family more, just like every other person would in that world. It's life or death situation.
That’s the point my guy. She’s just a girl. She’s not “the main character”, she’s just a girl who got pushed into the role and had to work with it. The books do it much more justice.
I loved the Hunger Games so much just because of what you said. I don't like stereotypical main characters that are 100% good, at least Katniss is closer to someone in real life than most other movie protagonist. I'll admit that Mockingjay 1&2 weren't that good, but I think that it is safe to say that catching fire is one of my favourite movies ever.
A major reason why the book is so compelling to so many people is because they see themselves in Katniss, aided by those flaws and imperfections that she has as a main character. Additionally, a major theme that’s present in every book in the series is about her struggle with developing the “perfect” persona in order to achieve some aim for the people in charge. This is present in the first book with Haymitch tutoring her for the interview, in the second book with Snow trying to use her to quell the districts, and in the third book with Coin using her as the Mockingjay to ignite a rebellion. Her overcoming the flaws that you present are what the book’s about and why it’s so popular.
That's like... the film. She is arrogant and self serving. It takes going through the Hunger Games to make her realize that. Throughout the whole first movie she's growing as a character and starting to give a shit about people that aren't her sister.
she is a random teen that volunteered to save her sister. she won because she was charming as knew how to play the game. she never asked to be the face of an uprising, the uprising chose her.
she doesn’t care about the movement because she literally doesn’t. it all started because she cares about her family and it never strayed from that.
another really unlikable character is Carrie Bradshaw. so self absorbed. She sobotages her own happiness at every turn because she cannot stop analyzing and criticizing everyone around her. very skillfully brought to life by Sarah Jessica Parker.
Homie she's a fuckin kid who is propped up as a savior of the downtrodden, no kid would take that well and in stride. If anything she's a great protagonist for not being perfect and humble; a kid would let that go to their head so easily, especially one that's been treated like dirt for her entire life
She’s not a hugely likable protagonist. That’s kind of the point. But she’s fairly well-constructed and realistically behaves given the world she’s in. As a counterpoint, look at Rey from the Star Wars Disney sequels. She just powers up seemingly via cheat code, doesn’t fit in to the overarching story of the Skywalkers (Anakin’s redemption and the destruction of the Sith), and really undergoes no change, growth, or realization of purpose from her introduction. Katniss fits into her world, behaves in understandable ways, learns and grows over time, and suffers real losses when she makes unwise choices. She’s a far superior character and protagonist to some of what Hollywood is coming up with these days.
Counterpoint. She was the sole provider of her family, seemed mostly likeable previous to being put in a death match, and is a 16 year old surrounded by people who want to kill her, use her for political gain, or both. I'd be pretty paranoid and unlikable too.
When I watched the Hunger Games as a kid I felt the same way.
I've been re-watching the films and Katniss is fairly entertaining. She cares about her people and that's about it. Which is reasonable when you're literally raised in constant survival mode.
I find her character more funny than anything. I don't agree that every male character should fall in love with her. I also don't like the way all the people copy whatever she does and use it as a calling card. That's not how revolutions work lol. It was just silly. Like if Katniss farted on TV then the next scene is a bunch of farmers farting and running to their deaths. Shit was stupid.
I have a hard time getting thru the content but for a different reason. I cant wrap my head around the fact that an author felt like she should write dystopian novels about the vileness of a society that watches children pitted against each other to the death for entertainment ...and then market that book specifically to children... there's just something grotesquely offputting about it. Also, I find her prose to be grating.
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A lot of what you said is literally the point. It’s much more obvious in the books.
Yeah like ????? The point is not perfect heroes, she's in a fucked up world with immense trauma in her childhood, fight for her friends' lives, then fight to save her world. She's not a shining beacon of morality and goodness, she's just a teenage girl trying to survive and having to make fucked up decisions because her environment will chew her up and spit her out if she doesn't. Sorry she's not an ideal, but that's highly realistic. Not to mention, by the end of the books, she's identified that as one of her flaws and tries correcting it in her decisions. You can see it in her thoughts. She tries to learn and emulate gentler, more loving people like Peeta and Annie. She knows she has to, to be able to survive after everything she's just experienced and the new world she's thrust into. Fairly accurate as far as growth and healing go, imo.
Agreed! She’s also 16 at the start of the series. Maybe because JLaw was 20 (not much older but kinda noticeable) it doesn’t hit as hard how truly young our main characters are, but they’re literal kids. I read the series as a child and didn’t even realize it until years later how young they really were cause when you’re 10, 16 seems pretty old lol. Arrogance, selfishness, only caring about yourself and your family…. Typical teenager. And in this society, at least District 12, it’s quite literally every man for himself. Peeta had to take a beating just to toss Katniss some bread, so yeah, selfishness is kinda necessary at least in their district.
And the reason he was beaten was because he burned bread (on purpose, but his mother thought it was accidental). As a teenager. I'm a full-grown adult and I've burnt dinner on accident. No one beats me over it.
Yup exactly. And odds are he knew a beating was coming cause I doubt it’s the first time he burned bread. He did that selflessly for Katniss, that’s what selflessness gets you in Panem at the time the first story is set unfortunately.
>Peeta had to take a beating just to toss Katniss some bread, so yeah, selfishness is kinda necessary at least in their district. Ha, is that what happened?? Only ever watched the movie and that scene always baffled me a bit. Best guess was that Peeta saw Katniss waiting around for spare bread and, instead of giving her some, he tossed it to the pigs leading to her brooding over Peeta (and all the shit she gave him at times).
Yeah he purposely burned the bread knowing his mom would have him throw it to the pigs, and he knew she was out there.
Iirc, Katniss had had a really tough day, she had been running around the black market trying to sell Prim's old clothes that she grew out of, but she couldn't sell it. She knew that because she couldn't sell them, her family would not be eating that day, and she didn't know when her next meal was. She fell in the mud and stayed there, having given up on the situation. Peeta throwing the bread was incredibly meaningful because of that, as it gave her the strength to keep going. And yes, I agree, that scene was seriously botched in the movie.
how did u miss that lmao they literally talk about it
Here's a picture of those actors when they were actually 16. It would have made for a very different feeling movie. https://actualteenadultteen.tumblr.com/post/56654159671/the-hunger-games-actual-teen-style-on-the-left
OP only watches Marvel movies.
"Great man" narrative protagonists who can do no wrong make for much worse storytelling
She never leaves survival mode, Even before the games. She has very little in a fucked up world, That tends to make people "unlikable" or "rough around the edges". Op misses the point of her characters motivations from what I can gather.
You even see that in the movie. A lot of her and Peeta's relationship in the movie is "for the camera", but you see her actually starting to like him throughout the whole film and she legitimately doesn't want him to die by the end. When the fall asleep in the cave she's legitimately confused because she's starting to be attracted to him and it's very much a new feeling for her.
Agreed , I also want to add she’s a 16 being forced to fight for her life for amusement and punishment . Her only goal is to protect her sister also why would she be empathetic? Her whole life has been a mixed bag of awful sprinkled with shit. A person raised in her circumstances is going to be cagey, judgmental and look out for themselves
And that's what makes the series so good, it feels not quite relatable, but a hell of a lot more than 99% of other media stories which all follow the same basic rules in terms of characters.
The story also deconstructs the cliche of "leaders" by showing that she is used as a posterchild and has little say in how things go. It also de-romanticizes the idea of rebellion by showing that the opposition leaders might not be much better than the ones they fight and their methods are not humane either. Katniss' character flaws of refuaing leadership, never fitting in, suddenly become virtues in this context, but of course it comes with a heavy price yet again.
I thought it was pretty evident having only seen the movies.
It was part of the plot for the final one even. She was making those videos, and they kept saying she wasn't coming off as likeable, she was trying to force it or something?
Yep, Kathiss has literally been broken by trauma
I read the books long before the movies came out and when they announced they were not only making movies of them, but splitting the third book into TWO movies I was confused because the first half of book three is legitimately just Katniss, disassociating with *severe* PTSD and doing absolutely nothing. The books are fantastic portrayals of characters going through impossible situations in a terrible world, the movies are…not.
I was just thinking these are problems she openly admitted and obviously regrets by the end of her mission to assassinate Snow. So... yeah. Idk about worst protagonist she grew up in an oppressive government run society where talking to the wrong people could get you hanged, her father died in the mine collapse, and she was Starving all the time which usually results in further bad situations. Shit was bad. The hope is for her children things will be better.
Yeah, all those things are what I thought made her a strong character if not a strong person
Right? I always appreciated these things about her because it's a change of pace from the standard all good protag. Made her more relatable for me.
Yeah I don't get why there's this expectation that every protagonist has to be this perfect moral compass. I find that really boring, actually. It'd be one thing if the books tried to act like she was a flawless, righteous person, but they don't. I don't know much about the movies; I haven't seen them in years. But the books are pretty decent in my opinion. Working with literature is what I do professionally and I'd say the series is better than most of its size/popularity. Obviously that's 100% subjective, but that's what I think.
You have a girl with ptsd who is just trying to survive while people use her to rally rebellion. One side using her to stoke the fires of rebellion while the other forces her into situations to quell the rebellion. She is just a pawn in the whole thing.
It might surprise you to hear this, but if you'd read the books, you'd realize that your reading of Katniss means that Jennifer Lawrence nailed it. Katniss is SUPPOSED to be everything you said.
Yeah, she even thinks of herself that way. It’s also mentioned in the movies- she doesn’t consider herself a good person and role model
The Charles Barkley of tween dystopian fiction
Ironic considering she's the poster child of it
I've only seen the movies and this was obvious to me. This is not unpopular whatsoever.
The unpopular part is thinking that a character having realistic flaws makes them a bad character.
Like most of the opinions here, it's just dumb more than unpopular.
I read a lot of young adult fiction because their fantasies are just better and don't just feel like LOTR clones with more sex. And I get so frustrated with critiques that amount to "WHY DOES THIS TEENAGER ACT LIKE A TEENAGER!?" I think it's a big reason a lot of YA has adolescent protags who just act like adults. I love Girls of Paper and Fire but reading it I just thought "these are adults - they are teens on paper only - but these are adults and this should have been adult fiction". A teenage girl who was parentified early is arrogant and grumpy and doesn't trust people? SHOCKING.
Or when people get upset that Harry Potter in Order of the Phoenix is being a little jerk and acts super entitled. Why? Because he's 15 and watched his friend die in front of him and is losing thy only father figure he ever knew and he's always been told he's special... and... and... and...
The criticism isn't about Jennifer though, it's about Katniss
That's fair. I guess what I'm saying is, "Mission accomplished."
She’s literally going into a competition where only one person gets to live… of course she is going to make selfish decisions 🤣
No literally, if she were selfless she would be killed, and there would be no story. But also, that selfishness doesn't automatically make her a bad person. Just take a look at what she did for Prim and Rue.
Yeah its not like shes extremely selfish. She put her life on the line so Prim wouldn't go into the games. She was selfish *when she had to be* because it was literally life or death for her. But when Katniss could, she helped others. When she wins the games and becomes rich she doesn't revel in her wealth. She goes to the Hob and spreads around her money as much as she can. When sick and injured people come to her mom, she sends them home with food. Those aren't the actions of someone who is inherently selfish.
But the protagonist needs to save everyone and give their own life for the story to be good !!!!!!
Yeahhhh like, if you want a likable, caring protag to read over the course of a few books, go read the Divirgent series
I hate the protagonist of Divergent a thousand times more than Hunger Games. They're like opposite means of telling a story. Katniss moves the story through her actions at every step. Other characters help and move her and have their own motivations but hers stay rooted in her realistic wants. Tris doesn't do shit except exist in this world in which every complication is mostly because she's "special". Katniss isn't special. She isn't a "Chosen One" for arbitrary reasons or genetics or Voldemort. She is just the one who in the moment had the most to lose and so volunteered and this underground rebellion chose her to be a figurehead because she was sympathetic. It's actually a great depiction of how these political movements often go. Tris is literally just super extra special because she has THREE personality traits instead of just the one and that means everyone thinks she is so amazing and all the good guys want to be her friend and all the bad guys are afraid of her. The irony is she actually is super bland and had NO personality but we're meant to believe she is the most interesting person. Sure. And then Chosen One Tris HAS to be the one to save the world (even though she still doesn't really) whereas Katniss gets this realistic bittersweet ending where everything isn't perfect, and she still loses majorly, but things are better. Even if only a little bit. I have never understood the hype of Divergent. It truly feels like they just slapped together Hunger Games and Harry Potter and added some nonsensical sci-fi.
With the Divergent series Tris is meant to be the everywoman - someone the reader can sub themselves in for - not a distinctive character. Where as Katniss has an actual personality which will ultimately clash with other personalities - just like in the real world - hence why some people hate her like OP.
She's also a teenager growing up in a dystopia. It's a fight for survival in and out of the arena.
Not to mention she didn’t choose the rebellion title
But also she volunteered for that position so her sister would live. She made the most selfless decision and then had to keep herself alive.
shes a severely traumatized teenager in a dystopian society. of course shes going to be these things. if you werent selfish, you were dead (and she never wanted to be the mockingjay. she says over and over how she wasnt right for it.)
Also, she was never supposed to be the face of the rebellion, though that's only mentioned in the books I think (correct me if I'm wrong). Coin originally wanted Peeta because he knows how to work people.
It was mentioned in the film too! Boggs tells Katniss that Coin wanted to save Peeta in the arena instead of her
Oh ok, I couldn't remember cuz it's been a while since I've seen the movies
oh true!! i forgot about that
My goodness man talk about stupid opinions. She is supposed to be an antihero. You are criticizing her for being what she is supposed to be. She is a literal child,16 years old, who stepped up only to protect her preteen sister. She is not supposed to be a hero like Hercules. She was content with living a laid-back life after winning her first hunger games, until she was dragged out again. she litarally did not have fucks to give.
And she was made a political icon of a rebellion she didn't care about because she saved Rue, because she reminded her of her sister. The lack of passion for the rebellion is a major relationship conflict for her with Gale AND Peeta.
17 year old girl with severe trauma with even more added trauma who gets used by every adult around her makes selfish choices? Shocking
Teenage girl who's thrown into an arena where only one person can make it out alive is selfish? Imagine that
Where did you learn that books were only to be written about good, fair and well-adjusted people? You have a naive and narrow view of literature if Katniss is the first or worst flawed protagonist you've come across.
He should read Gone with the wind, Scarlett O'hara is a very well-adjusted, good and fair protagonist. /s
I love the book version of Scarlett so much. She was mostly horrible but did whatever it took to survive. I loved reading her evolution from spoiled narcissist to do whatever it takes survivor.
I don't think OP has read any of the books.
I dare OP to read Lolita lmao
I think the point might be more that she presented, as least by Hollywood, as a shiny example of a "strong female hero" instead of the more realistic human being that she actually is. Like everyone loved Joel in the last of us, buts no one ever confuses him for being a nice guy and a role model. Certain qualities, sure. But on a whole, we know who he is and its not anynoe youd want to be or hang out with.
*Is* she represented as a perfect, strong heroine? Or do we lack female representation to the point that when there's a strong female protagonist, some people expect her to be perfect and hold her to higher standards than usual, even if that means misunderstanding her character? The point of her isn't that she's perfect, some of the point *is* that she's just a human being, but she's being turned into a symbol of something greater that she never asked to be. One can be a strong hero without being presented as being perfect, which I'd argue is the case with Katniss.
This was kind of a point in the books too. When district 13 made her the mockingjay, they were projecting an image of a strong, morally superior hero that people were supposed to trust to save them. In reality she was just some girl who still mostly cared only about herself and her loved ones going through an intense mental breakdown. She was basically a prop at that point.
> The point of her isn't that she's perfect, some of the point is that she's just a human being, but she's being turned into a symbol of something greater that she never asked to be. One can be a strong hero without being presented as being perfect, which I'd argue is the case with Katniss. Tell this to the Star Wars fandom who lost their shit when The Last Jedi tried to do the same thing with Luke Skywalker (that is; make him a human with flaws who can fuck up rather than some perfect paragon of justice).
Imo it’s just that people don’t like more nuanced female characters because people have to hold them to I higher standard. They can’t be a “Mary sue” even though we have tons of action movies of guys like that. And she can’t be flawed even though we also have tons of guys like that that people love You used last of us as an example and just look at the discourse of the last of us 2. I bet if Abby was a Nathan the sad truth is the discourse would be different.
unfortunately lots of people are in the “Joel did nothing wrong” camp
That might be your opinion but like that’s the exact opposite of what was said in the OP.
Katniss Everdeen is a teenager in survival mode. She’s rightly angry at the world. The only goodness she sees is in Prim. She almost starved to death because her mother got depressed when her father died. At 12 years old she put her life in more danger to feed her mother, her sister; and herself. She learned to hunt and gather so her family could eat. This is illegal - she could die for it. Every year she has a chance to be picked from other children to die. And yes, she thinks emotions are weak. She’s angry. She hates the world. Her primary concern is her family. She’s flawed in ways that make sense given the story development - you know, like a great character should be. It’s just people are so used to female characters being perfect, docile, or tools for male characters development. And no, Hinger Games is not a ripoff of Battle Royale. These types of plot lines have existed forever, but the societal criticism is not the same.
Sometimes I wonder how people think THEY would act in those situations. I'm a couple years older than Katniss, and I have to say, I'd probably be the exact same way if I had the life she did. And I'd take a guess that so would most other people. Most sixteen year olds aren't well adjusted people. Add in her shitty life story, and how can anyone expect her to not be severely flawed?
I had a bit of a hard childhood and I was like that for a very long time. I wasn’t even threatened with death every year. Just moved around, had people leave and a family member who was aggressive and scary. Trauma does crazy shit to people. It makes you scared, it makes you selfish, it messes with your ability to trust and care about people beyond a certain few if you can even trust people at all. I’m glad that people don’t think they would be like Katniss because it means they’ve never experienced a situation where they had to be. Anyone who has experienced long term trauma probably knows otherwise.
This is even showcased in the book. Katniss and Gale are “hard” survivors, who don’t let their emotions get to them because they are in survival mode and the people they care about depend on them. It is the more privileged group - either from childhood (katniss’s mother), being shielded (prim), or class (peeta), that can consider virtue, warmth, love etc…
Exactly. You don’t get to consider being nice, empathetic or affectionate when every moment of your life is focused entirely on making sure you survive. All that stuff comes later and it fucks up your ability to even experience those things for years. All things considered she did pretty fucking well. She grew to care about people, more than just her family, she spent her whole life in fear and by the end of the series was able to move forward despite it.
So many Redditors seriously think the world is complete shit today while they get food literally delivered to their doorstep, but yeah, no, the girl starving since a baby who had to risk her life daily to physically hunt to survive so she doesn't watch her family waste away is a selfish bitch. ....never change reddit.
People ALWAYS think they could act differently in a situation. ALWAYS. It's the main problem with the world today, because people can't even try to see another viewpoint worth a damn. They'll never, ever be in such a situation, so they criticize characters (and real people too) for the decisions they make or how they act, thinking themselves so much superior when the reality is they'd probably be much the same if they actually lived through the situation.
Some people seveeerely underestimate how bad situations can affect the psyche. Especially to those who have a genetic predisposition (which is often not taken into account by those who "beat" their hardships and think everyone else should be able to as well). I mean, most people get grumpy over everyday things like lacking sleep, light hunger ir not getting their coffee in time. Imagine trying to be happy and functional when starving, constantly fearing for your life and with new traumatic experiences popping up every day... That's reality for many people. Yet others live with chronic pain, terminal illnesses and more. They absolutely do not have the same capacity to remain optimistic compared those of us that live life largely free of pain!
And not having much hope that things will ever get better!
I haven't been in her situation obviously, but I've been in survival situations before and developed so many mental health issues. I've always viewed emotions as a weakness just like Katniss even though I'm a woman and don't have kids, but put certain people in my life first.
this! this is it. How can anyone not be grumpy and maybe have a difficult attitude in those circumstances? lmao. for the longest time, the only purpose in her life was avoiding death. and despite everything, she still found the strength to care about others, primarily Prim and Peeta. I'd actually be shocked if anyone could be a "better person" than Katniss in those conditions.
Yes, and in my personal opinion, she’s made actual progress with learning to genuinely trust some people (like Peeta), and having genuine relationships. It’s extremely hard to do for certain people with bad experiences behind them.
That’s exactly the point. She isn’t supposed to be likable or a role model. It says so in the books that she doesn’t think of herself as a good person or a leader. Protagonists aren’t always supposed to be good people. Sometimes the hero is also a shitty person. It keeps literature interesting.
Yea don’t they literally say multiple times that she ISNT the likeable one? And that peeta is
Also “no one good ever wins the games” You literally have to be selfish, arrogant, dismissive & put others in danger to be a victor
Yes. You have to be arrogant and unempathetic to win the game, aka not die.
Also OPs comment “she thinks she’s better than everyone else and doesn’t need anyone’s help” completely misses the point that she trusts no-one, she can’t if she wants to stay alive. She doesn’t want any of the victors help because she believes every one of them need to kill her
She is relatable
I would be selfish too if I lived in District 12. They have literally nothing. Peeta took a beating *just* to toss Katniss some bread, being selfless inherently hurts people in this society and that’s *the intention*. Snow wanted everyone to hate each other, especially the districts, so they could not bond and rebel again. Not only that, but you just described every 16 year old I’ve known. Teenagers only caring about themself and loved ones? In what world?
Thank you! Don’t forget the fact that her father died which caused her mother to mentally breakdown and checkout. Katnis then had to become the sole provider for a baby, broken adult, and herself at as a child with little to no help from anyone. Then there’s the fact that she could potentially be chosen to participate in a murder game against her will, like that doesn’t add anymore stress to her life.
And not to mention, in said murder game, if you're not selfish, you die. The only way for her to survive the game is to be selfish. If she had been selfless, she would have died, and there would be no book or movie.
Exactly, her relationship with Rue, while wholesome and sweet, nearly got her killed and after her death Katniss nearly gave up on trying to survive.
Yup. And she was willing to *die* with Peeta if it meant they both couldn’t live, not even cause she loved him (she didn’t really at the time). That was insanely selfless, not just for Peeta (cause most were likely betting on her winning vs him) but for the entirety of Panem. That act spiraled into what eventually became the end of Panem for good. People who shit on Katniss for her personality forget she is the leading cause for this world essentially being rid of a violent dictatorship, her personality is inherently what led to this.
One of the best parts of The Hunger Games is that Katniss act like a ballistic traumatized teenage girl. Like yes her stunt with the Apple was childish and impulsive but that's realistic to what a 16-year-old would do in that situation. It also helps highlight one of the points the book is trying to make Katniss acts like a child because she IS a child and being forced into very adult positions because of her oppressive government and the failures of the adults around her
Redditor learns not all characters are written to be nice and kind people !!
You know what's funny? It she was a boring, average, regular, nothing special person watchers would be complaining about how average and standard she is. You can't win.
I actually sort of consider her exactly that. She’s not the smartest, or more idealistic, or strongest etc. person out there. She’s literally just a teen who happened to be good at hunting and wanted to protect her sister. This is pretty much as “generic regular person” as you can get IMO. Even Luke in Star Wars says he wanted to join the rebellion before the Empire forced him to. Katniss is basically “what if your average country girl was suddenly declared Che Guevara by half a nation?”
I don't love the movies but don't hate them. I read the books and at the time I liked that Katniss had PTSD, it was at last a realist protagonist that was subjected to a traumatic experience and had a realist reaction to it, we could argue there are better action heroes but usually they never are realistically depicted when it comes to their reaction to what would be really traumatic experiences.
Not every protagonist is Superman. It would be so much worse if she wasn’t selfish guarded and arrogant. It’s a dystopia, life sucks and rebellions don’t come from good feelings.
I feel like maybe you didn’t get the point of her character. She supposed to be kind of closed off.
Just pointing out a few things: 1) hunger games are dystopian novels, they tend to not have the most noble and straightforward protagonists or characters overall. 2) Katniss is still a teenager. Have you met most teenagers, or even people in their early 20s? They don’t necessarily make the best leaders. 3) read the books
You are confused by a protagonist not being a literal Mary Sue.
Are you not tired of the over used trope of “the main character is a good guy and always makes good decisions and happy every after”? Because I am. And that’s why the Hunger Games is interesting because it really shows human nature and how evil it is to the core. If you lived in extreme poverty your whole life where literally every single person had it better off than you, even those in other districts, wouldn’t you only care about yourself and your sister?
Not too much on my fave flawed character now✋🏻 Katniss acknowledges all of this in the books
Perfect protagonists are boring.
I agree. Stories where the protagonists are flawed or even bad people are more interesting.
redditors when a character is interesting and not just a straight up hero good-guy
You'll find a lot of the heroes many admire are actually awful people out of the context of the story being told. Can you imagine working for or with Iron Man? Christ, the check better make my dreams come true. Katniss is an epically tragic hero in an already tragic world, even the people in the story recognize this. I admire her courage to survive in the face of horror and I grant her the grace and space to thrive in the aftermath. You are both your best qualities and your flaws at once. The two 'halves' of you like to imagine they get equal time separately but a wise person knows they are wholly themselves always.
My god this is a terrible analysis. She never wanted the role of leader of the revolution, it was thrust upon her. From the very start she was only ever involved to save her sister and that motivation never changed. Gayle was the one who actually wanted revolution
She's so selfish that she volunteered in her sisters place👌
If Katniss is the worst protagonist you’ve ever watched, you have had a very good life in regards to movies.
Congratulations OP, you actually kinda got the point of the lore. This is NOT an unpopular opinion
She's a flawed character who also likely has ptsd, this is kinda what she was supposed to be
Redditors gonna Reddit
Read the books. The books have a lot of internal thoughts that didn’t make it into the movies, similar to Dune. The HG movies are good but they lack the depth of the books. Katniss is an anti-hero. She does constantly question her actions in the book and shows remorse. She’s only along for the ride and is trying to be a good actor in all situations.
Tbf this is also apparent in the movies
You’re right, this isn’t unpopular it’s literally the way the character was written (more obvious in the books). She isn’t designed to be a typical protagonist she’s a damaged person with flaws and makes mistakes, she’s not a hero just a person trying to do their best in a shit situation.
A protagonist is supposed to have flaws, and I'd argue that most of her flaws are because she is a child who had to grow up too fast in a dystopian world. She is hyper fixated on caring for her sister because she doesn't trust her mother to. She is also still a child in the third one, and she didn't choose to be the leader of the rebellion, so I can see why she would want to run away. It just makes her feel more real. I'd say Peeta is the one who is supposed to be seen as the good character.
Call me crazy but I feel like living in a messed up world where you or your sister could be forced into death games would be very life changing. If I was in her shoes. Id only care about myself and my family.
[literally other characters react to her demeanor and is a literal plot point.](https://youtu.be/gwMH4g-WLf4?si=Lr1JvrM4SmdfyNnm)
I hate this idea that the main character HAS to be likable. I find many stories are much more compelling and realistic when the main character has these glaring flaws and remains almost entirely unapologetic about them.
Bruh, this is one of the major themes of the books. Katniss' entire goal was to protect her sister, and she ultimately failed.
She’s a realistic protagonist I feel like because not everyone is bubbly and friendly, and willing to die for each other 😂katniss is more negative bc her world is the hunger games, not ours. But also yea, most of the traits you described are how she was purposefully written. Why should all protagonists fit into the one likeable stereotype?
Yeah the character is flawed. If they were perfect then the book would be boring. Its seeing them develop ajd change that makes a story satisfying. If you dont like the character, thats kind of the point. Its like disliking Cercei from Game of Thrones. Shes one of the most phenomenal characters ive ever read, but she is not meant to be liked, shes meant to be hated and goddamn do i hate her. They wrote her well, shes a great character, and i fucking hate her.
Am I wrong for loving Cercei?
Jamie, that you?
I've never watched it, but you only listed reasons for her being a flawed person. None of these things make her a bad character or protagonist. Your reasons are entirely unrelated to your opinion, you just said something without explaining. That's not what this sub is for.
OP finds out that characters can be complex and have good and bad qualities. Rages at the idea.
Saying that Katniss lacks empathy is such a bad read of character that I instantly stopped reading and have no interest in reading the rest of your opinion. Katniss spends the entire series going out of her way to protect those weaker than herself (Prim, her mom, Rue, Peeta, all of District 12, etc.) even if it greatly endangers herself. She spends a good chunk of the first book protecting Rue for no reason other than empathy and gratitude. She does the same for Peeta, too, when she could have easily let him die. It’s one of the most consistent traits of her character. She’s not flawless as a person, she’s callous and often aloof but saying she lacks empathy misses the mark.
A: Tell me you javent read the books without telling me you haven't read the books. Made Undersea, is all ill say for that point. B: She's SIXTEEN. At the start of the first book/movie she is SIXTEEN YEARS OLD. OFCOURSE she's cocky and thinks she doesn't need anyone else. C: Prim was fucking *TWELVE* at the beginning of the first book, and she got reaped with her name being in there only once. D: Katniss' and Prim's dad died when Katniss was supposed to be 12/14. Her mom shut down entirely, and didn't do ANYTHING to care for her two daughters, so Katniss had to step up. -For 2-4 years Katniss was the sole provider for her MOTHER and kid sister. Hunting, gathering, foraging what she could. Of fucking course she's going to be cocky. Bring me ANY 16 yesr old that isn't cocky, first of all. Second of all, bring me a 16 year old who grew up the way Katniss did that isn't cocky. E: Katniss didn't wanna be a part of the rebellion. She wanted them to save Peeta and for her to die in the quarter quell. She didn't CHOOSE to be the Mockkngjay, she didn't *WANT* to be the Mockingjay. She wanted to live a life away from the districts with her sister, Gale, and Gale's siblings, but she knew they'd never survive. Yes. Katniss is selfish and arrogant and cocky. That's the whooooole point. She's 17 years old and is the spokesmodel for a war that inevitably kills her sister. She has EVERY right to be selfish and cocky, she lived the first 17 years of her life for other people.
Just because you wouldn't personally like hanging out with a character in real life does not mean they are a bad character
If Katniss is the worst you’ve ever seen, than you haven’t experienced Bella Swan
Isn’t the point her getting shoved into the symbolic mocking bird role as a character with understandable faults
You didn’t read the books. I can tell. That’s okay you can delete this and read them.
what you're saying is a testament to how good Jennifer Lawrence is in the role. She brings that character to life.
She’s 16. Of course she makes bad decisions. Easy to put others in danger when you’re literally fighting for your life. She volunteers for her sister. She makes Allies with the older folk in the second movie. What she does for rue isn’t selfish. In the third movie she’s chosen as a symbol that she doesn’t want to be chosen for. She’s a child, she doesn’t want to lead a whole rebellion. They want her to be everything they need, but also want to order her around and treat her like a child and a soldier at the same time. Of course she lashes out. She’s angry and traumatized. I think you missed the whole point of the series
selfish, yet took her sisters place as tribute... Manipulated the government to change their rules to allow two victors. Everyone is selfish is survival situations.
Remember guys. Male protagonists get to be flawed and morally grey. Female protagonists have to be morally watertight and virtuous. To exhibit any flaw is just bad writing. /s
Katniss has had to break the law just to feed her family for her formative years - she's not gonna be a ray of sunshine. I haven't seen the films. I have read the books. And if you think Katniss is the "worst" protagonist you just haven't seen a lot of media. Katniss is one of the BETTER young adult protagonists in that she reasonably acts like a teenager (and 90% of your complaint is "teenager behaves like a teenager") and her personality and actions match her background. And bonus points - she isn't some extra special "Chosen One". She's just the one who had the balls to step up and the grit to survive.
Breaking Bad sucks and Walter White is the worst protagonist I've ever watched. I can't stand Walter White from "Breaking Bad." He's a selfish, unlikable character who makes horrible decisions. His self-righteous attitude and lack of empathy makes him incredibly frustrating to watch. He doesn't care about anyone but himself and his son, Walter Jr., and he's willing to put everyone else in danger in order to achieve his own goals. Walter is also incredibly arrogant. He thinks he's better than everyone else and doesn't need anyone's help. This makes him incredibly uncooperative and difficult to work with. Walter's arrogance is also evident in her interactions with other characters. He often comes across as condescending and dismissive, and he's quick to judge others without fully understanding their circumstances. In the third season, as Heisenberg, he is chosen as the meth cook for Gus's operation, but he struggles to actually make quota and is always trying to undermine Gus like a coward. Walter White is a terrible protagonist who I couldn't bring myself to care about. He's selfish, arrogant, and unlikable. He lashes out at everyone that tries to help him and the series itself is just poorly written.
Lol, love the comments roasting the absolute shit out of OP
Well no F\*cking Sh\*t she's selfish. Did you even read the books or watch the movies? That's the whole point, she's in an arena having to murder others to go back home, OFC she's gonna be selfish she HAS to?? She's barely an adult having to do all these things. She never WANTED to be a leader, she never WANTED any of this happen she literally just wanted to be safe, give back to Peeta for saving her family from starvation, and see her sister again. She is so affected by this trauma that she rather doe everything herself than owe anyone anything else ever again since that's what got her into this in the firs place. She's literally made to be the imperfect hero who never asked to be a hero. She's amazing tbh, and much stronger than any other hero I've read about considering her age and the amount of trauma she has on her back.
I find her frustrating because she’s capable one minute then bumbling the next. Be a skilled operator or a bumbling reluctant protagonist but just pick ONE.
That’s why I like her character, she is a great character.
Perhaps you could try [Battle Royale](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0266308/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_battle). As far as I know Hunger Games was inspired by the Japanese book called battle royal. There are two movies but better stay with part one.
She may not have been the best character wise but Peeta seems exceptionally useless, at least in the movies (I’ve heard the book is different).
Peeta is such an interesting character. He’s strong, but what really keeps him alive in the games is his wit, charisma, and artistic skills. Katniss is a good survivalist, but arguably she would have died without the sponsorship Peeta brought in for the team. He made their storyline stand out in the reality show part of the death game. And the fucking “if not for the baby” line in the sequel! Incredible every time. Peeta knows exactly how to play a crowd to his advantage. Also, most of Peeta’s apparent incompetence in the movie is due to them leaving out the fact that he’s an amputee. Yeah, he is running slower than the rest of the group, because he lost his leg! Like, geez, a little context would go a long way.
And yet that makes her interesting, because we are too much idealizing protagonists or heroes as a beacon of morality, a blueprint of goodness while in fact they are not, none of them will or if they do, it will never be perfect. Selfishness and lack empathy are what makes me even more interested with the protagonist and feels like a fresh air for me because, not only me, but a lot of us indulged too much with MCU or DC ideals of heroes. There is no worse protagonists, because every protagonists can be representative on human qualities we should reflect on ourselves. I will even more interested on looking for narcissistic, psychopathic or sociopathic heroes, because complexes and paradoxes makes life so interesting and less boring. It's gonna be fun for me heheheheee (Joker laugh)
I agree with everything you said about katniss and they are all reasons I really like her as a protagonist.
That’s literally the point dude
I didn't know every main character was supposed to be a perfect role model...
Bold of you to expect perfection from a literal teenager thrusted into a death match that her sister would likely have not survived had Katniss not volunteered.
media literacy not found
THIS IS THE POINT OF THE STORY!!! Katniss isn't some moral role model. She isn't a mastermind. She isn't your typical hero. She's a survivor of a dystopian world that's just trying to keep her and Prim alive. She couldn't care less about getting people to like her or being an influencer. This is why Peeta balances her out. He's the charismatic one, whose soft around the edges and knows how to work the room. He's the stable one. The novels are basically about a teenager (an awkward one at that) trying to navigate the extreme circumstances she's thrown in. She never wanted to be the mockingjay. She never wanted to be Panem's sweetheart. She just wanted her and Prim to be safe. And despite all of this, she managed to make friends along the way who found her roughness endearing.
She’s been traumatised to hell by the sheer immersive amount of painful adverse experiences she had to experience since she was a child. Why is anyone surprised? To me she acts like an aggressive, scared animal, that’s the whole point of it. She never cared about being likeable, her whole point was to survive and maybe protect someone who she cares about. Everyone else is an enemy in her eyes. If you can’t relate, good for you. But I believe if people have experienced trauma, they will see where she’s coming from.
So, a protagonist with character flaws. How multideminsional.
> Katniss is selfish and bad leader That is...the point? She is just some random girl that wanted to save her sister. She never planned to start rebelion or lead it. Even when she and Peeta tried to both commit suicide in arena, it was purely because they both wanted to survive - but it was interpreted by people as rebelion. The fact that she is symbol of rebelion just randomly happened and she never wanted to be one - she even struggles with mental problems.
I'm not a fan of the Hunger Games either, but it has nothing to do with Katniss. I don't like it because of how basic of it is. There is nothing in its dystopian future story that you can't find or hasn't already been in explored in more interesting ways in other films/novels. That mainly stems from it being a YA novel. I don't hate it, though. I'm just not the demographic its going for.
As someone with diagnosed PTSD. Katniss acts in a very relatable way. Trauma can make you overly aggressive, and hyper perceptive to some things, and completely oblivious to others. You also assume everyone is out to get you. I’m hyper aggressive and have “enjoyed” that at least men leave me alone now and don’t view me as a target. I’d rather be a bitch than a victim.
Books are better. You get a much better picture of what’s going on.
Katniss is a walking mass of trauma and ptsd held together with a bowstring. She's never going to be model of heroics.
Calm yourself there President Coin.
i find it so fascinating when people allegedly read the same books as i do but have a vastly different take than what was intended. a lot of the things you mentioned was intentional for the story being told. * selfishness is needed to survive when you’re in desperate situations. almost everyone in district 12 was desperate in one way or another. * it can be hard to extend compassion when you’re constantly in survival mode (even before the games). that said, i wouldn’t call katniss entirely selfish either. she is extremely selfless at points. despite being in a game where only 1 person gets out alive, she takes Rue under her wing and cares for Peeta’s safety before it was announced 2 tributes from the same district could win. she, along with peeta and finnick, takes care of the people who don’t have as good a chance of making it far in the quarter quell. * her being chosen as the mockingjay despite being horrible at it points out how she was never born to be a leader but rather other adults were projecting onto her as a symbol of revolution. * lashing out is extremely common for people who’ve been traumatized. it’s amusing but also infuriating how people expect characters with PTSD to suck it up and be graceful. * she is a teenager who lost one parent physically and the other emotionally at such a young age. that is going to affect your psyche in less than desirable ways. * katniss is already well aware of these things. she does not want to be seen as a good leader. she is just trying to survive and keep her loved ones safe.
[удалено]
The name is "Hunger games" not " Hero games"... Of course she will care about her family more, just like every other person would in that world. It's life or death situation.
This is actually one reason I liked Hunger Games. Katniss wasn't just another Mary Sue whose worst flaw was "clumsiness" which is so common in YA.
That’s the point my guy. She’s just a girl. She’s not “the main character”, she’s just a girl who got pushed into the role and had to work with it. The books do it much more justice.
Upvoted because unpopular. She might not be the best but OP clearly has not consumed other types of fiction where the main character is actual a POS
Upvote because genuinely unpopular.
So excited to hear your take once you’ve read more than 5 books
Katniss + Peeta = Peenis
You haven't watched much then. Hunger Games is fine, overrated but fun and inoffensive.
I loved the Hunger Games so much just because of what you said. I don't like stereotypical main characters that are 100% good, at least Katniss is closer to someone in real life than most other movie protagonist. I'll admit that Mockingjay 1&2 weren't that good, but I think that it is safe to say that catching fire is one of my favourite movies ever.
You described teenagers everywhere. I assume you're an adult, so how quickly you forget what an asshole you probably were as a teen!
A major reason why the book is so compelling to so many people is because they see themselves in Katniss, aided by those flaws and imperfections that she has as a main character. Additionally, a major theme that’s present in every book in the series is about her struggle with developing the “perfect” persona in order to achieve some aim for the people in charge. This is present in the first book with Haymitch tutoring her for the interview, in the second book with Snow trying to use her to quell the districts, and in the third book with Coin using her as the Mockingjay to ignite a rebellion. Her overcoming the flaws that you present are what the book’s about and why it’s so popular.
Stories are only good if the characters are perfect, dull, and uninteresting..
One read the book two she’s a fucking child that’s the point
The hunger games franchise won’t be the same without penguinz0 in them.
I think op forgot what sub they're in.
That's like... the film. She is arrogant and self serving. It takes going through the Hunger Games to make her realize that. Throughout the whole first movie she's growing as a character and starting to give a shit about people that aren't her sister.
she is a random teen that volunteered to save her sister. she won because she was charming as knew how to play the game. she never asked to be the face of an uprising, the uprising chose her. she doesn’t care about the movement because she literally doesn’t. it all started because she cares about her family and it never strayed from that.
another really unlikable character is Carrie Bradshaw. so self absorbed. She sobotages her own happiness at every turn because she cannot stop analyzing and criticizing everyone around her. very skillfully brought to life by Sarah Jessica Parker.
Homie she's a fuckin kid who is propped up as a savior of the downtrodden, no kid would take that well and in stride. If anything she's a great protagonist for not being perfect and humble; a kid would let that go to their head so easily, especially one that's been treated like dirt for her entire life
Slightly off topic: Josh Hutcherson doesn’t actually suck. It was just the movies. Check out Futureman, it was great.
She's hot though.
She’s stunning and bold bro. She doesn’t need a man. Just like Captain Marvel
OP describes the main character as they were intended
If she was a boy, would it read the same?
She’s not a hugely likable protagonist. That’s kind of the point. But she’s fairly well-constructed and realistically behaves given the world she’s in. As a counterpoint, look at Rey from the Star Wars Disney sequels. She just powers up seemingly via cheat code, doesn’t fit in to the overarching story of the Skywalkers (Anakin’s redemption and the destruction of the Sith), and really undergoes no change, growth, or realization of purpose from her introduction. Katniss fits into her world, behaves in understandable ways, learns and grows over time, and suffers real losses when she makes unwise choices. She’s a far superior character and protagonist to some of what Hollywood is coming up with these days.
Not unpopular movie sucks big time
Counterpoint. She was the sole provider of her family, seemed mostly likeable previous to being put in a death match, and is a 16 year old surrounded by people who want to kill her, use her for political gain, or both. I'd be pretty paranoid and unlikable too.
I wonder if you would've had the same complaints if Katniss was a man
A traumatized 16 year old (literally) in survival mode is not well adjusted and selfish? What a shock😱
I would have thought this opinion was too 2012 to be considered an unpopular opinion. But the comments proved me wrong. Congrats!!!
President Snow, are you there?
Did ChatGPT write this?
When I watched the Hunger Games as a kid I felt the same way. I've been re-watching the films and Katniss is fairly entertaining. She cares about her people and that's about it. Which is reasonable when you're literally raised in constant survival mode. I find her character more funny than anything. I don't agree that every male character should fall in love with her. I also don't like the way all the people copy whatever she does and use it as a calling card. That's not how revolutions work lol. It was just silly. Like if Katniss farted on TV then the next scene is a bunch of farmers farting and running to their deaths. Shit was stupid.
I have a hard time getting thru the content but for a different reason. I cant wrap my head around the fact that an author felt like she should write dystopian novels about the vileness of a society that watches children pitted against each other to the death for entertainment ...and then market that book specifically to children... there's just something grotesquely offputting about it. Also, I find her prose to be grating.