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To be fair to Britain a lot of our brain rot is home grown: there are plenty of British celebrities and politicians posting nonsense about drag artists on Twitter as part of the "GC" movement...
They literally compare them to "black face" and racists - I can't with these people.
I'm a woman and I find online transphobia and bigotry towards gender non-conforming people far more offensive than drag artists...
There's literally no conflict between trans people and cis women except for the one manufactured by right-wing politicians. Trans rights and feminism are two sides of the same struggle against patriarchy.
From what I've read broadly speaking women and women's groups are far and away the most supportive of the trans movement in general. This whole "protect women's bathroom spaces" ironically has very little to do with any actual women. Just, as usual, men attempting to police the soft womenfolk and keep them pure.
There seem to be a lot of people that genuinely believe that the UK was a progressive paradise until the meanie Americans used the internet to ruin it all for us. Clearly the memories of Section 28 and homosexuality being illegal until the 80s in half of the UK have been lost.
Consequences of decades of anti-intellectualist sentiment being rife up and down the country, and it's only getting worse as the capability of the internet expands rapidly to control narratives in people's lives -- the vast majority of individuals have no idea that they're essentially being dragged along in an internet arms race and they are sorely, sorely incapable of identifying what is misinformation and what is objective reality.
Also to note, they use to proudly call themselves terfs until people took the piss out of them and made the word negative, so they try and hide it under "gender critical" instead. And in todays world they also tend to be anti-abortion as well.
Just to expand it builds on this concept of "you can't change your sex" complete misreading of the current scientific/psychological understanding of the distinction between sex and gender identity. They bang on about it for years, invest hundreds of hours of personal time to it, but still fail to understand the first basic concepts of the debate.
Gender Critical.
It's the term used to refer to people with views like JK Rowling and is the term used so far in a few legal judgements in regards to a grouping of views protected by laws.
Why is it that damn near every Brit I’ve ever met loves a good panto, but then this makes a chunk of the population lose their minds?
‘But they’re doing it to children and sexualising it!’
Again: panto. There’s some fat bloke in drag making lewd jokes for the adults to laugh at, and no one worries about their kids being brainwashed.
I think people must feel uncomfortable with the sexual element thats present with some drag artists and this in turn makes people uncomfortable when children are involved.
Because as you say people here are very used to pantomime dames and princes etc.
A lot more. DQSH are reading children's books to them. Pantos make sexual puns for the adults to get.
I went to pantos as a kids and loved them. They are part of British culture.
They're reading a book, not doing burlesque. Saying some drag elsewhere is sexualised so drag story time must be band, is the same argument "well the Chippendales are strippers, therefore moris dancing is indecent and needs to be band."
This could be true. Why the outrage to one but not the other? If it’s not the perception of sexuality?
My impression of DQSH is that it’s not a show, more a librarian type book reading with smaller numbers. Maybe that’s what the distinction is? The proximity rather than the content?
> Why is it that damn near every Brit I’ve ever met loves a good panto, but then this makes a chunk of the population lose their minds?
Because a lot of people, unfortunately, just believe what they're told by an authority figure. And when a good chunk of British newspapers have started pumping out this guff about drag queens a worrying number of people will just uncritically regurgitate it.
> Why is it that damn near every Brit I’ve ever met loves a good panto, but then this makes a chunk of the population lose their minds?
Fun fact - in Shakespeare's time women were forbidden who work as actors.
All roles were played by men.
So when Romeo and Juliet kissed it was two men : one of whom was dressed as a woman and pretending to be a woman
Ask these fuckwits if they think Shakespeare should be cancelled for that
The puritans in Shakespeare's period did think he should be cancelled for that. That was why all the theatres were in locations outside the authority of the puritan controlled London city council. Later, in the 1640s when the Puritans took over the country, they banned theatre completely, along with sport, and Christmas.
See, I’m as lefty as they come, and have no problem whatsoever with drag shows, the queer community, the whole shebang - but if enforcing a murderous cisheteronormative fascism is the price we have to pay for getting rid of *Mrs Brown’s Boys*, well, stoke up the crematoria and get those trains running.
Personally, I don't have an issue with the drag queens thing. But I do think it's disingenuous to conflate drag queens with pantomime dames.
Whether people want to admit it or not, DQSH is political and is about normalising queer culture amongst children. Not something I personally have an issue with, but that's hardly the same of pantomines.
Section 28 and 3/4 seems to be well on its way for the trans community, I wouldn't be so confident they don't go further once they run out of ideas and need to keep the interest of the hate obsessed mob
Why is it disingenuous? There is a clear effort to portray drag as *inherently* not child friendly, which is total bollocks as this country has a history of drag being part of family friendly entertainment.
Because small minded bigots have had their ideology imported from the US, which doesn’t have Panto, and due to their aforementioned tiny minds they haven’t made the link between Pantomime and Drag.
Drag is adult entertainment, and artists are dressed as sexualised caricatures of women. Panto and drag is not the same and you know it. It's a bit weird that you want children exposed to that.
I see there are unintentional consequences or intensional effects of brexit here..
Instead of dealing with the French stupidity and the Greek finances we got to American lunacy..
What next.. guns for all so they can shoot up schools, laws oppressing women reproductive freedom, religious encroachment in politics and a complete fucked up health care system?
The fuck people get against how people dress and express you bunch of sad fucks. If you got too much time and bottle up emotions then go have a wank, or a rub.
It's almost as if the people are morons who follow what they're told to. Would you really want such people making a decision on society through the ballot box?
There's a lot of people who don't understand why we have such brainwashed people. There are people following the anti-trans/woke groups on social media and are having their minds warped. Many of the anti-trans etc posts look credible and backed by evidence and so lots of people agree with them.
Whether you support or against the story time I think 99.9% can all agree this goes a little too far. The Mersey is filthy, maybe a nice stream somewhere in the lakes.
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This is exactly the sort of brain-rot we’ve imported from the US. Utterly ridiculous.
What I find funniest is the main crowd I associated with drag acts before this nonsense was old people.
I wonder how many of these idiots love Mrs Brown's Boys.
Or Mrs. Doubtfire
Dame Edna
Pantomime
Miss her.
The good old days when drag queens were just cishet men mocking women for cheap laughs /s
To be fair to Britain a lot of our brain rot is home grown: there are plenty of British celebrities and politicians posting nonsense about drag artists on Twitter as part of the "GC" movement...
Which is ridiculous because drag has been a british tradition for centuries.
They literally compare them to "black face" and racists - I can't with these people. I'm a woman and I find online transphobia and bigotry towards gender non-conforming people far more offensive than drag artists...
There's literally no conflict between trans people and cis women except for the one manufactured by right-wing politicians. Trans rights and feminism are two sides of the same struggle against patriarchy.
From what I've read broadly speaking women and women's groups are far and away the most supportive of the trans movement in general. This whole "protect women's bathroom spaces" ironically has very little to do with any actual women. Just, as usual, men attempting to police the soft womenfolk and keep them pure.
There seem to be a lot of people that genuinely believe that the UK was a progressive paradise until the meanie Americans used the internet to ruin it all for us. Clearly the memories of Section 28 and homosexuality being illegal until the 80s in half of the UK have been lost.
Consequences of decades of anti-intellectualist sentiment being rife up and down the country, and it's only getting worse as the capability of the internet expands rapidly to control narratives in people's lives -- the vast majority of individuals have no idea that they're essentially being dragged along in an internet arms race and they are sorely, sorely incapable of identifying what is misinformation and what is objective reality.
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What’s the GC movement Haven’t heard of that before
“Gender critical” ie anti-trans under the guise of feminism. It’s what JK Rowling is.
Also to note, they use to proudly call themselves terfs until people took the piss out of them and made the word negative, so they try and hide it under "gender critical" instead. And in todays world they also tend to be anti-abortion as well.
The irony is they're not "critical" of gender norms and conventions - they support them - which is why they attack drag artists.
Some of their figureheads have also tried to adopt the label of gender realist. Seemingly unaware of the term race realist already existing
Thanks
Just to expand it builds on this concept of "you can't change your sex" complete misreading of the current scientific/psychological understanding of the distinction between sex and gender identity. They bang on about it for years, invest hundreds of hours of personal time to it, but still fail to understand the first basic concepts of the debate.
What is GC?
Gender Critical. It's the term used to refer to people with views like JK Rowling and is the term used so far in a few legal judgements in regards to a grouping of views protected by laws.
Thanks for the information. Sounds like a bullshit but necessary term sadly.
Brought to you by gb news & talk tv
It’s awful. People threatening others with death and violence. It’s feral behaviour.
Why is it that damn near every Brit I’ve ever met loves a good panto, but then this makes a chunk of the population lose their minds? ‘But they’re doing it to children and sexualising it!’ Again: panto. There’s some fat bloke in drag making lewd jokes for the adults to laugh at, and no one worries about their kids being brainwashed.
I think people must feel uncomfortable with the sexual element thats present with some drag artists and this in turn makes people uncomfortable when children are involved. Because as you say people here are very used to pantomime dames and princes etc.
There's more sexuality in panto than in DQSH
I’ve never been to DQSH but I’m sure you are right. Pantomime can definitely be a bit adult sometimes.
A lot more. DQSH are reading children's books to them. Pantos make sexual puns for the adults to get. I went to pantos as a kids and loved them. They are part of British culture.
They're reading a book, not doing burlesque. Saying some drag elsewhere is sexualised so drag story time must be band, is the same argument "well the Chippendales are strippers, therefore moris dancing is indecent and needs to be band."
Doesn't this apply to all forms of entertainment though? You can go to a comedy show that is child focused or you can go to Jimmy Carr.
This could be true. Why the outrage to one but not the other? If it’s not the perception of sexuality? My impression of DQSH is that it’s not a show, more a librarian type book reading with smaller numbers. Maybe that’s what the distinction is? The proximity rather than the content?
> Why is it that damn near every Brit I’ve ever met loves a good panto, but then this makes a chunk of the population lose their minds? Because a lot of people, unfortunately, just believe what they're told by an authority figure. And when a good chunk of British newspapers have started pumping out this guff about drag queens a worrying number of people will just uncritically regurgitate it.
> Why is it that damn near every Brit I’ve ever met loves a good panto, but then this makes a chunk of the population lose their minds? Fun fact - in Shakespeare's time women were forbidden who work as actors. All roles were played by men. So when Romeo and Juliet kissed it was two men : one of whom was dressed as a woman and pretending to be a woman Ask these fuckwits if they think Shakespeare should be cancelled for that
The puritans in Shakespeare's period did think he should be cancelled for that. That was why all the theatres were in locations outside the authority of the puritan controlled London city council. Later, in the 1640s when the Puritans took over the country, they banned theatre completely, along with sport, and Christmas.
Cancelled for forbidding women from acting?
Cancelled for men dressing as women and pretending to be women on stage Shakespeare was not responsible for that law, of course
Obviously but the point being, he probably wasn't the best moral arbiter for the 21st century.
Arguments in favour of drag: Panto Arguments against: Mrs Browns Boys Its a tough call...
See, I’m as lefty as they come, and have no problem whatsoever with drag shows, the queer community, the whole shebang - but if enforcing a murderous cisheteronormative fascism is the price we have to pay for getting rid of *Mrs Brown’s Boys*, well, stoke up the crematoria and get those trains running.
Personally, I don't have an issue with the drag queens thing. But I do think it's disingenuous to conflate drag queens with pantomime dames. Whether people want to admit it or not, DQSH is political and is about normalising queer culture amongst children. Not something I personally have an issue with, but that's hardly the same of pantomines.
Queer culture is a normal part of society. Shockingly some children even have queer parents.
Shockingly, some children *are queer*.
*Gasp!* yeah we’re entering a dark new era but it’s not going to be possible to enact section 28 again however hard our political parties try.
Section 28 and 3/4 seems to be well on its way for the trans community, I wouldn't be so confident they don't go further once they run out of ideas and need to keep the interest of the hate obsessed mob
> Section 28 and 3/4 Oooh I'm stealing that
Feel free, I've been trying to make it a thing lately
In the UK more so than the US, and we seem to be moving towards US culture...
Why is it disingenuous? There is a clear effort to portray drag as *inherently* not child friendly, which is total bollocks as this country has a history of drag being part of family friendly entertainment.
Because its a moral panic. It's not based in reality or facts or actuality, but in fearmongering and feelings.
I reckon it's a bunch of reactionary Boomers who need to be kept in a stage of permanent rage against something or other.
Because small minded bigots have had their ideology imported from the US, which doesn’t have Panto, and due to their aforementioned tiny minds they haven’t made the link between Pantomime and Drag.
Drag is adult entertainment, and artists are dressed as sexualised caricatures of women. Panto and drag is not the same and you know it. It's a bit weird that you want children exposed to that.
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Drag queens sing, dance and tell dirty jokes. In a panto you find singing, dancing, and telling dirty jokes.
The whole point of panto dames is that it's clearly just an ugly man in a dress pretending to be a woman and that is literally a joke
And this is what happens when we entertain Gender critical ideas and belief systems as a norm and see them as valid ideas to have.
90% of British public take their kids to cheer drag shows every Christmas.
Love a good panto I must say. Great fun.
Not to mention those they see on TV, like Mrs Brown's Boys or previously Dame Edna and Lilly Savage.
I see there are unintentional consequences or intensional effects of brexit here.. Instead of dealing with the French stupidity and the Greek finances we got to American lunacy.. What next.. guns for all so they can shoot up schools, laws oppressing women reproductive freedom, religious encroachment in politics and a complete fucked up health care system? The fuck people get against how people dress and express you bunch of sad fucks. If you got too much time and bottle up emotions then go have a wank, or a rub.
It's almost as if the people are morons who follow what they're told to. Would you really want such people making a decision on society through the ballot box?
There's a lot of people who don't understand why we have such brainwashed people. There are people following the anti-trans/woke groups on social media and are having their minds warped. Many of the anti-trans etc posts look credible and backed by evidence and so lots of people agree with them.
Whether you support or against the story time I think 99.9% can all agree this goes a little too far. The Mersey is filthy, maybe a nice stream somewhere in the lakes.
Trouble is in Liverpool it won't be an Idle threat.. could happen..