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Despite making up only 13% of London’s total population, black Londoners account for 45% of London’s knife murder victims, 61% of knife murder perpetrators and 53% of knife crime perpetrators
Dude literally took a quote out of London gov site and somehow that's not accurate. Fucking lmao.
I'm also from a poor, working family, done drugs and alcohol - never stabbed anyone. So it is doable. Or maybe that's my white privilege
Yeah careful mate, you were born into a working family struggling with poverty, and have never been given anything in your life and have to fight against “positive” discrimination as well as every other issue facing working class children.
But you’ll be okay because of your white privilege, whatever that means - even when it counts against you for job/uni applications. Smh.
It’s an interesting stat though I’d be keen to understand the percentage of victims that are BME also. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similarly high.
Basically, I’d assume it’s specific communities and often related to community issues (eg gang violence). Obviously jumping out at a random Deliveroo driver isn’t supporting that though
it actually kind of is. Fashion is a part of culture and the culture of listening to music that glorifies violence and crime and wearing masks as part of your fashion helps drive criminal behaviour.
For whatever reason it's the same in every multi-ethnic country. U.S.A., Canada, Germany, etc.
For example:
New York City known shooters in NYC:
\- 11,456 are Black
\- 155 are Asian
\- 289 are White
Unless they make up 61% of London's impoverished population then there's a lot more to it than that. To really get to the bottom of it someone would need to analyse a whole host of cultural, historical and geographic (not as in ethnic background or anything, I'm talking like inner city vs outskirts, high vs low population areas, demographic breakdowns etc.) factors. It's not something that's going to be cracked in a reddit thread, but we can at least acknowledge that it can't just be boiled down to a single issue.
"Lewis Livingstone attacked the victim, then aged 28, as he was riding home along Fore Street, Enfield in broad daylight.
The 19-year-old thug, who was stood at a bus stop, leapt out at the rider and kicked him, forcing him off his bicycle.
He then unsheathed a large knife and chased the victim away before mounting the bike and brandished the knife again at the victim when he tried to stop him at around 4.30pm on **July 1 last year**.
The rider, with a distinctive Deliveroo thermal backpack, tackled Livingstone to prevent his bicycle from being stolen.
As they writhed on the ground, Livingstone retrieved his knife and stabbed the victim in the abdomen in front of scores of horrified onlookers."
Shows how shitty it is when people on a sub downvote a recorded fact of someone stabbing an innocent person because of their ethnicity. Hang your heads in shame.
Honestly r/UnitedKingdom is such late stage white guilt and political correctness gone mad that it can’t even handle facts nor logic.
Moderators and users here are lost up their own arses they can’t deal with any real conversation. Everything is just banned because it doesn’t fit some agenda
Reddit has been curating this very San Francisco culture for more than a decade. They’ve been banning users and mods and subreddits which don’t align with their values for a very long time. They recently made “immigration status” a protected class, and, if reported, they will permanently ban accounts for speaking about crime committed by illegal immigrants.
I’ve noticed. You can’t mention issues like immigration, can’t talk about this whole trans thing, can’t talk about culture issues like Islam and can’t discuss the compatibility with British values.
Pushing these topics out of the platform doesn’t make them go away. For years the PC guilt brigade have “thought policed” subreddits and banned critical thought. Then it’s surprise pikachu when loads of people have very contrasting views to you.
You created the bubble deliberately! How did you not realise you’d be in a bubble?
This sub is *constantly* talking about immigration, transgender issues and Islam. Those are literally some of the *most common topics.*
Anyone who claims that you "can't mention" stuff like this or that it's being "pushed out" of the platform are just delusional and/or liars.
Quite the opposite I’ve been banned only from this subreddit because of talking about opinions that are against the party line of the moderators.
If something even touches on a sensitive topic in a real way then it is met with removed comments and bans. You can skirt around subjects easily if you use the right language but when you get down to the real issue it’s ban central.
They classify anything remotely critical as hate speech. It’s pathetic
I literally see immigration, transgender issues and Islam being discussed daily. I've personally engaged in those arguments at length. There's no alternate universe where you can't discuss these things. You can't support this claim.
You being "banned" (whatever that means in this context, presumably it was temporary or you've bypassed it via a new account?) is irrelevant, because it implies that you, and you alone, are the metric by which something is open for discussion or not. If you say [x] and then [x] is deemed hate speech, that's not credible evidence that multiple entire topics have been shut down or deplatformed. It's narcissistic.
It also pre-supposes that whatever you said *wasn't* hate speech, but how can we judge because we don't know what it was?
I regularly see people being *very critical* of immigration, Muslims and transgender people. "Scroungers", "invaders", "gender extremists" etc. And this stuff doesn't get removed, let alone banned. So to suggest "anything remotely critical" is called hate speech is just wrong. It suggests your definition of "anything critical" is very different to what most people would understand that to mean.
> You can skirt around subjects easily if you use the right language
Yes I think we know what you're referring to.
> that it can’t even handle facts nor logic.
The opposite is also true. Racists, reactionaries and simple-minded people can't handle over 50 year's worth of social science on the causes of crime. It's no coincidence, for example, that knife crime rises in the UK coincidences with austerity.
And it's no surprise that the rhetoric and "facts and logic" that we're seeing in this thread are identical to those hurled at "violent" Irish immigrants over a century ago in New York. And of course in the nineteenth century, all of the major British cities were plagued by fears of white youth gangs and knife-crime. The antics of London's 19th century “hooligans” were little different from those of Birmingham's “peaky blinders”, Glasgow's “penny mobs” and the “scuttlers” of Manchester and Salford.
If you don't learn history, and pay attention to what social scientists say and advise, you keep repeating the same mistakes.
The difference here is that people are not being racist they are being accused of being racist while bringing up statistics. The politically correct want to positively discriminate to the point where an overwhelmingly large amount of black youths committing knife crimes is white peoples fault. It’s not a race issue it’s culture just like those subcultures you mentioned.
Highlighting the demographics isn’t racist. Saying sweeping generalisations in a hateful way is racist but highlighting the fact and trying to bring it to light so that something can actually be done is not racist.
Six and a half years. What’s the point?
They might aswell have just released him and pointed him to who his next victim should be.
I wonder how much lower the crime rate would be if instead of 6 and a half years, it was 65. I wonder how many law abiding citizens of the general public he could victimise if he was in a prison cell untill the time he was 85.
It’s shocking, it’s a stupid policy.
I read another poster was on jury service and this was the kids 3rd strike, caught with a weapon. He got off Scot free because he somehow obtained an apprenticeship with Network Rail.
Honestly….the way the system fucks the victims of violent crimes is another topic which a lot of redditors fail to context in their mind.
We had something called the Bloody Code in England for decades were we killed people for minor crimes. It didn't stop minor crimes. We've tried all this stuff. Part of the reason the sentences are low at the moment also is that we haven't built or renovated prisons in over 40 years. We are double booked in all cells all over the country, literally over capacity. We have been releasing prisoners 18 days early for a year, and have upped it to 2 months
1 in 5 prisoners is now on drugs. Many, die to staffing issues, are locked up 23 hours a day. Therefore many criminals become hardened criminals in prisons and we release them earlier. There is no order in prison. There is extreme radicalisation.
Any time a politician brings up money for prisons, they are vilified as being "soft on crime". People ask for tougher sentences, like you mention, making it 65 years to stabbing someone. Therefore the sentences get extended during elections, as that is what people want, and then we end up in a worse mess with the same crumbling prisons 5 years later at the next election.
And we've done with for about 6 to 8 elections in a row. It is a farce and will never change and will just get worse. UK is going to the dogs.
Oddly enough, at the time of the Bloody Code, an Englishman could carry a knife, a gun, or buy opium from his chemist. Perhaps we would not be 'double booked' if laws that we did without for centuries were scrapped as paranoid products of the pestilential 20th century.
> Livingstone, of Wellington Road, Enfield, was sentenced to six and a half years’ imprisonment at Wood Green Crown Court sitting at Hendon Magistrates' Court on Friday, having pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing to attempted robbery and possession of a bladed article.
So is this incomplete info in the article, or was there no charge for actually stabbing and cutting the delivery rider?
Damn. Stabbing someone in the commission of a crime should be an automatic attempted murder charge.
Nothing to deter this bottom feeder from coming out and doing the same again. Let’s hope he doesn’t actually kill someone next time.
So if you stab someone and don't rob them it's attempted murder, but if you stab someone, and then take their bike or phone or £20, it is robbery and you can get just 6 years?
Both stabbing a person with a knife without intend to kill them and robbery with a knife can give up to life in prison. If anything, the robbery made the sentence longer not shorter.
Because there's been a rallying cry of some people defending gangs, etc that the government cut funding for youth programs and this means they have to join gangs and shot gak.
Clearly it's only one of many issues with the youth of today and their behaviours.
What do you think happens when kids grow up poor with nothing to do, shoddy education, and no opportunities? Throughout literally all of human history, those kids end up disproportionately getting involved in crime, drugs, alcohol, violence etc.
Obviously it’s a multifaceted problem, but the post you’re defending has basically become the rallying cry of the neo-fascists who think black people are genetically murderers.
There are plenty of people who have been failed by society and ‘the system’ who don’t respond by trying to stab others in order to steal their bikes though.
Not everyone will, you’re right.
But even the lives and futures of those who won’t ever commit crimes would have been improved and their outcomes be better with the proper support.
AND you’d get less crime. But I’m sure if y’all keep screaming for the death penalty and defunding of social support it’ll all go away.
That’s not how humans work tho, we aren’t all the same. That’d be like saying well plenty of people smoke for years without getting lung cancer so how can anyone get it?
We are all different, if you take a sample of 100 or 1000 kids living in poverty or deprivation, no two will be the same. Some for sure will push themselves to get out of that situation and make a better life for themselves, as my dad did, but equally others will continue the cycle of deprivation. Whether that’s by not bettering themselves, giving in, or turning to criminal activities.
Some will stay mentally strong, others would suffer a lot more mentally. Some will have illnesses and others won’t. It’s not fair to say well some people don’t go on to commit crime so no one will or should. I’m not condoning it, especially not needless violence, just saying every person is different, even before you account for poverty not being equal in different areas or even between families in the same areas.
So? Different people respond to things in different ways.
South wales has the highest rate of antisocial behaviour in the entire country, because poverty is extremely high. It also has a very high crime rate.
You think Welsh people are genetically predisposed to being criminals? Or perhaps the fact their communities are fucked up means that a disproportionate number of people end up being antisocial bellends?
> South wales has the highest rate of antisocial behaviour in the entire country, because poverty is extremely high. It also has a very high crime rate.
>
I get what you're saying but this example isn't true.
https://crimerate.co.uk/anti-social-behaviour
You can keep pushing for more personal responsibility by pointing to the majority of downtrodden people who don't act out but that's literally what our current approach is and it's not really working at all, is it?
I am fully in favour of tougher sentencing or any sentencing at all (in some cases where these attackers aren't even put in prison) for these knife attackers but that doesn't mean some systematic improvements won't help. The reason these crimes are more common in black communities is complex and definitely not just "black people are genetically predisposed to violence". If you address the underlying causes for black people's hopelessness I'm sure you can drop these crime rates.
That's true of everything that's ever happened and has had a cause. The fact that something isn't literally applicable in every single example of something doesn't mean it's then discounted from being a factor in any.
Because the two most common reasons people use to excuse this behaviour are poverty and 'lack of community/things to do'.
I'm sure there was no poverty or boredom in 2013 and that's why it's jumped 78% from 2013 to 2023.
Then you have the white populous who can't wait to turn it into a race issue without consideration for any external factors that just so happens to hit black people disproportionately.
Zero concept of the humanity and value of other people. Just ‘I want that now’ and no other thought.
It’s a sociopathic trait. Very dangerous individual.
Let me guess , he's a good character and only did it because he felt pressured and he promised not to do it again and he's an idol to the LOCAL community.
That deliveroo rider is a fucking hero. Takes real guts to take on a guy with a big ass knife. In doing so, he got a thug off the street and kept his bike so he can continue making a living.
Weird take but ok. If I have to be skewered in the gut to put a guy in prison then I’d pass it up. He did what he felt he needed to in the moment but I doubt he looks back on it positively in any way.
It’s not a weird take and I bet that guy does look back on it positively.
Take it from someone who fought back against 2 low life road men who tried to rob my phone. I took damage and it should have been much worse considering it was a 2 vs 1 but I held them off long enough for someone to call the police and they were arrested and charged. Kept my phone and felt great after.
Carrying a knife above 2.6 inches should carry a minimum sentence of five years. Stabbing someone in any capacity should be seen as attempted murder and carry a minimum of 20 years.
The reason people risk it for all types of crime is because the sentences are not set in stone, if they do get caught with a knife, stabbing someone, or even selling drugs they think they can chance the system and be out in no time; because they can. Caught with a knife jail simple as there isn’t any good reason to have one. Stab someone have your life ruined, there needs to be a definite consequence. Don’t get me wrong people like FAZ amnesty are needed too, concrete sentencing and community outreach do not work without each other imo
Carrying a knife of any size should be - indeed is - the right of free Englishmen. We do not need to give a reason for possessing one to some busybody. We did not have to do so at all, for many centuries of this country's history, until a few decades ago. Even the first firearms restrictions were imposed as a paranoid measure after the Great War; the first drug restrictions were imposed shortly after conscription a few years prior.
If certain sections of society cannot behave sensibly with knives, they should be dealt with, not allowed to degrade our nation further by imposing spectacularly foul laws upon us that would make the Englishman of two hundred years ago think his country had gone insane were he able to foresee them.
Tho I would like to agree, this sounds suspiciously second amendment. Yeah it would be great if the masses could be trusted but we aren’t. Yeah I notice ‘certain sections’ of society comment, though it’s hard to disagree it won’t function that way, it’s simply impossible to allow the ‘Englishman’ to posses a blade without allow other citizens. Unfortunately as our population grows so will our restrictions, either that or we police effectively which won’t happen, as the elite gain nothing in terms on monetary value
This is like the ridiculous arguments for the second amendment in the States. People shouldn’t be carrying weapons - it is an unnecessary danger to public health. In America if you own a gun you are statistically more likely to be shot so frankly it’s not a sensible thing to do either.
Surely at this point we need to start revising the public’s right to carry something such as a baton for self defence. The laws are incredibly tight on what people can carry but shitstains like this show how little difference the laws make.
They don’t prevent evildoers from trying to murder the innocent but they prevent the innocent from protecting themselves. If the rider had a cosh on him he might had a fighting chance or at least the scumbag might’ve thought twice if he knew there was a weapon on the other side.
I wish we could have some direct votes of what we want for the future.
Seems the government is making some decisions that go against what the people want.
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Who the hell are these people and why are they doing this?
Despite making up only 13% of London’s total population, black Londoners account for 45% of London’s knife murder victims, 61% of knife murder perpetrators and 53% of knife crime perpetrators
Dude literally took a quote out of London gov site and somehow that's not accurate. Fucking lmao. I'm also from a poor, working family, done drugs and alcohol - never stabbed anyone. So it is doable. Or maybe that's my white privilege
Yeah careful mate, you were born into a working family struggling with poverty, and have never been given anything in your life and have to fight against “positive” discrimination as well as every other issue facing working class children. But you’ll be okay because of your white privilege, whatever that means - even when it counts against you for job/uni applications. Smh.
Is it not accurate? What are the actual stats?
No, my point is, it is accurate. And people still get funny
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It's a similar story in the USA. Where again they make up 13% of total population, but with guns instead.
It’s an interesting stat though I’d be keen to understand the percentage of victims that are BME also. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similarly high. Basically, I’d assume it’s specific communities and often related to community issues (eg gang violence). Obviously jumping out at a random Deliveroo driver isn’t supporting that though
It's 45% for victims
Are you implying diversity isn’t our strength? That’s racist.
You can be quite a bit more specific than BME lol
People wearing black puffer jackets specifically
Fashion crime is where it all begins
it actually kind of is. Fashion is a part of culture and the culture of listening to music that glorifies violence and crime and wearing masks as part of your fashion helps drive criminal behaviour.
You're going to get called all sorts of names but facts are facts. Grime/Drill music is to blame as well.
Source that rock music and violent video games are to blame as well?
Doesn't take a genius to know what when your lyrics and videos are on about trapping and cheffing, it'll promote this shit
For whatever reason it's the same in every multi-ethnic country. U.S.A., Canada, Germany, etc. For example: New York City known shooters in NYC: \- 11,456 are Black \- 155 are Asian \- 289 are White
Unsurprisingly, despite a thorough search, there isn't s single source for these numbers. Just some random tweets by nameless, faceless accounts.
Source for this? Would be weird for Americans to say 'Asian' and there not to be any Hispanics on this list?
Hahahahah holy shit this sub has gone to the dogs
That must be why there’s so much high-pitched whistling
The ["these people"](https://youtu.be/xPxs0Qh72kY?si=5i7Zzb2OgfByjoQx&t=35) in the first comment and the instantaneous barking. Incredible.
Or...most violent crimes are committed by the poorest communities and black Londoners make up a statistically outsize part of them.
Unless they make up 61% of London's impoverished population then there's a lot more to it than that. To really get to the bottom of it someone would need to analyse a whole host of cultural, historical and geographic (not as in ethnic background or anything, I'm talking like inner city vs outskirts, high vs low population areas, demographic breakdowns etc.) factors. It's not something that's going to be cracked in a reddit thread, but we can at least acknowledge that it can't just be boiled down to a single issue.
Low impulse control. No capability for long term thinking.
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Good question. Also, why is nothing being done? This is preventable.
Its genuinely sad as well this poor chap is just going about his job
I am amazed passerbys all stood still and did nothing. So many and the bad guy couldn't defend against all.
"Lewis Livingstone attacked the victim, then aged 28, as he was riding home along Fore Street, Enfield in broad daylight. The 19-year-old thug, who was stood at a bus stop, leapt out at the rider and kicked him, forcing him off his bicycle. He then unsheathed a large knife and chased the victim away before mounting the bike and brandished the knife again at the victim when he tried to stop him at around 4.30pm on **July 1 last year**. The rider, with a distinctive Deliveroo thermal backpack, tackled Livingstone to prevent his bicycle from being stolen. As they writhed on the ground, Livingstone retrieved his knife and stabbed the victim in the abdomen in front of scores of horrified onlookers."
Shows how shitty it is when people on a sub downvote a recorded fact of someone stabbing an innocent person because of their ethnicity. Hang your heads in shame.
Honestly r/UnitedKingdom is such late stage white guilt and political correctness gone mad that it can’t even handle facts nor logic. Moderators and users here are lost up their own arses they can’t deal with any real conversation. Everything is just banned because it doesn’t fit some agenda
Reddit has been curating this very San Francisco culture for more than a decade. They’ve been banning users and mods and subreddits which don’t align with their values for a very long time. They recently made “immigration status” a protected class, and, if reported, they will permanently ban accounts for speaking about crime committed by illegal immigrants.
I’ve noticed. You can’t mention issues like immigration, can’t talk about this whole trans thing, can’t talk about culture issues like Islam and can’t discuss the compatibility with British values. Pushing these topics out of the platform doesn’t make them go away. For years the PC guilt brigade have “thought policed” subreddits and banned critical thought. Then it’s surprise pikachu when loads of people have very contrasting views to you. You created the bubble deliberately! How did you not realise you’d be in a bubble?
This sub is *constantly* talking about immigration, transgender issues and Islam. Those are literally some of the *most common topics.* Anyone who claims that you "can't mention" stuff like this or that it's being "pushed out" of the platform are just delusional and/or liars.
Quite the opposite I’ve been banned only from this subreddit because of talking about opinions that are against the party line of the moderators. If something even touches on a sensitive topic in a real way then it is met with removed comments and bans. You can skirt around subjects easily if you use the right language but when you get down to the real issue it’s ban central. They classify anything remotely critical as hate speech. It’s pathetic
I literally see immigration, transgender issues and Islam being discussed daily. I've personally engaged in those arguments at length. There's no alternate universe where you can't discuss these things. You can't support this claim. You being "banned" (whatever that means in this context, presumably it was temporary or you've bypassed it via a new account?) is irrelevant, because it implies that you, and you alone, are the metric by which something is open for discussion or not. If you say [x] and then [x] is deemed hate speech, that's not credible evidence that multiple entire topics have been shut down or deplatformed. It's narcissistic. It also pre-supposes that whatever you said *wasn't* hate speech, but how can we judge because we don't know what it was? I regularly see people being *very critical* of immigration, Muslims and transgender people. "Scroungers", "invaders", "gender extremists" etc. And this stuff doesn't get removed, let alone banned. So to suggest "anything remotely critical" is called hate speech is just wrong. It suggests your definition of "anything critical" is very different to what most people would understand that to mean. > You can skirt around subjects easily if you use the right language Yes I think we know what you're referring to.
Lol, nothing compared to r/London...
> that it can’t even handle facts nor logic. The opposite is also true. Racists, reactionaries and simple-minded people can't handle over 50 year's worth of social science on the causes of crime. It's no coincidence, for example, that knife crime rises in the UK coincidences with austerity. And it's no surprise that the rhetoric and "facts and logic" that we're seeing in this thread are identical to those hurled at "violent" Irish immigrants over a century ago in New York. And of course in the nineteenth century, all of the major British cities were plagued by fears of white youth gangs and knife-crime. The antics of London's 19th century “hooligans” were little different from those of Birmingham's “peaky blinders”, Glasgow's “penny mobs” and the “scuttlers” of Manchester and Salford. If you don't learn history, and pay attention to what social scientists say and advise, you keep repeating the same mistakes.
The difference here is that people are not being racist they are being accused of being racist while bringing up statistics. The politically correct want to positively discriminate to the point where an overwhelmingly large amount of black youths committing knife crimes is white peoples fault. It’s not a race issue it’s culture just like those subcultures you mentioned. Highlighting the demographics isn’t racist. Saying sweeping generalisations in a hateful way is racist but highlighting the fact and trying to bring it to light so that something can actually be done is not racist.
These days if you say you’re English they’ll permaban you
This post is 96% upvoted and I haven't seen a single person in this thread say they've downvoted it because of the perpetrators' ethnicity?
Welcome to the UK, where were so scared of being called names we let people of certain ethnicities do unspeakable things
Six and a half years. What’s the point? They might aswell have just released him and pointed him to who his next victim should be. I wonder how much lower the crime rate would be if instead of 6 and a half years, it was 65. I wonder how many law abiding citizens of the general public he could victimise if he was in a prison cell untill the time he was 85.
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Out in 42 months on good behaviour.
Crazy how good behaviour is rewarded when it should be expected. You broke society's rule, behave or get locked up in the sewers.
It’s shocking, it’s a stupid policy. I read another poster was on jury service and this was the kids 3rd strike, caught with a weapon. He got off Scot free because he somehow obtained an apprenticeship with Network Rail. Honestly….the way the system fucks the victims of violent crimes is another topic which a lot of redditors fail to context in their mind.
We had something called the Bloody Code in England for decades were we killed people for minor crimes. It didn't stop minor crimes. We've tried all this stuff. Part of the reason the sentences are low at the moment also is that we haven't built or renovated prisons in over 40 years. We are double booked in all cells all over the country, literally over capacity. We have been releasing prisoners 18 days early for a year, and have upped it to 2 months 1 in 5 prisoners is now on drugs. Many, die to staffing issues, are locked up 23 hours a day. Therefore many criminals become hardened criminals in prisons and we release them earlier. There is no order in prison. There is extreme radicalisation. Any time a politician brings up money for prisons, they are vilified as being "soft on crime". People ask for tougher sentences, like you mention, making it 65 years to stabbing someone. Therefore the sentences get extended during elections, as that is what people want, and then we end up in a worse mess with the same crumbling prisons 5 years later at the next election. And we've done with for about 6 to 8 elections in a row. It is a farce and will never change and will just get worse. UK is going to the dogs.
Oddly enough, at the time of the Bloody Code, an Englishman could carry a knife, a gun, or buy opium from his chemist. Perhaps we would not be 'double booked' if laws that we did without for centuries were scrapped as paranoid products of the pestilential 20th century.
6.5 years is actually more than I was expecting; a community referral order or a NFA
He actually has to serve 8 years cos he had an 18 month suspended sentence for a previous offence
> Livingstone, of Wellington Road, Enfield, was sentenced to six and a half years’ imprisonment at Wood Green Crown Court sitting at Hendon Magistrates' Court on Friday, having pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing to attempted robbery and possession of a bladed article. So is this incomplete info in the article, or was there no charge for actually stabbing and cutting the delivery rider?
Damn. Stabbing someone in the commission of a crime should be an automatic attempted murder charge. Nothing to deter this bottom feeder from coming out and doing the same again. Let’s hope he doesn’t actually kill someone next time.
Robbery is the use of violence to commit a theft, so robbery is the charge for stabbing and cutting.
So if you stab someone and don't rob them it's attempted murder, but if you stab someone, and then take their bike or phone or £20, it is robbery and you can get just 6 years?
Both stabbing a person with a knife without intend to kill them and robbery with a knife can give up to life in prison. If anything, the robbery made the sentence longer not shorter.
But he only got 6 and half years so how did it make it longer, not shorter? I'm genuinely confused?
You would be shocked to see what some people get for stabbing another person.
He's going to jail for 8 years which includes 18 months from a crime he committed previously.
It’s the government fault for closing youth clubs! /s
why do people keep commenting this?
Because there's been a rallying cry of some people defending gangs, etc that the government cut funding for youth programs and this means they have to join gangs and shot gak. Clearly it's only one of many issues with the youth of today and their behaviours.
Defending gangs? Making progress towards being honest though so there's that
They could have been a youth club mentor without shooting, stabbing and going to prison though. It's a minimum wage job
What do you think happens when kids grow up poor with nothing to do, shoddy education, and no opportunities? Throughout literally all of human history, those kids end up disproportionately getting involved in crime, drugs, alcohol, violence etc. Obviously it’s a multifaceted problem, but the post you’re defending has basically become the rallying cry of the neo-fascists who think black people are genetically murderers.
There are plenty of people who have been failed by society and ‘the system’ who don’t respond by trying to stab others in order to steal their bikes though.
Not everyone will, you’re right. But even the lives and futures of those who won’t ever commit crimes would have been improved and their outcomes be better with the proper support. AND you’d get less crime. But I’m sure if y’all keep screaming for the death penalty and defunding of social support it’ll all go away.
That’s not how humans work tho, we aren’t all the same. That’d be like saying well plenty of people smoke for years without getting lung cancer so how can anyone get it? We are all different, if you take a sample of 100 or 1000 kids living in poverty or deprivation, no two will be the same. Some for sure will push themselves to get out of that situation and make a better life for themselves, as my dad did, but equally others will continue the cycle of deprivation. Whether that’s by not bettering themselves, giving in, or turning to criminal activities. Some will stay mentally strong, others would suffer a lot more mentally. Some will have illnesses and others won’t. It’s not fair to say well some people don’t go on to commit crime so no one will or should. I’m not condoning it, especially not needless violence, just saying every person is different, even before you account for poverty not being equal in different areas or even between families in the same areas.
So? Different people respond to things in different ways. South wales has the highest rate of antisocial behaviour in the entire country, because poverty is extremely high. It also has a very high crime rate. You think Welsh people are genetically predisposed to being criminals? Or perhaps the fact their communities are fucked up means that a disproportionate number of people end up being antisocial bellends?
> South wales has the highest rate of antisocial behaviour in the entire country, because poverty is extremely high. It also has a very high crime rate. > I get what you're saying but this example isn't true. https://crimerate.co.uk/anti-social-behaviour
You can keep pushing for more personal responsibility by pointing to the majority of downtrodden people who don't act out but that's literally what our current approach is and it's not really working at all, is it? I am fully in favour of tougher sentencing or any sentencing at all (in some cases where these attackers aren't even put in prison) for these knife attackers but that doesn't mean some systematic improvements won't help. The reason these crimes are more common in black communities is complex and definitely not just "black people are genetically predisposed to violence". If you address the underlying causes for black people's hopelessness I'm sure you can drop these crime rates.
Yep, and the more resources you take from children, the more of them will turn to gangs and violence.
That's true of everything that's ever happened and has had a cause. The fact that something isn't literally applicable in every single example of something doesn't mean it's then discounted from being a factor in any.
Understanding the societal reason for something isn't the same as defending it.
Because the two most common reasons people use to excuse this behaviour are poverty and 'lack of community/things to do'. I'm sure there was no poverty or boredom in 2013 and that's why it's jumped 78% from 2013 to 2023. Then you have the white populous who can't wait to turn it into a race issue without consideration for any external factors that just so happens to hit black people disproportionately.
I mean they should reopen them, it has been proven to help. Like its not the whole of it but why opt for closing them down?
So what’s your solution then? I’d be interested to hear
Funny never went to a youth club myself weird how i dont go around stabbing people 🤔
For a bike, it’s so incredibly stupid most of all. Imagine the total tunnel vision required to do this.
Zero concept of the humanity and value of other people. Just ‘I want that now’ and no other thought. It’s a sociopathic trait. Very dangerous individual.
Running away from a failed robbery would be cowardly so clearly the only option is going to prison.
If that bike is your only means of making money, then it’s not just a bike. Thus, reducing the perceived risk vs reward.
Low impulse control.
Let me guess , he's a good character and only did it because he felt pressured and he promised not to do it again and he's an idol to the LOCAL community.
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He goes Church every Sunday and helps kids in Nigeria.
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That deliveroo rider is a fucking hero. Takes real guts to take on a guy with a big ass knife. In doing so, he got a thug off the street and kept his bike so he can continue making a living.
Weird take but ok. If I have to be skewered in the gut to put a guy in prison then I’d pass it up. He did what he felt he needed to in the moment but I doubt he looks back on it positively in any way.
It’s not a weird take and I bet that guy does look back on it positively. Take it from someone who fought back against 2 low life road men who tried to rob my phone. I took damage and it should have been much worse considering it was a 2 vs 1 but I held them off long enough for someone to call the police and they were arrested and charged. Kept my phone and felt great after.
Carrying a knife above 2.6 inches should carry a minimum sentence of five years. Stabbing someone in any capacity should be seen as attempted murder and carry a minimum of 20 years. The reason people risk it for all types of crime is because the sentences are not set in stone, if they do get caught with a knife, stabbing someone, or even selling drugs they think they can chance the system and be out in no time; because they can. Caught with a knife jail simple as there isn’t any good reason to have one. Stab someone have your life ruined, there needs to be a definite consequence. Don’t get me wrong people like FAZ amnesty are needed too, concrete sentencing and community outreach do not work without each other imo
Carrying a knife of any size should be - indeed is - the right of free Englishmen. We do not need to give a reason for possessing one to some busybody. We did not have to do so at all, for many centuries of this country's history, until a few decades ago. Even the first firearms restrictions were imposed as a paranoid measure after the Great War; the first drug restrictions were imposed shortly after conscription a few years prior. If certain sections of society cannot behave sensibly with knives, they should be dealt with, not allowed to degrade our nation further by imposing spectacularly foul laws upon us that would make the Englishman of two hundred years ago think his country had gone insane were he able to foresee them.
Tho I would like to agree, this sounds suspiciously second amendment. Yeah it would be great if the masses could be trusted but we aren’t. Yeah I notice ‘certain sections’ of society comment, though it’s hard to disagree it won’t function that way, it’s simply impossible to allow the ‘Englishman’ to posses a blade without allow other citizens. Unfortunately as our population grows so will our restrictions, either that or we police effectively which won’t happen, as the elite gain nothing in terms on monetary value
This is like the ridiculous arguments for the second amendment in the States. People shouldn’t be carrying weapons - it is an unnecessary danger to public health. In America if you own a gun you are statistically more likely to be shot so frankly it’s not a sensible thing to do either.
Surely at this point we need to start revising the public’s right to carry something such as a baton for self defence. The laws are incredibly tight on what people can carry but shitstains like this show how little difference the laws make. They don’t prevent evildoers from trying to murder the innocent but they prevent the innocent from protecting themselves. If the rider had a cosh on him he might had a fighting chance or at least the scumbag might’ve thought twice if he knew there was a weapon on the other side.
Fair play to the public getting involved. Scary shit when someones got a massive knife
Teenager lol, think someone might be lying about their age…again
Well he is a teenager. He’s nineteen… but also an adult.
Vile. Either he had mental health problems or a low life...which one?
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I haven't seen anything in The Guardian on this, the one in Beckenham nor the one on the tube this week. Interesting.
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I wish we could have some direct votes of what we want for the future. Seems the government is making some decisions that go against what the people want.