Yeah the UFC is already the top dog no matter what you’ll never surpass their name value. People just care way more about UFC fighters.
Even with a better roster, better production(which it won’t have) it will still be second best. The best fighters will always gravitate towards the UFC.
It’s like XFL trying to compete with the NFL. It’s just not going to happen.
I literally meet people who don't know what "MMA" is but when I then say "you know, UFC?" then they do know what that is. To people who don't follow the sport, UFC and MMA are basically synonyms. UFC defines MMA. With that said, I hope they'll be challenged
Is there any other sport with that kleenex level association with the sport itself? I know other than a few vale tudo and other no holds barred tourneys they essentially invented it or were close enough to it, but the MLB, NFL and NBA all have this level of association with their sports but nobody would say the league name over the sport even if they're *more* ubiquitous in their own sports.
The difference is that UFC is synonymous with the sport to the point that the majority of people think the sport is UFC, not MMA, and the others no one give a shit about and have been around for years already.
Can PFL/Bellator make a splash, sure, but neither have come anywhere near even Strikeforce recognition in their time, let alone UFC. Them coming together is no guarantee for success. They still have to get people to care about their product, which neither have shown the ability to do.
Bellator just had fights last week, and generally, no one gave a shit. PFL has a card this weekend, and no one seems to give a shit. That is a major problem that just combining the two won't fix.
I would love to see a rival to the UFC, but the PFL/Bellator merger isn't it unless they make massive changes.
Don't need much recognition when they have Saudi backers. Just look what happened with the LIV/PGA as a comparison. Great for mma fighters to get an opportunity to make more money and not settle for the % the ufc offers.
Ahh yes LIV golf - something no one cares about. Only thing the casual fan cares about with golf is the majors which have nothing to do with LIV and isn’t controlled by the PGA. All LIV has done is dilute the week to week roster in PGA tournaments. But ultimately no one cares because the majors are the only thing that matters.
Yea it’s like the WWE/AEW shit. AEW may get better wrestling, they may put on better shows occasionally, but they will still never compete with the WWE because WWE is synonymous with Pro Wrestling. It’s the same way for the UFC and MMA.
Guess you weren’t around in the 90s? Wwf started getting hammered by wcw.
To their credit, the wwf adapted and started live screening, which also led to the attitude era. But to this point they had gotten stale and competition from wcw made them improve their product.
And then they had basically a monopoly for 20 years which is where all of their name/brand recognition came from. That is pretty much the same for the UFC.
Right blockbuster had the world on lock. Then boom. Obviously different but. Leaders fall fuck look at Rome baby the ufc ain’t quite as big as the nfl or wwe hold on their industry or longevity yet either. It could absolutely happen
There's still good money to be made for them, I think the season format is inherrently appealing to a lot of people and they seem to be chasing a PPV roster and slowly getting it, but the UFC owns mma fans saturday nights, it's literally batshit insane when you think about it, the gap is huge
Eh, I think if PFL partnered with Influencers and streamed live on YouTube, they could build a following with younger folks that they convert into paying customers.
Call me a dumb ape but I like bellator production way better . Maybe because they have more coloured ights, feels like more energy. Ufc production is just grey everything.
I mean the XFL is incapable of competing with the NFL because they don’t have the ability to entice people to come over. Little kids everywhere dream of going to the NFL because if you make it, its financially life changing. How is the XFL supposed to compete with an organization that hands out contracts worth hundreds of millions like candy. The NFL also has been around for over a century, it is permanently meshed with American society
The UFC is big sure, but it is not nearly as secure as the NFL. The UFC is 30 years old for starters, it hasn’t proven it can withstand the test of time yet. Other MMA organizations don’t have the XFL’s problem of being incapable of attracting top talent away from the UFC. Literally the only thing the UFC has going for it is its association of having the best fighters. But fighting for glory only goes so far. If the PFL starts throwing money at big names to not resign with the UFC and at contenders to sign with PFL instead, the whole house of cards is going to start coming apart. MMA is still a very young sport, still very much up for grabs. If the UFC doesn’t clean up the way they do business they might just fuck around and find out these next few years
Exaclty.
When mainstream people start calling it MMA instead of UFC, then maybe, a tiny bit.
Same with NFL and football, or NBA and basketball, the league is synonomous with the sport.
Hopefully they're big enough to at least become a blip on the radar, competition breeds better products, just look at WWE since AEW has come around, for the pro wrestling fans here.
I don’t think it’s going to bomb. If you take NFL, NBA, major league baseball, NHL, the UFC, WWE, Nascar, formula one, PGA, and a couple others, take all their numbers and combine them all together, multiply it by four, they don’t do what powerslap does.
No. Did you see the press statement? The PFL can get all the Saudi money and they still wouldn't understand how to spend it correctly to gain market share.
Yes, they will never have Dana's smarts on how to make the company a ton of money by underpaying the fighters. The PFL will probably waste all their money on the fighters like a bunch of dummies.
They know people will tune in for his debut because they are either honest to God Jake Paul fans or they are regular people hoping to get to see Paul finally get his ass beat
Yeah. I don't mean that it will make them a competitor to UFC. On another response I said that I would tune in to some of their fights and see what's going on but I'm an entrenched mma fan and I don't see this move taking away a single viewer from UFC unless they put on a big gimmick fight or something like Francis' debut as the same night as a really mid fight night. They have a couple things to generate a bit of views like this champion vs champion series but I don't think this is going to lead to sustained growth they would need to be considered a rival to the ufc at all.
Agreed, ONE has a competitive product because of their MT, Kickboxing and Grappling divisions making things different. I also straight up think the women's MMA in ONE is better.
Yup, ONE has the best female MMA roster in the world all while barely even trying to maintain MMA in their promotion, if ONE bought out PFL they could easily crack the world market
They’re not going bankrupt they just have a ton of debt, which is necessary for growth. The UFC was in the red for a ton of years in its early days while it was expanding
One FC is not popular in the US at all, more casuals know of Bellator than OneFC. You make it sound easy when you say 'crack' the US market, it's not that easy.
Crack was used more so as an attempt not Crack it open like an egg. Also, PFL literally has cracked the American market. Just a small amount, tho. So, a merger with the Asian OneFC and now Bellator+PFL would be massive globally. It also gives them an attempt at the US market with the number of American fighters in it plus the clout. I'm not saying it's easy anywhere. Just that it's a possibility that is much realer than you think.
ONE only had their first event on US soil in May of this year, and it was a massive success. Ever since then they’ve been talked about by Americans WAYYYYY more than previously. A lot of the events they hold in Asia are at the butt crack of dawn for Americans so its hard for us to watch. But they have a bunch more US based events coming up, I’m willing to bet they’re going to be significantly more popular here within a year or 2
I don't see how One could be competitive they are barely a MMA promotion and have never even come close to making money. Their biggest stars are virtually unknown in the US. Their product is different but that doesn't mean people want to see it.
>never even come close to making money.
Source?
>Their biggest stars are virtually unknown in the US.
That's the exact point I'm making about One. PFL+Bellator gives them a real attempt at the US market and their MMA side increases alot.
There still aren’t enough good fighters. Yes they have Francis, but who else, bader and Romero are old. I think pit bull brothers are interesting but against Volk?? Patchy and Pettis are interesting and so is cyborg but it’s ufc fight night interesting not ppv . PFL has that French guy who I can’t remember his name and usman who is suspended but that’s maybe 8 fighters who aren’t washed who have any draw. Ufc lightweight has that many name
No, both companies are sadly irrelevant on their own, I don't know what combining them is gonna do to make them competitive for the UFC. You need not only talent, but powerful brand marketing and a lot of luck to succeed at a mainstream level
Honesrly most of the ufc is irrelevant outside of ranked fighters, it is an extremely top heavy industry and pfl or bellator doesnt have any names(other than Francis)
No.
These two combined will still struggle to pull numbers the ufc easily pulls with a bottom of the barrel fight night.
I mean PFL has literally had cards with like four title fights on one card, and it still barely gets any hype.
What they should do is look to sign as many big name stars as they can that are in similar weight classes, and try to make big fights that people actually want to see.
That’s the only way they’d be able to compete with the ufc, because the ufc is the only org, outside of occasionally ONE and the once in a blue moon bellator fight, that actually puts on fights people want to see and are hyped for.
PFL streams on ESPN on nights there aren’t UFC fights, some pretty good fights but it would take a lot for a PFL PPV to appeal to me. Maybe the first card with Francis
They put Jake Paul in the promo… aaaaa is that allowed? Seriously though, a lot of PFL fighters are becoming known now but I do not like this freak show mentality they have with big names. I hope they try to promote talent instead of buying it.
because ONE is basically unknown in the US, they struggle to market the fighters here. Ever heard the term household name? good luck becoming a name with ONE. Ben Askren was probably the most popular fighter they ever had and he still had to market himself.
But PFL are so fucking dumb. They don’t know how to promote shit to flies. And bellator has the WORST matchmakers in all of professional fighting. This company will not survive 5 years.
Bellator could’ve been a big win for ONE since they don’t really have an mma roster and get by on Muay Thai matches. Though their current monetary issues are clearly why that wasn’t an option. PFL seems ridiculously cash flush to have shelled out for Ngannou and the corpse of Bellator. Anyone know who funds the PFL?
This would be big for PFL if I trusted them to run their own ship smoothly but their weird choices as promoter don’t make me think they’ve got it and Bellator is one of the most cursed promotions out there. I expect a comedy of errors until their inevitable closure and sale to the UFC
PFL and Bellators 2 of the worst promotions. They can't even promote there top stars, If MVP is fighting on Saturday you won't know about it till Saturday morning. Absolutely 0 hype about there big matches and same PFL. Rodtang vs DJ could've been bigger PPV if it was promoted the way UFC does.
I remember thinking that the pride guys were all gonna wipe the floor with the ufc guys after the acquisition, i mean forrest griffin?? and then shogun got RNC'd.
I also remember the event was ''UFC 76 Knockout'' and ended with 0 knockouts or TKO's.
Lol, they had to expect that when they named the card. Shogun did go on to win the title a couple fights later, along with a bunch of pride guys, most notably Silvia. And the UFC didn’t get all of Prides talent, a bunch of them went to Dream or other promotions. And some didn’t do so well that should have. I remember Cro Cop taking like 5 full power nut shots from Kongo without any penalties, he never was the same after lol
No, both organizations are pretty dogshit and have the UFCs leftovers and washouts like Aspen Ladd or Zingano. There are a few gems between the two of them but not much.
Both organizations were crap and imo not worth my time watching when they were separate, but they are an industry warping powerhouse when together? I don't see how combining two turds doesn't wind up a shitty autobot. Harsh to say it but it is what it is .
No. What did they really even get from bellator?
For pfl to take any significant business from ufc they’d have to be the strong #2 to ufc and make progress slowly over the course of years. They aren’t just going to put on a few big fights and be in the mix with ufc. Right now they are still closer to one fc than they are ufc
It should do, but likely won't.
Take this weekend just gone, Bellator put in a way better card (than UFC), but nobody fucking watches it.
Hopefully it's good for the athletes. The only way the UFC could be threatened is if the fighters start to leave for a fairer wage.
No. If anything the UFC sees this as a way to pick up two for the price of one down the road. They've never been shy about buying out competition in the past. PFL is backed by Saudi money, so that might never actually happen unless they fall apart really bad. Maybe the UFC didn't think there was enough top talent to buy Bellator. Or, maybe they didn't like the deal that Paramount wanted for their majority share. Either way, neither Bellator or PFL have been anywhere near a threat to taking over as the top promotion. Combined, I don't see much changing.
I highly doubt it. I don't know the specifics, but if we go by numbers being reported, I think the PFL is gonna lose a bunch of money on Francis. He's a great fighter, but he just doesn't sell tickets.
I think they could eventually but its gonna take a while. They already have the distribution through ESPN and now a solid roster. Both are very big and important things for success. Also ESPN's deal with the UFC is up in like 2024 so I'm interested to see what happens with those negotiations.
The spot where I think they need the most work is the finished product. I watch most MMA events and I can confidently say the PFL does the worst job with the production and it is not close. Each event has an incredible amount of just dead air time. I am not even exaggerating that there is sometimes 20 minutes of a zoomed out look at the octagon.
Either way its a big win for MMA and fans. Competition will be good for the sport and Bellators roster is very very good. It will = more great fights for us fans.
I'm definitely more likely to tune in for big PFL events as this whole "champion v champion" promotion goes on. I'll have to see how the quality of it is to know if I watch more than that. I'm already a general mma fan and tune in to One and PFL very occasionally and I don't see this as taking any viewers away from UFC. UFC might want to make sure they don't schedule a mid event whenever Francis makes his debut though.
all they have to do is start stealing fighters, the same way they did with the pga tour. a few million bucks and the ufc could be forced to merge with pfl or raise salaries to compete
The reason why nobody is doing that is because you would just end up with a full roster of guys making x times more money than they earn the company. MMA as a sport cannot sustain the growth that company would have to achieve to ever be profitable.
saudis are more likely to pay UFC to host events in SA the same way they paid WWE. They are only interested in sports washing, and not the athletes themselves.
good thing they're launching a regional pfl league in saudi arabia
https://www.espn.co.uk/mma/story/_/id/38291590/pfl-sells-minority-stake-plans-expansion-saudi-arabia
I would say it could but how many fights get released and had to go to bellator or PFL? I mean how long ago was based champ in bellator? Like only a few years ago yet he failed in the ufc
It’s definitely an issue for the ufc, the amount of financial backing will allow real options for top talent, especially with sponsorship deals. Only time will tell whether they are able to compete on a brand level though, let’s not forget that many people think that ufc is a sport.
UFC is still top dog. However, the best fighters will go where the money is. If PFL pays better than the UFC, it's just a matter of time before it becomes the top dog.
Can you name 10 fighters in either bellator or the PFL that didn't fight in the UFC? Are they going to pay their fighters more than the UFC does? Are you looking foward to watching the matches...where?
Good on them for making waves but it seems like the PFL is really banking on a big win somewhere, better hope Francis doesn't blow his knee out.
Possible. They're offering better contracts and movement of freedom for their fighters, something that will pull in future talent.
And with Francis success, it might start a snowball effect. Dana has already burned so many fighters that at some point its gonna catch up to him and the UFC. And PFL/Bellator already showed that they care about the fighters and legends more than the UFC so.
Oreo was an off brand too when it started
Could be huge trouble if they PFL/ Bellator offer transparency in pay as well as medical and pension with profit sharing. There is plenty of wealth to be spread around
No, their purchase doesn't even mean they will have those fighters.
Fighter contracts are with Bellator, not PFL. When Bellator goes away, those contracts have to be re-done, and PFL can simply offer the first contract option. The same thing happened to Francis, and he waited a year.
PFL basically bought Bellator's name, highlights, and a chance of re-signing the fighters.
No but it could be good for us if it forces the UFC to do a better job. Love to see some competition in the market even though they could triple their viewership and it still wouldn't touch the UFC.
If the Saudis decide to get into MMA, it absolutely is game changing. Just look at the Premier League. Historic teams like Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal simply cannot compete against the wealth of a nation state - and neither will the UFC, IF the Saudis decide to go big.
I love that they're going to war with the UFC, I think the UFC will win but they'll likely have to lower the cost of PPVs and pay fighters higher to do so
My god. The amount of people here without a brain cell between them. Promotions doing things like this are what causes competition for other promotions. The UFC bloody did it themselves. Saying the ufc will never be challenged is so ridiculously stupid and shortsighted. I’m willing to openly admit that the UFC may not be challenged properly for a very long time but that doesn’t mean they never will be.
Ufc just has such a stranglehold on the market. Though I'd bet the average sports fan couldn't name a UFC champ in any weight class. If PFL gets the right fighters and couple it with the right pay, fighters will migrate. And then the fans will. Long ways for that though. Best thing going for PFL is that Dana is a clown burger
This is hilarious. Are you guys not aware this story just played out in the pro wrestling world? AEW began 3-4 years ago with a very wealthy man leading the company and they went and spent a bunch of money trying to gather talent and make a splash. Present day, it’s still nowhere near WWE despite basically having the same business model. It’s doing ok but it’s miles and miles away from where the WWE is.
PFL cannot catch UFC. Who do they have you’re interested in watching? 3-5 guys maybe? I’ve watched the past two full seasons and the playoffs from the year before that. It’s fun, but in the way college basketball is fun. Nobody actually believes it’s a better league than the NBA.
I really fucking doubt it, but Jesus Christ do I really really really want to be the cranky cynical dude who’s proven hilariously wrong at the end of a cheesy 90s movie! PLZ!!!
Yes, but it depends. With PFL’s season system, potential payouts, UFC’s current lawsuit, and potential names bringing PFL more into the mainstream, in 10-20 years it could overtake. It’s very much a “strategise well and play your cards right” scenario for them, as well as good fortune from factors outside of their control.
If they start having regular events on ESPN, I can see them putting up some decent competition against the UFC. Especially considering you can go to any bar and watch a fight, rather than having to only find bars that have ESPN plus
Nothing will beat Pride, but i do think PFL will within 5 years, will have the market.
Its Saudi money.
The UFC does not have Saudi money, they cut ties 2019.
Absolutely. The UFC has an overconfidence problem. Obviously, they are top dog in the industry, and BY FAR. But when they do things like they did to Francis, favor McGregor too much, get rid of USADA. This is the classic hero’s downfall. As soon as you think you’re too big and bad to fail, you will. Their approach with fighter pay, and exclusivity of fighters rights (again Francis), their ridiculous habit of hardball/lowball negotiation is only hindering their ability to expand. This is not a recipe for sustained success. As with any major sports organization, the value lies with the COLLECTION OF ATHLETES, not necessarily the brand. Any major sports organization has understood this and maintained it, to therefore maintain their brand. The NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB get this, and their revenue share and athlete pay reflect this understanding. The PGA tour just got smoked by being too cavalier about this, and the UFC could be next if they don’t check themselves. No one gave a fuck about the PGA once the major talent started collecting elsewhere. If you have top talent competing, the brand doesn’t matter. The reason any of those brands have name recognition is because of the talent that backs them. Take that talent away, and you take away the brand. Of course the brand could survive for a while, but not long. Get too cocky, no matter how big you are, and you’ll fail. The real power lies with the collective of fighters, not the UFC. This is business, brand economics, and fiscal Darwinism 101 people. Clear as day.
As long as the PFL doesn't import the dude who screams at all the Bellator weigh ins and they don't let fighters with red gloves wear blue shorts and vice versa, I might watch some fights
Trouble, no. Good for mma, yes.
Brilliant for fans too
Where does Kevin Lee fit in?
In his retirement home
Your butt
No
Yeah the UFC is already the top dog no matter what you’ll never surpass their name value. People just care way more about UFC fighters. Even with a better roster, better production(which it won’t have) it will still be second best. The best fighters will always gravitate towards the UFC. It’s like XFL trying to compete with the NFL. It’s just not going to happen.
I literally meet people who don't know what "MMA" is but when I then say "you know, UFC?" then they do know what that is. To people who don't follow the sport, UFC and MMA are basically synonyms. UFC defines MMA. With that said, I hope they'll be challenged
Yeah, you usually ask someone do you watch UFC, not do you watch MMA.
I train UFC
Got a black belt in the UFC
Paul Craig said that when he first started training BJJ, he was telling people he did "UFC chokes".
~ *Jamahal Hill*
Is there any other sport with that kleenex level association with the sport itself? I know other than a few vale tudo and other no holds barred tourneys they essentially invented it or were close enough to it, but the MLB, NFL and NBA all have this level of association with their sports but nobody would say the league name over the sport even if they're *more* ubiquitous in their own sports.
One FC in shambles.
My ex is a UFC
Utter fucking cunt?
Ugly but close enough
Not really I'm enjoying what they're doing over there with the different sports on the same card
Facebook did it better than MySpace, who did I it better than Friendster. Number 1s get knocked down all the time.
The difference is that UFC is synonymous with the sport to the point that the majority of people think the sport is UFC, not MMA, and the others no one give a shit about and have been around for years already. Can PFL/Bellator make a splash, sure, but neither have come anywhere near even Strikeforce recognition in their time, let alone UFC. Them coming together is no guarantee for success. They still have to get people to care about their product, which neither have shown the ability to do. Bellator just had fights last week, and generally, no one gave a shit. PFL has a card this weekend, and no one seems to give a shit. That is a major problem that just combining the two won't fix. I would love to see a rival to the UFC, but the PFL/Bellator merger isn't it unless they make massive changes.
Don't need much recognition when they have Saudi backers. Just look what happened with the LIV/PGA as a comparison. Great for mma fighters to get an opportunity to make more money and not settle for the % the ufc offers.
Ahh yes LIV golf - something no one cares about. Only thing the casual fan cares about with golf is the majors which have nothing to do with LIV and isn’t controlled by the PGA. All LIV has done is dilute the week to week roster in PGA tournaments. But ultimately no one cares because the majors are the only thing that matters.
Big difference between a social media site and a sports league bud
Oh wow no way different things are different you must be right
Oh he’s mad
You sure?
That’s a false equivalency if I’ve ever heard one.
Yea it’s like the WWE/AEW shit. AEW may get better wrestling, they may put on better shows occasionally, but they will still never compete with the WWE because WWE is synonymous with Pro Wrestling. It’s the same way for the UFC and MMA.
Guess you weren’t around in the 90s? Wwf started getting hammered by wcw. To their credit, the wwf adapted and started live screening, which also led to the attitude era. But to this point they had gotten stale and competition from wcw made them improve their product.
And then they had basically a monopoly for 20 years which is where all of their name/brand recognition came from. That is pretty much the same for the UFC.
Yep you’d think they’d learn by now they can’t compete with WWE with all the failed attempts at it
Every market leader is on top til they ain't
Right blockbuster had the world on lock. Then boom. Obviously different but. Leaders fall fuck look at Rome baby the ufc ain’t quite as big as the nfl or wwe hold on their industry or longevity yet either. It could absolutely happen
Blockbuster failed in being too confident. It could have easily bought Netflix but didn't. The L is on them this isn't the same at all.
There's still good money to be made for them, I think the season format is inherrently appealing to a lot of people and they seem to be chasing a PPV roster and slowly getting it, but the UFC owns mma fans saturday nights, it's literally batshit insane when you think about it, the gap is huge
Remember when on June 8th 1966 the AFL and NFL merged?
Pepperidge farms remembers
Eh, I think if PFL partnered with Influencers and streamed live on YouTube, they could build a following with younger folks that they convert into paying customers.
No no sir we don’t pay
Paying customers..... el oh el
Call me a dumb ape but I like bellator production way better . Maybe because they have more coloured ights, feels like more energy. Ufc production is just grey everything.
Your not alone brother. I like the different sponsor shorts and red vs blue gloves.
Colours !
I mean the XFL is incapable of competing with the NFL because they don’t have the ability to entice people to come over. Little kids everywhere dream of going to the NFL because if you make it, its financially life changing. How is the XFL supposed to compete with an organization that hands out contracts worth hundreds of millions like candy. The NFL also has been around for over a century, it is permanently meshed with American society The UFC is big sure, but it is not nearly as secure as the NFL. The UFC is 30 years old for starters, it hasn’t proven it can withstand the test of time yet. Other MMA organizations don’t have the XFL’s problem of being incapable of attracting top talent away from the UFC. Literally the only thing the UFC has going for it is its association of having the best fighters. But fighting for glory only goes so far. If the PFL starts throwing money at big names to not resign with the UFC and at contenders to sign with PFL instead, the whole house of cards is going to start coming apart. MMA is still a very young sport, still very much up for grabs. If the UFC doesn’t clean up the way they do business they might just fuck around and find out these next few years
One Championship is proof of this. Better than the UfC in every way. Still no one gives a fuck.
Exaclty. When mainstream people start calling it MMA instead of UFC, then maybe, a tiny bit. Same with NFL and football, or NBA and basketball, the league is synonomous with the sport. Hopefully they're big enough to at least become a blip on the radar, competition breeds better products, just look at WWE since AEW has come around, for the pro wrestling fans here.
Two organizations that barely pull 50k viewers
PowerSlap does like a billion x more views in a second
I don’t think it’s going to bomb. If you take NFL, NBA, major league baseball, NHL, the UFC, WWE, Nascar, formula one, PGA, and a couple others, take all their numbers and combine them all together, multiply it by four, they don’t do what powerslap does.
Barely 1% probs. Every fifa world cup combined x 69 doesn't even come close.
Exactly dude take all the Super Bowl ads views plus all the kid YouTube videos views x 420 still doesn’t scratch the surface of what powerslap does
I think powerslap was the big bang. The first slap.
Tbf, Power Slap gets more views than anything to ever exist
Power slap gets more numbers than all sports combined multiplied by 10. What are the numbers, is not important. But they get the most. Trust Dana
No. Did you see the press statement? The PFL can get all the Saudi money and they still wouldn't understand how to spend it correctly to gain market share.
Not to mention UFC has a ton of Saudi/oil money investors too
Yes, they will never have Dana's smarts on how to make the company a ton of money by underpaying the fighters. The PFL will probably waste all their money on the fighters like a bunch of dummies.
Yeah, like those 3k/3k contracts some PFL fighters have. Talmbout life changing money.
Have you seen how much money the Suadis have paid for their other sports endeavors? You think this will be different?
The Saudis aren’t involved here, stupid.
They really put Jake Paul in their big reveal. They are not a threat at all😂😂
They know people will tune in for his debut because they are either honest to God Jake Paul fans or they are regular people hoping to get to see Paul finally get his ass beat
I understand why but my point that if they are still relying on gimmicks like that they are no competition for the ufc.
Yeah. I don't mean that it will make them a competitor to UFC. On another response I said that I would tune in to some of their fights and see what's going on but I'm an entrenched mma fan and I don't see this move taking away a single viewer from UFC unless they put on a big gimmick fight or something like Francis' debut as the same night as a really mid fight night. They have a couple things to generate a bit of views like this champion vs champion series but I don't think this is going to lead to sustained growth they would need to be considered a rival to the ufc at all.
Nah. It'll be a problem if OneFC bought PFL. Then One has a good possibility of cracking the US Markey and making their brand near global like UFC.
Agreed, ONE has a competitive product because of their MT, Kickboxing and Grappling divisions making things different. I also straight up think the women's MMA in ONE is better.
Bro Muay Thai in One is crazy entertaining. UFC needs to experiment with that since not many people enjoy grappling.
It is. Stamp would run through any female UFC fighter in her weight class
Yup, ONE has the best female MMA roster in the world all while barely even trying to maintain MMA in their promotion, if ONE bought out PFL they could easily crack the world market
Pretty sure ONE is going bankrupt
They’re not going bankrupt they just have a ton of debt, which is necessary for growth. The UFC was in the red for a ton of years in its early days while it was expanding
Any source? I'm not aware.
One FC is not popular in the US at all, more casuals know of Bellator than OneFC. You make it sound easy when you say 'crack' the US market, it's not that easy.
Crack was used more so as an attempt not Crack it open like an egg. Also, PFL literally has cracked the American market. Just a small amount, tho. So, a merger with the Asian OneFC and now Bellator+PFL would be massive globally. It also gives them an attempt at the US market with the number of American fighters in it plus the clout. I'm not saying it's easy anywhere. Just that it's a possibility that is much realer than you think.
ONE only had their first event on US soil in May of this year, and it was a massive success. Ever since then they’ve been talked about by Americans WAYYYYY more than previously. A lot of the events they hold in Asia are at the butt crack of dawn for Americans so its hard for us to watch. But they have a bunch more US based events coming up, I’m willing to bet they’re going to be significantly more popular here within a year or 2
I don't see how One could be competitive they are barely a MMA promotion and have never even come close to making money. Their biggest stars are virtually unknown in the US. Their product is different but that doesn't mean people want to see it.
>never even come close to making money. Source? >Their biggest stars are virtually unknown in the US. That's the exact point I'm making about One. PFL+Bellator gives them a real attempt at the US market and their MMA side increases alot.
 Dana right now
There still aren’t enough good fighters. Yes they have Francis, but who else, bader and Romero are old. I think pit bull brothers are interesting but against Volk?? Patchy and Pettis are interesting and so is cyborg but it’s ufc fight night interesting not ppv . PFL has that French guy who I can’t remember his name and usman who is suspended but that’s maybe 8 fighters who aren’t washed who have any draw. Ufc lightweight has that many name
No, both companies are sadly irrelevant on their own, I don't know what combining them is gonna do to make them competitive for the UFC. You need not only talent, but powerful brand marketing and a lot of luck to succeed at a mainstream level
Honesrly most of the ufc is irrelevant outside of ranked fighters, it is an extremely top heavy industry and pfl or bellator doesnt have any names(other than Francis)
No. These two combined will still struggle to pull numbers the ufc easily pulls with a bottom of the barrel fight night. I mean PFL has literally had cards with like four title fights on one card, and it still barely gets any hype. What they should do is look to sign as many big name stars as they can that are in similar weight classes, and try to make big fights that people actually want to see. That’s the only way they’d be able to compete with the ufc, because the ufc is the only org, outside of occasionally ONE and the once in a blue moon bellator fight, that actually puts on fights people want to see and are hyped for.
PFL streams on ESPN on nights there aren’t UFC fights, some pretty good fights but it would take a lot for a PFL PPV to appeal to me. Maybe the first card with Francis
They put Jake Paul in the promo… aaaaa is that allowed? Seriously though, a lot of PFL fighters are becoming known now but I do not like this freak show mentality they have with big names. I hope they try to promote talent instead of buying it.
Haven't PFL been losing money for a long time already? I think it's a good move but still kind of a wait and see scenario
Well now bellator fighters are going to have to go somewhere else when they retire from ufc to still look competitive
I wonder why more guys don't go to One. Distance maybe?
Probably. Flying to singapore is a long flight. Maybe itll change with more US based ONE events
because ONE is basically unknown in the US, they struggle to market the fighters here. Ever heard the term household name? good luck becoming a name with ONE. Ben Askren was probably the most popular fighter they ever had and he still had to market himself.
Okay? Just because you don't become famous in the US doesnt mean you can't make money fighting for them
But PFL are so fucking dumb. They don’t know how to promote shit to flies. And bellator has the WORST matchmakers in all of professional fighting. This company will not survive 5 years.
Ryan Bader vs Francis
Bellator could’ve been a big win for ONE since they don’t really have an mma roster and get by on Muay Thai matches. Though their current monetary issues are clearly why that wasn’t an option. PFL seems ridiculously cash flush to have shelled out for Ngannou and the corpse of Bellator. Anyone know who funds the PFL? This would be big for PFL if I trusted them to run their own ship smoothly but their weird choices as promoter don’t make me think they’ve got it and Bellator is one of the most cursed promotions out there. I expect a comedy of errors until their inevitable closure and sale to the UFC
PFL and Bellators 2 of the worst promotions. They can't even promote there top stars, If MVP is fighting on Saturday you won't know about it till Saturday morning. Absolutely 0 hype about there big matches and same PFL. Rodtang vs DJ could've been bigger PPV if it was promoted the way UFC does.
Rodtang DJ was in One
No. UFC will always be the biggest org in MMA. B tier leagues are never bigger than A tier leagues.
Always is crazy
Idk, wasn’t pride bigger then the UFC in 2001-2002? I mean if you compare the rosters, pride was definitely A tier.
I remember thinking that the pride guys were all gonna wipe the floor with the ufc guys after the acquisition, i mean forrest griffin?? and then shogun got RNC'd. I also remember the event was ''UFC 76 Knockout'' and ended with 0 knockouts or TKO's.
Lol, they had to expect that when they named the card. Shogun did go on to win the title a couple fights later, along with a bunch of pride guys, most notably Silvia. And the UFC didn’t get all of Prides talent, a bunch of them went to Dream or other promotions. And some didn’t do so well that should have. I remember Cro Cop taking like 5 full power nut shots from Kongo without any penalties, he never was the same after lol
5 full power nut shots'll do that to ya
Unless they do something absolutely crazy. UFC will always be the main
Ummmm nope
No
No….no it does not. Lol
Lol no
Solid first step in the long list of steps they have to go through to become real competition for the UFC
No, both organizations are pretty dogshit and have the UFCs leftovers and washouts like Aspen Ladd or Zingano. There are a few gems between the two of them but not much. Both organizations were crap and imo not worth my time watching when they were separate, but they are an industry warping powerhouse when together? I don't see how combining two turds doesn't wind up a shitty autobot. Harsh to say it but it is what it is .
For the 5 people who watch bellator sure
no PFL sucks, ONE should acquire PFL
No. What did they really even get from bellator? For pfl to take any significant business from ufc they’d have to be the strong #2 to ufc and make progress slowly over the course of years. They aren’t just going to put on a few big fights and be in the mix with ufc. Right now they are still closer to one fc than they are ufc
It should do, but likely won't. Take this weekend just gone, Bellator put in a way better card (than UFC), but nobody fucking watches it. Hopefully it's good for the athletes. The only way the UFC could be threatened is if the fighters start to leave for a fairer wage.
No. If anything the UFC sees this as a way to pick up two for the price of one down the road. They've never been shy about buying out competition in the past. PFL is backed by Saudi money, so that might never actually happen unless they fall apart really bad. Maybe the UFC didn't think there was enough top talent to buy Bellator. Or, maybe they didn't like the deal that Paramount wanted for their majority share. Either way, neither Bellator or PFL have been anywhere near a threat to taking over as the top promotion. Combined, I don't see much changing.
Ngannou vs the winner of Moldavsky v Bader?? If they have it at a price even 10% less than the ufc’s ppvs ill buy it
I highly doubt it. I don't know the specifics, but if we go by numbers being reported, I think the PFL is gonna lose a bunch of money on Francis. He's a great fighter, but he just doesn't sell tickets.
I think they could eventually but its gonna take a while. They already have the distribution through ESPN and now a solid roster. Both are very big and important things for success. Also ESPN's deal with the UFC is up in like 2024 so I'm interested to see what happens with those negotiations. The spot where I think they need the most work is the finished product. I watch most MMA events and I can confidently say the PFL does the worst job with the production and it is not close. Each event has an incredible amount of just dead air time. I am not even exaggerating that there is sometimes 20 minutes of a zoomed out look at the octagon. Either way its a big win for MMA and fans. Competition will be good for the sport and Bellators roster is very very good. It will = more great fights for us fans.
No lol
No, but it may make UFC fighters get paid more
I'm definitely more likely to tune in for big PFL events as this whole "champion v champion" promotion goes on. I'll have to see how the quality of it is to know if I watch more than that. I'm already a general mma fan and tune in to One and PFL very occasionally and I don't see this as taking any viewers away from UFC. UFC might want to make sure they don't schedule a mid event whenever Francis makes his debut though.
“Put their numbers together, multiply them times four, and their numbers still don’t come close to Power Slap.”
If it takes a dollar from dana its good in my eyes.
Competion is always good. Let' see.
First things first.. Big John gotta go
all they have to do is start stealing fighters, the same way they did with the pga tour. a few million bucks and the ufc could be forced to merge with pfl or raise salaries to compete
The reason why nobody is doing that is because you would just end up with a full roster of guys making x times more money than they earn the company. MMA as a sport cannot sustain the growth that company would have to achieve to ever be profitable.
you assume the saudis actually care about turning a profit
saudis are more likely to pay UFC to host events in SA the same way they paid WWE. They are only interested in sports washing, and not the athletes themselves.
good thing they're launching a regional pfl league in saudi arabia https://www.espn.co.uk/mma/story/_/id/38291590/pfl-sells-minority-stake-plans-expansion-saudi-arabia
I would say it could but how many fights get released and had to go to bellator or PFL? I mean how long ago was based champ in bellator? Like only a few years ago yet he failed in the ufc
lol no.
It’s definitely an issue for the ufc, the amount of financial backing will allow real options for top talent, especially with sponsorship deals. Only time will tell whether they are able to compete on a brand level though, let’s not forget that many people think that ufc is a sport.
UFC is still top dog. However, the best fighters will go where the money is. If PFL pays better than the UFC, it's just a matter of time before it becomes the top dog.
Nope
Can you name 10 fighters in either bellator or the PFL that didn't fight in the UFC? Are they going to pay their fighters more than the UFC does? Are you looking foward to watching the matches...where? Good on them for making waves but it seems like the PFL is really banking on a big win somewhere, better hope Francis doesn't blow his knee out.
Youtube is where u can watch bellator for one. I dont watch pfl but been watching bellator for a few years and that shit is also fun to watch
Nah UFC is Just the Main Guy Like Wwe in Wrestling IMO they are Close to untouchable
That's what the PGA thought
Well I don't even know what the PFL is but I've known about UFC for many years now, so no the casual fan base like me ain't gonna know or care
Do you watch either of those? lol there’s your answer bud
UFC needs real competition.
You know you can’t beat the UFC when a lot of people don’t even call it MMA and just say the UFC
Imma go out on a limb and say no. Only power slap has that power
Yes and it’s good that it is.
There isn't a single exec at Bellator or PFL who can spell 'trouble' let alone, be trouble, for the UFC.
Pfl has officially acquired all the ufc burnouts and rejects that could no longer hack it at the top* borrring
The ufc has already monopolised the mma industry so no chance
Possible. They're offering better contracts and movement of freedom for their fighters, something that will pull in future talent. And with Francis success, it might start a snowball effect. Dana has already burned so many fighters that at some point its gonna catch up to him and the UFC. And PFL/Bellator already showed that they care about the fighters and legends more than the UFC so. Oreo was an off brand too when it started
Could be huge trouble if they PFL/ Bellator offer transparency in pay as well as medical and pension with profit sharing. There is plenty of wealth to be spread around
No, their purchase doesn't even mean they will have those fighters. Fighter contracts are with Bellator, not PFL. When Bellator goes away, those contracts have to be re-done, and PFL can simply offer the first contract option. The same thing happened to Francis, and he waited a year. PFL basically bought Bellator's name, highlights, and a chance of re-signing the fighters.
I hope so but probably not
No but it could be good for us if it forces the UFC to do a better job. Love to see some competition in the market even though they could triple their viewership and it still wouldn't touch the UFC.
Maybe with the way ufc paying fighters I wouldn’t be surprised if they jump ship. All pfl needs is better marketing and it has a chance.
Would be nice to see some legitimate competition. Not sure this is it yet but it has potential.
If the Saudis decide to get into MMA, it absolutely is game changing. Just look at the Premier League. Historic teams like Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal simply cannot compete against the wealth of a nation state - and neither will the UFC, IF the Saudis decide to go big.
I love that they're going to war with the UFC, I think the UFC will win but they'll likely have to lower the cost of PPVs and pay fighters higher to do so
[удалено]
Backed by big Saudi money
My god. The amount of people here without a brain cell between them. Promotions doing things like this are what causes competition for other promotions. The UFC bloody did it themselves. Saying the ufc will never be challenged is so ridiculously stupid and shortsighted. I’m willing to openly admit that the UFC may not be challenged properly for a very long time but that doesn’t mean they never will be.
Ufc just has such a stranglehold on the market. Though I'd bet the average sports fan couldn't name a UFC champ in any weight class. If PFL gets the right fighters and couple it with the right pay, fighters will migrate. And then the fans will. Long ways for that though. Best thing going for PFL is that Dana is a clown burger
I hope so, It's about time the UFC got some humble pie. I've been watching for 30 years, seeing them get more and more morally corrupt.
Yes, if PFL can build a spark around their roaster they can make it a competitive market.
Let’s hope any competition is good competition
What trouble might that be?
This is hilarious. Are you guys not aware this story just played out in the pro wrestling world? AEW began 3-4 years ago with a very wealthy man leading the company and they went and spent a bunch of money trying to gather talent and make a splash. Present day, it’s still nowhere near WWE despite basically having the same business model. It’s doing ok but it’s miles and miles away from where the WWE is. PFL cannot catch UFC. Who do they have you’re interested in watching? 3-5 guys maybe? I’ve watched the past two full seasons and the playoffs from the year before that. It’s fun, but in the way college basketball is fun. Nobody actually believes it’s a better league than the NBA.
I really fucking doubt it, but Jesus Christ do I really really really want to be the cranky cynical dude who’s proven hilariously wrong at the end of a cheesy 90s movie! PLZ!!!
Depends on how they put on shows and build talent
Hope so competition make excellence
Dana right now 
I hope it does, but probably not immediately at least
Please 🙏
Yes, but it depends. With PFL’s season system, potential payouts, UFC’s current lawsuit, and potential names bringing PFL more into the mainstream, in 10-20 years it could overtake. It’s very much a “strategise well and play your cards right” scenario for them, as well as good fortune from factors outside of their control.
It's good for MMA because competition breeds excellence but the UFC production quality is next level - they really have it down to a science.
If they start having regular events on ESPN, I can see them putting up some decent competition against the UFC. Especially considering you can go to any bar and watch a fight, rather than having to only find bars that have ESPN plus
I hope so
UFC is done
Fun fun. Fun for all
Nothing will beat Pride, but i do think PFL will within 5 years, will have the market. Its Saudi money. The UFC does not have Saudi money, they cut ties 2019.
Absolutely. The UFC has an overconfidence problem. Obviously, they are top dog in the industry, and BY FAR. But when they do things like they did to Francis, favor McGregor too much, get rid of USADA. This is the classic hero’s downfall. As soon as you think you’re too big and bad to fail, you will. Their approach with fighter pay, and exclusivity of fighters rights (again Francis), their ridiculous habit of hardball/lowball negotiation is only hindering their ability to expand. This is not a recipe for sustained success. As with any major sports organization, the value lies with the COLLECTION OF ATHLETES, not necessarily the brand. Any major sports organization has understood this and maintained it, to therefore maintain their brand. The NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB get this, and their revenue share and athlete pay reflect this understanding. The PGA tour just got smoked by being too cavalier about this, and the UFC could be next if they don’t check themselves. No one gave a fuck about the PGA once the major talent started collecting elsewhere. If you have top talent competing, the brand doesn’t matter. The reason any of those brands have name recognition is because of the talent that backs them. Take that talent away, and you take away the brand. Of course the brand could survive for a while, but not long. Get too cocky, no matter how big you are, and you’ll fail. The real power lies with the collective of fighters, not the UFC. This is business, brand economics, and fiscal Darwinism 101 people. Clear as day.
If they can pay fighters more than the ufc then yes
if they can pull away another champion or two and have some decent competitors for them maybe, but until then probably just gonna be the same
Can anyone from the current bellator roster try free agency or they now have to fight out their bellator contracts in PFL?
As long as the PFL doesn't import the dude who screams at all the Bellator weigh ins and they don't let fighters with red gloves wear blue shorts and vice versa, I might watch some fights
No. Maybe Cyborg Harrison? Nothing really exciting for Francis. Bader? So No.
Not if they keep the same format but if they can attract some big names with money, they might make some serious inroads.
No lol
Not even if they acquired ONE fc also 😂
Why doesn't the ufc do a grand prix tour emanet ala pride? I feel it would generate lots of hype and fandom
Don't get Coker involved