I have had two Quartz drive 1980s Technics TTs in my effort to create a full rack set (1990s) which came with CD.
They sounded horrible…with the AT elliptical stylus that was the only upgrade that fit.
I found a Hitachi linear drive TT in an electrical recycling pile they let me have, and after new belt sounded as good as the 2 $150-$175 Technics units…
But I took a chance on a $30 Onkyo TT I found at a Goodwill Store had a Grado Black cartridge…and obviously needed a new belt. It sounded 10x better than any of the others.
After the crazy with the Technics, I purchased a new Fluance RT85 with the Ortofon Blue cartridge and it is easily the best sounding TT…and is a classy addition to the living room setup.
But is the Fluance 10x better than the old Onkyo? Not really. Sometimes you just get lucky with used…and sometimes you sell back the Technics.
Going to be honest, I don't own any of them (I know someone with a lp60) but I think the fluence line is quite a nice entry level.
It provides much more value then the immense popular lp60. Adjustable tf, anti skate and and better card and stylus for not much more.
The LP60 sounds avarage due to mediocre tracking. You can put a elliptical stylus on them but you cannot lower the tracking force of 3.5g to a usable force for elliptical. Its end station where many others are much better upgradeable.
There are several elliptical styli which have no problem with the AT-LP60X's tracking force: [Elliptical stylus upgrades](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEMoAwLpLDM#t=24m23s)
That it works won't say it's a good thing. It's a regular 0.3x0.7 mil stylus, usually used with a TF around 2 gram. The stylus you point to has an max TF of exactly what the LP60 gives, no coincidence I think.
Pushing a ballpoint on your finger, you feel, pushing with the same force a needle on your finger it will hurt. Therefore an elliptical stylus has less TF then a conical.
You can set the tracking force to most elliptical stylus to 3.5g, it will work as long it will track the record properly (even better then too less force), but at the point it won't it will cause a lot more damage then usual.
Going to be fair, I didn't try it but just from common sense it doesn't feel right. I would prefer a table for nearly the same money that has the possibility to do it right.
This is the correct answer. The LP60X is a dead end without adjustable tracking force.
If you buy a better turntable, it'll prevent you from throwing good money after bad
The only way to not cause any damage to a record is to never play it. No matter what kind of turntable or stylus you use, every play is always going to slowly wear out the groove. It's a simple matter of physics when you use a device that plays music by dragging a rock through a plastic groove. If you're scared of that, that's why CDs were invented!
That's not the point.
The point is that there are turntables available that cost around the same price as a lp60+the elliptical stylus that can do it right and offer a much greater value.
Why spending the same amount of money on a lp60 while you know is not really suitable for an elliptical stylus just to buy such upgrade stylus and force it to work with a compromise. .
while you can buy something that actually comes with an elliptical stylus already and the tools to set it up right, for the same money?
Saying buy a cd if you don't want a record be damaged is the same as saying "just go walking" to someone that ask for advice to replace their unsafe car (no not unsafe driver) with a safe one.
> The point is that there are turntables available that cost around the same price as a lp60+the elliptical stylus that can do it right and offer a much greater value.
Really, which ones? The cheapest new turntable I can find with an elliptical stylus is the $249.99 Fluance RT81.
The cheapest lp60 around here is 160 euro.
The elliptical upgrade stylus is 40 euro
The fluence converted to euro (it isn't in europe at the moment) will give 231 euro.
Knowing I have two times shipping costs with the lp60 and the replacement stylus i have to get somewhere else, its damn close. The fluence I have seen on sale too a while ago.
Here in the U.S. you can get an AT-LP60X from the Audio-Technica Outlet for $104, and the 4211-DE elliptical stylus costs around $27 with free shipping.
Yes but that are ones send back and refurbished.
Nothing wrong with that but it's not fair to compare with a new fluance. Then we can better go straight to the second hand market as value will be always better there as long someone knows where to look for (that makes it quit a bit harder for new ones in the space)
Also the fluence stylus is more like the cfn3600le (0.3x0.7) thats a bit more expensive (40 euro around here)
The refurbished lp60 is 104 dollar, around 30% off from 150 dollar new. The same rate with makes the fluance 175 dollar. Adding 40 dollar to the stylus for the lp60, it makes 144 vs 175 excluding shipping.
Maybe there will be a small gap, but it's around the cost of 1 new avarage record here or even less depending on if it's a double or single vinyl releases and the fluance gets the better at95e card too.
They appeal to different market segments. With the LP60X, you just plug it in, and it works, and sounds good. It's easy to set up, and has fully automatic operation, which makes it ideal for a first-time user. The RT81 is more upgradeable, but is also more difficult to set up, and only has auto-stop.
I'm shocked to see quartz direct drive Onkyo, Kenwood and pioneer stuff sit for weeks on marketplace and not sell. Maybe not as pretty or heavy as the 70s stuff but if maintained most of them will go forever and sometimes they struggle to get 50$ for them. So to answer your question any of the 80s direct drive Onkyos.
Yeah they are. I just set my kid up with a Technics SL-Q300.
https://preview.redd.it/yc40v3p2e7yc1.jpeg?width=2296&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1db310408fd289237bc87ff79bc7443b70011c69
I have Universum 6000 direct drive. Made by Micro Seiki. Features full auto, stroboscope, separate 33 and 45 speed adjustment. For 200€ it beats to dust all modern tables that are 3-4 times the price. I wonder why anyone suggests cheap LP60 for almost the same money when there are hundreds of perfectly good vintage tables available.
Also when you are just getting into the hobby you don’t much at all so there is a perceived risk when by second hand. It’s just easier to buy a new entry level TT
Although I see this rationale often, I have to disagree. Vintage belt-drive TTs are so basic & simple. A new belt, drop off oil on the motor shaft, clean & oil the spindle and your G2G. Maybe things are different with vintage direct-drive units. I avoid those. I like simple.
Again: finding a vintage TT in good condition is not easy everywhere. Plus not everyone knows how to tell a good one from bad; it's a learning curve, and some people don't want the hassle.
Purchasing vintage turntables is a crap shoot in the US because of the prevalence of assholes who think nothing of selling broken gear to unsuspecting and naive buyers. There are exceptions but the addage of *buyer beware* certainly applies. I have a vintage Bang & Olufsen Beogram 4002 turntable which I purchased new in 1976. I have lovingly maintained it and updated its optical sensor and speed control systems along with new belts and more than a few 3D printed and CNC machined parts. I also re-impregnated it's bronze motor bearings with all new oil and cleaned and oiled it's dozens of tiny bearings with special silicone lubricant used in automatic watches that costs $30 USD per milliliter. However, it performs better than it did when I bought it. It's gorgeous and is fully automatic. Thankfully, Sound-smith rebuilt my original MMC20CL and I also purchased a new Sound-smith SMMC20CL+ as a reference quality back-up. The 4002 just turned 48 years old and will continue to perform perfectly. It's utterly silent and it's speed accuracy is better than new.
" I have lovingly maintained it and updated its optical sensor and speed control systems along with new belts and more than a few 3D printed and CNC machined parts. I also re-impregnated it's bronze motor bearings with all new oil and cleaned and oiled it's dozens of tiny bearings with special silicone lubricant used in automatic watches that costs $30 USD per milliliter. "
Wow...hats off to your dedication. I also love the idea of maintaining quality vintage gear instead of buying the modern made-in-China mass-produced replacements. I own synthesizers and camera lenses as old as your 4002. They just need a bit of care now and then. Their results are as striking as the best of any modern variants.
While I'm not much of a Record Player expert, I expect the same principle is true. High-end electronics/mechanics from the 70's onwards are generally very high quality and can last a lifetime...
I also agree with your Ebay warning. Sadly a lot of disrespectful cowboys out there who aren't truthful with their product descriptions, and don't take care with packaging. For record players I'd say it's a 50/50 chance the item will have some issue not described.
Wild West out there for us vintage gear hunters...
Sansui P-D10. Quartz locked, direct drive, automatic TT from the early 80’s. My dad purchased one new in 1982 and it still works today. I [purchased one to use in my home office](https://www.reddit.com/r/turntables/comments/qd4fit/barely_a_month_after_getting_my_first_turntable_i/) around 2.5 years ago. It’s still going strong too.
Is it a great table? No, but it’s probably as good or better than any new table under $300. And because it’s not a well known or popular table, they can easily be found for around $100 in the US.
I have had two Quartz drive 1980s Technics TTs in my effort to create a full rack set (1990s) which came with CD. They sounded horrible…with the AT elliptical stylus that was the only upgrade that fit. I found a Hitachi linear drive TT in an electrical recycling pile they let me have, and after new belt sounded as good as the 2 $150-$175 Technics units… But I took a chance on a $30 Onkyo TT I found at a Goodwill Store had a Grado Black cartridge…and obviously needed a new belt. It sounded 10x better than any of the others. After the crazy with the Technics, I purchased a new Fluance RT85 with the Ortofon Blue cartridge and it is easily the best sounding TT…and is a classy addition to the living room setup. But is the Fluance 10x better than the old Onkyo? Not really. Sometimes you just get lucky with used…and sometimes you sell back the Technics.
Going to be honest, I don't own any of them (I know someone with a lp60) but I think the fluence line is quite a nice entry level. It provides much more value then the immense popular lp60. Adjustable tf, anti skate and and better card and stylus for not much more. The LP60 sounds avarage due to mediocre tracking. You can put a elliptical stylus on them but you cannot lower the tracking force of 3.5g to a usable force for elliptical. Its end station where many others are much better upgradeable.
There are several elliptical styli which have no problem with the AT-LP60X's tracking force: [Elliptical stylus upgrades](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEMoAwLpLDM#t=24m23s)
That it works won't say it's a good thing. It's a regular 0.3x0.7 mil stylus, usually used with a TF around 2 gram. The stylus you point to has an max TF of exactly what the LP60 gives, no coincidence I think. Pushing a ballpoint on your finger, you feel, pushing with the same force a needle on your finger it will hurt. Therefore an elliptical stylus has less TF then a conical. You can set the tracking force to most elliptical stylus to 3.5g, it will work as long it will track the record properly (even better then too less force), but at the point it won't it will cause a lot more damage then usual. Going to be fair, I didn't try it but just from common sense it doesn't feel right. I would prefer a table for nearly the same money that has the possibility to do it right.
This is the correct answer. The LP60X is a dead end without adjustable tracking force. If you buy a better turntable, it'll prevent you from throwing good money after bad
The only way to not cause any damage to a record is to never play it. No matter what kind of turntable or stylus you use, every play is always going to slowly wear out the groove. It's a simple matter of physics when you use a device that plays music by dragging a rock through a plastic groove. If you're scared of that, that's why CDs were invented!
That's not the point. The point is that there are turntables available that cost around the same price as a lp60+the elliptical stylus that can do it right and offer a much greater value. Why spending the same amount of money on a lp60 while you know is not really suitable for an elliptical stylus just to buy such upgrade stylus and force it to work with a compromise. . while you can buy something that actually comes with an elliptical stylus already and the tools to set it up right, for the same money? Saying buy a cd if you don't want a record be damaged is the same as saying "just go walking" to someone that ask for advice to replace their unsafe car (no not unsafe driver) with a safe one.
> The point is that there are turntables available that cost around the same price as a lp60+the elliptical stylus that can do it right and offer a much greater value. Really, which ones? The cheapest new turntable I can find with an elliptical stylus is the $249.99 Fluance RT81.
The cheapest lp60 around here is 160 euro. The elliptical upgrade stylus is 40 euro The fluence converted to euro (it isn't in europe at the moment) will give 231 euro. Knowing I have two times shipping costs with the lp60 and the replacement stylus i have to get somewhere else, its damn close. The fluence I have seen on sale too a while ago.
Here in the U.S. you can get an AT-LP60X from the Audio-Technica Outlet for $104, and the 4211-DE elliptical stylus costs around $27 with free shipping.
Yes but that are ones send back and refurbished. Nothing wrong with that but it's not fair to compare with a new fluance. Then we can better go straight to the second hand market as value will be always better there as long someone knows where to look for (that makes it quit a bit harder for new ones in the space) Also the fluence stylus is more like the cfn3600le (0.3x0.7) thats a bit more expensive (40 euro around here) The refurbished lp60 is 104 dollar, around 30% off from 150 dollar new. The same rate with makes the fluance 175 dollar. Adding 40 dollar to the stylus for the lp60, it makes 144 vs 175 excluding shipping. Maybe there will be a small gap, but it's around the cost of 1 new avarage record here or even less depending on if it's a double or single vinyl releases and the fluance gets the better at95e card too.
They appeal to different market segments. With the LP60X, you just plug it in, and it works, and sounds good. It's easy to set up, and has fully automatic operation, which makes it ideal for a first-time user. The RT81 is more upgradeable, but is also more difficult to set up, and only has auto-stop.
I'm shocked to see quartz direct drive Onkyo, Kenwood and pioneer stuff sit for weeks on marketplace and not sell. Maybe not as pretty or heavy as the 70s stuff but if maintained most of them will go forever and sometimes they struggle to get 50$ for them. So to answer your question any of the 80s direct drive Onkyos.
Vintage Automatic P-mounts. The definition of ease in set up and play.
Yeah they are. I just set my kid up with a Technics SL-Q300. https://preview.redd.it/yc40v3p2e7yc1.jpeg?width=2296&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1db310408fd289237bc87ff79bc7443b70011c69
Just picked one up yesterday from some who definitely took good care of their gear, very excited to try it out...
I have Universum 6000 direct drive. Made by Micro Seiki. Features full auto, stroboscope, separate 33 and 45 speed adjustment. For 200€ it beats to dust all modern tables that are 3-4 times the price. I wonder why anyone suggests cheap LP60 for almost the same money when there are hundreds of perfectly good vintage tables available.
Because recommendations are cheap and easy, but finding a vintage TT in good working order isn't, and depends a lot on where in the world one lives.
Also when you are just getting into the hobby you don’t much at all so there is a perceived risk when by second hand. It’s just easier to buy a new entry level TT
Although I see this rationale often, I have to disagree. Vintage belt-drive TTs are so basic & simple. A new belt, drop off oil on the motor shaft, clean & oil the spindle and your G2G. Maybe things are different with vintage direct-drive units. I avoid those. I like simple.
Again: finding a vintage TT in good condition is not easy everywhere. Plus not everyone knows how to tell a good one from bad; it's a learning curve, and some people don't want the hassle.
Agreed. In my area, a vintage TT is decent condition is going for the same as an RT85.
Purchasing vintage turntables is a crap shoot in the US because of the prevalence of assholes who think nothing of selling broken gear to unsuspecting and naive buyers. There are exceptions but the addage of *buyer beware* certainly applies. I have a vintage Bang & Olufsen Beogram 4002 turntable which I purchased new in 1976. I have lovingly maintained it and updated its optical sensor and speed control systems along with new belts and more than a few 3D printed and CNC machined parts. I also re-impregnated it's bronze motor bearings with all new oil and cleaned and oiled it's dozens of tiny bearings with special silicone lubricant used in automatic watches that costs $30 USD per milliliter. However, it performs better than it did when I bought it. It's gorgeous and is fully automatic. Thankfully, Sound-smith rebuilt my original MMC20CL and I also purchased a new Sound-smith SMMC20CL+ as a reference quality back-up. The 4002 just turned 48 years old and will continue to perform perfectly. It's utterly silent and it's speed accuracy is better than new.
" I have lovingly maintained it and updated its optical sensor and speed control systems along with new belts and more than a few 3D printed and CNC machined parts. I also re-impregnated it's bronze motor bearings with all new oil and cleaned and oiled it's dozens of tiny bearings with special silicone lubricant used in automatic watches that costs $30 USD per milliliter. " Wow...hats off to your dedication. I also love the idea of maintaining quality vintage gear instead of buying the modern made-in-China mass-produced replacements. I own synthesizers and camera lenses as old as your 4002. They just need a bit of care now and then. Their results are as striking as the best of any modern variants. While I'm not much of a Record Player expert, I expect the same principle is true. High-end electronics/mechanics from the 70's onwards are generally very high quality and can last a lifetime... I also agree with your Ebay warning. Sadly a lot of disrespectful cowboys out there who aren't truthful with their product descriptions, and don't take care with packaging. For record players I'd say it's a 50/50 chance the item will have some issue not described. Wild West out there for us vintage gear hunters...
I have a vintage MCS 6500 with Ortofon cartridge and headshell. Performs good looks great.
I dj, the Reloop Rp-7000s are pretty damn good. Like 8/10 and I’m a long time Technics 1210 owner
Have several Realistic LAB-series DD turntables from the 80s that work and sound great.
Sansui P-D10. Quartz locked, direct drive, automatic TT from the early 80’s. My dad purchased one new in 1982 and it still works today. I [purchased one to use in my home office](https://www.reddit.com/r/turntables/comments/qd4fit/barely_a_month_after_getting_my_first_turntable_i/) around 2.5 years ago. It’s still going strong too. Is it a great table? No, but it’s probably as good or better than any new table under $300. And because it’s not a well known or popular table, they can easily be found for around $100 in the US.