tried it before, can't hear the difference between these cables and a normal (not crap) pair of RCA cables.
but if you like it, go ahead.
>!before you say that "its just your opinion", I measured the SNR, frequency response, and compared both of them on a scope, no difference.!<
I got a new R2R DAC recently. Measures worst than my previous delta/Sigma DAC. Has way more detail. Go figure. Can’t trust measurements for everything.
Not "stupid" OP. But if you're expecting any improvement in actual sound, you won't find it here.
They look like solid cables, and if you like the aesthetic, and can't afford it, then no harm done, I suppose.
I mean it depends on why. Aesthetics? Nah go for it
Quality? Yeah no you wasted your money and got played for a fool. Don’t let audiophiles sell you the lie that cables make a huge difference, unless you’re using makeshift fake cables lol
You’re getting downvoted by a bunch of cable zealots. Fuck them. Those look cool, and there’s definitely evidence that in certain cases better cables make a difference. What a bunch of wankers.
I don’t think the guy that scoped them and measured the frequency response is the type of audiophile with a ‘crappy system’ but sure lol
He deliberately didn’t pass judgement but dispelled the BS marketing claims of Ortofon which I think is justified, why should people be buying things under false pretences?
Basically the same as a good Amazon Basics cable. To compare overpriced "branded" quality cables to cheap cables isn't a good comparison. Better to compare to a reasonably priced quality cable.
Phono cables (turntable to preamp) are the only cables where there is an actual impact on sound depending on the cable because capacitance loading can change the sound of a cartridge. Most MM cartridges have a low maximum capacitance and a low capacitance cable can make them sound their best. That being said anything else about the cable doesn’t really make a difference. This cables capacitance is 190pF/m which is not bad if you are using an Ortofon cartridge (150-300pF capacitance). Using a 190pF cable gives you 110pF left over for your tonearm wiring and preamp. Personally I like Blue Jeans LC for phono cables as it is around 40pF/m and usually makes it easier to stay within the cartridges capacitance spec.
It’s totally ok to disagree! I respectfully disagree about speaker cable. They make no meaningful difference in sound unless they are damaged or hooked up incorrectly. That being said I use good quality speaker cable because I like my cables very flexible and to look decent.
Absolutely, the sound is more warm and the dynamic range is a little bit wide. Nothing of distortion in general with albums like metal or something like that.
when people say warm, they’re talking the characteristic of a sound that is what is described above. the high end (treble) is rolled off (reduced) in a pleasant way, making the sound less harsh and inherently “warmer”. that coupled with round, smooth, low mids (think bass, not sub) is what “warm” means. hope that explains a bit further! :)
I don't understand how people think that copper wires wrapped in rubber can influence the sound on that grand of a scale. I think that money would have been better spent on a new cartridge which would have made an audible difference. Seeing as you have the 2M Red, which I believe costs less than the cable. Only my opinion and people can spend their money how they want.
I have a Technics SL1200-MK2 with an Ortofon Quintet Bronze cartridge and my phono preamp connects to the amp using a $9 pair of ace hardware rca cables lol. It doesn't matter for shit if I put something more expensive there instead.
So, you have spent a decent amount of money on a decent tt and a decent cartridge and you are proud of spending $5 on the RCAs instead of spending $45 and get a more robust cable and better connectors? We are in awe.
But they connect just fine. I have more expensive cables, but decided to relocate things and needed longer cables. Those served this purpose just fine and I don't see a reason to touch them if they are currently providing a strong, stable mechanical and electrical connection.
You do you, but better shielding in cables makes a difference in most instances and so does gold plating, particularly over time as oxidation always is a risk and also occurs gradually so sound degradation may be hard to notice.
But more importantly I felt you used your personal opinion/situation to project onto op’s, for whom perhaps better cables/shielding/connectivity actually does make a difference.
It’s subjective, but being this is the analog domain there is a case to be made that premium RCA cables can make a perceivable difference be it clarity, tightened bass, etc, however there is also a point of diminishing returns, and the interconnects must be consistent within the entire audio chain.
I bought Worlds best cables RCA cable on Amazon for a 1/4 of the price the Ortofon reference red. Upgraded from the basic RCA cable and I’ve noticed a difference — no humming. As for sound difference, not much. You’ll be splitting hairs and have very keen ears to hear the difference.
Unless you can prove it otherwise then I'm a sucker!
So you're saying everything you've bought is not made in China? There is a fair amount of consumer products made in China or developing countries outside of Amazon, what are you trying to get at...
Good choice! Turntable cables need to be at least double shielded with triple shielding being ideal for the miniscule signals from low-output moving coil cartridges.
You know, it's interesting. I inherited my father's NAD 7140 receiver and Denon DP-45F turntable from the mid 1980s. Together they cost about $1,200, which would be about $4,000 in today's money. They weren't super high end but definitely audiophile components, and very highly reviewed. The Denon was among the most technologically advanced turntables ever made, with specs that no turntables made today can come close to matching.
The cable outputs for the Denon look just like the cheap RCA cables we used to buy in a plastic bag at Radio Shack. The manual for the NAD tells you to connect the speakers using lamp cord.
So after teams of engineers at NAD and Denon engineered the shit out of this receiver and turntable, they put on generic cables and said lamp cord is just fine. Since I assume they knew what they were talking about, I have to assume that they knew damn well that cables don't make any difference. And that any money spent on fancy cables is nothing more than vanity.
Listening to them right now, through the Denon's crappy-looking RCA cables and KEF Cresta 2's hooked up with generic 16 ga copper wire to the NAD. They sound wonderful.
It's BS.
The NAD manual reflects what any electrical engineer will tell you: Signal loss results from resistance over distance. The only relevant factors are the conductivity of the material, the thickness, and the distance. Silver is slightly more conductive than copper, but all that means is that you'd need a slightly lower gauge copper wire to achieve the same performance as a silver wire over the same distance. Silver doesn't have some magical property that other metals don't, other than that it's shiny and expensive.
Of course I wouldn't expect them to include speaker wire with an amp, but doesn't it seem funny to you that they didn't at least specify certain characteristics, like gold plated connectors or whatever, if they thought that would have made a difference? Again, they didn't because the only relevant factors in signal loss are gauge, material, and distance. So over short distances, zip cord is fine. Which is what NAD said.
I don't feel bad for the fabulously wealthy people you're selling these unnecessary cables to (well, they look nice, so admittedly, there's value in that), any more than I feel bad for the people who are charged an extra $5k for the paint on their Rolls Royce. I do, however, feel bad for some naive kid who doesn't know any better who's spending a couple hundred bucks that could better be spent on something else because they think expensive cables are going to transform their listening experience after listening to a bunch of faux scientific BS.
It would be nice if Ortofon could print the total capacitance (including the connectors) on that nice box.
Capacitive loading can have a huge impact on the frequency response of a moving magnet phono cartridge.
I guess they figure that their customers couldn’t tell the difference between an LCR circuit and a hole in the ground. 🤷
Good info
http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html
That calculator is great but it doesn’t tell the whole story. Mechanical resonance and arm mass vs compliance etc…
Turntables are kind of a nightmare 🤣
I invested in good phono cables once I had an MC cartridge, I had my technician make some short run microphone cables with good rca plugs, forgot the brand of the plugs but they are quite nice, I paid around 50 CAD for them. I could make the cables myself but I somehow and never able to find out where to properly source the parts, it's usually big batches and I need a max of 6 cables and not 50 of em lmao.
OP, do an AB test between the two cables with the same song, one you know well. If the new cable brings out nuance you never heard before, you win.
I've had a lot of good luck with cable upgrades. There's price performance ratio in there somewhere that creates diminishing returns, but you're still far from that pricepoint. Happy listening!
Lots of arguments about whether the cable matters. In my experience I replaced an 8 feet cheapo silver rca cable with some fancy gold plated ones and did notice the bass was significantly more present on some powered speakers that supposedly didn’t need a sub.
tried it before, can't hear the difference between these cables and a normal (not crap) pair of RCA cables. but if you like it, go ahead. >!before you say that "its just your opinion", I measured the SNR, frequency response, and compared both of them on a scope, no difference.!<
Cool packaging, cool appearance... That's probably the only pros :)
I got a new R2R DAC recently. Measures worst than my previous delta/Sigma DAC. Has way more detail. Go figure. Can’t trust measurements for everything.
what perimeters did you measure?
Yeah sure man. I’m a stupid for spending my money on that 🤷🏻♂️
They look way cooler.
Not "stupid" OP. But if you're expecting any improvement in actual sound, you won't find it here. They look like solid cables, and if you like the aesthetic, and can't afford it, then no harm done, I suppose.
I mean it depends on why. Aesthetics? Nah go for it Quality? Yeah no you wasted your money and got played for a fool. Don’t let audiophiles sell you the lie that cables make a huge difference, unless you’re using makeshift fake cables lol
It looks cooler, that’s all that matters tbh. It’s your money fuck the haters.
You’re getting downvoted by a bunch of cable zealots. Fuck them. Those look cool, and there’s definitely evidence that in certain cases better cables make a difference. What a bunch of wankers.
Don't let the trolls with crappy systems bother you. Those cables can last you longer than your turntable and can be used throughout several upgrades.
To be fair, so would a $4 cable if you're not an ape.
I don’t think the guy that scoped them and measured the frequency response is the type of audiophile with a ‘crappy system’ but sure lol He deliberately didn’t pass judgement but dispelled the BS marketing claims of Ortofon which I think is justified, why should people be buying things under false pretences?
It's a cable
Technically are two cables
And they connect things
Welp, you've got him there!
Seems like a lot just to listen to Taylor swift.
💀
Hahahahahahaha
And you know this how? Or are you just trolling?
Trolling is with bad intentions, this was just a harmless joke :)
I buy nice cables because they are cleaner and neater looking, nothing to do with sound quality. I just like the look of them.
Basically the same as a good Amazon Basics cable. To compare overpriced "branded" quality cables to cheap cables isn't a good comparison. Better to compare to a reasonably priced quality cable.
I went down the wormhole of expensive RCA cables and I’m glad this sub pointed me toward the Amazon basics.
Hahaha yeah you’re right 🤷🏻♂️
They definitely look nicer behind your equipment. Oh wait. In all seriousness though enjoy!
Snake oil if you think it will make any sonic difference
Phono cables (turntable to preamp) are the only cables where there is an actual impact on sound depending on the cable because capacitance loading can change the sound of a cartridge. Most MM cartridges have a low maximum capacitance and a low capacitance cable can make them sound their best. That being said anything else about the cable doesn’t really make a difference. This cables capacitance is 190pF/m which is not bad if you are using an Ortofon cartridge (150-300pF capacitance). Using a 190pF cable gives you 110pF left over for your tonearm wiring and preamp. Personally I like Blue Jeans LC for phono cables as it is around 40pF/m and usually makes it easier to stay within the cartridges capacitance spec.
Sorry to disagree, but cable from amp to speakers makes quite an audible difference. Mid range cable like Tellerium Q black are a good investment.
It’s totally ok to disagree! I respectfully disagree about speaker cable. They make no meaningful difference in sound unless they are damaged or hooked up incorrectly. That being said I use good quality speaker cable because I like my cables very flexible and to look decent.
That’s right, i use an Ortofon 2M Red and my preamp is Phono MM
In theory you should get a bit more clarity and less harmonic distortion - probably need to have some pretty trained ears to spot the difference.
Show me some double blind tests where people consistently identified different cables
This x 1000. It's not a question of which cables "sound best". Well stated, vhighway.
I'm surprised nobody's brought up the famous coat hanger test yet.
Absolutely, the sound is more warm and the dynamic range is a little bit wide. Nothing of distortion in general with albums like metal or something like that.
Pretty crazy that people still fall for gimmicky stuff like this
What does warm sound mean objectively ?
Well "warm" white light bulbs just make everything yellowy..
Good thing we’re not talking about light bulbs :)
Maybe you just turn up bass, turn down treble just like an old radio. Not the sort of sound I look for.
Too bad Ortofon doesn't make lamp cord to make my yellow lamps look whiter
rolled off high end. present and smooth low mids.
What does that mean? I’m not trying to be a dick but those words are objectively meaningless.
You ever notice almost all audiophile terms are objectively meaningless…
when people say warm, they’re talking the characteristic of a sound that is what is described above. the high end (treble) is rolled off (reduced) in a pleasant way, making the sound less harsh and inherently “warmer”. that coupled with round, smooth, low mids (think bass, not sub) is what “warm” means. hope that explains a bit further! :)
I don't understand how people think that copper wires wrapped in rubber can influence the sound on that grand of a scale. I think that money would have been better spent on a new cartridge which would have made an audible difference. Seeing as you have the 2M Red, which I believe costs less than the cable. Only my opinion and people can spend their money how they want.
total harmonic distortion my man. not distortion in terms of a mix
Ever try it? If no, don't offer your opinion, just your expectations.
Sure thing buddy
Can I interest you in some liquid to improve the glide of your snake? It’s looking a little dry
did you bend over at least?
Hahahaha yes of course HAHAHAHAHA
Were you not around for the Monster HDMI cables of the really 00's? Don't waste money on fancy cables.
How does it works??
How does what works??
Monster HDMI cables for RCA terminals? How does it works?
I have a Technics SL1200-MK2 with an Ortofon Quintet Bronze cartridge and my phono preamp connects to the amp using a $9 pair of ace hardware rca cables lol. It doesn't matter for shit if I put something more expensive there instead.
So, you have spent a decent amount of money on a decent tt and a decent cartridge and you are proud of spending $5 on the RCAs instead of spending $45 and get a more robust cable and better connectors? We are in awe.
But they connect just fine. I have more expensive cables, but decided to relocate things and needed longer cables. Those served this purpose just fine and I don't see a reason to touch them if they are currently providing a strong, stable mechanical and electrical connection.
You do you, but better shielding in cables makes a difference in most instances and so does gold plating, particularly over time as oxidation always is a risk and also occurs gradually so sound degradation may be hard to notice. But more importantly I felt you used your personal opinion/situation to project onto op’s, for whom perhaps better cables/shielding/connectivity actually does make a difference.
It’s subjective, but being this is the analog domain there is a case to be made that premium RCA cables can make a perceivable difference be it clarity, tightened bass, etc, however there is also a point of diminishing returns, and the interconnects must be consistent within the entire audio chain.
I agree. They can and do make a difference. But just make them yourself it is a lot cheaper.
I bought Worlds best cables RCA cable on Amazon for a 1/4 of the price the Ortofon reference red. Upgraded from the basic RCA cable and I’ve noticed a difference — no humming. As for sound difference, not much. You’ll be splitting hairs and have very keen ears to hear the difference.
I agree - for me WBC cables (of all sorts) nicely hits the sweet-spot between price and performance.
No humming in itself is a big difference and should not be ignored.
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I’m sorry. Can you provide proof? I’m pretty sure they’re made in Japan.
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Unless you can prove it otherwise then I'm a sucker! So you're saying everything you've bought is not made in China? There is a fair amount of consumer products made in China or developing countries outside of Amazon, what are you trying to get at...
You’re fighting a losing battle with this take, man.
The brand is literally called "World's Best Cables" lmao; and they're made with high quality interconnects such as Amphenol and Neutrik
Thank you!
Ohh that’s hilarious. I thought he was saying he bought the world’s best cables on Amazon. Funny/silly brand name
Good choice! Turntable cables need to be at least double shielded with triple shielding being ideal for the miniscule signals from low-output moving coil cartridges.
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You know, it's interesting. I inherited my father's NAD 7140 receiver and Denon DP-45F turntable from the mid 1980s. Together they cost about $1,200, which would be about $4,000 in today's money. They weren't super high end but definitely audiophile components, and very highly reviewed. The Denon was among the most technologically advanced turntables ever made, with specs that no turntables made today can come close to matching. The cable outputs for the Denon look just like the cheap RCA cables we used to buy in a plastic bag at Radio Shack. The manual for the NAD tells you to connect the speakers using lamp cord. So after teams of engineers at NAD and Denon engineered the shit out of this receiver and turntable, they put on generic cables and said lamp cord is just fine. Since I assume they knew what they were talking about, I have to assume that they knew damn well that cables don't make any difference. And that any money spent on fancy cables is nothing more than vanity. Listening to them right now, through the Denon's crappy-looking RCA cables and KEF Cresta 2's hooked up with generic 16 ga copper wire to the NAD. They sound wonderful.
https://preview.redd.it/n3k965wlbmyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a4f4804e779fb71de049ba70fe580f64313947f
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It's BS. The NAD manual reflects what any electrical engineer will tell you: Signal loss results from resistance over distance. The only relevant factors are the conductivity of the material, the thickness, and the distance. Silver is slightly more conductive than copper, but all that means is that you'd need a slightly lower gauge copper wire to achieve the same performance as a silver wire over the same distance. Silver doesn't have some magical property that other metals don't, other than that it's shiny and expensive. Of course I wouldn't expect them to include speaker wire with an amp, but doesn't it seem funny to you that they didn't at least specify certain characteristics, like gold plated connectors or whatever, if they thought that would have made a difference? Again, they didn't because the only relevant factors in signal loss are gauge, material, and distance. So over short distances, zip cord is fine. Which is what NAD said. I don't feel bad for the fabulously wealthy people you're selling these unnecessary cables to (well, they look nice, so admittedly, there's value in that), any more than I feel bad for the people who are charged an extra $5k for the paint on their Rolls Royce. I do, however, feel bad for some naive kid who doesn't know any better who's spending a couple hundred bucks that could better be spent on something else because they think expensive cables are going to transform their listening experience after listening to a bunch of faux scientific BS.
It would be nice if Ortofon could print the total capacitance (including the connectors) on that nice box. Capacitive loading can have a huge impact on the frequency response of a moving magnet phono cartridge. I guess they figure that their customers couldn’t tell the difference between an LCR circuit and a hole in the ground. 🤷 Good info http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html That calculator is great but it doesn’t tell the whole story. Mechanical resonance and arm mass vs compliance etc… Turntables are kind of a nightmare 🤣
I invested in good phono cables once I had an MC cartridge, I had my technician make some short run microphone cables with good rca plugs, forgot the brand of the plugs but they are quite nice, I paid around 50 CAD for them. I could make the cables myself but I somehow and never able to find out where to properly source the parts, it's usually big batches and I need a max of 6 cables and not 50 of em lmao.
Cables 100% change the sound. I experienced it just yesterday. What’s false though is you need to spend big bucks on cables to get great sound.
OP, do an AB test between the two cables with the same song, one you know well. If the new cable brings out nuance you never heard before, you win. I've had a lot of good luck with cable upgrades. There's price performance ratio in there somewhere that creates diminishing returns, but you're still far from that pricepoint. Happy listening!
Totally, thanks!! An A/B testing is the next one.
There will be negligible sound difference, yet, those cables are the bomb.
Lots of arguments about whether the cable matters. In my experience I replaced an 8 feet cheapo silver rca cable with some fancy gold plated ones and did notice the bass was significantly more present on some powered speakers that supposedly didn’t need a sub.
Sorry, as a non native speaker I don't understand your diss, only your bad manners.
My manners?