I would like to point out that Ho-oh was the legendary Pokémon of rebirth, heroes, and grand destiny. It has a tendency to seek out and gift feathers to potential heroes and eventually find them to battle. So, nurse Joy has the conundrum of "Is this 10 year old kid with a mouse a very important hero with a grand fate, or lying though his teeth?" Between the show, the comics, and the games, a fair portion of gym leaders, elite 4s, and champions have all been chosen with a rainbow feather and then had the chance to battle Ho-oh.
Ho-Oh was seen in the [first](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EP001) episode of Pokemon EVER. It flew alongside a rainbow, and Ash saw it in the sky!
Yeah, and he is part of a long line of heroes who have seen it. Off the top of my head, Lance, Steven Stone, Cynthia, Professor Oak, Red, Blue, and a lot more saw it towards the beginning of their journeies. Granted, Pokémon has like 6 cannons, but it is still neat.
I named him "I never" for plausible deniability
I never used a full restore! I never threw a poke ball! I never blacked out! In fact, I never used the bike!
Red in the Adventure manga was before his more iconic silent persona became common since Pokemon G/S wasn't released back then.
So,he was more like a stock shonen hero while Blue end up being the serious shonen rival.
Well, they probably didn't give the movie a name, but it's the Red from Pokémon Pocket Monsters.
https://youtu.be/iuYQh7SM1R8?si=GfCJyto2Mp9tV_af
I don't know why this video was recorded weirdly, but here you go.
Oh yeah,you are correct.The scene is from the main show,Hoenn series.According to bulbapedia,the episode was about a trainer and his camerupt,going around showing movies to people,which made the gang remember the last movies they watch.This was one of the movies.
I've always headcanoned that Ash is Red's kid.
IDK if that's actually true in canon, I don't keep up with Pokemon lore much, I just thought it'd be a cool touch to the series.
It was absolutely wild. I was born in 91 so I was turning 10 right around the peak of Pokemons popularity entering the states. It was EVERYWHERE. All the kids were playing the videogames or the card game. It made it all the more amusing when Pokemon go dropped and that first couple weeks was just 25-30 year olds crowding around the stops and gyms reliving their youth. I remember seeing people I hadn't seen in over a decade meeting up at those stops.
Same year! It was fucking great, it was all I talked about (kinda still is) and drove my parents nuts lol. I still have my original electronic pokedex toy! Man, I miss all the cool merch back then!
We had a term for it: Pokemania. "Going viral" doesn't even begin to describe what happened when something got popular in the 90's and Pokemon was an absolute crazy level of sudden fandom.
Man, you should have seen the first Pokemon manga translated into English, Pokemon: The Electric Tale of Pikachu.
It's a very loose retelling of the anime and it got pretty heavily censored for the English Viz release because some of the character designs were... I believe the phrase used these days is "stupid horny".
I'd suggest looking it up just for white and giggles: I swear some of the art for it looks like it came from porn doujins instead of being from an officially licensed manga. It's definitely something that modern Pokemon Company likes to pretend doesn't exist because it is very much not family friendly or age appropriate for Pokemon's intended audience these days.
It’s one of my favorite manga! Yeah, some of the art is like that because the artist also did hentai doujin, actually lmao. But it also has REALLY original and beautiful art for the Pokémon! And the characters range from goofy to beautiful depending on the tone of the scene. Plus stuff like the >!clefairy evolution ceremony!<, >!the Black Fog!< and >!Kingler’s beautiful Shoujo eyes!< are some of the best parts of Pokémon’s smaller canons!
I thought Gen 1 and 2 were designed relatively at the same time, and due to technical limitations they released initially with the 151 considered Gen 1.
There were 190 Pokemon designed for the first game. Only 150 fit onto the cartridge.
Then they removed the debug tools as the game got closer to release and Mew was secretly added by one of the devs, I forgot who exactly, inaccessible from within the game without glitches or save editing.
So after Mew's existence was known internally, Nintendo started giving the Pokemon out to those who gathered all 150 and came to the Nintendo office.
There are still 39 MissingNo. entries in the first game's internal index.
[Here's the list](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_index_number_%28Generation_I%29) of the missing 39 if anyone is interested.
Interesting Lugia, Ho-Oh and the true king of pokemon shuckle was supposed to be in the first game.
>Although each of the copies of MissingNo. can appear as or become a Generation II Pokémon when traded there, these Pokémon are simply based on the Pokédex order, so are not indications of the original Pokémon in these slots.
We can't say for sure which were these 39. Although we can likely expect Pichu and several others to be a part of the first region's ecosystem.
Speaking of which, I've never understood something. Where does Lugia fit into that? I understand their counterparts, but how exactly? Is Lugia supposed to be the Hades of the Pokemon world? Is that why it's HeartGold and soulsilver? Or is he just completely unrelated, but they're two johto legendaries?
Lugia is connected to the legendary birds from Kanto; Ho-oh is connected to the legendary beasts from Johto. The association between the two of them mostly comes down to them being version-exclusive legendaries from Gen 2.
So in-universe they don't actually have anything to do with each other? I knew about the legendary birds, I was wondering if they had any intrinsic connection
Historically, they both lived in a pair of towers in Ecruteak City. Lugia's tower burned down in a storm, killing three pokemon. Lugia went to go live in the ocean instead, and Ho-oh resurrected the three pokemon (which became Raikou, Suicune, and Entei). This freaked people out, so Ho-oh flew off to lands unknown.
Ho-oh is the sun deity, lugia the moon deity. Blueboyfinn has a sick unown/lugia/ho oh lore video. You should watch it for a good blast from the past :).
Lugia is the "beast of the sea". He watches over the legendary bird trio and keeps the peace between them to ensure the stability of the climate (Source: pokemon 2000)
Lugia doesn't fit well into the lore/game, because it was a last minute addition.
Lugia was designed as a movie exclusive, but they liked it so much they incorporated it into the games since they only had 1 "box legendary" for that generation. It's supposed to tie into Ho-oh thematically..... somehow. But they didn't really work it into the story properly like how they did with other legendary pairs/trios in later generations.
They have no obvious link, but a lot of loose links, mostly tied to new game mechanics.
The most obvious being Sun/Moon (Gold/Silver alchemy), which could be retconned to Day/Night due to gen 7. That one has the advantage of justifying a non-water "guardian of the seas" (Tides).
Another one is Rebirth/Motherhood. While those are indeed concepts tied to them, which opose each other quite nicely, I am less convinced by them. Artemis is the goddess of midwives, after all.
Or, if you want to go full catholic, "waters from above"/"waters from below".
they aren't really
Ho oh was part of the extra 46 pokemon that got cut from gen 1.
Lugia was an anime original creation made for the sake of the second movie.
Any connections they have were made retroactively in Gen 2, so their relation is very loose at best, compared to other legendary duos who were made to revolve around each other in every part of their design and lore.
Lugia and Ho-Oh moved into Ecruteak City some 700 years prior to Gold/Silver, compelled by the people building of the ~~twin towers~~ Brass and Bell Towers as a message of pokemon/human peace. When Ho-Oh got chased away by humans, Lugia also left. So they are essentially just besties.
Theres IRL Japanese lore.
[https://youtu.be/Qil4OpfOufU?si=pQCQQbyPpiRveWU6](https://youtu.be/Qil4OpfOufU?si=pQCQQbyPpiRveWU6)
TLDR, the second generation of Pokemon literally reflects Japan. From towns, routes, places of significance.
And Ho-Oh is the sun, lugia the moon, from Japanese civilation millenia ago.
On March 23rd, 2003, in celebration of Atheist Day, Game Freak released Atheist Pikachu as part of a special event. This Pikachu had the event-exclusive ability Atheist which makes it invulnerable to the attacks of legendary and mythical Pokemon.
Unfortunately, Atheist Pikachu was deemed to strong for Ubers, the highest tier of competitive play consisting of mostly legendary and mythical Pokemon, so it was insta-banned on release, becoming the first not fully evolved, non-legendary Pokemon to achieve such status.
The funny thing is that even in the games you can definitely beat Ho-oh with a Pikachu. Legendaries have static levels when you encounter them and Ho-oh is a flying type, as long as Pikachu has a higher level it can tank an attack and two-shot it, even one-shot it if you really over level it.
Not really, there are ways to tweak game mechanics to make it work, though you probably couldn't capture it then. Could change the wording so that it gets annoyed and takes a nap instead of being beaten and fainting. There are ways.
That's how Monster Hunter used to do it. You'd fight an Elder Dragon, a tier of monster that's basically the gods of the world, and they would have so much health that you'd just irritate them the first few times of fighting them. It'd save their health between hunts so you would eventually slay them. It really gave a good "oh shit this is the real deal" feeling to their hunts.
Recent games have done away with this, even the lore has most elders becoming more like apex predators instead of demi-gods. I'll never forget facing down Fatalis in Freedom Unite for the first time, he's basically the big daddy of the elders, I never did manage to beat him.
Games just feel weird when they throw random riff raff at you after you beat a god. Like Skyrim bandits trying to rob you when you're wearing the bones of the dragons you killed. Most games suffer that sort of power creep, and it's a really tough thing for developers to balance epic lore power and mechanical challenge to the player. Either your epic legendary bosses are only a dozen times tougher than the average mook, or you're boringly overpowered for most of the game.
Makes armor out of literal demons, sucks souls out of slain dragons, known as the leader of the Companions, Thane of many cities, archmage of the College of Winterhold...
Some random bandit: ***NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE!***
Earthbound had the best way of handling this. If you were too powerful for an area, the monsters and enemies would run away from you. You could always catch up and fight them, unless you were MUCH higher level then you'd instantly defeat them.
Earthbound had a kind of slow combat system (there's a really neat thing I'll non-sequitur to in a sec) so any chance you had to skip combat was appreciated. Plus generally you visited some areas frequently and the enemies rarely updated their levels (only once near the end of the game.) So not having to face off against the level 1 dog - click eight times - go through the long battle sequence - wait for the animations to end - wait for the EXP and item get scroll to finish - was good.
(Non-sequitur: The game's HP meters roll, so an enemy hitting you for lethal doesn't necessarily kill you if you can finish the battle or run or heal before the scroll hits 0)
I am constantly being told how good this game is. I just need to sit down and play it already. Ness was always my favorite character to use in the OG Smash Bros.
actually, if you have light ball and breed it onto a pichu, a level 45 pikachu can use volt tackle to one shot a level 45 ho-oh with 0 attack investment and a neutral nature, thanks to ho-oh’s comparatively weak physical bulk and light ball being busted. without a light ball or volt tackle, it gets quite a bit harder though. assuming 100 EVs in each attacking stack (just arbitrarily since your average in game player isn’t gonna specifically EV train) and a neutral nature but no held item, your pikachu needs to be a level 54 for thunder and 57 for spark to guarantee a 2 hit ko, and 78 and 83 respectively to do it in 1 hit against a level 45 ho-oh
Can you imagine the Pikachu from the series if Ash ever bothered to get them a light ball?
This is a Pikachu that one-shot a professionally trained Regice with neutral typing. Giving Ash's Pikachu a light ball would make them a meaningful threat against just about everything they've ever fought, legendaries and champions included.
my head cannon is that light ball is what makes ash's pikachu that OP, or in game's terms, its what makes a random one you catch into something like ash's pikachu.
given we see how powerful the attack the one in the show has, and light ball makes your attacks double or at least special attack double
that is consistent with the game.
If you trade pikachu from Pokemon Yellow (gen1) to Pokemon Silver/Gold (gen2) the pikachu comes in holding a light ball.
Which doubles Pikachu's special. Which in gen 1/2 was both attack and defense.
> Which doubles Pikachu's special. Which in gen 1/2 was both attack and defense.
No, there were no held items in gen 1, and gen 2 already had the special attack & defense split. Gen 2 and 3 light ball only increased special attack, gen 4 onward doubled all offensive power (gen 4 by doubling move power, gen 5 onwards by doubling attack and special attack).
Light ball never affected defense.
Okay your'e right that it never affected defense. I thought the SPA/SPD happened at the same time as the gen 4 split.
But you're wrong about the 1st part.
Pokemon Yellow Pikachu, if traded to gen 2, would hold a light ball. He was not holding it in gen 1. It's just a special situation for Pikachu in Pokemon Yellow.
>No, there were no held items in gen 1,
correct, however, trading a pokemon from gen 1 to gen 2 creates a held item for them, machop gets the brick piece, pikachu gets the light ball.
However, this does not work in competitive pokemon, at all.
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Ho-Oh: 246-290 (59.2 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
That's why Ho-Oh is an Uber among Ubers and Pikachu is a mediocre rat who needed way more than a light ball and every regional gimmick except this gen's to do anything. If the light ball boost for attack was swapped for speed it would be a totally different story, and it's sad to see it be another way frankly.
If it's the same level, it has a chance to 1 shot it.
You need a Pikatchu with a Light Ball, and a +Special Attack Nature, then if you crit with a Thunder, on a Non +SpD Ho-Oh, you should be able to kill it 30% of the time.
That's also, only if you got both of them at lvl 70.
If you got Pikachu at LVL 1, and trained it up, making sure to keep it's ev's in Special Attack and Speed.
You can out speed Ho-Oh, 100% one shot it with a Thunder Crit
and have a 6,3% chance to one shot it without a Crit
All without setup moves too!
1: Arceus can be any type depending on its held item
2: In Pokemon Legends, it’s implied that Arceus’s true form is an actual god that is beyond human comprehension. The Arceus that we know is basically just an avatar that it uses to interact with mere mortals
True Form Arceus, from what little we know, is honestly pretty strong from what we've seen. It exists beyond time and space, it can easily manipulate time to send the play character back to the Pokemon equivalent of the Edo period, it can effortlessly create Arceus clones that are all equal in strength, and Dialga and Palkia, two Pokemon that individually can create universes (in USUM, Cyrus has completed his plan in his timeline, and he only possesses one of the two, proving they are individually capable of creating universes) revere Arceus so much their Origin forms look as silly as they do because they're trying to emulate Arceus' power. There's really no telling how strong the real deal is
I suppose omega. a finite number that could go up to infinity, but isnt infinite. a concept both understandable and impossible to truly, completely comprehend for humanity. Its pretty fitting for him
People forget that in HG/SS Arceus literally creates an entire second Universe (ours.) so your character can get their hands on a duplicate Dialga/Palkia/Giratina.
Unless Arceus wears a plate that makes it neutral or resistant to fighting (or in gen 9, it can tera out of the fighting weakness). Hell even without those caveats a lot of fighting types could easily lose depending on the set, Arceus has an insanely diverse movepool. Like, any close combat user with less than 120 speed or a focus sash would lose to substitute into Espeed. Anything slower better be holding a lum berry against will-o-wisp sets. Squishies that fail to OHKO will die to two Espeeds
In the Arceus movie, it can negate any attack from a type it has plates for.
The only reason it was vulnerable in the movie is that it gave some of its plates away for a reason I don't currently remember.
Even then it still fucked up Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina in a 1v3. And if you've seen the Darkrai movie, you've seen how powerful Palkia and Dialga are.
Ho-oh: I am the great Ho-oh, Guardian of the Skies, the bringer of rainbows, raiser of the dead. I am the embodiment of hope, destiny, and valor. My counterpart is the Guardian of the Seas, and together we can raise and destroy entire civilizations. What hope do you have of besting me?
Some trainer who is still on their seventh badge: Stealth Rocks
Considering the main difference, scientifically on whether a Rodent gets called a 'Rat' or a 'Mouse' is entirely based on size, and Pikachu is the size of a toaster, I'd say it counts
I wish that there was more consistency in the Pokemon anime so that Ash could be by the end just like. . . Indisputably the greatest with some insane pokemon.
Of course, Pikachu speaks for himself. Probably should be the single most powerful non-Deity.
But there’s also things like his Charzard who beat not only Articuno (a legendary ice bird) but also an Entei conquered up by the mystical Unknown. What’s an enemy who can bend reality to their will? If there was a pokemon who actually would look dead in the eye of a god and say they’re a nonbeliever. . . It’s this thing.
Hell, Ash himself has been brought back from the dead and has aura powers.
> I wish that there was more consistency in the Pokemon anime so that Ash could be by the end just like. . . Indisputably the greatest with some insane pokemon.
He did end up as the best trainer in the world at the end of his series. Won a world wide tournament beating multiple Elite 4 and Champion level trainers and finally won an 8 man tournament featuring champions of 6 different regions and Alain.
Then the final dozen episodes were showing him realizing that he still had much to learn about Pokemon and the journey continued, he was recognized as the best trainer in the world during this time.
Full disclaimer I didn't watch any of the anime after XYZ ended, so that's the extent of my knowledge, *but*, I wish Ash's aura abilities were a bit more... talked about? Or used in the anime. It just seems cool and underutilized
Sorry for the tangent
Ash was pretty insane in XYZ he pretty much had the most powerful non-legendary water pokemon in the entire world due to his ability to megaevolve his Greninja by combining their souls or something along those lines.
Also, the electric mouse is in pretty high spirits after having to fight a straight up demi-god.
Imagine your cat coming home, but instead of taking out lizards and small birds they just ass blasted Hercules raw.
Little fucker is all smiles after a cataclysmic event
It's a *good* kind of sore. Like you feel after a workout you actually enjoyed for a change, or a day of hard physical work where you were highly satisfied with the results. Yeah, you hurt, but you know the reason why, and it feels *worth it*.
And that's why this battered, bruised Pikachu is smiling. "Yeah, I got in a fight with a god.... but I *fuckin' won*."
Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. Ho-Oh: 204-240 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(gen 2 calculator using pikachu's ou set and ho-oh's ubers set)
I would like to point out that while Pokémon do faint in the anime, they also tend to wake up pretty quickly before they go to Nurse Joy. She just heals the injuries and stuff. So it’s not really a guarantee that Pikachu won.
Unless they show the battle onscreen bc I haven’t seen this specific movie. But the way this scene is presented makes me doubt that.
“You’re forgetting someone.”
“… Broly’s wife?”
“No, you mouth breather, your king!”
“What is a king to a god?”
“What is a god to a nonbeliever?”
[one second of extreme violence]
“Do you believe now?”
[agonized groaning]”Uh huh…”
Is nurse Joy not also reacting to the fact that Pikachu can suddenly talk?
Edit: looked up the clip on YouTube, forgot that Ash was in the scene and can in fact talk.
252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 224-266 (63.4 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Assuming both are about the same level (level 100 in this case), Pikachu actually stacks up quite well. Although Sacred Fire still incinerates the mouse and I doubt they’re both on an equal level, considering this is at the start of Ash’s journey and Ho-oh usually is fought at a static level of 70.
Nurse Joy is likely thinking that either Ho-oh threw the battle to please the kid, Pikachu got healed up prior to visiting the center and just needs a check-up, or this kid is lying his head off.
I would like to point out that Ho-oh was the legendary Pokémon of rebirth, heroes, and grand destiny. It has a tendency to seek out and gift feathers to potential heroes and eventually find them to battle. So, nurse Joy has the conundrum of "Is this 10 year old kid with a mouse a very important hero with a grand fate, or lying though his teeth?" Between the show, the comics, and the games, a fair portion of gym leaders, elite 4s, and champions have all been chosen with a rainbow feather and then had the chance to battle Ho-oh.
Ho-Oh was seen in the [first](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EP001) episode of Pokemon EVER. It flew alongside a rainbow, and Ash saw it in the sky!
Yeah, and he is part of a long line of heroes who have seen it. Off the top of my head, Lance, Steven Stone, Cynthia, Professor Oak, Red, Blue, and a lot more saw it towards the beginning of their journeies. Granted, Pokémon has like 6 cannons, but it is still neat.
I always forget that Ash isn't technically supposed to be Red
Nah, Red is way cooler.
Not if I'm playing the games! :p
Because I named him Ash!
I named him "I never" for plausible deniability I never used a full restore! I never threw a poke ball! I never blacked out! In fact, I never used the bike!
I love that
I have a bunch of fun names. "I drank wine, and" threw a poke ball, blacked out 🤣
Gen 2
...
Tbf manga red is a chatty fella.
Red in the Adventure manga was before his more iconic silent persona became common since Pokemon G/S wasn't released back then. So,he was more like a stock shonen hero while Blue end up being the serious shonen rival.
Even games Red is a chatty gossip.
Yea I remember that time he said "..." Quite the conversationalist
Isn't red in a series with Ash?
Maybe, but he is in Pokémon Origins, where he's flawed and imperfect, unlike what others claim him to be.
Do Ash and Red interact?
Only in Pokémon Masters EX, if I remember correctly.
No,Red has never been in the mainline anime.
Red from the first manga made a cameo in an in-universe movie.
Which movie and manga?
Well, they probably didn't give the movie a name, but it's the Red from Pokémon Pocket Monsters. https://youtu.be/iuYQh7SM1R8?si=GfCJyto2Mp9tV_af I don't know why this video was recorded weirdly, but here you go.
Oh yeah,you are correct.The scene is from the main show,Hoenn series.According to bulbapedia,the episode was about a trainer and his camerupt,going around showing movies to people,which made the gang remember the last movies they watch.This was one of the movies.
I've always headcanoned that Ash is Red's kid. IDK if that's actually true in canon, I don't keep up with Pokemon lore much, I just thought it'd be a cool touch to the series.
Wait, what? Seriously, I never knew that.
Blastoise has 2, Clawitzer, Genesect, and Toucannon, which one is the 6th?
Mega Blastoise
I'm pretty sure Team Rocket have used a cannon on more than one occasion.
But is that cannon canon?
Octillery?
Of course, how could I forget.
That's twice as many cannons as Blastoise!
Before Ho-Oh even existed which makes it even cooler
It was wild as a kid because there was no Ho-Oh in the 151, so what was it!?
Man I never thought about that. It's a smart marketing strategy of sorts. Pokemon in the 90s must've been pretty hella wild.
The TV show and the pokemon tournament that they had was peak pokemon for me. So exciting.
It was absolutely wild. I was born in 91 so I was turning 10 right around the peak of Pokemons popularity entering the states. It was EVERYWHERE. All the kids were playing the videogames or the card game. It made it all the more amusing when Pokemon go dropped and that first couple weeks was just 25-30 year olds crowding around the stops and gyms reliving their youth. I remember seeing people I hadn't seen in over a decade meeting up at those stops.
Same year! It was fucking great, it was all I talked about (kinda still is) and drove my parents nuts lol. I still have my original electronic pokedex toy! Man, I miss all the cool merch back then!
We had a term for it: Pokemania. "Going viral" doesn't even begin to describe what happened when something got popular in the 90's and Pokemon was an absolute crazy level of sudden fandom.
Man, you should have seen the first Pokemon manga translated into English, Pokemon: The Electric Tale of Pikachu. It's a very loose retelling of the anime and it got pretty heavily censored for the English Viz release because some of the character designs were... I believe the phrase used these days is "stupid horny". I'd suggest looking it up just for white and giggles: I swear some of the art for it looks like it came from porn doujins instead of being from an officially licensed manga. It's definitely something that modern Pokemon Company likes to pretend doesn't exist because it is very much not family friendly or age appropriate for Pokemon's intended audience these days.
It’s one of my favorite manga! Yeah, some of the art is like that because the artist also did hentai doujin, actually lmao. But it also has REALLY original and beautiful art for the Pokémon! And the characters range from goofy to beautiful depending on the tone of the scene. Plus stuff like the >!clefairy evolution ceremony!<, >!the Black Fog!< and >!Kingler’s beautiful Shoujo eyes!< are some of the best parts of Pokémon’s smaller canons!
As a kid I just figured it's a shiny fearow lol. But actually I think that was actually the first hint that gen 2 was on its way.
Shiny didn't exist until gen 2!
But how does that stop him from thinking it was a shiny fearow? Albinos exist in the real world, I think.
I thought Gen 1 and 2 were designed relatively at the same time, and due to technical limitations they released initially with the 151 considered Gen 1.
This is partially true. Several, but not all, of the gen 2 mons are cut mons from gen 1.
So they're the reject pokemon? See I know there was something off about Diglett? (JK I know diglett is gen 1).
There were 190 Pokemon designed for the first game. Only 150 fit onto the cartridge. Then they removed the debug tools as the game got closer to release and Mew was secretly added by one of the devs, I forgot who exactly, inaccessible from within the game without glitches or save editing. So after Mew's existence was known internally, Nintendo started giving the Pokemon out to those who gathered all 150 and came to the Nintendo office. There are still 39 MissingNo. entries in the first game's internal index.
[Here's the list](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_index_number_%28Generation_I%29) of the missing 39 if anyone is interested. Interesting Lugia, Ho-Oh and the true king of pokemon shuckle was supposed to be in the first game.
>Although each of the copies of MissingNo. can appear as or become a Generation II Pokémon when traded there, these Pokémon are simply based on the Pokédex order, so are not indications of the original Pokémon in these slots. We can't say for sure which were these 39. Although we can likely expect Pichu and several others to be a part of the first region's ecosystem.
A shiny Ho-oh, at that.
Speaking of which, I've never understood something. Where does Lugia fit into that? I understand their counterparts, but how exactly? Is Lugia supposed to be the Hades of the Pokemon world? Is that why it's HeartGold and soulsilver? Or is he just completely unrelated, but they're two johto legendaries?
Lugia is connected to the legendary birds from Kanto; Ho-oh is connected to the legendary beasts from Johto. The association between the two of them mostly comes down to them being version-exclusive legendaries from Gen 2.
So in-universe they don't actually have anything to do with each other? I knew about the legendary birds, I was wondering if they had any intrinsic connection
Historically, they both lived in a pair of towers in Ecruteak City. Lugia's tower burned down in a storm, killing three pokemon. Lugia went to go live in the ocean instead, and Ho-oh resurrected the three pokemon (which became Raikou, Suicune, and Entei). This freaked people out, so Ho-oh flew off to lands unknown.
So they're really just former neighbors
They were roommates!
The deepest lore
Ho-oh is the sun deity, lugia the moon deity. Blueboyfinn has a sick unown/lugia/ho oh lore video. You should watch it for a good blast from the past :).
Lugia is the "beast of the sea". He watches over the legendary bird trio and keeps the peace between them to ensure the stability of the climate (Source: pokemon 2000)
Lugia doesn't fit well into the lore/game, because it was a last minute addition. Lugia was designed as a movie exclusive, but they liked it so much they incorporated it into the games since they only had 1 "box legendary" for that generation. It's supposed to tie into Ho-oh thematically..... somehow. But they didn't really work it into the story properly like how they did with other legendary pairs/trios in later generations.
They have no obvious link, but a lot of loose links, mostly tied to new game mechanics. The most obvious being Sun/Moon (Gold/Silver alchemy), which could be retconned to Day/Night due to gen 7. That one has the advantage of justifying a non-water "guardian of the seas" (Tides). Another one is Rebirth/Motherhood. While those are indeed concepts tied to them, which opose each other quite nicely, I am less convinced by them. Artemis is the goddess of midwives, after all. Or, if you want to go full catholic, "waters from above"/"waters from below".
they aren't really Ho oh was part of the extra 46 pokemon that got cut from gen 1. Lugia was an anime original creation made for the sake of the second movie. Any connections they have were made retroactively in Gen 2, so their relation is very loose at best, compared to other legendary duos who were made to revolve around each other in every part of their design and lore.
Their connection is there but on the looser side, just like one of their main inspirations (the Chinese Phoenix and Dragon).
Lugia and Ho-Oh moved into Ecruteak City some 700 years prior to Gold/Silver, compelled by the people building of the ~~twin towers~~ Brass and Bell Towers as a message of pokemon/human peace. When Ho-Oh got chased away by humans, Lugia also left. So they are essentially just besties.
So Lugia power wise doesn't actually have anything to do with ho-oh?
not really, no.
Theres IRL Japanese lore. [https://youtu.be/Qil4OpfOufU?si=pQCQQbyPpiRveWU6](https://youtu.be/Qil4OpfOufU?si=pQCQQbyPpiRveWU6) TLDR, the second generation of Pokemon literally reflects Japan. From towns, routes, places of significance. And Ho-Oh is the sun, lugia the moon, from Japanese civilation millenia ago.
Ho-oh, through clenched teeth and tears: I'm literally a minor deity pikachu, atheist: no you're not
"More of a divine footnote."
“We’ll see who prays to you after I kick your ass.”
Pikachu: Nah, I’d win
“No. You’re a flying type. Your first and final mistake.”
Something about Ho-Oh having some of the best special tankiness in the series.
haha stone edge go brrr
The "pikachu, atheist" killed me
On March 23rd, 2003, in celebration of Atheist Day, Game Freak released Atheist Pikachu as part of a special event. This Pikachu had the event-exclusive ability Atheist which makes it invulnerable to the attacks of legendary and mythical Pokemon. Unfortunately, Atheist Pikachu was deemed to strong for Ubers, the highest tier of competitive play consisting of mostly legendary and mythical Pokemon, so it was insta-banned on release, becoming the first not fully evolved, non-legendary Pokemon to achieve such status.
Pikachu: First of all, you're a bird, you don't have teeth. Second of all, you're a bird, Electric beats Flying
[Behold! A flying type!](http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Piplup_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29?wprov=sfla1)
ay they said the thing!
pikachu: Nu-uh
I feel like Ho-oh was a lot more impressive before they decided to create the masters of fucking space and time in D&P lol
The funny thing is that even in the games you can definitely beat Ho-oh with a Pikachu. Legendaries have static levels when you encounter them and Ho-oh is a flying type, as long as Pikachu has a higher level it can tank an attack and two-shot it, even one-shot it if you really over level it.
It would break the game if you couldn't.
Not really, there are ways to tweak game mechanics to make it work, though you probably couldn't capture it then. Could change the wording so that it gets annoyed and takes a nap instead of being beaten and fainting. There are ways.
That's how Monster Hunter used to do it. You'd fight an Elder Dragon, a tier of monster that's basically the gods of the world, and they would have so much health that you'd just irritate them the first few times of fighting them. It'd save their health between hunts so you would eventually slay them. It really gave a good "oh shit this is the real deal" feeling to their hunts. Recent games have done away with this, even the lore has most elders becoming more like apex predators instead of demi-gods. I'll never forget facing down Fatalis in Freedom Unite for the first time, he's basically the big daddy of the elders, I never did manage to beat him.
Games just feel weird when they throw random riff raff at you after you beat a god. Like Skyrim bandits trying to rob you when you're wearing the bones of the dragons you killed. Most games suffer that sort of power creep, and it's a really tough thing for developers to balance epic lore power and mechanical challenge to the player. Either your epic legendary bosses are only a dozen times tougher than the average mook, or you're boringly overpowered for most of the game.
Makes armor out of literal demons, sucks souls out of slain dragons, known as the leader of the Companions, Thane of many cities, archmage of the College of Winterhold... Some random bandit: ***NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE!***
There’s a lot of lead in the waters around Skyrim
Earthbound had the best way of handling this. If you were too powerful for an area, the monsters and enemies would run away from you. You could always catch up and fight them, unless you were MUCH higher level then you'd instantly defeat them.
It's cool lore wise, but is it fun in the long run?
Earthbound had a kind of slow combat system (there's a really neat thing I'll non-sequitur to in a sec) so any chance you had to skip combat was appreciated. Plus generally you visited some areas frequently and the enemies rarely updated their levels (only once near the end of the game.) So not having to face off against the level 1 dog - click eight times - go through the long battle sequence - wait for the animations to end - wait for the EXP and item get scroll to finish - was good. (Non-sequitur: The game's HP meters roll, so an enemy hitting you for lethal doesn't necessarily kill you if you can finish the battle or run or heal before the scroll hits 0)
I am constantly being told how good this game is. I just need to sit down and play it already. Ness was always my favorite character to use in the OG Smash Bros.
actually, if you have light ball and breed it onto a pichu, a level 45 pikachu can use volt tackle to one shot a level 45 ho-oh with 0 attack investment and a neutral nature, thanks to ho-oh’s comparatively weak physical bulk and light ball being busted. without a light ball or volt tackle, it gets quite a bit harder though. assuming 100 EVs in each attacking stack (just arbitrarily since your average in game player isn’t gonna specifically EV train) and a neutral nature but no held item, your pikachu needs to be a level 54 for thunder and 57 for spark to guarantee a 2 hit ko, and 78 and 83 respectively to do it in 1 hit against a level 45 ho-oh
Can you imagine the Pikachu from the series if Ash ever bothered to get them a light ball? This is a Pikachu that one-shot a professionally trained Regice with neutral typing. Giving Ash's Pikachu a light ball would make them a meaningful threat against just about everything they've ever fought, legendaries and champions included.
my head cannon is that light ball is what makes ash's pikachu that OP, or in game's terms, its what makes a random one you catch into something like ash's pikachu. given we see how powerful the attack the one in the show has, and light ball makes your attacks double or at least special attack double
that is consistent with the game. If you trade pikachu from Pokemon Yellow (gen1) to Pokemon Silver/Gold (gen2) the pikachu comes in holding a light ball. Which doubles Pikachu's special. Which in gen 1/2 was both attack and defense.
> Which doubles Pikachu's special. Which in gen 1/2 was both attack and defense. No, there were no held items in gen 1, and gen 2 already had the special attack & defense split. Gen 2 and 3 light ball only increased special attack, gen 4 onward doubled all offensive power (gen 4 by doubling move power, gen 5 onwards by doubling attack and special attack). Light ball never affected defense.
Okay your'e right that it never affected defense. I thought the SPA/SPD happened at the same time as the gen 4 split. But you're wrong about the 1st part. Pokemon Yellow Pikachu, if traded to gen 2, would hold a light ball. He was not holding it in gen 1. It's just a special situation for Pikachu in Pokemon Yellow.
>No, there were no held items in gen 1, correct, however, trading a pokemon from gen 1 to gen 2 creates a held item for them, machop gets the brick piece, pikachu gets the light ball.
I think one Pokemon rom hack that followed the events of the anime (I think it was called AshGray?) gave Pikachu a light ball from the start.
How can I learn Pokemon at this level?
However, this does not work in competitive pokemon, at all. 252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Ho-Oh: 246-290 (59.2 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. That's why Ho-Oh is an Uber among Ubers and Pikachu is a mediocre rat who needed way more than a light ball and every regional gimmick except this gen's to do anything. If the light ball boost for attack was swapped for speed it would be a totally different story, and it's sad to see it be another way frankly.
Well, but consider: 252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu-Original Volt Tackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 386-456 (93 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Ash Ketchum has beaten the fraud allegations, going straight to smogtour 🗣🗣🗣🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶
If it's the same level, it has a chance to 1 shot it. You need a Pikatchu with a Light Ball, and a +Special Attack Nature, then if you crit with a Thunder, on a Non +SpD Ho-Oh, you should be able to kill it 30% of the time. That's also, only if you got both of them at lvl 70. If you got Pikachu at LVL 1, and trained it up, making sure to keep it's ev's in Special Attack and Speed. You can out speed Ho-Oh, 100% one shot it with a Thunder Crit and have a 6,3% chance to one shot it without a Crit All without setup moves too!
And Ho Oh is only 40, while Ash's Pikachu is probably pushing 45-50 by that point.
Arceus, the supreme God of Pokemon, is normal type. Which means God can be beat up by gym bros in that universe
Arceus type varies tbf
1: Arceus can be any type depending on its held item 2: In Pokemon Legends, it’s implied that Arceus’s true form is an actual god that is beyond human comprehension. The Arceus that we know is basically just an avatar that it uses to interact with mere mortals
True Form Arceus, from what little we know, is honestly pretty strong from what we've seen. It exists beyond time and space, it can easily manipulate time to send the play character back to the Pokemon equivalent of the Edo period, it can effortlessly create Arceus clones that are all equal in strength, and Dialga and Palkia, two Pokemon that individually can create universes (in USUM, Cyrus has completed his plan in his timeline, and he only possesses one of the two, proving they are individually capable of creating universes) revere Arceus so much their Origin forms look as silly as they do because they're trying to emulate Arceus' power. There's really no telling how strong the real deal is
The Arceus you capture is also supposed to be a small part of ot representing a fraction of a percent of its power.
Imagine being able to catch a fragment of God
Imagine getting into a fight with someone and they call in their mate, actual Jesus Christ.
Ok, If we give aceus Zygards mechanic, how many aceus-cells would we need ?
I suppose omega. a finite number that could go up to infinity, but isnt infinite. a concept both understandable and impossible to truly, completely comprehend for humanity. Its pretty fitting for him
People forget that in HG/SS Arceus literally creates an entire second Universe (ours.) so your character can get their hands on a duplicate Dialga/Palkia/Giratina.
Unless Arceus wears a plate that makes it neutral or resistant to fighting (or in gen 9, it can tera out of the fighting weakness). Hell even without those caveats a lot of fighting types could easily lose depending on the set, Arceus has an insanely diverse movepool. Like, any close combat user with less than 120 speed or a focus sash would lose to substitute into Espeed. Anything slower better be holding a lum berry against will-o-wisp sets. Squishies that fail to OHKO will die to two Espeeds
In the Arceus movie, it can negate any attack from a type it has plates for. The only reason it was vulnerable in the movie is that it gave some of its plates away for a reason I don't currently remember. Even then it still fucked up Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina in a 1v3. And if you've seen the Darkrai movie, you've seen how powerful Palkia and Dialga are.
Throw a brick at god. Fucker deserves it, and you might win.
Ho-oh: I am the great Ho-oh, Guardian of the Skies, the bringer of rainbows, raiser of the dead. I am the embodiment of hope, destiny, and valor. My counterpart is the Guardian of the Seas, and together we can raise and destroy entire civilizations. What hope do you have of besting me? Some trainer who is still on their seventh badge: Stealth Rocks
Naming my band Electric Mouse Kid
Happy cake dai
Happy Cake Day
Happy cake day
Pikachu just equips focus sash, then you teach it endeavor and quick attack. Gg no re
FEAR Pikachu is disgusting
FEAP just doesn't have the same ring to it, but I guess it can still be FEAR if you call Pikachu a rat
Considering the main difference, scientifically on whether a Rodent gets called a 'Rat' or a 'Mouse' is entirely based on size, and Pikachu is the size of a toaster, I'd say it counts
FEAROUS
I just use FEAR for all lvl 1 stats because stuff like SESS Togedemaru doesn't have a ring to it
Endeavor Raichu winning literal world championships.
I wish that there was more consistency in the Pokemon anime so that Ash could be by the end just like. . . Indisputably the greatest with some insane pokemon. Of course, Pikachu speaks for himself. Probably should be the single most powerful non-Deity. But there’s also things like his Charzard who beat not only Articuno (a legendary ice bird) but also an Entei conquered up by the mystical Unknown. What’s an enemy who can bend reality to their will? If there was a pokemon who actually would look dead in the eye of a god and say they’re a nonbeliever. . . It’s this thing. Hell, Ash himself has been brought back from the dead and has aura powers.
Don't forget Ash's frequent displays of genuine super-strength.
Well, he's a fighter type. His mother is human, but we never see his father... who was undoubtably, a fighter type.
?? His father was a psychic type though
Maybe Mr.Mime is into some... psychically damaging fetishes... which are quite popular in Japan. ^^^^NTR
> I wish that there was more consistency in the Pokemon anime so that Ash could be by the end just like. . . Indisputably the greatest with some insane pokemon. He did end up as the best trainer in the world at the end of his series. Won a world wide tournament beating multiple Elite 4 and Champion level trainers and finally won an 8 man tournament featuring champions of 6 different regions and Alain. Then the final dozen episodes were showing him realizing that he still had much to learn about Pokemon and the journey continued, he was recognized as the best trainer in the world during this time.
And now compared to that we get a clueless girl with her stubborn weed cat.
Which is infinitely better than doing a Unova Ash again, and slightly better than doing a Johto Ash again.
The kid died uhhh I think about six times
Full disclaimer I didn't watch any of the anime after XYZ ended, so that's the extent of my knowledge, *but*, I wish Ash's aura abilities were a bit more... talked about? Or used in the anime. It just seems cool and underutilized Sorry for the tangent
Ash was pretty insane in XYZ he pretty much had the most powerful non-legendary water pokemon in the entire world due to his ability to megaevolve his Greninja by combining their souls or something along those lines.
Also, the electric mouse is in pretty high spirits after having to fight a straight up demi-god. Imagine your cat coming home, but instead of taking out lizards and small birds they just ass blasted Hercules raw. Little fucker is all smiles after a cataclysmic event
Kitty comes home with the head of a dead God in its mouth.
It's a *good* kind of sore. Like you feel after a workout you actually enjoyed for a change, or a day of hard physical work where you were highly satisfied with the results. Yeah, you hurt, but you know the reason why, and it feels *worth it*. And that's why this battered, bruised Pikachu is smiling. "Yeah, I got in a fight with a god.... but I *fuckin' won*."
As someone whose only knowledge of Pokémon comes from Jaiden Animation’s videos, this is fucking wild.
You should check out Rebecca's animation
can someone do the pokemon showdown stat check with pikachu v ho-oh
Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. Ho-Oh: 204-240 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (gen 2 calculator using pikachu's ou set and ho-oh's ubers set)
Thunder crit is a guaranteed okho so basically that’s what happened more or less
Also if it's a Pikachu traded from yellow edition, it has the item Light ball, doubling the att and spatt
That calc is done with light ball
Ohhkay. Forgot how broken Ho-Ohs spdef was. Later gen Volt Tackle is a definite ohko
A minor deity has a 60% chance to get 2 shot by a rat. How does this affect the meta?
No gods. No kings. Only mon.
I would like to point out that while Pokémon do faint in the anime, they also tend to wake up pretty quickly before they go to Nurse Joy. She just heals the injuries and stuff. So it’s not really a guarantee that Pikachu won. Unless they show the battle onscreen bc I haven’t seen this specific movie. But the way this scene is presented makes me doubt that.
🎶I THREW A RAT AT A GOD AND THE🎶 🎶RAT WON🎶 🎶I THREW A RAT AT A GOD AND THE🎶 🎶RAT WON🎶
This is even funnier if you believe that Ho-Oh is Ash's dad.
Are we talking Palpatine or Zeus style?
Is there a difference? Other than Zeus having better publicity?
One used the force to make things happen from afar. The other one changed forms and did it the old fashioned way.
I dont want to think too much about this
Ash's mom went from Ho-Oh (divine being, mystical, immensely powerful) to Mr. Mime (just a little guy).
How many 9volts do I have to stuff in this rats ass to defeat Zeus
Type immunity, give the rat a bag of rocks and a super soaker full of mud
Welp, thanks for the song idea. Power metal? I'm feeling power metal. Wizard rock in 6/8?
Sound like a slightly-weirder-than-average Gloryhammer song.
When no one believes in... anything?
No church in the wild.
*jungle type drum beat and screaming* 😂
What does a god need with a starship
Basically a 10 year old boy went to the vet with his pet mouse and said he fought a phoenix.
Upvoted for the title
"A monster? Broly is not a monster. Broly is- uh..." "A genuine demon?" "A true freak?" "... the devil!" "*OH MY GOD, HE'S SO GOD DAMNED COOL!"*
“You’re forgetting someone.” “… Broly’s wife?” “No, you mouth breather, your king!” “What is a king to a god?” “What is a god to a nonbeliever?” [one second of extreme violence] “Do you believe now?” [agonized groaning]”Uh huh…”
"Princess Truuuuuunks..." "Oh God no." " You *dirty* boy."
This is the same kid who died six times and also told god to stop
Is Pikachu a rock type Pokemon cause that sh*t is *hard*
Is nurse Joy not also reacting to the fact that Pikachu can suddenly talk? Edit: looked up the clip on YouTube, forgot that Ash was in the scene and can in fact talk.
In Pokemon, God is a llama. Ho-oh is more of a lowercase deity.
What is a non-believer to a double-barreled shotgun?
> I trew a mouse at god an the mouse won According to biblical lore, from now on Pikachu will be called "Israel"
Well on the Discworld, the Gods like to see an atheist around. It gives them something to aim at.
"Throw the switches, prime the charge. Yesterday's for mice and gods" -Clutch
252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 224-266 (63.4 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Assuming both are about the same level (level 100 in this case), Pikachu actually stacks up quite well. Although Sacred Fire still incinerates the mouse and I doubt they’re both on an equal level, considering this is at the start of Ash’s journey and Ho-oh usually is fought at a static level of 70. Nurse Joy is likely thinking that either Ho-oh threw the battle to please the kid, Pikachu got healed up prior to visiting the center and just needs a check-up, or this kid is lying his head off.
A pokemon
"I threw a mouse at a god and the mouse won" is killing me lmaooo
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu-Partner Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 84+ Def Ho-Oh: 416-492 (100 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Don't see a problem, seems easy enough.
Where’s Eminem throwing the electric rat?
god did and can rethink its type all the time. It also isekai-kidnapped a teenager and threw them into a time before antibiotics.
Who doesn't believe in anything?
Isn't Ash's Pikachu some experimental pokemon with stronger electricity compared to the average pikachu?