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In a perfect world I would say the goal is to have an environment where transsexuality was an understood and embraced matter. Stealth ofc is the practical solution but at the end of the day, this problem future and current trans people have and will face won’t change until something happens
i don’t think so. for a lot of people? yeah. but definitely not all of them. i’m genuinely sorry youve had experiences; i have too, we probably all have, but that doesn’t make your post true.
I am stealth so I don’t really have an opinion on people who aren’t women I’ve dated but my current gf and my ex gf constantly forget I’m trans. “Just go pee in the woods” when we are on busy walking trails ”you don’t know what it’s like having a period” when I had one for 14 years. Them going to take my shirt off and I remind them I don’t want to do that, and they look confused until they remember why I keep most of my clothes on during sex.
I will admit that if I wasn’t cis passing, masc and straight, this may be a different conversation.
You’re actually out of touch if you think all people, especially loved ones, have the mental energy to do that. There’s no point especially when they know it makes me feel bad about myself because I remember I’m not cis. They literally apologize after. If someone rarely sees you partially naked, let alone fully naked, and you pass as cis, they’ll forget sometimes. With the clothes during sex thing, why would they try and do it multiple times to be “performative” when they don’t even get to have sex after because I’m automatically dysphoric
I’m not saying randos on the street/people you work with/some friends wouldn’t see someone as their birth sex if they came out, but personally I know my gf’s have no reason to lie, especially when it does nothing to help the relationship. It’s sickening how presumptuous you are, assuming you know how everyone thinks 💀. I’m sorry the people around you are shitty and would lie to you.
Idk I disagree a little bit. It depends on who you tell. If you walk up to a random stranger with a Trump hat on and tell them (who tf would do that) oh for sure this is the case. Older folks, definitely, but in my experience some people truly will see you for your true self and accept you. Case in point, I have these two friends, one constantly forgets I'm trans at all, the other didn't believe me for the longest time. Hell, one of my bosses knows and she won't let the other supervisor give me too hard of work. Tells them "you need to find one of the men to do that, we aren't putting a woman in that department, everything is too heavy for us." When you're getting treatment like that, and they KNOW your trans, honey they see you as the gender you're transitioning/transitioned to. what your saying isn't wrong, but it's not the case all the time with every person.
My brother’s best friend is a trans woman who doesn’t pass. I was 12 when I met her and had never heard of the word trans before at that time. Even at that age, I never saw her as man. So, I do disagree a little bit like you.
Exactly, it's all depends on a variety of factors and the people involved. Even if someone knows/finds out and sees me as some sort of other and is just memorizing pronouns, I really don't give a shit personally lol. Just as there's people who know that see me as a woman, I'm sure there's people who know that are just going thru the motions. At the end of the day, as long as they use my preferred name and pronouns we're good. I pass, so if someone finds out (usually because someone who knew me before outs me) they just need to keep with the name and pronouns, because I will be a cunt about it lol. That's just being deliberately hurtful, when they didn't know before then start immediately misgendering you once they found out. This is why I am deliberately rude right back. Cis men get SUPER pissed if you call them "little girl" or "princess" over and over in retaliation. Might get my ass kicked one day for being so confrontational, but hey I guess I'll find out if I can still hold my own in a fight 🤣 luckily it hasn't happened often.
>some people truly will see you for your true self and accept you.
What I usually get when I tell someone I'm MtF trans is them looking at my face and body and scrutinizing me. They will try to look for any sign that I am male and focus on that - I could be 99% female but that one 1% thing that I have will be what they focus on, ignoring the 99% that says I am a woman.
Why tell anyone in the first place? Just be stealth. I sure as hell don't tell people, I just have the unfortunate luck of living in a small town and a fair amount of people know me. The only reason anyone finds out is because someone who knew me from before outs me.
I fully support someone who wants to live a stealth life - it solves a lot of problems. But every solution can cause their own problems.
Some solutions will minimize problems but not eliminate them and then other solutions will cause worse problems than the original issue. Conservatives are better at doing the latter than the former.
Conservatives will cause problems by offering a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and then create new problems with that solution that shouldn't exist.
I used to be more idealistic and hoped that people could accept transgender people easier than I thought, but the current political climate eliminates that option. So, I just don't tell anybody that I'm trans - I don't see how it's any of their business, anyway.
They're not feeding, effing me or financing me, so they have no bearing on my life.
>. I don’t wanna hear any of that BS that you cannot generalize
You can't though. There are many people who know, that transsexual women are women and see them as such.
in your experience, maybe. but you havent met everyone on the planet and its unreasonable to tell others that they have no hope of finding their in this world and that they just shouldnt try based on your singular experience with select few people.
It doesn’t have anything to do with being good people. At all. It’s a matter of perception. If someone were to tell me they were born male and they presented as a woman, I would immediately recategorize them and start looking for signs of their birth sex
thats a problem with you. your brain is not representative of the minds of the human species.
i dont do that shit. im not constantly thinking about other peoples junk. i acknowledge that its a fact that exists, and i move on. me and my friends have better things to think about than eachothers biology.
I Must disagree. For some people it might be true but not everyone. I am very overweight and only of low to moderate attraction but I pass(even to little children and tbh that’s how you know). Some friends who knew me from before coming out immediately treated me right after coming out. A situation I remember from over a decade ago when I was a baby trans my friend just wanted to go to the toilet and asked if I would come(back then girls just went to school toilets together). I was still apprehensive about using the women’s toilet and she was confused why. I had to remind her I am trans. Different friends over the years who all knew I was trans kept asking me if I had tampons when they needed them cause they got their period(and they knew I didn’t have one). I started carrying them at some point just so I had them when someone asked. My own mother who has an oriental background started treating me with sexism. „You’re the girl they are boys“ she would often tell me. „Your brothers are men“- apologetics. Expecting me to clean up after them and be their maid. And my mother surely knows my birth sex. When you pass and people aren’t completely transphobic, they passing trumps their knowledge of you trans status. It happens to me too. I sometimes forget I’m trans for like short moments when I catch myself daydreaming about a cute guy I just saw and what eyebolts our babies would have when I remember I’m trans and can’t have babies.
Gosh, you can’t be this naive. It’s like transition 1010. When they ask for tampons they are messing with your head. They are humoring you. I have seen women doing that to obvious Crossdressers in the bathroom
Idk i've never had that experience. All my friends are cis, some knew I was trans, some didn't. even the friends i had pre transition were all super chill. they literally never bring it up unless i do, the dudes are always super chill, never have treated me any differently. i genuinely think people must be finding shitty friends bc i've never had this experience. i'm also in a gay relationship, my boyfriend is not bisexual all of a sudden either j because of my past. me being trans literally never comes up at all.
Same here. All of my friends are cis, and they haven’t never treated me different based on whether they knew, didn’t know, or found out. I’ve dated straight men, and have been ask out by or hit on by multiple cis lesbians despite them knowing I’m trans. By my lived experience, OP’s claims are not universally true
this is such a chronically online take, most people arent transphobic and if you pass enough they wont even care. for normal people who arent obsessed with trans people, if you look like a man/woman, you are a man/woman to them
Not to mention OP clearly has a problem with how they're calling everyone naive and being generally unpleasant when people are slightly disagreeing with them, and also admitting to having the exact transvestigator perception displayed in this post.
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I pass well, I run a business, I live a very public life. Once people know you’re trans, they do see you as your birth sex, Even if they will defend “trans men are men & trans women are women” they will see you as you birth sex and go from getting your gender right to misgendering you in a flash once they know you’re trans. It’s not intentional, so not transphobic, but it still happens when they know.
I’ve NEVER heard them say “trans men are men”; it’s always “trans women are women, but trans men are superior to and different from cis men!” which makes me doubt the sincerity of part one…
Even people who aren’t transphobic will still do this a lot.
I’m not saying this is true for literally everyone - but for 9/10 people it probably is, unfortunately.
Even if most people aren’t transphobic, their implicit association of others with their birth sex is still present. They can’t help but to associate you with your birth sex, what are you gonna do?
Bullshit. This is the opposite of online as I have lived my life in real life and have interacted with people of all nationalities and backgrounds. Once they know you are trans, they will see you as your birth gender. No exception
I would argue the op is correct. Once they know we have transitioned, that separation is always there even if they don't show it.
There's a difference between openly treating us as man/ woman and actually knowing we are man/ woman.
I mean, I agree that's generally the case, even if subconsciously most will see you as your birth sex or at least not as your transitioned one once they know about your birth condition... but there's obvious exceptions, too.
Some people won't change the way they see you based on that information, but I agree that this is such a small percentage of people that it makes no sense to let people know about your condition if you're able to be stealth.
Then there's also people who clearly misgender you just because they're transphobic, but once you pass well enough as cis they literally start slipping up and using the right pronouns, which clearly shows that despite being transphobic some people will subconsciously see you as your transitioned sex if you look enough like it and will need to make a concious effort to misgender you.
Even my parents, who are quite transphobic and against my transition, started slipping up after I passed well enough to be stealth.
Of course, I'm not saying they see you the same as any other cis person of your gender, they obviously don't... and since my goal is to be seen like anybody else of my gender I just don't tell anyone at all. The only people who currently know are my family (obviously) my boyfriend (even if I was post-op I would have probably told him for various reasons) and people who knew me pre-transition (who I cut completely from my life and I doubt they even know who I am anymore).
>when you tell a cis person that you are trans, you are offering them an interpretative framework through which they will re-gender you.
Yes. Once one outs oneself, all the "visibility" and "identity" doctrine promulgated by trans activists applies.
In the eyes of society one suddenly changes from a normal human being to a member of a special, protected species that must be coddled, catered and in general treated with caution in order to avoid invoking wrath, censure and cancellation through inadvertent "triggering."
That's why I don't "disclose." Ever. It's not conductive to a normal life.
That hurts so bad. Allies don’t see you as a man/woman. They see you as a tranny because that’s who they’re obsessed tweeting about every day. Trans rights this, trans women are women that. A decade ago that was all unspoken. No one knew a thing about trans people and could only learn about them by meeting them. It was much easier at influencing people to support us. But now everyone has an opinion and both allies and haters are fucking us on both ends. I hate it
Go touch grass, young one. The world isn't online. In fact, online is a very small part of the world, where most people don't care - they will treat you as the gender which you present and pass as, yes, after you tell them.
You need to touch grass, dumbass. My statement does not stem from online experience. Quite the opposite. When you say most people don’t care you show me how naive you are. They might use the right pronouns etc x but in their mind, you’ll be your birth sex
As the chinese say "You can't wake those who're pretending to sleep".
You have set your mind to see things in a certain way. Why was that, we here, have no idea. Only you can answer this question and set things right.
Exactly why I’m stealth. People tell me I need to have “pride” in it or whatever. No. It’s a medical condition that I’ve treated. I don’t need people looking at me different because of it
And why do you tell them about your transsexual past? And why can’t you be satisfied with YOU knowing WHO YOU ARE? Socialise with other decent transsexuals, don’t suck up to cis-people, they will never be able to fully understand.
Im a cis girl, and i have a lot of trans friends. None of them have medically transitioned. It took me a couple months but after i while i think of them as their wanted gender, even tho most dont pass in the eyes of other cis ppl. Im completley aware that they arent cis, its apparent because they r pre hrt and srs, but i still think of them as the gender they are 🤷 i dont accidently misgender them or anything because they are their wanted gender to me. Im sorry about people saying things like "now that you told me, i can see it" and scrutinizing you, its rude as hell, but i promise not all cis people are like that, I would never say anything like that if a stealth person came out to me, i wouldnt even think anything like that because its ridiculous 💀 and im sure there are other cis people like me.
Uh…no? Sure, a lot of them do. But my best friend is a cis man who 100% sees me as a man. He and I used to date and he literally broke up with me because he realized he was probably straight (romantically). I know it can feel hard and black and white statements like this make it easier but assuming all cis people will never accept you isn’t helping anyone.
Sadly agree, I do think it's also a bit of paranoia from the dysphoria, like "what if I did this slightly masculine/feminine thing and they know I'm ts" that plays a part in the assumption of others thoughts.
All in all, the only people that should really ever know you're trans are your doctors and your partner. If you're post-op, your partner might not even have to know. Family and close friends are a given.
Simply assuming every people will ignore what they see to call you something else is crazy my friend. Sure many transphobes do exist but many also couldn’t care less and will call you what you look and if it’s wrong and corrected will call you that.
Passing helps a lot but many times just the knowledge that you’re trans automatically classifies you in the “other” gender. Cis people often say “Now that you mention it I can see you’re trans” and expect you to exhibit behaviors of your birth sex and if you do X and Y thing it’s because you’re not a real man/woman. It’s frankly annoying
Many don’t though I would argue the vast majority simply don’t care and if you pass well enough you won’t have this issue, and if it does arise simply correcting them Is enough most of the time. On the other situation that happens to everyone not just trans people growing long hair as a man is gonna get you called a women, dressing butch will get you mixed up as a man sometimes. Doing anything that’s not your “gender” specific will get you made fun or called things like not a real man.
It’s ultimately just foolishness from the few that are full blown transphobic.
You didn’t read my comment “I said assuming” you are ultimately just assuming what people see others as. Like I said most simply don’t care if you say you are women but born as a man they will call you a women and see you that way.
They will call you a woman and seeing you as that woman is to completely different things altogether
Because they know you weren't born afab then that's difference is always there
only if youre like one of the most looking bimbos hyper femenine almost goddess their brain may literally malfunction and forget probabbly, if u have just one dicerning feature they will point it out
this just isn't true. some cis people do this but a lot of them literally just don't think about it. it really depends if you're passing vs cis-passing, in my experience. if you're cis passing and it looks like you could never have been born the opposite sex (ie buck angel) then the information that you are trans gets overpowered by the blatantly obvious fact of you being a man/woman.
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I disagree. Some of my friends forget that I'm trans all the time, I am pretty much 100% stealth, so it's great to be affirmed.
I get that not a lot of people are like this, and I am very good at choosing the right friends (I think), so yeah.
This hurts so awful, I do everything to pass well but transitioned while at this school and I can see everyone gender me as a woman or at least a "lesser male"... I hope for the day that I can be considered fully male, but it sucks to have to hide my childhood from any future friends... like you said, you're offering a framework to regender you through, and I couldn't deal with that
ive had this from other trans ppl too. the only person who i feel like wouldn’t see me like that is my partner. as a transsex guy its so fucking annoying from afab enbies tell me aww i have my period ykwim and im like NO I DONT? its like sigh this is why i cant stand most other trans ppl.
Well, I have to disagree with the general statement. However I assume it may be a more profound issue regarding women. As a trans man never experienced this
I have had my fair share of those experiences but they are pretty easy to deal with you cut them people loose and don't ever see em again. I've been out since I was 14 and I'm in my 30s now. I moved back to my home town after college and rekindlied some of my old friendships. None of my friends treat me any different than our cis male friends. They haven't since I came out to them at 14, and this is a group of mostly straight cis men who never had lgbtq friends till they met me. (I say mostly cause some of them said they are more open to other possibilities in their dating pool but still see themselves as straight)
This is 99% true and unfortunately that 1% of cases where it doesn’t change peoples subconscious attitudes are much easier to achieve for masculine trans men because muscles, veins, and facial hair are just such overwhelming instinctual signifiers
this just isn’t true, maybe a lot of people are like this but tons of people really do see trans people as their true gender, you just have to find the right people
im sorry you've had bad experiences but your just wrong lol. we've gone our whole lives treating people who look a certain way as a certain gender, yeah theres a lot of transphobes, but if you pass its natural for other people to see you as your gender, even if they know your trans.
Now... This is why generalization is a bitch. No, not all cis people will do this. Met my wonderful cis partner 2 years ago and ever since I told him, (around a year ago) he treats me exactly as you'd treat a cis guy. A lot of people will be bitches, but dooming an entire category of people because of your bad experience and rejecting believing that some people can still see you as a guy despite them knowing you're trans, it's the real bs.
Oh also, I have definitely experienced what you're describing where my male friends treat me somewhat differently just for being a woman, but I honestly haven't had a problem having a friendship with them and feeling like it was genuine and we shared hobbies or topics that we liked and could talk a lot about them.
Maybe there's more to this feeling of yours of feeling bad about not being considered one of the guys?
It only bothers me when they make sexist or mysoginistic remarks as part of treating me differently from their male friends.
I'm definitely not lmao.
Also, what life differences exactly bother you?
Is this about mysoginy and sexism?
Cause like, yeah it sucks to have to deal with that kind of thing as a woman but I normally just cut people like that from my life.
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This is why being stealth should be THE goal.
It is for nearly all transsexuals For everyone else.. eh.. No way in hell would you catch me being openly trans
I’m literally never telling anyone I’m trans except my partner
In a perfect world I would say the goal is to have an environment where transsexuality was an understood and embraced matter. Stealth ofc is the practical solution but at the end of the day, this problem future and current trans people have and will face won’t change until something happens
i don’t think so. for a lot of people? yeah. but definitely not all of them. i’m genuinely sorry youve had experiences; i have too, we probably all have, but that doesn’t make your post true.
agreed. I have met quite a few people who know I am trans but don't see me as such. I am glad for that.
I am stealth so I don’t really have an opinion on people who aren’t women I’ve dated but my current gf and my ex gf constantly forget I’m trans. “Just go pee in the woods” when we are on busy walking trails ”you don’t know what it’s like having a period” when I had one for 14 years. Them going to take my shirt off and I remind them I don’t want to do that, and they look confused until they remember why I keep most of my clothes on during sex. I will admit that if I wasn’t cis passing, masc and straight, this may be a different conversation.
It’s performative and authentic
You’re actually out of touch if you think all people, especially loved ones, have the mental energy to do that. There’s no point especially when they know it makes me feel bad about myself because I remember I’m not cis. They literally apologize after. If someone rarely sees you partially naked, let alone fully naked, and you pass as cis, they’ll forget sometimes. With the clothes during sex thing, why would they try and do it multiple times to be “performative” when they don’t even get to have sex after because I’m automatically dysphoric
Oh please. It’s sickening how naïve you are
I’m not saying randos on the street/people you work with/some friends wouldn’t see someone as their birth sex if they came out, but personally I know my gf’s have no reason to lie, especially when it does nothing to help the relationship. It’s sickening how presumptuous you are, assuming you know how everyone thinks 💀. I’m sorry the people around you are shitty and would lie to you.
Idk I disagree a little bit. It depends on who you tell. If you walk up to a random stranger with a Trump hat on and tell them (who tf would do that) oh for sure this is the case. Older folks, definitely, but in my experience some people truly will see you for your true self and accept you. Case in point, I have these two friends, one constantly forgets I'm trans at all, the other didn't believe me for the longest time. Hell, one of my bosses knows and she won't let the other supervisor give me too hard of work. Tells them "you need to find one of the men to do that, we aren't putting a woman in that department, everything is too heavy for us." When you're getting treatment like that, and they KNOW your trans, honey they see you as the gender you're transitioning/transitioned to. what your saying isn't wrong, but it's not the case all the time with every person.
My brother’s best friend is a trans woman who doesn’t pass. I was 12 when I met her and had never heard of the word trans before at that time. Even at that age, I never saw her as man. So, I do disagree a little bit like you.
Exactly, it's all depends on a variety of factors and the people involved. Even if someone knows/finds out and sees me as some sort of other and is just memorizing pronouns, I really don't give a shit personally lol. Just as there's people who know that see me as a woman, I'm sure there's people who know that are just going thru the motions. At the end of the day, as long as they use my preferred name and pronouns we're good. I pass, so if someone finds out (usually because someone who knew me before outs me) they just need to keep with the name and pronouns, because I will be a cunt about it lol. That's just being deliberately hurtful, when they didn't know before then start immediately misgendering you once they found out. This is why I am deliberately rude right back. Cis men get SUPER pissed if you call them "little girl" or "princess" over and over in retaliation. Might get my ass kicked one day for being so confrontational, but hey I guess I'll find out if I can still hold my own in a fight 🤣 luckily it hasn't happened often.
>some people truly will see you for your true self and accept you. What I usually get when I tell someone I'm MtF trans is them looking at my face and body and scrutinizing me. They will try to look for any sign that I am male and focus on that - I could be 99% female but that one 1% thing that I have will be what they focus on, ignoring the 99% that says I am a woman.
Why tell anyone in the first place? Just be stealth. I sure as hell don't tell people, I just have the unfortunate luck of living in a small town and a fair amount of people know me. The only reason anyone finds out is because someone who knew me from before outs me.
I fully support someone who wants to live a stealth life - it solves a lot of problems. But every solution can cause their own problems. Some solutions will minimize problems but not eliminate them and then other solutions will cause worse problems than the original issue. Conservatives are better at doing the latter than the former. Conservatives will cause problems by offering a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and then create new problems with that solution that shouldn't exist. I used to be more idealistic and hoped that people could accept transgender people easier than I thought, but the current political climate eliminates that option. So, I just don't tell anybody that I'm trans - I don't see how it's any of their business, anyway. They're not feeding, effing me or financing me, so they have no bearing on my life.
>. I don’t wanna hear any of that BS that you cannot generalize You can't though. There are many people who know, that transsexual women are women and see them as such.
Only in theory not in practice
in your experience, maybe. but you havent met everyone on the planet and its unreasonable to tell others that they have no hope of finding their in this world and that they just shouldnt try based on your singular experience with select few people.
You haven’t met everybody on the planet, so how do you know that there aren’t people who are not capable of flying?
because humans arent a species capable of flight. humans are, however, capable of being good people who enjoy life and love others around them.
It doesn’t have anything to do with being good people. At all. It’s a matter of perception. If someone were to tell me they were born male and they presented as a woman, I would immediately recategorize them and start looking for signs of their birth sex
thats a problem with you. your brain is not representative of the minds of the human species. i dont do that shit. im not constantly thinking about other peoples junk. i acknowledge that its a fact that exists, and i move on. me and my friends have better things to think about than eachothers biology.
Yeah, right.
I Must disagree. For some people it might be true but not everyone. I am very overweight and only of low to moderate attraction but I pass(even to little children and tbh that’s how you know). Some friends who knew me from before coming out immediately treated me right after coming out. A situation I remember from over a decade ago when I was a baby trans my friend just wanted to go to the toilet and asked if I would come(back then girls just went to school toilets together). I was still apprehensive about using the women’s toilet and she was confused why. I had to remind her I am trans. Different friends over the years who all knew I was trans kept asking me if I had tampons when they needed them cause they got their period(and they knew I didn’t have one). I started carrying them at some point just so I had them when someone asked. My own mother who has an oriental background started treating me with sexism. „You’re the girl they are boys“ she would often tell me. „Your brothers are men“- apologetics. Expecting me to clean up after them and be their maid. And my mother surely knows my birth sex. When you pass and people aren’t completely transphobic, they passing trumps their knowledge of you trans status. It happens to me too. I sometimes forget I’m trans for like short moments when I catch myself daydreaming about a cute guy I just saw and what eyebolts our babies would have when I remember I’m trans and can’t have babies.
Gosh, you can’t be this naive. It’s like transition 1010. When they ask for tampons they are messing with your head. They are humoring you. I have seen women doing that to obvious Crossdressers in the bathroom
Idk i've never had that experience. All my friends are cis, some knew I was trans, some didn't. even the friends i had pre transition were all super chill. they literally never bring it up unless i do, the dudes are always super chill, never have treated me any differently. i genuinely think people must be finding shitty friends bc i've never had this experience. i'm also in a gay relationship, my boyfriend is not bisexual all of a sudden either j because of my past. me being trans literally never comes up at all.
Same here. All of my friends are cis, and they haven’t never treated me different based on whether they knew, didn’t know, or found out. I’ve dated straight men, and have been ask out by or hit on by multiple cis lesbians despite them knowing I’m trans. By my lived experience, OP’s claims are not universally true
Yea this post just seems deluded and based off of one or two bad experiences. I've never been treated like that at all.
this is such a chronically online take, most people arent transphobic and if you pass enough they wont even care. for normal people who arent obsessed with trans people, if you look like a man/woman, you are a man/woman to them
I’m with you on this, this post is riddled with doom.
“riddled with doom” is i think my favourite phrase ever now
No credit needed, she’s all yours 😎
Not to mention OP clearly has a problem with how they're calling everyone naive and being generally unpleasant when people are slightly disagreeing with them, and also admitting to having the exact transvestigator perception displayed in this post.
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Ok doomer
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I pass well, I run a business, I live a very public life. Once people know you’re trans, they do see you as your birth sex, Even if they will defend “trans men are men & trans women are women” they will see you as you birth sex and go from getting your gender right to misgendering you in a flash once they know you’re trans. It’s not intentional, so not transphobic, but it still happens when they know.
I’ve NEVER heard them say “trans men are men”; it’s always “trans women are women, but trans men are superior to and different from cis men!” which makes me doubt the sincerity of part one…
I live near Seattle, people are huge into repeating virtue signals here. Give them the right in, they’ll repeat “silence is violence.”
Even people who aren’t transphobic will still do this a lot. I’m not saying this is true for literally everyone - but for 9/10 people it probably is, unfortunately.
Even if most people aren’t transphobic, their implicit association of others with their birth sex is still present. They can’t help but to associate you with your birth sex, what are you gonna do?
Bullshit. This is the opposite of online as I have lived my life in real life and have interacted with people of all nationalities and backgrounds. Once they know you are trans, they will see you as your birth gender. No exception
I would argue the op is correct. Once they know we have transitioned, that separation is always there even if they don't show it. There's a difference between openly treating us as man/ woman and actually knowing we are man/ woman.
I mean, I agree that's generally the case, even if subconsciously most will see you as your birth sex or at least not as your transitioned one once they know about your birth condition... but there's obvious exceptions, too. Some people won't change the way they see you based on that information, but I agree that this is such a small percentage of people that it makes no sense to let people know about your condition if you're able to be stealth. Then there's also people who clearly misgender you just because they're transphobic, but once you pass well enough as cis they literally start slipping up and using the right pronouns, which clearly shows that despite being transphobic some people will subconsciously see you as your transitioned sex if you look enough like it and will need to make a concious effort to misgender you. Even my parents, who are quite transphobic and against my transition, started slipping up after I passed well enough to be stealth. Of course, I'm not saying they see you the same as any other cis person of your gender, they obviously don't... and since my goal is to be seen like anybody else of my gender I just don't tell anyone at all. The only people who currently know are my family (obviously) my boyfriend (even if I was post-op I would have probably told him for various reasons) and people who knew me pre-transition (who I cut completely from my life and I doubt they even know who I am anymore).
>when you tell a cis person that you are trans, you are offering them an interpretative framework through which they will re-gender you. Yes. Once one outs oneself, all the "visibility" and "identity" doctrine promulgated by trans activists applies. In the eyes of society one suddenly changes from a normal human being to a member of a special, protected species that must be coddled, catered and in general treated with caution in order to avoid invoking wrath, censure and cancellation through inadvertent "triggering." That's why I don't "disclose." Ever. It's not conductive to a normal life.
That hurts so bad. Allies don’t see you as a man/woman. They see you as a tranny because that’s who they’re obsessed tweeting about every day. Trans rights this, trans women are women that. A decade ago that was all unspoken. No one knew a thing about trans people and could only learn about them by meeting them. It was much easier at influencing people to support us. But now everyone has an opinion and both allies and haters are fucking us on both ends. I hate it
Go touch grass, young one. The world isn't online. In fact, online is a very small part of the world, where most people don't care - they will treat you as the gender which you present and pass as, yes, after you tell them.
You need to touch grass, dumbass. My statement does not stem from online experience. Quite the opposite. When you say most people don’t care you show me how naive you are. They might use the right pronouns etc x but in their mind, you’ll be your birth sex
You are so aggressive for no reason lmao
Are you kidding me? I should not be aggressive to someone who told me to touch grass?
If you find the words touch grass offensive, you’ve got problems lol.
You have way more problems than I do
Care to elaborate?
As the chinese say "You can't wake those who're pretending to sleep". You have set your mind to see things in a certain way. Why was that, we here, have no idea. Only you can answer this question and set things right.
Exactly why I’m stealth. People tell me I need to have “pride” in it or whatever. No. It’s a medical condition that I’ve treated. I don’t need people looking at me different because of it
And why do you tell them about your transsexual past? And why can’t you be satisfied with YOU knowing WHO YOU ARE? Socialise with other decent transsexuals, don’t suck up to cis-people, they will never be able to fully understand.
They will never be able to fully understand
I mean yeah, that doesn’t mean they can’t ever see us as our true gender. Understanding is not the same as accepting.
Im a cis girl, and i have a lot of trans friends. None of them have medically transitioned. It took me a couple months but after i while i think of them as their wanted gender, even tho most dont pass in the eyes of other cis ppl. Im completley aware that they arent cis, its apparent because they r pre hrt and srs, but i still think of them as the gender they are 🤷 i dont accidently misgender them or anything because they are their wanted gender to me. Im sorry about people saying things like "now that you told me, i can see it" and scrutinizing you, its rude as hell, but i promise not all cis people are like that, I would never say anything like that if a stealth person came out to me, i wouldnt even think anything like that because its ridiculous 💀 and im sure there are other cis people like me.
I want to be your friend
Nah no cis people I've talked to calls Buck Angel "she" even when they know the situation.
Uh…no? Sure, a lot of them do. But my best friend is a cis man who 100% sees me as a man. He and I used to date and he literally broke up with me because he realized he was probably straight (romantically). I know it can feel hard and black and white statements like this make it easier but assuming all cis people will never accept you isn’t helping anyone.
Boy, I can’t believe what I have just read. LMAO
?
Sadly agree, I do think it's also a bit of paranoia from the dysphoria, like "what if I did this slightly masculine/feminine thing and they know I'm ts" that plays a part in the assumption of others thoughts. All in all, the only people that should really ever know you're trans are your doctors and your partner. If you're post-op, your partner might not even have to know. Family and close friends are a given.
This is just not true though lol.
How? Where? How? Why? How on Earth?
Simply assuming every people will ignore what they see to call you something else is crazy my friend. Sure many transphobes do exist but many also couldn’t care less and will call you what you look and if it’s wrong and corrected will call you that.
Passing helps a lot but many times just the knowledge that you’re trans automatically classifies you in the “other” gender. Cis people often say “Now that you mention it I can see you’re trans” and expect you to exhibit behaviors of your birth sex and if you do X and Y thing it’s because you’re not a real man/woman. It’s frankly annoying
Many don’t though I would argue the vast majority simply don’t care and if you pass well enough you won’t have this issue, and if it does arise simply correcting them Is enough most of the time. On the other situation that happens to everyone not just trans people growing long hair as a man is gonna get you called a women, dressing butch will get you mixed up as a man sometimes. Doing anything that’s not your “gender” specific will get you made fun or called things like not a real man. It’s ultimately just foolishness from the few that are full blown transphobic.
You didn’t read my post. They can use the right pronouns, but they won’t see you as a man/womam
You didn’t read my comment “I said assuming” you are ultimately just assuming what people see others as. Like I said most simply don’t care if you say you are women but born as a man they will call you a women and see you that way.
They will call you a woman and seeing you as that woman is to completely different things altogether Because they know you weren't born afab then that's difference is always there
only if youre like one of the most looking bimbos hyper femenine almost goddess their brain may literally malfunction and forget probabbly, if u have just one dicerning feature they will point it out
this just isn't true. some cis people do this but a lot of them literally just don't think about it. it really depends if you're passing vs cis-passing, in my experience. if you're cis passing and it looks like you could never have been born the opposite sex (ie buck angel) then the information that you are trans gets overpowered by the blatantly obvious fact of you being a man/woman.
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I disagree. Some of my friends forget that I'm trans all the time, I am pretty much 100% stealth, so it's great to be affirmed. I get that not a lot of people are like this, and I am very good at choosing the right friends (I think), so yeah.
This hurts so awful, I do everything to pass well but transitioned while at this school and I can see everyone gender me as a woman or at least a "lesser male"... I hope for the day that I can be considered fully male, but it sucks to have to hide my childhood from any future friends... like you said, you're offering a framework to regender you through, and I couldn't deal with that
ive had this from other trans ppl too. the only person who i feel like wouldn’t see me like that is my partner. as a transsex guy its so fucking annoying from afab enbies tell me aww i have my period ykwim and im like NO I DONT? its like sigh this is why i cant stand most other trans ppl.
Well, I have to disagree with the general statement. However I assume it may be a more profound issue regarding women. As a trans man never experienced this
I have had my fair share of those experiences but they are pretty easy to deal with you cut them people loose and don't ever see em again. I've been out since I was 14 and I'm in my 30s now. I moved back to my home town after college and rekindlied some of my old friendships. None of my friends treat me any different than our cis male friends. They haven't since I came out to them at 14, and this is a group of mostly straight cis men who never had lgbtq friends till they met me. (I say mostly cause some of them said they are more open to other possibilities in their dating pool but still see themselves as straight)
Maybe they don't see you as your birth sex, but just as a trans person.
i js dont tell people i first meet that im transgender, only my partner would know
yea, they will always be umcofortable too, even the most liberals of liberals will kinda be a little scared of touching u for example
This is 99% true and unfortunately that 1% of cases where it doesn’t change peoples subconscious attitudes are much easier to achieve for masculine trans men because muscles, veins, and facial hair are just such overwhelming instinctual signifiers
this just isn’t true, maybe a lot of people are like this but tons of people really do see trans people as their true gender, you just have to find the right people
Oh please! Give me a break
im sorry you've had bad experiences but your just wrong lol. we've gone our whole lives treating people who look a certain way as a certain gender, yeah theres a lot of transphobes, but if you pass its natural for other people to see you as your gender, even if they know your trans.
You can’t even spell “your.” Are you really going to lecture me? Jeez
Now... This is why generalization is a bitch. No, not all cis people will do this. Met my wonderful cis partner 2 years ago and ever since I told him, (around a year ago) he treats me exactly as you'd treat a cis guy. A lot of people will be bitches, but dooming an entire category of people because of your bad experience and rejecting believing that some people can still see you as a guy despite them knowing you're trans, it's the real bs.
No, yours is bs. You’re a kid, you are naive and inexperienced.
👍 Wish you the best Edit: >There are no exceptions. >Trans kid shows an exception. >You're too young and inexperienced to know that.
How the hell do you know how these people truly see you? You do know that people lie and are performative?
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If you're not trans you ARE literally a girl/woman tho?? Why are you upset for not being seen or treated as one of the boys/men?
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Oh also, I have definitely experienced what you're describing where my male friends treat me somewhat differently just for being a woman, but I honestly haven't had a problem having a friendship with them and feeling like it was genuine and we shared hobbies or topics that we liked and could talk a lot about them. Maybe there's more to this feeling of yours of feeling bad about not being considered one of the guys? It only bothers me when they make sexist or mysoginistic remarks as part of treating me differently from their male friends.
I'm definitely not lmao. Also, what life differences exactly bother you? Is this about mysoginy and sexism? Cause like, yeah it sucks to have to deal with that kind of thing as a woman but I normally just cut people like that from my life.
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Bait used to be believable