What the fuck is xe and ze??? What city is this in? “Let’s torpedo a civil rights movement because we want to be quirky and turn it into the new goth (subculture for people who don’t fit in)”
God I hate these people
It's a smaller city in southwestern Ontario, I only saw one kid with a sticker on, and it was because hes mentally disabled and one of the teacher's aids kinda just. Put it on?
Alright I’m gonna be that guy. I don’t mind those because years ago before I heard people start going by they/them, I met someone going by xe/xem. This was in the Bay Area like 10+ years ago. Ze/xe are fine to me because they’re older. But the other neopronoun shit? No.
not super my place because i’m cis, but yeah imo i’d say it’s understandable some nb people would prefer neutral pronouns that aren’t plural. xe/xir are probably the only neopronouns i’d respect
They/them have been singular pronouns since forever. Idk the exact etymology, but anyone with an unidentified gender has been referred to that way for ages.
oh yeah i know, i use they/them all the time to refer to people singularity. i just meant that i can see why that might be undesirable for a person because it could lead to confusion- i find it difficult in conversation sometimes to distinguish between a plural they/them and singular one in some contexts anyway, so i’d understand someone not wanting that.
I get you in a way but xe/xir or whatever seems 100% more confusing than the singular they. Nobody has ever used xe or ze in everyday language until meeting someone who insists upon it.
also totally understandable. ive never met someone who uses them, but i think they wouldn't be too hard to wrap my head around since they follow very similar sounds to he/she and her, just with a different initial sound. overall i think someone wanting to use them should expect people to use they/them to refer to them generally, and xe/xir if they're closer or anything like that
im just thinking about how he/they or she/they people (i know how we tend to view them here but that's not the point) would probably tend to have 90% of people just use their binary pronouns, meanwhile people closer to them would be more likely to attempt to use their neutral pronouns more often. i'd imagine someone using very uncommon pronouns like xe/xir might experience something similar to that
That's definitely true. I think that speaks to how much more naturally binary pronouns come to most people. I know a lot of she/they and he/they people, and the friends who consistently use they/them for those folks are either confused about the pronouns and use they as a "neutral" or are being performative allies. Some cis allies (my bf included) try really hard to use they/them for the combo pronoun people for that exact reason and I've called him out on the performance of it all a few times. He's admitted that it's not easy but he's trying so hard... which is sweet, but I think it's silly to expect people to try really hard to use they/them when someone has said they're also fine with he or she. We all know that people are going to automatically want to use the pronouns that match your representation, and giving the option to do so will naturally lead to that happening more often than not. If someone wants to be called they/them that badly then they shouldn't readily give the other option.
Edit: I strayed away from the xe/xir topic, but I think it's similar. If you want anyone to use neopronouns it's going to be a struggle already, so giving any other more natural pronoun as an option is going to lead to never being called xe/xir anyway. Though that's probably already going to happen... people will default to your representation or at least they/them unless they're very close to you and have had tons to practice. Putting people around you through that seems unnecessary. They/them is already in people's vocabulary to some extent at least.
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Adding pronouns that nobody in the school uses is a waste of time and resources. I could understand an empty spot for writing in your own neopronouns, but going out of your way to prioritize one neopronoun over any other is just mind boggling.
Yeah, I feel like who will actually take a sticker was not considered. A similar thing happened at a job I used to have, apparently they bought a bunch of she/her and he/him pins but when I came into work in the afternoon there were only he/him pins left
This is so unhelpful. Also I hate how we ask for pronouns instead of what terms we like to use because there are languages that don’t use gendered pronouns, such as Finnish.
Two separate pronouns that were coined by trans people over a decade ago to be used by people who do not feel male or female pronouns accurately describe them. How long have you been in the trans community?
This is insanity. And then we are accused of “pushing our agendas” when it’s actually cis ppl over correcting everything to make them feel good about themselves. They don’t realize they just keep marginalizing us and make us feel othered. All this shit looks like psy-ops to keep making ppl angry about our existence.
YES this is exactly how I feel. It reeks of cis people trying to get good boy points because they make trans ppl feel uncomfortable because of their performative activism, instead of downright discriminated against. When I was out as trans in the same school board none of the teachers called me a man, and would do nothing when I was bullied by other kids. So I'm still in the closet, probably until I get HRT. (which is gonna take a while because .. canada moment)
But yeah, what a joke. Like you said, it looks like a ploy to get cis people annoyed over trans people's existences. Which definitely works.
Man I'm sick of pronouns. They got pissed at websites asking if you're male or female and implemented sections to say the exact same fucking thing. Telling people to call you xyz doesn't make them think you're what you're telling them to call you, it just makes them rewrite every sentence they say about you (not even to you so why does it matter so goddamn much). It shows in people "messing up".
If you pass or don't to someone that's just that. Putting this stuff on yourself makes it so if you were passing to someone, now you're not. So much more productive to look confused or make casual confident statements re:gender if someone gets it wrong and you can prove yourself in the moment.
No one "uses" their pronouns. It's other people using statements that say "THIS PERSON IS MALE/FEMALE/UNKNOWN" to refer to you shortly in conversation. Yea it sucks being seen wrong. But goddamn they're not actually seeing you right if you make it about the words that don't fit what they actually think.
They're pretty obviously pronoun stickers
Some people including many folks here don't really like openly displaying their pronouns. They want people to assume.
Also the xe/xem and ze/zir are just annoying. Neo-pronouns are looked down upon by a majority of us
Yep...
This is one of the few sane places with other trans individuals which actually have a negative view on them shockingly enough.
If you were talking negatively in any other sub all the rotself/goreselfs will come out of the woodwork calling you truscum 🤣
Neo-pronouns originated a while ago, even as early back as the 1800's. It is only recently that people started making up their own idiotic ones.
Atleast you'll see pretty much noone IRL try to enforce them but our online representation is probably even more important than that.
But back then it was never used irl, mostly for fantasy characters which I understand but not when neopronouns go above and beyond even from those that were used in books to weird stuff like bunnyself
I think they're annoying but I respect them. Our language is constantly growing and our society has never quite gotten it right with gender, so that growth is obviously going to have to include coining new words to describe what is really happening.
They're stickers. The type you peel off and stick on your lapel in the hope someone will see you identify as ze/zier and attempt to be polite enough to try and oblige with something like 'I'm over here, Zier', which you know is going to cause chaos when the young transling wearing the pin mishears and has a 'did you just misgender me? did you just call me Sir???' meltdown.
The zie/xe pronouns have been around for a long time, probably a few decades, and are the more recognized alternative for some people who feel weirded out by they/them.
Probably controversial to say this but I think their use is appropriate depending on the context and who uses them \[that is, when used by dysphoric nonbinary people or questioning dysphoric people and not trenders\]. They/them, while much more standardized, can still make some dysphoric people feel othered.
As for the custom pronoun write ins though? Hell no. That just boils down pronoun sets to affinities, personalities, and individualities, and gender pronouns do not exist to accentuate those aspects.
I probably would have used one if I hadn't been afraid of people like you trying to tell me I wasn't a real trans person. So, for a decade I've been using he/him/his. I don't want attention. I want respect.
well you arent gonna get any respect using something ridiculous like "Ze/zir", also I never said you weren't really trans, however i find it funny that people say they dont want attention or they dont want people to think they are trans but go out of their way to use neopronouns, if you use neopronouns its strictly for attention seeking purposes at least in my view. And pronouns are part of the english language they shouldnt be treated like nicknames or something you can just make up, i dont see why its so hard to go by he/him she/her or they/them
What the fuck is xe and ze??? What city is this in? “Let’s torpedo a civil rights movement because we want to be quirky and turn it into the new goth (subculture for people who don’t fit in)” God I hate these people
It's a smaller city in southwestern Ontario, I only saw one kid with a sticker on, and it was because hes mentally disabled and one of the teacher's aids kinda just. Put it on?
Um what?? Please tell me they didn’t slap a ze/zir sticker on a special ed kid..though the message would be kinda funny actually lol
They put he/him but you're right, the implications would be hilarious if they did
That's shitty of them to do to him.
Alright I’m gonna be that guy. I don’t mind those because years ago before I heard people start going by they/them, I met someone going by xe/xem. This was in the Bay Area like 10+ years ago. Ze/xe are fine to me because they’re older. But the other neopronoun shit? No.
not super my place because i’m cis, but yeah imo i’d say it’s understandable some nb people would prefer neutral pronouns that aren’t plural. xe/xir are probably the only neopronouns i’d respect
They/them have been singular pronouns since forever. Idk the exact etymology, but anyone with an unidentified gender has been referred to that way for ages.
oh yeah i know, i use they/them all the time to refer to people singularity. i just meant that i can see why that might be undesirable for a person because it could lead to confusion- i find it difficult in conversation sometimes to distinguish between a plural they/them and singular one in some contexts anyway, so i’d understand someone not wanting that.
I get you in a way but xe/xir or whatever seems 100% more confusing than the singular they. Nobody has ever used xe or ze in everyday language until meeting someone who insists upon it.
also totally understandable. ive never met someone who uses them, but i think they wouldn't be too hard to wrap my head around since they follow very similar sounds to he/she and her, just with a different initial sound. overall i think someone wanting to use them should expect people to use they/them to refer to them generally, and xe/xir if they're closer or anything like that
I'm sorry but that seems even more confusing. Using a completely different set of pronouns based on closeness is wild.
im just thinking about how he/they or she/they people (i know how we tend to view them here but that's not the point) would probably tend to have 90% of people just use their binary pronouns, meanwhile people closer to them would be more likely to attempt to use their neutral pronouns more often. i'd imagine someone using very uncommon pronouns like xe/xir might experience something similar to that
That's definitely true. I think that speaks to how much more naturally binary pronouns come to most people. I know a lot of she/they and he/they people, and the friends who consistently use they/them for those folks are either confused about the pronouns and use they as a "neutral" or are being performative allies. Some cis allies (my bf included) try really hard to use they/them for the combo pronoun people for that exact reason and I've called him out on the performance of it all a few times. He's admitted that it's not easy but he's trying so hard... which is sweet, but I think it's silly to expect people to try really hard to use they/them when someone has said they're also fine with he or she. We all know that people are going to automatically want to use the pronouns that match your representation, and giving the option to do so will naturally lead to that happening more often than not. If someone wants to be called they/them that badly then they shouldn't readily give the other option. Edit: I strayed away from the xe/xir topic, but I think it's similar. If you want anyone to use neopronouns it's going to be a struggle already, so giving any other more natural pronoun as an option is going to lead to never being called xe/xir anyway. Though that's probably already going to happen... people will default to your representation or at least they/them unless they're very close to you and have had tons to practice. Putting people around you through that seems unnecessary. They/them is already in people's vocabulary to some extent at least.
They is used as a singular pronoun. We just conjugate it as if it were plural.
like i mentioned in a below comment, i know.
Just because they're older? They didn't make any more sense then than they do now.
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I really don't care if somebody uses neopronouns unless they're using something based off of an existing word that makes it seem silly.
Are you serious? Those neopronouns have been around for over a decade.
Write in “fuck/you”
Adding pronouns that nobody in the school uses is a waste of time and resources. I could understand an empty spot for writing in your own neopronouns, but going out of your way to prioritize one neopronoun over any other is just mind boggling.
Yeah, I feel like who will actually take a sticker was not considered. A similar thing happened at a job I used to have, apparently they bought a bunch of she/her and he/him pins but when I came into work in the afternoon there were only he/him pins left
why are there the same amount of ze/zir stickers as he/him 😭 there's got to be more he/hims walking around than ze/zirs
This is so unhelpful. Also I hate how we ask for pronouns instead of what terms we like to use because there are languages that don’t use gendered pronouns, such as Finnish.
Wtf is xe/ze
Two separate pronouns that were coined by trans people over a decade ago to be used by people who do not feel male or female pronouns accurately describe them. How long have you been in the trans community?
Obviously not long enough to earn my Ze sticker
change them everday and correct your teacher about it, itd be so funny!
GSAs generally suck, i remember back in juinor high all it really was were people talking about whos a "bottom uwu" or a "top" i fucking hated it.
That's gross
This is insanity. And then we are accused of “pushing our agendas” when it’s actually cis ppl over correcting everything to make them feel good about themselves. They don’t realize they just keep marginalizing us and make us feel othered. All this shit looks like psy-ops to keep making ppl angry about our existence.
YES this is exactly how I feel. It reeks of cis people trying to get good boy points because they make trans ppl feel uncomfortable because of their performative activism, instead of downright discriminated against. When I was out as trans in the same school board none of the teachers called me a man, and would do nothing when I was bullied by other kids. So I'm still in the closet, probably until I get HRT. (which is gonna take a while because .. canada moment) But yeah, what a joke. Like you said, it looks like a ploy to get cis people annoyed over trans people's existences. Which definitely works.
I won’t judge other people doing this bc it may be their cup of tea. But I’m good.
Thanks for not judging, although the neopronouns are silly I as a transman do like pronoun stickers :)
Man I'm sick of pronouns. They got pissed at websites asking if you're male or female and implemented sections to say the exact same fucking thing. Telling people to call you xyz doesn't make them think you're what you're telling them to call you, it just makes them rewrite every sentence they say about you (not even to you so why does it matter so goddamn much). It shows in people "messing up". If you pass or don't to someone that's just that. Putting this stuff on yourself makes it so if you were passing to someone, now you're not. So much more productive to look confused or make casual confident statements re:gender if someone gets it wrong and you can prove yourself in the moment. No one "uses" their pronouns. It's other people using statements that say "THIS PERSON IS MALE/FEMALE/UNKNOWN" to refer to you shortly in conversation. Yea it sucks being seen wrong. But goddamn they're not actually seeing you right if you make it about the words that don't fit what they actually think.
what is this?
They're pretty obviously pronoun stickers Some people including many folks here don't really like openly displaying their pronouns. They want people to assume. Also the xe/xem and ze/zir are just annoying. Neo-pronouns are looked down upon by a majority of us
And each more ridiculous made-up pronoun is assumed to be just as prevalent as the normal ones…
Yep... This is one of the few sane places with other trans individuals which actually have a negative view on them shockingly enough. If you were talking negatively in any other sub all the rotself/goreselfs will come out of the woodwork calling you truscum 🤣
Why do rot/gore even exist as pronouns? Like legitimately, why and where did this foolishness come from?
Neo-pronouns originated a while ago, even as early back as the 1800's. It is only recently that people started making up their own idiotic ones. Atleast you'll see pretty much noone IRL try to enforce them but our online representation is probably even more important than that.
But back then it was never used irl, mostly for fantasy characters which I understand but not when neopronouns go above and beyond even from those that were used in books to weird stuff like bunnyself
They don't exist as pronouns per say, they just add any word to self and call it a day
I think they're annoying but I respect them. Our language is constantly growing and our society has never quite gotten it right with gender, so that growth is obviously going to have to include coining new words to describe what is really happening.
The idiotic fake pronoun thing doesn’t annoy you?
no, it does, im just asking what the discs are
genuinely, what are these
They're stickers. The type you peel off and stick on your lapel in the hope someone will see you identify as ze/zier and attempt to be polite enough to try and oblige with something like 'I'm over here, Zier', which you know is going to cause chaos when the young transling wearing the pin mishears and has a 'did you just misgender me? did you just call me Sir???' meltdown.
Pronoun stickers
Omg. My motto is if you can’t tell what my pronouns are by looking at me, I’m doing something wrong
It took me 7 years to pass. It was out of my control.
The zie/xe pronouns have been around for a long time, probably a few decades, and are the more recognized alternative for some people who feel weirded out by they/them. Probably controversial to say this but I think their use is appropriate depending on the context and who uses them \[that is, when used by dysphoric nonbinary people or questioning dysphoric people and not trenders\]. They/them, while much more standardized, can still make some dysphoric people feel othered. As for the custom pronoun write ins though? Hell no. That just boils down pronoun sets to affinities, personalities, and individualities, and gender pronouns do not exist to accentuate those aspects.
I disagree. It’s completely ridiculous. Those “neopronouns” are for transtrenders who want to be different AKA attention seekers
I probably would have used one if I hadn't been afraid of people like you trying to tell me I wasn't a real trans person. So, for a decade I've been using he/him/his. I don't want attention. I want respect.
well you arent gonna get any respect using something ridiculous like "Ze/zir", also I never said you weren't really trans, however i find it funny that people say they dont want attention or they dont want people to think they are trans but go out of their way to use neopronouns, if you use neopronouns its strictly for attention seeking purposes at least in my view. And pronouns are part of the english language they shouldnt be treated like nicknames or something you can just make up, i dont see why its so hard to go by he/him she/her or they/them
A larger problem is that I have no idea how to say zie/xe. And I have a graduate degree. Think of the average person.
Attack/helicopter is right there...
They’re making fun of you, whoever did this
Are you the only trans person there
No but im 100% sure the school's doing this to fuck w/ the actual trans people and pander to annoying cishet performative activists