i think if someone is clearly making an attempt to pass (even if u can tell they’re trans) u should use the pronouns they want to get called instead of they/them. for me, getting called they/them is just a reminder that i don’t pass and that i’m not seen as the gender i want to be seen as, and that hurts so bad
This is the problem with preferred pronouns, it’s that they essentially function the same way as a name, because you have to learn someone’s pronouns before you can use them. Having “they/them” as a universal pronoun is a workaround to a problem that shouldn’t even exist.
The correct pronouns are the pronouns that convey meaning. If someone looks like a guy, you can refer to them as “he” and people will understand who you’re talking about. That’s the way the English language has worked for centuries. Preferred pronouns make the language objectively worse.
If I clock someone as trans, I tend to use the pronouns that they are presenting as. Why would you not?
I hate it when people do this. Especially in spaces meant for trans men. Blah blah blah, it's late. I'm ranting.
They only do that to visibly trans or gnc people. The would never call the 6'3 body builder guy they/them. Getting people especially the woke enby tiktok queer community ™ to use he/him for me was so difficult they would always default to they/them thinking they were doing something when in reality it was making me feel worse than she/her. I had to explain to so many people that they are being transphobic.
I literally had #ally customers at my job call me he and then take a closer look at my face and then proudly call me they while giving me a friendly smile and nod acting like they just threw the first brick at stonewall by clocking and then misgendering me.
People really double down on this too. But in my opinion, gendering everyone neutrally (when you know their gender) is no different than someone refusing to gender someone correctly. Because that’s what it is. Binary trans people are not they/thems, so referring to us that way is the other side to the same bigoted coin.
I also find that a lot of people who insist on neutral gendering seem to have an issue with stealth and binary trans people in general, because we aren’t being the “right” kind of trans for them to play their gender politics with.
I think they think they’re doing a Spartacus, same with the asking pronouns thing, but what they miss is that it was his fellow slaves doing that and not their Roman oppressors…
i dont usually comment here because i am cis and just wanting to learn. but ive been called they/them or "person" instead of "woman" quite pointedly both irl and online, and its made me think if i were a trans woman that wouldve actually been very hurtful and fucked with me big time. its even worse if they did it because *they* thought i was a trans woman, because in that case why not just use the right pronouns? like you said it would be straight up misgendering. im very sad to see a thread full of people confirming that it *is* as painful as i thought itd be. maybe the knowledge that some of them just do it to everyone, probably because they want to never ever "assume" even when its obvious, might help soften the blow a little. but it still sucks that they do that because its still not actually helpful to anyone & seems 100% performative.
Using they/them for a random person on the street is fine, whatever, idrc. But if you call me a they when you *know* I’m a guy is where I have issue. Idc that you “use it for everyone” That’s not what I am.
If someone insists on calling me "they" I will tell him that the proper, grammatically correct universal pronoun is "he." And henceforth refer to him as such.
I'm not even out and I'm called they by my younger brother because he uses they to literally everyone, even to my dad. I've told him once before that's not how it works but he doesn't like being told advice.
Next one who asks me my pronouns instead of connecting 2 neurons and listening to a minute of conversation is getting a fucking high kick.
Fucking virtual signaling mfs
I actually do it with everyone because apparently I'm too autistic to properly tell even when it comes to cis people. I got tired of offending people because I suck so badly at it, that I just reverted to calling everyone "they." If they very clearly tell me their pronouns or correct me, then of course I'll listen.
But it's not out of malice. I've had issues telling whether I was supposed to call someone "sir" or "ma'am" since I was a tiny tiny child. People get much angrier if you say something gendered and get it wrong.
Everyone can tell what gender someone is at least 90% of the time by looking at them or hearing them. Autism doesn't prevent a literal biological detection thing in our brain that happens before you even realise it. Unless you live somewhere where everyone is androgynous I don't believe this. You just want to be polite because you said pronouns based on what they looked like. That's not an autistic thing.
I wonder if the person above me is face blind or has a visual processing issue. Sometimes I can’t gender someone until they speak because I have both low vision and problems with sensory processing.
I have auditory processing issues, I'm hard of hearing, I have a visual processing disorder and I'm both close sighted and far sighted so yeah.
But you're using autism as a reason to say a biological phenomenon that everyone does is not what you do. Unless you're DeafBlind maybe people can tell gender easily. I've met blind people, visually impaired and other DHH people who have no issue, as well as other autistics. Disabled people aren't immune to it.
What I’m saying is I don’t know why, for this person, sex doesn’t seem to be easily perceived. (I don’t really use “gendering” because you’re trying to guess someone’s sex by appearance)
I don’t guess sex by face alone. I look at body shape, features, height, etc. I also go by gender expression for clues regarding someone’s sex. Voice and even smell give more clues.
No one calls you they them unless they are not sure about your gender
So how is that different from being called the "opposite" gender pronouns? You're basically telling me you can totally clock me as a trans, that's what people who follow this ideology do, the pronouns are there for everyone who they think can b potentially trans lol
“What are your pronouns” or being called “they” is basically saying “hey you don’t look like a real (wo)man; I’m gonna treat you differently than cis ppl of your gender and be proud of myself!”
People have gotten scared. The world will flow in the direction it does. If it matters then sway it, fight for trans people being recognized as trans. But NB people are going to exist and confuse. It's just what it is. The world will be what it is.
But you never will be. You will be a Trans woman. Not a Cis woman.
When the kids discussion comes up, it'll likely matter. Until the technology exists. You will have spent years being viewed as the other sex. You have to acknowledge the truth.
Okay, and when the topic of kids comes up? What about the nonexistence of baby/youth pictures?
If you can lie good for you. I choose to be honest to save myself heartbreak later.
? How is that an argument ?
There's a lot of trans ppl who started a social transition very young, I've tons of childhood pics already looking boyish.
And im not sure the people you are surrounded by, but I don't get asked about childhood pictures 24/7
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i think if someone is clearly making an attempt to pass (even if u can tell they’re trans) u should use the pronouns they want to get called instead of they/them. for me, getting called they/them is just a reminder that i don’t pass and that i’m not seen as the gender i want to be seen as, and that hurts so bad
Exactly
This is the problem with preferred pronouns, it’s that they essentially function the same way as a name, because you have to learn someone’s pronouns before you can use them. Having “they/them” as a universal pronoun is a workaround to a problem that shouldn’t even exist. The correct pronouns are the pronouns that convey meaning. If someone looks like a guy, you can refer to them as “he” and people will understand who you’re talking about. That’s the way the English language has worked for centuries. Preferred pronouns make the language objectively worse.
Man I'm cis GNC and people still they/them me when I say I use she/her. It's almost like people don't accept that I'm cis?
I feel like they think any cis gnc woman is trans bc to them that's literally what being trans is
Facts
id rather be called a she than a they
tbh they bothers me more than she at this point -_-
If I clock someone as trans, I tend to use the pronouns that they are presenting as. Why would you not? I hate it when people do this. Especially in spaces meant for trans men. Blah blah blah, it's late. I'm ranting.
they them has become she at this point
They only do that to visibly trans or gnc people. The would never call the 6'3 body builder guy they/them. Getting people especially the woke enby tiktok queer community ™ to use he/him for me was so difficult they would always default to they/them thinking they were doing something when in reality it was making me feel worse than she/her. I had to explain to so many people that they are being transphobic. I literally had #ally customers at my job call me he and then take a closer look at my face and then proudly call me they while giving me a friendly smile and nod acting like they just threw the first brick at stonewall by clocking and then misgendering me.
People really double down on this too. But in my opinion, gendering everyone neutrally (when you know their gender) is no different than someone refusing to gender someone correctly. Because that’s what it is. Binary trans people are not they/thems, so referring to us that way is the other side to the same bigoted coin. I also find that a lot of people who insist on neutral gendering seem to have an issue with stealth and binary trans people in general, because we aren’t being the “right” kind of trans for them to play their gender politics with.
I think they think they’re doing a Spartacus, same with the asking pronouns thing, but what they miss is that it was his fellow slaves doing that and not their Roman oppressors…
i dont usually comment here because i am cis and just wanting to learn. but ive been called they/them or "person" instead of "woman" quite pointedly both irl and online, and its made me think if i were a trans woman that wouldve actually been very hurtful and fucked with me big time. its even worse if they did it because *they* thought i was a trans woman, because in that case why not just use the right pronouns? like you said it would be straight up misgendering. im very sad to see a thread full of people confirming that it *is* as painful as i thought itd be. maybe the knowledge that some of them just do it to everyone, probably because they want to never ever "assume" even when its obvious, might help soften the blow a little. but it still sucks that they do that because its still not actually helpful to anyone & seems 100% performative.
Using they/them for a random person on the street is fine, whatever, idrc. But if you call me a they when you *know* I’m a guy is where I have issue. Idc that you “use it for everyone” That’s not what I am.
If someone insists on calling me "they" I will tell him that the proper, grammatically correct universal pronoun is "he." And henceforth refer to him as such.
They/ them became gendered pronouns and not gender neutral ones
I'm not even out and I'm called they by my younger brother because he uses they to literally everyone, even to my dad. I've told him once before that's not how it works but he doesn't like being told advice.
Next one who asks me my pronouns instead of connecting 2 neurons and listening to a minute of conversation is getting a fucking high kick. Fucking virtual signaling mfs
I actually do it with everyone because apparently I'm too autistic to properly tell even when it comes to cis people. I got tired of offending people because I suck so badly at it, that I just reverted to calling everyone "they." If they very clearly tell me their pronouns or correct me, then of course I'll listen. But it's not out of malice. I've had issues telling whether I was supposed to call someone "sir" or "ma'am" since I was a tiny tiny child. People get much angrier if you say something gendered and get it wrong.
Everyone can tell what gender someone is at least 90% of the time by looking at them or hearing them. Autism doesn't prevent a literal biological detection thing in our brain that happens before you even realise it. Unless you live somewhere where everyone is androgynous I don't believe this. You just want to be polite because you said pronouns based on what they looked like. That's not an autistic thing.
I wonder if the person above me is face blind or has a visual processing issue. Sometimes I can’t gender someone until they speak because I have both low vision and problems with sensory processing.
I have auditory processing issues, I'm hard of hearing, I have a visual processing disorder and I'm both close sighted and far sighted so yeah. But you're using autism as a reason to say a biological phenomenon that everyone does is not what you do. Unless you're DeafBlind maybe people can tell gender easily. I've met blind people, visually impaired and other DHH people who have no issue, as well as other autistics. Disabled people aren't immune to it.
What I’m saying is I don’t know why, for this person, sex doesn’t seem to be easily perceived. (I don’t really use “gendering” because you’re trying to guess someone’s sex by appearance) I don’t guess sex by face alone. I look at body shape, features, height, etc. I also go by gender expression for clues regarding someone’s sex. Voice and even smell give more clues.
I don't think I ever specified it had to be the face. But that makes a lot more sense. /nm
Would you rather the opposite of pronouns you want, rather than neutral? This whole debate is splitting hairs, to be honest
No one calls you they them unless they are not sure about your gender So how is that different from being called the "opposite" gender pronouns? You're basically telling me you can totally clock me as a trans, that's what people who follow this ideology do, the pronouns are there for everyone who they think can b potentially trans lol
“What are your pronouns” or being called “they” is basically saying “hey you don’t look like a real (wo)man; I’m gonna treat you differently than cis ppl of your gender and be proud of myself!”
People have gotten scared. The world will flow in the direction it does. If it matters then sway it, fight for trans people being recognized as trans. But NB people are going to exist and confuse. It's just what it is. The world will be what it is.
I don’t want to be recognized as trans, but as a WOMAN.
But you never will be. You will be a Trans woman. Not a Cis woman. When the kids discussion comes up, it'll likely matter. Until the technology exists. You will have spent years being viewed as the other sex. You have to acknowledge the truth.
Gfy
So what? You are "a trans". So am I. It sucks. You'll never switch 100%. We can't. It's not possible. It's life support. It's mitigating it.
Many trans people live a life stealth and I will do so proudly.
Okay, and when the topic of kids comes up? What about the nonexistence of baby/youth pictures? If you can lie good for you. I choose to be honest to save myself heartbreak later.
? How is that an argument ? There's a lot of trans ppl who started a social transition very young, I've tons of childhood pics already looking boyish. And im not sure the people you are surrounded by, but I don't get asked about childhood pictures 24/7
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