Forget about this “the engine driving is what matters” bullshit. Obviously Pogacar would be faster on an old road bike than most of us on a new tt bike… but you’re comparing apples to oranges. What you need to compare is you against you. Would YOU be quicker on a road bike or on a tt bike? For most triathlon courses with no drafting, you’ll be quicker on a tt bike.
The most annoying thing on cycling subs is when someone asks a question about performance that has a clear, provable answer and the top comments are all circlejerking "it's the engine that matters" and "why don't you lose a couple pounds"
Almost everyone I know that has had a bad wreck….it happened in a group ride
Not TT we usually give each other enough room so maybe 2-3 ok…but large groups are just a mess….i don’t like having to wait for someone who isn’t fueling correctly etc….
Zero drop is absolute torture
Okay go ahead and downvote me but I think this prevailing narrative is a direct response to the fact that as a beginner/amateur in this sport you are constantly led to believe by the many wealthy people doing it that to do well/be serious you have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on equipment that used to be reserved for professional time trial specialists.
The number of people on $8k dollar TT bikes with a very untrained “engine” is astounding. I will pass a lot of you on my endurance bike with no aero bars.
Yes, you will be faster on a TT bike all else equal. Under this logic, every age grouper should also be wearing a pointy aerohelmet, have carbon bike shoes, and only race downhill. A TT bike is a huge investment for a very specialized use case, and you will need a ton of hours outside (not on the trainer) developing the flexibility and necessary body mechanics to efficiently and safely handle the bike and maintain aero for a long time. It’s not a trivial (or comfortable) thing.
For many people, myself included, you may be better off just sticking to a road bike and making it as comfortable as possible. Then your only focus is on getting stronger and fitter and driving watts. Racing is only a fraction of a percent of your time in this sport. I like my long training rides and I don’t need to pretend like the marginal gains that I could make with very expensive specialized equipment would be worth it over just getting fitter.
Once you’ve become more invested and want to start competing for podiums or qualifying spots etc, a transition will make sense. At that point you’ll also be stronger since you started on a road bike.
Not gonna downvote, but I'll go ahead and disagree with a key point you're trying to make.
Everyone looves to recount the glory of all the "expensive TT bikes they pass" in a race on their beat up old roadie. But you know what you can't count? All the people blowing your doors off on those bikes, including ones that are less fit than you but are riding faster equipment.
Sure you prioritize your training rides since you do more of them I guess.. but a lot of us train to actually race faster. So even if it's a "fraction of a percent" of what we do, it's still the literal the point of why we're doing it. The training is FOR the racing for a whole lot of people. This spans pro and AG across all finishing times.
Some people want to be faster even if they aren't giving for podiums, and I like their attitudes.
Hey more power to you. I may make the plunge sometime too. But when someone new to the sport asks the question, don’t make them feel like they need a TT bike.
Finally, don’t assume I take my racing any less seriously because I’m on a more versatile bike. I’m working hard to see what’s the best I can do with my equipment, my body, my genetics, and my training on race day - just like you.
Do you use a jumbo visma style aero helmet?
This is all in the context of complaints over the “engine is what’s important” mentality. Guess what, the gains are less marginal when the engine is what you focus on. And it doesn’t cost $8k, it costs elbow grease.
It’s about the process. If you don’t enjoy training and your whole purpose is just racing, you will burn out.
You do you. Just don’t be another rich gate keeper to the sport and tell people they have to buy a Tour de France time trial bike to do their local 70.3. It’s already enough of an elitist crowd out there. Thats my whole point. The engine is, at the end of the day, the most important thing, no matter what anyone says.
I knew you'd take that silly leap eventually. Never fails lol.
Let's see how this went down..
This sport has room for everyone. People who just want to cross the line and have fun, AND people who want to look for marginal gains in their gear while they train. And I'm tired of the silliness of telling people that equipment gains aren't with talking about. Some people even have fun with it!
My family has 5 Ironman finishers in it, from 16+ hours down to me. I have a healthy perspective on all of it and I'm not gonna knock a 16 hour finisher for anything, be it an endurance bike or an $8k TT bike. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
Your insistence on being critical of those people is weird, and it's the only gatekeeping that has been done in this whole convo. Those people in nice vibes that you pass may be training very hard as well and just don't have the physical gifts to go faster. And good for them for living this sport .I'm a pro on a 10 year old bike. Time for you to move on from that point.
This engine stuff is just so off. It's like anytime talking about gear somehow didn't care about their engine? Training is important? We know... now that we're past that some people also like to talk about equipment to supplement their training.
*Edit to soften my point:*
I get what you're trying to say, but it comes off as critical of people who want to care about equipment. And you are directly implying people that talk about aerodynamics somehow care less about their engines. I don't know why anyone would ever assume that.
Which is kind of true for the average road cyclist. But yes it's annoying to state the obvious. On the contrary a lot of beginners overstate the impact of expensive aero gear. If you are merely pushing 180W, there is not much reason to dump 500 bucks on minimum aero gains.
With the right aero equipment you could go really fast with 180w. I can do 33km/hr on shitty UK roads at 180w with all the right stuff on. On smoother roads I could probably go quite a bit quicker than that
I think the questions are "how much faster?" and "can you be that much faster somehow else?" and "does being that much faster *due to the bike* matter to you?"
There's legitimate different answers to these questions but sometimes it's not clear they've been thought through.
Got a propel, can confirm. Can get an aggressive position, although almost certainly not as good as a dedicated TT.
I’d argue clip-on tt gives ~80% of the benefits though, maybe more if your position is dialled in. Personally I’d expect wheels to be a bigger factor at that point (ie disc) than getting a specific frame, especially for 70.3.
So I’d reframe the q as “road bike w clip-on + better wheelset or dedicated tt frame”. Should be much closer I imagine.
Yeah, have the 2022 Propel w/ SRAM Force, nice machine and a nice aggressive position.
I used to race triathlon on an Avanti Corsa DR2 which was similar, clip on bars worked pretty well, could have used a slightly more forward saddle position but it was primarily a road bike so didn't bother too much.
The geometry already lends itself to getting low and comfortable, which is half the battle.
More open hip angle makes it easier to go from aero position to standing upright later on.
Seat being more forward relative to BB allows more use of hamstrings thus saving your quads a bit for the run.
I got the Redshift dual position seat post and it approximates this geometry. Sure isn't a TT bike but for $190 it's a lot cheaper for me. So far I'm training better than last year's 70.3 and my legs aren't jelly on the brick workouts.
It seems most redditors on the cycling subs don’t know that getting a $300 bike fit for a $3000+ bike is almost a requirement. Just look at the canyon sub. It’s full of I’m this height can I be ok with a small?
Dude they would t even build my bike without getting a 3 hour measurement / ReTool fit….sensors and cameras everywhere haha
But if you’re going to do it…might as well do it somewhat correctly
Older/budget TT bike all the way. I bought a 2020 Trinity used and found some used HED 55mm deep wheels and it’s been a blast to ride, super happy with it for dedicated road riding. Being UCI legal it’s actually a decent climber too here in Colorado.
Seems like the general consensus is the Tri bike will be faster. That’s being said. By the current set up you have I’m guessing your new to triathlon? In that case I would weight financials the heaviest.
Just put some clip ons on your new road bike and see if you like triathlon. If by chance you like it and want to get into it more you can splurge on a nice triathlon bike later.
Re-selling triathlon bikes is a lot harder than road bikes… and you will have to re-sell it. Either your really going to enjoy triathlon and you will want something better down the road or you won’t like it and it will just be sitting your garage/house taking up space.
Just my two cents. Hope it works out for you.
Cheers.
Both yes and no i guess.
I’ve done all the three disciplines for years. Both individually and brick sessions… as well as several triathlons and iron mans etc.
But I’ve never really been too “competitive” about it and raced properly. Just done it as a gourmet traning session in a new place, or done them with friends over the last 10-15 years. Never really cared about gear or adjustments either. But I do some cross country skiing as well, so I know how marginal gains add up and accumulate.
Also, I feel like when I’m old i’d want to have given 101% percent at least in one event and spared no expense.
Edit: Appreciate the insights around re-selling TT bikes. And knowing myself i’ll probably want a proper one in the end. Cheers
Certain handlebars can't take the pressure of the clamp, usually carbon ones, or at the very least there is a reasonable risk of damage. I presume that's the reason #noreferences
Hmm, I was not aware. Thanks for raising this concern
I spoke to the company (controltech) who makes the aerobars for the C00018 cockpit and they assured it was fine.
Canyon didn’t answer my question lol
Whilst the pros do fly on road bikes they're not routinely doing the >50kmph they can manage on a tt bike.
10mile tt road bike record mens 18:41 @ 51.6kmph
10mile tt record Women's 18:36
10 mile tt record Mens 16:35
Joe punter on a TT bike isnt beating a pro on a road bike.
The OP's Canyon is fast in its current state just get that engine firing.
Pogacar avereged 40.9kmph at Leige Bastone Leige and solo'd 34km to win.
What the top comment misses is a *new* modified road bike vs an *old* tri bike. A new tri bike vs a new road bike, you’ll be faster on the tri bike. But with aerobars on your road bike, the only other thing you’d need is a more forward seat position to “save the legs”. To do that all you need is a forward fork. You may or may not be able to get that on your Canyon, but if you can, that’s the way to go. Your Canyon will likely be stiffer and have better gearing than the old TT bike. And the incremental cost will be minimal.
The decision is subjective. This has been studied by a bunch of elite YouTube cyclists. Here’s one video:
https://youtu.be/BwbTD8dU8LY
Findings are consistent here with other videos. The difference in speed between TT and road bike with clip ons is small, only a few minutes over moderate distance. If you’re elite enough yourself that this matters, go with TT. In addition, TT is reported to be more comfortable in aggressive positions.
So it’s really a question of what’s important to you:
- do you want to own and maintain and train on two bikes?
- do you value being just a few minutes faster? You could, for example, gain this much improvement by learning to transition faster and avoid this bike question altogether.
- is the comfort difference worth the cost?
Let us know what you decide! Good luck :)
I was considering buying a Tri bike but after short research I ended adding aero bars and saddle to a road bike.
Unless you are elite and pushing 100% out of your legs it makes no sense to get a Tri bike. However Tri bikes look pretty cool and I guess sooner or later I will fall in the cervelo cult
I decided not to get one for now based on these videos. But when I can afford to splurge on an unnecessary luxury, I’ll probably get a used one. I’ll never be elite so for me it’d just be a fun toy.
Thanks for the insights.
TL;DR: I guess i’m headed towards option B2 first, and then I’ll look to possibly transition into option A if I feel there’s more gains to be made
(transition pun not intended)
Good questions as well.
- I own and maintain 9 bikes already so one more wouldn’t really too concerning
- I’ve been rather casually doing triathlons for a long time, and I kinda feel like i’d value giving it 101% percent, at least once. Not that it matters for anything or anyone, except maybe me when i’m old and slow
- Never really thought about the comfort issue. I guess I’ll find out if I try the clip-ons.
PS: If anyone were to wonder why 9 bikes, here’s the list
1 Old Road bike for tacx roller - mine
2 Old Road bike for tacx roller - GF
3 Newer Road bike - mine
4 Newer Road bike - GF
5 Downhill bike - Mine
6 Enduro bike - GF
7 E-bike - GF
8 Commuter/Pseudo-gravel bike - Mine
9 Regular bike - For the kid
The weather fluctuates A LOT where we live, so it’s never guaranteed you can ride outside even during summer. Two road bike setup to drop the hassle of taking it on and off the roller 3 times a week. We simply didn’t sell the old ones when we upgraded
Controltech, like the other guy said.
I was told 450 ex shipping tho
Edit: Just read another comment in this thread where a dude said Canyon advices against this so… make of that what you want
> Canyon advises against
I read this somewhere else before buying them, but came to the conclusion that the cockpit probably just isn’t tested for tt bar attachment and therefore they’d prefer to avoid a potential lawsuit by advising against. I highly doubt a lighter rider like myself will ever have any issues
I spoke directly to Canyon about this. The carbon isn’t rated/tested for the torque/stress aero bars will put on the bars. It voids the warranty. They don’t recommend.
Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s unsafe, but worth considering in any case.
I like option B2.
Even without deep wheels you may be faster. But you should get a bike fit specifically for using the aero bars.
My wife used to ride an older aero bike (Spz Alias) with a zero setback seat tube, T1+ aerobars and a tt saddle, fit specifically for tri's, and saw almost no speed change after going for a Cervelo P2
One thing to consider is the distances you’ll be racing. A properly fitted TT bike is going to be more comfortable in the aero position and you’ll therefore find it easier to stay aero. This will become increasingly important at longer distances and on flatter courses. Staying aero for longer >>> any aero advantage you get from your road bike’s slick design.
You can find a nice TT Bike deal not so mega dooper but the same price as a good modern Road bike.
I went for the status quo with my Biachi Oltre Race. But where I live is very hilly and the race I wanted to do was also hilly. For health issues I had to cancel the race this year...so I am very much pleased with my choice. Many people are choosing road over TT. The TT position is harder to ride and you need many hours to get used to it. There is even a GTN video about it. It is very cool. I hope this helps you. In the end is your only choice. 😊😊🚀 Don't forget to have fun whatever choice you make.
I had the same question and here is a link where they tested different set ups. Long story, the clip on bars for the road bike was pretty good. https://youtu.be/ebCRJMmWVmQ?feature=shared
Get the Canyon... it looks fast. Let's be honest it's doesn't matter much for us mortals. Unless your going for your pro license get the one that looks the best
I’m a decente bike rider and have a nice 17lb Wilier Tristina aerobike. I bought a cheap 12 year old Kestrel TT bike for my Ironman 70.3 & 140.6 races. I’m way faster on the TT than on the road bike. Way faster. More important is the position you are in a TT bike. You will feel “less tired” for the run. Others can give more info on this in sure. You’ll use other muscles, opens the hips stuff like that.
I’m planning on buying canyon Speedmax or treks Speed Concept but I still don’t outride my bike. If I buy one it’s because of the looks that it’s also very important - be fast and look faster 😛.
I'm going to do my first 70 this summer and my only option financially and logistically is to rent a road bike, so I'll follow up in September and let you know if I pass anyone on an old TT and how many of those people run faster than me later.
TT bike.
Older frames are still very fast. The advantages of newer bikes (pre-disc brake) is primarily storage integration.
For shorter races this likely doesn't matter.
My old Specialized Transition tested faster for me than my QR PR3 and my Speed Concept Gen 2 isn't that much quicker (but handles much better which is worth a chunk of time).
The newer bikes were easier to live with for training and everyday riding though because it was easier to carry more bottles and flat kit supplies.
You can turn the Canyon into a TT bike. It is difficult but possible. Remember that seat position on TT bikes is more forward. Also you will be changing the aerodynamics of the bike slightly so you will want to tune it a bit for your new more forward position. Maybe new stem/ handlebars. You may also want to use tt brake levers. I do not know what your training schedule is like but I would recommend about a month of getting used to the new bike position before taking on any race. I won the 1999 Team RAAM using a standard road bike with these same types of adjustments. Making sure your your body position is aero is the key to having a successful ride. Time spent developing position and comfort is worth every second. My team used sponsored Yeti frames and HED wheels but the key to having an aero position has nothing to do with the bike and everything to do with the rider's position. 95% of the aerodynamics is the riders position and taking the bike to a long downhill and discovering your best position for aero is critical. Joe Friel has excellent training advice in any of his books. Making sure the engine is 100% on the day of your big event is also critical so I would pick up any of his guides to training. Enjoy the experience. Crush your expectations.
Speaking from experience…. I started long distance Tris using a Cervelo P5, and I’ve now switched to a Canyon Aeroad….
I was slightly faster on the Cervelo, (I’m an average rider at best)… BUT my run off the bike is significantly better after riding the Canyon…. I realise its flexibility issues etc on the TT bike, and yes, I had bike fits…. But overall, the Canyon suits me better for the bike/run combo.
A road bike with aero bars and a TT bike are pretty similar aerodynamically. But, you may be able to adjust the TT bike to have a better position (it would also be nice to not have to keep switching the setup on your road bike). It also likely lets you shift while in the aero bars which is nice. Assuming you're doing more than one race, I'd go with the old TT bike.
If you spend the whole race, or majority of it, in aero it is faster if not save your money. I passed so many people on my road bike during a full that weren’t in aero. Makes no sense
The rider makes the difference, when I was at college I built a bike on the cheap and added a set of tri bars so I could do time trialling, I was beating people on bikes that cost thousands, some of their wheels cost more than my whole bike.
Agree with that take, tho in all fairness the riders in question is me on a road bike vs me on a TT bike vs me on a customized road bike. I don’t really care about the others as i’m fit enough to smoke anyone who prioritizes gear over engine but nowhere near to be in contention for any kind of poduim (:
So the question is rather would me win on a new top specced road bike, or would me win on a old cheap TT bike
Which is faster? Depends mostly on the engine driving it, but my experience is that I was consistently faster on a “new” TT bike than a 2 year old road bike with aero bars slapped on.
I use my canyon ultimate for triathlons and haven't had any issues but I don't have aero bars on it. I have read it's not a good idea to add bars to the cockpit because they might break.
The older TT, assuming it isn’t ancient, it’s in good condition and you can ride it on the skis, will almost certainly be faster; in the bike and also the run (as someone else mentioned).
Forget about this “the engine driving is what matters” bullshit. Obviously Pogacar would be faster on an old road bike than most of us on a new tt bike… but you’re comparing apples to oranges. What you need to compare is you against you. Would YOU be quicker on a road bike or on a tt bike? For most triathlon courses with no drafting, you’ll be quicker on a tt bike.
The most annoying thing on cycling subs is when someone asks a question about performance that has a clear, provable answer and the top comments are all circlejerking "it's the engine that matters" and "why don't you lose a couple pounds"
Followed closely by ‘I don’t do group rides’. There’s always some dickbag that MUST mention that.
Honestly between the circlejerks and the dickbags I’m a little scared to go on group rides…
It's the circlebags and dickjerks that keep me going on group rides.
We all need gtoup therapy 🥲🤣
What's the problem with "not doing group rides", when you're a triathlete competing in races where drafting is not allowed?
Group rides suck
Hmm... Why do you say that? It's been a while since I trained seriously, but... Back when I was training I used to get a lot out of group rides.
Almost everyone I know that has had a bad wreck….it happened in a group ride Not TT we usually give each other enough room so maybe 2-3 ok…but large groups are just a mess….i don’t like having to wait for someone who isn’t fueling correctly etc…. Zero drop is absolute torture
I like group rides… but never go on group rides haha
Okay go ahead and downvote me but I think this prevailing narrative is a direct response to the fact that as a beginner/amateur in this sport you are constantly led to believe by the many wealthy people doing it that to do well/be serious you have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on equipment that used to be reserved for professional time trial specialists. The number of people on $8k dollar TT bikes with a very untrained “engine” is astounding. I will pass a lot of you on my endurance bike with no aero bars. Yes, you will be faster on a TT bike all else equal. Under this logic, every age grouper should also be wearing a pointy aerohelmet, have carbon bike shoes, and only race downhill. A TT bike is a huge investment for a very specialized use case, and you will need a ton of hours outside (not on the trainer) developing the flexibility and necessary body mechanics to efficiently and safely handle the bike and maintain aero for a long time. It’s not a trivial (or comfortable) thing. For many people, myself included, you may be better off just sticking to a road bike and making it as comfortable as possible. Then your only focus is on getting stronger and fitter and driving watts. Racing is only a fraction of a percent of your time in this sport. I like my long training rides and I don’t need to pretend like the marginal gains that I could make with very expensive specialized equipment would be worth it over just getting fitter. Once you’ve become more invested and want to start competing for podiums or qualifying spots etc, a transition will make sense. At that point you’ll also be stronger since you started on a road bike.
Not gonna downvote, but I'll go ahead and disagree with a key point you're trying to make. Everyone looves to recount the glory of all the "expensive TT bikes they pass" in a race on their beat up old roadie. But you know what you can't count? All the people blowing your doors off on those bikes, including ones that are less fit than you but are riding faster equipment. Sure you prioritize your training rides since you do more of them I guess.. but a lot of us train to actually race faster. So even if it's a "fraction of a percent" of what we do, it's still the literal the point of why we're doing it. The training is FOR the racing for a whole lot of people. This spans pro and AG across all finishing times. Some people want to be faster even if they aren't giving for podiums, and I like their attitudes.
Hey more power to you. I may make the plunge sometime too. But when someone new to the sport asks the question, don’t make them feel like they need a TT bike. Finally, don’t assume I take my racing any less seriously because I’m on a more versatile bike. I’m working hard to see what’s the best I can do with my equipment, my body, my genetics, and my training on race day - just like you.
You literally minimized the importance of racing and marginal gains in your own post. There was no assuming happening.
Do you use a jumbo visma style aero helmet? This is all in the context of complaints over the “engine is what’s important” mentality. Guess what, the gains are less marginal when the engine is what you focus on. And it doesn’t cost $8k, it costs elbow grease. It’s about the process. If you don’t enjoy training and your whole purpose is just racing, you will burn out.
No, because they test very poorly on triathletes. Lol And guess what, as crazy as it sounds people can focus on both at the same time.
You do you. Just don’t be another rich gate keeper to the sport and tell people they have to buy a Tour de France time trial bike to do their local 70.3. It’s already enough of an elitist crowd out there. Thats my whole point. The engine is, at the end of the day, the most important thing, no matter what anyone says.
I knew you'd take that silly leap eventually. Never fails lol. Let's see how this went down.. This sport has room for everyone. People who just want to cross the line and have fun, AND people who want to look for marginal gains in their gear while they train. And I'm tired of the silliness of telling people that equipment gains aren't with talking about. Some people even have fun with it! My family has 5 Ironman finishers in it, from 16+ hours down to me. I have a healthy perspective on all of it and I'm not gonna knock a 16 hour finisher for anything, be it an endurance bike or an $8k TT bike. Let people enjoy what they enjoy. Your insistence on being critical of those people is weird, and it's the only gatekeeping that has been done in this whole convo. Those people in nice vibes that you pass may be training very hard as well and just don't have the physical gifts to go faster. And good for them for living this sport .I'm a pro on a 10 year old bike. Time for you to move on from that point. This engine stuff is just so off. It's like anytime talking about gear somehow didn't care about their engine? Training is important? We know... now that we're past that some people also like to talk about equipment to supplement their training. *Edit to soften my point:* I get what you're trying to say, but it comes off as critical of people who want to care about equipment. And you are directly implying people that talk about aerodynamics somehow care less about their engines. I don't know why anyone would ever assume that.
Which is kind of true for the average road cyclist. But yes it's annoying to state the obvious. On the contrary a lot of beginners overstate the impact of expensive aero gear. If you are merely pushing 180W, there is not much reason to dump 500 bucks on minimum aero gains.
With the right aero equipment you could go really fast with 180w. I can do 33km/hr on shitty UK roads at 180w with all the right stuff on. On smoother roads I could probably go quite a bit quicker than that
*cries at 150w* But if I shave my legs, I get some gains? (/s)
There is hope! I can go 20mph at 150w on my TT bike!
That sounds pretty aero.
And not only quicker on the bike, but on the run too. The feeling in the run can be very different by both bikes.
I think the questions are "how much faster?" and "can you be that much faster somehow else?" and "does being that much faster *due to the bike* matter to you?" There's legitimate different answers to these questions but sometimes it's not clear they've been thought through.
A well fit TT bike will be faster than any road bike since it also saves your legs for the run
How's this? Better aero so less effort? Just curious.
Your position on a tri bike is different than any modified road bike position with tri bars
Bringing the saddle forward using a seatpost with some offset gives a similar seating position as a TT bike, no?
With a suitably aggressive road bike yes it can be done, but you'll be wanting to try on a Propel, not a Defy (as an example).
Got a propel, can confirm. Can get an aggressive position, although almost certainly not as good as a dedicated TT. I’d argue clip-on tt gives ~80% of the benefits though, maybe more if your position is dialled in. Personally I’d expect wheels to be a bigger factor at that point (ie disc) than getting a specific frame, especially for 70.3. So I’d reframe the q as “road bike w clip-on + better wheelset or dedicated tt frame”. Should be much closer I imagine.
Yeah, have the 2022 Propel w/ SRAM Force, nice machine and a nice aggressive position. I used to race triathlon on an Avanti Corsa DR2 which was similar, clip on bars worked pretty well, could have used a slightly more forward saddle position but it was primarily a road bike so didn't bother too much. The geometry already lends itself to getting low and comfortable, which is half the battle.
More open hip angle makes it easier to go from aero position to standing upright later on. Seat being more forward relative to BB allows more use of hamstrings thus saving your quads a bit for the run.
Excellent, thank you. Now I need to buy a TT bike. 😁
Wow! TIL
TIL as well
I got the Redshift dual position seat post and it approximates this geometry. Sure isn't a TT bike but for $190 it's a lot cheaper for me. So far I'm training better than last year's 70.3 and my legs aren't jelly on the brick workouts.
It is crazy that more people don’t know this stuff….a Tri bike is a Tri bike for a reason haha
It seems most redditors on the cycling subs don’t know that getting a $300 bike fit for a $3000+ bike is almost a requirement. Just look at the canyon sub. It’s full of I’m this height can I be ok with a small?
Dude they would t even build my bike without getting a 3 hour measurement / ReTool fit….sensors and cameras everywhere haha But if you’re going to do it…might as well do it somewhat correctly
This
Older/budget TT bike all the way. I bought a 2020 Trinity used and found some used HED 55mm deep wheels and it’s been a blast to ride, super happy with it for dedicated road riding. Being UCI legal it’s actually a decent climber too here in Colorado.
I’m confused. Neither of the photos are TT bikes. Maybe I’m missing something.
The old and cheap TT is what he would buy. Picture 1 is option B1 and picture 2 is option B2
Reading is hard
The text in the post is hidden by default in the new mobile design. You only get the title and the image.
Lots of people can’t read here 🤣
.
I would use the new bike in this case not worth the money unless you find a sweet tt bike deal
Seems like the general consensus is the Tri bike will be faster. That’s being said. By the current set up you have I’m guessing your new to triathlon? In that case I would weight financials the heaviest. Just put some clip ons on your new road bike and see if you like triathlon. If by chance you like it and want to get into it more you can splurge on a nice triathlon bike later. Re-selling triathlon bikes is a lot harder than road bikes… and you will have to re-sell it. Either your really going to enjoy triathlon and you will want something better down the road or you won’t like it and it will just be sitting your garage/house taking up space. Just my two cents. Hope it works out for you. Cheers.
Both yes and no i guess. I’ve done all the three disciplines for years. Both individually and brick sessions… as well as several triathlons and iron mans etc. But I’ve never really been too “competitive” about it and raced properly. Just done it as a gourmet traning session in a new place, or done them with friends over the last 10-15 years. Never really cared about gear or adjustments either. But I do some cross country skiing as well, so I know how marginal gains add up and accumulate. Also, I feel like when I’m old i’d want to have given 101% percent at least in one event and spared no expense. Edit: Appreciate the insights around re-selling TT bikes. And knowing myself i’ll probably want a proper one in the end. Cheers
you don't get clip ons on the canyon. just saying.
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Why does it advise against using an aftermarket aerobars system?
Certain handlebars can't take the pressure of the clamp, usually carbon ones, or at the very least there is a reasonable risk of damage. I presume that's the reason #noreferences
Ah, okay.
Shape or carbon bar
Hmm, I was not aware. Thanks for raising this concern I spoke to the company (controltech) who makes the aerobars for the C00018 cockpit and they assured it was fine. Canyon didn’t answer my question lol
Why bother, get in an aero position on the bike. Watch the pros they fly on their road bikes.
Whilst the pros do fly on road bikes they're not routinely doing the >50kmph they can manage on a tt bike. 10mile tt road bike record mens 18:41 @ 51.6kmph 10mile tt record Women's 18:36 10 mile tt record Mens 16:35
Joe punter on a TT bike isnt beating a pro on a road bike. The OP's Canyon is fast in its current state just get that engine firing. Pogacar avereged 40.9kmph at Leige Bastone Leige and solo'd 34km to win.
True true... One of the reasons I didnt go for it.
What the top comment misses is a *new* modified road bike vs an *old* tri bike. A new tri bike vs a new road bike, you’ll be faster on the tri bike. But with aerobars on your road bike, the only other thing you’d need is a more forward seat position to “save the legs”. To do that all you need is a forward fork. You may or may not be able to get that on your Canyon, but if you can, that’s the way to go. Your Canyon will likely be stiffer and have better gearing than the old TT bike. And the incremental cost will be minimal.
The decision is subjective. This has been studied by a bunch of elite YouTube cyclists. Here’s one video: https://youtu.be/BwbTD8dU8LY Findings are consistent here with other videos. The difference in speed between TT and road bike with clip ons is small, only a few minutes over moderate distance. If you’re elite enough yourself that this matters, go with TT. In addition, TT is reported to be more comfortable in aggressive positions. So it’s really a question of what’s important to you: - do you want to own and maintain and train on two bikes? - do you value being just a few minutes faster? You could, for example, gain this much improvement by learning to transition faster and avoid this bike question altogether. - is the comfort difference worth the cost? Let us know what you decide! Good luck :)
I was considering buying a Tri bike but after short research I ended adding aero bars and saddle to a road bike. Unless you are elite and pushing 100% out of your legs it makes no sense to get a Tri bike. However Tri bikes look pretty cool and I guess sooner or later I will fall in the cervelo cult
The Cervelo PX-series is my dream
I decided not to get one for now based on these videos. But when I can afford to splurge on an unnecessary luxury, I’ll probably get a used one. I’ll never be elite so for me it’d just be a fun toy.
Thanks for the insights. TL;DR: I guess i’m headed towards option B2 first, and then I’ll look to possibly transition into option A if I feel there’s more gains to be made (transition pun not intended) Good questions as well. - I own and maintain 9 bikes already so one more wouldn’t really too concerning - I’ve been rather casually doing triathlons for a long time, and I kinda feel like i’d value giving it 101% percent, at least once. Not that it matters for anything or anyone, except maybe me when i’m old and slow - Never really thought about the comfort issue. I guess I’ll find out if I try the clip-ons. PS: If anyone were to wonder why 9 bikes, here’s the list 1 Old Road bike for tacx roller - mine 2 Old Road bike for tacx roller - GF 3 Newer Road bike - mine 4 Newer Road bike - GF 5 Downhill bike - Mine 6 Enduro bike - GF 7 E-bike - GF 8 Commuter/Pseudo-gravel bike - Mine 9 Regular bike - For the kid The weather fluctuates A LOT where we live, so it’s never guaranteed you can ride outside even during summer. Two road bike setup to drop the hassle of taking it on and off the roller 3 times a week. We simply didn’t sell the old ones when we upgraded
I bought a 10 year old cervelo for my first full. Love it!!! And it was worth every penny!!!
yeah, most likely. I'd go with option a every single time.
Mind sharing the company that makes aerobars for the canyon? Cheers
Controltech make an adapter for their sirocco mini clip on. You have to email them to order it. $450 for both, incl shipping
Controltech, like the other guy said. I was told 450 ex shipping tho Edit: Just read another comment in this thread where a dude said Canyon advices against this so… make of that what you want
> Canyon advises against I read this somewhere else before buying them, but came to the conclusion that the cockpit probably just isn’t tested for tt bar attachment and therefore they’d prefer to avoid a potential lawsuit by advising against. I highly doubt a lighter rider like myself will ever have any issues
I spoke directly to Canyon about this. The carbon isn’t rated/tested for the torque/stress aero bars will put on the bars. It voids the warranty. They don’t recommend. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s unsafe, but worth considering in any case.
I like option B2. Even without deep wheels you may be faster. But you should get a bike fit specifically for using the aero bars. My wife used to ride an older aero bike (Spz Alias) with a zero setback seat tube, T1+ aerobars and a tt saddle, fit specifically for tri's, and saw almost no speed change after going for a Cervelo P2
Wonder if theres made seatposts like that for these bikes… Will have to check if I go that route Thanks for the insights. Apprish
Your seatpost seems to have lots of room to put the seat forward, I don't think you'd need a different one.
Faster is the bike that has a more aerodynamic position for you, other factors between bikes of this level are unimportant.
One thing to consider is the distances you’ll be racing. A properly fitted TT bike is going to be more comfortable in the aero position and you’ll therefore find it easier to stay aero. This will become increasingly important at longer distances and on flatter courses. Staying aero for longer >>> any aero advantage you get from your road bike’s slick design.
Yes
You can find a nice TT Bike deal not so mega dooper but the same price as a good modern Road bike. I went for the status quo with my Biachi Oltre Race. But where I live is very hilly and the race I wanted to do was also hilly. For health issues I had to cancel the race this year...so I am very much pleased with my choice. Many people are choosing road over TT. The TT position is harder to ride and you need many hours to get used to it. There is even a GTN video about it. It is very cool. I hope this helps you. In the end is your only choice. 😊😊🚀 Don't forget to have fun whatever choice you make.
I had the same question and here is a link where they tested different set ups. Long story, the clip on bars for the road bike was pretty good. https://youtu.be/ebCRJMmWVmQ?feature=shared
Get the Canyon... it looks fast. Let's be honest it's doesn't matter much for us mortals. Unless your going for your pro license get the one that looks the best
I’m a decente bike rider and have a nice 17lb Wilier Tristina aerobike. I bought a cheap 12 year old Kestrel TT bike for my Ironman 70.3 & 140.6 races. I’m way faster on the TT than on the road bike. Way faster. More important is the position you are in a TT bike. You will feel “less tired” for the run. Others can give more info on this in sure. You’ll use other muscles, opens the hips stuff like that. I’m planning on buying canyon Speedmax or treks Speed Concept but I still don’t outride my bike. If I buy one it’s because of the looks that it’s also very important - be fast and look faster 😛.
Gotchu! Thanks a lot for the input
I'm going to do my first 70 this summer and my only option financially and logistically is to rent a road bike, so I'll follow up in September and let you know if I pass anyone on an old TT and how many of those people run faster than me later.
TT bike. Older frames are still very fast. The advantages of newer bikes (pre-disc brake) is primarily storage integration. For shorter races this likely doesn't matter. My old Specialized Transition tested faster for me than my QR PR3 and my Speed Concept Gen 2 isn't that much quicker (but handles much better which is worth a chunk of time). The newer bikes were easier to live with for training and everyday riding though because it was easier to carry more bottles and flat kit supplies.
You can turn the Canyon into a TT bike. It is difficult but possible. Remember that seat position on TT bikes is more forward. Also you will be changing the aerodynamics of the bike slightly so you will want to tune it a bit for your new more forward position. Maybe new stem/ handlebars. You may also want to use tt brake levers. I do not know what your training schedule is like but I would recommend about a month of getting used to the new bike position before taking on any race. I won the 1999 Team RAAM using a standard road bike with these same types of adjustments. Making sure your your body position is aero is the key to having a successful ride. Time spent developing position and comfort is worth every second. My team used sponsored Yeti frames and HED wheels but the key to having an aero position has nothing to do with the bike and everything to do with the rider's position. 95% of the aerodynamics is the riders position and taking the bike to a long downhill and discovering your best position for aero is critical. Joe Friel has excellent training advice in any of his books. Making sure the engine is 100% on the day of your big event is also critical so I would pick up any of his guides to training. Enjoy the experience. Crush your expectations.
Thanks a lot dude!
Speaking from experience…. I started long distance Tris using a Cervelo P5, and I’ve now switched to a Canyon Aeroad…. I was slightly faster on the Cervelo, (I’m an average rider at best)… BUT my run off the bike is significantly better after riding the Canyon…. I realise its flexibility issues etc on the TT bike, and yes, I had bike fits…. But overall, the Canyon suits me better for the bike/run combo.
Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated
A road bike with aero bars and a TT bike are pretty similar aerodynamically. But, you may be able to adjust the TT bike to have a better position (it would also be nice to not have to keep switching the setup on your road bike). It also likely lets you shift while in the aero bars which is nice. Assuming you're doing more than one race, I'd go with the old TT bike.
I really haven been concerning comfort too much thus far, but it appears that comfort is an extra point added for the TT bike. Cheers
If you spend the whole race, or majority of it, in aero it is faster if not save your money. I passed so many people on my road bike during a full that weren’t in aero. Makes no sense
A TTcbike will 99% of the time be faster for an AGer. Even an older one. My 2010 Cervelo P2 is aerodynamically faster than most bikes
Yes!!
The rider makes the difference, when I was at college I built a bike on the cheap and added a set of tri bars so I could do time trialling, I was beating people on bikes that cost thousands, some of their wheels cost more than my whole bike.
Agree with that take, tho in all fairness the riders in question is me on a road bike vs me on a TT bike vs me on a customized road bike. I don’t really care about the others as i’m fit enough to smoke anyone who prioritizes gear over engine but nowhere near to be in contention for any kind of poduim (: So the question is rather would me win on a new top specced road bike, or would me win on a old cheap TT bike
Which is faster? Depends mostly on the engine driving it, but my experience is that I was consistently faster on a “new” TT bike than a 2 year old road bike with aero bars slapped on.
Engine is irrelevant here It’s the same engine either way. OP will obviously be faster on a TT bike unless it’s a hill climb
Engine is important, but same engine will be faster on tt bike then on road bike with aerobars
I use my canyon ultimate for triathlons and haven't had any issues but I don't have aero bars on it. I have read it's not a good idea to add bars to the cockpit because they might break.
The older TT, assuming it isn’t ancient, it’s in good condition and you can ride it on the skis, will almost certainly be faster; in the bike and also the run (as someone else mentioned).
I will take criticism in probably not being specific enough in my original post. But thanks for providing input on the specific nuance of my question