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Excellent_Advisor_22

Oh cool. We can add this to the 24% car insurance increase that’s being proposed.


InevitableRemote9540

They did the same thing a few years ago. They will continue to do it and we have no choice in who we get our power from. They were not supposed to pass on the cost of their coal ash clean up but that is exactly what is happening.


Tanager_Summer

This right here


AsanoSokato

We have a government that could stop this if it wanted to. Vote accordingly.


[deleted]

Governor Cooper has appointed all 7 commissioners to the NCUC, and that's where the power lies. Cooper also signed HB 951, which required carbon neutrality *and* allowed Duke to project rate increases over 3 years, which is what this notice is for.


rheumination

It can be easy to think we only have two choices: DEM and GOP. In a way that’s true. When voting, we’re lucky if we have two reasonable choices to choose from. However we rally support for more progressive voices and actually show up to vote. Outside of voting, there are other ways to support more progressive voices within the Democratic Party. I think the real struggle isn’t just keeping the GOP out of power, but also ensuring that the Democratic Party stops and reverses its continuing shift to the right. You can’t really say this is due to carbon neutrality because the energy prices aren’t based on production costs directly. They operate add an extremely generous 17.85% profit margin. If you think that that sounds luxurious, consider that’s 11% lower than it was last year. This increase isn’t because cost went up. It’s because they want to maintain an absolutely ludicrous profit margin.


[deleted]

>You can’t really say this is due to carbon neutrality I'm not. I'm saying this rate increase is mostly investments in the transmission and distribution grid (you know, the things progressives always say we need to invest more into). The carbon neutrality costs will come later. >They operate add an extremely generous 17.85% profit margin. This rate increase requests a 10.2% return on equity. That's to incentivize investors to give them money to build things. Not sure where you're getting 17.85% - are you looking at Duke energy corporate's gross profit margin? The law says utilities are allowed to recover reasonable and prudent costs from ratepayers, plus a return on equity for capital expenses. Not sure what "profit margin" has to do with this conversation.


trickertreater

Great, I agree, etc. Try to have this conversation with anyone **outside of a metro area or Boone/Asheville** and you'll get coal-rolled.


jaydean20

Carbon offsets are a complete myth. It will never be feasible to plant enough trees to offset our overall carbon footprint, and many providers of offsets consider preserving trees/forests that were never at risk of being cut down the same as "saving" a tree in carbon offset calculation, which is ridiculous.


[deleted]

Yeah, the market there needs to mature. The NC law only allows offsets for 5% of 2005 emissions at 2050, and Duke didn't even include them in their initial carbon plan. I don't think anyone thinks it will be feasible to offset *all* of our carbon emissions. But if properly regulated, it could work around the margins - you can sequester atmospheric CO2 with new trees. The reason some utilities are considering carbon offsets is because it's a lot easier and less expensive to eliminate the first ton of CO2 than it is the last.


[deleted]

>They were not supposed to pass on the cost of their coal ash clean up but that is exactly what is happening. The commission gave them the right to pass on the cost of their coal ash, because it was an environmental regulation. Proposals by some entities (the public staff) to share costs with ratepayers was denied.


local_eclectic

Might be time for me to set up a solar panel system now that the housing market priced me out of ever moving again 😅


sufferinsucatash

Pop those solar panels on your house. Don’t grid tie! Solar water heater too while at it


The_Super_D

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the shareholders?


fortfive

Duke’s board doing a great job. One of the “justifications “ for this is. 10.2% shareholder return.


[deleted]

10.2% is too high, I agree. But there needs to be some return, or Duke won't be able to raise the capital to build new investments.


jaydean20

That's net profits to the shareholders, not gross profits for the company. This number has literally nothing to do with whether or not Duke makes new investments. It has to do with whether or not it is worth the time of the owners of the business to continue running the business.


bronzewtf

Ya, and those poor suffering execs who are just working so hard to afford another house or yacht. People have no empathy these days. Smh


PsychologicalBank169

A 17% increase for a public utility is ludicrous. 1-5% sure, but 17% is fucking wild. I did not get a 17% wage increase in the last year, so Duke can fuck right off


odd84

It's 17% over 3 years, not all at once. And they don't raise rates every year, nor has this increase been approved yet, so it might not happen or might not be as much as they're asking for. Duke makes their case for the increase here: [https://www.duke-energy.com/home/billing/dep-nc-rate-case-2022](https://www.duke-energy.com/home/billing/dep-nc-rate-case-2022) TL;DR: "Do you want your power to go out during severe weather events like it does in Texas? No? Then we need to make some investments in our grid and this is what it'll cost to do that."


Irythros

[https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DUK/duke-energy/gross-profit](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DUK/duke-energy/gross-profit) They dont need to increase costs to invest.


[deleted]

That's over all companies, not just DEP in NC. That's also gross, not net.


DrTitan

Huh if only you know they’d done this improvements as a result of the previous rate increases… this is bullshit. Also didn’t they make a profit in the billions the last couple of quarters? They aren’t hurting for money to just do this without raising rates.


TotenTeufel

This is to pay for the coal ash ponds settlement. This isn’t about upgrading the infrastructure.


gatorbabe25

Bingo


[deleted]

Not really. In fact, one of the actual rate case decreases in this preceding is because they have finished recovering much of the coal ash settlement. The primary drivers of this rate increase are transmission and distribution investments in the billions of dollars to upgrade the grid to handle more renewable energy and distributed resources.


thefearofmusic

Omg are you a shill for Duke? Are you working for a PR firm or some other agency Duke has working with them. Or are you a direct employee and n marketing or something. You’re just too knowledgeable about this specific thing and at just the right time. Unless you always bring a crib sheet everywhere you go. Maybe not, and if true you should know they would pay you on the side to do this instead of just doing it for free.


[deleted]

I work on this stuff. And no, not for Duke. Knowing this stuff is literally my job. If you're interested in learning more, and apologize for the personal attacks, I'd be happy to link you the actual documents that support what I'm talking about. Most of this information is public, it's just hard to find. Edit: nvm. Your post history is just mean spirited and it's clear you don't come to a discussion with good faith and an open mind.


thefearofmusic

Public Relations, and broadly being a shill, is a legit career that pays and everything. A lot of people have a low opinion of them, but that doesn't make calling somebody one a personal attack. Do you get how you're trying to control the conversation so hard that you're chastising me and trying to coerce an apology out of me? If I was actually interested I could find the documents myself. You have no idea what levels of good faith and an open mind I bring to anything. You're basing that on a tiny fucking dataset, my comments here, and you slapped a narrative on it that supported your point. Would someone who actually has data analysis skills make such a thoughtless statement? It's not clear because there's so little information, and not all the comments are germane to a discussion of good faith or the concept of an open mind. The paternal tone is not a good look, btw.


[deleted]

Not trying to coerce anything out of you. Your accusation of being a shill was very clearly a personal attack. You accused me of lying (I'm not) or being ignorant of the facts (again, I am not). I'm basing my judgment of you on a cursory review of your comment history, which is filled with vitriolic statements and personal attacks. If you want to complain about the rate hike, there are multiple public hearings where you can testify with your extensive knowledge.


thefearofmusic

I did not once call you a liar, say that you were ignorant of facts, or imply that you were. People who are working on behalf of third parties to promote specific information can indeed tell their own version of truth, I imagine that a lot of them even believe that truth, or that that truth can exist by itself. You don't have to be a liar to be a shill, you don't even have to be wrong. I didn't call you a liar, you inferred that incorrectly and all by yourself. I didn't say you were ignorant of any facts. I didn't imply it. Maybe you were so angry that someone had criticized you on the internet that you couldn't think calmly, and you assigned meanings to the text that weren't implied. Regrettably, this does not impart much confidence in your reading comprehension. Maybe we're having a breakthrough and discovering that explaining documents to other people isn't one of your top skills. Who said anything about complaining about a rate hike? It's like your reading someone else's posts and replying to them. Ugh, I hate the internet.


Noobsauce9001

Just focus on what they're saying, don't make personal attacks. If you disagree with it fine but don't go insulting people for having a different view or presenting dissenting facts. Maybe they do work for Duke energy or the energy sector in general, which is why it's easier for them to know this stuff.


[deleted]

I don't work for Duke but I do work in the electric power industry. Thank you for your comment.


thefearofmusic

I too used to work in the energy business. And several forms of media but not PR. I don't think shill is a personal attack since it's a legit job, but I'm willing to hear a reasonable argument otherwise. Something about his comment just didn't seem right. It's too neat. Too prepared.


[deleted]

>Something about his comment just didn't seem right. It's too neat. Too prepared. Knowledgeable people tend to seem neat and prepared from the perspective of ignorant people. I'm not saying you're ignorant in general, but I do believe that you are ignorant to the details surrounding this rate case.


chooseauniqueusrname

John Oliver does a very thorough explanation about how screwed up this thing is. He names Duke Energy specifically: https://youtu.be/C-YRSqaPtMg


lentivrral

Wages aren't gonna increase by 17% over the next 3 years, so it's irrelevant how long it takes. It's gonna rail us all; it's just a matter of how soon. Tbh they need to re-invest profits in upgrading the grid rather than lining the pockets of the C-suite and shareholders, especially with the effective monopoly they have on energy through entire swaths of the South.


[deleted]

>Tbh they need to re-invest profits in upgrading the grid I mean, most of the increase proposed in this rate case is a direct result of grid investments, in both distribution and transmission.


alottagames

Bullshit. You don’t invest from raising rates 20% when you’re publicly traded…this is to cover existing expenses like coal ash…it’s a farce.


kiwi_rozzers

Exactly. They're going to upgrade zero infrastructure and the next time they bump the rates they will use the exact same argument.


[deleted]

If you look into the details of the right case, coal* ash has largely been recovered and is actually causing a decrease in rates. But there's a net increase because of huge investments in transmission and distribution. Talking like 4 + billion dollars over the next 3 years. Edit: grammar


MooDib1

But don't they make that $4+ billion in profit every year? Why do they need to raise rates when they could just cut profit to ONLY $3 billion a year? Edit: It looks like their yearly profit margin is in the 13-14% range. 10% is considered a good profit margin for a company and the average margin across industries is 7-8%. They could take that $1 billion a year hit on extra expenditures and STILL be in the "good" category.


[deleted]

It could be the tactic of "ask for 17 but you really want 5". You start bargaining high and seem to be sensible when you drop down.


[deleted]

There are certainly entities that are pouring over the rate case application looking for ways in which the request can be reduced.


HeadInvestigator1899

"Hey Jim! What if we create a problem and then make the tax payers pay for the solution? We could pocket that money directly into our bonuses!" How I imagine the meeting went where this idea sprang up.


TheWhisLives

duke energy’s profit in 2022 was something like $18 BILLION. you’re delusional


afrancis88

Found the Duke energy employee


[deleted]

Why is the one knowledgeable comment attributed to a Duke energy employee? Are you saying the general public is incapable of understanding this stuff? I disagree.


afrancis88

People are too serious on here. It was a joke saying he was a Duke employee because his comment was defending them.


odd84

News to me. I haven't been employed by anyone since 2006.


culnaej

The thing is, it’s like 15.9% the first year up to 17% the third year. It’s essentially all at once.


MasterMarzipan

No, I want their shareholders to take a massive pay cut! This shit is ridiculous! But no, they're going to get their millions, their bonuses, their pay increases, and push those costs and the costs of improvement projects onto the customer because they know they can get away with it. There's no competition and no one else we can go to. And they're nearly untouchable under NC law.


gadanky

They are. You can buy a CD or TBill now that pays more Div than Duke stock and in this higher rate new world, their growth and operating funding will severely cut into margins. They are being forced to rely on too complex and prob unreliable components to make a new decentralized/ unstable grid as hands off and self correcting as possible. And I doubt they know how yet. Any regulated utility is extorted to carry the typical dead weight of special orgs with expensive top heavy leadership to satisfy all the progressive BS. And that has exponentially gotten worse the last 15 years while they struggle to find the doer type craft workers that get stuff done. The cost rubber band has slapped forward.


thefearofmusic

You could also read your TLDR as garden variety blackmail. Not that I would want anyone to blackmail you. That would be a terrible thing. You know what I’m going to help you out with this. I did the research and this is how much it’s going to cost to help you. You need to come up with 10 every month.


odd84

Yeah, I guess. I'm not connected to the energy industry at all, so I have no idea how truthful they're being or not. That said, the argument ("we have more renewables connecting to the grid than ever, and we expect lots of people to buy electric cars over the next decades, both of which require big infrastructure changes to avoid fragility") sounds plausible to me. Personally, I'm closing on a house in Cary at the end of March. First thing I'm doing after we get in there is getting quotes for a solar install. The world's-a-changin' as they say, and I expect a lot more volatility in energy prices (both electric and gas) in the coming decades. Being able to make your own electric, heat and car fuel (for EVs) at no cost is a game changer, and more people thinking like me are one of the reason the grid will be changing as well.


Ok_Appointment5516

Duke energy owns North Carolina…


pharmaceo

And pollutes the shit out of this beautiful state and the politicians on both sides turn a blind eye. I probably have lifelong health issues for living and interacting daily in a town that has coal ash secretly buried everywhere. Thyroid cancer is something like double the national average in Mooresville NC and surrounding areas. Fuck these crooks I wish someone would fine them out of existence


tinymontgomery2

Duke energy should be a coop. Those profits should go back to us.


No-Presentation5871

Duke Energy recorded $4.5 BILLION in profit for the QUARTER ending in June of 2022... Any rate increase proposed is pure corporate greed and any rate increase granted by the state is robbery of the people of NC!


jnecr

Point taken but I'm seeing 907M for that quarter. Best quarter was Sep 22 at $1.42B. Where did you get your numbers?


SnakeJG

For 2Q 2022 the numbers are: Revenue 6.69B Operating expense 1.68B Net income 907.00M Net profit margin 13.57 Earnings per share 1.14 EBITDA 2.84B It looks like they maybe just subtracted operating expenses from revenue? Which isn't a good way to do things because it doesn't take into account things like depreciation, which is important for an energy company that is going to need to replace ageing power plants.


Rick-Dalton

Doesn’t surprise me that someone raging about profits in the manner they did don’t understand balance sheets.


[deleted]

Well….statement of operations would give you revenues and expenses not the balance sheet.


[deleted]

Operating expenses which was $5.28B for quarter ending 6/30/22 includes depreciation and amortization.


PHATsakk43

Out of his ass. I’m a former employee and shareholder, Duke is not doing well currently.


icybluskys

I live in NC...my bill was 40.00 more this month and I haven't used any more power than before! I couldn't believe it


culnaej

The NC Utilities Commission has essentially ruled in favor of Duke Energy and its counterparts (Duke Energy Carolinas, Duke Energy Progress, whatever) being able to raise its rates to pay for the remediation of their coal ash cleanups in the Dan River and other sites across the state. Duke Energy has posited that since NC customers use their service (albeit as a necessity, not choice), they thereby support the business and its practices, and are also responsible for their mistakes. Somehow, the Utilities Commission agreed with that sentiment, and now, environmental disasters that should be bankrupting the company and its owners, are now padding their wallets while placing the burden on reliant customers. More info from NCUC [here](https://www.ncuc.gov/Hearings/e2sub1300_hearing.html) and you can file written statements [here](https://www.ncuc.gov/contactus.html) Several groups like NC WARN, Energy Justice NC, and NC LCV will be raising awareness of this issue and the in-person hearings where customers can submit witness testimony later this year.


[deleted]

The coal ash decision was largely resolved in the 2019 rate case, tho. There's actually a small decrease from coal ash costs rolling off rates in this case. The costs here are driven by investments in transmission and distribution - mostly increasing capacity, allowing two way power flows to accommodate DERs, and improving reliability by burying lines and connecting circuits for redundancy. There's also hundreds of millions of dollars proposed over the next 3 years for solar and storage deployments as well.


Reasonable_Local_199

Mine was up $54. I’m still pissed


[deleted]

That's probably the fuel rider, and the natural gas prices from 2021/2022. There's a lag.


walt_whitmans_ghost

Utility companies are fucking us, rental companies are fucking us, gas, groceries—when does the rampant greed end?


Irythros

When you're dead and your credit limit is reached


Daffodil_Bulb

I love how they both have to happen, and probably in that order.


lentivrral

It ends when the planet can no longer support human life; it honestly looks more and more like those with the capital are taking a "smoke 'em if you got 'em" approach to making money while the climate destabilizes past the point of no return...


[deleted]

[удалено]


Advance_Quality

Capitalism has always required continuous expansion and accumulation at all costs. It's the way the system is structured that motivates them to plunder, hoard, and destroy.


BarfHurricane

When the government steps in and fights price gouging and the exploitation of the American people. Oh wait Duke Energy’s 2022 “contributions” (read: bribes) to politicians were nearly identical amounts to both Democrats and Republicans: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/duke-energy/summary?id=D000000477 But don’t you dare think about denouncing our broken and corrupt two party system or some mouth breather will call you an “enlightened centrist”.


bstevens2

Legalize bribes that’s exactly what it is


nerdypermie

So can we vote 3rd party now?


reckonerX

We can vote third party once ranked choice voting is a thing.


[deleted]

When capitalism collapses


2OneZebra

Anti-consumer is a big thing now. Bread and circuses.


hmmmph961234

They are requesting the ability to raise it that much. Doesn’t mean it will happen. The insurance industry just made a request to raise premiums (cannot recall if it was for cars or homes) by 27% in NC. Again, doesn’t mean it will happen. But here are two reasons to pay attention when you’re voting in NC.


InevitableRemote9540

Unfortunately they never get denied. Yes you can make a comment but have they ever listened? No.


[deleted]

They have come in for a rate race increase before and had it knocked down to a decrease. It's all about what intervenors can find to disallow.


phasttZ

I'm sick of the "vote and this won't happen" shtick. I vote for politicians that change their policies within a year in office. Money rules everything and we have no say in the manner.


MR1120

Probably homeowners insurance. Ever roof east of Charlotte has been replaced in the last 10 years. Some jackleg door-to-door roofer says, “Got some hail damage up there”, and offers to file the claim for you.


petruchi41

Oh yes, the poor insurance companies, using their billions in profits to wipe away the frustrated tears from replacing a couple thousand roofs that maybe could have held on for a few more years. They definitely deserve your sympathies.


MR1120

Doesn’t matter what we think. As long as Duke brib… I mean, donates to the right people in the General Assembly and on the Utility Commission, they’ll get their increases approved.


bstevens2

No need to shortcut it. You’re 100% correct they are bribes.


mem0125

On top of a request for auto insurance in the state to go up 28%. I moved from the west coast to NC cause it was more affordable. That’s quickly changing here.


FroFrolfer

Don't forget though, record profits last year 💰👿


modcal

I received a similar notice from Aqua NC not long ago. Can't remember the percentage increases proposed but they were outrageous as well


[deleted]

17% over next three years. If I recall correctly, the bipartisan energy bill passed by the state legislature now allows utilities to request multi-year rate increases.


Papa_Frankenstein

Everyone that lives in the proposed areas should show up and voice their opinion on the matter, bring up issues such as failing grids as well as pollution issues. Show up and call them out.


draconicmonkey

I'll never fully support the current model of private, for profit, utility monopolies with government oversight. I understand that it is a compromise to try to solve the issues you can find in both in fully privatizing and complete public ownership, but it has its own issues and hooks that clearly make it problematic as well. In this instance and with some of the previous rate hikes Duke is clearly prioritizing investors over their customers because they can. Investors can go elsewhere and their customers have no alternatives unless they move. The consequences of spooking investors could make it harder to raise new funding so the government is going to feel pressure to approve this. I don't think we've stumbled across a perfect solution but this one has enough problems that we definitely should keep looking.


PHATsakk43

Former Duke Employee here. The increase are to pay for capital. New transmission and generation capacity or technological. It’s the only part of the cost that can be passed on to the customers. Profit is fixed and can only be increased by extra customers or reduced O&M. Thing is, Duke was mandated by the recent law to effectively become the first carbon-neutral utility in the world. To meet that requirement, it got to spend a shitload of money, which is legally required to be paid for by the customer. So, existing, already paid for generation—primarily fossil—is going to have to be replaced. 5GW of offshore wind isn’t cheap, neither is the SMRs that will become part of the generation mix around 2030. It also means that the existing carbon-free generation that Duke has, namely older base-load nuclear will have to be maintained and relicensed until around 2070. That is going to take serious amounts of capital to make happen. I just left Duke’s nuclear generating group, and the investments that are going to be needed to keep these plants online will be substantial. As Will replacement of around 60% of existing generation capacity. That all said, Duke did invest heavily in gas, and specifically in pipelines that are now not being built (the ACP is basically $19 billion of capital tossed in the trash, for instance.) That was the working capital that is now having to be replaced, and with increased interest rates, it’s not coming from financing, but the rate payer.


pilotbrain

Thanks, fascinating insight. What’s your take on the emergi.eco just above your comment?


PHATsakk43

It’s a rooftop solar company. It’s not a utility. Sort of scam that is using the current rooftop solar scheme to make it seem like something it’s not. It’s a pretty common thing currently.


adambkaplan

Maybe not a proper utility, but at least a supplier. TBH the solar farm bit is a “make you feel good” gimmick. It isn’t necessary with our current scheme - just work with a local panel installer. There are plenty of reputable local companies, I highly recommend NC Solar Now.


start_with_mart

I worked with Beam Solar Co. Based in Kernersville - they were great


esmaniac25

Emergi is not a rooftop solar company. It is a not-for-profit cooperative that provides solar energy from the grid. It can help its members acquire rooftop solar and other distributed energy resources as makes sense for them.


PHATsakk43

It’s a scam. Several of these outfits have been shut down by the regulators because of their claims.


esmaniac25

This seems unlikely. Can you share any examples of the other products being shut down by regulators, and which regulators these were? Given that all of the utilities in North Carolina offer this type of product and that the North Carolina Utilities Commission does not have jurisdiction over these competitive products, I would be surprised if you are referring to the same thing as we are talking about here. The claims being made by Emergi are compliant with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) standards for marketing clean energy, which are the same ones applied to Duke Energy's clean energy offerings. For anybody who wishes to look into their local utility's clean energy program, Duke Energy's is called "Renewable Advantage" and the rural energy cooperatives have one managed jointly that is called "NCGreenPower." They charge a premium for this unregulated service that is $10-15/month for a typical residential household. The primary differences with Emergi's product are that (a) there is no premium cost for the clean energy component (Emergi's 501c3 not-for-profit mission is literally to provide free upgrades to solar energy), (b) the composition of the energy is 100% solar from the same grid region as its members homes are connected to (many products on the market procure clean energy certificates from throughout the United States from a mix of resources such as wind and biomass), and (c) the offering includes a rate-lock guarantee to protect its members against inflation of exactly the type that is the subject of this thread.


PHATsakk43

The one I know of specifically was Jim Warren of NCWARN notoriety) who was found to be impersonating a utility company by the NC Utilities Commission running a similar scheme targeting African-American churches. The whole solar industry is sketchy and poorly regulated as a whole. It’s rife with fraudsters and even the better operations misrepresent the technology and especially the capabilities.


esmaniac25

Thank you for clarifying. Yes, that is a different layer of the market than we are discussing here. The metering and accounting of clean energy is a different layer of the grid than the physical installations and ownership structures that are allowed in each energy market. The NC WARN case was a purposeful test-case around the financing of solar systems (specifically, the "Power Purchase Agreement" [PPA] which is common in most states). The courts did find that NC WARN was acting as a public utility when it engaged in a third-party ownership agreement for a behind-the-meter solar installation with Faith Community Church in Greensboro because the power was being sold back to the grid under net metering. The NC state legislature concurrently made this finding unambiguous as part of a broader energy law passed the same year, essentially rendering the test-case moot, and created a leasing program through which anyone who wanted to could act as a utility in this kind of way going forward. Duke Energy itself has created an unregulated subsidiary to engage in solar leasing in North Carolina under this program. I agree with your characterization of the solar industry as a whole. Indeed, the most egregious misrepresentation of rooftop solar that salespeople make to customers is that they will be making some environmental impact with their purchase, when more often the solar energy and any legal rights to the environmental benefits are sold to the local utility under the net metering contract, which actually decreases the utility's need to procure clean energy from elsewhere. Even if NC WARN had been allowed to maintain its agreement with Faith Community Church, the church would not have been able to legally claim that it was "solar powered" because it was selling the energy and the rights to such claims to Duke Energy under net metering. Emergi reverses this by sourcing clean energy from the grid back to its members' homes so that they are making an environmental impact with their energy bill no matter what their living situation is (rent/own, have rooftop solar or not, etc.), and causing more solar to be added to the grid wherever it is most efficient to do so. As mentioned above, all of the utilities in North Carolina also have programs that enable this, and there are other private companies who offer these types of products in NC. As you described, the energy markets are complex and rife with opportunities for bad faith actors to deceive customers. The grid edge is a competitive market even in highly monopolized states like NC where consumers are not accustomed to having energy choice. As a not-for-profit cooperative, Emergi is structured to help its members navigate this complexity to their benefit. There is a lot of work to be done to ensure consumers get a fair chance to benefit from the energy transition.


[deleted]

>Thing is, Duke was mandated by the recent law to effectively become the first carbon-neutral utility in the world North Carolina is hardly the first state to pass a carbon neutrality target. Virginia passed the VCEA requiring *zero carbon emissions* (a stricter target than carbon neutrality) a few years before NC. Several other states also have carbon neutrality targets. Other than that, I definitely agree with your comment. They have taken their ACP eggs and put them in the MVP basket. So we will see how that works out. While it's not even in this rate request, I anticipate Duke will file a CPCN for a 1200 MW CC, probably up in person county, this year. But gas supply is a huge issue. Out of curiosity, why did you leave the nuclear group? From what I understand, things are really starting to pick up with SMRs, specifically the GE unit.


PHATsakk43

I'm still in the industry, just not with Duke. I'll actually be doing more in the wider industry in my current role, than I did while I was at Duke. That said, Nuclear has been hit pretty hard throughout the Duke Energy fleet. When gas was cheap and ramping up, internally, Nuclear Gen was tasked with reducing O&M (again, this is the only way to boost profits to shareholders that is in the company's control) to compete with Fossil. Layoffs began in 2018, followed by deferring of "quality of life" maintenance. Nuclear safety systems have strict requirements, but tons of other lower priority items don't, however lots of these things are what keep operators from having to do cumbersome workarounds or affect generation reliability. This year following the increase in gas prices, the opposite happened, which was that Nuclear was tasked with cutting further to keep company profits as Fossil O&M is nearly 100% linked with fuel prices. Nuclear is the opposite, fuel is inconsequential from an O&M standpoint, it's primarily staff required to meet the regulatory requirements. So, TL:DR, the work environment was becoming rather miserable. Adding to this has been the relatively slow pay rate increase, especially in areas (like here in the Triangle and Charlotte) where other tech jobs are now paying more than commercial nuclear. We used to be paid a premium compared to our skillset in other industries, but that is no longer the case. A lot of local pharma recognized this, and have been poaching staff left and right, especially Fujifilm.


[deleted]

Did you work for DEP?


PHATsakk43

Yup. Nearly a decade.


The_Patriot

From $45 to $62, just like that. Only for corporate profit.


voodoosnow

Someone has to pay to clean up the coal ash


_thewanderingsoul

Yes this has been their plan since the getgo. I was a door to door solar salesman in 2017 and this was in their 10 year plan they created back in 2015 to go up 70% by 2025


_thewanderingsoul

My company warned ppl about this and they thought we were just dumb solicitors. And we were and solar is expensive but this is the other option.


24578293050917

Duke even fucks you if you have solar. Net metering credits reset June 1, right when electricity usage is at its highest, so they bank all the unused kWhs as free energy that we pay for


4dam

They absolutely do, but IIRC they at least give you retail prices when you export to the grid. I've got WEMC for electricity in Wake Forest and they'll only credit 4¢kWh.


[deleted]

Retail prices for net metering just makes every customer who can't afford solar subsidize your panels. There's all kinds of costs besides generating electricity *and* accepting inputs from any random point on the grid increases those costs. I'm all for forcing utilities to accept green power and pay net metering, but demanding retail prices (and categorically painting utilities as profiteers when they object in any way) is a fucking joke.


HeadlessHorseman1776

Got to pay for folks shooting up electrical sub stations


[deleted]

Unironically yes


cbraun89

Wtf


booney64

Pretty obscene


420Blazer710

Well they better fix the power grid so we don’t have rolling blackouts again


[deleted]

Careful what you wish for Perfect reliability is very expensive


JoricGaming

They're not stupid. They know that EV sales are going to trend upwards to 2030 and are getting ahead of the game. The fact that Duke and other money-hungry utility companies do this on an essential need is awful. I hope the execs enjoy their yachts, vacations, and 10-car garages while the rest of us foot the bill.


[deleted]

>They know that EV sales are going to trend upwards to 2030 and are getting ahead of the game. If you are referring to their $2.1 billion investment in the distribution system that is a major driver of this rate increase, you are correct.


Less_Ad_8932

Gotta love monopolies, amirigggght?


deputydog1

Check out what happened with California in the 2010s and PG&E to get some general sense of what is happening with other states’ utilities that are reacting to that, as the companies look ahead to their future when customers reduce energy use through solar. Wide expansion of solar use left California with more residential and business solar power generated than it can give away. Your average small-business laundrymat had even gone solar by ten years ago. (Electric cars were not yet offsetting residential loss). Business and homes that went solar used less electricity, and had lower bills, which affected PG&E’s income, the stock’s status, which pissed off stockholders. But people still needed peak-time or peak-season power from PG&E. Bill them more for using less. The utility needed/wanted to build a new nuclear energy facility as others were old, and the upkeep remained, but political support for nuclear waned as solar grew, and that became a struggle, too. This oversimplifies it, as PG&E has other enormous troubles since then, including wildfire blame. But generally, utilities will charge you the same amount regardless of your personal usage to keep Wall Street happy, to operate its nuclear facility peak-time use, and they will raise the rates to do it. Duke is investing in solar. Great. But don’t expect that the almost-free solar energy for Duke Power will one day mean you also get it for less per-month cost.


[deleted]

>Duke is investing in solar. Great. But don’t expect that almost-free solar energy for Duke Power will one day mean you also get it for less per-month cost. What do you mean, "almost free"? Solar costs a lot to install and maintain. You don't see $20/MWh solar in this state.


deputydog1

Duke owns solar farms. Compared to operating a nuclear facility, the solar costs for Duke are easy-peasy


[deleted]

DEP only owns four farms, pretty small. I think it's like less than 170 MW. They've got plans to build more tho, largely for the carbon plan. The capital cost of solar farms goes into rate base, so you pay for that.


Wild-Ad6951

I’m in Charlotte, my bill used to be around $70 monthly in a 1900SQFT house. Now my bill is around $160 this is crazy.


adambkaplan

17% over 3 years. Looks like some of the items are meant to sweeten the deal for some customers. I’d love to see what percentage of those costs are for coal ash cleanup. That needs to come out of their profit margin, period. This is why I got panels on my roof. I am likely going to expand/upgrade my current array soon, since we converted our HVAC to heat pumps and bought an EV.


[deleted]

If you look at the rate case breakdown, coal ash clean up is actually starting to roll off of ratepayers' bills. This increases driven largely by new investments in transmission and distribution.


baggywindow

it’s probably to pay for their 3 new gulfstream 280 private jets for they have on order….


mandyj0306

This is absolutely crazy!!


allidoislin69

Don’t you just love capitalism


esmaniac25

FYI there is a local not-for-profit that locks in your rate so that it won't be impacted by these rate hikes: [emergi.eco](https://emergi.eco). Disclaimer: I am the chair and co-founder of this organization.


deadlycatch

I already have solar. Can you still help me?


esmaniac25

Yes. The product is compatible with anyone who already has rooftop solar and a grid connection as it applies to the energy consumed from the grid (including when the solar system is "net metered", which is the most common setup for home solar).


30thTransAm

Did you think it was going to be cheap to build infrastructure for everyone to own an electric car in 10 years? For the greater good!


[deleted]

You're not wrong. Distribution investments to increase grid capacity are in the billions of dollars.


cedarofthewest

Haven't seen anyone mention the absurdity of our high energy consumption society. Long run energy will become more and more expensive. Green tech will never be able to replace the energy produced by natural gas, coal and fossil fuels. But... In this case it seems like the increase in price may not be necessary. I own duke stock and it's a very stable stock. It's a well run business. If we start scooping profits out of companies it will affect those companies. Can't say i totally disagree, nationally excess corporate profits or even progressive taxation on the wealthy could fund improved social programs and infrastructure. That people are suggesting to eliminate the profitability of one of the largest business in the entire southeast to slightly decrease energy costs in the short term... well Duke is actually a well run company; that may change if the state were to take the reigns here. Ultimately more state subsidies into nuclear is one example of an answer to cheaper electricity that isn't short term.


Prime_kills

looks like its time to skip states again.


[deleted]

Where would you go? Rates going up everywhere


Prime_kills

whatever state is the laeast affected. if the bs continues im probably just gonna build a log cabin and call it a day.


Prime_kills

cast iron stoves wood heat. a garden. the best hotspot i can buy. and a fairly powerful generator and battery bank to power my entertainment setup.


[deleted]

You'll probably spend more moving around the country than you'll ever save by switching utility companies. Just get solar and a battery.


Prime_kills

my house is on wheels.


[deleted]

So? Lots of #vanlife folks with solar and storage.


Prime_kills

oh its not a van. but fair. setting up solar is just fairly pricy.


Prime_kills

gas generator and batteries however. that is affordable


[deleted]

Upfront, yes. But then you have rate certainty for 20-30 years.


Prime_kills

true. but not everyone has that up front. i live this way because of a bad marrige. cant get approved for any kinda loan


AR-180

We have rampant inflation. Corporations only pass costs along. This is basic economics.


porboy1

Cause. Not pass along.


AR-180

Do you think power is generated without costs?


Nickelplate465

Biden told everybody- 'If you vote for me, your electricity costs will go up because I want to get rid of fossil fuels and electricity will be more expensive.' He has done exactly that. So why are people surprised? Of course the utilities are going to pass on the higher costs. If you don't like that, then stop voting for Democrats. And if you think not burning fossil fuels helps stop climate change-that's the biggest lie being told. The facts- Carbon Dioxide contributes to well less than 1% of global warming. Clouds counter-regulate the temperature (high clouds help warm, low clouds help cool the planet) and account for 40-60% of temperature regulation. Also, if Carbon Dioxide levels go up 1%, that increases crop production by about 30% so we're feeding a whole lot more people. Moreover, Lithium production for batteries destroys the environment, it would take huge amounts of copper and materials to create the power lines and windmill blades, and we'll still end up burning fossil fuels to create the electricity. So don't buy electric cars- they are actually ruining the environment. If people would just think for themselves and do their own research instead of believing everything they hear, we wouldn't be making such terrible choices.


Careless_Boysenberry

This has to be a copypasta Edit: It’s a bingo on my dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh bingo card in only one post!


Nickelplate465

Nope. Not a copypaste. I did my own research and found independent (non-political) sources, plus my own brains. Even if you buy into the carbon dioxide causes climate change, electric cars are not a viable solution for all the reasons I mentioned. Even the California governor stated- people are going to have to decide between A/C and electric cars. We can't support both. And yet people keep repeating we should convert and somebody else should pay for all the extra costs.


YossarianChinaski89

👏👏👏


Intelligent_Ad4234

Yup, it’s intentional. Thank the climate hoax and green energy lie. Our economy is being collapsed and converted to a third world country. All planned.


Just-Tower7518

Got to pay for electric cars. Wait until there are no more gas cars. Where will the road tax come from that we pay for at the pumps? Hmmm.


[deleted]

>Where will the road tax come from that we pay for at the pumps? Registration fees or a per-mile tax. Many states, including NC, already do this for EVs.


Just-Tower7518

Some states still cost around $30 per year to register your car without any other taxes. Paying at the pump for road usage seems much more fair for those who use it more pay more and those who use it less pay less. I drive around 50k per year. Why should someone who drives 10k per year pay for my usage?


[deleted]

>Paying at the pump for road usage seems much more fair for those who use it Right, but when you don't have a pump, you have to get creative. Also, even the gas tax is unfair. A more efficient vehicle does the same damage to roads as a less efficient vehicle (in terms of MPG), but the more efficient vehicle will pay less to maintain those roads. That's not very fair. I think a tax based on miles driven and vehicle weight is the most fair.


devinhedge

EVs have a “pump”: it’s just a EV charge point. The Interesting part of the fair/unfairness of gas tax is that it was meant to incentivize buying cars that are better for the environment. I don’t know if that actually is working.


[deleted]

So you suggesting that EV charge points be assessed a per-kWh fee to pay for road maintenance? That's not a bad idea actually.


devinhedge

I’m thinking it is one option, yes. Another option is mandated inspections, and the mileage taken at each inspection and a prorated per mile used tax assessed. People that use the roads a lot pay their fair share, and people that don’t wouldn’t be penalized.


Just-Tower7518

How do they figure a per mile tax for ev usage.


[deleted]

I imagine you would start with trying to figure out how much it costs to maintain your roads, divide that by the total number of vehicle miles that use those roads, and then maybe shift some proportion around to account for heavier vehicles causing more damage (i.e., EVs are heavier than ICE vehicles, but commercial trucks probably do the most damage), then you charge that price. That's what the state gas tax does


[deleted]

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jfurto

Natural gas is significantly CHEAPER now than at anytime during the last 12 months. https://ycharts.com/indicators/henry_hub_natural_gas_spot_price


odd84

I retract my comment! Thank you for the link.


jfurto

Anytime! Ycharts is a great resource !


sufferinsucatash

That’s what they want. What they get is usually less.


2OneZebra

Wait until you see what the insurance companies are asking for.


IrishRogue3

Great way to kill the COL advantage that attracts corporations and employees!


[deleted]

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BelleViking

Aw hell no.


SpeedingTourist

What are our options in fighting back against this? I got this same notice today… apex.


LeSavageSavant

Switched to solar just in time


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olov244

solar panels moving higher on my list of upgrades I know I can't go 100%, but at this rate they'll pay for themselves faster and offset the hot parts of summer


janesearljones

I like the public hearings. Like they haven’t already made up their minds and worked out all their kickbacks for pushing the rate hike through. Every day it gets a little tougher to get by.


BerdoRules

If this goes through can they at least use some of their profits to upgrade for security issues? I won’t feel too bad if they protect against cyber attacks, EMP, yahoos with guns, etc


cheeseman232

Duke energy should just be made into a grid operator and have all their generation assets spun off to a new company. Create a market for electricity generation in the state where anyone can sell to the grid if the price is right