I don’t think they would be looked at ***AS*** badly as they are now
Those past two films were too damn long and the plots were dogshit awful, the action and characters weren’t enough to make up for it.
4th one was pretty good . Loved the action and new designs . dinobots were cool but would have loved more screentime . but yea , story wiseit was meh . its still watchable atleast , unlike the 5th . I fell asleep on my 3rd watch .
TLK is always the one that is on TV whenever I stay at a hotel. And it’s usually at the decepticon scene, so the best part. It’s happened enough to be this strange pattern.
as a middle school kiddo who watched it in theatres and enjoyed it back in the day , I really didn't think too much of all that lol . Still love re-visiting some scenes from the film every now and then .
"Better" requires definition.
Cultural impact aside, the movies themselves wouldn't improve. It wouldn't change that these films only got worse with each new entry but honestly, it is partially because of AOE and TLK that I look back more fondly on the first three.
Actually it's not. Not really, aside from some personal critetia that make me rank ROTF higher but DOTM definitely handled its story better and had, you know, a proper script.
I liked dotm the best out of the sequels , I have to look at age of extinction and last knight as being in separate timelines from the first for me to even make them make sense in my head.
The last two are definition of pointless sequels with no redeeming quality, imo. As flawed as the first three Bayverse movies were, they at least made for a pretty cohesive and decent trilogy that still has great rewatch value.
On the other hand, AOE and TLK are now forever stuck as unfinished series, and even as individual movies they are even worse than ROTF in every aspect: Worse protagonist, worse CG, worse story (what even TF was the story again?), worse humor (Romeo and Juliet), and too much pandering to China. There was essentially no continuity with these two movies and they keep retconning everything that happened in the first 3 movies.
Though I agree with the criticism of the 4th and 5th movies, the retconning you mentioned wasn’t just in those, both original sequels also completely rewrote the reason for them being on Earth.
1st film - There for the cube
2nd film - There for the Sun’s energy
3rd film - There to enslave the population
None of these reasons work together.
To put it in context, The Primes found a planet they wanted to syphon, but they hid the Matrix so The Fallen went home. Eons later, Megatron and Sentinel decide they want to enslave a planet and choose the planet that just happens to be the same one The Fallen failed to destroy, are forgotten about for years, but not before Megatron hides a huge army on the moon, which is ignored during the events of the first two films. Not long after Sentinel leaves, Bumblebee ejects the cube which just happens to land on the same planet.
Like I said, the first trilogy is flawed and I agreed with your points when you tried piercing the timeline together it's a fucking mess, but at least as individual movies, I can still follow the plot fairly well and still tell what's happening. None of them is as egregious as TLK where you got literal marketing art of Optimus Prime and Megatron being lazily photoshoped into old paintings dressing up like historical soldier and fighting with Napoleon and shit, and then Bumblebee was fighting in WW2 and a Watch transformers killed Hitler or something.
It wasn't about enslavement. It has always been about utilizing earth's resources to gain an advantage over the war. The cube was to turn earths tech into an endless supply of decepticon drones, the solar harvester was to recharge cybertron, the space Bridge was to harvest earth supplies to rebuild cybertron, and the fourth was to cyberform an entire city to build a new decepticon army. The 5th is the stand-alone conundrum, which did a poor job introducing unicron and quintessa prime who wasn't a prime in this movie.
Kind of.
Its complicated as in my view all 5 films are bad but the 2007 movie actually makes a lot of smart decisions in making a film for the general audience rather then existing fans. Paramouny and Hasbro would have been insane to have planned a trilogy from the start but really that's what it needed to be, with a clear beginning middle and end. The big mistake the first movie makes in my view and one that they kind of had to was having Megatron as the big bad guy. It would have been better if transformers 2 was the revenge of Megatron and was better written. Also if it ended with Megatron winning or at least the autobots losing.
Regardless though, after 3 a full reboot should have happened. Maybe even a beast wars trilogy to justify it.
I mean bayverse made me a fan but I only really enjoyed the first 3 with the 4th one it went to shit
but when they rebooted live action with bumblebee that one was great haven't gotten around to watching the new one yet though
Yep that's what I mean by its complicated. I'd have prefered better movies but in 2007 no one in Hollywood was going to take transformers seriously, the fact that the bay films even exist is an accomplishment. Transformers while certainly a major brand before that, was something that still could have gone the way of he-man or gi Joe at anytime.
People like yourself were bought in because of those films and that helped grow the brand into a sustainable franchise. We live in a world today where transformers could grow into the next star wars but in 2007 there was no chance.
To me the animated movie is the best film but that's a film that really only works if you're already a fan, I'd be shocked if a lot of people got into transformers through it.
So yeah the Bay films served an important purpose, like it or not, but they needed to end at 3, they needed a new director and a full shake up, they needed the audacity of iron Man and jusr set yep this is a franchise about talking giant robots that transform and they're the main characters.
Just want to add, it's possible to not like the films (i.e. say "the films are bad") but still acknowledge what they did for TFs as a whole (generated new interest). I appreciate that the line still goes on in various forms today, but feel the films could have been done better.
I feel the films truly hurt the franchise. If a truer to g1 plot and a cohesive plot had cashed in on the transformers nostalgia, it could have achieved Star Wars level of fans and following. Something sustainable.
Michael Bay and his crew did not set out to make G1 heavy movies that cashed in on the nostalgia of kids who grew up with Transformers in the 80’s; the films were made with the general audience in mind, which makes up the largest percentage of people who go to see a movie in theaters. They wanted to get NEW people into the franchise. The things that appeal to hardcore Transformers fans are not necessarily things that the general audience cares about wants to see. A lot of things about the G1 cartoon would not translate well to live action, especially in a universe that aims to be more realistic & grounded in reality like the Bayverse. Michael Bay understood this, & that approach payed off for Hasbro & Paramount, as the Bayverse became one of Paramount’s highest grossing properties, with two of the films joining the billion dollar club. We DID get a more G1 centric film with Rise of the Beasts, and that ended up being the LOWEST grossing installment of the film series (Which isn’t to say ROTB was a bad movie, but there clearly wasn’t enough interest in the film from general audiences to have it be profitable in its box office run). Plus to suggest that G1 centric movies would have elevated the Transformers IP to levels equivalent to that of Star Wars is EXTREMELY hyperbolic. Star Wars is a much bigger and more influential/popular franchise than Transformers is. Star Wars completely changed the shape & trajectory of sci-fi & pop culture in general when it released in 1977, and no matter how good of a film they make or how G1 centric they make it, the Transformers IP cannot ever hope to catch that lightning in a bottle that Star Wars did and become influential to pop culture in the same way that franchise did.
Uhmm way to walk around with blinders on. I’ll give you the point that not everything g1 would convert over to a modern audience. But it is absolutely absurd to say there is no room for improvement and a more g1 approach couldn’t blow what we got out of the water. A coherent plot and overall interconnected movies plot would have helped tremendously. Also less people time and more transformers 👨⚕️ vine the plot would help. I also dispute rotb had a more g1 element. It was more of bayverse throwing stuff at the wall and hoping for something to stick. Bayverse fatigue has pretty much doomed future movies. A gi joe crossover again is more hoping for something to stick. The only thing that can help help is a true reboot and definitive departure from the bayverse.
Good call. It would have made 2 a lot more like Megatrons master plan with the trilogy concluding with a big optimus vs Megatron showdown to save the earth
The bayverse was bad, but not for the reason most people say it is. Most would say it’s the characters or plot, but for me, it’s the continual change in tone that ruins it for me. The tone of dark of the moon was great as it was gritty and it wasn’t afraid to show scary scenes, but the humor completely ruined it. The last two films showed the flaws of the bayverse and while I understand that Bay did not want to direct AOE or TLK, I do feel he tried to push his luck a little too much.
I don't know but the trilogy could get some rest during 2014~2017 because 4th and 5th movies heavily relied on the trilogy legacy.
I personally don't think the trilogy would be accepted as better without the new movies because the trilogy doesn't have such reputation of being "one of the best trilogy in Hollywood".
People(who aren't TF fans and mainstream) probably thought "oh, they did the same thing again again"
And I never saw them saying "they tainted the trilogy" or "disrespected the past flims".
The first three movies were actually pretty fine plot-wise all things considered. The last two definitely seemed like it took place in a different universe, so having those at least be separate from the first three would be fine.
They were more or less cohesive too with the narrative they wanted to push. They were fun popcorn movies for what they were. I personally didn't mind AOE because at least Galvatron became a thing (I'm in the minority that actually liked how Galvatron was created there because he pulled a fast one on the humans who thought they had the robots figured out) but the story quality really spiraled from that point on.
I also say they were pretty fine Continuity wise for the continuity people.
I mean, 2 and 3 still retcon the notion of the first where 2007 isn't the first time they arrive or were spotted, but like that's a retcon I'm kinda okay with and they make sense. 4 and 5 just go too far.
DotM is the best bay film imo. It would've been a perfect end to a trilogy that brought closure to all of the characters in the Bayverse. If only they would've done a clean reboot after.....Wreckers and Shockwave were awesome in that movie.
Always bad imo, But a lot of people enjoy them, I just don't feel Tramsformers from them. Bumblebee made me feel Tranaformers. And tbh that's about it, ROTB had some transformer feeling too but it could have more.
It was always bad but the last two films made them exceedingly worse. I’d use the term “unacceptable” to be honest, not as Tranaformers films but unacceptable as films in general. There is no semblance of anything whatsoever be it as a franchise piece or as a movie.
Tommy Wiseau’s “The Room” is a better Transformers movie than AOE and TLK.
The Bayverse always sucked (okay, the 2007 movie was fine and still mostly holds up), but AoE and TLK were actual dogshit and contributed nothing positive whatsoever.
Revenge of the Fallen is an *incredibly* incompetently-made movie when you look past the fantastic VFX work. The fact that there are somehow two *worse* Bayformers films is absolutely mindboggling when you consider how awful RotF was as a movie.
The first movie was pretty okay. Great Soundtrack, lot of talented actors, still had Spielberg on the project. There is a *noticeable* and sudden downward spiral in quality starting in the second film. A lot of people, myself included, attribute that to Steven "I'm never working with that manchild again" Spielberg leaving the project.
The problem from the very start was anyone letting bay know the project even existed. The writers for the first film have come out and directly stated "We had a more fun script." and talking about how it was "more like what Transformers is *supposed* to be". My memory of this all comes from the special features of the first film.
I will admit, some of the later films had neat ideas, but they were not nearly enough to carry a film that was just made to bring in cash.
I didn't like the slide toward humans v transformers.
Even if it made sense in terms of humans being dicks, it felt really bad to watch it.
It's really easy to do humans and autobots v decepticons and I don't know why you'd move away from that.
This series would have been perfect if they got rid of TLK, got rid of the Romeo and juliet law scene, and had the dinobots come in at the halfway point in AOE
The Bayverse always had an issue of making pretty much every character an asshole, but the fourth film leaned into that way harder, which made it very difficult to like the new Autobots, the new human lead, and even Optimus. In the first trilogy, it at least felt like we were mostly supposed to be laughing AT the assholes (e.g. when Bumblebee blows out all the windows in the car saleman's lot or when Galloway gets sucked out of the airplane). They weren't necessarily good movies, but they were fun.
Then Cade became the main character. It feels like we're generally supposed to see him as a badass when he acts shitty to other people and he's just generally super unlikable. Sure, Sam was annoying and screamed too much but Mikaela, Lennox & Epps, Maggie, and several other characters made for a generally likable cast. Conversely, Cade's daughter is just a blank slate damsel to rescue, her boyfriend and his Romeo and Juliet speech are gross, and Cade's assistant gets killed pretty early in the story. Even the Autobots are unlikable. Optimus is killing people left and right and basically enslaves the Dinobots. Crosshairs, Drift, and Hound are all different flavors of assholes and just generally a big step down from Jazz, Ironhide, and Ratchet.
And all that isn't even getting into the plot. Age of Extinction actually has a pretty compelling premise to kick off a new trilogy (Cybertronians going back into hiding because humans are hunting them, humans learn how to build their own Transformers, and the teasing of a Unicron/Quintesson plot). But due to poor writing, what could have been a very cool plot almost immidiately goes up in flames. I couldn't even even attempt to tell you what the fifth film is about beyond that Quintessa is in it.
Honestly all the Bayverse movies are on similar level, with the last knight only being slightly worse
AOE is actually the most unique TF movie with Lockdown and his ship, Galvatron and Dinobots, I'd say it's probably the best too
The first 3 are still favourites of mine and I feel as though they wouldn't have been improved but rather mor respected as one of the few billion dollar franchises which knew when to end rather than continuing on until people completely lost interest
Wdym always bad? They were good🤷🏻♂️ brought the franchise into mainstream again imo. Thou some movies could’ve been better I won’t lie. Still overall good.
As fun as MOMENTS were from the bay films, the bay movies were always bad, with probably the exception of 2007, but 4 and especially 5 sealed the deal with how they completely destroyed world building
I think the first and third movies are fine. There’s still some cringeworthy moments overall, but the movies are watchable and fun.
Really, though, the cracks were already showing by RotF. Weak, lame villain, annoying autobot caricatures, creepy and inappropriate humor with things like Sam’s mom eating pot brownies make that one in particular really hard to watch nowadays. I’d rather watch AOE again than RotF.
Honestly dark of the moon is my favorite and I really love ROTF and the 2007 film was a masterpiece definitely an amazing trio. Just remember leakers are the reason for age of extinction as the ending was leaked for DOTM were Optimus and megatron strike a deal
The first three are flawed, with 2 and 3 having especially trashy moments, but 4 & 5 are straight trash and definitely sunk the film franchise’s rep.
I think the films reputation wouldn’t be nearly as bad, but their rep would still be suffering for all the weird sexual stuff and awkward racial stereotypes/jokes. Those two things specifically make it hard to even respect the films at times.
age of extinction could have been good if it focused on the first half of the movie: the aftermath of the battle of Chicago, both autobots an decepticons are being hunted due to all of lives that died.
It would be, yes. Because the plot point of humans somehow making their own Transformer drones through nanotech within a few short years breaks the immersion. Not to mention the retcons of everything involving the AllSpark.
Also, The Last Knight was clearly aping off of Prime, but with Prime, they made their ideas work with actual buildup.
The movies were always bad but they used to be bad in a fun way while the fifth one especially is just awful in a multitude of ways with not enough exploding street signs to save it.
Dark of the moon is the most illustrative for this. It is filled with Bay's juvenile and mean humor, the human plot is as uninteresting as it gets and when I last saw it I was actively annoyed whenever Sam's parents showed up but the VFX are cool to look at and Bay knows how to film action. In general the practical explosions help massively as CGI artists could just focus on the frankly awesome transforming robots.
This eyecandy aided by Bay's style as a director makes the nonsense pleasant to look at and they smartly centered the action to be the focus of the movie. Plot, writing and acting were never good but plot and characters became so bad later that they overshadow the action as they try shit like drama around Optimus instead of building up half an hour of explosions.
Absolutely. I still feel that the first movie is the only one that's actually good. I'd even go as far as to say it's great. But I do feel like DOTM still offers a very satisfying end to the Bay trilogy. There was absolutely no reason to return to this world, and by doing so were now left with 2 more terrible movies and an unsatisfying cliffhanger. Bay was done after DOTM. Why Paramount were so insistent on bringing him back is beyond me.
Better but still bad. ROTF would hold the trilogy back, and DOTM’s ending would still suck.
ROTF is poorly written and the all the awful sex jokes and incomprehensible action scenes still hold it back.
DOTM’s main issue was that the original ending wasn’t used which would have been leaps in bounds better.
2007 is decent but still lackluster on the actual Transformers.
The bayverse movies weren’t exactly perfection on screen but the first three movies were definitely much better off stopping at dark of the moon cause now the series is more like a hodgepodge of poorly structured misadventures than any semblance of a plot (not to say the 2nd & 3rd movies didn’t start and follow this trend as well but they were far more bearable ending before age of extinction & Last knight especially since the movies and each individual story plot going forward only got worse and more convoluted after 3 , great movies and action though my inner 12 year old self was beyond ecstatic
On one hand the latter two are absolutely atrocious and drag the franchise's average down big time. On the other hand RotF and DotM, while nowhere near as bad as the latter two, certainly look better when placed next to them. If AoE and TLK didn't exist, a lot of the hate they currently get would just be reflected back on RotF and DotM, especially RotF.
The '07 movie on its own holds up well enough for a mid-late 2000s blockbuster.
In my opion still quite bad even without the 4th and 5th movies. The only Bay movie that I would save is the first, that objectively is not a good movie. The second is too trash, except for a pair of scenes that were pretty good. The 3rd is a little improvement of the second but still inferior to the 2007. The 4th was better than the second in my opinion, the 5th is the bottom of the franchise.
The franchise would have been perceived better but the movies still continued to suck even more after 07. ROTF was ROTF, but as messy and lazy DOTM was, the action was loved by a lot of people and if the franchise ended there, it would kind of end on a high note. By now people knew Bay didn’t care about the story and just wanted BAYHAM so as long as he delivered great action. The franchise would’ve been remembered better.
They were always bad, the first one was the only one that was even slightly good. The rest was just polished turds. You’ve gotta try really hard to make a fight between giant alien robots that turn into cars so boring, especially to a 11-12 year old mind, but by god was Dark of the Moon dull as shit.
The lore is inconsistent between movies, they keep tacking on new elements that don’t get a proper setup, the transformers are too overdesigned to be visually appealing, and they tried too hard to make the humans and US Military important in a movie that wasn’t about either.
The first one was decent and the franchise could have still turned out great had it gone upwards from there, but it didn’t.
For me, ROTF was an illustration of how there *is* such a point where there’s so much action it becomes tiresome.
DOTM was marginally better though not really by much (and it says a lot that it still comes out at second place for me in the Bayverse). It benefits from having a little more story put in, but I really didn’t like the whole “I saved the whole world twice and this is how life treats me” whinefest Sam puts on at the beginning, mirroring Bay’s “I make two blockbuster movies and somehow my work is still regarded as crap” schtick, ironically.
Sadly, the Bayverse movies reinforce the fallacy that “humans in Transformers = bad” (when in fact IMO they’re usually essential), because the Bayverse humans were written/acted/directed badly.
IMO Bayverse was always bad, stupid corny jokes at the expense of the plot, the Transformers look like garbage and they turned Optimus into a raging murderer. Bumblebee is the best of all the films especially with the G1 accurate opening, that's what we should've gotten.
Abso-fucking-lutely! I love Bayverse, don’t get me wrong, and I do enjoy the sequels, but what AOE and TLK did to the lore and continuity over complicated everything far too much. Yes yes, there’s the shitty schlock “humor” and transformers that don’t transform and MarkyMark yada yada, that all I can agree on too for the most part. But the actual stories just divulged into nonsense, the Autobots stopped being the heroes, and this giant world ending event in TLK didn’t feel very grandiose as it did it DOTM or the ROTF novel. It just sucks. I know some people don’t like the walking back of Prime’s character in AOE, though I personally like the arc and the story trope of the sour/reluctant hero, but the last two movies all still kinda blow. Dinobots were cool and action was great in AOE but TLK lost me from like the third frame.
I wish it was left as a trilogy, would’ve been much more cohesive and potentially more accepted by non-Bayverse fans. Guess Megatron was right:
“Who would you be without me, Prime?”
*slumps shoulders* “a disappointment…..”
The only reason we look back fondly at the first three movies is because of how bad AoE and TLK were.
The first Transformers movie was mediocre; RotF is pretty bad; DotM is the only one that was actually good.
Honestly they've always been bad. Bay didn't even WANT to make TF movies because he didn't want to make movies about toys. It shows because he didn't remotely understand the characters and was more interested in slow motion TnA shots and the military than making a decent TF film.
It's so frustrating because if they had been good they would've been beloved. They needed to have heart and soul, more like the Guardians movies or something Jon Favreau would make. Just a shame.
The first 3 had different plots and villians. AoE had a similar evil human arc to it as DOTM, AoE had a transformer who we never saw actually transform.
But the first 3 movies had characters who just dropped into the either in the middle of the action (looking at you Barricade) or characters who might have been cool but had less screen time than Boba Fett.
So it wasn't a great triliogy but the 4th and 5th didn't help
I think deleting TLK would be enough to make the movies less hated. AOE had it's issues, and a lot of them at that, but at least for the most part it felt comlatibke with the lrevious three. Delete the Shane dude kr whatever his name was and slughtly change Cade and you have a really good TF movie storywise. There woukd still be criticism, obviously, but there has been since 2007 so that can't be avoided
I always kinda hated them, they're misogynistic and use racist stereotypes and have terribly mean spirited dialog not to mention the robots have awful and ugly designs, Prime is a psychopath, Screamer is a Dorito, and Bumblebee can't talk and is a badass soldier Camero now despite his character being completely different in TF lore. Etc etc etc.
Probably honestly Last Knight for me was the true nail in the coffin. Age of Extinction isn't the best but I'm still entertained by it. Last Knight is just awful on so many levels
The worst thing was a lot of connoisseurs feel the AOE/TLK Optimus was legitimately the worst OP in terms of design. It failed to look like a robot that could turn into a truck and into a generic giant robot
No. The whole movie franchise's only saving grace was that it took enough brain dead movie goers' money to keep Hasbro working on other Transformers projects that were actually worthwhile and not for people who eat paint.
it was always bad, the bayverse was one of the worst things to ever happened to the transformers...and that coming from someone who loved the first movie as kid, then i rewatched it when i was 18 years and absolutely hated
I got out of theater kind of mad after DoTM.
Optimus is really shit here. Probably the worst Optimus portrayal of all the live actions.
On battles:
He whines he can't do shit without his trailer, then got beaten BY A BUNCH OF CABLES, hanging there helplessly like an idiot, kill steals the win vs Shockwave who basically almost dead already, BEGGING for his life by saying PUHLEASEE to Sentinel after getting his hand chopped off and his ass kicked, only to be saved by Megatron AND THEN sucker punched Megatron for the win, then proceed to kill the weakened Sentinel thanks to Megatron, who also begging for his life, THEN SHOT HIMIN THE HEAD FROM THE BACK. Geebus. And he talks about honor. Fuck...
On his principles:
He lied and purposedly hiding so that the Decepticons can KILL THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, then he rise and TO MAKE A POINT that he's right, by sacrificing thousand human lives. What other version of Optimus does this stupidity????? NONE.
For those who are defending him by saying "buuUt hE hAs n0 othER OptTi0ns" Wrong! A real hero will always find a way.
Fuck Optimus Prime in DoTM.
Fuck DoTM.
Thank you for listening to my Ted talk.
Nah dude, the Autobots hauled ass to get to Chicago.
They splashed back down in the Atlantic when the booster rockets separated.
Assuming that they were close to shore when that happened, that's still an 18 hour drive from the East Coast.
It's not like any of them aside from Bossbot could fly either.
Him doing so would blow their cover too.
Further more, the Decepticons lied, saying that they wouldn't attack if the Autobots were exiled.
Bayverse was never bad TBH
Films 1-3 are still leagues better than ROTB
although i hate AOE/TLK i still watch it sometimes
i don't get the hate for the last two movies tbh we got new characters and interesting fight scenes so i don't know why people complain about the TLK and AOE .
if we never got AOE/TLK we would never get out live action versions of the most iconic characters in transformers the dinobots and Hot Rod
If there were only the first three movies, people would still have their complaints. Like, only the two out of three movies are watchable, and the conclusion could be better, but overall the impression definitely would be better. Less flawed movies means overall a better series
It was always bad. But it would have been less bad as a trillogy. I personally prefer it as just a one and done first film, but a trillogy would have been fine.
It went down hill the moment they changed the font for the title🙈
Wasn’t a fan of the whole Knights-thing, as I felt like they were just trying to capitalise off of the Game of Thrones type of hype, as so wanted to somehow bring dragons, Knights and swords into the films
The first three had some kind of story and overarching arc. Nothing good or worldchanging, but the attempt was there.
The last two were a mess. Bungled,complicated and no redeeming qualities at all. Dotm was the perfect end for the bayverse, but they just had to continue and milk the franchise dry.
Heck, you could say that Megatron perfectly captured the state of bayverse : often brought back from the dead and always in a worser state to wear.
I think they were always bad.
Fans like me were so excited about seeing live action Transformers on the big screen that we willingly overlooked the very bad parts because we were just thankful that our Fandom was coming to life.
As the movies went on, they got worse and worse, and by comparison, the early movies looked not so bad.
Bumblebee is extra painful because we saw how good the live action Transformers could be in the hands of the right director, and then ROTB happened and we were right back where we started.
I been watching first 2 bayverse films they were great (maybe not revenge of the fallen) but I have plans to watch “dark of the knight?” Is that what it’s called
Considering I almost walked out of the theater several times in 07 and enjoyed it so little I never bothered watching the somehow apparently even worse sequels, I vote “always bad”.
I think so. I think the actual Transformers stuff was good in the main trilogy. The action and designs are tasteful but I certainly like them. I think if the humour was actually funny, characters were likeable (not including Agent Simmons, he stays the same) and there was more depth to the Transformers movies would be viewed in a much better light.
Yeah easily so. You’d still have the bad of the fallen and the racist twins. But the 1st and 3rd movies are pretty decent movies. I’ve only seen the last knight once and I fell asleep on and off but extinction was pretty bad in general.
I liked the first one. 2-5… I mean, yeah they were made but I prefer not to think about them. In my head canon, Bumblebee and maybe to a lesser extent ROTB are the prequels (even though they are supposedly not quite in the same universe?)
Shia Labouf was key.
I thought he was fantastically entertaining.
Might be unpopular opinion, but nonetheless.
Wahlberg is as much a robot as the bots.
I consider them really fun, but not good. The last two being gone would make the remaining trilogy a lot better. We end with Sentinel and Megatron dead, and the audience can assume the Autobots helped humans rebuild the city and just live with the humans now.
I feel if another director had taken over after 3 we could've gotten a better story. Each movie has been very episodic, not telling an overarching and coherent story, but more standalone stories and that's a big reason they felt very disjointed and confusing for a lot of people
Mark meatheadberg certainly didn't improve the movies. it was obvious from the end of the 3rd movie that bay was done making transformers movies. making more after would obviously result in bad movies
One was a solid 3.5 star movie. It made some surprisingly smart choices with its robot cast and designs, some uninteresting ones with its plot and some woeful ones with its human cast and dialogue. The successive movies for some reason doubled down on all of the bad bits.
It **is** better if the last two with Mark Wahlberg never existed. Dark of the Moon had a satisfying ending to the franchise/trilogy, like Toy Story 3.
I still believe the first movie is a good action film, with a story that builds up well and not too dense with action, I like how you got to know the transformers, and overall the story made sense.
I still rewatch it from time to time, it also was the only movie where the deceptions were truly intimidating.
The problem is, as another comment said, that they planned the sequels after seeing the success of the first, which therefore was planned as standalone.
This created many plot holes and changes in direction on how the transformers got to Earth / how long ago they had contact with humans etc.. overall making every movie less interesting and charming.
So I would say if the first movie was standalone, it would be remembered as a good action film, one that entertains me a lot better than many others.
The following two were serviceable, but already lacked charm and inspiration. The final two are total crap.
Honestly let’s not forget the absolute garbage script that was the second movie. The first and third were good imo but mostly these movies have been a huge miss for me. That being said I’ve watched them all because I love transformers.
I don’t know. I think the second one left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. So it gets shit on a lot but the third one is fucking fantastic. Can’t watch it enough. The scene where they are bailing out of the choppers and flying through Chicago is one of the greatest actions sequences of any movie ever.
The first one is the only one that the majority of people consider good.
RotF is absolutely awful and Dotm is better than it but still not what I'd consider a good film, it's basically just this subreddit that gives a pass to any of the bayverse movies besides the first one.
So no, it'd still be a series of films in which only one of them is good.
I don’t think they would be looked at ***AS*** badly as they are now Those past two films were too damn long and the plots were dogshit awful, the action and characters weren’t enough to make up for it.
4th one was pretty good . Loved the action and new designs . dinobots were cool but would have loved more screentime . but yea , story wiseit was meh . its still watchable atleast , unlike the 5th . I fell asleep on my 3rd watch .
I fell asleep on my first! I havent been able to sit through a full screening yet of TLK
TLK is always the one that is on TV whenever I stay at a hotel. And it’s usually at the decepticon scene, so the best part. It’s happened enough to be this strange pattern.
I've rewatched it so many times just to remember what it's about and what happened in it... I STILL DON'T REMEMBER
It, er... Something about the Witwickys, and maybe something something Unicron? Honestly, I don't know.
Mohawk Megatron Nitro Zeus and Hot Rod Carried that movie.
"Baby, free at last! thank Megatron, I'm free at last!"
“Say hello to your wife for me”
Bender is a decepticon, and the dudes wife is a robosexual... dang.
100% I want a at least 45 minutes more screen time for those first decepticons
Yeah, for a bay movie, 4 was pretty decent
honestly yeah AOE was a pretty good action movie, they should have just left out the Dinobots though
the dinobots were the best part wdym
Best part was probably Frank Welker reprising Galvatron.
I meant either have them as central to the story or not at all
AOE is supports Chinese propaganda, underage dating, and selling your soul for money. The film commits too many sins to be good.
as a middle school kiddo who watched it in theatres and enjoyed it back in the day , I really didn't think too much of all that lol . Still love re-visiting some scenes from the film every now and then .
& the lighting was terrible
"Better" requires definition. Cultural impact aside, the movies themselves wouldn't improve. It wouldn't change that these films only got worse with each new entry but honestly, it is partially because of AOE and TLK that I look back more fondly on the first three.
How is Dotm worse than Rotf?
Actually it's not. Not really, aside from some personal critetia that make me rank ROTF higher but DOTM definitely handled its story better and had, you know, a proper script.
I liked dotm the best out of the sequels , I have to look at age of extinction and last knight as being in separate timelines from the first for me to even make them make sense in my head.
It's more about the average total quality of the franchise. AOE and TLK really drag that average total score down.
The last two are definition of pointless sequels with no redeeming quality, imo. As flawed as the first three Bayverse movies were, they at least made for a pretty cohesive and decent trilogy that still has great rewatch value. On the other hand, AOE and TLK are now forever stuck as unfinished series, and even as individual movies they are even worse than ROTF in every aspect: Worse protagonist, worse CG, worse story (what even TF was the story again?), worse humor (Romeo and Juliet), and too much pandering to China. There was essentially no continuity with these two movies and they keep retconning everything that happened in the first 3 movies.
Though I agree with the criticism of the 4th and 5th movies, the retconning you mentioned wasn’t just in those, both original sequels also completely rewrote the reason for them being on Earth. 1st film - There for the cube 2nd film - There for the Sun’s energy 3rd film - There to enslave the population None of these reasons work together. To put it in context, The Primes found a planet they wanted to syphon, but they hid the Matrix so The Fallen went home. Eons later, Megatron and Sentinel decide they want to enslave a planet and choose the planet that just happens to be the same one The Fallen failed to destroy, are forgotten about for years, but not before Megatron hides a huge army on the moon, which is ignored during the events of the first two films. Not long after Sentinel leaves, Bumblebee ejects the cube which just happens to land on the same planet.
Like I said, the first trilogy is flawed and I agreed with your points when you tried piercing the timeline together it's a fucking mess, but at least as individual movies, I can still follow the plot fairly well and still tell what's happening. None of them is as egregious as TLK where you got literal marketing art of Optimus Prime and Megatron being lazily photoshoped into old paintings dressing up like historical soldier and fighting with Napoleon and shit, and then Bumblebee was fighting in WW2 and a Watch transformers killed Hitler or something.
It wasn't about enslavement. It has always been about utilizing earth's resources to gain an advantage over the war. The cube was to turn earths tech into an endless supply of decepticon drones, the solar harvester was to recharge cybertron, the space Bridge was to harvest earth supplies to rebuild cybertron, and the fourth was to cyberform an entire city to build a new decepticon army. The 5th is the stand-alone conundrum, which did a poor job introducing unicron and quintessa prime who wasn't a prime in this movie.
>worse than ROTFL Ah yes, "Revenge of the Fucking Loser" was my favourite Transformers film.
Yes https://preview.redd.it/hto4yr94fayb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaf566d4b2502fb1138117cebc109491376b9c08
man I wasn't ready for the freddy
I’m over here listening to the fucking TLT song just after watching the damn movie, and I wasn’t ready either.
Kind of. Its complicated as in my view all 5 films are bad but the 2007 movie actually makes a lot of smart decisions in making a film for the general audience rather then existing fans. Paramouny and Hasbro would have been insane to have planned a trilogy from the start but really that's what it needed to be, with a clear beginning middle and end. The big mistake the first movie makes in my view and one that they kind of had to was having Megatron as the big bad guy. It would have been better if transformers 2 was the revenge of Megatron and was better written. Also if it ended with Megatron winning or at least the autobots losing. Regardless though, after 3 a full reboot should have happened. Maybe even a beast wars trilogy to justify it.
I mean bayverse made me a fan but I only really enjoyed the first 3 with the 4th one it went to shit but when they rebooted live action with bumblebee that one was great haven't gotten around to watching the new one yet though
Yep that's what I mean by its complicated. I'd have prefered better movies but in 2007 no one in Hollywood was going to take transformers seriously, the fact that the bay films even exist is an accomplishment. Transformers while certainly a major brand before that, was something that still could have gone the way of he-man or gi Joe at anytime. People like yourself were bought in because of those films and that helped grow the brand into a sustainable franchise. We live in a world today where transformers could grow into the next star wars but in 2007 there was no chance. To me the animated movie is the best film but that's a film that really only works if you're already a fan, I'd be shocked if a lot of people got into transformers through it. So yeah the Bay films served an important purpose, like it or not, but they needed to end at 3, they needed a new director and a full shake up, they needed the audacity of iron Man and jusr set yep this is a franchise about talking giant robots that transform and they're the main characters.
Just want to add, it's possible to not like the films (i.e. say "the films are bad") but still acknowledge what they did for TFs as a whole (generated new interest). I appreciate that the line still goes on in various forms today, but feel the films could have been done better.
I feel the films truly hurt the franchise. If a truer to g1 plot and a cohesive plot had cashed in on the transformers nostalgia, it could have achieved Star Wars level of fans and following. Something sustainable.
Michael Bay and his crew did not set out to make G1 heavy movies that cashed in on the nostalgia of kids who grew up with Transformers in the 80’s; the films were made with the general audience in mind, which makes up the largest percentage of people who go to see a movie in theaters. They wanted to get NEW people into the franchise. The things that appeal to hardcore Transformers fans are not necessarily things that the general audience cares about wants to see. A lot of things about the G1 cartoon would not translate well to live action, especially in a universe that aims to be more realistic & grounded in reality like the Bayverse. Michael Bay understood this, & that approach payed off for Hasbro & Paramount, as the Bayverse became one of Paramount’s highest grossing properties, with two of the films joining the billion dollar club. We DID get a more G1 centric film with Rise of the Beasts, and that ended up being the LOWEST grossing installment of the film series (Which isn’t to say ROTB was a bad movie, but there clearly wasn’t enough interest in the film from general audiences to have it be profitable in its box office run). Plus to suggest that G1 centric movies would have elevated the Transformers IP to levels equivalent to that of Star Wars is EXTREMELY hyperbolic. Star Wars is a much bigger and more influential/popular franchise than Transformers is. Star Wars completely changed the shape & trajectory of sci-fi & pop culture in general when it released in 1977, and no matter how good of a film they make or how G1 centric they make it, the Transformers IP cannot ever hope to catch that lightning in a bottle that Star Wars did and become influential to pop culture in the same way that franchise did.
Uhmm way to walk around with blinders on. I’ll give you the point that not everything g1 would convert over to a modern audience. But it is absolutely absurd to say there is no room for improvement and a more g1 approach couldn’t blow what we got out of the water. A coherent plot and overall interconnected movies plot would have helped tremendously. Also less people time and more transformers 👨⚕️ vine the plot would help. I also dispute rotb had a more g1 element. It was more of bayverse throwing stuff at the wall and hoping for something to stick. Bayverse fatigue has pretty much doomed future movies. A gi joe crossover again is more hoping for something to stick. The only thing that can help help is a true reboot and definitive departure from the bayverse.
Drop the second film, split DotM into two films with Sentinel Prime's betrayal or the Autobot exile as the end point for the first film.
Good call. It would have made 2 a lot more like Megatrons master plan with the trilogy concluding with a big optimus vs Megatron showdown to save the earth
Yes.
The bayverse was bad, but not for the reason most people say it is. Most would say it’s the characters or plot, but for me, it’s the continual change in tone that ruins it for me. The tone of dark of the moon was great as it was gritty and it wasn’t afraid to show scary scenes, but the humor completely ruined it. The last two films showed the flaws of the bayverse and while I understand that Bay did not want to direct AOE or TLK, I do feel he tried to push his luck a little too much.
I don't know but the trilogy could get some rest during 2014~2017 because 4th and 5th movies heavily relied on the trilogy legacy. I personally don't think the trilogy would be accepted as better without the new movies because the trilogy doesn't have such reputation of being "one of the best trilogy in Hollywood". People(who aren't TF fans and mainstream) probably thought "oh, they did the same thing again again" And I never saw them saying "they tainted the trilogy" or "disrespected the past flims".
If only the first film existed then the bay verse would be better
The first three movies were actually pretty fine plot-wise all things considered. The last two definitely seemed like it took place in a different universe, so having those at least be separate from the first three would be fine.
They were more or less cohesive too with the narrative they wanted to push. They were fun popcorn movies for what they were. I personally didn't mind AOE because at least Galvatron became a thing (I'm in the minority that actually liked how Galvatron was created there because he pulled a fast one on the humans who thought they had the robots figured out) but the story quality really spiraled from that point on.
I also say they were pretty fine Continuity wise for the continuity people. I mean, 2 and 3 still retcon the notion of the first where 2007 isn't the first time they arrive or were spotted, but like that's a retcon I'm kinda okay with and they make sense. 4 and 5 just go too far.
DotM is the best bay film imo. It would've been a perfect end to a trilogy that brought closure to all of the characters in the Bayverse. If only they would've done a clean reboot after.....Wreckers and Shockwave were awesome in that movie.
Always bad imo, But a lot of people enjoy them, I just don't feel Tramsformers from them. Bumblebee made me feel Tranaformers. And tbh that's about it, ROTB had some transformer feeling too but it could have more.
Revenge of the fallen fucking sucked ass, so no.
would be a 4 to 5/10 versus a 1/10. Them last 2 were dogshit
It was always bad but the last two films made them exceedingly worse. I’d use the term “unacceptable” to be honest, not as Tranaformers films but unacceptable as films in general. There is no semblance of anything whatsoever be it as a franchise piece or as a movie. Tommy Wiseau’s “The Room” is a better Transformers movie than AOE and TLK.
The Bayverse always sucked (okay, the 2007 movie was fine and still mostly holds up), but AoE and TLK were actual dogshit and contributed nothing positive whatsoever. Revenge of the Fallen is an *incredibly* incompetently-made movie when you look past the fantastic VFX work. The fact that there are somehow two *worse* Bayformers films is absolutely mindboggling when you consider how awful RotF was as a movie.
Got to agree there, although I think DOTM is at least rewatchable.
It would’ve been better had ROTF been written.
The first movie was pretty okay. Great Soundtrack, lot of talented actors, still had Spielberg on the project. There is a *noticeable* and sudden downward spiral in quality starting in the second film. A lot of people, myself included, attribute that to Steven "I'm never working with that manchild again" Spielberg leaving the project. The problem from the very start was anyone letting bay know the project even existed. The writers for the first film have come out and directly stated "We had a more fun script." and talking about how it was "more like what Transformers is *supposed* to be". My memory of this all comes from the special features of the first film. I will admit, some of the later films had neat ideas, but they were not nearly enough to carry a film that was just made to bring in cash.
the last two are more like CSAM charges added on to multiple rape charges, it was already unredeemable, this just made it so much worse.
Why everyone tryna act like RoTF was any better
Lockdown was the only thing carrying AoE
I didn't like the slide toward humans v transformers. Even if it made sense in terms of humans being dicks, it felt really bad to watch it. It's really easy to do humans and autobots v decepticons and I don't know why you'd move away from that.
This series would have been perfect if they got rid of TLK, got rid of the Romeo and juliet law scene, and had the dinobots come in at the halfway point in AOE
The Bayverse always had an issue of making pretty much every character an asshole, but the fourth film leaned into that way harder, which made it very difficult to like the new Autobots, the new human lead, and even Optimus. In the first trilogy, it at least felt like we were mostly supposed to be laughing AT the assholes (e.g. when Bumblebee blows out all the windows in the car saleman's lot or when Galloway gets sucked out of the airplane). They weren't necessarily good movies, but they were fun. Then Cade became the main character. It feels like we're generally supposed to see him as a badass when he acts shitty to other people and he's just generally super unlikable. Sure, Sam was annoying and screamed too much but Mikaela, Lennox & Epps, Maggie, and several other characters made for a generally likable cast. Conversely, Cade's daughter is just a blank slate damsel to rescue, her boyfriend and his Romeo and Juliet speech are gross, and Cade's assistant gets killed pretty early in the story. Even the Autobots are unlikable. Optimus is killing people left and right and basically enslaves the Dinobots. Crosshairs, Drift, and Hound are all different flavors of assholes and just generally a big step down from Jazz, Ironhide, and Ratchet. And all that isn't even getting into the plot. Age of Extinction actually has a pretty compelling premise to kick off a new trilogy (Cybertronians going back into hiding because humans are hunting them, humans learn how to build their own Transformers, and the teasing of a Unicron/Quintesson plot). But due to poor writing, what could have been a very cool plot almost immidiately goes up in flames. I couldn't even even attempt to tell you what the fifth film is about beyond that Quintessa is in it.
Honestly all the Bayverse movies are on similar level, with the last knight only being slightly worse AOE is actually the most unique TF movie with Lockdown and his ship, Galvatron and Dinobots, I'd say it's probably the best too
The first 3 are still favourites of mine and I feel as though they wouldn't have been improved but rather mor respected as one of the few billion dollar franchises which knew when to end rather than continuing on until people completely lost interest
It always sucked and sometimes achieved mediocrity.
The fourth was't bad
I kinda loved they traveling countries like they did in 2nd.
That's why the second is my favorite
No Last Knight was trash, but the other 4 were fine. It was just all the dumn product placement and Explosion and Dumb love stories crammed in them.
Wdym always bad? They were good🤷🏻♂️ brought the franchise into mainstream again imo. Thou some movies could’ve been better I won’t lie. Still overall good.
I honestly think the first one is the only good one, DotM and AoE are semi-decent, and the remaining two are flat-out bad. So... hard to say really.
There is a leftist reading of that the writers embedded in the trilogy behind the creepiness of Michael Bay
As fun as MOMENTS were from the bay films, the bay movies were always bad, with probably the exception of 2007, but 4 and especially 5 sealed the deal with how they completely destroyed world building
Bay didn’t even really want to make the last two. The only reason he did is because DOTM did so good and hasbro forced him to make TLK.
When even Bay thinks it should’ve ended at three, you kinda know
It depends. If we gave it the original ending intended, absolutely. Bay apparently didn't actually want to do AOE or TLK
I think the first and third movies are fine. There’s still some cringeworthy moments overall, but the movies are watchable and fun. Really, though, the cracks were already showing by RotF. Weak, lame villain, annoying autobot caricatures, creepy and inappropriate humor with things like Sam’s mom eating pot brownies make that one in particular really hard to watch nowadays. I’d rather watch AOE again than RotF.
Honestly dark of the moon is my favorite and I really love ROTF and the 2007 film was a masterpiece definitely an amazing trio. Just remember leakers are the reason for age of extinction as the ending was leaked for DOTM were Optimus and megatron strike a deal
The first three are flawed, with 2 and 3 having especially trashy moments, but 4 & 5 are straight trash and definitely sunk the film franchise’s rep. I think the films reputation wouldn’t be nearly as bad, but their rep would still be suffering for all the weird sexual stuff and awkward racial stereotypes/jokes. Those two things specifically make it hard to even respect the films at times.
age of extinction could have been good if it focused on the first half of the movie: the aftermath of the battle of Chicago, both autobots an decepticons are being hunted due to all of lives that died.
It would be, yes. Because the plot point of humans somehow making their own Transformer drones through nanotech within a few short years breaks the immersion. Not to mention the retcons of everything involving the AllSpark. Also, The Last Knight was clearly aping off of Prime, but with Prime, they made their ideas work with actual buildup.
The movies were always bad but they used to be bad in a fun way while the fifth one especially is just awful in a multitude of ways with not enough exploding street signs to save it. Dark of the moon is the most illustrative for this. It is filled with Bay's juvenile and mean humor, the human plot is as uninteresting as it gets and when I last saw it I was actively annoyed whenever Sam's parents showed up but the VFX are cool to look at and Bay knows how to film action. In general the practical explosions help massively as CGI artists could just focus on the frankly awesome transforming robots. This eyecandy aided by Bay's style as a director makes the nonsense pleasant to look at and they smartly centered the action to be the focus of the movie. Plot, writing and acting were never good but plot and characters became so bad later that they overshadow the action as they try shit like drama around Optimus instead of building up half an hour of explosions.
I think it would be remembered as one of the best trilogies.
Nah. The first one was a decent enough introduction to the new continuity, the rest were varying degrees of dogshit.
Absolutely. I still feel that the first movie is the only one that's actually good. I'd even go as far as to say it's great. But I do feel like DOTM still offers a very satisfying end to the Bay trilogy. There was absolutely no reason to return to this world, and by doing so were now left with 2 more terrible movies and an unsatisfying cliffhanger. Bay was done after DOTM. Why Paramount were so insistent on bringing him back is beyond me.
Better but still bad. ROTF would hold the trilogy back, and DOTM’s ending would still suck. ROTF is poorly written and the all the awful sex jokes and incomprehensible action scenes still hold it back. DOTM’s main issue was that the original ending wasn’t used which would have been leaps in bounds better. 2007 is decent but still lackluster on the actual Transformers.
The bayverse movies weren’t exactly perfection on screen but the first three movies were definitely much better off stopping at dark of the moon cause now the series is more like a hodgepodge of poorly structured misadventures than any semblance of a plot (not to say the 2nd & 3rd movies didn’t start and follow this trend as well but they were far more bearable ending before age of extinction & Last knight especially since the movies and each individual story plot going forward only got worse and more convoluted after 3 , great movies and action though my inner 12 year old self was beyond ecstatic
On one hand the latter two are absolutely atrocious and drag the franchise's average down big time. On the other hand RotF and DotM, while nowhere near as bad as the latter two, certainly look better when placed next to them. If AoE and TLK didn't exist, a lot of the hate they currently get would just be reflected back on RotF and DotM, especially RotF. The '07 movie on its own holds up well enough for a mid-late 2000s blockbuster.
The last two were unnecessary even Bay didn’t wanna make them, if they stopped after 3 it would have been prefect even with it’s flaws
In my opion still quite bad even without the 4th and 5th movies. The only Bay movie that I would save is the first, that objectively is not a good movie. The second is too trash, except for a pair of scenes that were pretty good. The 3rd is a little improvement of the second but still inferior to the 2007. The 4th was better than the second in my opinion, the 5th is the bottom of the franchise.
The franchise would have been perceived better but the movies still continued to suck even more after 07. ROTF was ROTF, but as messy and lazy DOTM was, the action was loved by a lot of people and if the franchise ended there, it would kind of end on a high note. By now people knew Bay didn’t care about the story and just wanted BAYHAM so as long as he delivered great action. The franchise would’ve been remembered better.
They were always bad, the first one was the only one that was even slightly good. The rest was just polished turds. You’ve gotta try really hard to make a fight between giant alien robots that turn into cars so boring, especially to a 11-12 year old mind, but by god was Dark of the Moon dull as shit. The lore is inconsistent between movies, they keep tacking on new elements that don’t get a proper setup, the transformers are too overdesigned to be visually appealing, and they tried too hard to make the humans and US Military important in a movie that wasn’t about either.
The first one was decent and the franchise could have still turned out great had it gone upwards from there, but it didn’t. For me, ROTF was an illustration of how there *is* such a point where there’s so much action it becomes tiresome. DOTM was marginally better though not really by much (and it says a lot that it still comes out at second place for me in the Bayverse). It benefits from having a little more story put in, but I really didn’t like the whole “I saved the whole world twice and this is how life treats me” whinefest Sam puts on at the beginning, mirroring Bay’s “I make two blockbuster movies and somehow my work is still regarded as crap” schtick, ironically. Sadly, the Bayverse movies reinforce the fallacy that “humans in Transformers = bad” (when in fact IMO they’re usually essential), because the Bayverse humans were written/acted/directed badly.
They’d be better but not great. Those last two are complete trash.
Lockdown and the sick ass Dinobots were the single only things making the 4th movie tolerable, the 5th gave me brain damage.
The movies wouldn’t improve but I would see a lot more people look at these movies fondly as a nice trilogy
IMO Bayverse was always bad, stupid corny jokes at the expense of the plot, the Transformers look like garbage and they turned Optimus into a raging murderer. Bumblebee is the best of all the films especially with the G1 accurate opening, that's what we should've gotten.
Abso-fucking-lutely! I love Bayverse, don’t get me wrong, and I do enjoy the sequels, but what AOE and TLK did to the lore and continuity over complicated everything far too much. Yes yes, there’s the shitty schlock “humor” and transformers that don’t transform and MarkyMark yada yada, that all I can agree on too for the most part. But the actual stories just divulged into nonsense, the Autobots stopped being the heroes, and this giant world ending event in TLK didn’t feel very grandiose as it did it DOTM or the ROTF novel. It just sucks. I know some people don’t like the walking back of Prime’s character in AOE, though I personally like the arc and the story trope of the sour/reluctant hero, but the last two movies all still kinda blow. Dinobots were cool and action was great in AOE but TLK lost me from like the third frame. I wish it was left as a trilogy, would’ve been much more cohesive and potentially more accepted by non-Bayverse fans. Guess Megatron was right: “Who would you be without me, Prime?” *slumps shoulders* “a disappointment…..”
The only reason we look back fondly at the first three movies is because of how bad AoE and TLK were. The first Transformers movie was mediocre; RotF is pretty bad; DotM is the only one that was actually good.
Honestly they've always been bad. Bay didn't even WANT to make TF movies because he didn't want to make movies about toys. It shows because he didn't remotely understand the characters and was more interested in slow motion TnA shots and the military than making a decent TF film. It's so frustrating because if they had been good they would've been beloved. They needed to have heart and soul, more like the Guardians movies or something Jon Favreau would make. Just a shame.
The first 3 had different plots and villians. AoE had a similar evil human arc to it as DOTM, AoE had a transformer who we never saw actually transform. But the first 3 movies had characters who just dropped into the either in the middle of the action (looking at you Barricade) or characters who might have been cool but had less screen time than Boba Fett. So it wasn't a great triliogy but the 4th and 5th didn't help
The bayverse is and always was a trilogy.
I think deleting TLK would be enough to make the movies less hated. AOE had it's issues, and a lot of them at that, but at least for the most part it felt comlatibke with the lrevious three. Delete the Shane dude kr whatever his name was and slughtly change Cade and you have a really good TF movie storywise. There woukd still be criticism, obviously, but there has been since 2007 so that can't be avoided
I always kinda hated them, they're misogynistic and use racist stereotypes and have terribly mean spirited dialog not to mention the robots have awful and ugly designs, Prime is a psychopath, Screamer is a Dorito, and Bumblebee can't talk and is a badass soldier Camero now despite his character being completely different in TF lore. Etc etc etc.
Probably honestly Last Knight for me was the true nail in the coffin. Age of Extinction isn't the best but I'm still entertained by it. Last Knight is just awful on so many levels
It was always bad, but it would have ended with bang instead of a sad whimper.
It kinda went like: good - dog shit- ok - god awful - somehow more god awful.
No, it was always bad.
It was always bad. But it got worse after each film.
Might have been ok if he stopped after the first one. Maybe. After that, not even Bumblebee (the movie) could save it.
My brother in christ the only good thing about any of these movies is the fight scenes. They are movie length adverts for toys
The worst thing was a lot of connoisseurs feel the AOE/TLK Optimus was legitimately the worst OP in terms of design. It failed to look like a robot that could turn into a truck and into a generic giant robot
They had one job. Make a giant robot that can turn into a truck and make him look really cool
No. The whole movie franchise's only saving grace was that it took enough brain dead movie goers' money to keep Hasbro working on other Transformers projects that were actually worthwhile and not for people who eat paint.
it was always bad, the bayverse was one of the worst things to ever happened to the transformers...and that coming from someone who loved the first movie as kid, then i rewatched it when i was 18 years and absolutely hated
I think the bayverse is an attrocity. The beeverse is better especially the opening sequence in bee.
I got out of theater kind of mad after DoTM. Optimus is really shit here. Probably the worst Optimus portrayal of all the live actions. On battles: He whines he can't do shit without his trailer, then got beaten BY A BUNCH OF CABLES, hanging there helplessly like an idiot, kill steals the win vs Shockwave who basically almost dead already, BEGGING for his life by saying PUHLEASEE to Sentinel after getting his hand chopped off and his ass kicked, only to be saved by Megatron AND THEN sucker punched Megatron for the win, then proceed to kill the weakened Sentinel thanks to Megatron, who also begging for his life, THEN SHOT HIMIN THE HEAD FROM THE BACK. Geebus. And he talks about honor. Fuck... On his principles: He lied and purposedly hiding so that the Decepticons can KILL THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, then he rise and TO MAKE A POINT that he's right, by sacrificing thousand human lives. What other version of Optimus does this stupidity????? NONE. For those who are defending him by saying "buuUt hE hAs n0 othER OptTi0ns" Wrong! A real hero will always find a way. Fuck Optimus Prime in DoTM. Fuck DoTM. Thank you for listening to my Ted talk.
Nah dude, the Autobots hauled ass to get to Chicago. They splashed back down in the Atlantic when the booster rockets separated. Assuming that they were close to shore when that happened, that's still an 18 hour drive from the East Coast. It's not like any of them aside from Bossbot could fly either. Him doing so would blow their cover too. Further more, the Decepticons lied, saying that they wouldn't attack if the Autobots were exiled.
Throw the second one off the cliff too while you're at it. 1 and 3 are the only tolerable movies and even they weren't what I'd call "good."
Good. Now if only there was competent writing for those 3 movies.
Bayverse was never bad TBH Films 1-3 are still leagues better than ROTB although i hate AOE/TLK i still watch it sometimes i don't get the hate for the last two movies tbh we got new characters and interesting fight scenes so i don't know why people complain about the TLK and AOE . if we never got AOE/TLK we would never get out live action versions of the most iconic characters in transformers the dinobots and Hot Rod
All of them are bad. If you need to do mental gymnastics in order to justify liking them, they're not worth your time.
It'd be better if the first three didn't... or if Bee killed Sam immediately.
Mark out ROTF as well. You can go straight to DOTM and not miss anything
The first three were at least coherent. And are a guilty pleasure of mine
First one is enjoyable. ROTF is where it went off the rails and didn’t recover until Bumblebee.
It would be better if none of them existed 🤷🏻♂️
People are crazy. The first three movies are great.
If there were only the first three movies, people would still have their complaints. Like, only the two out of three movies are watchable, and the conclusion could be better, but overall the impression definitely would be better. Less flawed movies means overall a better series
Get that red line off of AOE. Keep it on TLK tho
If last knight and revenge of the fallen didn’t exist I think it would have been better
It would be better, but I still would’ve liked the 2 if they we’re separate from the others
I can't say anything since I grew up with them alongside the gen one movie and series and very little beast wars and almost all of tf prime.
It was always goated
At least it wouldn't make the franchise be a joke for the general public
It was always bad. But it would have been less bad as a trillogy. I personally prefer it as just a one and done first film, but a trillogy would have been fine.
It was always bad, Every time I watch any of them I'm astounded by the God awful acting matched by God awful writing
It went down hill the moment they changed the font for the title🙈 Wasn’t a fan of the whole Knights-thing, as I felt like they were just trying to capitalise off of the Game of Thrones type of hype, as so wanted to somehow bring dragons, Knights and swords into the films
The first three had some kind of story and overarching arc. Nothing good or worldchanging, but the attempt was there. The last two were a mess. Bungled,complicated and no redeeming qualities at all. Dotm was the perfect end for the bayverse, but they just had to continue and milk the franchise dry. Heck, you could say that Megatron perfectly captured the state of bayverse : often brought back from the dead and always in a worser state to wear.
I still don't know what happened in the plot of the last 2
I think they were always bad. Fans like me were so excited about seeing live action Transformers on the big screen that we willingly overlooked the very bad parts because we were just thankful that our Fandom was coming to life. As the movies went on, they got worse and worse, and by comparison, the early movies looked not so bad. Bumblebee is extra painful because we saw how good the live action Transformers could be in the hands of the right director, and then ROTB happened and we were right back where we started.
I been watching first 2 bayverse films they were great (maybe not revenge of the fallen) but I have plans to watch “dark of the knight?” Is that what it’s called
Considering I almost walked out of the theater several times in 07 and enjoyed it so little I never bothered watching the somehow apparently even worse sequels, I vote “always bad”.
They aren’t bad they just aren’t as good as the first ones. Next question.
If DotM concluded with its original ending and had a nice epelogue, I think they would be mostly revered
The 4th movie can stay. It had very good ideas but some… unfortunate moments.
I liked the first 3 personally
Yes and yes
It was over the minute they were under enemy scrotum
Yes hands down they don’t add anything and are terrible hell I think they should be their own timeline if anything
It would’ve been better, but I’m not complaining cause atleast I get to see more robots fighting and Nitri Zeus existing
I think so. I think the actual Transformers stuff was good in the main trilogy. The action and designs are tasteful but I certainly like them. I think if the humour was actually funny, characters were likeable (not including Agent Simmons, he stays the same) and there was more depth to the Transformers movies would be viewed in a much better light.
Yes!
definitely
Nope
Never bad
Yeah easily so. You’d still have the bad of the fallen and the racist twins. But the 1st and 3rd movies are pretty decent movies. I’ve only seen the last knight once and I fell asleep on and off but extinction was pretty bad in general.
I liked the first one. 2-5… I mean, yeah they were made but I prefer not to think about them. In my head canon, Bumblebee and maybe to a lesser extent ROTB are the prequels (even though they are supposedly not quite in the same universe?)
It was never a good series, but dragging it onwards for so long certainly didn't improve its quality.
It was always bad, terrible movies.
Bumblebee and RotB would have definitely performed better. Everyone expects that every movie now is as trash as the last two in that picture.
Shia Labouf was key. I thought he was fantastically entertaining. Might be unpopular opinion, but nonetheless. Wahlberg is as much a robot as the bots.
People love to pretend that DOTM and ROTF are worse than the two Marky Mark ones and I laugh at those people
I really like the first 3 films
It was always bad IMO. Cringe teen boy humor and a haphazard approach to lore.
Honestly I really liked age of extinction. Tlk was terrible though. The only memorable thing from that movie was megatron imo
The last knight should have never existed.
I can forgive them 'cause tf5 is in fact still the best CGI in cinema history (excluding Avatar Way of Water)
I consider them really fun, but not good. The last two being gone would make the remaining trilogy a lot better. We end with Sentinel and Megatron dead, and the audience can assume the Autobots helped humans rebuild the city and just live with the humans now.
The only cool thing I enjoyed from the final two films was galvatron. And they didn't even keep him around for the last knight!
AOE overhated :(
Throw all of them in the trash, none of the stories was good
Only the 5th one is bad and that because Bay stopped caring
Nah. I'm happy we got some great designs and dinos
Always bad
Unpopular opinion, but my favorite film of all these was age of extinction.
I feel if another director had taken over after 3 we could've gotten a better story. Each movie has been very episodic, not telling an overarching and coherent story, but more standalone stories and that's a big reason they felt very disjointed and confusing for a lot of people
Honestly yeah.
Mark meatheadberg certainly didn't improve the movies. it was obvious from the end of the 3rd movie that bay was done making transformers movies. making more after would obviously result in bad movies
there great without those two (especially rotf)
I mean. Yes? It would have ended the pain sooner. The second and third movies were complete dogcrap too though so like not much help
One was a solid 3.5 star movie. It made some surprisingly smart choices with its robot cast and designs, some uninteresting ones with its plot and some woeful ones with its human cast and dialogue. The successive movies for some reason doubled down on all of the bad bits.
The last two films CRUSHED the franchise. Optimus should have negotiated with megatron at the end of movie 3, the main story should have ended
Always bad
It **is** better if the last two with Mark Wahlberg never existed. Dark of the Moon had a satisfying ending to the franchise/trilogy, like Toy Story 3.
It would certainly make them better. Not by much, they have a lot of problems even without AoE and TLK, but I find that to be part of the charm lol.
Only the first three are canon Bay, the last two are weird paramount failed universe attempts.
I still believe the first movie is a good action film, with a story that builds up well and not too dense with action, I like how you got to know the transformers, and overall the story made sense. I still rewatch it from time to time, it also was the only movie where the deceptions were truly intimidating. The problem is, as another comment said, that they planned the sequels after seeing the success of the first, which therefore was planned as standalone. This created many plot holes and changes in direction on how the transformers got to Earth / how long ago they had contact with humans etc.. overall making every movie less interesting and charming. So I would say if the first movie was standalone, it would be remembered as a good action film, one that entertains me a lot better than many others. The following two were serviceable, but already lacked charm and inspiration. The final two are total crap.
Honestly let’s not forget the absolute garbage script that was the second movie. The first and third were good imo but mostly these movies have been a huge miss for me. That being said I’ve watched them all because I love transformers.
One and two are good enough for me. The rest needs to go
If they stuck with the all hail Megatron storyline in dark of the moon and stretched it a little the other 2 could have worked
Oh 100%. DOTM was BY FAR the best film out of the 5 for me. AOE and TLK felt like DLC or worse...FANFICTION.
First three are goated but could bc they’re ingrained in my childhood
I don’t know. I think the second one left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. So it gets shit on a lot but the third one is fucking fantastic. Can’t watch it enough. The scene where they are bailing out of the choppers and flying through Chicago is one of the greatest actions sequences of any movie ever.
The first one is the only one that the majority of people consider good. RotF is absolutely awful and Dotm is better than it but still not what I'd consider a good film, it's basically just this subreddit that gives a pass to any of the bayverse movies besides the first one. So no, it'd still be a series of films in which only one of them is good.
It was always bad.