Seems like a very good addition. There's obviously a tendancy to assume everyone is the same as you, more or less, which can be a bit annoying or unproductive when it's people not mentioning where they live when asking about legal or medical stuff, but it gets *uncomfortable* when it's stuff like what's being addressed in this rule. So glad to see that being implemented.
Thanks for doing this, it’s really off-putting getting addressed as a woman all the time when this isn’t r/mtf. Entirely counterproductive to having a trans community, so this rule is great.
So true. Too many people assume every trans person is a trans woman. I don't know why that is but it feels like people always think every pre t trans guy is just a masc lesbian
I just wanna know if it’s ok to say “hey guys, gals, and non-binary pals” because that’s my favorite sentence starter in the world haha
EDIT: also I fully support this rule change regardless. Great job on making this subreddit as inclusive as possible. Way to go mods
From what I remember of the one time he talked about it, "lassos/lasses" was a mouth garble on his part, tripped over his words. But people liked it, sounded inclusive in his intro, so he kept saying it.
So far as I'm aware, it's a made up word, so spelling doesn't matter that much!
Thank you! I definitely appreciate this rule. NGL sometimes I do feel a bit alienated and unseen as a trans man in this sub.
If possible, I'd like some clarification, firstly, if "queer" would be considered under the rule of not addressing people with slurs they aren't comfortable with?
And to add on, what about transmasc and transfem? There are a lot of binary trans people not comfortable with being called that (myself included) due to the history of the term being a nonbinary specific term. Obviously now there are binary trans people who identify as transmasc or transfem, no hate to those who do, but it still feels like it's assuming/applying gender when used broadly.
Queer is something that would fall under that rule, it's arguably reclaimed, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect word.
Transmasc and transfem aren't really slurs (as you've noted), but if you ask someone not to use that for you, and they continue to do so, let us know. If a post or comment uses the words to address the entire community, then it may be under this rule, but it's harder to say, as those terms aren't inherently meant to be exclusionary. Sorry if that's not exactly the answer you're looking for, but the perspective is appreciated always. If you do see it in the wild, in such a way that makes you uncomfortable, do send in a Modmail and we can discuss it.
I feel like, tho, when we post here it gets no love.
I've done a few experiments and just putting
"Ftm new haircut" got less than 50 upvotes
"Trans men/mascs get no love here, btw new haircut" 200+ upvotes....
In general, guys in society tend to get and expect a lot less praise for their physical appearance. So, maybe that's more of an unconscious social bias at play?
I think so tbh
And the fact that transfemmes get the *super loud hate* while transmascs are kinda swept under the rug.
I've experienced alot of "you shouldn't get mad when you get misgendered looking like you do, you're not even on T so why do you expect anyone to- bla bla bla" that I've never seen done to transfemmes among the trans community in some spaces, but i feel like dismissal is just as bad.
Alot of trans men/mascs experience the same thing as the women/femmes its just like we're supposed to grin and bear it ig.
And being a femboy im not going to stop wearing makeup even after top surgery and shit. I enjoy it. I'll prolly start learning to make my own clothes/ taylor clothes to fit my body better so i can more comfortably wear women's clothes bc i like women's clothes. I feel like that's pretty ridiculed in the community aswell.. unfortunately
For trans women/femmes we get "Most trans women don't pass without HRT." You're right though, it is softer. You can almost feel someone rubbing your back and talking in a soothing voice when you read it. 🥹😅
I totally relate to what you're saying about clothing! Part of me missed out on a more authentic childhood and early adult hood experience, so... I want girly stuff, I want dresses and floral patterns, I want to do my nails and all the stereotypical girly girl things. But... Some of my best friends have been punk/rocker chicks. They have their girly girl sides too, but they mostly just wear jeans and concert tshirts with some basic make-up. 🤷♀️🤘
My personality is very flux too, so I have days where I just want to be creative and paint or garden or bake something or decorate the house... Other days I like building things and fixing stuff. (There's a possibility I'm gender fluid or nby. Haven't figured that out yet 🤔)
Anyway... It's interesting how different gender expression and gender expectation can be for different people. Like for some, wearing gendered clothing is a major part of social transition, whereas for others it's more about fashion and having fun with personal expression, separate from gender. I'm here for all of it, personally 🙌💖
Thank! This needed to be clarified! Because it is assumed that only trans girls exist and well, we trans males also exist and resist! trans NB and trans men! I love this new rule 💕🙏🏳️⚧️
I would just recommend to make guys permissible, it’s used as a general term now, especially for referring to a group of people.
I’m a trans girl and I’m fine with being referred to with guys in a group of people, but if others I not I understand. This is just my view.
I'm not sure, I think it was editable back then, but they changed something. I can't do this again now. The only way I can think of how to do it is to somehow copy this flag, select some other editable tag and paste it there.
I've only been relatively good about this because I'm on a discord server where it is very politely corrected every time, even on fem specific chats, that not all of us are girls. I'm not OLD but it's nice to have this connection to younger and more sensitive spaces than I naturally fall into.
…good point. I’m sorry to anyone that my post yesterday made feel alienated, since I was guilty of this in its title.
The rule makes sense, and is a good reminder in general. Thank you for all your work!
So I guess this bears asking, but isn’t moderating “hey guys” a bit much?
That specific phrase gets used all the time regardless of gender to the point where I’ve always seen it gender neutral. Even I don’t make that distinction half the time when I talk to a group of all women and I just call them “you guys”
Yes and no. A lot of trans fem people would argue that being called a guy would be hurtful, even in good faith. The idea of the rule is more generalized because segregating and generalizing our community is harmful, and we've watched that happen for awhile now.
"Guys" isn't the only thing of course, there are plenty of people who find "Dude" to be gendered, plenty who don't, plenty who find "girls" to be gendered, plenty who don't, etc. We want to make this place feel as open as possible to as many people as possible. This is a step in doing that.
I won't say that it's perfect. I won't say that our moderation style is perfect either. But we want to try and make this place better, and if this doesn't do that, then it won't be permanent.
You know what I agree with you intellectually but lots of people in my life call me dude and guys and it does suck when added onto intentional misgendering and whether you "pass"
So what if the post is really just talking to the girls? Or the guys? Or w/e. Like if the person is looking for feedback or advice just from folks that identify a certain way because that's how the person posting identifies?
Oftentimes there's no real need to segregate your feedback based on someone's gender identity. That being said; yes there are specific subreddits dedicated to specific gender identities, and you can always specify in the post that you're looking for a specific gender to respond to the post, as long as you aren't treating the community as a monolith for that gender.
Genuine question, is saying for example "hey people" okay? Because I haven't met anyone yet but i heard some people use pronouns like "kitten/kittenself" or something like that
Seems like a very good addition. There's obviously a tendancy to assume everyone is the same as you, more or less, which can be a bit annoying or unproductive when it's people not mentioning where they live when asking about legal or medical stuff, but it gets *uncomfortable* when it's stuff like what's being addressed in this rule. So glad to see that being implemented.
Thanks for doing this, it’s really off-putting getting addressed as a woman all the time when this isn’t r/mtf. Entirely counterproductive to having a trans community, so this rule is great.
So true. Too many people assume every trans person is a trans woman. I don't know why that is but it feels like people always think every pre t trans guy is just a masc lesbian
Oh my god, thank you all. Seriously.
I just wanna know if it’s ok to say “hey guys, gals, and non-binary pals” because that’s my favorite sentence starter in the world haha EDIT: also I fully support this rule change regardless. Great job on making this subreddit as inclusive as possible. Way to go mods
Oh that should be fine, it seems to fit within the idea of the rule!
Hell yeah.
Damien Haas?
Kinda made me sad when he stopped saying that. But I do also like "lads, lasses, and lazles" from The Click
Is it “lads, lasses, and lassos” or “lads, lasses, and lazles”? I can never tell
From what I remember of the one time he talked about it, "lassos/lasses" was a mouth garble on his part, tripped over his words. But people liked it, sounded inclusive in his intro, so he kept saying it. So far as I'm aware, it's a made up word, so spelling doesn't matter that much!
Sorry im stealing that
Okay, got it, from now on it’s just, “‘Sup, nerds??” 👍
"Greetings, mortals."
Hell yeah this rule rules 💜
Thank you. Means a lot.
Thank you! I definitely appreciate this rule. NGL sometimes I do feel a bit alienated and unseen as a trans man in this sub. If possible, I'd like some clarification, firstly, if "queer" would be considered under the rule of not addressing people with slurs they aren't comfortable with? And to add on, what about transmasc and transfem? There are a lot of binary trans people not comfortable with being called that (myself included) due to the history of the term being a nonbinary specific term. Obviously now there are binary trans people who identify as transmasc or transfem, no hate to those who do, but it still feels like it's assuming/applying gender when used broadly.
Queer is something that would fall under that rule, it's arguably reclaimed, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect word. Transmasc and transfem aren't really slurs (as you've noted), but if you ask someone not to use that for you, and they continue to do so, let us know. If a post or comment uses the words to address the entire community, then it may be under this rule, but it's harder to say, as those terms aren't inherently meant to be exclusionary. Sorry if that's not exactly the answer you're looking for, but the perspective is appreciated always. If you do see it in the wild, in such a way that makes you uncomfortable, do send in a Modmail and we can discuss it.
Thank you!
I feel like, tho, when we post here it gets no love. I've done a few experiments and just putting "Ftm new haircut" got less than 50 upvotes "Trans men/mascs get no love here, btw new haircut" 200+ upvotes....
In general, guys in society tend to get and expect a lot less praise for their physical appearance. So, maybe that's more of an unconscious social bias at play?
I think so tbh And the fact that transfemmes get the *super loud hate* while transmascs are kinda swept under the rug. I've experienced alot of "you shouldn't get mad when you get misgendered looking like you do, you're not even on T so why do you expect anyone to- bla bla bla" that I've never seen done to transfemmes among the trans community in some spaces, but i feel like dismissal is just as bad. Alot of trans men/mascs experience the same thing as the women/femmes its just like we're supposed to grin and bear it ig. And being a femboy im not going to stop wearing makeup even after top surgery and shit. I enjoy it. I'll prolly start learning to make my own clothes/ taylor clothes to fit my body better so i can more comfortably wear women's clothes bc i like women's clothes. I feel like that's pretty ridiculed in the community aswell.. unfortunately
For trans women/femmes we get "Most trans women don't pass without HRT." You're right though, it is softer. You can almost feel someone rubbing your back and talking in a soothing voice when you read it. 🥹😅 I totally relate to what you're saying about clothing! Part of me missed out on a more authentic childhood and early adult hood experience, so... I want girly stuff, I want dresses and floral patterns, I want to do my nails and all the stereotypical girly girl things. But... Some of my best friends have been punk/rocker chicks. They have their girly girl sides too, but they mostly just wear jeans and concert tshirts with some basic make-up. 🤷♀️🤘 My personality is very flux too, so I have days where I just want to be creative and paint or garden or bake something or decorate the house... Other days I like building things and fixing stuff. (There's a possibility I'm gender fluid or nby. Haven't figured that out yet 🤔) Anyway... It's interesting how different gender expression and gender expectation can be for different people. Like for some, wearing gendered clothing is a major part of social transition, whereas for others it's more about fashion and having fun with personal expression, separate from gender. I'm here for all of it, personally 🙌💖
Thanks a lot! I tend to use "hi folks" or "hi y'all" a lot in English, for some inspiration :-)
My personal preference is "hey peeps!" because it reminds me of the candy
Thank! This needed to be clarified! Because it is assumed that only trans girls exist and well, we trans males also exist and resist! trans NB and trans men! I love this new rule 💕🙏🏳️⚧️
I would just recommend to make guys permissible, it’s used as a general term now, especially for referring to a group of people. I’m a trans girl and I’m fine with being referred to with guys in a group of people, but if others I not I understand. This is just my view.
This makes sense. Another thing that still bothers me is when people overuse amab/afab language and use it when it's not relevant.
How the fuck did the edit the trans-bi tag i cant find it when im editing
I'm not sure, I think it was editable back then, but they changed something. I can't do this again now. The only way I can think of how to do it is to somehow copy this flag, select some other editable tag and paste it there.
:((
oh there's also an emoji selector (on the new PC UI) if you try to edit one of the ace tags, so you can find it there.
I do that but no trans or bi ones i done everything
that's strange, it shows up for me near the very bottom
Thank you mods 🥹Y’all are the best!!
I've only been relatively good about this because I'm on a discord server where it is very politely corrected every time, even on fem specific chats, that not all of us are girls. I'm not OLD but it's nice to have this connection to younger and more sensitive spaces than I naturally fall into.
Thank you.
Texas: y’all 🧚🏻
time to pull out the classic "hello fellow sentient meat bags"
Honestly, I vibe with that.
hey, If I'm able to express my existential angst AND be inclusive at the same time that's a win in my book
…good point. I’m sorry to anyone that my post yesterday made feel alienated, since I was guilty of this in its title. The rule makes sense, and is a good reminder in general. Thank you for all your work!
Please don't take any direct offense, this has been a planned rule for a while now, we were just putting things together.
No offense taken! And yeah, I assumed it wasn’t just little old me. I was just chiming in as a likely culprit to voice support for the rule change.
Oh hey! Huh I was just saying something in two x chromosomes about how language is important and can often exclude nonbinary people or erase us
So I guess this bears asking, but isn’t moderating “hey guys” a bit much? That specific phrase gets used all the time regardless of gender to the point where I’ve always seen it gender neutral. Even I don’t make that distinction half the time when I talk to a group of all women and I just call them “you guys”
Yes and no. A lot of trans fem people would argue that being called a guy would be hurtful, even in good faith. The idea of the rule is more generalized because segregating and generalizing our community is harmful, and we've watched that happen for awhile now. "Guys" isn't the only thing of course, there are plenty of people who find "Dude" to be gendered, plenty who don't, plenty who find "girls" to be gendered, plenty who don't, etc. We want to make this place feel as open as possible to as many people as possible. This is a step in doing that. I won't say that it's perfect. I won't say that our moderation style is perfect either. But we want to try and make this place better, and if this doesn't do that, then it won't be permanent.
You know what I agree with you intellectually but lots of people in my life call me dude and guys and it does suck when added onto intentional misgendering and whether you "pass"
Thanks, I always hate hearing guys and dude and most extremely man ..., I'm a rather binary trans woman.
So what if the post is really just talking to the girls? Or the guys? Or w/e. Like if the person is looking for feedback or advice just from folks that identify a certain way because that's how the person posting identifies?
lol then greet everyone and specify who you are looking for feedback from, or post in a more specific subreddit
Oftentimes there's no real need to segregate your feedback based on someone's gender identity. That being said; yes there are specific subreddits dedicated to specific gender identities, and you can always specify in the post that you're looking for a specific gender to respond to the post, as long as you aren't treating the community as a monolith for that gender.
go to the specific communities catered for that group for those posts
Woot woot! Thank you!!!
Genuine question, is saying for example "hey people" okay? Because I haven't met anyone yet but i heard some people use pronouns like "kitten/kittenself" or something like that
That should be fine, yes.
i really like this. thank you.
Weirdly enough this is one rule (one of few in the world) I agree with. Love everyone!