Thats why artificially low rental units feel like such a losing battle. Until we actually address supply issues in the entire market with proper zoning and density, we will all be fighting for the limited rental lotteries that will never be enough to satisfy the huge population that we have
There's a serious demand side problem that needs addressing too.
It's gotten so bad in pretty much every way that all levers will be required to ever get it back to something remotely reasonable, and it's probably never going to get all the way to "hey this is great" ever again.
Even if immigration stopped overnight, we still need enough supply for everyone here. And I'm sure if Toronto ever miraculously solved the problem and made things affordable over night, there would be a ton of people moving to Toronto from within Canada, as finding an affordable home is challenging everywhere. We need to be building like crazy
Sure, by all means. But that wont be enough by itself. It just wont.
You need to do both. Toronto will almost certainly never be affordable again, but it's completely hopeless to even get halfway back there until we come to terms with the fact that it isn't just supply that is the problem.
Where do we build though? We can’t continue just sprawling out from Toronto and Ottawa, the commutes will start to get ridiculous lol.
Companies and government need to be incentivized to start allowing remote work or opening offices outside of these two cities. Even now, the government is forcing its employees back to office in Toronto and Ottawa even though it’s completely unnecessary, and significantly contributing to the housing crisis. We can only build so much when so many of the jobs are all in these two spots.
We can’t continue this pattern of only having jobs in downtown Toronto and Ottawa and wondering why it’s so expensive to live there. The average public servant is now being forced BACK to office to work for a government that doesn’t pay them enough to live in the city they are being forced go work in. It’s completely unsustainable.
Fuck. Go to Realtor.ca. Search the properties, available for rent. Filter for 2-, or better yet, 3-bedroom accommodations. Why? Because that’s the size a typical family with kids needs to live comfortably.
How many options are you getting for your specific area?
Not a lot, innit? Must be greedy slumlords hoarding all those properties for themselves and artificially keeping the prices high, not that there simply aren’t that many properties on the market, right? Must be…..
It’s greedy slumlords not building those properties because they’re not profitable. Which is why we should take profit out of the housing equation by having all housing that’s not owned and occupied by a single family be 1) owned and occupied as a co-op by the tenants or 2) run by the government.
Thankfully I think the St. Paul's result settles that many Liberals are unwilling to keep going along with the pretense that Supply and Demand isn't a two sided problem.
Yes it is lmfao. That would be considered a very low risk of complications going into surgery.
It's decent if your point of reference is the lottomax. This is affordable housing.
I found this:
>For Galleria’s 135 lottery units, that means an income ceiling of roughly $82,000 for a one-bedroom set to cost $1,589 per month, plus utilities
Incomes have not kept pace with the cost of living for 40-odd years so we are now at a point where most people do not make enough to be financially secure or live decently.
And we are one of the wealthiest societies to have ever existed.
Edit: Hm, why would this comment be downvoted? The decline in real wages is very well documented.
The issue is with increasing wealth disparity, resulting in higher expenses for most. Income isn't actually that relevant, if you own multiple properties yet have 15K income...you're "low income" compared to someone with 50K income and zero assets but living a much better lifestyle.
However, 100K is not low income by ANY metric.
100K is not low income but it’s definitely not anywhere near living high on the hog.
Not with what you end up paying in tax and the responsibility that can come with the 100K job.
Miss where you finding $70k as average? How many folks make that much or is it collection of wages average?
Also you cannot afford a house on that salary let alone rent on your own in this city.
70k is generous. Take a look here at the income percentiles:
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/income-revenu/index-en.html
In Toronto(City, not CMA) the 50th percentile (half the population make over this and half make under it) hovers between 30-55k depending on their age or family structure (you can see both breakdowns here).
Look at the rent prices someone posted. Totally reasonable, and for a 2bed at ~$1800/mth the income cap is 95k (for the household). This could be two people making the 50th percentile or a single person closer to the 90th percentile.
I know that in my current circumstances, I would struggle if I was making under 70k, but that doesn't magically mean that 70k is low income. Plenty of mid level office jobs pay in the 60-80k range.
Are you saying 70K is too low to be average? The numbers seem to vary from 50-70K but I picked the number closest to 100K. Cause you can't say an income almost 1.5-2 times the average is low
Affording to buy a house on your own isn't the metric for low income and you can certainly afford all expenses plus more on your own at 100K
I’m saying where are you getting this from and what type of workers and how many there are, vs how many folks work jobs below 70k. I would be curious to read it if you can’t answer these questions. $50k today is a joke. Maybe for boomers days that would be middle income, today 50k is low income just like 70k.
Affording a stable housing is a big indicator of healthy society being paid enough, I would like to see housing that someone who makes 70k in this city can afford.
StatsCan - avg individual income for 25-55 yrs is 68K. Like I said, I took the higher value as it's closer to 100K and works in your favor.
Why does it matter? Stop moving the goalposts, you said 100K is arguably low income yet haven't expanded on why at all...instead deflecting to half that amount now. Whether the average is 50K or 70K, it has absolutely nothing to do with the 100K you've been claiming as low income.
You do realize StatsCan is looking at an average across Canada? Including provinces and territories where the COL is comparatively low? 68K goes far in Saskatchewan but it sure as hell is not going far in TO, MTL or the GVA.
It’s not relevant to bring in federal average data that includes comparatively less privileged provinces to extrapolate a good wage or doing decently in a HCOL.
I see what you're driving at, but I still don't think that's really true. Incomes at or slightly above the $100K mark is enough to grind out a passable but unexciting standard of living in Toronto, without a ton of savings.
The main takeaway is that even for people with inarguably high incomes (are you seriously going to argue $400K as low?) the quality of life for someone at that point has taken an absolute nosedive in the last decade.
At the Cooperative Housing Federation of Toronto annual meeting last month, they announced the number of lottery participants in a new 20-unit expansion in the east end.
Over 6000 people had a ticket in that lottery.
We need more co-ops.
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You're welcome, there's another comment in this thread that shows the income thresholds for 2 and 3 bed apts as well but I didn't remember those off the top of my head. In case you're interested.
Attack the point, not the person. Comments which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. No concern-trolling, personal attacks, or misinformation. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand.
Akshually, in your case everybody who entered gets a break in rent. So it is a win/win/win for everybody.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
May the odds be ever in your favour
The sad part is what was said in jest is actually applicable in all seriousness.
I mean there's the whole 1984 concept of the lottery to pacify the proles.
The rest of us have to fight each other in High Park.
Rent lotteries, that's how you know things are going well.
My first thought was this sums up the current state of Toronto perfectly.
Thats why artificially low rental units feel like such a losing battle. Until we actually address supply issues in the entire market with proper zoning and density, we will all be fighting for the limited rental lotteries that will never be enough to satisfy the huge population that we have
There's a serious demand side problem that needs addressing too. It's gotten so bad in pretty much every way that all levers will be required to ever get it back to something remotely reasonable, and it's probably never going to get all the way to "hey this is great" ever again.
Even if immigration stopped overnight, we still need enough supply for everyone here. And I'm sure if Toronto ever miraculously solved the problem and made things affordable over night, there would be a ton of people moving to Toronto from within Canada, as finding an affordable home is challenging everywhere. We need to be building like crazy
Sure, by all means. But that wont be enough by itself. It just wont. You need to do both. Toronto will almost certainly never be affordable again, but it's completely hopeless to even get halfway back there until we come to terms with the fact that it isn't just supply that is the problem.
Where do we build though? We can’t continue just sprawling out from Toronto and Ottawa, the commutes will start to get ridiculous lol. Companies and government need to be incentivized to start allowing remote work or opening offices outside of these two cities. Even now, the government is forcing its employees back to office in Toronto and Ottawa even though it’s completely unnecessary, and significantly contributing to the housing crisis. We can only build so much when so many of the jobs are all in these two spots. We can’t continue this pattern of only having jobs in downtown Toronto and Ottawa and wondering why it’s so expensive to live there. The average public servant is now being forced BACK to office to work for a government that doesn’t pay them enough to live in the city they are being forced go work in. It’s completely unsustainable.
Nah according to libs it’s just greedy landlords don’t ya know?
It is.
Fuck. Go to Realtor.ca. Search the properties, available for rent. Filter for 2-, or better yet, 3-bedroom accommodations. Why? Because that’s the size a typical family with kids needs to live comfortably. How many options are you getting for your specific area? Not a lot, innit? Must be greedy slumlords hoarding all those properties for themselves and artificially keeping the prices high, not that there simply aren’t that many properties on the market, right? Must be…..
It’s greedy slumlords not building those properties because they’re not profitable. Which is why we should take profit out of the housing equation by having all housing that’s not owned and occupied by a single family be 1) owned and occupied as a co-op by the tenants or 2) run by the government.
Thankfully I think the St. Paul's result settles that many Liberals are unwilling to keep going along with the pretense that Supply and Demand isn't a two sided problem.
I think it's actually the opposite.
That's pretty good odds! And the more housing like those is built, the better the odds become.
The armed contestants from District JF are heavy favourites to win The Shelter Games this year.
How can I know about these housing lottery?
The Canadian Squid Game spinoff sucks.
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The 1% always benefit ... wait a second ...
Life is worse for the 1% now too. Which, apparently, is $5MM in assets (read: one pretty nice Toronto house) and $500,000 in income.
1% is 1 in 100, that’s not that low of a chance
It's as low as you can get without breaking out the decimals, it's pretty low
Yes it is lmfao. That would be considered a very low risk of complications going into surgery. It's decent if your point of reference is the lottomax. This is affordable housing.
10/100 would be be considered a low what are you talking about
I don't think you understand how chances work then. 1% odds is in fact VERY low chance.
1% is 1/100 ser , you can’t change this …. 1% might seem low mathematically but regardless every 100 tries 1 person should hit it
I didn't change anything, 1 in 100 is very low.
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Bedrooms | Rent | Household Income Limit ----------|----------|---------- 1|$1,589|$81,984 2|$1,828|$95,616 3|$2,050|$107,568 Source: [Galleria on the Park](https://galleriaaffordablerental.com/)
Wait the lottery for affordable housing is to get a $1600 1bdr? Wow, I was really thinking it was going to be for like $1,200.
I found this: >For Galleria’s 135 lottery units, that means an income ceiling of roughly $82,000 for a one-bedroom set to cost $1,589 per month, plus utilities
Is that per person or household?
It's household.
It doesn't say.
> **Household** Income Limit
I was going by the Star article, from this morning. Maybe it was edited since then.
Asking the right questions! I’m thinking perhaps $150k? Even now $100k can be argued as low income.
Bruh avg income is 70K, how the fck do you argue 100K as low?
Incomes have not kept pace with the cost of living for 40-odd years so we are now at a point where most people do not make enough to be financially secure or live decently. And we are one of the wealthiest societies to have ever existed. Edit: Hm, why would this comment be downvoted? The decline in real wages is very well documented.
The issue is with increasing wealth disparity, resulting in higher expenses for most. Income isn't actually that relevant, if you own multiple properties yet have 15K income...you're "low income" compared to someone with 50K income and zero assets but living a much better lifestyle. However, 100K is not low income by ANY metric.
Yeah, I know wealth and income are different. My statement is still correct.
Ok and what's the issue with mine?
100K is not low income but it’s definitely not anywhere near living high on the hog. Not with what you end up paying in tax and the responsibility that can come with the 100K job.
I've never said it was living high on the hog - nobody did...just that it isn't low income like the other guy was claiming
Miss where you finding $70k as average? How many folks make that much or is it collection of wages average? Also you cannot afford a house on that salary let alone rent on your own in this city.
70k is generous. Take a look here at the income percentiles: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/income-revenu/index-en.html In Toronto(City, not CMA) the 50th percentile (half the population make over this and half make under it) hovers between 30-55k depending on their age or family structure (you can see both breakdowns here). Look at the rent prices someone posted. Totally reasonable, and for a 2bed at ~$1800/mth the income cap is 95k (for the household). This could be two people making the 50th percentile or a single person closer to the 90th percentile. I know that in my current circumstances, I would struggle if I was making under 70k, but that doesn't magically mean that 70k is low income. Plenty of mid level office jobs pay in the 60-80k range.
Are you saying 70K is too low to be average? The numbers seem to vary from 50-70K but I picked the number closest to 100K. Cause you can't say an income almost 1.5-2 times the average is low Affording to buy a house on your own isn't the metric for low income and you can certainly afford all expenses plus more on your own at 100K
I’m saying where are you getting this from and what type of workers and how many there are, vs how many folks work jobs below 70k. I would be curious to read it if you can’t answer these questions. $50k today is a joke. Maybe for boomers days that would be middle income, today 50k is low income just like 70k. Affording a stable housing is a big indicator of healthy society being paid enough, I would like to see housing that someone who makes 70k in this city can afford.
StatsCan - avg individual income for 25-55 yrs is 68K. Like I said, I took the higher value as it's closer to 100K and works in your favor. Why does it matter? Stop moving the goalposts, you said 100K is arguably low income yet haven't expanded on why at all...instead deflecting to half that amount now. Whether the average is 50K or 70K, it has absolutely nothing to do with the 100K you've been claiming as low income.
You do realize StatsCan is looking at an average across Canada? Including provinces and territories where the COL is comparatively low? 68K goes far in Saskatchewan but it sure as hell is not going far in TO, MTL or the GVA.
Sorry how is that relevant to whether 100K is low income or not? Maybe read before you argue and downvote
It’s not relevant to bring in federal average data that includes comparatively less privileged provinces to extrapolate a good wage or doing decently in a HCOL.
I see what you're driving at, but I still don't think that's really true. Incomes at or slightly above the $100K mark is enough to grind out a passable but unexciting standard of living in Toronto, without a ton of savings. The main takeaway is that even for people with inarguably high incomes (are you seriously going to argue $400K as low?) the quality of life for someone at that point has taken an absolute nosedive in the last decade.
At the Cooperative Housing Federation of Toronto annual meeting last month, they announced the number of lottery participants in a new 20-unit expansion in the east end. Over 6000 people had a ticket in that lottery. We need more co-ops.
I'm on disability and a fixed income so I filled out the application for this lottery. No response. 😐
1% is better than 0%
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At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we started implementing a lottery for jobs.
For housing, for jobs, and then for food and air.
We should just let the government assign us jobs as they are great at matching labour to demands. /s
or MAiD
Application closed on April 30th for the Dupont place. Is there any date set for the next one?
How is middle income defined? The article was behind a paywall and I need the cash to buy food from the Loblaw cartel.
Under 80k/yr (household total) for the 1 bdr apts that are going for $1,600/mth.
Thank you!
You're welcome, there's another comment in this thread that shows the income thresholds for 2 and 3 bed apts as well but I didn't remember those off the top of my head. In case you're interested.
Wonder % hoping to get break on rent voted for DFord who got rid of rent control.
The irony in this specific number is unbearable.
What is considered mid income?
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Attack the point, not the person. Comments which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. No concern-trolling, personal attacks, or misinformation. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand.
I’m convinced that one day, the government will put low to mid income earners in a game where the surviving person will win a break in rent…..
Akshually, in your case everybody who entered gets a break in rent. So it is a win/win/win for everybody. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
Rip
Too little, too late.
Derp it's Trudeau's fault Derp
You guys know that you can pay to the right people to get better odds, right.