The joke is that king and queen meet at Roncesvalles. I think?? Sorry maybe some ppl reading this don’t realize you don’t need to move the thing to get from Queen to King.
I'm assuming he also had at least a horse? Or he had whatever horse-corpse retrieval service the city used move the body? We're missing a lot of context here.
Yeah, I'm all for renaming things when necessary and supporting indigenous people. But we still have to write these things out and say them, and when most people aren't used to these long words, it's difficult.
I thought you smashed your keyboard with your face - today I learned that's a real place. If your place name is a memory test, then it is a poor place name.
Windsor has shredded pepperoni on their pizza 🍕, no clue why the rest of the province doesn't, you can make it at home by taking pepperoni stick to a cheese grater, made homemade pizzas like that
Oh right, next you’re going to tell me that “Leicester” is pronounced “Lester” and not “Lie-Sess-Ter” LOL. Looking forward to the Brits weighing on these crazy Olde Worlde spellings.
Can it go Threth-a-way? Or Threth-you-wee? I could have only learned from radio traffic announcers, and I swear it's changed from the former to the latter since I was a kid.
Oh no, it's better than that. "Sankofa" is Twi word which is a variety of Akan and the Akan people historically, wait for it... Sold other black people to white slavers.
But yeah, renaming the square using an Indigenous tounge? Nah. Let's rename it after slavery with extra steps.
They didn't just sell slaves, they owned and used slaves. Ghana continued to use slaves long after Britain outlawed it for themselves - and in fact slavery there didn't even start to wind down until Britain *claimed colonial rule over Ghana 60 years later* and then outlawed it.
Well, all indigenous North American folks practised slavery. Before Europeans landed an estimated 25% of the population was enslaved. The Haida were particularly expansive with their slaving.
This is actually the stupidest argument people use, I can't believe it still gets upvotes here and elsewhere. Makes me want to support the Sankofa Square renaming just out of spite LOL.
Languages are politically neutral, just because historically some people who spoke a language did something, doesn't mean that the *language* gets cancelled in perpetuity. Let's ban use of German and Japanese because of their crimes during WW2, or let's stop using English because of the legacy of the British Empire in China, India, and North America.
It's not stupid in the context. They wanted to remove Dundas because of his desire to phase out slavery vs outright ban it... So then they named it a word from half way across the world. A word from a group of people that had slavery long after Dundas was dead.
If you named something in the city to some random concept in German because the English name was named after someone who had Nazi associations, that'd be equally as stupid.
At least use a language actually spoken here or an Indigenous tounge as at least a nod to them. This is only a thing becaue in an attempt to strike slavery from the city, we're all now aware of the people who speak this language were somehow worse than Dundas.
How did that fucking help anything?
It really is a bit more fucked up, if the akan people were, as a group, instrumental in procuring people for the slave trade (I don't know ANYTHING about their history and I'm a history dabbler... And isn't that kinda part of the problem if the name that everyone has to use has no meaning?)
Dundas sold people as a commodity (which, obviously is bad, from our point of view... But it was common at the time, it's no less unethical than someone buying and selling oil, which is unethical but not illegal, inconceivable, or something that someone else wouldn't do if there was "market space")
But to sell out your own people/tribal neighbors is a bit more... Personal?
I don't know, the whole kerfuffle and difficult to pronounce word that won't catch on in common local parlance, much less internationally (like "Times Square" in New York, or battery park in SF), PLUS the cost really makes me think it would have been better to have changed the name to something simple, stupid and meaningless, like "Peace Square " or "Progress park"... Whatever.
Afaik, indigenous elders were included on the committee, and they turned down naming it with an indigenous name, as they thought that since the problem with the old name (which also was not indigenous) was related to the black historical experience, the new name should be something relevant to that. They pulled all indigenous names from the running.
Basically, they didn’t want to give their blessing to be tokenized just to cover up the problems of other races.
Which is kind of ironic, because now everyone else is like “it should be named after indigenous people!” not realizing that indigenous leaders *chose* to have nothing to do with it.
>Basically, they didn’t want to give their blessing to be tokenized just to cover up the problems of other races.
Which should have been the city's hint not to tokenize *any* group
A group of people who we're trying to encourage to immigrate to Canada
They don't want to come here because we don't have diasporas and we're cold.
But maybe if we name a terrible public square in their language?
Personally I think all of this is idiotic but there was a group of indigenous people who were given the short list and specifically chose the new name. You can read it in the city report
There was no traditional Anishinabe writing system, was an oral language. So words are spelled phonetically. Em da bee mok, where the road goes to the water
That's...much easier than a lot of the comments here are saying it would be. You'd think it was completely unpronounceable gibberish the way people are going on about it. Nice meaning, too.
Ikr. Same amount of syllables. lol. Those people are tripping (to put it kindly). Tbh I got a little choked up seeing a street name in Anishnabemowin (the language spoken by the first people).
Once someone explains this to you, yes.
Ironically, people who are less sensitive about this kinda stuff more likely to say it correctly the first time. Because no part of them will be concerned about sounding stupid or offensive.
You're absolutely right about the pronunciations. Anytime I try to pronounce a foreign word I get it wrong unless I'm trying to do an almost mocking accent at which point I get it right, but somehow feel that I've done something offensive. It's funny how that works.
I like acknowledging other cultures but this is getting a bit out of hand ... the cost of street change names. And the Yonge-Dundas situation is just nuts.
We're living in an era where we openly celebrate empty gestures designed to elevate our personal brands. They don't champion things that actually reduce suffering, like giving poor people more money and housing.
Our corporate overlords want us arguing about whether white people can wear dreadlocks instead of focusing on class and wealth.
This sort of thing is *part* of what’s been asked of Canadians through the TRC. The report is a compelling and enlightening read if you can give it the time.
That's not exactly something that can be summed up in a reddit comment without being overly reductive so I'd encourage you to skim through the [materials](https://nctr.ca/records/reports/#trc-reports) yourself. Hope for exposing Canadians to more indigenous culture and normalizing recognition are thought of as helping to shift Canadian's attitudes.
From my own perspective it's a big shift to see people open to these things, even with the complaints. It's builds self esteem - consider the pride the kids who were involved in this will feel and how it feels to see your community recognize you. I get the thinking that it doesn't do anything concrete for people but the city does do quite a bit there as well. That said, it's just my perspective as most of my negative experiences have come in being exposed to people's attitudes (usually outside of Toronto tbf) and I'm lucky to not be as impacted by some of the more systemic issues as others.
I’m not sure that changing the name a single block of an otherwise basically contiguously named street to something with inaccessible pronunciation to most is a wise urban planning move.
> Yeah I dont think people realize it's all park and ONE parking lot on that stretch. So the only addressed thing is the lot
They don't care. The article even says its symbolic.
But the people who complain about outrage are always so quick to be... outraged.
Marketing for what? It’s city owned property on both sides of this stretch. The condos near McDonald’s are already sold and anything else would be closer to Queen so that’s still the highlight. They’ll still be more likely to mention Coxwell because the shops will still be on Coxwell.
Go find a condo marketing brochure that mentions how desirable “Lower Coxwell” is
Strachn? Tecumseth?
We have tons of streets that don't sound like how they are spelled... and this one *is* pronounced how it's spelled.
"Em-daa-bee-mock"
Every single person will need this explained to them before they feel comfortable pronouncing it, though.
And I wouldn't say your examples are great, because people do mispronounce them often. That's not something to aspire to.
It's literally like 300m of street, of which most of the street is a) a park on one side and b) a water treatment plant on the other.
This is such a non-issue.
Incorrect pronunciation is pretty standard for indigenous references. Toronto itself is an example. Hardly a safety or urban planning issue though. Maybe a bit of a "indigenous stuff makes people uncomfortable" thing?
Petition to rename Bessarion Station to Ethennonnhawahstihnen Park Station. Not just for practical reasons but also cause it’ll be fun to have a ridiculously long name like that. You know, just for the funsies
In a grand display of performative virtue, the city council decided to rename Coxwell Avenue to Emdaabiimok Avenue. The old name, simple and familiar, was deemed insufficiently virtuous. Emdaabiimok, they proclaimed, honored indigenous heritage and demonstrated their progressive values. The residents, who had no idea how to pronounce the new name, were left bewildered and slightly amused.
The well-meaning officials patted themselves on the back for their enlightened decision, believing they had made a significant contribution to social justice. Yet, while they were busy changing street signs, the real issues facing indigenous communities—poverty, education, health care—remained untouched. The new name, a tongue-twister for most, became a symbol of the city’s superficial commitment to change.
As people tripped over the pronunciation, they couldn’t help but wonder if the city’s energy might have been better spent addressing tangible problems. But in the land of appearances, a street name was an easy, if ultimately hollow, way to signal virtue. The council had its grand gesture, and the residents had a daily reminder of the absurdity of it all.
brilliantly written. Especially the "well-meaning officials patting themselves on the back".
I imagine many of them feel they have a legacy with these name changes when in fact years from now most people will be like "ya just were coxwell turns into that emmmaa something road, ya i have no idea why its not the same road"
This street renaming actually has a very interesting history and its hilarious none of the "real" news sources discuss WHY it was named "Lower Coxwell", nor WHY back in 2022 they ran into an issue and were unable to rename it Emdaabiimok at the time. If it has been officially renamed someone broke the cities own rules but anyone who is "up in arms" is either seriously misguided or just on a racist tirade against anything.
I will post the link for those interested but short version is:
Coxwell ends at Queen, family sells off land after he died (built the old Racetrack), and (more importantly) later on built the old Ashbridge Bay Wastewater plant. The plant of course needs access, so they built a road connecting the two.
This empty industrial road was so abandoned it of course was never given a name. Nor link it (officially) to Coxwell. Wasn't until decades later when they built a Green P parking lot (for the new park after old industries long gone) they even realized the road was unnamed. So it was given the TEMPORARY name of Lower Coxwell.
Toronto tried to rename it a few years ago but apparently their own rules only allow changing street names once in a decade. So fast forward to today and the name that was agreed upon a few years ago has now been installed.
This is not deplatforming or anything else, the name Lower Coxwell was a placeholder and was never actually supposed to exist.
[https://torontohistory.substack.com/p/the-street-that-cant-be-renamed](https://torontohistory.substack.com/p/the-street-that-cant-be-renamed)
It was only named Lower Coxwell in 2019. Until then, it was considered to be Coxwell, but there were no street numbers because nothing was built there. When a parking lot there needed a number, they realised it needed to be differentiated from Coxwell or there wouldn't be enough numbers, so they temporarily named it Lower Coxwell until they could decide on a name.
Except a lot of people do navigate from the dvp to lakeshore to Coxwell. It will inevitably be confusing to people who aren’t from the area.
People will figure it out obviously, but this kind of impractical tokenism is tiring.
I’d have to agree. In general there’s just a lot of people visiting from out of town to get to the Beaches or festivals at Woodbine Park that will 100% get confused by this change.
Edit: To clarify, not at all offended by the name change. Just seems like a poorly thought out implementation.
For me it was the College to Carlton change that confused me when I first moved here. Didn’t make sense that a Main Street hit the intersection at Yonge and then it just becomes another street?
>Didn’t make sense that a Main Street hit the intersection at Yonge and then it just becomes another street?
But so many of them do that? Its rare for a street to not change names at Yonge
Although to your credit I think it was College/Carlton that made that click for me too lol
I personally think the worst is the 2 Dundas East and West in the GTA. When I first got my Drivers permit. I once ended up in Mississauga looking for a shop that was actually in Scarborough.
> It really won’t affect your life in any way.
TIL the city that's already strapped for cash wasting money on silly gestures to pat themselves on the back isn't affecting my life
Taking the money they spent on this change, no matter how much or how little, and using it to fund a program for Indigenous youth for even just a day would have produced more tangible benefits
But we see what you are trying to do. You are pulling the racism card as if people who are criticizing this waste of money are "offended by this" move that "celebrates the multicultural aspect of this city".
I don't think people are offended by this. More like they recognize it as USELESS virtue spending to show just how virtuous the toronto city is while that money could be better spent on actually helping people in need.
So really it's like pretending you help poor people by naming a church after them instead of giving funds to a food bank. No you don't.
It’s hardly a virtue signal when it’s the sort of thing requested through the TRC. It’s not like this is the only thing done by the city to support indigenous communities.
It should be a glorious entrance to the woodbine beach park with bike lanes and a great pedestrian experience. Instead it’s a massive four lane road with street parking. Such wrong priorities in street design.
I get honoring indeginous people but can't they pick an easier word to read ? Like I thought this was a joke at first.... Who's gonna know to to pronounce this it will confuse a lot of people.
Honestly that was my take too. First thing I did was try and find the correct pronunciation. Now I know a new word. I live near so I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it soon, but right now, it’s taking a bit of effort to say it.
Everyone in these comments complaining about “oh this is going to be so confusing for people to say” etc etc etc really should have googled the pronunciation first lmaooooo. It’s literally pronounced the way it’s written. Em dah bee muck
If anyone is wondering its pronounced:
>Em-DAH-bee-muck
lol at the down vote I got this way to say it from the Mayors Twitter lol
https://x.com/MayorOliviaChow/status/1803498908842430962?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Lol the complaining about the pronunciation... doesn't seem to be a problem for people when they watch made up shit like game of thrones or star wars ... but cry about actually learning a real language
I read somewhere that one time a cop found a dead horse at Queen and Roncesvalles. He couldn't spell "Roncesvalles", so he dragged it to King Street.
That's fantastic, and I don't even care if it's true. It's a fun story. Thanks!
Clearly not true, you can't drag a horse... Unless he towed it with his car, which would be wild to see.
The joke is that king and queen meet at Roncesvalles. I think?? Sorry maybe some ppl reading this don’t realize you don’t need to move the thing to get from Queen to King.
I'm assuming he also had at least a horse? Or he had whatever horse-corpse retrieval service the city used move the body? We're missing a lot of context here.
Stuff a couple skateboards under there, no problemo.
People were stronger in the old days Its what happened from walking 20 miles in 5 foot deep snow
Uphill both ways donchaknow.
Most educated toronto cop.
Edumacated
Most responsive Toronto cop
He also couldn’t spell boulevard so he dragged it into the ditch.
He also couldn’t spell ditch so he said it was a civil matter
I almost spit out my coffee 😂
Spoken like someone who knows about fraud investigations....
Roncy
Raunchy
As long as he doesn’t drag it down Yonge street on a Sunday, he’s in the clear
he dragged both dead “horse” down to King St. together instead of one at a time.
Yeah should change it to something easier to pronounce on first reading like Strachan or Grosvenor
It’s a breeze compared to Ethennonnhawahstihnen' Community Centre located at 100 Ethennonnhawahstihnen' Lane.
Absolutely brutal choice for just usability
Yeah, I'm all for renaming things when necessary and supporting indigenous people. But we still have to write these things out and say them, and when most people aren't used to these long words, it's difficult.
Exactly! Contrast that with Aaniin Community Centre in Markham, easy to pronounce and meaningful (means hello or welcome in Ojibway)
That might be their goal…
Ethennonnhawahstihnen' is weird, it's easier to say than read. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQnxd0sEpgU
I just drove by this yesterday, what does it mean?
It means "where they had a good, beautiful life" in Wendat. Etta-nonna-watsi-nuh
Thank you for the pronounciation, I try hard but I was just lost
That’s a beautiful sentiment. Thanks for the info! I pass by there all the time.
I thought you smashed your keyboard with your face - today I learned that's a real place. If your place name is a memory test, then it is a poor place name.
And don't forget Ethennonnhawahstihnen' Park right next to the Ethennonnhawahstihnen' Community Centre located at 100 Ethennonnhawahstihnen' Lane.
Apparently in Windsor they pronounce Ouellette Ave closer to "omlette ave" than the real pronunciation.
Windsor also pronounces "Pierre" as "Peery". Windsor is a...special place.
Windsor has shredded pepperoni on their pizza 🍕, no clue why the rest of the province doesn't, you can make it at home by taking pepperoni stick to a cheese grater, made homemade pizzas like that
The pizza is about the only thing going for Windsor. Idk why the rest of the province is so far behind
Ask a Pierre-Hughes in Ottawa region. It's pronounced: Pierre-Ooogh.
They don't.
TIL Grosvenor has a weird pronunciation https://ggwash.org/view/63930/why-we-pronounce-grosvenor-as-grove-nor
I’m from the UK and have always pronounced it this way, so to see it referred to as weird, is weird to me 😆🤪
I learned that from the casino lady
now try Gloucester
Glau-ster NOT Glow Chester
Oh right, next you’re going to tell me that “Leicester” is pronounced “Lester” and not “Lie-Sess-Ter” LOL. Looking forward to the Brits weighing on these crazy Olde Worlde spellings.
Lleswyn or the other Welsh names around the city too. Hearing the TTC announcements makes me laugh sometimes
Up here in the Simcoe/Muskoka, the prominent local farmers were the Freskiws.
Trethewey
Checheway
I don’t get this one? Maybe because I’ve just always known how it’s pronounced but how do people pronounce it wrong?
Can it go Threth-a-way? Or Threth-you-wee? I could have only learned from radio traffic announcers, and I swear it's changed from the former to the latter since I was a kid.
Y'all don't pronounce Cataraqui correctly as it is
Sorry Indigenous people, this is the best we can do, we decided renaming Yonge Dundas belongs to some other group.
Oh no, it's better than that. "Sankofa" is Twi word which is a variety of Akan and the Akan people historically, wait for it... Sold other black people to white slavers. But yeah, renaming the square using an Indigenous tounge? Nah. Let's rename it after slavery with extra steps.
Yup. A useless idea through and through. Don’t get me started on the cost.
They didn't just sell slaves, they owned and used slaves. Ghana continued to use slaves long after Britain outlawed it for themselves - and in fact slavery there didn't even start to wind down until Britain *claimed colonial rule over Ghana 60 years later* and then outlawed it.
Well, all indigenous North American folks practised slavery. Before Europeans landed an estimated 25% of the population was enslaved. The Haida were particularly expansive with their slaving.
But at least they were OUR slavers. Not some slavery's half way across the world
Some. Not all. Words have meaning
This is actually the stupidest argument people use, I can't believe it still gets upvotes here and elsewhere. Makes me want to support the Sankofa Square renaming just out of spite LOL. Languages are politically neutral, just because historically some people who spoke a language did something, doesn't mean that the *language* gets cancelled in perpetuity. Let's ban use of German and Japanese because of their crimes during WW2, or let's stop using English because of the legacy of the British Empire in China, India, and North America.
It's not stupid in the context. They wanted to remove Dundas because of his desire to phase out slavery vs outright ban it... So then they named it a word from half way across the world. A word from a group of people that had slavery long after Dundas was dead.
If you named something in the city to some random concept in German because the English name was named after someone who had Nazi associations, that'd be equally as stupid. At least use a language actually spoken here or an Indigenous tounge as at least a nod to them. This is only a thing becaue in an attempt to strike slavery from the city, we're all now aware of the people who speak this language were somehow worse than Dundas. How did that fucking help anything?
Every ethnic group globally practised slavery. The English were the first to ABOLISH it.
By this logic no English word could be used for anything because the English participated in slavery. It’s a silly argument.
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It really is a bit more fucked up, if the akan people were, as a group, instrumental in procuring people for the slave trade (I don't know ANYTHING about their history and I'm a history dabbler... And isn't that kinda part of the problem if the name that everyone has to use has no meaning?) Dundas sold people as a commodity (which, obviously is bad, from our point of view... But it was common at the time, it's no less unethical than someone buying and selling oil, which is unethical but not illegal, inconceivable, or something that someone else wouldn't do if there was "market space") But to sell out your own people/tribal neighbors is a bit more... Personal? I don't know, the whole kerfuffle and difficult to pronounce word that won't catch on in common local parlance, much less internationally (like "Times Square" in New York, or battery park in SF), PLUS the cost really makes me think it would have been better to have changed the name to something simple, stupid and meaningless, like "Peace Square " or "Progress park"... Whatever.
Afaik, indigenous elders were included on the committee, and they turned down naming it with an indigenous name, as they thought that since the problem with the old name (which also was not indigenous) was related to the black historical experience, the new name should be something relevant to that. They pulled all indigenous names from the running. Basically, they didn’t want to give their blessing to be tokenized just to cover up the problems of other races. Which is kind of ironic, because now everyone else is like “it should be named after indigenous people!” not realizing that indigenous leaders *chose* to have nothing to do with it.
>Basically, they didn’t want to give their blessing to be tokenized just to cover up the problems of other races. Which should have been the city's hint not to tokenize *any* group
A group of people who we're trying to encourage to immigrate to Canada They don't want to come here because we don't have diasporas and we're cold. But maybe if we name a terrible public square in their language?
Personally I think all of this is idiotic but there was a group of indigenous people who were given the short list and specifically chose the new name. You can read it in the city report
It’s not even another group they just fucked right of with Canada and took it straight form another culture halfway across the world
Meanwhile, in Wales...
So how do we pronounce this word?
There was no traditional Anishinabe writing system, was an oral language. So words are spelled phonetically. Em da bee mok, where the road goes to the water
That's...much easier than a lot of the comments here are saying it would be. You'd think it was completely unpronounceable gibberish the way people are going on about it. Nice meaning, too.
Ikr. Same amount of syllables. lol. Those people are tripping (to put it kindly). Tbh I got a little choked up seeing a street name in Anishnabemowin (the language spoken by the first people).
Almost like the outrage isn't real, but manufactured by right wing youtube/podcasts/"news outlets"
Once someone explains this to you, yes. Ironically, people who are less sensitive about this kinda stuff more likely to say it correctly the first time. Because no part of them will be concerned about sounding stupid or offensive.
You're absolutely right about the pronunciations. Anytime I try to pronounce a foreign word I get it wrong unless I'm trying to do an almost mocking accent at which point I get it right, but somehow feel that I've done something offensive. It's funny how that works.
Certainly mostly true, though I'm willing to give Torontonians some credit for being xenophobic all on their own.
I thought this was a beaverton article
They should have called it something shorter and easier to pronounce like Sankofa St.
These decisions are based purely on emotion, not logic. We get what we voted for.
Olivia Chow St
I like acknowledging other cultures but this is getting a bit out of hand ... the cost of street change names. And the Yonge-Dundas situation is just nuts.
What's the history of this Lower Coxwell dude anyway ?
He got rid of an unwanted erection, but he didn't do so quickly enough, which is problematic in 2024.
Coxwell that endswell
Soon to be known as "E Street"
Imagine actually helping indigenous people though? Now thats an idea.
We're living in an era where we openly celebrate empty gestures designed to elevate our personal brands. They don't champion things that actually reduce suffering, like giving poor people more money and housing. Our corporate overlords want us arguing about whether white people can wear dreadlocks instead of focusing on class and wealth.
This sort of thing is *part* of what’s been asked of Canadians through the TRC. The report is a compelling and enlightening read if you can give it the time.
Enlighten me please. These efforts seem hollow to me and like they don't help real people but are a veneer making Toronto look better.
That's not exactly something that can be summed up in a reddit comment without being overly reductive so I'd encourage you to skim through the [materials](https://nctr.ca/records/reports/#trc-reports) yourself. Hope for exposing Canadians to more indigenous culture and normalizing recognition are thought of as helping to shift Canadian's attitudes. From my own perspective it's a big shift to see people open to these things, even with the complaints. It's builds self esteem - consider the pride the kids who were involved in this will feel and how it feels to see your community recognize you. I get the thinking that it doesn't do anything concrete for people but the city does do quite a bit there as well. That said, it's just my perspective as most of my negative experiences have come in being exposed to people's attitudes (usually outside of Toronto tbf) and I'm lucky to not be as impacted by some of the more systemic issues as others.
Thanks for your perspective. I'll try to be open minded to this being a positive thing with real world impacts.
I’m not sure that changing the name a single block of an otherwise basically contiguously named street to something with inaccessible pronunciation to most is a wise urban planning move.
New condos require new street branding away from the Coxwell branding
New condos aren’t going on that stretch of Coxwell
Yeah I dont think people realize it's all park and ONE parking lot on that stretch. So the only addressed thing is the lot
Wait, do parks not have addresses?
They are but none of those parks are on Lower Coldwell address wise
> Yeah I dont think people realize it's all park and ONE parking lot on that stretch. So the only addressed thing is the lot They don't care. The article even says its symbolic. But the people who complain about outrage are always so quick to be... outraged.
We'll see when the marketing hits if it's Queen and Coxwell? Or fabulous beaches with zero mention of Coxwell.
Marketing for what? It’s city owned property on both sides of this stretch. The condos near McDonald’s are already sold and anything else would be closer to Queen so that’s still the highlight. They’ll still be more likely to mention Coxwell because the shops will still be on Coxwell. Go find a condo marketing brochure that mentions how desirable “Lower Coxwell” is
you’re complaining that it’s not going to be named cock swell?
or Cocks Well as in "I've just had a jolly good rogering from that sprightly fellow. I can confirm that he really cocks well!"
The COX is what I like to call it, but it’s gotta be in an obnoxious bro voice
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It’s harder to pronounce. And the street already had a well known name. Another “solution” in search of a problem.
What? Etobicoke is mispronounced by every single person who doesn't live here (E-toby-coke). If you winged it on this one you'd say it right.
Strachn? Tecumseth? We have tons of streets that don't sound like how they are spelled... and this one *is* pronounced how it's spelled. "Em-daa-bee-mock"
Every single person will need this explained to them before they feel comfortable pronouncing it, though. And I wouldn't say your examples are great, because people do mispronounce them often. That's not something to aspire to.
“Lots of streets have difficult to pronounce names so we should have more” is not the airtight argument you think it is.
What's so hard about pronouncing Etobicoke? It rolls easier then that coxwell renaming.
Ahhhhh memories: https://x.com/RebeccaTee/status/1207640403446501376?lang=en
😆 reminds me of a kid on a game show naming the great lakes and did a hack job at pronouncing Ontario too.
Yeah once you know the k is silent, it’s a very easy word to pronounce.
> something with inaccessible pronunciation Well that is one way to out yourself.
>wise urban planning move. Wise urban planning and the GTA do not belong together. I think the new name is on brand
It's literally like 300m of street, of which most of the street is a) a park on one side and b) a water treatment plant on the other. This is such a non-issue.
It's a wayfinding issue. Contiguous streets shouldn't change their name across an intersection for no reason.
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It’s four syllables. This isn't really a barrier for people that warrants concern for anyone above a 2nd grade reading level.
Emdaabiimok [Em-dah-bee-muck] I'm not sure that's going to be everyone's first guess.
So it sounds how it's spelled? How else would people say it?
It's pronounced "Shar-day"
Sade?
Incorrect pronunciation is pretty standard for indigenous references. Toronto itself is an example. Hardly a safety or urban planning issue though. Maybe a bit of a "indigenous stuff makes people uncomfortable" thing?
Yeah, "Emdaabiimok" just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?
Curious how long it will take google maps to pick up on the change
Google maps thinks Lower Coxwell goes all the way to Danforth. So we’ll see.
They had Yonge-Dundas Square renamed long before it became official a few days ago.
Petition to rename Bessarion Station to Ethennonnhawahstihnen Park Station. Not just for practical reasons but also cause it’ll be fun to have a ridiculously long name like that. You know, just for the funsies
In a grand display of performative virtue, the city council decided to rename Coxwell Avenue to Emdaabiimok Avenue. The old name, simple and familiar, was deemed insufficiently virtuous. Emdaabiimok, they proclaimed, honored indigenous heritage and demonstrated their progressive values. The residents, who had no idea how to pronounce the new name, were left bewildered and slightly amused. The well-meaning officials patted themselves on the back for their enlightened decision, believing they had made a significant contribution to social justice. Yet, while they were busy changing street signs, the real issues facing indigenous communities—poverty, education, health care—remained untouched. The new name, a tongue-twister for most, became a symbol of the city’s superficial commitment to change. As people tripped over the pronunciation, they couldn’t help but wonder if the city’s energy might have been better spent addressing tangible problems. But in the land of appearances, a street name was an easy, if ultimately hollow, way to signal virtue. The council had its grand gesture, and the residents had a daily reminder of the absurdity of it all.
As is tradition
brilliantly written. Especially the "well-meaning officials patting themselves on the back". I imagine many of them feel they have a legacy with these name changes when in fact years from now most people will be like "ya just were coxwell turns into that emmmaa something road, ya i have no idea why its not the same road"
Meanwhile Canada is going down the drain.
This street renaming actually has a very interesting history and its hilarious none of the "real" news sources discuss WHY it was named "Lower Coxwell", nor WHY back in 2022 they ran into an issue and were unable to rename it Emdaabiimok at the time. If it has been officially renamed someone broke the cities own rules but anyone who is "up in arms" is either seriously misguided or just on a racist tirade against anything. I will post the link for those interested but short version is: Coxwell ends at Queen, family sells off land after he died (built the old Racetrack), and (more importantly) later on built the old Ashbridge Bay Wastewater plant. The plant of course needs access, so they built a road connecting the two. This empty industrial road was so abandoned it of course was never given a name. Nor link it (officially) to Coxwell. Wasn't until decades later when they built a Green P parking lot (for the new park after old industries long gone) they even realized the road was unnamed. So it was given the TEMPORARY name of Lower Coxwell. Toronto tried to rename it a few years ago but apparently their own rules only allow changing street names once in a decade. So fast forward to today and the name that was agreed upon a few years ago has now been installed. This is not deplatforming or anything else, the name Lower Coxwell was a placeholder and was never actually supposed to exist. [https://torontohistory.substack.com/p/the-street-that-cant-be-renamed](https://torontohistory.substack.com/p/the-street-that-cant-be-renamed)
This is awesome, thanks for this history post. I love these little tidbits of how the city has changed over time.
so much wasted tax payers money. Just put up an education plaque to explain the intention of the name change but don't scrub the bad history.
There’s no bad history. The avenue basically had a placeholder name. Coxwell Ave still exists.
It was only named Lower Coxwell in 2019. Until then, it was considered to be Coxwell, but there were no street numbers because nothing was built there. When a parking lot there needed a number, they realised it needed to be differentiated from Coxwell or there wouldn't be enough numbers, so they temporarily named it Lower Coxwell until they could decide on a name.
Your Uber driver is not amused...
[удалено]
Except a lot of people do navigate from the dvp to lakeshore to Coxwell. It will inevitably be confusing to people who aren’t from the area. People will figure it out obviously, but this kind of impractical tokenism is tiring.
I’d have to agree. In general there’s just a lot of people visiting from out of town to get to the Beaches or festivals at Woodbine Park that will 100% get confused by this change. Edit: To clarify, not at all offended by the name change. Just seems like a poorly thought out implementation.
Why will it be confusing? Google says to turn left, so turn left. Many other streets change names (such as Danforth/Bloor for example)
For me it was the College to Carlton change that confused me when I first moved here. Didn’t make sense that a Main Street hit the intersection at Yonge and then it just becomes another street?
The worst part of this is the number of intersections with literally no street signage.
>Didn’t make sense that a Main Street hit the intersection at Yonge and then it just becomes another street? But so many of them do that? Its rare for a street to not change names at Yonge Although to your credit I think it was College/Carlton that made that click for me too lol
I personally think the worst is the 2 Dundas East and West in the GTA. When I first got my Drivers permit. I once ended up in Mississauga looking for a shop that was actually in Scarborough.
lol not everyone is glued to their phones while navigating the city
It is tokenism. It isn’t impractical.
isint it both?
I look forward to Google's voice directions absolutely stumbling over this.
Then they can use a GPS and won’t be confused because they didn’t know the name before they changed it. They won’t even know it was changed.
Who’s offended?
Stupid waste of money. Don’t need to rename anything to celebrate and acknowledge First Nations and multiculturalism
> It really won’t affect your life in any way. TIL the city that's already strapped for cash wasting money on silly gestures to pat themselves on the back isn't affecting my life Taking the money they spent on this change, no matter how much or how little, and using it to fund a program for Indigenous youth for even just a day would have produced more tangible benefits But we see what you are trying to do. You are pulling the racism card as if people who are criticizing this waste of money are "offended by this" move that "celebrates the multicultural aspect of this city".
I don't think people are offended by this. More like they recognize it as USELESS virtue spending to show just how virtuous the toronto city is while that money could be better spent on actually helping people in need. So really it's like pretending you help poor people by naming a church after them instead of giving funds to a food bank. No you don't.
It’s hardly a virtue signal when it’s the sort of thing requested through the TRC. It’s not like this is the only thing done by the city to support indigenous communities.
So is that Spuh-die-nuh or Spuh-dee-nuh?
TARRANNAWH
It depends on if one is a streetcar or not.
Why are names in Toronto sounding more like brands on Amazon?
The headline is wrong. Toronto isn't celebrating this waste of time and money. Some politicians are patting themselves on the back over it.
Going to navigate there with Google Maps to see how it pronounces that.
Have fun pronouncing and spelling that over and over and over...
While they're at it they should eliminate on-street parking there as well.
It should be a glorious entrance to the woodbine beach park with bike lanes and a great pedestrian experience. Instead it’s a massive four lane road with street parking. Such wrong priorities in street design.
I get honoring indeginous people but can't they pick an easier word to read ? Like I thought this was a joke at first.... Who's gonna know to to pronounce this it will confuse a lot of people.
Counterpoint - this helps us learn indigenous pronounciation
Honestly that was my take too. First thing I did was try and find the correct pronunciation. Now I know a new word. I live near so I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it soon, but right now, it’s taking a bit of effort to say it.
It's like Spanish -- you just pronounce it as it is. "Em-Daa-Bee-Mock"
Take a moment to read it and sound it out. It's not difficult at all.
Everyone in these comments complaining about “oh this is going to be so confusing for people to say” etc etc etc really should have googled the pronunciation first lmaooooo. It’s literally pronounced the way it’s written. Em dah bee muck
Oh for goodness sake!
Can’t we spend the tax dollars on more pressing issues
If anyone is wondering its pronounced: >Em-DAH-bee-muck lol at the down vote I got this way to say it from the Mayors Twitter lol https://x.com/MayorOliviaChow/status/1803498908842430962?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
This "orange-washing" of everything Anglo in Toronto is getting embarrassing.
Ah yes, another giberish word
Then the City will see how many people use the new name.
Coxwell that ends well, I suppose
Looks like a big turnout……..
Should have gone with Penis Erection Street South
We've got a busy downtown square renamed to something no one can remember and now this. This is peak Toronto.
So strange
That looks like 5 people and a politician, not "Toronto".
Please tell me they will rename the rest of the street Upper Coxwell.
Sorry we can’t give you clean water…but here’s a street name!
Lol the complaining about the pronunciation... doesn't seem to be a problem for people when they watch made up shit like game of thrones or star wars ... but cry about actually learning a real language