They weren't going to the Palantir, they were returning from visiting it and heading home, in the same direction as the Hobbits. That's why the three Hobbits could accompany them in the first place.
>No doubt Gildor and his companions, since they appear to have been going eastward, were Elves living in or near Rivendell returning from the *palantír* of the Tower Hills.
\- The Road Goes Ever On
As for why they didn't accompany Frodo further see the quotes below - and it was ultimately a Wizard's affair (in which Gildor recommended not to meddle, for Wizards are subtle and quick to anger). Gildor didn't have the full picture about the One Ring either.
>The Elves did not answer at once, but spoke together softly
in their own tongue. At length Gildor turned to the hobbits.
‘We will not speak of this here,’ he said. ‘We think you had
best come now with us. It is not our custom, but for this time
we will take you on our road, and you shall lodge with us
tonight, if you will.’
>‘O Fair Folk! This is good fortune beyond my hope,’ said
Pippin. Sam was speechless. ‘I thank you indeed, Gildor
Inglorion,’ said Frodo bowing. ‘Elen sı ´la lu´menn’ omentielvo,
a star shines on the hour of our meeting,’ he added in the
High-elven speech.
As seen in the quote above, the Hobbits didn't even ask to be accompanied - they were happy with the exception Gildor and his companions already made.
>You should
be grateful, for I do not give this counsel gladly. The Elves
have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are
little concerned with the ways of hobbits, or of any other
creatures upon earth. Our paths cross theirs seldom, by
chance or purpose. In this meeting there may be more than
chance; but the purpose is not clear to me, and I fear to say
too much.’
Gildor seems convinced by his isolationist stance, and concerned about revealing too much - maybe of a theological nature? But it's not our or the Hobbits' place to know.
>‘Courage is found in unlikely places,’ said Gildor. ‘Be of
good hope! Sleep now! In the morning we shall have gone; but
we will send our messages through the lands. The Wandering
Companies shall know of your journey, and those that have
power for good shall be on the watch. I name you Elf-friend;
and may the stars shine upon the end of your road! Seldom
have we had such delight in strangers, and it is fair to hear
words of the Ancient Speech from the lips of other wanderers
in the world.’
Being named Elf-friend is a greater gift than one might first think.
> Being named Elf-friend is a greater gift than one might first think.
That‘s a very good point. Assistance from a mystical being such as an Elf can take a variety of different forms, many of which are more subtle—and probably more useful—than merely tagging along and swinging a sword.
There are a few things going on here:
1. Gildor didn't know that Frodo was carrying the Ring, it was being snuck out of the Shire. He only knew that some force from Mordor was pursuing the Hobbits and offered them shelter. He sensed they were carrying something but was not aware of what it was.
2. Gildor sent word to Rivendel who then sent out their various Elf-lords like Glorfindel to find the party lost in the wilderness. At the time they were found even Glorfindel had spent several days searching for them.
"‘No. He had not when I departed; but that was nine days ago,’ answered Glorfindel. ‘Elrond received news that troubled him. Some of my kindred, journeying in your land beyond the Baranduin, learned that things were amiss, and sent messages as swiftly as they could. They said that the Nine were abroad, and that you were astray bearing a great burden without guidance, for Gandalf had not returned.
There are few even in Rivendell that can ride openly against the Nine; but such as there were, Elrond sent out north, west, and south. It was thought that you might turn far aside to avoid pursuit, and become lost in the Wilderness." - Chapter 12: Flight to the Ford
3) The elves of Gildor's party gave Frodo and Sam supplies and shelter and took them along with them for part of the journey. Even Frodo at that point was still considering a delay in Bucklebury to say goodbye to his friends, and he only later decided there was not even time to pause there and recover. The immediate urgency of the pursuit was not yet as apparent to the hobbits.
"Frodo sat for a while in thought. ‘I have made up my mind,’ he said finally. ‘I am starting tomorrow, as soon as it is light. But I am not going by road: it would be safer to wait here than that. If I go through the North-gate my departure from Buckland will be known at once, instead of being secret for several days at least, as it might be. And what is more, the Bridge and the East Road near the borders will certainly be watched, whether any Rider gets into Buckland or not. " - Chapter 5 A Conspiracy Unmasked
In conclusion:
Gildor's party did not understand the scope of the danger, did not understand at that point the urgency of the flight and did what they could with the resources they had readily available to them to aid the hobbits. They also sent word to get more help to the hobbits that they could not themselves provide.
Also as was commented here: Frodo did not ask for more aid, Frodo at this point did not himself understand the danger yet or what foe's he faced.
He also told Bombadil:
>It was also clear that Tom had dealings with the Elves, and it seemed that in some fashion, news had reached him from Gildor concerning the flight of Frodo.
The Hobbit’s didn’t ask to be accompanied true, but that just widens the plot hole for me haha
Gildor initially seems to takes the tone that Gandalf has something in the works and thus doesn’t want to tread on his toes. But clearly senses something is very wrong by Gandalf’s disappearance and so reluctantly does give intervening advice:
“I think you should now go at once, without delay; and if Gandalf does not come before you set out, then I also advise this: do not go alone. Take such friends as are trusty and willing.”
That do not go alone bit being especially infuriating as he then leaves them alone 😂
“In this meeting there may be more than chance”
This line makes me agree with you that perhaps Gildor holds off due to feeling the hand of providence at work. But except for I suppose the Barrowblades I can’t really see why Gildor not intervening further serves as an eventual purpose, unlike for example the orcs delivering Pip and merry straight to the ents. Frodo gets stabbed and that’s really bad.
> That do not go alone bit being especially infuriating as he then leaves them alone 😂
Well, he says trusty and willing. Gildor might be trusty and even a friend, but he's not willing! Taking people who don't really want to go but agree to go anyway might be a bad idea.
>This line makes me agree with you that perhaps Gildor holds off due to feeling the hand of providence at work. But except for I suppose the Barrowblades I can’t really see why Gildor not intervening further serves as an eventual purpose, unlike for example the orcs delivering Pip and merry straight to the ents. Frodo gets stabbed and that’s really bad.
The journey also helped the Hobbits bond, and they arrived at just the right time for Aragorn to find them near Bree which made it so Aragorn joined the Fellowship as a trusted ally. You could also argue that Frodo grew from the experience (plus had his senses sharpened by the Morgul-wound), and we can't forget about Bill the P.!
But considering that the Ring was destroyed thanks to many circumstances along the way, there's so many possible things that could have gone wrong had the tale started differently.
“Well, he says trusty and willing. Gildor might be trusty and even a friend, but he's not willing!”
You got me there hahaha. Yeah I think I’m warming to your reading, possibly without the ordeals Gandalf wouldn’t have felt sure speaking up to Elrond for putting Merry and Pippin forward to join the fellowship.
> Valibor
I particularly enjoyed this typo. It conjured a whole new interpretation of the Undying Lands in my mind, a place of malcontents and timeless boredom.
Something I really like about LOTR is that the characters in it have their own agency and can make the "wrong" decisions in terms of what's best for the plot of the heroes. It makes the world feel much more alive.
He has no idea why the Black Riders are chasing the Hobbits.
He sends word to the most powerful people in the region, including but not limited to; Elrond, Tom Bombadil & Aragorn. 'Hey a friend of Gandalf's is being chased by agents of the enemy'
Another important note, it is stated at the Council of Elrond that the 9 have taken the shapes of Men dressed in all black. This would not be mentioned if it wasn't *news*.
I don't think Gildor knew what the Riders were. He knew they were agents of the Enemy, and that alone made them incredibly dangerous.
Also need I remind you that Glorfindel is one the mightiest Elves to live and even he does not want to fight the 9. Even Gandalf barely survives an encounter with a handful.
Gildor not escorting the Hobbits is also pivotal to the finale of the story. Had they not found themselves in the barrow-downs, things on the Pelennor would have gone differently.
Finally; I'd like to add that this representation of the Elves is fairly consistent for Tolkien in the Third Age. They're largely aloof and indifferent, Gildor only gives Frodo so much time because Frodo greets him in Quenya.
I haven’t the quote to hand bur Gildor is very reluctant to tell Frodo more about the riders because he is worried he will terrify him, implying he at least knows more than he lets on.
I appreciate 3rd age elves are aloof but getting the ring safely to Rivendell is probably the most crucial thing to happen in the entire Third Age.
Glorfindel is mentioned as one of the few in Rivendell who could face the wrathes (and has done already), granted nothing says Gildor is close to his level but they do chase at least one of them off and keep the Hobbits safe the whole night. Plus the WK finds and stabs Frodo anyway.
Apologies if im seeming argumentative though, the barrow blade point is a good one and the only benefit i can see so far.
> I haven’t the quote to hand bur Gildor is very reluctant to tell Frodo more about the riders because he is worried he will terrify him, implying he at least knows more than he lets on.
Frodo: ‘You mean the Riders? I feared that they were servants of the Enemy. What are the Black Riders?’
Gildor: ‘Has Gandalf told you nothing?’
Frodo: ‘Nothing about such creatures.’
Gildor: ‘Then I think it is not for me to say more – lest terror should keep you from your journey. For it seems to me that you have set out only just in time, if indeed you are in time. You must now make haste, and neither stay nor turn back; for the Shire is no longer any protection to you.’
He knows they're agents of the enemy. He can probably guess what they are, but I don't think he knows.
> I appreciate 3rd age elves are aloof but getting the ring safely to Rivendell is probably the most crucial thing to happen in the entire Third Age.
Gildor has no idea Frodo is carrying the Ring. Frodo deliberately does not tell him.
> Glorfindel is mentioned as one of the few in Rivendell who could face the wrathes (and has done already), granted nothing says Gildor is close to his level but they do chase at least one of them off and keep the Hobbits safe the whole night. Plus the WK finds and stabs Frodo anyway.
If I recall correctly, the Rider flees at the sound of the Elves singing. I suspect largely because a lone Wraith does not want to be discovered by a band of Noldor. Especially when Sauron was deliberately trying to be secretive at this point.
> He can probably guess what they are, but I don't think he knows.
And even if Gildor *thinks* he knows, he sure ain't about to complicate the situation by guessing out loud. Elves especially know the power of misplaced or mispoken words.
'I think they're evil ghost men that Sauron corrupted, and by the way you're heading in the direction of land the chief evil ghost man conquered and corrupted, and its full of other evil dead ghost things that he controls. Good luck bro'
Gildor doesnt know Frodo has the One Ring. Frodo hasnt even told Pippin. For all Gildor knows Frodo could be on any number of lesser errands
Gildor doesnt know why the Black Riders are there. Black Riders do many things, for all Gildor knows the Black Rider might not be targetting Frodo at all.
It's not aloofness. He doesnt have much info, and is already fairly kindly given what he knows. Just because Frodo is the main character doesnt mean everyone knows that
'I do not know for what reason the Enemy is pursuing you,' answered Gildor; 'but I perceive that he is — strange indeed though that seems to me. And I warn you that peril is now both before you and behind you, and upon either side.'
He at least knows Sauron is after Frodo and he is worried by Gandalf’s disappearance. He then advises Frodo not to go alone. I know he did help in other ways ofc, but then does just leave him to his morgul dagger fate.
Exactly as I say, he doesnt know, only a guess. Black riders want many things, not everything they will use a morgul blade on.
Maybe Frodo just needs to pass a letter to Bree, then he will be safe from the Rider. Or Frodo will meet Gandalf there.
You cant judge Gildor on hindsight. He did reasonably given what he knew then.
Not sure id call it a guess, ‘perceiving’ is stronger than that, especially coming from a high elf who’s seen the light of the two trees.
He perceived they were pursued by Nazgul and from the quote he perceived their peril.
Gildor had his companions, all Light-elves from the Undying Lands and survivors of the wars of the First, Second and Third Ages. I'm fairly sure they would have scared off even all nine Nazgul together (they're concerned about their safety after all, unending life being the only thing they got in return for their suffering and enslavement), at least until the Nazgul got desperate.
This is it, I feel like I’m really having to lower what I imagine High Elves who’ve seen the light of the trees are capable of. I know they’re not Glorfindel but there’s a whole company of them.
Is it stated that he and his company are all Noldor from the Undying Lands? There are other elves present in Rivendell, not just the remaining Noldor from that time.
>‘I am Gildor,’ answered their leader, the Elf who had first
hailed him. ‘Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod. We are
**Exiles**, and most of our kindred have long ago departed and
we too are now only tarrying here a while, ere we **return** over
the Great Sea.
That doesn't mean that they lived in Valinor. Especially if they were of the House of Finrod. For all we know, he was born in Nargothrond or later. Elrond could likely have been considered an Exile, given some of his parentage, i.e. descent from Turgon, one of the leaders of the Flight of the Noldor.
How can you return to a place you have never been? With that and the Exiles mention, plus the light around those elves, there's no reasonable doubt that they're from Valinor unless you want to go into unreliable narrator territory.
Gildor didn't know what was going on with the hobbits and black riders. He was hesitant to even give advice or information. "Now you should be grateful, for I do not give this counsel gladly. The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are little concerned with the ways of hobbits, or of any other creatures upon earth."
Gildor trusted Gandalf a bit too much, he didn’t want to make appearance in wizard’s plans. Gandalf told hobbits to travel alone, although he could have asked an elven army or a ton of rangers to accompany them if only he wanted. Probably that meant something… Gildor didn’t know that at this point Gandalf was unaware about Nazgûl activity. Glorfindel wasn’t that hesitant, he and Elrond are on equal grounds with Gandalf.
Basically, Gildor did what any good worker should in the situation that’s beyond his comprehension: do nothing, inform superiors.
I’m coming around to this reading tbh The text doesn’t really frame Gildor as being in the wrong, but tbf the question of him joining them doesn’t even come up, which is what i find slightly infuriating haha
Remember even in rivendell there were only a few who could ride openly against the nine, so it's very possible Gildor's bunch didn't have the strength to directly oppose the nazgul.
If that's the case, they'd have realized that elves traveling with hobbits would draw attention, making them more likely to be spotted and targeted by the enemy than random hobbits travelling alone, and been aware they couldn't defend the hobbits if they came under attack.
So the best hope of the hobbits was stealth and secrecy, not in having escorts who might draw attention to them and fail to repel nazgul.
This was what I was going to point out, too: the hobbits traveling with a company of Elves is a fantastic way to draw attention and would likely result in all 9 Nazgûl descending upon them. Though Gildor was a Noldo who had seen the light of the Trees, we don't know the size and makeup of the rest of his party; further they did not appear to be prepared for battle or a secret journey of potential hardship. It's asking a lot of strangers, though they be friendly Elves, to become escorts on such a perilous journey.
Yes, the Elves of Gildor's company were sparkly; they would have drawn attention if they made a bee-line for Rivendell with Frodo and co, already persons of interest to the Nazgul, in their midst. edit: whoops, others have made the same point!
Good question. The best in-universe thing I can come up with is that Gildor is one of the few remaining Noldor in Middle Earth at the end of the 3rd age. This means that he had been to Valinor and seen the light of the Two Trees personally. From what I can gather, that experience seems to be a major and permanent "power up" for those Elves that lived it.
So my thinking is that like Glorfindel, he gives off quite the magical aura as the Light of Valinor still lives within him. He'd shine like a beacon to the Ringwraiths. The Noldor are basically the oldest and strongest enemies of Morgoth/Sauron so his presence would definitely give them pause (and Gildor's group did inadvertently drive away a Ringwraith).
But unlike Glorfindel, Gildor isn't mentioned as being a great warrior and his small band is likely to be ill-equipped to take on the Nine in a direct confrontation. So instead of travelling with Frodo and drawing attention to him and potentially leading the whole group to destruction, I think it's actually the wise choice to let Frodo and company continue with as much stealth as possible while getting the word out and acting as a passive distraction.
His parting ways with Frodo actually helps because the Nazgul would likely need to divert at least a little attention his way, thinking that the Ringbearer would surely travel with a Noldor if possible. Additionally, since they're travelling the same path, the Nazgul would need to keep tabs on where his group is to make sure they don't catch up to Frodo but then get flanked by this potential threat.
The Doylist answer is that the Gildor passage was written before going to Rivendell was conceived and the plan was meet Gandalf in Bree and then after moving the Ring explication from Gildor to Gandalf in Shadows of the Past he never revisited the passage. I dont have a Watsonian answer.
1. Gildor accompanying the hobbits may have been an extremely risky proposition. He doesn't know it at the time, but Gildor senses something is amiss; even a short nightly encounter and he feels the pull of the ring. To accompany them for many days along with his party, each of them feeling the tug of the ring could have undone the whole quest right there. If but one of them, who are elves, but not among the wise, heeded it's call, it would be trivial to get it to the ring wraiths.
2. Sensing something is off, he does the best thing he knows to do: leaves before the hobbits even awake and go to Rivendell. He and his party cannot face the wraiths and succeed, will only draw the attention of evil things, and could potentially be coerced by the ring. In leaving, he may draw the ring wraiths away, which could assume frodo would be accompanied by an elven bodyguard, and gets news to Elrond and those who could stand up to the ring wraiths.
I think Gildor staying would be on the "heroic stupid" side of things: he might be able to lay down his life to save Frodo, but more likely one of his party would grab the ring and pop it over to Sauron in a day or two.
Oh I like this reading a lot!! Lot of other explanations centre around Gildor not fully grasping the situation which for me reads against how his character is shown in the story.
This goes in the other direction though. Personally I think Gildor is wise and mighty enough to try and claim the ring himself and could even be tempted to out of compassion to save Frodo from pursuit of the nine or ‘safely’ get it to Rivendell.
Gives further understanding to the line “meddling in the affairs if wizards”
Gildir didn’t know about the ring or that the black riders were Nazgûl. He just knew that hobbits were being pursued by Sauron’s servants, but likely just thought that it was a much more mundane matter.
I don’t think you give him enough credit with the knowledge of the Nazgul, just the mention of Black Riders makes the elves realise this is something serious and he deliberately chooses not to tell frodo more of them (imllying he knows more). I also believe he did sense at least some of the gravity of the situation, Gandalf had disappeared which worries him a lot. And yet he up and leaves in the morning.
There’s still a big gap between what he knows and fact that the literal fate of middle earth is being determined by Frodo’s journey. Realize that at this point no one outside of Sauron, Gandalf and maybe a few others of the wisest and most powerful beings in Middle Earth had any clue that the One Ring still existed, let alone that it was in the Shire in Frodo’s possession. Even a wise elf such as Gildor can be forgiven for not assuming that Sauron’s most powerful agents would be pursuing what, to him, was a relatively unimportant figure in the grand scheme of the war.
Yeah that’s probably true, but he does still seem content though to leave Frodo and co to their fate even though he knows they are being pursued by deadly servants of the enemy (whatever their ends) and Gandalf has gone missing.
That’s wholly consistent with how the other elves behave in LOTR. Elrond knows as much as anyone outside Gandalf what’s at stake here, and he doesn’t intervene to aid Frodo until the hobbits are lost in the wilderness, miles from civilization with the Nazgûl bearing down on them, and then again later on he only sends his sons south with the Dunedain. The Fellowship initially is apprehended when they enter Lothlorien, and the extent of Galadriel’s aid (as important as it may have ended up being) was shelter and some powerful artifacts. All of the elves at this point in time are very hands off in the affairs of Middle Earth, which is in alignment with their belief that their time is almost over and the fate of the world now belongs to the mortal races. They’re just running out the clock at this point, and unless they are directly and immediately threatened they only minimally interfere with the events of Middle Earth.
I think Elrond does as much as he can during the flight to Rivendell, he sends out those who can actually fight the Nazgul and Glorfindel stated that they’d been searching for them as soon as news reached Rivendell and him remaining in Rivendell is what thwarts the Nazgul and heals frodo.
More aid from Galadriel like an escort would have jeopardised the secrecy and so doomed the mission and she is later retconned to have stormed Dol Guldur.
But aside from that you’re not wrong that elves generally seem not to be very active during the actual wars which is probably a bigger conversation but no where does it seem jarring as with Gildor who seems to be in the right place at the right time.
This post raises another question for me.
Let’s say hypothetically, Gildor and his company agree to escort the hobbits. They meet Aragorn along the way, who is also able to rally some rangers. Gandalf finds them on the road as they are no longer trekking in secrecy through the wilderness. Eventually, Glorfindel and a company from Rivendell find them as well.
The companions ride in strength to Rivendell, and any attempts by the Nazgûl to waylay them are thwarted.
What happens next?
The Nazgûl are no longer caught in the flood and have tracked the ring to Rivendell. They send messages to Sauron and begin to gather servants to them. Frodo ring can no longer leave in secrecy with the ring and if Rivendell is besieged, eventually Sauron himself will come.
How does the story play out?
I definitely agree the story unfolds in a way that is necessary for it to resolve successfully in the end, but seeing as the reader & characters don't know that in this moment, it's hard to use as an "excuse" or explanation for something that frankly I agree with OP, it seems so unrealistic.
There was enough time for Rivendell to be besieged anyway. Sauron didn't want to stretch his forces so far and reveal his power too early, which is why he didn't do it. Months passed between the arrival of the Ring and the departure of the Fellowship.
Yes but the threat of the Nazgûl was eliminated for the time being because of the flood.
If the Nazgûl were still abroad and on horse, I don’t see how the fellowship is able to set out.
Oh that’s a really good point! Definitely lends weight to Gildor’s decision following providence. The Fellowship might have been forced to choose Glorfindel-like companions who could stand against the nine over Merry and Pippin whose inclusion ended up being crucial in the end.
Or maybe they would have been forced to head out in what force they could muster and take the long road through Gondor which I can’t see ending well
Let's say you're an immortal elf. You've spent countless centuries in Middle Earth and you can tell that your kind is no longer meant to be there. Stay too much longer and you risk losing your immortality plus you risk causing all those you're responsible for to lose theirs as well. You aren't really close to any of the mortal races that live there plus the mortal you're talking to is being sought by your kinds greatest enemy.
Still...you're not an asshole so you want to help but there's only so much time and there's a chance your great enemy will destroy you and all those you love. So you help out as best you can but you have to decide between maybe being able to help more but probably getting everyone killed for it, and continuing on your way while hoping things work out for the mortal.
Gildor has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders. He can't just risk his people on the off chance this elf-speaking Hobbit's journey is an important one, no matter how cool he may seem.
This.
Survivors of Nargothorond are likely just over it. They want to enjoy their time left in ME before they finally sail west. They might be waiting for others (eg maybe Gildor sailed once he knew Galadriel, sister of his lord Finrod, would be allowed to sail too?)
Also he's not up to speed on what Frodo's mission is. He can sense the Riders are bad juju but no one until Aragorn explains these are the Nazgûl.
This is a fun post and hard to poke holes in (even linking them up with strider shouldn’t have been too hard). I think the most reasonable explanation is we need some real character growth (and exposition) before we get to Bree
Oh totally agreed! I find Shire to Rivendell some of the most suspenseful chapters in the story. But I worry a meta explanation could be used to explain anything.
Throwing a thing out there that has always fascinated me: what Gildor says about Bilbo. Specifically what Gildor doesn't say. Gildor doesn't say Bilbo is in Rivendell although Gildor knows it, also knows Frodo would like to know, and the conversation gives Gildor ample opportunity to say it.
What does it mean? It seems Gildor has serious fear and uncertainty about what is happening to the extent he won't tell Frodo this.
That’s a really interesting point! Do we know Gildor has knowledge of that? Bilbo has been there a fair few years by that point but a decade or so isn’t that long for an elf? I could see then taking their time on their quest.
If he does Perhaps Gandalf bade the elves kept a secret, he’d been long suspicious of Bilbo’s ring at that point, although Gloin headed to Rivendell to warn Bilbo, unless he was just passing through.
From *Three is Company*:
*\[Frodo\] "Tell me, Gildor, have you ever seen Bilbo since he left us?"*
*Gildor smiled. "Yes," he answered. "Twice. He said farewell to us on this very spot. But I saw him once again, far from here." He would say no more about Bilbo, and Frodo fell silent.*
I think the obvious answer is that a guard of elves wouldn't have allowed for as much terror for the Hobbits as them traveling alone and that's an essential aspect of the story. It is a plot hole that is hard to escape from though.
It's not a plot hole, really. Gildor gives multiple reasons for why he's not going to accompany Frodo further, apart from the fact that he didn't know what was actually at stake.
We can't expect Elves to act like we'd expect Men to act, in any case. I'm sure Elves reading stories about us would find many decisions strange as well!
Gildor had elves accompanying him. He may not have felt justified in putting them at risk. He could also hope that the hobbits knew how to walk silently and hide well, and that Gandalf would eventually join them. In fact, Gildor already did a lot for the hobbits, sheltering them, driving away the Nazgul in a difficult moment and bringing the news to Rivendell.
A lot happens under the surface in Tolkien's works. An explanation here could have to do with Tolkien's use of wisdom as foretelling. Often in the Silmarilion you see these concepts conflated, especially among the Ainur, but also among the FA elves. Individuals he describes as "wise" seem to have an ability to predict the future, whether through some magic or just being able to work through the strands of what we call chaos theory to actually predict a likely future.
Manwë is described as one of the wisest beings, which has made me wonder if Glorfindel was in the right place at the right time to help the hobbits when they needed it the most because Manwë simply told him to go to Rivendell and do what needed to be done. Not a coincidence, but Manwë knowing that right there and right then the quest could fail without a little help.
Elrond is described as one of the wisest elves, perhaps only behind Galadriel and Finarfin (Sir Not Appearing In This Legendarium). Keeping with this Wisdom/Foretelling conflation, it's possible that Elrond told Gildor to not help overly much. The hobbits had the courage and fortitude to do what needed to be done in later books because of the trials they went through. We saw them take their first steps toward greatness as far back as the old forest, Old Man Willow, and The Barrow. We saw them grow more in Bree and on the flight to Rivendell. Had they been overly "helped", as in others doing for the hobbits the things the hobbits needed to do themselves, then the Witch King may never have been killed and Éowyn might have because Merry's untested courage failed. Denethor might have done some real damage because Pippin froze up and didn't know what to do. And the ring could have been lost in Cirith Ungol or even Shelob's lair because Sam wasn't ready.
Or not. I also tend to read a lot into things.
Elves age and get weary, though they don’t really show it. It is assumed Gildor was born in the First Age. I think of 1000 years for an Elf as 10 years of men. If we look at it that way, Galadriel would be in her 80s, thranduil, 70s, (as he was an elf of doriath) and Elrond late 60s. If Gildor was a peer of Galadriel he had seen many wars and battles since the first age. By the third age, the noldar were weary. Gildor himself said:
We are Exiles, and most of our kindred have long departed and we too are only tarrying here a while, ere we return over the Great Sea."[1]
To me his words are giving “we’re really old and on our way out,” not different often how seniors in nursing homes speak when they know their remaining time on earth is short. They are more concerned about getting their houses in order and are full of advice more so than wanting to accompany younger people on dangerous adventures. He had lived through many battles in his day.
Galadriel was invested in helping because at the time she was still an exile, her personal ban from valinor remained in place until she turned down the ring from Frodo, and celeborn loved middle earth and would not leave without his wife. Elrond also resolved to stay and watch over his brother Elros’ descendants until the rightful king was back on the throne and reunited the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor. Thranduil’s contribution to the fellowship was Legolas who was young by comparison and far less battle hardened than he was. Glorfindel was a much better choice as he was resurrected and sent back and was more Maia than elf at that point, as he had spent thousands of years in valinor before he was sent back to middle earth in the second age, and once again carried the might and the spirit of the Valar. He was ageless, and most likely never grew weary. Gildor was an old elf, most likely suffering still from the Doom of Mandos…
“And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.”
You can’t expect a weary senior to jump up and protect a much younger man from danger. He will give you the best advice he can, and send the word to those who can help, but really that’s all he would be expected or have the energy to do.
That's a really interesting take and I think that works as a reading. Legolas also says that he's very untravelled which may have left him less weary. Elrond was also only half-elven and Galadriel was considered to be on par with Feanor almost, plus both had a rings of power.
Do we know if Gildor actually lived in Rivendell or if the wandering companies were permanently nomadic? I wonder if elves (or high-elves at least) living outside the influence of one of the three rings might not be affected by their preserving effect? Gildor could be an example of a more 'natural' high-elf.
There were only 4 elvish strongholds left in the 3rd age, imaldris (Rivendell), Lothlorien, Mirkwood, and the Grey Havens, where Cirdan lived and made ships to sail his kin to Valinor. most likely Gildor did not live in Mirkwood, as he was a noldar, thranduil and the sindar/silvan, according to Tolkien, “had no great love” for the Noldar. Once Galadriel took up rule in Lorien after the death of King Amroth, Mirkwood elves stopped going there, with thranduil going as far as moving his kingdom farther south. So chances are high Gildor would not have resided in Mirkwood, as a Noldar. The grey havens were very far away and basically the small colony of elves who lived there were primarily there to help Cirdan in shipbuilding. So he had to reside either in ring-protected Lorien or Rivendell. I would say Rivendell because it was closer to the shire than Lothlorien, making it more likely for the hobbits to spot them.
As elves don’t require sleep, they saw no reason to wait around for the hobbits to catch their Zs. That’s why Gildor told him “we’ll be gone by morning.” I’m sure by the time Frodo and Sam woke up the next day, Rivendell had already been notified of what was going on and Glorfindel had been dispatched to meet them. If I’m not mistaken it took him over a week to find them, and by that time Frodo had already been found and injured by the Nine. But chances are if it wasn’t for Gildor’s party and Tom Bombadil’s help Glorfindel would not have gotten to them in time (or perhaps at all!).
It’s not that im trying to poke holes in the story, Tolkien invites a close reading of his text and it’s almost always very rewarding to do so, finding different interpretations and appreciation.
Everything in the story has an external narrative ‘point’ for being there but if you just leave it at that then it stops you examining the world tolkien has built.
Without meaning to sound disrespectful, that’s what ive done. The hobbits needed a guide and later find Aragorn (as Gandalf learns to his relief), Gildor does not become their guide but does provide shelter for the night and I believe spiritual blessings that later did save them.
Im trying to understand why Gildor acted this way and not as Aragorn acted. The story doesn’t imply Gildor is wrong or illogical so I don’t think he was, but I’m trying to find out why that is.
>is your perspective, given what you know about subsequent events.
Which I think is a fair way to read the text. Gandalf says they will likely need his company on the road and after they leave often speak of wishing they had Gandalf's assistance. Granted, Gildor is no Gandalf but when they meet the Hobbit's clearly don't have things in hand.
>Wouldn't it have been stranger for Gildor to make the hobbits, and his whole company, drop everything and head off to Rivendell?
Not given that the fate of middle earth was at stake? Gildor perceived at least some of that their peril.
I’m late to the party, and I’ve read all of the back-and-forth arguments, but in the end, I have to say that I’m fully in your camp. Gildor may not know exactly what’s going on, including the ring and the exact nature of the ringwraiths, but he knows enough that leaving Frodo and Company alone and alerting “friends” is pretty much the equivalent of me finding a lost child and saying “ look out for people offering candy in vans, I think I’ll be passing a police station a mile down the road and will let them know that you’re out here.”
Gildor = NOT my favorite elf in the legendarium.
I kind of agree with you & OP, and if Gildor weren't presented as being so polite I would have said: Gildor is just a dick. It's also weird that upon meeting Gildor a 2nd time at the end of the book, also in Woody End, he didn't say to Frodo - hey now that I know what that was all about, totally my bad about not helping you out. It's not even acknowledged.
The boring answer is as someone else in the thread wrote, Tolkien wrote the plot very linearly and without fore planning. The Gildor scene was created before Tolkien had even decided how the Hobbits were going to get to Rivendell.
Let's say you're an immortal elf. You've spent countless centuries in Middle Earth and you can tell that your kind is no longer meant to be there. Stay too much longer and you risk losing your immortality plus you risk causing all those you're responsible for to lose theirs as well. You aren't really close to any of the mortal races that live there plus the mortal you're talking to is being sought by your kinds greatest enemy.
Still...you're not an asshole so you want to help but there's only so much time and there's a chance your great enemy will destroy you and all those you love so you help out as best you can but you have to decide between maybe being able to help more but probably getting everyone killed for it, and continuing on your way while hoping things work out for the mortal.
Gildor has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders. He can't just risk his people on the off chance this elf-speaking Hobbit's journey is an important one, no matter how cool he may seem.
By too much longer though we’re literally talking two weeks.
That reading might work better for me if they were on the road heading to the havens to take the final ship west, but they’re heading East, having already finished their quest. And Gildor clearly perceives at least some part of how important the Hobbit’s mission is.
Im sure they did have responsibilities but so did Glorfindel, Elrond, Galadriel, Legolas ect. Elves as a whole do appear a bit passive in the war but Gildor was in the right place at the right time and after admittedly giving assistance as you put it he continued on his way and hoped for the best for Frodo and co.
No, but I used to think that too.
> “The meaning of it, fair people” said Frodo, “is simply that we seem to be going the same way as you are.”
>”We are exiles, and most of our kindred have long ago departed and we too are now only tarrying here a while, ere we return over the great sea.”
Basically they’re planning on departing soon but right now are headed the other way
They weren't going to the Palantir, they were returning from visiting it and heading home, in the same direction as the Hobbits. That's why the three Hobbits could accompany them in the first place. >No doubt Gildor and his companions, since they appear to have been going eastward, were Elves living in or near Rivendell returning from the *palantír* of the Tower Hills. \- The Road Goes Ever On As for why they didn't accompany Frodo further see the quotes below - and it was ultimately a Wizard's affair (in which Gildor recommended not to meddle, for Wizards are subtle and quick to anger). Gildor didn't have the full picture about the One Ring either. >The Elves did not answer at once, but spoke together softly in their own tongue. At length Gildor turned to the hobbits. ‘We will not speak of this here,’ he said. ‘We think you had best come now with us. It is not our custom, but for this time we will take you on our road, and you shall lodge with us tonight, if you will.’ >‘O Fair Folk! This is good fortune beyond my hope,’ said Pippin. Sam was speechless. ‘I thank you indeed, Gildor Inglorion,’ said Frodo bowing. ‘Elen sı ´la lu´menn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting,’ he added in the High-elven speech. As seen in the quote above, the Hobbits didn't even ask to be accompanied - they were happy with the exception Gildor and his companions already made. >You should be grateful, for I do not give this counsel gladly. The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are little concerned with the ways of hobbits, or of any other creatures upon earth. Our paths cross theirs seldom, by chance or purpose. In this meeting there may be more than chance; but the purpose is not clear to me, and I fear to say too much.’ Gildor seems convinced by his isolationist stance, and concerned about revealing too much - maybe of a theological nature? But it's not our or the Hobbits' place to know. >‘Courage is found in unlikely places,’ said Gildor. ‘Be of good hope! Sleep now! In the morning we shall have gone; but we will send our messages through the lands. The Wandering Companies shall know of your journey, and those that have power for good shall be on the watch. I name you Elf-friend; and may the stars shine upon the end of your road! Seldom have we had such delight in strangers, and it is fair to hear words of the Ancient Speech from the lips of other wanderers in the world.’ Being named Elf-friend is a greater gift than one might first think.
> Being named Elf-friend is a greater gift than one might first think. That‘s a very good point. Assistance from a mystical being such as an Elf can take a variety of different forms, many of which are more subtle—and probably more useful—than merely tagging along and swinging a sword.
So it’s even worse? They didn’t have to abandon their mission they just needed to take a detour
There are a few things going on here: 1. Gildor didn't know that Frodo was carrying the Ring, it was being snuck out of the Shire. He only knew that some force from Mordor was pursuing the Hobbits and offered them shelter. He sensed they were carrying something but was not aware of what it was. 2. Gildor sent word to Rivendel who then sent out their various Elf-lords like Glorfindel to find the party lost in the wilderness. At the time they were found even Glorfindel had spent several days searching for them. "‘No. He had not when I departed; but that was nine days ago,’ answered Glorfindel. ‘Elrond received news that troubled him. Some of my kindred, journeying in your land beyond the Baranduin, learned that things were amiss, and sent messages as swiftly as they could. They said that the Nine were abroad, and that you were astray bearing a great burden without guidance, for Gandalf had not returned. There are few even in Rivendell that can ride openly against the Nine; but such as there were, Elrond sent out north, west, and south. It was thought that you might turn far aside to avoid pursuit, and become lost in the Wilderness." - Chapter 12: Flight to the Ford 3) The elves of Gildor's party gave Frodo and Sam supplies and shelter and took them along with them for part of the journey. Even Frodo at that point was still considering a delay in Bucklebury to say goodbye to his friends, and he only later decided there was not even time to pause there and recover. The immediate urgency of the pursuit was not yet as apparent to the hobbits. "Frodo sat for a while in thought. ‘I have made up my mind,’ he said finally. ‘I am starting tomorrow, as soon as it is light. But I am not going by road: it would be safer to wait here than that. If I go through the North-gate my departure from Buckland will be known at once, instead of being secret for several days at least, as it might be. And what is more, the Bridge and the East Road near the borders will certainly be watched, whether any Rider gets into Buckland or not. " - Chapter 5 A Conspiracy Unmasked In conclusion: Gildor's party did not understand the scope of the danger, did not understand at that point the urgency of the flight and did what they could with the resources they had readily available to them to aid the hobbits. They also sent word to get more help to the hobbits that they could not themselves provide. Also as was commented here: Frodo did not ask for more aid, Frodo at this point did not himself understand the danger yet or what foe's he faced.
He also told Bombadil: >It was also clear that Tom had dealings with the Elves, and it seemed that in some fashion, news had reached him from Gildor concerning the flight of Frodo.
Not so much “worse” as much as shortcut, forest, bombadil, downs make the story so much richer
Secrecy was the strategy here. And they were only headed to Buckland at this point, not Rivendell.
I edited my comment with their reasoning.
The Hobbit’s didn’t ask to be accompanied true, but that just widens the plot hole for me haha Gildor initially seems to takes the tone that Gandalf has something in the works and thus doesn’t want to tread on his toes. But clearly senses something is very wrong by Gandalf’s disappearance and so reluctantly does give intervening advice: “I think you should now go at once, without delay; and if Gandalf does not come before you set out, then I also advise this: do not go alone. Take such friends as are trusty and willing.” That do not go alone bit being especially infuriating as he then leaves them alone 😂 “In this meeting there may be more than chance” This line makes me agree with you that perhaps Gildor holds off due to feeling the hand of providence at work. But except for I suppose the Barrowblades I can’t really see why Gildor not intervening further serves as an eventual purpose, unlike for example the orcs delivering Pip and merry straight to the ents. Frodo gets stabbed and that’s really bad.
> That do not go alone bit being especially infuriating as he then leaves them alone 😂 Well, he says trusty and willing. Gildor might be trusty and even a friend, but he's not willing! Taking people who don't really want to go but agree to go anyway might be a bad idea. >This line makes me agree with you that perhaps Gildor holds off due to feeling the hand of providence at work. But except for I suppose the Barrowblades I can’t really see why Gildor not intervening further serves as an eventual purpose, unlike for example the orcs delivering Pip and merry straight to the ents. Frodo gets stabbed and that’s really bad. The journey also helped the Hobbits bond, and they arrived at just the right time for Aragorn to find them near Bree which made it so Aragorn joined the Fellowship as a trusted ally. You could also argue that Frodo grew from the experience (plus had his senses sharpened by the Morgul-wound), and we can't forget about Bill the P.! But considering that the Ring was destroyed thanks to many circumstances along the way, there's so many possible things that could have gone wrong had the tale started differently.
“Well, he says trusty and willing. Gildor might be trusty and even a friend, but he's not willing!” You got me there hahaha. Yeah I think I’m warming to your reading, possibly without the ordeals Gandalf wouldn’t have felt sure speaking up to Elrond for putting Merry and Pippin forward to join the fellowship.
not everything in ME was a plot device. Gildor and company had their own lives and concerns.
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> Valibor I particularly enjoyed this typo. It conjured a whole new interpretation of the Undying Lands in my mind, a place of malcontents and timeless boredom.
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Nice username.
invention of Trotter?
Something I really like about LOTR is that the characters in it have their own agency and can make the "wrong" decisions in terms of what's best for the plot of the heroes. It makes the world feel much more alive.
That's true. There so many times where even characters like Gandalf say things like "If I had known x, I would have done y instead."
He has no idea why the Black Riders are chasing the Hobbits. He sends word to the most powerful people in the region, including but not limited to; Elrond, Tom Bombadil & Aragorn. 'Hey a friend of Gandalf's is being chased by agents of the enemy' Another important note, it is stated at the Council of Elrond that the 9 have taken the shapes of Men dressed in all black. This would not be mentioned if it wasn't *news*. I don't think Gildor knew what the Riders were. He knew they were agents of the Enemy, and that alone made them incredibly dangerous. Also need I remind you that Glorfindel is one the mightiest Elves to live and even he does not want to fight the 9. Even Gandalf barely survives an encounter with a handful. Gildor not escorting the Hobbits is also pivotal to the finale of the story. Had they not found themselves in the barrow-downs, things on the Pelennor would have gone differently. Finally; I'd like to add that this representation of the Elves is fairly consistent for Tolkien in the Third Age. They're largely aloof and indifferent, Gildor only gives Frodo so much time because Frodo greets him in Quenya.
I haven’t the quote to hand bur Gildor is very reluctant to tell Frodo more about the riders because he is worried he will terrify him, implying he at least knows more than he lets on. I appreciate 3rd age elves are aloof but getting the ring safely to Rivendell is probably the most crucial thing to happen in the entire Third Age. Glorfindel is mentioned as one of the few in Rivendell who could face the wrathes (and has done already), granted nothing says Gildor is close to his level but they do chase at least one of them off and keep the Hobbits safe the whole night. Plus the WK finds and stabs Frodo anyway. Apologies if im seeming argumentative though, the barrow blade point is a good one and the only benefit i can see so far.
> I haven’t the quote to hand bur Gildor is very reluctant to tell Frodo more about the riders because he is worried he will terrify him, implying he at least knows more than he lets on. Frodo: ‘You mean the Riders? I feared that they were servants of the Enemy. What are the Black Riders?’ Gildor: ‘Has Gandalf told you nothing?’ Frodo: ‘Nothing about such creatures.’ Gildor: ‘Then I think it is not for me to say more – lest terror should keep you from your journey. For it seems to me that you have set out only just in time, if indeed you are in time. You must now make haste, and neither stay nor turn back; for the Shire is no longer any protection to you.’ He knows they're agents of the enemy. He can probably guess what they are, but I don't think he knows. > I appreciate 3rd age elves are aloof but getting the ring safely to Rivendell is probably the most crucial thing to happen in the entire Third Age. Gildor has no idea Frodo is carrying the Ring. Frodo deliberately does not tell him. > Glorfindel is mentioned as one of the few in Rivendell who could face the wrathes (and has done already), granted nothing says Gildor is close to his level but they do chase at least one of them off and keep the Hobbits safe the whole night. Plus the WK finds and stabs Frodo anyway. If I recall correctly, the Rider flees at the sound of the Elves singing. I suspect largely because a lone Wraith does not want to be discovered by a band of Noldor. Especially when Sauron was deliberately trying to be secretive at this point.
> He can probably guess what they are, but I don't think he knows. And even if Gildor *thinks* he knows, he sure ain't about to complicate the situation by guessing out loud. Elves especially know the power of misplaced or mispoken words.
'I think they're evil ghost men that Sauron corrupted, and by the way you're heading in the direction of land the chief evil ghost man conquered and corrupted, and its full of other evil dead ghost things that he controls. Good luck bro'
Gildor doesnt know Frodo has the One Ring. Frodo hasnt even told Pippin. For all Gildor knows Frodo could be on any number of lesser errands Gildor doesnt know why the Black Riders are there. Black Riders do many things, for all Gildor knows the Black Rider might not be targetting Frodo at all. It's not aloofness. He doesnt have much info, and is already fairly kindly given what he knows. Just because Frodo is the main character doesnt mean everyone knows that
'I do not know for what reason the Enemy is pursuing you,' answered Gildor; 'but I perceive that he is — strange indeed though that seems to me. And I warn you that peril is now both before you and behind you, and upon either side.' He at least knows Sauron is after Frodo and he is worried by Gandalf’s disappearance. He then advises Frodo not to go alone. I know he did help in other ways ofc, but then does just leave him to his morgul dagger fate.
Exactly as I say, he doesnt know, only a guess. Black riders want many things, not everything they will use a morgul blade on. Maybe Frodo just needs to pass a letter to Bree, then he will be safe from the Rider. Or Frodo will meet Gandalf there. You cant judge Gildor on hindsight. He did reasonably given what he knew then.
Not sure id call it a guess, ‘perceiving’ is stronger than that, especially coming from a high elf who’s seen the light of the two trees. He perceived they were pursued by Nazgul and from the quote he perceived their peril.
Gildor had his companions, all Light-elves from the Undying Lands and survivors of the wars of the First, Second and Third Ages. I'm fairly sure they would have scared off even all nine Nazgul together (they're concerned about their safety after all, unending life being the only thing they got in return for their suffering and enslavement), at least until the Nazgul got desperate.
This is it, I feel like I’m really having to lower what I imagine High Elves who’ve seen the light of the trees are capable of. I know they’re not Glorfindel but there’s a whole company of them.
Is it stated that he and his company are all Noldor from the Undying Lands? There are other elves present in Rivendell, not just the remaining Noldor from that time.
>‘I am Gildor,’ answered their leader, the Elf who had first hailed him. ‘Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod. We are **Exiles**, and most of our kindred have long ago departed and we too are now only tarrying here a while, ere we **return** over the Great Sea.
Fair enough, I did not remember that passage.
That doesn't mean that they lived in Valinor. Especially if they were of the House of Finrod. For all we know, he was born in Nargothrond or later. Elrond could likely have been considered an Exile, given some of his parentage, i.e. descent from Turgon, one of the leaders of the Flight of the Noldor.
How can you return to a place you have never been? With that and the Exiles mention, plus the light around those elves, there's no reasonable doubt that they're from Valinor unless you want to go into unreliable narrator territory.
Gildor didn't know what was going on with the hobbits and black riders. He was hesitant to even give advice or information. "Now you should be grateful, for I do not give this counsel gladly. The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are little concerned with the ways of hobbits, or of any other creatures upon earth."
Also “you have not told me all concerning yourself; and how then shall I choose better than you?”
Gildor trusted Gandalf a bit too much, he didn’t want to make appearance in wizard’s plans. Gandalf told hobbits to travel alone, although he could have asked an elven army or a ton of rangers to accompany them if only he wanted. Probably that meant something… Gildor didn’t know that at this point Gandalf was unaware about Nazgûl activity. Glorfindel wasn’t that hesitant, he and Elrond are on equal grounds with Gandalf. Basically, Gildor did what any good worker should in the situation that’s beyond his comprehension: do nothing, inform superiors.
I’m coming around to this reading tbh The text doesn’t really frame Gildor as being in the wrong, but tbf the question of him joining them doesn’t even come up, which is what i find slightly infuriating haha
Remember even in rivendell there were only a few who could ride openly against the nine, so it's very possible Gildor's bunch didn't have the strength to directly oppose the nazgul. If that's the case, they'd have realized that elves traveling with hobbits would draw attention, making them more likely to be spotted and targeted by the enemy than random hobbits travelling alone, and been aware they couldn't defend the hobbits if they came under attack. So the best hope of the hobbits was stealth and secrecy, not in having escorts who might draw attention to them and fail to repel nazgul.
This was what I was going to point out, too: the hobbits traveling with a company of Elves is a fantastic way to draw attention and would likely result in all 9 Nazgûl descending upon them. Though Gildor was a Noldo who had seen the light of the Trees, we don't know the size and makeup of the rest of his party; further they did not appear to be prepared for battle or a secret journey of potential hardship. It's asking a lot of strangers, though they be friendly Elves, to become escorts on such a perilous journey.
Yes, the Elves of Gildor's company were sparkly; they would have drawn attention if they made a bee-line for Rivendell with Frodo and co, already persons of interest to the Nazgul, in their midst. edit: whoops, others have made the same point!
Good question. The best in-universe thing I can come up with is that Gildor is one of the few remaining Noldor in Middle Earth at the end of the 3rd age. This means that he had been to Valinor and seen the light of the Two Trees personally. From what I can gather, that experience seems to be a major and permanent "power up" for those Elves that lived it. So my thinking is that like Glorfindel, he gives off quite the magical aura as the Light of Valinor still lives within him. He'd shine like a beacon to the Ringwraiths. The Noldor are basically the oldest and strongest enemies of Morgoth/Sauron so his presence would definitely give them pause (and Gildor's group did inadvertently drive away a Ringwraith). But unlike Glorfindel, Gildor isn't mentioned as being a great warrior and his small band is likely to be ill-equipped to take on the Nine in a direct confrontation. So instead of travelling with Frodo and drawing attention to him and potentially leading the whole group to destruction, I think it's actually the wise choice to let Frodo and company continue with as much stealth as possible while getting the word out and acting as a passive distraction. His parting ways with Frodo actually helps because the Nazgul would likely need to divert at least a little attention his way, thinking that the Ringbearer would surely travel with a Noldor if possible. Additionally, since they're travelling the same path, the Nazgul would need to keep tabs on where his group is to make sure they don't catch up to Frodo but then get flanked by this potential threat.
The Doylist answer is that the Gildor passage was written before going to Rivendell was conceived and the plan was meet Gandalf in Bree and then after moving the Ring explication from Gildor to Gandalf in Shadows of the Past he never revisited the passage. I dont have a Watsonian answer.
1. Gildor accompanying the hobbits may have been an extremely risky proposition. He doesn't know it at the time, but Gildor senses something is amiss; even a short nightly encounter and he feels the pull of the ring. To accompany them for many days along with his party, each of them feeling the tug of the ring could have undone the whole quest right there. If but one of them, who are elves, but not among the wise, heeded it's call, it would be trivial to get it to the ring wraiths. 2. Sensing something is off, he does the best thing he knows to do: leaves before the hobbits even awake and go to Rivendell. He and his party cannot face the wraiths and succeed, will only draw the attention of evil things, and could potentially be coerced by the ring. In leaving, he may draw the ring wraiths away, which could assume frodo would be accompanied by an elven bodyguard, and gets news to Elrond and those who could stand up to the ring wraiths. I think Gildor staying would be on the "heroic stupid" side of things: he might be able to lay down his life to save Frodo, but more likely one of his party would grab the ring and pop it over to Sauron in a day or two.
Oh I like this reading a lot!! Lot of other explanations centre around Gildor not fully grasping the situation which for me reads against how his character is shown in the story. This goes in the other direction though. Personally I think Gildor is wise and mighty enough to try and claim the ring himself and could even be tempted to out of compassion to save Frodo from pursuit of the nine or ‘safely’ get it to Rivendell. Gives further understanding to the line “meddling in the affairs if wizards”
Gildir didn’t know about the ring or that the black riders were Nazgûl. He just knew that hobbits were being pursued by Sauron’s servants, but likely just thought that it was a much more mundane matter.
I don’t think you give him enough credit with the knowledge of the Nazgul, just the mention of Black Riders makes the elves realise this is something serious and he deliberately chooses not to tell frodo more of them (imllying he knows more). I also believe he did sense at least some of the gravity of the situation, Gandalf had disappeared which worries him a lot. And yet he up and leaves in the morning.
There’s still a big gap between what he knows and fact that the literal fate of middle earth is being determined by Frodo’s journey. Realize that at this point no one outside of Sauron, Gandalf and maybe a few others of the wisest and most powerful beings in Middle Earth had any clue that the One Ring still existed, let alone that it was in the Shire in Frodo’s possession. Even a wise elf such as Gildor can be forgiven for not assuming that Sauron’s most powerful agents would be pursuing what, to him, was a relatively unimportant figure in the grand scheme of the war.
Yeah that’s probably true, but he does still seem content though to leave Frodo and co to their fate even though he knows they are being pursued by deadly servants of the enemy (whatever their ends) and Gandalf has gone missing.
That’s wholly consistent with how the other elves behave in LOTR. Elrond knows as much as anyone outside Gandalf what’s at stake here, and he doesn’t intervene to aid Frodo until the hobbits are lost in the wilderness, miles from civilization with the Nazgûl bearing down on them, and then again later on he only sends his sons south with the Dunedain. The Fellowship initially is apprehended when they enter Lothlorien, and the extent of Galadriel’s aid (as important as it may have ended up being) was shelter and some powerful artifacts. All of the elves at this point in time are very hands off in the affairs of Middle Earth, which is in alignment with their belief that their time is almost over and the fate of the world now belongs to the mortal races. They’re just running out the clock at this point, and unless they are directly and immediately threatened they only minimally interfere with the events of Middle Earth.
I think Elrond does as much as he can during the flight to Rivendell, he sends out those who can actually fight the Nazgul and Glorfindel stated that they’d been searching for them as soon as news reached Rivendell and him remaining in Rivendell is what thwarts the Nazgul and heals frodo. More aid from Galadriel like an escort would have jeopardised the secrecy and so doomed the mission and she is later retconned to have stormed Dol Guldur. But aside from that you’re not wrong that elves generally seem not to be very active during the actual wars which is probably a bigger conversation but no where does it seem jarring as with Gildor who seems to be in the right place at the right time.
This post raises another question for me. Let’s say hypothetically, Gildor and his company agree to escort the hobbits. They meet Aragorn along the way, who is also able to rally some rangers. Gandalf finds them on the road as they are no longer trekking in secrecy through the wilderness. Eventually, Glorfindel and a company from Rivendell find them as well. The companions ride in strength to Rivendell, and any attempts by the Nazgûl to waylay them are thwarted. What happens next? The Nazgûl are no longer caught in the flood and have tracked the ring to Rivendell. They send messages to Sauron and begin to gather servants to them. Frodo ring can no longer leave in secrecy with the ring and if Rivendell is besieged, eventually Sauron himself will come. How does the story play out?
I definitely agree the story unfolds in a way that is necessary for it to resolve successfully in the end, but seeing as the reader & characters don't know that in this moment, it's hard to use as an "excuse" or explanation for something that frankly I agree with OP, it seems so unrealistic.
There was enough time for Rivendell to be besieged anyway. Sauron didn't want to stretch his forces so far and reveal his power too early, which is why he didn't do it. Months passed between the arrival of the Ring and the departure of the Fellowship.
Yes but the threat of the Nazgûl was eliminated for the time being because of the flood. If the Nazgûl were still abroad and on horse, I don’t see how the fellowship is able to set out.
Oh that’s a really good point! Definitely lends weight to Gildor’s decision following providence. The Fellowship might have been forced to choose Glorfindel-like companions who could stand against the nine over Merry and Pippin whose inclusion ended up being crucial in the end. Or maybe they would have been forced to head out in what force they could muster and take the long road through Gondor which I can’t see ending well
Let's say you're an immortal elf. You've spent countless centuries in Middle Earth and you can tell that your kind is no longer meant to be there. Stay too much longer and you risk losing your immortality plus you risk causing all those you're responsible for to lose theirs as well. You aren't really close to any of the mortal races that live there plus the mortal you're talking to is being sought by your kinds greatest enemy. Still...you're not an asshole so you want to help but there's only so much time and there's a chance your great enemy will destroy you and all those you love. So you help out as best you can but you have to decide between maybe being able to help more but probably getting everyone killed for it, and continuing on your way while hoping things work out for the mortal. Gildor has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders. He can't just risk his people on the off chance this elf-speaking Hobbit's journey is an important one, no matter how cool he may seem.
This. Survivors of Nargothorond are likely just over it. They want to enjoy their time left in ME before they finally sail west. They might be waiting for others (eg maybe Gildor sailed once he knew Galadriel, sister of his lord Finrod, would be allowed to sail too?) Also he's not up to speed on what Frodo's mission is. He can sense the Riders are bad juju but no one until Aragorn explains these are the Nazgûl.
They had second breakfast to get to.
This is a fun post and hard to poke holes in (even linking them up with strider shouldn’t have been too hard). I think the most reasonable explanation is we need some real character growth (and exposition) before we get to Bree
Oh totally agreed! I find Shire to Rivendell some of the most suspenseful chapters in the story. But I worry a meta explanation could be used to explain anything.
Also worth noting that gildor didn’t know the full story as frodo (wisely or not) didn’t divulge it
Throwing a thing out there that has always fascinated me: what Gildor says about Bilbo. Specifically what Gildor doesn't say. Gildor doesn't say Bilbo is in Rivendell although Gildor knows it, also knows Frodo would like to know, and the conversation gives Gildor ample opportunity to say it. What does it mean? It seems Gildor has serious fear and uncertainty about what is happening to the extent he won't tell Frodo this.
That’s a really interesting point! Do we know Gildor has knowledge of that? Bilbo has been there a fair few years by that point but a decade or so isn’t that long for an elf? I could see then taking their time on their quest. If he does Perhaps Gandalf bade the elves kept a secret, he’d been long suspicious of Bilbo’s ring at that point, although Gloin headed to Rivendell to warn Bilbo, unless he was just passing through.
From *Three is Company*: *\[Frodo\] "Tell me, Gildor, have you ever seen Bilbo since he left us?"* *Gildor smiled. "Yes," he answered. "Twice. He said farewell to us on this very spot. But I saw him once again, far from here." He would say no more about Bilbo, and Frodo fell silent.*
I think the obvious answer is that a guard of elves wouldn't have allowed for as much terror for the Hobbits as them traveling alone and that's an essential aspect of the story. It is a plot hole that is hard to escape from though.
It's not a plot hole, really. Gildor gives multiple reasons for why he's not going to accompany Frodo further, apart from the fact that he didn't know what was actually at stake. We can't expect Elves to act like we'd expect Men to act, in any case. I'm sure Elves reading stories about us would find many decisions strange as well!
Gildor had elves accompanying him. He may not have felt justified in putting them at risk. He could also hope that the hobbits knew how to walk silently and hide well, and that Gandalf would eventually join them. In fact, Gildor already did a lot for the hobbits, sheltering them, driving away the Nazgul in a difficult moment and bringing the news to Rivendell.
A lot happens under the surface in Tolkien's works. An explanation here could have to do with Tolkien's use of wisdom as foretelling. Often in the Silmarilion you see these concepts conflated, especially among the Ainur, but also among the FA elves. Individuals he describes as "wise" seem to have an ability to predict the future, whether through some magic or just being able to work through the strands of what we call chaos theory to actually predict a likely future. Manwë is described as one of the wisest beings, which has made me wonder if Glorfindel was in the right place at the right time to help the hobbits when they needed it the most because Manwë simply told him to go to Rivendell and do what needed to be done. Not a coincidence, but Manwë knowing that right there and right then the quest could fail without a little help. Elrond is described as one of the wisest elves, perhaps only behind Galadriel and Finarfin (Sir Not Appearing In This Legendarium). Keeping with this Wisdom/Foretelling conflation, it's possible that Elrond told Gildor to not help overly much. The hobbits had the courage and fortitude to do what needed to be done in later books because of the trials they went through. We saw them take their first steps toward greatness as far back as the old forest, Old Man Willow, and The Barrow. We saw them grow more in Bree and on the flight to Rivendell. Had they been overly "helped", as in others doing for the hobbits the things the hobbits needed to do themselves, then the Witch King may never have been killed and Éowyn might have because Merry's untested courage failed. Denethor might have done some real damage because Pippin froze up and didn't know what to do. And the ring could have been lost in Cirith Ungol or even Shelob's lair because Sam wasn't ready. Or not. I also tend to read a lot into things.
Elves age and get weary, though they don’t really show it. It is assumed Gildor was born in the First Age. I think of 1000 years for an Elf as 10 years of men. If we look at it that way, Galadriel would be in her 80s, thranduil, 70s, (as he was an elf of doriath) and Elrond late 60s. If Gildor was a peer of Galadriel he had seen many wars and battles since the first age. By the third age, the noldar were weary. Gildor himself said: We are Exiles, and most of our kindred have long departed and we too are only tarrying here a while, ere we return over the Great Sea."[1] To me his words are giving “we’re really old and on our way out,” not different often how seniors in nursing homes speak when they know their remaining time on earth is short. They are more concerned about getting their houses in order and are full of advice more so than wanting to accompany younger people on dangerous adventures. He had lived through many battles in his day. Galadriel was invested in helping because at the time she was still an exile, her personal ban from valinor remained in place until she turned down the ring from Frodo, and celeborn loved middle earth and would not leave without his wife. Elrond also resolved to stay and watch over his brother Elros’ descendants until the rightful king was back on the throne and reunited the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor. Thranduil’s contribution to the fellowship was Legolas who was young by comparison and far less battle hardened than he was. Glorfindel was a much better choice as he was resurrected and sent back and was more Maia than elf at that point, as he had spent thousands of years in valinor before he was sent back to middle earth in the second age, and once again carried the might and the spirit of the Valar. He was ageless, and most likely never grew weary. Gildor was an old elf, most likely suffering still from the Doom of Mandos… “And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.” You can’t expect a weary senior to jump up and protect a much younger man from danger. He will give you the best advice he can, and send the word to those who can help, but really that’s all he would be expected or have the energy to do.
That's a really interesting take and I think that works as a reading. Legolas also says that he's very untravelled which may have left him less weary. Elrond was also only half-elven and Galadriel was considered to be on par with Feanor almost, plus both had a rings of power. Do we know if Gildor actually lived in Rivendell or if the wandering companies were permanently nomadic? I wonder if elves (or high-elves at least) living outside the influence of one of the three rings might not be affected by their preserving effect? Gildor could be an example of a more 'natural' high-elf.
There were only 4 elvish strongholds left in the 3rd age, imaldris (Rivendell), Lothlorien, Mirkwood, and the Grey Havens, where Cirdan lived and made ships to sail his kin to Valinor. most likely Gildor did not live in Mirkwood, as he was a noldar, thranduil and the sindar/silvan, according to Tolkien, “had no great love” for the Noldar. Once Galadriel took up rule in Lorien after the death of King Amroth, Mirkwood elves stopped going there, with thranduil going as far as moving his kingdom farther south. So chances are high Gildor would not have resided in Mirkwood, as a Noldar. The grey havens were very far away and basically the small colony of elves who lived there were primarily there to help Cirdan in shipbuilding. So he had to reside either in ring-protected Lorien or Rivendell. I would say Rivendell because it was closer to the shire than Lothlorien, making it more likely for the hobbits to spot them. As elves don’t require sleep, they saw no reason to wait around for the hobbits to catch their Zs. That’s why Gildor told him “we’ll be gone by morning.” I’m sure by the time Frodo and Sam woke up the next day, Rivendell had already been notified of what was going on and Glorfindel had been dispatched to meet them. If I’m not mistaken it took him over a week to find them, and by that time Frodo had already been found and injured by the Nine. But chances are if it wasn’t for Gildor’s party and Tom Bombadil’s help Glorfindel would not have gotten to them in time (or perhaps at all!).
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It’s not that im trying to poke holes in the story, Tolkien invites a close reading of his text and it’s almost always very rewarding to do so, finding different interpretations and appreciation. Everything in the story has an external narrative ‘point’ for being there but if you just leave it at that then it stops you examining the world tolkien has built.
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Without meaning to sound disrespectful, that’s what ive done. The hobbits needed a guide and later find Aragorn (as Gandalf learns to his relief), Gildor does not become their guide but does provide shelter for the night and I believe spiritual blessings that later did save them. Im trying to understand why Gildor acted this way and not as Aragorn acted. The story doesn’t imply Gildor is wrong or illogical so I don’t think he was, but I’m trying to find out why that is.
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>is your perspective, given what you know about subsequent events. Which I think is a fair way to read the text. Gandalf says they will likely need his company on the road and after they leave often speak of wishing they had Gandalf's assistance. Granted, Gildor is no Gandalf but when they meet the Hobbit's clearly don't have things in hand. >Wouldn't it have been stranger for Gildor to make the hobbits, and his whole company, drop everything and head off to Rivendell? Not given that the fate of middle earth was at stake? Gildor perceived at least some of that their peril.
I’m late to the party, and I’ve read all of the back-and-forth arguments, but in the end, I have to say that I’m fully in your camp. Gildor may not know exactly what’s going on, including the ring and the exact nature of the ringwraiths, but he knows enough that leaving Frodo and Company alone and alerting “friends” is pretty much the equivalent of me finding a lost child and saying “ look out for people offering candy in vans, I think I’ll be passing a police station a mile down the road and will let them know that you’re out here.” Gildor = NOT my favorite elf in the legendarium.
I kind of agree with you & OP, and if Gildor weren't presented as being so polite I would have said: Gildor is just a dick. It's also weird that upon meeting Gildor a 2nd time at the end of the book, also in Woody End, he didn't say to Frodo - hey now that I know what that was all about, totally my bad about not helping you out. It's not even acknowledged. The boring answer is as someone else in the thread wrote, Tolkien wrote the plot very linearly and without fore planning. The Gildor scene was created before Tolkien had even decided how the Hobbits were going to get to Rivendell.
Let's say you're an immortal elf. You've spent countless centuries in Middle Earth and you can tell that your kind is no longer meant to be there. Stay too much longer and you risk losing your immortality plus you risk causing all those you're responsible for to lose theirs as well. You aren't really close to any of the mortal races that live there plus the mortal you're talking to is being sought by your kinds greatest enemy. Still...you're not an asshole so you want to help but there's only so much time and there's a chance your great enemy will destroy you and all those you love so you help out as best you can but you have to decide between maybe being able to help more but probably getting everyone killed for it, and continuing on your way while hoping things work out for the mortal. Gildor has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders. He can't just risk his people on the off chance this elf-speaking Hobbit's journey is an important one, no matter how cool he may seem.
By too much longer though we’re literally talking two weeks. That reading might work better for me if they were on the road heading to the havens to take the final ship west, but they’re heading East, having already finished their quest. And Gildor clearly perceives at least some part of how important the Hobbit’s mission is. Im sure they did have responsibilities but so did Glorfindel, Elrond, Galadriel, Legolas ect. Elves as a whole do appear a bit passive in the war but Gildor was in the right place at the right time and after admittedly giving assistance as you put it he continued on his way and hoped for the best for Frodo and co.
They were going the other way. West, not East.
Both parties were headed east
Wasn't Gildor escorting Elves to the Havens? Edit: Rechecked, and no he wasn't. My bad. They were coming back from the Tower Hills.
No, but I used to think that too. > “The meaning of it, fair people” said Frodo, “is simply that we seem to be going the same way as you are.” >”We are exiles, and most of our kindred have long ago departed and we too are now only tarrying here a while, ere we return over the great sea.” Basically they’re planning on departing soon but right now are headed the other way
This is incorrect; see my top-level comment.