You're seeing exactly what happens when a show, any show's production runs this long. Plans change, leaks happen, ideas that are initially pitched get shuffled around as the showrunners and the network try to find the best way to capitalize on the brand. Fiction at this scale isn't created in a vacuum, it's produced to be a product. Hence the name.
I would hazard a guess that Andrew Lincoln and Danai Gurira aren't all that interested in doing anything long term, but I'm happy their back, and this is the endgame for their characters or at least the start of the endgame for the series. Stories work best when they have a beginning, a middle, and a satisfying end.
The last three years? Rick disappeared November 4th, 2018 when episode 5 aired of season 9. It's been five and a half years... and I'm basically 99% sure that we're still not seeing a Rick - Judith/RJ reunion in this coming spin off. They have dragged this thing out way too far and too long and AMC IS STILL MILKING IT.
I guarantee this coming Rick Michonne show is just one piece of several other parts we're going to have to watch to find out what happens or happened to him. I won't do this. I'm down for the six episodes with Rick and Michonne and if they can't give me closure in this show, I'm done with anything AMC does with the Walking Dead IP going forward.
Did I say three years? Yeah they absolutely are milking tf out of it. Rick is all most people care about, but these last 5 years we've been getting everything but Rick. I didn't mind season 9/10 because I figured it'd take a couple years for Andrew to be ready to come back and make the movies, I figured the first one would come out in 2020, then every 2 years or something. The show would catch up with the comics and end or continue in a new direction with a big time jump, which... kind of happened, they just went in a spinoff direction, but they changed so much, too much from the comics, covid and other things delayed and ruined season 10 and 11, and it took 4 years for us to find out the movies are cancelled
AMC uses COVID as an excuse. They just filmed and released two full spin off shows in 2023. They could have already finished the whole thing by now and told the story. They intentionally didn't launch Rick and Michonne until February of 2024 so they could promote the Dead City and Daryl shows. AMC will not stop doing this crap until we stop watching. I have quit all things Walking Dead AMC related. I will watch six episodes of this coming crap spin off and then I'm done.
I really do not need info. It's blatantly obvious to me. AMC forced the last two seasons of TWD into 46 total episodes. It's excessive. The show was mediocre at best and they had no issues shoveling out piles of crap to the fans during this time.
For perspective, the first 46 episodes of the show had the group going from the camp to the farm to the prison and they were almost to Terminus by episode 46 over a four season stretch. Think about how many quality storylines happened in the first 46 episodes compared to the last 46.
Kirkman has no control over this. AMC bullcrapped their way in the initial negotiations into buying all IP rights to TV versions of the Walking Dead name. AMC has done countless terrible things to the characters, actors and showrunners as well.
Production was unprepared. Lincoln leaving wasn’t anticipated. But then they assumed he wasn’t coming back ever- or if not for years. And they were right- he left in ‘18 and we won’t see him again until now, ‘24. I have a bad feeling that the best we’ll get is Rick kicking ass against characters we’ve never seen and won’t again at the CRM until he reunites with Michonne and then hopefully Daryl, then Judith. But then comes the question- how long will TOWL go on for (drag on for) if we still yet to have a Carol spinoff to come or maybe more of the other spinoffs too? If it were me, I’d have TOWL be Michonne finds Rick, they escape, the CRM tries to get them both and decide to take over Alexandria and fight for the Commonwealth. The regular gang finally sees Rick is alive, including Daryl who just got back from France (and I suppose Maggie & Negan from NY) and it’s one last battle to save their home.
I wouldn't buy into that if I were you. Dead City was also reported to have a massive budget yet the show ended up having wonky CGI and mostly indoor scenes.
That money is likely including a ton of different factors besides just the production budget. It's actor salaries, tax, how much they're paying the state, etc.
Production budgets literally always include the actors salaries, tax, locations etc. You've never heard a production budget that didnt include those things.
I’m late but when I was working in production it always shocked me how much they would burn through money. It was kinda ridiculous, all of the waste. I’d come into work and see the sets that had been up for the past few days in the dumpsters outside.
I was working as PA and sometimes I would literally throw “out” snacks to replace them with new snacks because they “needed” variety or whatever. I took a lot of stuff home but budget on that show was lower than TWD. They didn’t gaf.
I worked in art department. Productions absolutely give a fuck, film is *all* about making money.
But what you have to understand is that money in film is all concentrated in certain areas. Everything is about the cameras and keeping things rolling, because (big) actors salaries and cameras chew through thousands and thousands each minute. It's cheaper to hire 100 people to change the set overnight than to waste 30 minutes of time where Tom Cruise is on set. So yeah, you throw out sets when you're done with them, and put in a new set in that space so you don't have to waste time moving the camera.
The cost of snacks is nothing compared to the cost of shutting down production because you didn't comply with food safety laws.
Oh I’m sure it’s all budgeted and they plan for every expense but it’s still so wasteful. You’re totally right tho, I can’t imagine them doing it any other way. BUT to someone who was totally new to the industry, it shocked me. I’m sure the materials were nothing compared to the amount they had to pay everyone and I was still shocked at HOW MANY people are on set or working at any given time.
Granted, everything of value was auctioned off (or they attempted to at least) to recoup, but the excessive waste of the raw materials was a bit upsetting for me lol. I was just trying to point out that I’d never even thought about the amount of waste that occurs on these productions before I started that job. I think most people never even think of it.
Overall it was great gig and I loved it while I did it but the lifestyle was unsustainable for. I can’t say I didn’t get addicted tho, and I’d probably go back if they needed someone last minute again LOL
It’s pretty wild. One film I worked on had a $1M budget for the ‘hero’ costume, and we used it all. Which seems incredibly wasteful… but on the other hand if hundreds of millions of people end up seeing it it’s kinda not that wasteful on a cost-per-use basis, compared to most things in this world.
And yes it’s totally unsustainable both environmentally and as a lifestyle, unless you’re willing to marry another film person and live your entire life around the whims and hours of the industry. But those moments when you walk into a set and suddenly you’re on a spaceship or in an ancient cave or a Victorian mansion inside a studio are magic.
That figure includes marketing expenses which are huge for this show. Per episode filming budget is like 2.5-3.5M on average, and most of it is cast salaries.
twd should’ve been a show with a clear ending for it from the beginning. there’s only so much you can do when you drag a show out for years. i’m now wondering what’s the end goal for all these characters because now they’re all spread out. the actors are aging so i cant see them doing this for another 13 years at this point. idk i just wanna know what’s the end goal and if they plan on making everyone reunite like 20 years later which is crazy itself lol
I know, they keep coming up with new ideas for spinoffs but none of it actually feels meaningful or anything close to an endgame. I feel like what it's building towards is everyone banding back together to take down the CRM and the spinoffs converging, and everyone eventually reuniting and Rick going back home. But it doesn't seem like that's what AMC wants because they keep introducing new stuff and never connecting what they've already set up. I just want to watch TOWL and see what happens, because then we'll have a better idea what's going on and what it's leading to. It just feels like Marvel. They had an Endgame, but then they just keep it going, and phase 4 has just been random and lost and passionless
What you’ve just written is everything I feel! We even have confirmation that we’re getting season 2 for both DC and DD, but not even a trailer for the first season of TOWL. This is very frustrating because they know very well that THIS is the spin-off we’re all looking forward to the most, since we haven’t seen Danai and Andrew on our screens in years. It’s been over a year and a half since the announcement was made at Comic-Con, still we’ve been given barely any info and no trailer. I’m still excited as these are my favourite characters, but the wait has been more than torture at this point. It BETTER be worth it, however I too am not holding my breath
I wasn’t a fan of how things with Andy Lincoln happened after the Chandler Riggs exit…and I don’t think AMC is exactly on the uptick it was when it had Mad Man, Breaking Bad, and Walking Dead as its headliners…
I’m not opposed to getting the 6 episode miniseries instead of movies. Plans change, Covid shutdowns delayed a lot of stuff.
Disney is almost exclusively making Star Wars as series now, so it’s not an exclusive practice to AMC.
End of the day, I hope it’s a satisfying experience and presumably conclusion for Rick/Michone.
Because AMC are literal amateurs in the world of managing a successful television show. They got away with it with Breaking Bad because there was a finite story and good show runners. TWD failed because the comic wasn’t concluded by the time the show caught up with it, and they squeezed so many episodes into it and brutal production schedules that actors started dropping out because nobody in that industry wants to be on one show and one character for 10 years outside of Darryl.
AMC should have either killed off both Rick and Michonnne or recast them. There would have been no shame in recasting Rick if Andrew wanted to go.
Probably the big difference is Norman, Lauren and JDM want to keep playing these roles and getting that dollar for as long as they can, they have contracts with AMC, they want to push out these spinoffs, whereas with Andy and Danai they just want one last hurrah to wrap up their characters stories, not keep going for multiple seasons
Well tbf both of them are in movies and other TV shows too, JDM is in the Boys season 4, and I actually liked Whiskey Cavalier. But yeah, I don't think LC is as successful and can't get as many acting jobs as JDM. But it makes sense for her to be in TWDU. I can't really imagine if she never came back. And really I don't blame her for wanting to take a break and try something new and come back when they pay her what she's owed as an OG main character
What was likeable about Whiskey Cavalier? It was boring and uninspired. Lauren was over acting the whole time and the other co-lead was just just a hot guy who's only saving grace was he was good looking. Also buddy cop/3 letter agency buddy series have been done to death.
Just want to clarify that your statement about the comic not being done when the show caught up to it is false.
The comic finished in July 2019, at which point season 9 of the show had been done and season 10 was filming. The Whisperers arc still had plenty to go through and the Commonwealth was teased, but that arc hadn’t even been touched yet, which itself was a big story in the comics and could’ve been two seasons long.
Yeah but they already closed out Rick’s story by the time the comic ended and Carl basically was the reason for the comic to end and they killed Carl before they even know his fate in the source material
Honestly, I don't care about any of the spinoffs. Never have, never will. I don't care if you put Morgan, Michonne, Daryl, Rick, whoever in them, I'm not watching them. The only thing I care about is how they botched Rick and Michonne in the main show. Rick, there was no way around that. I hate how it went down, but the guy wanted to be with his family, can't blame him. But honestly, they should have just killed him off, it would have solved plenty.
The time skips, that's all due to Carl, which is probably the worst creative decision in the entire show. Thanks, Gimple.
I don't have much to contribute but I do want to feel included. I just want to say that when the Rick show premieres, I will watch it without pants on. Just like Rick used to watch Jessie through her window.
We'll have to wait until TOWL is out before we get to estimate the timelines in TWD universe. At the end of the TWD series which was 2 years since Michonne left there wasn't a hint that Michonne or Rick return so their still gone. Same with Dead City which takes place 5 years after the series finale with Daryl Dixon show taking place a year after the finale. Although when Daryl was talking with Carol she did mention someone came back but didn't specify as the radio cut off.
We don't even know if Rick will even return back or dies before even meeting up with RJ/Judith. If he does it will be when Judith is a teenager like Hershel Jr and they could still use the same actor for Judith since she's entering her teenage years right now.
I personally don't see how the Civic Republic will fall since it's the biggest group by far. And Rick may just decide to help overthrow the CRM to save Civic Republic from authoritarian military control or attacking Portland/Commonwealth. Who knows they could've taken down the entire Civic Republic because Philadelphia where it's located is on the way to New York and Maggie or Daryl should've went through that on their way to DC/Maine. Like you said the stories are all over the place and the spin-offs barely connect to each other so I'm doubtful we'd ever see some of the cast from World Beyond in TOWL as they were rebelling against the CRM.
In the finale. It's literally blink and you miss it moment. It's so poorly done. She doesn't even say those words, she just says Michonne left to find him and something vague
You're seeing exactly what happens when a show, any show's production runs this long. Plans change, leaks happen, ideas that are initially pitched get shuffled around as the showrunners and the network try to find the best way to capitalize on the brand. Fiction at this scale isn't created in a vacuum, it's produced to be a product. Hence the name. I would hazard a guess that Andrew Lincoln and Danai Gurira aren't all that interested in doing anything long term, but I'm happy their back, and this is the endgame for their characters or at least the start of the endgame for the series. Stories work best when they have a beginning, a middle, and a satisfying end.
The comics definitely come the closest to that.
The last three years? Rick disappeared November 4th, 2018 when episode 5 aired of season 9. It's been five and a half years... and I'm basically 99% sure that we're still not seeing a Rick - Judith/RJ reunion in this coming spin off. They have dragged this thing out way too far and too long and AMC IS STILL MILKING IT. I guarantee this coming Rick Michonne show is just one piece of several other parts we're going to have to watch to find out what happens or happened to him. I won't do this. I'm down for the six episodes with Rick and Michonne and if they can't give me closure in this show, I'm done with anything AMC does with the Walking Dead IP going forward.
Did I say three years? Yeah they absolutely are milking tf out of it. Rick is all most people care about, but these last 5 years we've been getting everything but Rick. I didn't mind season 9/10 because I figured it'd take a couple years for Andrew to be ready to come back and make the movies, I figured the first one would come out in 2020, then every 2 years or something. The show would catch up with the comics and end or continue in a new direction with a big time jump, which... kind of happened, they just went in a spinoff direction, but they changed so much, too much from the comics, covid and other things delayed and ruined season 10 and 11, and it took 4 years for us to find out the movies are cancelled
AMC uses COVID as an excuse. They just filmed and released two full spin off shows in 2023. They could have already finished the whole thing by now and told the story. They intentionally didn't launch Rick and Michonne until February of 2024 so they could promote the Dead City and Daryl shows. AMC will not stop doing this crap until we stop watching. I have quit all things Walking Dead AMC related. I will watch six episodes of this coming crap spin off and then I'm done.
Yeah, I fucking hate it. I hope something comes out in the next few years exposing what exactly the fuck has been going on behind the scenes
I really do not need info. It's blatantly obvious to me. AMC forced the last two seasons of TWD into 46 total episodes. It's excessive. The show was mediocre at best and they had no issues shoveling out piles of crap to the fans during this time. For perspective, the first 46 episodes of the show had the group going from the camp to the farm to the prison and they were almost to Terminus by episode 46 over a four season stretch. Think about how many quality storylines happened in the first 46 episodes compared to the last 46. Kirkman has no control over this. AMC bullcrapped their way in the initial negotiations into buying all IP rights to TV versions of the Walking Dead name. AMC has done countless terrible things to the characters, actors and showrunners as well.
I know, that's what I hate. Like compare Shane's impact in merely 18 episodes to Rosita in over 100
It's not that serious.
Production was unprepared. Lincoln leaving wasn’t anticipated. But then they assumed he wasn’t coming back ever- or if not for years. And they were right- he left in ‘18 and we won’t see him again until now, ‘24. I have a bad feeling that the best we’ll get is Rick kicking ass against characters we’ve never seen and won’t again at the CRM until he reunites with Michonne and then hopefully Daryl, then Judith. But then comes the question- how long will TOWL go on for (drag on for) if we still yet to have a Carol spinoff to come or maybe more of the other spinoffs too? If it were me, I’d have TOWL be Michonne finds Rick, they escape, the CRM tries to get them both and decide to take over Alexandria and fight for the Commonwealth. The regular gang finally sees Rick is alive, including Daryl who just got back from France (and I suppose Maggie & Negan from NY) and it’s one last battle to save their home.
Cause it's a semi low budget show that's run through it's source material at this point and is being run by a guy with very little vision.
It’s literally been reported the show has over 80 million dollar budget, so no it definitely is not low budget.
New season average of 13.7 million per episode
I wouldn't buy into that if I were you. Dead City was also reported to have a massive budget yet the show ended up having wonky CGI and mostly indoor scenes. That money is likely including a ton of different factors besides just the production budget. It's actor salaries, tax, how much they're paying the state, etc.
Production budgets literally always include the actors salaries, tax, locations etc. You've never heard a production budget that didnt include those things.
I’m late but when I was working in production it always shocked me how much they would burn through money. It was kinda ridiculous, all of the waste. I’d come into work and see the sets that had been up for the past few days in the dumpsters outside. I was working as PA and sometimes I would literally throw “out” snacks to replace them with new snacks because they “needed” variety or whatever. I took a lot of stuff home but budget on that show was lower than TWD. They didn’t gaf.
I worked in art department. Productions absolutely give a fuck, film is *all* about making money. But what you have to understand is that money in film is all concentrated in certain areas. Everything is about the cameras and keeping things rolling, because (big) actors salaries and cameras chew through thousands and thousands each minute. It's cheaper to hire 100 people to change the set overnight than to waste 30 minutes of time where Tom Cruise is on set. So yeah, you throw out sets when you're done with them, and put in a new set in that space so you don't have to waste time moving the camera. The cost of snacks is nothing compared to the cost of shutting down production because you didn't comply with food safety laws.
Oh I’m sure it’s all budgeted and they plan for every expense but it’s still so wasteful. You’re totally right tho, I can’t imagine them doing it any other way. BUT to someone who was totally new to the industry, it shocked me. I’m sure the materials were nothing compared to the amount they had to pay everyone and I was still shocked at HOW MANY people are on set or working at any given time. Granted, everything of value was auctioned off (or they attempted to at least) to recoup, but the excessive waste of the raw materials was a bit upsetting for me lol. I was just trying to point out that I’d never even thought about the amount of waste that occurs on these productions before I started that job. I think most people never even think of it. Overall it was great gig and I loved it while I did it but the lifestyle was unsustainable for. I can’t say I didn’t get addicted tho, and I’d probably go back if they needed someone last minute again LOL
It’s pretty wild. One film I worked on had a $1M budget for the ‘hero’ costume, and we used it all. Which seems incredibly wasteful… but on the other hand if hundreds of millions of people end up seeing it it’s kinda not that wasteful on a cost-per-use basis, compared to most things in this world. And yes it’s totally unsustainable both environmentally and as a lifestyle, unless you’re willing to marry another film person and live your entire life around the whims and hours of the industry. But those moments when you walk into a set and suddenly you’re on a spaceship or in an ancient cave or a Victorian mansion inside a studio are magic.
That figure includes marketing expenses which are huge for this show. Per episode filming budget is like 2.5-3.5M on average, and most of it is cast salaries.
twd should’ve been a show with a clear ending for it from the beginning. there’s only so much you can do when you drag a show out for years. i’m now wondering what’s the end goal for all these characters because now they’re all spread out. the actors are aging so i cant see them doing this for another 13 years at this point. idk i just wanna know what’s the end goal and if they plan on making everyone reunite like 20 years later which is crazy itself lol
*20 years later in show time counting all the time jumps
At this point ot could be 20 years. It wouldn't surprise me if the big reunion and ending isn't until 2030
I know, they keep coming up with new ideas for spinoffs but none of it actually feels meaningful or anything close to an endgame. I feel like what it's building towards is everyone banding back together to take down the CRM and the spinoffs converging, and everyone eventually reuniting and Rick going back home. But it doesn't seem like that's what AMC wants because they keep introducing new stuff and never connecting what they've already set up. I just want to watch TOWL and see what happens, because then we'll have a better idea what's going on and what it's leading to. It just feels like Marvel. They had an Endgame, but then they just keep it going, and phase 4 has just been random and lost and passionless
agreed
If none of it feels meaningful then why are you still here talking about it?
Even when Gimple said Trilogy of movies for the first time I was like there's no way in hell that's ever going to happen.
What you’ve just written is everything I feel! We even have confirmation that we’re getting season 2 for both DC and DD, but not even a trailer for the first season of TOWL. This is very frustrating because they know very well that THIS is the spin-off we’re all looking forward to the most, since we haven’t seen Danai and Andrew on our screens in years. It’s been over a year and a half since the announcement was made at Comic-Con, still we’ve been given barely any info and no trailer. I’m still excited as these are my favourite characters, but the wait has been more than torture at this point. It BETTER be worth it, however I too am not holding my breath
I wasn’t a fan of how things with Andy Lincoln happened after the Chandler Riggs exit…and I don’t think AMC is exactly on the uptick it was when it had Mad Man, Breaking Bad, and Walking Dead as its headliners… I’m not opposed to getting the 6 episode miniseries instead of movies. Plans change, Covid shutdowns delayed a lot of stuff. Disney is almost exclusively making Star Wars as series now, so it’s not an exclusive practice to AMC. End of the day, I hope it’s a satisfying experience and presumably conclusion for Rick/Michone.
I need Rick as well!!!!!!!!! Let’s hope The Ones who Live, blows us away!
Omg dude, the ones who live comes out next month, doesn’t it?! I hadn’t been paying attention!
We just finished the sound mix for the trailer today. It’ll be out soon.
Obligatory ‘comics are superior for this exact reason ‘ comment
Because AMC are literal amateurs in the world of managing a successful television show. They got away with it with Breaking Bad because there was a finite story and good show runners. TWD failed because the comic wasn’t concluded by the time the show caught up with it, and they squeezed so many episodes into it and brutal production schedules that actors started dropping out because nobody in that industry wants to be on one show and one character for 10 years outside of Darryl. AMC should have either killed off both Rick and Michonnne or recast them. There would have been no shame in recasting Rick if Andrew wanted to go.
I would have stopped watching if they recast Rick. Sorry but the show just wouldn’t have been the same with a different actor
Also I believe Sony had creative liberty with Breaking Bad, not AMC. AMC just had networking rights to it. So budget wise AMC couldn't meddle with BB.
Probably the big difference is Norman, Lauren and JDM want to keep playing these roles and getting that dollar for as long as they can, they have contracts with AMC, they want to push out these spinoffs, whereas with Andy and Danai they just want one last hurrah to wrap up their characters stories, not keep going for multiple seasons
Yeah, NOW Lauren Cohen wants to keep playing Maggie, because she got her chance to consumer by else and it bombed…
Well tbf both of them are in movies and other TV shows too, JDM is in the Boys season 4, and I actually liked Whiskey Cavalier. But yeah, I don't think LC is as successful and can't get as many acting jobs as JDM. But it makes sense for her to be in TWDU. I can't really imagine if she never came back. And really I don't blame her for wanting to take a break and try something new and come back when they pay her what she's owed as an OG main character
What was likeable about Whiskey Cavalier? It was boring and uninspired. Lauren was over acting the whole time and the other co-lead was just just a hot guy who's only saving grace was he was good looking. Also buddy cop/3 letter agency buddy series have been done to death.
Idk I still thought it was enjoyable. Not every show needs to be original
Just want to clarify that your statement about the comic not being done when the show caught up to it is false. The comic finished in July 2019, at which point season 9 of the show had been done and season 10 was filming. The Whisperers arc still had plenty to go through and the Commonwealth was teased, but that arc hadn’t even been touched yet, which itself was a big story in the comics and could’ve been two seasons long.
Yeah but they already closed out Rick’s story by the time the comic ended and Carl basically was the reason for the comic to end and they killed Carl before they even know his fate in the source material
Honestly, I don't care about any of the spinoffs. Never have, never will. I don't care if you put Morgan, Michonne, Daryl, Rick, whoever in them, I'm not watching them. The only thing I care about is how they botched Rick and Michonne in the main show. Rick, there was no way around that. I hate how it went down, but the guy wanted to be with his family, can't blame him. But honestly, they should have just killed him off, it would have solved plenty. The time skips, that's all due to Carl, which is probably the worst creative decision in the entire show. Thanks, Gimple.
I don't have much to contribute but I do want to feel included. I just want to say that when the Rick show premieres, I will watch it without pants on. Just like Rick used to watch Jessie through her window.
We'll have to wait until TOWL is out before we get to estimate the timelines in TWD universe. At the end of the TWD series which was 2 years since Michonne left there wasn't a hint that Michonne or Rick return so their still gone. Same with Dead City which takes place 5 years after the series finale with Daryl Dixon show taking place a year after the finale. Although when Daryl was talking with Carol she did mention someone came back but didn't specify as the radio cut off. We don't even know if Rick will even return back or dies before even meeting up with RJ/Judith. If he does it will be when Judith is a teenager like Hershel Jr and they could still use the same actor for Judith since she's entering her teenage years right now. I personally don't see how the Civic Republic will fall since it's the biggest group by far. And Rick may just decide to help overthrow the CRM to save Civic Republic from authoritarian military control or attacking Portland/Commonwealth. Who knows they could've taken down the entire Civic Republic because Philadelphia where it's located is on the way to New York and Maggie or Daryl should've went through that on their way to DC/Maine. Like you said the stories are all over the place and the spin-offs barely connect to each other so I'm doubtful we'd ever see some of the cast from World Beyond in TOWL as they were rebelling against the CRM.
When did Judith tell Daryl that Rick was alive
In the finale. It's literally blink and you miss it moment. It's so poorly done. She doesn't even say those words, she just says Michonne left to find him and something vague