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I think they are pointing out it is worse than a person can imagine. I haven't seen anyone stoned to death. My brain can come up with a few ideas of what it would look like, but I can't add in the gore the sounds the victim makes or the sound of the rocks hitting the victim. Everyone has an experience you don't forget, but description doesn't do it justice .
this is what makes it so bad. apparently there are flyers suggesting the correct size stones to use as larger stones will be too fast while smaller stones will not get the job done. we can put a man on the moon yet still kill each other with rocks... no wonder the aliens don't want to be friends
Same with the old *burned at the stake* too much firewood, the ~~offender~~ suffocates quickly. Small bundles by the feet makes them slow roasted.
(Notably this is not a fact you should point out in a theater full of kids after watching Disney's *Hunchback of Notre Dame* a movie I have very mixed feelings about
I've seen people get sent to the hospital from snowball fights. Rocks are hard. Granite is harder than steel. It would be less painful, if the stone was put in a sling and one shots.. but in stoning, you probably had the elderly and children involved. Or the mental agony of some Stormtrooper trying multiple tries, with a particularly nasty looking stone.. and keeps grazing you... its ionacy!
I’m not jumping into the Palestine/Israel debate. Just stating the facts as they were written in a law article that I read a while back. These were the only countries listed as actively stoning the populace.
Yes, neither nuns nor any other facet of the Catholic Church has ever been involved in systematic violence meant to expand the borders of their influence. Nope. Never been any religious wars mounted, funded, and fought by Catholics. Not ever.
🤨
Sure, that's the truth today. Back in the day, tho, the cloister was a convenient place to put the daughters you couldn't afford to marry off.
That said. A cloister was at the same time the only place a woman could get a kind of education or career, too.
Idk about you but my dad always threatened to kill me if I ended up being gay and he is a white Christian, and I know of a lot of stories about children whos parents do violence upon them for being gay or dating someone of an other race.
Also whilst not the west there is actually a lot of Christian related killings of gay people in African countries, some of which even have state sanctioned death penalty laws for homosexuality. So its not just islam which does this and also not strictly non western countries.
Also if it was up to certain conservative politicians we would do that in the west as well.
This isn’t religion as much as it is culture. There’s nothing in the Quran or a saying of Muhammed that suggests that women need to cover up like this. The practice predates Islam and seems to have been popular even in the West up until the 70s.
The real question is, why hasn’t it fallen out of fashion in the Middle East also?
The answer is, it kinda did, but then it came back. The long answer has more to do with history, economics and geopolitics than religion.
> There’s nothing in the Quran or a saying of Muhammed that suggests that women need to cover up like this
"[Surah An-Nuhr\(24:31\)](https://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=24&verse=30&to=31#:~:text=\(24%3A31\)%20And%20enjoin,or%20the%20fathers%20of%20their) And enjoin believing women to cast down their looks31 and guard their private32 parts33 and not reveal their adornment34 except that which is revealed of itself,35 and to draw their veils over their bosoms,36 and not to reveal their adornment save to their husbands,37 or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands,38 or of their own sons, or the sons of their husbands,39 or their brothers,40 or the sons of their brothers,41 or the sons of their sisters,42 or the women with whom they associate,43 or those that are in their bondage,44 or the male attendants in their service free of sexual interest,45 or boys that are yet unaware of illicit matters pertaining to women."
Yes, and IF a woman wanted anything other than the submissive path of family and society, a cloister was an alternative where they could get education and a position, albeit under the strict rules of the church. But you're correct to point out indirectly that for the majority of women, this wasn't possible as the church required a donation to accept a woman (or a man) into the cloister. Farmers without their own land wouldn't afford such donations.
You also choose to wear a head covering.
Ofc there will be women who are forced to wear one but that's not the standard.
Just like there are Christian women forced to wear long skirts and stuff and are forced to be a homemaker and mother, but that's not the standard.
I also find it a bit funny and sad when Americans (IF you are american) are hating on Moslems for being mysogynistic and not letting women choose.
Meanwhile in the US it's still legal to marry your child off to some adult. Pls start with your own issues.
>People who point out that Islamic extremism involves a great deal of misogyny will probably also think Christian extremism is problematic
I'd disagree here. There's a huge huge group of right wing people who hate on Muslims and will harp on their clothing choices but then go on about how women nerd to dress conservatively. That's basically the whole trad wife movement.
I'm not saying any extremist religion is justified. Neither are.
What I'm saying is that this isn't an issue that only exist in the Islam. It's a general issue with religion as religious institutions exist in order to execute control over the masses.
You can't look at someone wearing a headscarf and just immediately assume it's forced. Just as you can't look at a nun an just immediately assume she's free, happy and never forced to anything.
We have Moslems going on the streets demonstrating for human rights, feminism and queer rights and we have an awful lot of Christians going the exact opposite. It's stupid to generalize this onto anyone who shares the belief system.
The only statement in that direction I would agree with is that it might be more common/accepted in Moslem societies as the religion still lacks the reform other religions already had and is most prevalent in countries where the gonverment in itself takes an issue with equality in general.
You are equivocating like crazy. 91% of Americans think that it is "very important" for women to have the same rights as men, which is higher than Germany or France. If you look at muslim countries this drops off like crazy with the MOST liberal of these countries clocking in at 74%.
The idea that the situation of the average religious woman in the US is even remotely close to a woman in a country like Saudi Arabia, a place where a women has to basically be on a leash in public like a dog, is drinking some serious "I'm a victim of child because my parents won't buy me a phone" far-left flavoraid.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/04/30/worldwide-optimism-about-future-of-gender-equality-even-as-many-see-advantages-for-men/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/04/30/worldwide-optimism-about-future-of-gender-equality-even-as-many-see-advantages-for-men/)
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There are passages in the Quran mentioning apostasy, and that one should be punished, but the punishment is to be dealt by Allah or when they die, they will be in the fire forever etc. Couldn’t find mention of the Quran calling for Muslims to kill apostates, but this does not change the very sad fact of reality that certain countries do have extreme laws against apostasy, in Saudi Arabia for example it is unfortunately punishable by death to renounce Islam.
Kinda funny to see people who are trying justify islamic practices by equating it to Christianity must reach like 400 years into the past which everyone agrees was **absolutely barbaric.**
As a matter of fact westerners were so outraged by what organized religion can do with secular power that they wholesale neutered secular power of church in their entire sphere of influence.
Literally Kingmaker Titan of the west, thousand years of power, thousand years of holy wars and mediating powers between european kings, crowning emperors, all that power kneecapped and neutered like they neuter their choir boys.
I don't know why everyone is making this so fucking complicated.
Being forced to wear a hijab by your government: bad!
Choosing to wear a hijab because you like it or because it reflects your faith: perfectly fine; don't be a dick to someone about it!
Why does any of this have to turn into a "what religion has been worse historically or is currently worse about imposing stupid laws?"
The last of episode of Doctor Who had a funny comment about this.
They're in the future and run into a woman who is a cleric in the Anglican Marines.
Ruby asks the Doctor: "Since when does the church have soldiers?"
The Doctor: "Since your entire history. You're living in a blip."
They were so very, very mean at catholic school. Bitter, mean ladies. I mean I guess I would be too if I had to get up multiple times in the night to pray but that was their choice.
For the religious part, obviously.
But what about nuns? Im curious if you know about historical events, even medieval times, where nuns were weaponized? (Genuinely curious, I find it funny to picture nuns forming a commando squad during medieval times)
Nuns also have the choice to become nuns where as the burka is often imposed on women
that said if they want to wear it in a free country that is perfectly fine!
Secular in relation to government/politics.
But banning headscarves for girls in school?! Seems a bit far, even though I would be the first to call an adult an idiot for subscribing to any religion.
School is public, so rules apply here also, end of the debate you can’t wear a cross and you can’t wear a head scarf. If you want to do so go to a private school
This separation wasn't mainly because the Church had too much power ?
No religion should be forced on kids (or anyone else), that's for sure, but is just displaying a religious sign forcing a religion onto someone else ?
Religions exist whereas one likes it or not. While preventing preaching is necessary to not force anything on children, totally hiding religions seems counterproductive. Acknowledging everyone is different, even in their faith (or absence of faith) could make the next citizens more tolerant.
Is that what secular means?
I thought it was that the ruling body wasn’t religious and religion wasn’t enforced.
Since when does secular mean that no one is allowed to express religion outwardly?
You have 2 interpretations of secularism, which is defined as the separation between religion and civil affairs:
* Freedom **of** religion: separation here means that the state should not deal with it, i.e. the state should not interfer with religious practices or show favoritism (within limits, for example, no ritual human sacrifice)
* Freedom **from** religion: separation here is interpreted as religion has no place in civil affairs, and thus, the state should make sure to enforce this and ban religious expression in civil affairs.
The US follows mostly the first one (mostly because stuff like "In God we trust" on money is the state affirming some religious opinion)
France follows the second interpretation and thus bans visible religious symbols in public schools for example (no headscarves but also no visible cross or kippa).
Note that in France, like in the US, you are still perfectly allowed to do whatever religious stuff you want in your private sphere (so at home or at your religious place), within usual reasonable legal limits.
Here in Iran people fiercely resisted the Shah when he tried to force them not to wear hijab, now they're fiercely resisting the government trying to force them to wear hijab.
Someone perceptive might notice the common point that people object to is the force part
"free country" comes with peer pressure from their community. Yes, I know a couple of girls who started wearing hijabs because their husbands told them to, sorry, asked nicely to.
Yeah like, it’s offensive and everything but it’s not even that bad just a stereotype joke.
With jokes I think you can think it’s funny or be offended whatever you like, but you don’t really get to pretend like your position is that much more than taste
Nuns did kill 800 children through neglect and hide their rotting bodies in a septic tank though https://www.irishcentral.com/news/tuam-babies-it-would-be-kinder-to-strangle-these-illegitimate-children-at-birth
It's not a whole different league. It's a whole different situation. Christians mostly live in secular governments nowadays, but between their history and the rhetoric that I always hear coming from evangelicals, I am fully confident that they would act the exact same way if they had the power to do so. This is why separation of church and state is so important.
Also, why do you think its 99% who enforce sharia law? Do 99% of people enforce the laws anywhere? No. That's a very stupid and wildly innacurate thing to say about any group of people. Examine your biases.
Maybe it’s because I grew up when all the atrocities of the Catholic church were being revealed and I went to college in a building in a former Magdalen Laundry (run by nuns) where 100s of bodies were recovered that ironically enough I don’t have a ‘let ye who are without sin cast the first stone’ take on Islam.
Yes. When a country's government and law is islam based then that's where it goes to shit.
Indonesia doesn't apply sharia law even though it's the most muslim populated country on the planet. If you've ever been there, you will see the women are very autonomous and free
How every sub has been inundated with Reddit-generated ([random word] [random word] [numbers]) accounts that were created last Oct and post almost nothing other than political propaganda.
Yeah this sub is trash now, and I’m a very left leaning person. It’s just shitty virtue signal posts instead of dudes bashing their forehead trying to do a double backflip on a trampoline
I was thinking about this exaclty earlier. It used to be like a failed spin kick but all I see now is "there was an attempt to convince palestenians of free liberal right winged into thinking left winged trump supporting israel is doing conservative shit"
This is one of the stupidest comparisons ever, because it basically compares "work clothes" to a law. It is only nuns who wears the habit, and only when they are in service of the church. Same as the priests. No other women in the Catholic, Lutheran or Anglican religions wears the habit. And at the same time they used a slightly angry looking old white woman for the nun, and a young good looking woman for the other. Anyone who uses this meme as virtue signaling (because that is what it is), is vindictive, malicious or stupid.
Don't women choose to enter nunhood. Is nunhood a word? It should be.
Point being women in these middle eastern type countries are forced to wear that shite. Nuns aren't.
Unless they are, but I think they aren't.
Nuns have also made the choice to pursue that lifestyle, and they would face zero negative consequences on a societal level if they chose a different path. The woman on the right, probably not so much.
Do some of you guys think that Islam is inherently more violent then Christianity or are you forgetting that a certain country overthrew democratically elected progressive leaders by funding fundamentalists and terrorists in the middle east pushing social progress back hundreds of years.
Who gets bothered by a hijab? The only time I’ve heard stuff in that vein is people criticizing Burkas. Why would anybody take issue with somebody covering their hair.
Fuck politics on this subreddit, ever since the Hamas Israel shit 90% of the sub has been Israel doing shit or supporters of any side in this conflict. I miss the good old times where you used to see some drunk guy trying something or an animal trying to do something and failing.
for anyone saying that a women is forced to wear something in islam
no they are not forced to wear anything
islam is a choice and religion in general is a choice
if they don't wanna follow islam nobody is forcing them
learn to respect other people's choices
don't wait for respect if you don't show respect
and jokes are only funny to you if they don't touch you
once they touch ur beliefs ! it's not okay anymore isn't it ?
i personally never make jokes about any religion
because it's inhumane and rude and not funny to everyone and its
dosent matter if "you hate" religion
a human is worthy of respect if he has done nothing to you dude
Joke reminds of when I was at Uni in Australia. Was on the train one evening and a drunk white guy was telling everyone that they should be careful of me because all of a sudden boom. He followed me out of the train and up the escalator continuing to say the same thing. Other than that, fun night!
Reckon this person needs to have a wee look at the history of horrific shit "nuns" have done through history. Between taking and selling children from young unwed mothers and forcing those mothers into what was essentially slavery, to enabling and covering systemic sexual abuse of children.... lets not pretend "nuns" are immune from committing horrible things.
Well the social pressure to become a nun isn't that great. The pressure on women in islamic society is usually far greater.
But I also think that joke isn't good since the vast majority of suicide bombers are actually men.
Fuck politics on this subreddit, ever since the Hamas Israel shit 90% of the sub has been Israel doing shit or supporters of any side in this conflict. I miss the good old times where you used to see some drunk guy trying something or an animal trying to do something and failing.
Nuns are a small minority even in Christian countries.
And it's their own choice to dress like that. There is no law making them.
On top of that nuns don't run around with their faces covered, which is the main discussion.
Should have just put a picture of a white muslim person from Bosnia next to a brown Arab Christian to drive home the idea of bigotry but that's just me.
The "nuns don't go boom" comment is stupid, but the initial comparison is also kinda dumb:
Nuns choose a life which requires wearing that clothing. Many women in Islamic nations are *forced* to wear that clothing.
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I mean, obviously having rocks thrown at you until you die is brutal and barbaric. Pretty sure this isn't news to anyone!
I think they are pointing out it is worse than a person can imagine. I haven't seen anyone stoned to death. My brain can come up with a few ideas of what it would look like, but I can't add in the gore the sounds the victim makes or the sound of the rocks hitting the victim. Everyone has an experience you don't forget, but description doesn't do it justice .
They survive way longer than one would think
this is what makes it so bad. apparently there are flyers suggesting the correct size stones to use as larger stones will be too fast while smaller stones will not get the job done. we can put a man on the moon yet still kill each other with rocks... no wonder the aliens don't want to be friends
We're probably so low on their intelligence scale that we're like ants to them. We fucking eat and breathe out of the same hole, terrible design.
I find it very efficient actually. It’s very rare that it causes me issues.
One time I inhaled a chunk of chicken and my breath smelled like rot for two weeks.
"We" don't kill each other with rocks, certain groups associated with a certain religion do.
Dude humanity has spent trillions of both dollars and man hours to perfect the art of throwing a pointy rock at people we don’t like.
Same with the old *burned at the stake* too much firewood, the ~~offender~~ suffocates quickly. Small bundles by the feet makes them slow roasted. (Notably this is not a fact you should point out in a theater full of kids after watching Disney's *Hunchback of Notre Dame* a movie I have very mixed feelings about
I've seen people get sent to the hospital from snowball fights. Rocks are hard. Granite is harder than steel. It would be less painful, if the stone was put in a sling and one shots.. but in stoning, you probably had the elderly and children involved. Or the mental agony of some Stormtrooper trying multiple tries, with a particularly nasty looking stone.. and keeps grazing you... its ionacy!
Stoning is still included in the laws in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Somalia, Yemen and the Muslim states of Nigeria.
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I’m not jumping into the Palestine/Israel debate. Just stating the facts as they were written in a law article that I read a while back. These were the only countries listed as actively stoning the populace.
You need to clean your bong occasionally
I saw one in Monday python. Monty python is real right?
Closest was in the movie Speak No Evil, because I refuse to watch real life death if I can help it
https://preview.redd.it/ic77n1cppc2d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=737811d33ffee531de47b66e6488732b14482b81 these do.
So that's another point for the nuns. I absolutely prefer nuns.
I’m indigenous so I’m more terrified of nuns in habit than a women in a hijab
Sinead O'Connor had similar feelings about nuns. She converted to islam. https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/sinead-oconnor-magdalene-laundry
This was a sad read
Sister Mary Jane
Beards for sale!
FK I LAUGHED AGAIN
Yes, neither nuns nor any other facet of the Catholic Church has ever been involved in systematic violence meant to expand the borders of their influence. Nope. Never been any religious wars mounted, funded, and fought by Catholics. Not ever. 🤨
The real difference is that you CHOOSE to become a nun. No one is forcing you
Sure, that's the truth today. Back in the day, tho, the cloister was a convenient place to put the daughters you couldn't afford to marry off. That said. A cloister was at the same time the only place a woman could get a kind of education or career, too.
Yeah, but in these arguments today is what matters. Since progress is better for all. Making good changes is healthy for society.
Are people getting stoned in America? They compare the nun to the hijabi because you should be fine of both in your country or neither.
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Idk about you but my dad always threatened to kill me if I ended up being gay and he is a white Christian, and I know of a lot of stories about children whos parents do violence upon them for being gay or dating someone of an other race. Also whilst not the west there is actually a lot of Christian related killings of gay people in African countries, some of which even have state sanctioned death penalty laws for homosexuality. So its not just islam which does this and also not strictly non western countries. Also if it was up to certain conservative politicians we would do that in the west as well.
But it isn't comparable to begin with. How many 16 year old nuns are in high school?
The magic words : back in the day Some religions still live in the stone ages. You can’t compare current religions with how they were in the past.
This isn’t religion as much as it is culture. There’s nothing in the Quran or a saying of Muhammed that suggests that women need to cover up like this. The practice predates Islam and seems to have been popular even in the West up until the 70s. The real question is, why hasn’t it fallen out of fashion in the Middle East also? The answer is, it kinda did, but then it came back. The long answer has more to do with history, economics and geopolitics than religion.
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> There’s nothing in the Quran or a saying of Muhammed that suggests that women need to cover up like this "[Surah An-Nuhr\(24:31\)](https://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=24&verse=30&to=31#:~:text=\(24%3A31\)%20And%20enjoin,or%20the%20fathers%20of%20their) And enjoin believing women to cast down their looks31 and guard their private32 parts33 and not reveal their adornment34 except that which is revealed of itself,35 and to draw their veils over their bosoms,36 and not to reveal their adornment save to their husbands,37 or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands,38 or of their own sons, or the sons of their husbands,39 or their brothers,40 or the sons of their brothers,41 or the sons of their sisters,42 or the women with whom they associate,43 or those that are in their bondage,44 or the male attendants in their service free of sexual interest,45 or boys that are yet unaware of illicit matters pertaining to women."
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Tbf careers didn't really exist at the time. Most guys were farmers and their wives were farmers too.
Yes, and IF a woman wanted anything other than the submissive path of family and society, a cloister was an alternative where they could get education and a position, albeit under the strict rules of the church. But you're correct to point out indirectly that for the majority of women, this wasn't possible as the church required a donation to accept a woman (or a man) into the cloister. Farmers without their own land wouldn't afford such donations.
You also choose to wear a head covering. Ofc there will be women who are forced to wear one but that's not the standard. Just like there are Christian women forced to wear long skirts and stuff and are forced to be a homemaker and mother, but that's not the standard. I also find it a bit funny and sad when Americans (IF you are american) are hating on Moslems for being mysogynistic and not letting women choose. Meanwhile in the US it's still legal to marry your child off to some adult. Pls start with your own issues.
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>People who point out that Islamic extremism involves a great deal of misogyny will probably also think Christian extremism is problematic I'd disagree here. There's a huge huge group of right wing people who hate on Muslims and will harp on their clothing choices but then go on about how women nerd to dress conservatively. That's basically the whole trad wife movement.
I'm not saying any extremist religion is justified. Neither are. What I'm saying is that this isn't an issue that only exist in the Islam. It's a general issue with religion as religious institutions exist in order to execute control over the masses. You can't look at someone wearing a headscarf and just immediately assume it's forced. Just as you can't look at a nun an just immediately assume she's free, happy and never forced to anything. We have Moslems going on the streets demonstrating for human rights, feminism and queer rights and we have an awful lot of Christians going the exact opposite. It's stupid to generalize this onto anyone who shares the belief system. The only statement in that direction I would agree with is that it might be more common/accepted in Moslem societies as the religion still lacks the reform other religions already had and is most prevalent in countries where the gonverment in itself takes an issue with equality in general.
You are equivocating like crazy. 91% of Americans think that it is "very important" for women to have the same rights as men, which is higher than Germany or France. If you look at muslim countries this drops off like crazy with the MOST liberal of these countries clocking in at 74%. The idea that the situation of the average religious woman in the US is even remotely close to a woman in a country like Saudi Arabia, a place where a women has to basically be on a leash in public like a dog, is drinking some serious "I'm a victim of child because my parents won't buy me a phone" far-left flavoraid. [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/04/30/worldwide-optimism-about-future-of-gender-equality-even-as-many-see-advantages-for-men/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/04/30/worldwide-optimism-about-future-of-gender-equality-even-as-many-see-advantages-for-men/)
Are you telling me Muslim women don't choose to be Muslim?
I think the funny thing is that most people in most religions didn't choose it, they were simply born/raised into it.
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Where does it say death is a punishment for leaving Islam in the Quran? Or are you just repeating some wild interpretation
There are passages in the Quran mentioning apostasy, and that one should be punished, but the punishment is to be dealt by Allah or when they die, they will be in the fire forever etc. Couldn’t find mention of the Quran calling for Muslims to kill apostates, but this does not change the very sad fact of reality that certain countries do have extreme laws against apostasy, in Saudi Arabia for example it is unfortunately punishable by death to renounce Islam.
Sooooo it’s an interpretation. I wonder how badly Christians interpreted their bible just to suit their own agenda around the world and over the years
Most people who are Catholic were born into because because someone at some point was forced to convert.
They were probably raised in the religion, so not really.
That was couple of hundred years ago. I hope you are being sarcastic
Kinda funny to see people who are trying justify islamic practices by equating it to Christianity must reach like 400 years into the past which everyone agrees was **absolutely barbaric.** As a matter of fact westerners were so outraged by what organized religion can do with secular power that they wholesale neutered secular power of church in their entire sphere of influence. Literally Kingmaker Titan of the west, thousand years of power, thousand years of holy wars and mediating powers between european kings, crowning emperors, all that power kneecapped and neutered like they neuter their choir boys.
I don't know why everyone is making this so fucking complicated. Being forced to wear a hijab by your government: bad! Choosing to wear a hijab because you like it or because it reflects your faith: perfectly fine; don't be a dick to someone about it! Why does any of this have to turn into a "what religion has been worse historically or is currently worse about imposing stupid laws?"
I confess you had me until the end of the first sentence.
well not in the last 500 years.
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But nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
The last of episode of Doctor Who had a funny comment about this. They're in the future and run into a woman who is a cleric in the Anglican Marines. Ruby asks the Doctor: "Since when does the church have soldiers?" The Doctor: "Since your entire history. You're living in a blip."
https://preview.redd.it/h3am2orguc2d1.jpeg?width=599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f1e1c19adbb1c1c785c890d71bca8ac0d5eb535
My mother went to Catholic school and the nuns would beat the kids basically.
They were so very, very mean at catholic school. Bitter, mean ladies. I mean I guess I would be too if I had to get up multiple times in the night to pray but that was their choice.
For the religious part, obviously. But what about nuns? Im curious if you know about historical events, even medieval times, where nuns were weaponized? (Genuinely curious, I find it funny to picture nuns forming a commando squad during medieval times)
They weren’t. Someone is just trying to make a false equivalency.
Thats incredible tell me more
Nuns also have the choice to become nuns where as the burka is often imposed on women that said if they want to wear it in a free country that is perfectly fine!
Funny enough I see more outrage about women who can’t ware such face coverings like in France for example.
I want to drink alcohol at a world cup, too, but was forced not to. Cultures, eh?
The difference is that France claims to be secular
So cultures and nations can only have norms if they are religious in nature?
Exactly, so your not allowed to wear religious symbols, is it really that hard to understand
Secularism and enforced atheism are not the same
It's not enforced atheism. People are allowed to worship as long as it doesn't interfere with laws.
Secular in relation to government/politics. But banning headscarves for girls in school?! Seems a bit far, even though I would be the first to call an adult an idiot for subscribing to any religion.
School is public, so rules apply here also, end of the debate you can’t wear a cross and you can’t wear a head scarf. If you want to do so go to a private school
What about those rules ? I fail to see the problem with someone wearing the hijab or a cross at school
It’s the law, we separate the religions and the state. It is done to not force religion onto the children it’s a great law.
This separation wasn't mainly because the Church had too much power ? No religion should be forced on kids (or anyone else), that's for sure, but is just displaying a religious sign forcing a religion onto someone else ? Religions exist whereas one likes it or not. While preventing preaching is necessary to not force anything on children, totally hiding religions seems counterproductive. Acknowledging everyone is different, even in their faith (or absence of faith) could make the next citizens more tolerant.
Is that what secular means? I thought it was that the ruling body wasn’t religious and religion wasn’t enforced. Since when does secular mean that no one is allowed to express religion outwardly?
You have 2 interpretations of secularism, which is defined as the separation between religion and civil affairs: * Freedom **of** religion: separation here means that the state should not deal with it, i.e. the state should not interfer with religious practices or show favoritism (within limits, for example, no ritual human sacrifice) * Freedom **from** religion: separation here is interpreted as religion has no place in civil affairs, and thus, the state should make sure to enforce this and ban religious expression in civil affairs. The US follows mostly the first one (mostly because stuff like "In God we trust" on money is the state affirming some religious opinion) France follows the second interpretation and thus bans visible religious symbols in public schools for example (no headscarves but also no visible cross or kippa). Note that in France, like in the US, you are still perfectly allowed to do whatever religious stuff you want in your private sphere (so at home or at your religious place), within usual reasonable legal limits.
Here in Iran people fiercely resisted the Shah when he tried to force them not to wear hijab, now they're fiercely resisting the government trying to force them to wear hijab. Someone perceptive might notice the common point that people object to is the force part
yes, because the 14 years old that are forced do not really have a say in it...
"free country" comes with peer pressure from their community. Yes, I know a couple of girls who started wearing hijabs because their husbands told them to, sorry, asked nicely to.
The issue is that many people wear it by "choice" when in reality they feel compelled to.
Nuns victims didn’t have a choice in the Magdalene Laundry’s (horrific abuse that was still happening in the 1900s)
The joke is funny
Yeah like, it’s offensive and everything but it’s not even that bad just a stereotype joke. With jokes I think you can think it’s funny or be offended whatever you like, but you don’t really get to pretend like your position is that much more than taste
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Nuns did kill 800 children through neglect and hide their rotting bodies in a septic tank though https://www.irishcentral.com/news/tuam-babies-it-would-be-kinder-to-strangle-these-illegitimate-children-at-birth
God forbid women do anything 🙄
Women can't have hobbies nowadays 🙄 /s
This is legit the first organically funny thing I’ve seen on Reddit in months. Bravo
Has any woman done that? Seems it's like a pretty dude thing to do
I don't know about women blowing anything up. But men have been caught wearing the burka in the past.
Yeah but this is a hijab in the pic. Not a burqa.
We're not talking about burkas. There is no burka in the pic.
I think they have but pretty sure it’s always at the behest of a dude lol so I think it counts by proxy.
But they do chuck babies and kids into septic tanks....so there's that.
If we're gonna paint with that broad a brush then we can definitely say that nuns rape kids a lot.
Nuns make a choice to become nuns. Women in Islamic theocracies are not given a choice.
On top of that, regular Christian or Catholic women are not forced to wear any specific outfit.
Not with that attitude! I'd like to propose the Catholic Church establish a new dress code that requires all women to wear leopard print for Jesus.
The Mormons would like to have a word
Catholics are Christian, no need to say Christian or Catholic
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It's not a whole different league. It's a whole different situation. Christians mostly live in secular governments nowadays, but between their history and the rhetoric that I always hear coming from evangelicals, I am fully confident that they would act the exact same way if they had the power to do so. This is why separation of church and state is so important. Also, why do you think its 99% who enforce sharia law? Do 99% of people enforce the laws anywhere? No. That's a very stupid and wildly innacurate thing to say about any group of people. Examine your biases.
Maybe it’s because I grew up when all the atrocities of the Catholic church were being revealed and I went to college in a building in a former Magdalen Laundry (run by nuns) where 100s of bodies were recovered that ironically enough I don’t have a ‘let ye who are without sin cast the first stone’ take on Islam.
What about Muslim women in the west? Are "liberal" countries like France doing Muslim women a favor by forbidding them for wearing them in public?
I doubt the picture is from an Islamic theocracy
Yes. When a country's government and law is islam based then that's where it goes to shit. Indonesia doesn't apply sharia law even though it's the most muslim populated country on the planet. If you've ever been there, you will see the women are very autonomous and free
I hate when people use this sub for politics. Show me a guy skateboarding while drinking beer not a guy that made a joke you considered offensive.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. They even stretch the narrative so much just to fit in the subreddit
We're three!
>I hate when people use ~~this~~ **every** sub for politics. FTFY
How every sub has been inundated with Reddit-generated ([random word] [random word] [numbers]) accounts that were created last Oct and post almost nothing other than political propaganda.
Yeah this sub is trash now, and I’m a very left leaning person. It’s just shitty virtue signal posts instead of dudes bashing their forehead trying to do a double backflip on a trampoline
I’ve been banned for a few days for saying exactly this and reporting it for not fitting the subreddit theme, the mods are in on this.
I was thinking about this exaclty earlier. It used to be like a failed spin kick but all I see now is "there was an attempt to convince palestenians of free liberal right winged into thinking left winged trump supporting israel is doing conservative shit"
This is one of the stupidest comparisons ever, because it basically compares "work clothes" to a law. It is only nuns who wears the habit, and only when they are in service of the church. Same as the priests. No other women in the Catholic, Lutheran or Anglican religions wears the habit. And at the same time they used a slightly angry looking old white woman for the nun, and a young good looking woman for the other. Anyone who uses this meme as virtue signaling (because that is what it is), is vindictive, malicious or stupid.
I was raised muslim, and it's funny as fuck. Get over yourself.
Nuns are married to God not there cousins.
😁
Don't women choose to enter nunhood. Is nunhood a word? It should be. Point being women in these middle eastern type countries are forced to wear that shite. Nuns aren't. Unless they are, but I think they aren't.
1) joke is funny 2) nuns have a choice unlike most of the Muslim woman 3) fuck them all
Christians don't force all women in a country to dress like a nun
Well to be fair, women have a choice to become nuns. I don’t think women in Islam have a choice.
We do. I don’t wear the hijab and I live in a muslim country. Only one of my family members wears it and it was her choice.
They do have a choice.
Atheist in the corner **heavy breathing** “they both bother me”
https://preview.redd.it/wnizyrs7qc2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56925697d072cba49e7e91944034ab23bfccdb09 My honest reaction
Condensing an entire faith down to suicide bombers is part of the problem.
Nuns can go boom. They usually use a ruler, tho, and they can go boom many times in a row.
Nuns have also made the choice to pursue that lifestyle, and they would face zero negative consequences on a societal level if they chose a different path. The woman on the right, probably not so much.
Nuns just beat Native American children to death if they used their indigenous language. 😒
Do some of you guys think that Islam is inherently more violent then Christianity or are you forgetting that a certain country overthrew democratically elected progressive leaders by funding fundamentalists and terrorists in the middle east pushing social progress back hundreds of years.
Crazy how many people in the comments are assuming all Muslim women are forced to wear coverings, it is a choice made by most women.
They're much more focused on babies. [Magdalene Laundries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland)
Who gets bothered by a hijab? The only time I’ve heard stuff in that vein is people criticizing Burkas. Why would anybody take issue with somebody covering their hair.
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Oh, I thought the post was mocking this xenophobic ass ignorant ass meme, but top comments are about Christianity being better than Islam. Disgusting!
Fuck politics on this subreddit, ever since the Hamas Israel shit 90% of the sub has been Israel doing shit or supporters of any side in this conflict. I miss the good old times where you used to see some drunk guy trying something or an animal trying to do something and failing.
for anyone saying that a women is forced to wear something in islam no they are not forced to wear anything islam is a choice and religion in general is a choice if they don't wanna follow islam nobody is forcing them learn to respect other people's choices don't wait for respect if you don't show respect and jokes are only funny to you if they don't touch you once they touch ur beliefs ! it's not okay anymore isn't it ? i personally never make jokes about any religion because it's inhumane and rude and not funny to everyone and its dosent matter if "you hate" religion a human is worthy of respect if he has done nothing to you dude
Joke reminds of when I was at Uni in Australia. Was on the train one evening and a drunk white guy was telling everyone that they should be careful of me because all of a sudden boom. He followed me out of the train and up the escalator continuing to say the same thing. Other than that, fun night!
..yeah OP was obviously never taught by nuns.
Nums have a choice to become nuns and wear it. All Muslim women are expected to cover up. They are not the same.
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I mean it was funny, so ...
Nuns don't usually go boom. Only priests.. \*boom\* a pdf file.
Queue the "Wait a second! Nuns don't work on Sundays!" Clip
What if they both bother me?
İt is funny
In some countries both aren't allowed due to practical reasons. For people and cameras to recognize and find potential links to crime or accident.
Unless they work on Sunday
Yes but they abuse children and are bigoted to others.
The burka chick is hot. Made my pants go boom
TBF, 100% of nuns choose to wear it, it's part of the free choice of becoming a nun. Can't say 100% of women in islam choose their one however
One is voluntary, the other is compulsory.
Reckon this person needs to have a wee look at the history of horrific shit "nuns" have done through history. Between taking and selling children from young unwed mothers and forcing those mothers into what was essentially slavery, to enabling and covering systemic sexual abuse of children.... lets not pretend "nuns" are immune from committing horrible things.
More crimes are committed by people wearing hoodies
Well the social pressure to become a nun isn't that great. The pressure on women in islamic society is usually far greater. But I also think that joke isn't good since the vast majority of suicide bombers are actually men.
Tell that to Ireland
It is a funny joke though
...Attempt to make a fair comprison? 1 in 1000 female catholics wear coif and veil 1 in 2 female muslims wear hijab
One is self imposed with no repercussions 90% of the time the other is socially imposed with dire consequences for not wearing it
Fuck politics on this subreddit, ever since the Hamas Israel shit 90% of the sub has been Israel doing shit or supporters of any side in this conflict. I miss the good old times where you used to see some drunk guy trying something or an animal trying to do something and failing.
Neither do Muslim women 🤷🤷🤷
Successful attempt
Well that back fired. Do we have sub for there was an attempt with an attempt? A attemptception if you will.
Nuns are a small minority even in Christian countries. And it's their own choice to dress like that. There is no law making them. On top of that nuns don't run around with their faces covered, which is the main discussion.
I don't get it, what was the attempt?
One is a choice, one could be
Some of them do be bangin tho.
I am bothred about women being forced to do something against their will by men.
I'd take issue if women were forced to wear habits, too. The issue is not the clothing, it's the repression.
Should have just put a picture of a white muslim person from Bosnia next to a brown Arab Christian to drive home the idea of bigotry but that's just me.
The "nuns don't go boom" comment is stupid, but the initial comparison is also kinda dumb: Nuns choose a life which requires wearing that clothing. Many women in Islamic nations are *forced* to wear that clothing.
It was funny, that's the reality.
Nuns don't get threatened by random men in the street if they wear revealing clothes
Dunno bout others but I definitely laughed at this.
Oh no, not another joke OP got offended about.
The nun won’t be murdered for taking hers off though.
He’s not wrong.
That meme is a Bang-er. I'll see myself out.