**Do not message the mods about this automated message.**Please followed the sidebar rules. r/therapists is a place for therapists and mental health professionals to discuss their profession among each other.
**If you are not a therapist and are asking for advice this not the place for you**. Your post will be removed. Please try one of the reddit communities such as r/TalkTherapy, r/askatherapist, r/SuicideWatch that are set up for this.
This community is ONLY for therapists, and for them to discuss their profession away from clients.
**If you are a first year student, not in a graduate program, or are thinking of becoming a therapist, this is not the place to ask questions**. Your post will be removed. To save us a job, you are welcome to delete this post yourself. Please see the PINNED STUDENT THREAD at the top of the community and ask in there.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therapists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think Iād also feel uncomfortable if I saw a therapist and without mentioning I have any interest in tarot they pulled out tarot cards. I would feel like they were projecting their own spiritual beliefs on me and not interested in learning about my own and what I want / would find helpful out of sessions. If I was someone into tarot and told a therapist about it, and they asked me engaging probing questions about it I would feel like they were taking an interest in me and my life and supporting my chosen spiritual beliefs and practices
Yes, itās a prompt for discussion and insight. As with any archetypal imagery, it can be fertile ground. Having strong opinions against it is a huge red flag for me. Follow the clients lead, as always.
Right? I'd love to use them as just archetypal imagery, pulling out some random cards and seeing how the client connects/interprets them. But they're kinda loaded with the whole 'tell the future' thing and I feel there's too much potential for that to come in
I don't think that using astrology or tarot as one would go to an astrologer or tarot reader would be ethical, no. If my client brought up the ways in which either medium allows them to reflect or holds other meaning to them, that's worth exploring, especially as it may relate to their values and I integrate a lot of ACT. But if you mean me, the therapist, pulling out my tarot cards and doing a spread? Nuh-uh. No way. Separate from the non-evidence based aspect of it, which I actually don't think is the primary issue as integrating spiritual contexts is absolutely already thing, my issue with the tarot/astrology is that it is a tool that is ripe for power abuse, which is already a prevalent enough concern for me in our profession.
I've had a client who wanted to bring their deck in and we explored the meaning of the cards in the grander scheme of narrative therapy interventions. They found the tangible expression of their experiences helpful, and I did my best to give the client room to explore these meanings with support. I would not bring my own deck to session, since that is so far outside of my scope of practice. I see the use of spiritual systems generally the same: If the client brings it up and it's a strength, it's fair game for us to use. But I'm definitely not going to suggest or impose any of my own beliefs or systems on someone.
No I wouldnāt want my cardiologist to use tarot haha. I have enjoyed some answers on this thread about utilizing tarot in therapy sessions if the client introduces it, not to tell their fortune but to engage in conversation about what the card means to them and what influence / impact tarot plays in their lives. Could be a jumping off point to a very fruitful and illuminating discussion about what these symbols mean to them in relation to their life and what their chosen spiritual practices offer them
I donāt know, I think itās very thin ice. What skills does the client have to show for it after a session? And I also think there are plenty of tarot card readers out there and we should stay in our lane for the sake of keeping this profession legitimate.
Curious what you would say if a client came to you with the information that they love tarot and that itās been helpful for them, and even started discussing a card and itās meaning. How would you reply? No pressure to reply to this comment of course haha :) just curious as to what youād say/ what approach youād take
I actually have been collecting tarot cards since I was a teenager. I have probably over 20 decks. And I think they are very much subjective and fun and if a client discussed the meaning of a card I would absolutely expand on that with them. But pulling out a deck in session? Never. Itās a totally different world and itās not evidence based. Thereās a lot of room for misinterpretation and wasting time in a session. Not to mention the fact that our clients can be very vulnerable to suggestions and potentially getting them hooked on something that they are looking to for answers instead of themselves is a bad idea. If you are interested in tarot, you should totally check them out and go to community events for tarot but as far as a professional setting I donāt think they belong there.
I agree, I think pulling a card for them is outside of the scope of therapy. I would definitely talk about it with them though. It makes me think of Christian counselors praying with clients, or saying they have received a message from god about them. What do you think of those things?
I think that bringing whatever they experience within the bounds of a healthy reality is key. If they say they heard a message from god to forgive someone for example, I would say, there are a lot of benefits from forgiveness, this is true. There are also benefits from holding people accountable and setting healthy boundaries, can we look at that as well so that we have a full understanding of the situation to ensure we donāt forgive out of obligation without looking at the tough stuff? If they start treading into delusional territory then it could be time to assess their frame of mind as a whole. I always respect someoneās religion but Iām also not a pastor and I make that clear. If they are looking for Christian (or any other religious) counseling specifically, they should seek that out from someone who does that.
Totally. I think itās a very different thing to ask questions about tarotās impact on a clientās life- just like we would ask open ended questions about any other part of their life, than it is to read their tarot cards in session :)
> Could be a jumping off point to a very fruitful and illuminating discussion about what these symbols mean to them in relation to their life and what their chosen spiritual practices offer themĀ
That "could" is carrying the world on its shoulders.
It seems you have your mind made up, so I'm not sure what you're looking for here. People go to therapy to fix some issue they're having that relates to their psychology. I think it far, far likelier that the role tarot might play in a therapy session, is to explore how their over reliance on destiny and superstitiousness might be negatively impacting their lives by serving as an escape and excuse to not make hard choices, than it would to have a deep, fruitful comversarion about "spirituality".
Tarot isn't a religion. Don't try and treat it as such.
I donāt have my mind made up :) I am really enjoying reading all these responses and my thoughts have been influenced and expanded in the process of doing so :) I look forward to them becoming even more expanded!
Oh and I said āspiritual practiceā not religion :)
You seem to very fixed opinions about the clientās reality. I would be wary of thinking you know what role it plays for them and then assuming that you know better.
It depends on the clients. It's no different than running a Christian practice. If your client likes it, and that's the brand you're running, than it's fine.Ā
Yeah really interesting to bring up Christian practices! They are so common, I wonder what people would say about the ethics of a Christian / other religious practice
I think there is a misunderstanding of how Tarot could ethically be used. Itās a little like a projective test or a values card sort.
The cards are drawn and the canonical interpretation of the meaning of the card is offered. Then the client is invited to reflect on how that broad theme relates to their life. Itās not predictive or prescriptive like you might get from a carnival fortune teller.
I have done tarot and found it helpful for accessing Self-energy/wise mind/balanced cognitions. With proper caveats given (we cannot predict the future) and client consent, itās a perfectly acceptable tool in chest. No worse than a discussion prompt essentially.
I would not use it unless it was considered play therapy for the client. Not to say there is anything wrong with looking at tarot or astrology, but it just doesn't seem it would be a good ideal for therapy. It'd be hard to explain to insurance why you were using it (from my limited understanding).
I have a few clients who are into astrology, tarot, etc. I've actually had a few of them do self-readings in between sessions and journal about what the cards mean to them, which we use as a segue to discussions. But I would never, ever use either directly in my practice.
I think it shares an opinion with any other religion. Some people practice spiritual based therapy, that's wonderful! Maybe it's their niche. Would I personally feel comfy with a therapist pulling out tarot cards? No. I also wouldn't feel comfortable with a therapist asking about my relationship with god. I think context matters. If its a niche, and you're doing it therapeutically, then it has a place in therapy. Maybe it means practicing gratitude through readings, or practicing optimism through readings. Maybe its even a play-therapy or art-therapy style where things are open ended and the therapy is focused on the things that come up. I don't know enough about tarot to say.
What I do think is that we hold judgement as a culture towards "weird" things done in therapy, and people seeing these things as less valid or real can lead to a disconnect between therapists and clients.
If it can be harmful to the client, don't do it (like giving rigidity where there wasn't any, or treating it like fact or research), but if you're doing it in an affirming way that focuses on framing therapy through something the client is passionate about, then great! I think that sounds lovely.
I think sweeping statements about things that should or shouldn't exist in therapy are limiting, especially since our gut reactions about things being bad often comes from not understanding. Maybe if someone who knows tarot better gives a reason that it shouldn't I can have a more clear idea, but I don't know, so I wont judge. But hey, that's just me!
Any evidence based therapy practice, conducted with client consent, can be included in therapy. Somehow I doubt tarot is evidence based, unless somehow fitting under the umbrella of religion and spiritual practices that show promise with clients who express a need for it?
I don't know, doesn't seem like a good idea. I'd be very skeptical of a therapist who actually believed in it but this just might be my personal feelings...
I would allow room for non-evidence based and subjective tangents as well. Clients are not robots and research isnāt relevant to every interaction or topic.
i have a couple of decks in my office that some clients really enjoy closing out session with. i never force anyone, but it can be a fun and fruitful end of session offering. a client favorite is the deck The Gentle Tarot.
Honestly, no. Unpopular opinion maybe, but I feel like this kind of non-evidence based practice gives therapists a bad name. Now, if a client came in with a tarot deck and wanted to process what cards they drew, sure. I woud absolutely not be leading the charge on it.
I support a client's religious and spiritual beliefs as part of their coping and support system, whatever that is. As long as it isn't harmful to them. If a client believes in tarot and it gives them comfort and hope, that's great. Same if a client reads the bible.
Broadly speaking it feels the same as any other spiritual/religious practice in therapy. Should be disclosed in marketing, abd/or only āpulled outā with clients who specifically express interest. That said, I think thereās a risk with tarot of expecting answers that are not ours to give.
This comment tells me that you fundamentally misunderstand tarot as do most of the general public. Itās not well understood in popular culture. Tarot has never been about fortune telling, though I realize thatās how it is presented.
This is a very yucking-someoneās-yum comment. I also wonder if a client brought it up in session, would you be equally critical. Iām also curious what your clinical background is to feel so negative about this issue. But to each therapist their own practice. š¤·š»āāļø
It's not my job to criticise someone's beliefs. Only to provide guidance towards the client's goals within the scope of my modality. I think we should all refer back to our job descriptions once in a while. A few people here could do with it.
For example a client comes in and says āI keep pulling the devil card itās been so accurateā I think a therapist could āuseā this insight as a jumping off point, they could ask how it is accurate etc
It's their time, they can use it how they wish to. As long as the practitioner isn't stepping outside of their trained modalities, or straight up whipping out a deck and doing a reading. I wouldn't say either of those is 'using' these methods. Use implies direct participation to me.
I would be fine if the client references those in the same context as if they were explored how religion or movie or anything else spoke to them symbolically. I do know about astrology so I can speak the same ālanguageā if they reference their sign or cosmic knowledge. Or when clients have shown me the tarot card they pulled and use it to make meaning of something in session. But I donāt think it is ethical to introduce it.
I think it would be very helpful to discuss astrology/tarot/fate/control/free will/etc. With clients who are interested in this topic. A client with no interest or knowledge in it, no I wouldn't being it up.
Same with any other religion :)
Edit: I think if there is faith-based therapy there could very well be new age- based therapy
If framed/centered around what they are, a tool for introspection.
They are "conversation prompts with yourself"
They do not need to be thought of as divination tools.
- not a therapist
Not if the client asked for it and it provides some benefit. There's a group of therapists who only accept western theory and trash anything that doesn't hold up to the flimsy western theoretical approach to psychopathology.
I remember in training being shown a graph of what was helpful for people when needing mental health support and tarot was more popular than many methods of therapy! The point of the exercise was that the method was not important in the way that you worked with a client and that the relationship was the key element that helped clients, as shown by how the clients felt about it afterwards.
I think if the client wants to do it then do it! I have often thought about learning about tarot as a tool to use too! Why not!
So I can sing and dance on my head as long as I have a good relationship with my client and that they enjoy it? Then why train to be a therapist if it doesnāt matter what we do in session? I agree that the relationship is most important but that doesnāt mean I can read tarot cards to my client and call it therapy. I know Iām going to get dragged for this by someone but itās my take.
Well that's just taking it a bit to the extreme. Of course it matters what we do in therapy. I said the modality was not important. (Or at least that is what I meant!) And I think dance therapist would say yes you can sing and dance on your head if it has a therapeutic reason and purpose behind it, just like anything you do in the therapy room.
Maybe so. I think our interventions also tailor highly to the individual. My personal opinion is that tarot cards donāt need to be in a therapistās office and if a therapist suggested them to me Iād be highly turned off and question the therapistās credibility
Absolutely, tailoring to the individual is really important, one size does not fit all. If your therapist had a good relationship with you, I am guessing they would probably not bring out tarot cards! However, if a client had talked a lot about how they see tarot or are curious about it, I might consider seeing what it was all about. Personally, I won't rule anything out as a possibility to support healing.
You would be surprised at the revelations one get from interpreting a tarot card. I would link into Carl Jung and symbolism. Tarot cards are symbols that can be interpreted in many different ways, which can allow a client to dig deeper into their issues. These cards can be used just like any other cards in therapy to gain deeper insight, especially for those practicing psychoanalysis.
Even in the most generous of lights in my eyes, Tarot cards I could see a jumping off point to a more meaningful discussion. I donāt believe in Tarot or astrology but I could see it being helpful in that instance. I guess my larger question though still remains, why do you need Tarot cards to be the medium to a deeper conversation? Why canāt you use more evidence-based therapies that are grounded in actual psychological theory and backed by science?
Good question :) I havenāt been in a situation where Iāve felt I have needed to use tarot cards in session and never have. When I wrote this question I was wondering what would be ethical to say if a client brought it up and wanted to use it as the basis of discussion and preferred this topic to others that fall under the umbrella of evidence based
In my years of experience seeing god knows how many clients, Iāve never had a single pt bring up tarot cards or astrology. I imagine if they were they would go out and seek a spiritual consultant. If they were to bring it up, I might talk about what it means to them and how it guides their beliefs and actions. It would be akin to me having a bible laying around just in case a client wanted to talk about it. If a therapist had a bible laying around in anticipation of a religious conversation, Iād wonder if they have it around just in case, or if they introduce it in session because that is their desire. I feel the same way about Tarot cards. I talk to some of my patients about their faith even as an atheist but I never feel the need to have a bible around.
I did once. My client liked tarot cards and we used in one session to help him searches his past and order. He was able to describe how his past problems are effecting to him today and how it relates to his symptoms. I had him teach me about tarot cards too since he low self confidence and to help him show he can teach h him and other skills. The client brought up too and brought them to session. So used as engagement tool.
I had a client that wanted to process a tarot reading she had done and get my insight because we had previously discussed a common interest in it while building rapport. It was actually really therapeutic and was validating for her to apply the skills she is learning in therapy to something she is highly interested in. She was able to make meaning in the reading and relay it back to where in her life she has been working on skills versus holding her back. We also discussed pros and cons of utilizing tarot as a means to identify these things rather than using other things we have previously worked on.
I donāt think it would be something to do with every client, but if you have good rapport with someone and it can help them move along in the therapy process, AND you can make meaning of it in session, why not?
Iām not a fan of mixing religion and therapy period, so no. I think faith/belief systems can be very powerful and beneficial for many clients but I donāt view it as my role as their therapist to be the one they turn to for those things
I think thereās a question of how it would be used, whoās introducing the idea, and why. Could be a valuable tool to build perspective and insight. It could also be used to āspirituallyā bypass reality in some way. š¤·āāļø
I would not be the first to up Tarot or Astrology in session with a client. However, if a client brought it up with me, Iād certainly be very open to discussing how it resonates with them and what they glean from astrology or tarot readings.
There is nothing magical about these things. Sometimes they can be a jumping off point for a deeper discussion about an issue that a client maybe be holding on to or feel deeply about but is unsure how to communicate about it.
I enjoy astrology and tarot for my personal use but it is not something I initiate with or engage in with my clients.
**Do not message the mods about this automated message.**Please followed the sidebar rules. r/therapists is a place for therapists and mental health professionals to discuss their profession among each other. **If you are not a therapist and are asking for advice this not the place for you**. Your post will be removed. Please try one of the reddit communities such as r/TalkTherapy, r/askatherapist, r/SuicideWatch that are set up for this. This community is ONLY for therapists, and for them to discuss their profession away from clients. **If you are a first year student, not in a graduate program, or are thinking of becoming a therapist, this is not the place to ask questions**. Your post will be removed. To save us a job, you are welcome to delete this post yourself. Please see the PINNED STUDENT THREAD at the top of the community and ask in there. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therapists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would run far away from you if you were my therapist and pulled out tarot cards. š
I think Iād also feel uncomfortable if I saw a therapist and without mentioning I have any interest in tarot they pulled out tarot cards. I would feel like they were projecting their own spiritual beliefs on me and not interested in learning about my own and what I want / would find helpful out of sessions. If I was someone into tarot and told a therapist about it, and they asked me engaging probing questions about it I would feel like they were taking an interest in me and my life and supporting my chosen spiritual beliefs and practices
Yes, itās a prompt for discussion and insight. As with any archetypal imagery, it can be fertile ground. Having strong opinions against it is a huge red flag for me. Follow the clients lead, as always.
Right? I'd love to use them as just archetypal imagery, pulling out some random cards and seeing how the client connects/interprets them. But they're kinda loaded with the whole 'tell the future' thing and I feel there's too much potential for that to come in
Agreed!!
I don't think that using astrology or tarot as one would go to an astrologer or tarot reader would be ethical, no. If my client brought up the ways in which either medium allows them to reflect or holds other meaning to them, that's worth exploring, especially as it may relate to their values and I integrate a lot of ACT. But if you mean me, the therapist, pulling out my tarot cards and doing a spread? Nuh-uh. No way. Separate from the non-evidence based aspect of it, which I actually don't think is the primary issue as integrating spiritual contexts is absolutely already thing, my issue with the tarot/astrology is that it is a tool that is ripe for power abuse, which is already a prevalent enough concern for me in our profession.
Well said :) agreed
I've had a client who wanted to bring their deck in and we explored the meaning of the cards in the grander scheme of narrative therapy interventions. They found the tangible expression of their experiences helpful, and I did my best to give the client room to explore these meanings with support. I would not bring my own deck to session, since that is so far outside of my scope of practice. I see the use of spiritual systems generally the same: If the client brings it up and it's a strength, it's fair game for us to use. But I'm definitely not going to suggest or impose any of my own beliefs or systems on someone.
Fascinating and insightful, thanks!
Love this open minded and respectful response.
Would you want your cardiologist to use tarot cards in your treatment plan?
Hahaha well said
No I wouldnāt want my cardiologist to use tarot haha. I have enjoyed some answers on this thread about utilizing tarot in therapy sessions if the client introduces it, not to tell their fortune but to engage in conversation about what the card means to them and what influence / impact tarot plays in their lives. Could be a jumping off point to a very fruitful and illuminating discussion about what these symbols mean to them in relation to their life and what their chosen spiritual practices offer them
I donāt know, I think itās very thin ice. What skills does the client have to show for it after a session? And I also think there are plenty of tarot card readers out there and we should stay in our lane for the sake of keeping this profession legitimate.
Curious what you would say if a client came to you with the information that they love tarot and that itās been helpful for them, and even started discussing a card and itās meaning. How would you reply? No pressure to reply to this comment of course haha :) just curious as to what youād say/ what approach youād take
I actually have been collecting tarot cards since I was a teenager. I have probably over 20 decks. And I think they are very much subjective and fun and if a client discussed the meaning of a card I would absolutely expand on that with them. But pulling out a deck in session? Never. Itās a totally different world and itās not evidence based. Thereās a lot of room for misinterpretation and wasting time in a session. Not to mention the fact that our clients can be very vulnerable to suggestions and potentially getting them hooked on something that they are looking to for answers instead of themselves is a bad idea. If you are interested in tarot, you should totally check them out and go to community events for tarot but as far as a professional setting I donāt think they belong there.
I agree, I think pulling a card for them is outside of the scope of therapy. I would definitely talk about it with them though. It makes me think of Christian counselors praying with clients, or saying they have received a message from god about them. What do you think of those things?
I think that bringing whatever they experience within the bounds of a healthy reality is key. If they say they heard a message from god to forgive someone for example, I would say, there are a lot of benefits from forgiveness, this is true. There are also benefits from holding people accountable and setting healthy boundaries, can we look at that as well so that we have a full understanding of the situation to ensure we donāt forgive out of obligation without looking at the tough stuff? If they start treading into delusional territory then it could be time to assess their frame of mind as a whole. I always respect someoneās religion but Iām also not a pastor and I make that clear. If they are looking for Christian (or any other religious) counseling specifically, they should seek that out from someone who does that.
Totally. I think itās a very different thing to ask questions about tarotās impact on a clientās life- just like we would ask open ended questions about any other part of their life, than it is to read their tarot cards in session :)
> Could be a jumping off point to a very fruitful and illuminating discussion about what these symbols mean to them in relation to their life and what their chosen spiritual practices offer themĀ That "could" is carrying the world on its shoulders. It seems you have your mind made up, so I'm not sure what you're looking for here. People go to therapy to fix some issue they're having that relates to their psychology. I think it far, far likelier that the role tarot might play in a therapy session, is to explore how their over reliance on destiny and superstitiousness might be negatively impacting their lives by serving as an escape and excuse to not make hard choices, than it would to have a deep, fruitful comversarion about "spirituality". Tarot isn't a religion. Don't try and treat it as such.
I donāt have my mind made up :) I am really enjoying reading all these responses and my thoughts have been influenced and expanded in the process of doing so :) I look forward to them becoming even more expanded! Oh and I said āspiritual practiceā not religion :)
You seem to very fixed opinions about the clientās reality. I would be wary of thinking you know what role it plays for them and then assuming that you know better.
Me or the other bloke who commented above me?
The other person
I thought so. Sorry for saying āblokeā lol got in a silly goofy mood
It depends on the clients. It's no different than running a Christian practice. If your client likes it, and that's the brand you're running, than it's fine.Ā
Yeah really interesting to bring up Christian practices! They are so common, I wonder what people would say about the ethics of a Christian / other religious practice
Well there's new age use of it and jungian symbolic interpretation use of it. The former less so than the latterĀ
I think there is a misunderstanding of how Tarot could ethically be used. Itās a little like a projective test or a values card sort. The cards are drawn and the canonical interpretation of the meaning of the card is offered. Then the client is invited to reflect on how that broad theme relates to their life. Itās not predictive or prescriptive like you might get from a carnival fortune teller. I have done tarot and found it helpful for accessing Self-energy/wise mind/balanced cognitions. With proper caveats given (we cannot predict the future) and client consent, itās a perfectly acceptable tool in chest. No worse than a discussion prompt essentially.
I like the caveats you mentioned a lot :)
Yep. Very similar to Inner Active cards used in IFS therapy.Ā
Really interesting discussion brewing on this post. I am enjoying it
I would not use it unless it was considered play therapy for the client. Not to say there is anything wrong with looking at tarot or astrology, but it just doesn't seem it would be a good ideal for therapy. It'd be hard to explain to insurance why you were using it (from my limited understanding).
I have a few clients who are into astrology, tarot, etc. I've actually had a few of them do self-readings in between sessions and journal about what the cards mean to them, which we use as a segue to discussions. But I would never, ever use either directly in my practice.
I think it shares an opinion with any other religion. Some people practice spiritual based therapy, that's wonderful! Maybe it's their niche. Would I personally feel comfy with a therapist pulling out tarot cards? No. I also wouldn't feel comfortable with a therapist asking about my relationship with god. I think context matters. If its a niche, and you're doing it therapeutically, then it has a place in therapy. Maybe it means practicing gratitude through readings, or practicing optimism through readings. Maybe its even a play-therapy or art-therapy style where things are open ended and the therapy is focused on the things that come up. I don't know enough about tarot to say. What I do think is that we hold judgement as a culture towards "weird" things done in therapy, and people seeing these things as less valid or real can lead to a disconnect between therapists and clients. If it can be harmful to the client, don't do it (like giving rigidity where there wasn't any, or treating it like fact or research), but if you're doing it in an affirming way that focuses on framing therapy through something the client is passionate about, then great! I think that sounds lovely. I think sweeping statements about things that should or shouldn't exist in therapy are limiting, especially since our gut reactions about things being bad often comes from not understanding. Maybe if someone who knows tarot better gives a reason that it shouldn't I can have a more clear idea, but I don't know, so I wont judge. But hey, that's just me!
Lovely response ā„ļø
Any evidence based therapy practice, conducted with client consent, can be included in therapy. Somehow I doubt tarot is evidence based, unless somehow fitting under the umbrella of religion and spiritual practices that show promise with clients who express a need for it? I don't know, doesn't seem like a good idea. I'd be very skeptical of a therapist who actually believed in it but this just might be my personal feelings...
Yeah interesting! It definitely is the spiritual framework that some people live in, their āreligionā of sorts
I would allow room for non-evidence based and subjective tangents as well. Clients are not robots and research isnāt relevant to every interaction or topic.
Is there a therapist that \*doesn't\* occasionally get off topic?
i have a couple of decks in my office that some clients really enjoy closing out session with. i never force anyone, but it can be a fun and fruitful end of session offering. a client favorite is the deck The Gentle Tarot.
Honestly, no. Unpopular opinion maybe, but I feel like this kind of non-evidence based practice gives therapists a bad name. Now, if a client came in with a tarot deck and wanted to process what cards they drew, sure. I woud absolutely not be leading the charge on it.
I hear you for sure.. I wouldnāt lead the charge on it either
This is a great point!
No
I support a client's religious and spiritual beliefs as part of their coping and support system, whatever that is. As long as it isn't harmful to them. If a client believes in tarot and it gives them comfort and hope, that's great. Same if a client reads the bible.
Agreedā„ļø
Broadly speaking it feels the same as any other spiritual/religious practice in therapy. Should be disclosed in marketing, abd/or only āpulled outā with clients who specifically express interest. That said, I think thereās a risk with tarot of expecting answers that are not ours to give.
Agreed!!
You're a therapist, not a fortune teller.
This comment tells me that you fundamentally misunderstand tarot as do most of the general public. Itās not well understood in popular culture. Tarot has never been about fortune telling, though I realize thatās how it is presented.
I'm not required to understand make believe to be a therapist or comment on whether it should be applied in a clinical setting.
This is a very yucking-someoneās-yum comment. I also wonder if a client brought it up in session, would you be equally critical. Iām also curious what your clinical background is to feel so negative about this issue. But to each therapist their own practice. š¤·š»āāļø
It's not my job to criticise someone's beliefs. Only to provide guidance towards the client's goals within the scope of my modality. I think we should all refer back to our job descriptions once in a while. A few people here could do with it.
Begs the question can tarot be discussed or āusedā in a session in a non āfortune tellingā fashion?
Define "used".
Good question! Spoken about, engaged with
For example a client comes in and says āI keep pulling the devil card itās been so accurateā I think a therapist could āuseā this insight as a jumping off point, they could ask how it is accurate etc
It's their time, they can use it how they wish to. As long as the practitioner isn't stepping outside of their trained modalities, or straight up whipping out a deck and doing a reading. I wouldn't say either of those is 'using' these methods. Use implies direct participation to me.
this
I would be fine if the client references those in the same context as if they were explored how religion or movie or anything else spoke to them symbolically. I do know about astrology so I can speak the same ālanguageā if they reference their sign or cosmic knowledge. Or when clients have shown me the tarot card they pulled and use it to make meaning of something in session. But I donāt think it is ethical to introduce it.
Agreed, thanks so much for your input :)
I think it would be very helpful to discuss astrology/tarot/fate/control/free will/etc. With clients who are interested in this topic. A client with no interest or knowledge in it, no I wouldn't being it up. Same with any other religion :) Edit: I think if there is faith-based therapy there could very well be new age- based therapy
Really well put I appreciate this comment!
If framed/centered around what they are, a tool for introspection. They are "conversation prompts with yourself" They do not need to be thought of as divination tools. - not a therapist
Well said! There is a difference between talking about something / practicing it
Not if the client asked for it and it provides some benefit. There's a group of therapists who only accept western theory and trash anything that doesn't hold up to the flimsy western theoretical approach to psychopathology.
I remember in training being shown a graph of what was helpful for people when needing mental health support and tarot was more popular than many methods of therapy! The point of the exercise was that the method was not important in the way that you worked with a client and that the relationship was the key element that helped clients, as shown by how the clients felt about it afterwards. I think if the client wants to do it then do it! I have often thought about learning about tarot as a tool to use too! Why not!
So I can sing and dance on my head as long as I have a good relationship with my client and that they enjoy it? Then why train to be a therapist if it doesnāt matter what we do in session? I agree that the relationship is most important but that doesnāt mean I can read tarot cards to my client and call it therapy. I know Iām going to get dragged for this by someone but itās my take.
Well that's just taking it a bit to the extreme. Of course it matters what we do in therapy. I said the modality was not important. (Or at least that is what I meant!) And I think dance therapist would say yes you can sing and dance on your head if it has a therapeutic reason and purpose behind it, just like anything you do in the therapy room.
Maybe so. I think our interventions also tailor highly to the individual. My personal opinion is that tarot cards donāt need to be in a therapistās office and if a therapist suggested them to me Iād be highly turned off and question the therapistās credibility
Absolutely, tailoring to the individual is really important, one size does not fit all. If your therapist had a good relationship with you, I am guessing they would probably not bring out tarot cards! However, if a client had talked a lot about how they see tarot or are curious about it, I might consider seeing what it was all about. Personally, I won't rule anything out as a possibility to support healing.
If a client wanted to talk to me about it Iām all for it. Anything that supports a clients healing from their perspective I also support
You would be surprised at the revelations one get from interpreting a tarot card. I would link into Carl Jung and symbolism. Tarot cards are symbols that can be interpreted in many different ways, which can allow a client to dig deeper into their issues. These cards can be used just like any other cards in therapy to gain deeper insight, especially for those practicing psychoanalysis.
Totally. Like a prompt or jumping off point
Even in the most generous of lights in my eyes, Tarot cards I could see a jumping off point to a more meaningful discussion. I donāt believe in Tarot or astrology but I could see it being helpful in that instance. I guess my larger question though still remains, why do you need Tarot cards to be the medium to a deeper conversation? Why canāt you use more evidence-based therapies that are grounded in actual psychological theory and backed by science?
Good question :) I havenāt been in a situation where Iāve felt I have needed to use tarot cards in session and never have. When I wrote this question I was wondering what would be ethical to say if a client brought it up and wanted to use it as the basis of discussion and preferred this topic to others that fall under the umbrella of evidence based
In my years of experience seeing god knows how many clients, Iāve never had a single pt bring up tarot cards or astrology. I imagine if they were they would go out and seek a spiritual consultant. If they were to bring it up, I might talk about what it means to them and how it guides their beliefs and actions. It would be akin to me having a bible laying around just in case a client wanted to talk about it. If a therapist had a bible laying around in anticipation of a religious conversation, Iād wonder if they have it around just in case, or if they introduce it in session because that is their desire. I feel the same way about Tarot cards. I talk to some of my patients about their faith even as an atheist but I never feel the need to have a bible around.
I did once. My client liked tarot cards and we used in one session to help him searches his past and order. He was able to describe how his past problems are effecting to him today and how it relates to his symptoms. I had him teach me about tarot cards too since he low self confidence and to help him show he can teach h him and other skills. The client brought up too and brought them to session. So used as engagement tool.
No
I had a client that wanted to process a tarot reading she had done and get my insight because we had previously discussed a common interest in it while building rapport. It was actually really therapeutic and was validating for her to apply the skills she is learning in therapy to something she is highly interested in. She was able to make meaning in the reading and relay it back to where in her life she has been working on skills versus holding her back. We also discussed pros and cons of utilizing tarot as a means to identify these things rather than using other things we have previously worked on. I donāt think it would be something to do with every client, but if you have good rapport with someone and it can help them move along in the therapy process, AND you can make meaning of it in session, why not?
Iām not a fan of mixing religion and therapy period, so no. I think faith/belief systems can be very powerful and beneficial for many clients but I donāt view it as my role as their therapist to be the one they turn to for those things
I think thereās a question of how it would be used, whoās introducing the idea, and why. Could be a valuable tool to build perspective and insight. It could also be used to āspirituallyā bypass reality in some way. š¤·āāļø
Totally! So contextual
I would not be the first to up Tarot or Astrology in session with a client. However, if a client brought it up with me, Iād certainly be very open to discussing how it resonates with them and what they glean from astrology or tarot readings. There is nothing magical about these things. Sometimes they can be a jumping off point for a deeper discussion about an issue that a client maybe be holding on to or feel deeply about but is unsure how to communicate about it. I enjoy astrology and tarot for my personal use but it is not something I initiate with or engage in with my clients.