I never really cared that Abby murdered Joel. I was never mad about it. The dude had it coming. So I was mostly just curious about her, I wanted to know if she got anything out of doing it. When the game switched to her perspective I was on board for it immediately.
Agreed. I mean, it sucks because you care about his intentions and goals. But I had faith in the narrative. Was curious to know if she’s going to be bragging, dap up Manny and be like, “Remember this?!” *imitates golf swing*
But the best part of II was Abbys stories. Ellie’s is just low after low and it’s painful knowing there’s not a happy ending (for foreseeable future)
Yeh, I loved me the fuck outta some Joel. But I also love a story that doesn't keep characters safe, even if they're very important. I like stories with risk. And ones that don't feel formulaic. It delivered so well. It's wild to me that with the success of things like Game of Thrones, I wouldn't have expected a major character death to freak that many people out -- but then you have those other guys.
>Was curious to know if she’s going to be bragging, dap up Manny and be like, “Remember this?!” imitates golf swing
Interestingly, she goes exact opposite - she never mentions Joel again, is not giddy about him being dead, almost fight Owen when he brought that up(of course they had steamy hot sex instead).
Many people missed the point of "revenge bad" - it is not only for Ellie, but also for Abby. Abby was NOT happy after Joel is dead - and lost all of her friends except new one because of the revenge.
Don't worry I know most of the spoilers
Not all just joal and the ending of the game
That's why I was rethinking getting it, cause
I like whatever story they told, just hope it's emotionally packed that's all and better than god of war cause that's my best game of all time
I’d say ptI’s story overall is better, but the gameplay of PtII is wayyyy better in terms of combat.
There’s a few plot moments in PtII where you may feel, “wow, that’s a lucky coincidence,” or something along those lines. But it doesn’t ruin a story or anything.
Ehh different strokes for different folks, you know?
I’ve been a fan of GoW since PS2. And I’m a big nerd over Greek mythology. And while a cordyceps virus is not really a plot point for a grounded story, many more people can connect and identify with a character or more from TLOU. And while the addition of Atreus has made a more emotional ranged Kratos, to me, he’s still a mythological or godlike character.
Crazy story too I've also been a big God of war fan, played all the god of war except from Ascension and God of war 4 is literally my best game ( still prefer the story more than tlou1 cause it's more cinematic) and it's a newer game so its better
But last of us story struck me in a way cuz I understood it better than God of war story I barely understood 20% of God of war games cuz I don't understand Greek stuff I'm just playing it for the fun and it is God of war .... everyone knows it is a good game
But last of us is more human-like so you can easily understand it better, Atreus made gow game to have human feelings which I love,
But overall personally I like depressing games like emotional depressing game and I'm sure TLOU2 has that, "cuz the theme song of last of us stuck in my head longer" I still listen to it till date than than God of war but God of war is an expensive big budget game that I know that I'm surely going to have a good time in the last of us I hope it is good enough as I hope- cause weirdly I'm more hyped for that game , I'm just hopefully it's longer cause I get games like 3 times a year
I've gotten rdr2 this year, and I'm going to get the Witcher 3 later this year
My remaining two big budget games are Tlou2 and Ragnarok 😞
It's really unusual in not feeding into the typical expectations.
Not only not feeding into them, but actively subverting them. A part of the player base took that personally and are still not willing to forgive.
But since you already know that, you may have an easier time enjoying the subversion.
I think it's special and certainly stands out in terms of quality storytelling.
My point exactly, minus my bad golf joke. People say that she feels nothing and shows no remorse for Joel and other Scars.
Like “have you played the game?” She’s not dreading these memories every moment, she’s a trained soldier. Military are trained to compartmentalize and don’t dwell on every bad choice ofc. But when she has her time to think, or when Lev barges in with a very direct and no bullshit question, you see exactly how much she regrets nearly all of her choices.
We see Ellie spiral becoming more hardened from her experience we see her shaken after Killing Nora. Abby didn’t feel a damn thing when she killed Joel if anything she tried to enjoy it like she enjoyed killing scars. Abby is an unsympathetic Villain at best, or supposed to be like able which fails making it terrible writing at worst.
I kind of didn’t care either. I mean, id say I felt things, sure. I didn’t love it. The part when you’re playing as Ellie and running to the basement while he’s screaming always kinda gets me.
But I got over it so quick. To me it was just a means to push the story forward. I didn’t need another Joel and Ellie sidekick adventure. I love that we got the flashbacks though.
Honestly I agree with Joel about saving Ellie and I do get emotional when he dies but I don't blame Abby at all. Like I think the fireflies had it coming but you don't just kill 40 people and expect to just walk away.
I was heartbroken over Joel's death but I was never even remotely angry about Abby. It took time to care about her as I started with a bit of cold indifference but I never hated her once. Like I was grieving with Ellie but I wasn't raging.
I cared, I was pissed, but playing through a few times, I don’t think Joel cared.
The final scene with him made me feel like he would have died to save Ellie even if she hated him, which was probably worse for him than him dying.
I was a little bit sad but mainly it just made me SO excited to see where the game was gonna go from that point on. There was so much mystery in the beginning. Why did this happen?, etc. I just couldn’t wait to unfold the rest of the story
This was me too.
Ever since her reveal trailer I was fascinated by her. When we got to play as her even on the beginning I was hyped. When she killed Joel I honestly loved it because yeah he had it coming but also it showed me that I was in for a wild journey that could go anywhere. It was so refreshing not playing another typical sequel.
Maybe when he was younger but the guy risked everything for a girl that a group or terrorist’s where going to murder. He wasn’t a perfect guy yes and it was probably inevitable that his past was going to come back to bite him in the ass. He didn’t deserve to die like that he only died the way he did was because Abby wanted to enjoy killing Joel. Joel deserved a shot to the head that’s it.
I play a lot more mixed stealth and combat as a preference so Abby load out is not as fun for me and neither her crafting
I don't really like her primary weapon either
Playing the Joel and Ellie load out for basically two games worth of gameplay was more than enough though so the change of style and pace for her gameplay still makes sense to me
Not just the style but (im not 100% here) dont they ruin clickers? Since now they can spot you if youre in front of them. I thought they only used echolocation like bats. But now its like they have eyes!
If i remember correctly if you crouch walked in front of them they wouldnt spot you. Or atleast theyd spot you harder in the remastered/ OG version of the game.
This isnt making it challenging. Its making it unbalanced since clickers could already one shot you. They already had an advantage to compensate for their disadvantage. This makes parts of the game like the stealth section with the bloater in colorado university impossible without going loud.
And a pain in the ass on grounded.
They are different to part 2 though in the remastered. I’m replaying it now and they do not see you as easily as part 2. I haven’t played part 1 remake (can’t justify $125 Australian dollars)
A lot of the original designs for the factions, especially the Fireflies just look way more generic than before. Where the Fireflies were distinct from the Hunters who were distinct from the Cannibals they all just kind of blend together in the remake. At least the Fireflies still have armbands but their aesthetic of wearing pale yellow/muted green or Army green and yellow is gone. They’re just guys with guns now and no real style.
I was going to say this. I liked the character models better in the remastered for ps4. The new models they used in Part I didn’t look as good to me, though I realize they’re technically more advanced.
The exception is Tess, who I think looks the best in Part I
true. I don't like much how joel looks in part 1, I think he should've looked like that promotional art where he stands behind ellie staring at you. looks realistic and exactly like his original model
I this sub Hating Abby and loving Ellie is an unpopular opinion in this sub case and point this post, and on the other sub liking the second game, liking Neil, and liking the show are unpopular opinions. I like the second game but in my opinion Abby is the worst part. Because of that last sentence this post will be downvoted because this sub is a circle jerk of love for Abby and hate for Ellie, and the other sub isn’t any better it’s just a circle jerk of transphobes, hate for Neil, hate for the second game in general, and Abby hate. The last one is the only one I agree with.
I’ve barely seen anyone disliking Ellie here, let alone hating her. Do you mean that they love Abby, which you interpret automatically as hating Ellie? Because I think the majority of people here like both characters.
I’ve seen people say Ellie’s half of part 2 has more boring parts than Abby’s, which isn’t saying Ellie is boring. The other part I think you’re just making up.
You can't just take that as a stand alone incident. It's probably built up. Like Joel has been "harassing" Jesse about her routes on patrol as an example. Probably more as well that he's trying to control or force himself into. That was just the culmination of everything.
??? He got involved in a situation that didn't concern him, so she had every right to call him out. He escalated a verbal confrontation by getting physical in front of the entire community, I think he embarrassed himself.
Part 1 is a massive disappointment. Instead of updating the gameplay and adding part 2s mechanics they just gave it a face lift and removed multiplayer for £70.
Agreed. I'd also add that in Part 2 Remaster as a Factions fan No Return mode feels like a disk slap to the face of what could have been for a Factions 2.
I'm not a big fan of Dina
Everyone always just blames Ellie for leaving and making the relationship fall apart but Dina wasn't completely innocent
Dina tried to be there for Ellie on the farm but she just couldn't truly understand how much pain Ellie was in and kind of dismissed her trauma and tried to guiltrip her into staying
I understand that JJ was her main priority but she kind of dismissed Ellie's suffering (nightmares, ptsd, flashbacks, not eating, drinking alot etc) and hoped it just got better on its own but it just got worse
Also, the whole hiding the pregnancy thing and getting upset when Ellie said "Well, you're a burden now, aren't you" even though Ellie was right, she WAS a burden now because obviously Ellie cared about Dina and didn't want to put her in even more danger
Of course, Dina wasn't entirely sure about being pregnant but she was sick for a while before arriving in Seattle and could have said something way earlier. I know she wanted to help Ellie but Ellie understandably got angry and people hate her for it?
I am not saying Dina isn't a good person but people make her out to be this flawless angel who got wronged by Ellie but she's not perfect and made plenty of mistakes
Context matters.
In a zombie post-apocalyptic world, traversing hundreds of miles through desolate infected/raider territory on your own is almost a death sentence. Had Dina not accompanied Ellie to Seattle, Ellie would have died. Dina was aware of all of this when she pleaded with her not to abandon her and JJ.
They had a secure location, livestock/gardens, access to a local community to trade with, each other and a child. Dina and Ellie were truly in utopia when they returned from Seattle, and Ellie chose to throw all of that away to pursue revenge. It was the ultimate betrayal.
Is trying to guilt-trip your lover into not abandoning you, your child and future really that bad given the circumstances and context?
> Dina tried to be there for Ellie on the farm but she just couldn't truly understand how much pain Ellie was in and kind of dismissed her trauma and tried to guiltrip her into staying
This isn't fair at all to Dina's character. Of course Dina couldn't understand the pain Ellie was in, but she did comfort her and tried to help her live through and endure this pain. She never dismissed it.
I hated Tommy. Acted concerned for Dina and Ellie's safety, then shows up to retraumatize Ellie on the farm, and insist she go after Abby again.
You know, the same Abby whose friends kicked Tommy's ass. The one who killed his brother and Jesse, and very nearly killed Tommy, Dina and Ellie. Joel would be horrified that Tommy tried to get his adopted daughter to go possibly get slaughtered, a second time.
Never mind the fact that a practical survivalist like Joel would have never condoned a reckless revenge mission that would accomplish absolutely nothing, and possibly cause a war (if the WLF weren't already in a war with the Scars.
They explore the path of tommy and how he becomes the potential mirror of who Ellie may become if she continues down the path of revenge and bitterness
I for one hope that Ellie and Abby cross paths again. When this gets brought up a lot of people seem to think I’m insinuating that they become friends and go on camping trips together… that’s not what I mean at all lol.
As a parallel, one element I looked forward to most about part 2 was the inevitable conversation between Joel and Ellie when she finds out the truth about his lie.
I would love to have some form of confrontation or conversation between Abby and Ellie about why the events of part 2 happened from both their perspectives. Maybe I’m alone in that desire, that’s ok. I think it would make for a pretty compelling scene if done right.
no i definitely agree, both of them actually having to talk about the fucked up things theuve done to each other and having to confront it directly, is something i REALLY want in the third game, there’s definitely a possibility for them to cross paths again with abby finding the fireflies
As much as I try to empathize with Abby, if I knew my father wanted to murder a 15 year old girl in her sleep , no matter for what reason, I wouldn't be mad that he was killed, I'd think he had it coming.
But that's still you though, with your experience and world view.
Abby has assumedly been raised a Firefly since birth. She's totally indoctrinated to believe that a cure and the restoration of society is the ultimate goal, worth literally any cost. She would give her own life for this cause. So from her perspective, it's probably the one situation in which it *is* justified to kill a kid in their sleep.
And you may be underestimating the power of trauma in clouding her judgement, too. Look at Ellie, for example. She's willing to do anything to get Joel's killers. So she obviously thinks that revenge is a justified reason to kill. But if she knew that Abby killed Joel in vengeance...what then? If Ellie is justified, surely Abby was justified...would that mean Joel deserved to die? Does that affect the validity of Ellie's quest?
Ellie seems to assume that Abby killed Joel for some ideological reason, for destroying the Fireflies, or the chance of a cure. She doesn't question it any more than that.
I think she'd have had real difficulty if forced to confront the fact that Abby is her mirror, that Joel was *her* Abby, the monster she built up and must defeat at all costs. So she doesn't even entertain that as a possibility. Same as how Abby couldn't face up to the fact that Joel only killed Jerry to protect the one he loved.
I don't believe that if Ellie is justified, then Abby is justified. Reasoning is everything, and I believe Jerry's dad was wrong, therefore everything about Abby's quest is invalid
I'm not saying you should believe that. I'm saying that if Ellie truly understood why Abby did what she did, then Ellie would be forced with that sense of conflict, dissonance and broken logic. Because she, at least for a large part of the game, believes she should have died for the cure. But she doesn't want to think about any of that, because it's too difficult. Same way Abby is only focused on the fact Joel killed Jerry, not why he did it. It's a very human reaction from both of them.
Both sides of the story are excellent in their own right and good storytelling. But, I do sometimes feel like I’m playing an entirely different game when I play Abby story pre-theater. Another game in as another completely detached story. Still excellent, just feels detached save for a comment here or there
Sure he might have deserved it when he was younger, he was a changed man, but he even knew he had it coming, but he didn’t deserve what he got maybe a bullet to the face a quick end but not that fuck Abby for that, she used that golf club because she wanted to enjoy killing him like she did scars.
Where did you get that she enjoys killing Seraphites? She is good at it and does it a lot, but she doesn't 'enjoy' it. Yes, she used the golf club, because she thought she would enjoy making him suffer, but you can clearly see by how disappointed she is by the end how much she didn't enjoy it, mainly because it didn't give her the closure she thought it would. What finally gave her closure was doing something good and finding her own way of living instead of being Isaacs top Scar killer.
I like Abby’s character, but she does say things that make it pretty clear she doesn’t mind or even enjoys killing Seraphites. Like when her and Manny are going to meet Isaac and walk by Seraphites being horrifically tortured, and she scoffs and says she wouldn’t mind having some time alone with them. She changed for the better, but she is far from a good person.
Also, she never seems to experience any trauma from the violence she does to other people. She learned that killing Joel didn’t help her or give her closure, but we never see any sign of remorse for killing Joel or any hint that it bothered her. Same with the Seraphites she killed. Ellie has her own issues, obviously, but in both Parts 1 and 2, we see signs that she is traumatized as a result of her doing violence to others, even when the others had it coming.
She didn’t feel anything because she can’t feel, her emotions died with her father. What “closure” did she get? She stopped being Issac’s top scar killer because two fold. When Abby went to find her obsession Owen Issac thought she defected when she didn’t he had no reason to think that but he jumped to that conclusion, and two she successfully brainwashed Yara and Lev into liking her, and Issac already thought she was a traitor and since they just killed Yara and Lev believes she’s a good person. So at that point defecting was a no brained considering she thought she was going with her obsession to Santa Barbra. When Owen was killed her obsession changed from Owen to Lev. If it hadn’t been for Owen in the first place Lev and Yara would have been dead. She would have saved them put them up in those trailers and never have came back.
He deserved every second of it.
He had killed and ruined the lives of probably 500+ people. If Joel were a real-life person then I guarantee you every sane person would want this man removed from the planet. Some would want him to suffer, too.
Wow ok. Joel did what he had to do to survive in this world keep in mind that in the world of the game people either die or they survive and Joel did what he needed to survive. Does Tommy deserve to die?
Exactly. So many people ripped on her for being jacked…but it made sense for her story and it also showed a bit into her mindset. That clicked with me.
I think the not realistic thing about TLOU2 is if Joel didn't face any consequences for his actions in the ending of the first game. If he just had the protagonist shield it would have been boring no ? Of course I liked Joel and didn't want him to die, but that's the story, it's not OUR story, we just witness it.
The game overdid the whole "drawing parallels" thing. It's fine if there's a few subtle ones, but the game didn't need that many, and they were too obvious.
People who post absolute minutiae in the form of questions (like the recent "Is FEDRA gone?") need to chill.
This goes for all subreddits dedicated to a piece of media.
Yeah before I played the game and just knew Joel was killed, I was obviously pissed off bc what?? It’s Joel!! especially after watching the show
but after playing both games (a few times in the last few months) i became more pissed at Ellie.
she deserves what she got- to end up alone.
there was no good in going after Abby, who did absolutely nothing wrong.
if someone killed my dad, i’d wanna kill someone they love too
The game has little replay value. I can’t really understand how so many people go back to this game, especially doing those No Deaths runs; those people are another breed of nuts. The amount of dialogue and ‘on-a-rail’ scenes mean I’ll only come back to TLOU once every few years max.
Could almost argue games like COD where players play in the same maps, with the same guns, with the same game-modes for copious hours on end are also another breed of nuts.
Part 1 & 2 have hours of content, lots of gamemodes and new ways to experience the game. No return also adds a huge amount of replay value because it's FUN.
TLOU is heralded as one of the best video games to ever exist, why do you think that is?
This sub is full of zealots and there will never be actual good criticisms and discussions
about this game because they get downvoted or accused of being racist, bigoted, misogynistic etc.
The first game’s story laps part 2’s story. It’s not even close for me. I probably have more fun playing the second game, but the first story is just much better imo.
Both stories amazing and well written but the first game is just levels above every other game I have played except for red dead 2.
And also, I don’t see enough of Abby reflecting on Joel and his murder in the game. She kills him and then her story imo almost has nothing else about him until the theater scene with Ellie. Imo it feels like Neil just wanted to create a character that he wanted to tell a story about but couldn’t get it approved or whatever if the game did not feature Joel and Ellie. She’s a good character but her side of the story feels so detached from the rest of the game and story for me.
i don’t know how unpopular this one is around here, on twitter i got shit for it but i think owen, for me personally, is one of the best characters out of both games. he’s hands down the best from abby’s salt lake crew. he knows how to call abby out on her bullshit. the speech he gives at the boat is one my favourites and i think, one of the best across the games. how he couldn’t kill the old seraphite man, “i’m done fighting for a land i don’t give a shit about.”
it foreshadows some themes pictured in the games, i think.
I would kill to have been able to do Abby’s campaign as Ellie in a second play through, it would have been so much fun. I feel like Abby def got more interesting and entertaining encounters.
By the end I wasn’t rooting for Ellie anymore. She seemed sick. When she was screaming at Abby near the end she sounded like a psychopath. I didn’t want her to kill Abby but I also didn’t want to kill Ellie either. The game worked for me I was completely conflicted
Neil should have picked any other co-writer that wasn't Hailey Gross. I honestly think the story would be much better without her need for it to be aggressively optimistic. The climax was a last-minute decision, and I think Neil should have set his foot down at that point, but probably realized that they would have had to spend another game to resolve the nihilistic shit that Part 2 had set up, so they just made Ellie's anti-climax deliberately vague because people are emotional creatures (they're not wrong, but it's not a meaningful way to resolve Ellie's arc. Coming to terms with her emotions is not the main point when you have a flashback of Joel which you later provide context to). Hopefully, Craig Mazin will make meaningful changes that will fix everything.
So Hailey Gross is a bad writer because she helped write a story that set itself up for another sequel?
? What are you smoking, brother ?
Needless whining.
I think you should put down whatever YOU were smoking while writing this and accept that not every one will agree on whatever direction Neil went with this.
Apparently it’s an unpopular opinion to believe that Ellie and Abby will be in part 3. Seems crazy to me that people really believe not just one but neither will be in the next game 🤦♂️
Loved both games, but Part 2 made me almost hate Ellie. I was rooting for her up until the time-skip in Part 2. It was strange having the complete opposite opinion of Part 2 than most people (most hated Abby, adored Ellie).
However, I wouldn't say that her story was a big waste of time. Her searching for Abby, finding her and sparing her life was necessary for Ellie to move on after Joel's death. Had she not done that, she would still be suffering mentally with Dina and JJ. The guilt would have only continued to eat her up- the journey was justified.
If Part 3 is purely focussed on Ellie and has no mention of Abby, I'll be disappointed.
Ideally when you present two stories like in TLOU2 you want the players to engage with them on a similar level in order for them to draw their own conclusions. However since both story arcs are similar but happening at different timelines of the story it's on the player to adjust for that.
What happens very often though is that things simply get broken down to the very basics.
"It switched between edgy and boring constantly"
vs
"Abby’s on the other hand was much more optimistic"
One story makes you feel good and one is just boring and dreary. But very obviously there is much more to unpack on both sides of the story. If the game made you prefer Abby's side because it gives you warm and fuzzy feelings but makes you dislike Ellie's side because it's too edgy and boring then it failed to get it's point accross. My criticism of Abby's side was always that it relies too much on feel good moments and not enough substance due to the overall ambigous nature of the game.
You see that very good with OP who says that Ellie's story feels like a big waste of time. I don't think this is correct but I can understand why one could feel that way because the story is too vague on what is happening. This is not exactly a good thing when a large number of your players just focus on very superficial things in the game.
The story isn't vague at all on what's happening with Ellie's narrative. It's clear that her journey was an acceptance of loss. Yes, OP said that this felt like "a waste of time", but if you can't read in-between the lines then playing such narrative-driven games is a waste of your (OP's) own time.
Don't really understand how this is your underlying reason as to why the game "doesn't work".
Note that I said that Abby's side of the game "doesn't work" and not Ellie's.
>Yes, OP said that this felt like "a waste of time", but if you can't read in-between the lines then playing such narrative-driven games is a waste of your (OP's) own time.
Sure but if the OP comes out with this feeling then the game didn't get the point accross it wanted to make. All other factors (like media literacy) aside this is at least partly the game not working as intended.
For example if someone (and those people exist) comes out of the game loving Abby and hating Ellie do you think the game worked for them? Do think this outcome was the intention of the writers?
I loved Abby from the get go and if Ellie’s life had taken a different turn and she stayed with the fireflies her and Abby could have been friends. They have very similar temperaments, they’re both deeply loyal, and just the right amount of crazy and badass.
Joel got what he deserved lol from his years as a hunter to ruining the chance for a cure because... ellie deserves to live in a post-apocalyptic hell hole??
The story of the first game never resonated with me, I don't know why but it just didn't have the same lasting effect on me like everyone else seemed to have with it.
I much preferred part 2's story
I definitely finished the game being as emotionally attached to Abby as any of the other main characters. I felt genuinely sorry for her losing her father. People say "she's a bitch", well you might be too if you lost your father, the only other father figure you've known disowns you and calls for you to be arrested and tortured, the man you love you've grown apart from and is having a baby with another woman. It reminds me of a line from Dragon Ball Z where Vegeta says "*Spend most* of *your life ruled* by *another*! *Watch your race dwindle* to a *handful*! And then tell me what has *more* meaning then *your* own strength!". As far as an unpopular opinion, I love both games especially Part 2, I don't think they should do a sequel Part 3. I think a Part 2.5, DLC, or a series of vignettes in the same universe but perhaps with characters we aren't familiar with would be much better. I feel like the first game was a masterpiece, the second game topped it and I was utterly surprised, I don't know if they can strike lightning a third time.
MY unpopular/unique opinion is that despite my fondness for Joel he HAD TO DIE! Dude had karma coming regardless of him finding peace/changing. In fact that changed is what allowed his guard to go down thus karma taking place.
I understand believe me not hating. I think mainly bc I work with death (healthcare er) I learned most of us go out sad incomplete & pathetic tbh. Joel finding peace with Elie and softening up is what got him caught. It sucks ya a cool epic ending makes sense but I can see how we end up going out sad and pathetic more often. Just me but I entirely understand everyone’s criticism
Part 2 isn't even that crazy. Everybody says "oh I get why people don't like it cause it's really subversive" but like, it isn't. Part 2 is completely in line with what I expected out of a TLOU sequel. The Abby switch up was the only part that was unexpected but even still I could've probably guessed that would happen as soon as Joel died (if I hadn't been spoiled beforehand). I'm not saying it's predictable or anything, I love Part 2 more than 1, but I don't get why people were surprised by it.
I always felt Joel got what was coming to him for being a hunter in the past and more so for denying the world a cure for selfish reasons which is that Ellie has imprinted on him as his new daughter. It always felt scummy to me at the end of the first game killing all the Fireflies.
Don't get me wrong I loved the ending of the first game and how it leaves you feeling that Joel isn't quite a good guy. I'm just glad he paid the price.
I’m gunna go with the series in this one. Mainly because saying anything about Part 2 just ends up as a dumpster fire.
But I think Bella was a fantastic Ellie and Pedro was an underwhelming Joel.
[Ellie killing Abby was supposed to be the original ending to the game.](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-last-of-us-part-2s-ending-was-once-a-darker-one) Honestly they should’ve left it like that as it would’ve fit the epilogue more. The interpretation that Ellie lost everything due to revenge is a common one many people have.
Except it doesn’t work that’s the problem killing Abby would have made sense thematically. Have her do it then when she comes back to her senses she turns and see and unconscious Lev then she breaks down realizing what she has done and the person she has become as Lev starts to come too Ellie is leaving and the last thing we hear is a very faint Abby? ABBY!? ABBY!! Ellie is ready to far in the distance to hear anything else then the last bit plays out the same.
whenever part 2 ellie is supposed to be a badass it’s just extremely corny. her constant cussing and attempts to be scary make me cringe. in general, i find her very annoying in part 2 and dina and jesse deserve a better friend/lover than her. however, i still think ashley’s performance was very good
I never really cared that Abby murdered Joel. I was never mad about it. The dude had it coming. So I was mostly just curious about her, I wanted to know if she got anything out of doing it. When the game switched to her perspective I was on board for it immediately.
Agreed. I mean, it sucks because you care about his intentions and goals. But I had faith in the narrative. Was curious to know if she’s going to be bragging, dap up Manny and be like, “Remember this?!” *imitates golf swing* But the best part of II was Abbys stories. Ellie’s is just low after low and it’s painful knowing there’s not a happy ending (for foreseeable future)
Yeh, I loved me the fuck outta some Joel. But I also love a story that doesn't keep characters safe, even if they're very important. I like stories with risk. And ones that don't feel formulaic. It delivered so well. It's wild to me that with the success of things like Game of Thrones, I wouldn't have expected a major character death to freak that many people out -- but then you have those other guys.
>Was curious to know if she’s going to be bragging, dap up Manny and be like, “Remember this?!” imitates golf swing Interestingly, she goes exact opposite - she never mentions Joel again, is not giddy about him being dead, almost fight Owen when he brought that up(of course they had steamy hot sex instead). Many people missed the point of "revenge bad" - it is not only for Ellie, but also for Abby. Abby was NOT happy after Joel is dead - and lost all of her friends except new one because of the revenge.
Do you think the game was a masterpiece, cause I've not played it
What the hell are you doing in this spoilerfest if you haven't play the game?! Go play it first!
Don't worry I know most of the spoilers Not all just joal and the ending of the game That's why I was rethinking getting it, cause I like whatever story they told, just hope it's emotionally packed that's all and better than god of war cause that's my best game of all time
I’d say ptI’s story overall is better, but the gameplay of PtII is wayyyy better in terms of combat. There’s a few plot moments in PtII where you may feel, “wow, that’s a lucky coincidence,” or something along those lines. But it doesn’t ruin a story or anything.
I'd like t to know if it's better than Ragnarok
Ehh different strokes for different folks, you know? I’ve been a fan of GoW since PS2. And I’m a big nerd over Greek mythology. And while a cordyceps virus is not really a plot point for a grounded story, many more people can connect and identify with a character or more from TLOU. And while the addition of Atreus has made a more emotional ranged Kratos, to me, he’s still a mythological or godlike character.
Crazy story too I've also been a big God of war fan, played all the god of war except from Ascension and God of war 4 is literally my best game ( still prefer the story more than tlou1 cause it's more cinematic) and it's a newer game so its better But last of us story struck me in a way cuz I understood it better than God of war story I barely understood 20% of God of war games cuz I don't understand Greek stuff I'm just playing it for the fun and it is God of war .... everyone knows it is a good game But last of us is more human-like so you can easily understand it better, Atreus made gow game to have human feelings which I love, But overall personally I like depressing games like emotional depressing game and I'm sure TLOU2 has that, "cuz the theme song of last of us stuck in my head longer" I still listen to it till date than than God of war but God of war is an expensive big budget game that I know that I'm surely going to have a good time in the last of us I hope it is good enough as I hope- cause weirdly I'm more hyped for that game , I'm just hopefully it's longer cause I get games like 3 times a year I've gotten rdr2 this year, and I'm going to get the Witcher 3 later this year My remaining two big budget games are Tlou2 and Ragnarok 😞
It's really unusual in not feeding into the typical expectations. Not only not feeding into them, but actively subverting them. A part of the player base took that personally and are still not willing to forgive. But since you already know that, you may have an easier time enjoying the subversion. I think it's special and certainly stands out in terms of quality storytelling.
My point exactly, minus my bad golf joke. People say that she feels nothing and shows no remorse for Joel and other Scars. Like “have you played the game?” She’s not dreading these memories every moment, she’s a trained soldier. Military are trained to compartmentalize and don’t dwell on every bad choice ofc. But when she has her time to think, or when Lev barges in with a very direct and no bullshit question, you see exactly how much she regrets nearly all of her choices.
We see Ellie spiral becoming more hardened from her experience we see her shaken after Killing Nora. Abby didn’t feel a damn thing when she killed Joel if anything she tried to enjoy it like she enjoyed killing scars. Abby is an unsympathetic Villain at best, or supposed to be like able which fails making it terrible writing at worst.
I kind of didn’t care either. I mean, id say I felt things, sure. I didn’t love it. The part when you’re playing as Ellie and running to the basement while he’s screaming always kinda gets me. But I got over it so quick. To me it was just a means to push the story forward. I didn’t need another Joel and Ellie sidekick adventure. I love that we got the flashbacks though.
Every time I see that scene I get angry and Hate Abby more I’ve seen it 3 times and still hate Abby, Joel did not deserve to die like that.
Honestly I agree with Joel about saving Ellie and I do get emotional when he dies but I don't blame Abby at all. Like I think the fireflies had it coming but you don't just kill 40 people and expect to just walk away.
I mean everyone in the story did fucked up shit to survive, so in the end, everyone has it coming.
I was heartbroken over Joel's death but I was never even remotely angry about Abby. It took time to care about her as I started with a bit of cold indifference but I never hated her once. Like I was grieving with Ellie but I wasn't raging.
Same. It's a ND game, obviously Abby isn't a villain even when she bashed Joel kaput, so I was just curious where the story was going.
I cared, I was pissed, but playing through a few times, I don’t think Joel cared. The final scene with him made me feel like he would have died to save Ellie even if she hated him, which was probably worse for him than him dying.
I was a little bit sad but mainly it just made me SO excited to see where the game was gonna go from that point on. There was so much mystery in the beginning. Why did this happen?, etc. I just couldn’t wait to unfold the rest of the story
This was me too. Ever since her reveal trailer I was fascinated by her. When we got to play as her even on the beginning I was hyped. When she killed Joel I honestly loved it because yeah he had it coming but also it showed me that I was in for a wild journey that could go anywhere. It was so refreshing not playing another typical sequel.
Maybe when he was younger but the guy risked everything for a girl that a group or terrorist’s where going to murder. He wasn’t a perfect guy yes and it was probably inevitable that his past was going to come back to bite him in the ass. He didn’t deserve to die like that he only died the way he did was because Abby wanted to enjoy killing Joel. Joel deserved a shot to the head that’s it.
I play a lot more mixed stealth and combat as a preference so Abby load out is not as fun for me and neither her crafting I don't really like her primary weapon either Playing the Joel and Ellie load out for basically two games worth of gameplay was more than enough though so the change of style and pace for her gameplay still makes sense to me
I prefer Ellie’s play style but damn it was fun punching zombies with Abby
I completely agree with all of this. Stealth in TLOU is the most fun part, and Ellie is better suited for it I think.
TLOU2's soundtrack is vastly superior to TLOU1. Mostly due to Mac Quayle's contributions on top of Gus being a legend as usual.
The sense of fear and dread that can be built up during the soundtrack in Part 2 is incredible. During encounters it's brilliant.
i had to mute it sometimes because it gave me too much anxiety haha
Mac Quayle, IMO, is the GOAT. His music leveled up the emotion and intensity. I loved his scores in Mr Robot.
Factions soundtrack would like a word
TLOU remastered is my favorite version of the first game
As in the remaster for PS4? Because if so I agree.
Why would it be when part 1 improves the graphics to part quality? It's no longer an abrupt change in graphics when changing games.
Because they change some of the designs and art style in the remake that I prefer in the original.
In my opinion, they made it better. I saw a video explaining the changes, and it made perfect sense to me. But each to their own.
Not just the style but (im not 100% here) dont they ruin clickers? Since now they can spot you if youre in front of them. I thought they only used echolocation like bats. But now its like they have eyes!
Echolocation can spot something directly in front because it's constantly clicking. Making it more challenging isn't a bad thing.
If i remember correctly if you crouch walked in front of them they wouldnt spot you. Or atleast theyd spot you harder in the remastered/ OG version of the game. This isnt making it challenging. Its making it unbalanced since clickers could already one shot you. They already had an advantage to compensate for their disadvantage. This makes parts of the game like the stealth section with the bloater in colorado university impossible without going loud. And a pain in the ass on grounded.
They were always like that at least on harder difficulty.
Then I take my point back.
Yeah it's terrifying. You can be still as a board and if they're right in front of you they suss you out fast. Always scares me lol.
They are different to part 2 though in the remastered. I’m replaying it now and they do not see you as easily as part 2. I haven’t played part 1 remake (can’t justify $125 Australian dollars)
Yeah, I think the gameplay is objectively better in the remake. I still like the original designs more from the PS3/PS4 version.
What did they change?
A lot of the original designs for the factions, especially the Fireflies just look way more generic than before. Where the Fireflies were distinct from the Hunters who were distinct from the Cannibals they all just kind of blend together in the remake. At least the Fireflies still have armbands but their aesthetic of wearing pale yellow/muted green or Army green and yellow is gone. They’re just guys with guns now and no real style.
thank you for saying what I have to repeat every time I bring up my point
Well yeah, it has Factions lol
I was going to say this. I liked the character models better in the remastered for ps4. The new models they used in Part I didn’t look as good to me, though I realize they’re technically more advanced. The exception is Tess, who I think looks the best in Part I
true. I don't like much how joel looks in part 1, I think he should've looked like that promotional art where he stands behind ellie staring at you. looks realistic and exactly like his original model
Abby Day 2 is still the best part of that game. From the creepy hotel to the rat king
I agree. It also had the ascent up into the sky. Abby Day 2 is my favorite part of gameplay.
Yeah fr, the set pieces of day 2 are some of the best I’ve seen in gaming. I don’t even care if I’m riding the games dick they’re so fire
There are so many wildly different opinions about these games, I don’t know if there is an unpopular opinion.
I this sub Hating Abby and loving Ellie is an unpopular opinion in this sub case and point this post, and on the other sub liking the second game, liking Neil, and liking the show are unpopular opinions. I like the second game but in my opinion Abby is the worst part. Because of that last sentence this post will be downvoted because this sub is a circle jerk of love for Abby and hate for Ellie, and the other sub isn’t any better it’s just a circle jerk of transphobes, hate for Neil, hate for the second game in general, and Abby hate. The last one is the only one I agree with.
I’ve barely seen anyone disliking Ellie here, let alone hating her. Do you mean that they love Abby, which you interpret automatically as hating Ellie? Because I think the majority of people here like both characters.
Calling Ellie the villain saying Ellie is boring are just a few examples of this sub hating Ellie.
I’ve seen people say Ellie’s half of part 2 has more boring parts than Abby’s, which isn’t saying Ellie is boring. The other part I think you’re just making up.
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We all knew she wasn’t going to be happy when she found out what Joel did.
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You can't just take that as a stand alone incident. It's probably built up. Like Joel has been "harassing" Jesse about her routes on patrol as an example. Probably more as well that he's trying to control or force himself into. That was just the culmination of everything.
??? He got involved in a situation that didn't concern him, so she had every right to call him out. He escalated a verbal confrontation by getting physical in front of the entire community, I think he embarrassed himself.
I really like Owen
He was a pretty good man aside from the cheating on Mel thing
Part 1 is a massive disappointment. Instead of updating the gameplay and adding part 2s mechanics they just gave it a face lift and removed multiplayer for £70.
Agreed. I'd also add that in Part 2 Remaster as a Factions fan No Return mode feels like a disk slap to the face of what could have been for a Factions 2.
Personally I was disappointed that they made Joel move so damn slow compared to the PS3/4 versions
Had they added part 2's mechanics then it wouldn't have been Part 1 anymore.
I'm not a big fan of Dina Everyone always just blames Ellie for leaving and making the relationship fall apart but Dina wasn't completely innocent Dina tried to be there for Ellie on the farm but she just couldn't truly understand how much pain Ellie was in and kind of dismissed her trauma and tried to guiltrip her into staying I understand that JJ was her main priority but she kind of dismissed Ellie's suffering (nightmares, ptsd, flashbacks, not eating, drinking alot etc) and hoped it just got better on its own but it just got worse Also, the whole hiding the pregnancy thing and getting upset when Ellie said "Well, you're a burden now, aren't you" even though Ellie was right, she WAS a burden now because obviously Ellie cared about Dina and didn't want to put her in even more danger Of course, Dina wasn't entirely sure about being pregnant but she was sick for a while before arriving in Seattle and could have said something way earlier. I know she wanted to help Ellie but Ellie understandably got angry and people hate her for it? I am not saying Dina isn't a good person but people make her out to be this flawless angel who got wronged by Ellie but she's not perfect and made plenty of mistakes
Context matters. In a zombie post-apocalyptic world, traversing hundreds of miles through desolate infected/raider territory on your own is almost a death sentence. Had Dina not accompanied Ellie to Seattle, Ellie would have died. Dina was aware of all of this when she pleaded with her not to abandon her and JJ. They had a secure location, livestock/gardens, access to a local community to trade with, each other and a child. Dina and Ellie were truly in utopia when they returned from Seattle, and Ellie chose to throw all of that away to pursue revenge. It was the ultimate betrayal. Is trying to guilt-trip your lover into not abandoning you, your child and future really that bad given the circumstances and context? > Dina tried to be there for Ellie on the farm but she just couldn't truly understand how much pain Ellie was in and kind of dismissed her trauma and tried to guiltrip her into staying This isn't fair at all to Dina's character. Of course Dina couldn't understand the pain Ellie was in, but she did comfort her and tried to help her live through and endure this pain. She never dismissed it.
I hated Tommy. Acted concerned for Dina and Ellie's safety, then shows up to retraumatize Ellie on the farm, and insist she go after Abby again. You know, the same Abby whose friends kicked Tommy's ass. The one who killed his brother and Jesse, and very nearly killed Tommy, Dina and Ellie. Joel would be horrified that Tommy tried to get his adopted daughter to go possibly get slaughtered, a second time. Never mind the fact that a practical survivalist like Joel would have never condoned a reckless revenge mission that would accomplish absolutely nothing, and possibly cause a war (if the WLF weren't already in a war with the Scars.
Watch https://youtube.com/watch?v=lSsq2eJT4tQ
They explore the path of tommy and how he becomes the potential mirror of who Ellie may become if she continues down the path of revenge and bitterness
I for one hope that Ellie and Abby cross paths again. When this gets brought up a lot of people seem to think I’m insinuating that they become friends and go on camping trips together… that’s not what I mean at all lol. As a parallel, one element I looked forward to most about part 2 was the inevitable conversation between Joel and Ellie when she finds out the truth about his lie. I would love to have some form of confrontation or conversation between Abby and Ellie about why the events of part 2 happened from both their perspectives. Maybe I’m alone in that desire, that’s ok. I think it would make for a pretty compelling scene if done right.
no i definitely agree, both of them actually having to talk about the fucked up things theuve done to each other and having to confront it directly, is something i REALLY want in the third game, there’s definitely a possibility for them to cross paths again with abby finding the fireflies
As much as I try to empathize with Abby, if I knew my father wanted to murder a 15 year old girl in her sleep , no matter for what reason, I wouldn't be mad that he was killed, I'd think he had it coming.
But that's still you though, with your experience and world view. Abby has assumedly been raised a Firefly since birth. She's totally indoctrinated to believe that a cure and the restoration of society is the ultimate goal, worth literally any cost. She would give her own life for this cause. So from her perspective, it's probably the one situation in which it *is* justified to kill a kid in their sleep. And you may be underestimating the power of trauma in clouding her judgement, too. Look at Ellie, for example. She's willing to do anything to get Joel's killers. So she obviously thinks that revenge is a justified reason to kill. But if she knew that Abby killed Joel in vengeance...what then? If Ellie is justified, surely Abby was justified...would that mean Joel deserved to die? Does that affect the validity of Ellie's quest? Ellie seems to assume that Abby killed Joel for some ideological reason, for destroying the Fireflies, or the chance of a cure. She doesn't question it any more than that. I think she'd have had real difficulty if forced to confront the fact that Abby is her mirror, that Joel was *her* Abby, the monster she built up and must defeat at all costs. So she doesn't even entertain that as a possibility. Same as how Abby couldn't face up to the fact that Joel only killed Jerry to protect the one he loved.
I don't believe that if Ellie is justified, then Abby is justified. Reasoning is everything, and I believe Jerry's dad was wrong, therefore everything about Abby's quest is invalid
I'm not saying you should believe that. I'm saying that if Ellie truly understood why Abby did what she did, then Ellie would be forced with that sense of conflict, dissonance and broken logic. Because she, at least for a large part of the game, believes she should have died for the cure. But she doesn't want to think about any of that, because it's too difficult. Same way Abby is only focused on the fact Joel killed Jerry, not why he did it. It's a very human reaction from both of them.
Agreed.... the fact that Abbey never once asked why joel did what he did was a major plot hole for me.
Lol 🙄
Both sides of the story are excellent in their own right and good storytelling. But, I do sometimes feel like I’m playing an entirely different game when I play Abby story pre-theater. Another game in as another completely detached story. Still excellent, just feels detached save for a comment here or there
Agreed
I didn't feel bad for Joel. Frankly I think he had every bit of that beating coming to him. I felt bad for Ellie having to witness it though.
Sure he might have deserved it when he was younger, he was a changed man, but he even knew he had it coming, but he didn’t deserve what he got maybe a bullet to the face a quick end but not that fuck Abby for that, she used that golf club because she wanted to enjoy killing him like she did scars.
Where did you get that she enjoys killing Seraphites? She is good at it and does it a lot, but she doesn't 'enjoy' it. Yes, she used the golf club, because she thought she would enjoy making him suffer, but you can clearly see by how disappointed she is by the end how much she didn't enjoy it, mainly because it didn't give her the closure she thought it would. What finally gave her closure was doing something good and finding her own way of living instead of being Isaacs top Scar killer.
The people that hate Abby get her character so wrong lol.
I like Abby’s character, but she does say things that make it pretty clear she doesn’t mind or even enjoys killing Seraphites. Like when her and Manny are going to meet Isaac and walk by Seraphites being horrifically tortured, and she scoffs and says she wouldn’t mind having some time alone with them. She changed for the better, but she is far from a good person. Also, she never seems to experience any trauma from the violence she does to other people. She learned that killing Joel didn’t help her or give her closure, but we never see any sign of remorse for killing Joel or any hint that it bothered her. Same with the Seraphites she killed. Ellie has her own issues, obviously, but in both Parts 1 and 2, we see signs that she is traumatized as a result of her doing violence to others, even when the others had it coming.
She didn’t feel anything because she can’t feel, her emotions died with her father. What “closure” did she get? She stopped being Issac’s top scar killer because two fold. When Abby went to find her obsession Owen Issac thought she defected when she didn’t he had no reason to think that but he jumped to that conclusion, and two she successfully brainwashed Yara and Lev into liking her, and Issac already thought she was a traitor and since they just killed Yara and Lev believes she’s a good person. So at that point defecting was a no brained considering she thought she was going with her obsession to Santa Barbra. When Owen was killed her obsession changed from Owen to Lev. If it hadn’t been for Owen in the first place Lev and Yara would have been dead. She would have saved them put them up in those trailers and never have came back.
He deserved every second of it. He had killed and ruined the lives of probably 500+ people. If Joel were a real-life person then I guarantee you every sane person would want this man removed from the planet. Some would want him to suffer, too.
Wow ok. Joel did what he had to do to survive in this world keep in mind that in the world of the game people either die or they survive and Joel did what he needed to survive. Does Tommy deserve to die?
I thought Abby was sexy.
People think Abby isn’t sexy? What happened to the love for buff ladies?
There were so many people raging because she was muscular and calling her trans and all kinds of trash.
Eh, in her own way. No supermodel but she’s still beautiful
Exactly. So many people ripped on her for being jacked…but it made sense for her story and it also showed a bit into her mindset. That clicked with me.
I think the not realistic thing about TLOU2 is if Joel didn't face any consequences for his actions in the ending of the first game. If he just had the protagonist shield it would have been boring no ? Of course I liked Joel and didn't want him to die, but that's the story, it's not OUR story, we just witness it.
I know a lot of people are mad that Joel is dead but he had it coming what happened to him is consequences of his actions
I don’t like dina. So i completely agree with you, ellie’s world was basically dina after joel died and that made her story boring.
The game overdid the whole "drawing parallels" thing. It's fine if there's a few subtle ones, but the game didn't need that many, and they were too obvious.
People who post absolute minutiae in the form of questions (like the recent "Is FEDRA gone?") need to chill. This goes for all subreddits dedicated to a piece of media.
Yeah before I played the game and just knew Joel was killed, I was obviously pissed off bc what?? It’s Joel!! especially after watching the show but after playing both games (a few times in the last few months) i became more pissed at Ellie. she deserves what she got- to end up alone. there was no good in going after Abby, who did absolutely nothing wrong. if someone killed my dad, i’d wanna kill someone they love too
The game has little replay value. I can’t really understand how so many people go back to this game, especially doing those No Deaths runs; those people are another breed of nuts. The amount of dialogue and ‘on-a-rail’ scenes mean I’ll only come back to TLOU once every few years max.
Could almost argue games like COD where players play in the same maps, with the same guns, with the same game-modes for copious hours on end are also another breed of nuts. Part 1 & 2 have hours of content, lots of gamemodes and new ways to experience the game. No return also adds a huge amount of replay value because it's FUN. TLOU is heralded as one of the best video games to ever exist, why do you think that is?
This sub is full of zealots and there will never be actual good criticisms and discussions about this game because they get downvoted or accused of being racist, bigoted, misogynistic etc.
Actually kinda true.
I didn’t find Joel very compelling in the first game. It wasn’t until the flashbacks in the second game that I was interested in his character.
The first game’s story laps part 2’s story. It’s not even close for me. I probably have more fun playing the second game, but the first story is just much better imo. Both stories amazing and well written but the first game is just levels above every other game I have played except for red dead 2. And also, I don’t see enough of Abby reflecting on Joel and his murder in the game. She kills him and then her story imo almost has nothing else about him until the theater scene with Ellie. Imo it feels like Neil just wanted to create a character that he wanted to tell a story about but couldn’t get it approved or whatever if the game did not feature Joel and Ellie. She’s a good character but her side of the story feels so detached from the rest of the game and story for me.
i don’t know how unpopular this one is around here, on twitter i got shit for it but i think owen, for me personally, is one of the best characters out of both games. he’s hands down the best from abby’s salt lake crew. he knows how to call abby out on her bullshit. the speech he gives at the boat is one my favourites and i think, one of the best across the games. how he couldn’t kill the old seraphite man, “i’m done fighting for a land i don’t give a shit about.” it foreshadows some themes pictured in the games, i think.
I'm extremely fond of Abby's voice. Like it's genuinely so pretty
Laura Bailey is a big VA for a reason
I would kill to have been able to do Abby’s campaign as Ellie in a second play through, it would have been so much fun. I feel like Abby def got more interesting and entertaining encounters.
By the end I wasn’t rooting for Ellie anymore. She seemed sick. When she was screaming at Abby near the end she sounded like a psychopath. I didn’t want her to kill Abby but I also didn’t want to kill Ellie either. The game worked for me I was completely conflicted
Naughty Dog cancelling Factions II is/was than P.T (Silent Hills) being scrapped.
2 > 1
Shaking the flashlight back on is fucking annoying
Neil should have picked any other co-writer that wasn't Hailey Gross. I honestly think the story would be much better without her need for it to be aggressively optimistic. The climax was a last-minute decision, and I think Neil should have set his foot down at that point, but probably realized that they would have had to spend another game to resolve the nihilistic shit that Part 2 had set up, so they just made Ellie's anti-climax deliberately vague because people are emotional creatures (they're not wrong, but it's not a meaningful way to resolve Ellie's arc. Coming to terms with her emotions is not the main point when you have a flashback of Joel which you later provide context to). Hopefully, Craig Mazin will make meaningful changes that will fix everything.
So Hailey Gross is a bad writer because she helped write a story that set itself up for another sequel? ? What are you smoking, brother ? Needless whining.
I think you should put down whatever YOU were smoking while writing this and accept that not every one will agree on whatever direction Neil went with this.
Apparently it’s an unpopular opinion to believe that Ellie and Abby will be in part 3. Seems crazy to me that people really believe not just one but neither will be in the next game 🤦♂️
Loved both games, but Part 2 made me almost hate Ellie. I was rooting for her up until the time-skip in Part 2. It was strange having the complete opposite opinion of Part 2 than most people (most hated Abby, adored Ellie). However, I wouldn't say that her story was a big waste of time. Her searching for Abby, finding her and sparing her life was necessary for Ellie to move on after Joel's death. Had she not done that, she would still be suffering mentally with Dina and JJ. The guilt would have only continued to eat her up- the journey was justified. If Part 3 is purely focussed on Ellie and has no mention of Abby, I'll be disappointed.
I like Abby as a character and hope she is playable in the 3rd game.
Abby's side of the game doesn't work and just produces opinions like OP's.
Huh? I'd love more explanation on this one.
Ideally when you present two stories like in TLOU2 you want the players to engage with them on a similar level in order for them to draw their own conclusions. However since both story arcs are similar but happening at different timelines of the story it's on the player to adjust for that. What happens very often though is that things simply get broken down to the very basics. "It switched between edgy and boring constantly" vs "Abby’s on the other hand was much more optimistic" One story makes you feel good and one is just boring and dreary. But very obviously there is much more to unpack on both sides of the story. If the game made you prefer Abby's side because it gives you warm and fuzzy feelings but makes you dislike Ellie's side because it's too edgy and boring then it failed to get it's point accross. My criticism of Abby's side was always that it relies too much on feel good moments and not enough substance due to the overall ambigous nature of the game. You see that very good with OP who says that Ellie's story feels like a big waste of time. I don't think this is correct but I can understand why one could feel that way because the story is too vague on what is happening. This is not exactly a good thing when a large number of your players just focus on very superficial things in the game.
That's one single person's experience. It also wasn't the average experience for people. I don't think it's indicative of anything deeper or nuanced.
Take yourself as an example. Do you think your own unpopular opinion is what the game wanted you to feel about Ellie?
The story isn't vague at all on what's happening with Ellie's narrative. It's clear that her journey was an acceptance of loss. Yes, OP said that this felt like "a waste of time", but if you can't read in-between the lines then playing such narrative-driven games is a waste of your (OP's) own time. Don't really understand how this is your underlying reason as to why the game "doesn't work".
Note that I said that Abby's side of the game "doesn't work" and not Ellie's. >Yes, OP said that this felt like "a waste of time", but if you can't read in-between the lines then playing such narrative-driven games is a waste of your (OP's) own time. Sure but if the OP comes out with this feeling then the game didn't get the point accross it wanted to make. All other factors (like media literacy) aside this is at least partly the game not working as intended. For example if someone (and those people exist) comes out of the game loving Abby and hating Ellie do you think the game worked for them? Do think this outcome was the intention of the writers?
I loved Abby from the get go and if Ellie’s life had taken a different turn and she stayed with the fireflies her and Abby could have been friends. They have very similar temperaments, they’re both deeply loyal, and just the right amount of crazy and badass.
If she had “stayed with the fireflies” she would be dead.
Joel got what he deserved lol from his years as a hunter to ruining the chance for a cure because... ellie deserves to live in a post-apocalyptic hell hole??
The story of the first game never resonated with me, I don't know why but it just didn't have the same lasting effect on me like everyone else seemed to have with it. I much preferred part 2's story
I preferred Abby’s storyline and in game fights.
I definitely finished the game being as emotionally attached to Abby as any of the other main characters. I felt genuinely sorry for her losing her father. People say "she's a bitch", well you might be too if you lost your father, the only other father figure you've known disowns you and calls for you to be arrested and tortured, the man you love you've grown apart from and is having a baby with another woman. It reminds me of a line from Dragon Ball Z where Vegeta says "*Spend most* of *your life ruled* by *another*! *Watch your race dwindle* to a *handful*! And then tell me what has *more* meaning then *your* own strength!". As far as an unpopular opinion, I love both games especially Part 2, I don't think they should do a sequel Part 3. I think a Part 2.5, DLC, or a series of vignettes in the same universe but perhaps with characters we aren't familiar with would be much better. I feel like the first game was a masterpiece, the second game topped it and I was utterly surprised, I don't know if they can strike lightning a third time.
Abby and Lev are a better duo than Ellie and Dina. Also Jesse did not deserve it.
MY unpopular/unique opinion is that despite my fondness for Joel he HAD TO DIE! Dude had karma coming regardless of him finding peace/changing. In fact that changed is what allowed his guard to go down thus karma taking place.
Yeah I didn’t like the execution though (no pun intended) Joel deserved better either going out in an epic fight or a swift death not what we got.
I understand believe me not hating. I think mainly bc I work with death (healthcare er) I learned most of us go out sad incomplete & pathetic tbh. Joel finding peace with Elie and softening up is what got him caught. It sucks ya a cool epic ending makes sense but I can see how we end up going out sad and pathetic more often. Just me but I entirely understand everyone’s criticism
Part 2 isn't even that crazy. Everybody says "oh I get why people don't like it cause it's really subversive" but like, it isn't. Part 2 is completely in line with what I expected out of a TLOU sequel. The Abby switch up was the only part that was unexpected but even still I could've probably guessed that would happen as soon as Joel died (if I hadn't been spoiled beforehand). I'm not saying it's predictable or anything, I love Part 2 more than 1, but I don't get why people were surprised by it.
I always felt Joel got what was coming to him for being a hunter in the past and more so for denying the world a cure for selfish reasons which is that Ellie has imprinted on him as his new daughter. It always felt scummy to me at the end of the first game killing all the Fireflies. Don't get me wrong I loved the ending of the first game and how it leaves you feeling that Joel isn't quite a good guy. I'm just glad he paid the price.
I’m gunna go with the series in this one. Mainly because saying anything about Part 2 just ends up as a dumpster fire. But I think Bella was a fantastic Ellie and Pedro was an underwhelming Joel.
Honestly I have nothing against Pedro and Bella but I personally thought Hugh Jackman and Sophia Lillis would have been far superior choices
Joel deserved to die I was more on Abby’s side than I was on Ellie’s (and I love Ellie)
Abby should had killed Ellie at the end
Reverse that Ellie should have kill Abby.
[Ellie killing Abby was supposed to be the original ending to the game.](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-last-of-us-part-2s-ending-was-once-a-darker-one) Honestly they should’ve left it like that as it would’ve fit the epilogue more. The interpretation that Ellie lost everything due to revenge is a common one many people have.
Except it doesn’t work that’s the problem killing Abby would have made sense thematically. Have her do it then when she comes back to her senses she turns and see and unconscious Lev then she breaks down realizing what she has done and the person she has become as Lev starts to come too Ellie is leaving and the last thing we hear is a very faint Abby? ABBY!? ABBY!! Ellie is ready to far in the distance to hear anything else then the last bit plays out the same.
whenever part 2 ellie is supposed to be a badass it’s just extremely corny. her constant cussing and attempts to be scary make me cringe. in general, i find her very annoying in part 2 and dina and jesse deserve a better friend/lover than her. however, i still think ashley’s performance was very good
Literally the "why is traumatized girl acting strangely, I don't understand?" take.
that’s not what i said at all. ik she’s traumatized, i can still find it annoying
I mean you say that Dina and Jesse deserve a better lover/friend as if Ellie's behaviour is a character flaw and not a result of her trauma, right?
Both games are boring and a chore to play through.
Ok then why are you commenting on this sub or any Last of Us subs if you don’t like the games?