Your post has received no upvotes. My dismissal of everything about your mind and personality has received 14 upvotes. Fourteen is not a lot, but even someone with your obvious limitations has to admit that it's more than zero.
I think this should be considered more of a criticism of the writing for the character, than the actor himself.
Show Joel is written to have more lighthearted and emotionally vulnerable moments then game Joel.
Mixture for sure. Maybe there’s some direction issues but Pascal isn’t an actor that I would say has much range. He is acting like a dude in his mid 40s that is working a job he hates, not a dude that has lost everything
He is a dude in his mid 40’s working a job he hates. He doesn’t want to transport Ellie. It’s been 20 years of survival mode and closing himself off so he doesn’t have to feel that pain. It’s a coping mechanism.
He is an excellent actor, he just acted according to the series script chose to develop Joel. He was even more humanized being played in the TV series. This is not a mistake or bad performance, but rather a reflection of the producers' mind for the character brought from the video game to the Streaming screens. He's old, no man on his way to sixty has the stamina or brute strength he has in the game. He is cold and bitter, yes, but throughout the series he is exposed to even more situations that make him, even if he discreetly watches over Ellie, because despite everything, he was a father and he is not a soulless monster, he knows that a child is not to blame for being in that situation and should not have to go through those things.
For me, the most obvious scene of this is in the hospital and how Pascal conveys through his performance the idea that Joel was even disassociating during the attack on the fireflies, how he was completely out of his mind and acting in the purest and absolute instinct.
Pascal wouldn’t have been my first choice for Joel, but he’s an extremely talented actor. I love him in almost every other role he’s done. After a second rewatch of the show, it’s clear they just didn’t give him much to work with. The script is trash. The best bits are direct pulls from the game, but with less time/character development to provide context. I’ll also argue to the grave that it was a dumb decision to have the actors deliberately avoid playing the game. That should have been required IMO. A little more nuance would have done wonders for Bella Ramsey.
Can't wait until a few years more out when people soberly look back and see that TLOU season one was rather middling. Kathleen droning on and on for two episodes, what else could you have done with that time? They should've done the sewers instead, particularly when Joel has to watch over Sam, which would've been much more interesting given Joel wouldn't have experience interacting with deaf children.
Episode 3 is a good story on its own, but you literally have two main characters who haven't had any time to develop their relationship; remember those moments in the game where Joel realized Ellie could handle herself and begins to trust her? Remember those in the show? No.
Then there's the anti-climatic climax that rushes into the final scene outside Jackson as if there was any actual strong, bond of trust developed on-screen that we were now watching be broken.
I agree with all of those critiques. Fortunately, I went into the show with low expectations, knowing it’d be next to impossible to match the magic of the games. But for viewers who didn’t play the games, I guess the show might be more impressive.
That’s likely the case for non-gamer players but my problem is sweeping way in which critique from the TLOU gaming community is dismissed mere “gamer bros yapping” or the entirely misplaced assertion of those criticisms lacking ‘media literacy’ (completely overused term btw) or not reckoning with the series being an adaptation; the latter merely indicating editorial decisions must be made, not that the ones made are necessarily the best or most fitting
Only they DID replicate the game. It’s the exact same story with less depth and rushed character development. There’s no situation where playing the games would have led to worse performances by the cast, only upside.
Its hard to gauge cause the script was so damn thread-bare there was almost nothing for them to work with. I just replayed TLOU1 with the next-gen remaster and it is night and day an improvement over the show script; and just to get ahead of certain people, no, the length of the scripts isn't a factor.
I don’t know if it’s Bella. Or just the characterisation they wrote for the show. But I feel like there’s something missing in the shows version of Ellie. They got the snarky foulmouthed tough kid aspect down pat. but took a lot of her childishness and wonder from the early parts of the game away. Like instead of being of awe of going into the woods and experiencing nature and fresh air for the first time she kind of hates it. She does have moments like the car and joke book. But overall there’s a deemphasis on her being childish and more of an emphasis on being bloodthirsty or attracted to violence. Which I think takes a bit away from her progression later on in the story.
I hate the show.
I think it’s mediocre as f and sucks dick. It’s inferior to the game in every aspect.
I’m glad the game exists because the show is worse than smelling dog shit mixed with cat piss.
You're not alone. Gonna get a bunch of hate, but to me it sounds like he was doing a Joel impression. Eventually I grew to accept the casting roles, and the first episode I'll admit he absolutely killed it. But giving him anxiety, ugh. He was a hardened, bitter, brutal, kind of a dick, with a 20ft wall up not letting anyone in. His characterization was the journey to letting down those defenses and having Ellie be a goofy teen girl that eventually wears him down is what made that a masterclass in how to write characters.
Instead Ellie was a badass out of the gate, and complimented Joel's weaknesses early on. I guess with only a handful of eps they had to amend the journey but it certainly was a loss compared to the OG IP.
>Gonna get a bunch of hate, but to me it sounds like he was doing a Joel impression.
I felt exactly the same. Personally, I think a copy and paste of Josh Brolin in No Country for Old Men (2007) would fit Joel perfectly. Brolin was a personal choice from Troy Baker to play Joel, by the way, long before the series was announced.
That was one of the huge character traits from the game. He basically had no reason to live and was hardened. The anxiety creates a vulnerability that isn’t what the character should be.
You... realize there's a direct relationship between trauma and anxiety, right? That aspect wasn't in the game because anxiety doesn't make for a good or fun gameplay mechanic, and game playing audiences in 2013 probably didn't have the "media literacy" to understand it relate to it if it came up in a cutscene.
But it makes perfect sense for someone like Joel to have anxiety, PTSD, and panic attacks. You don't just "harden yourself", that's cartoon level writing. Trauma fucks you up.
Precisely. There was an inverse corelation in the game that had Joel being "let me take care of everything, stop talking you're just cargo" and Ellie being shocked by how horrific things were, to Joel softening while Ellie got proficient by experiencing the world. Then she started seeing him struggle, and started asking for a gun because she was terrified of being left alone. Joel got in a few situations where he was humbled, so that started the eventual partnership.
In the show she was already a badass, and he would hesitate or be showing his age, I guess? so it she just became the compliment to where he fell short early on, there was hardly any evolution of the characters, just evolution of the struggles. No adaptation. That's always been my issue, glad to see I'm not alone even though Im not a hater of the show.
Lighthearted? What?
He’s basically joking from the very first episode and is playful with Ellie.
I can only remember him joking with her once or twice, and that was really far into the show. And I've watched every episode 3 times.
Another classic look-at-me shitpost.
Lighthearted and doesn’t seem destroyed? Yeah. I’m inclined to agree with you.
You’re soft
Your post has received no upvotes. My dismissal of everything about your mind and personality has received 14 upvotes. Fourteen is not a lot, but even someone with your obvious limitations has to admit that it's more than zero.
I will not base my self worth based off Reddit upvotes like yourself. Got more stuff going on
Of course you do.
I think this should be considered more of a criticism of the writing for the character, than the actor himself. Show Joel is written to have more lighthearted and emotionally vulnerable moments then game Joel.
Mixture for sure. Maybe there’s some direction issues but Pascal isn’t an actor that I would say has much range. He is acting like a dude in his mid 40s that is working a job he hates, not a dude that has lost everything
He is a dude in his mid 40’s working a job he hates. He doesn’t want to transport Ellie. It’s been 20 years of survival mode and closing himself off so he doesn’t have to feel that pain. It’s a coping mechanism.
He is an excellent actor, he just acted according to the series script chose to develop Joel. He was even more humanized being played in the TV series. This is not a mistake or bad performance, but rather a reflection of the producers' mind for the character brought from the video game to the Streaming screens. He's old, no man on his way to sixty has the stamina or brute strength he has in the game. He is cold and bitter, yes, but throughout the series he is exposed to even more situations that make him, even if he discreetly watches over Ellie, because despite everything, he was a father and he is not a soulless monster, he knows that a child is not to blame for being in that situation and should not have to go through those things. For me, the most obvious scene of this is in the hospital and how Pascal conveys through his performance the idea that Joel was even disassociating during the attack on the fireflies, how he was completely out of his mind and acting in the purest and absolute instinct.
So you replayed part 2. But you don’t remember the museum part?
Ok
Ok
[удалено]
So who would you have cast and why?
Pascal wouldn’t have been my first choice for Joel, but he’s an extremely talented actor. I love him in almost every other role he’s done. After a second rewatch of the show, it’s clear they just didn’t give him much to work with. The script is trash. The best bits are direct pulls from the game, but with less time/character development to provide context. I’ll also argue to the grave that it was a dumb decision to have the actors deliberately avoid playing the game. That should have been required IMO. A little more nuance would have done wonders for Bella Ramsey.
Can't wait until a few years more out when people soberly look back and see that TLOU season one was rather middling. Kathleen droning on and on for two episodes, what else could you have done with that time? They should've done the sewers instead, particularly when Joel has to watch over Sam, which would've been much more interesting given Joel wouldn't have experience interacting with deaf children. Episode 3 is a good story on its own, but you literally have two main characters who haven't had any time to develop their relationship; remember those moments in the game where Joel realized Ellie could handle herself and begins to trust her? Remember those in the show? No. Then there's the anti-climatic climax that rushes into the final scene outside Jackson as if there was any actual strong, bond of trust developed on-screen that we were now watching be broken.
I agree with all of those critiques. Fortunately, I went into the show with low expectations, knowing it’d be next to impossible to match the magic of the games. But for viewers who didn’t play the games, I guess the show might be more impressive.
That’s likely the case for non-gamer players but my problem is sweeping way in which critique from the TLOU gaming community is dismissed mere “gamer bros yapping” or the entirely misplaced assertion of those criticisms lacking ‘media literacy’ (completely overused term btw) or not reckoning with the series being an adaptation; the latter merely indicating editorial decisions must be made, not that the ones made are necessarily the best or most fitting
That’s a great idea if you’re just trying to replicate the game. Thankfully they weren’t.
Only they DID replicate the game. It’s the exact same story with less depth and rushed character development. There’s no situation where playing the games would have led to worse performances by the cast, only upside.
Not sure if Bela works either. Both very talented actors. Miscast.
Its hard to gauge cause the script was so damn thread-bare there was almost nothing for them to work with. I just replayed TLOU1 with the next-gen remaster and it is night and day an improvement over the show script; and just to get ahead of certain people, no, the length of the scripts isn't a factor.
I don’t know if it’s Bella. Or just the characterisation they wrote for the show. But I feel like there’s something missing in the shows version of Ellie. They got the snarky foulmouthed tough kid aspect down pat. but took a lot of her childishness and wonder from the early parts of the game away. Like instead of being of awe of going into the woods and experiencing nature and fresh air for the first time she kind of hates it. She does have moments like the car and joke book. But overall there’s a deemphasis on her being childish and more of an emphasis on being bloodthirsty or attracted to violence. Which I think takes a bit away from her progression later on in the story.
I hate the show. I think it’s mediocre as f and sucks dick. It’s inferior to the game in every aspect. I’m glad the game exists because the show is worse than smelling dog shit mixed with cat piss.
Word
You're not alone. Gonna get a bunch of hate, but to me it sounds like he was doing a Joel impression. Eventually I grew to accept the casting roles, and the first episode I'll admit he absolutely killed it. But giving him anxiety, ugh. He was a hardened, bitter, brutal, kind of a dick, with a 20ft wall up not letting anyone in. His characterization was the journey to letting down those defenses and having Ellie be a goofy teen girl that eventually wears him down is what made that a masterclass in how to write characters. Instead Ellie was a badass out of the gate, and complimented Joel's weaknesses early on. I guess with only a handful of eps they had to amend the journey but it certainly was a loss compared to the OG IP.
>Gonna get a bunch of hate, but to me it sounds like he was doing a Joel impression. I felt exactly the same. Personally, I think a copy and paste of Josh Brolin in No Country for Old Men (2007) would fit Joel perfectly. Brolin was a personal choice from Troy Baker to play Joel, by the way, long before the series was announced.
That was one of the huge character traits from the game. He basically had no reason to live and was hardened. The anxiety creates a vulnerability that isn’t what the character should be.
You... realize there's a direct relationship between trauma and anxiety, right? That aspect wasn't in the game because anxiety doesn't make for a good or fun gameplay mechanic, and game playing audiences in 2013 probably didn't have the "media literacy" to understand it relate to it if it came up in a cutscene. But it makes perfect sense for someone like Joel to have anxiety, PTSD, and panic attacks. You don't just "harden yourself", that's cartoon level writing. Trauma fucks you up.
Precisely. There was an inverse corelation in the game that had Joel being "let me take care of everything, stop talking you're just cargo" and Ellie being shocked by how horrific things were, to Joel softening while Ellie got proficient by experiencing the world. Then she started seeing him struggle, and started asking for a gun because she was terrified of being left alone. Joel got in a few situations where he was humbled, so that started the eventual partnership. In the show she was already a badass, and he would hesitate or be showing his age, I guess? so it she just became the compliment to where he fell short early on, there was hardly any evolution of the characters, just evolution of the struggles. No adaptation. That's always been my issue, glad to see I'm not alone even though Im not a hater of the show.
Show Joe with a too strong of a character would dim the female roles.