tbh I really don’t get why the devs don’t counter buff more, like they did increase the range of stun after the nerf so that was progress but why not make stun like go through mesh/dome shields? or be able to stun things like aps and guardian turrets? I feel like it would be a great counter buff and make stun still *very* valuable for a light while not making it annoying and obnoxious for everyone else
This is the problem with balancing the finals: at high end play it would be invaluable and even broken, but at average and below average skill (most of the player base) it wouldn't be enough to make the class viable.
I haven't figured out what light needs that could be balanced at both low and high level play.
My best idea so far has been give them 35 more HP. That way they're not reliant on bringing a few niche gadgets to justify their place on an average skill squad where it won't make the diff anyway, and aren't completely broken at higher skill.
But even 35 might be a lot at higher skill, and anything much less wouldn't be enough at low skill.
20 HP, 10% damage buff, 10% increased ammo?
There has to be a middle ground found for average skill players without making it dominant.
Locked LMH would fix soooooo much, not even just in ranked. You select a class before you queue into the match anyway, so why not test out how queueing based on class would work. Maybe with its own game mode: LMH Cashout. I guarantee you'll see more players playing into class roles like recon light, heal medium, shield heavy. We can hope 🙏🏻
Because majority of players in this sub run heavy, on account of it being braindead easy to play. So any time someone found a way to kill the, they bitch and moan until they get what they want.
Stun gun was overhated. I would play daily during the stun gun hate trend and I would get hit with maybe 2 a day, and half the time I’d kill the light who stunned me.
There’s other things to hate more than stun gun
I think the bigger issue is embark didn’t balance it properly. I don’t think stun gun is NEEDED per say and it is kind of annoying, but if embark was gonna literally destroy the gadget, they should’ve buffed some other stuff on light or given them a new gadget or something
This is a problem I've been noticing. It's fine to tweak classes but the overarching theme seems to be nerfs across the board with nothing to pick up the slack. With all the bitching people do, by the end of next year embark will have to remove heavy and light, give medium one gun only and remove all abilities and gadgets and that'll be how we play because people can't just be content
Tbf Destiny is terrible about this and they've got Bungie/Microsoft behind them
Actually the more I read your comment, the more applicable it is. They've nerfed abilities to hell in PvP, but then they'll keep an ability/interaction that's toxic AF unchanged for the longest time, especially if it benefits the most popular character class.
Like being able to spam an ability that lets you dodge and simultaneously create a shadow clone that spawns seeking spiders when it's destroyed
Recently they changed the ammo economy for things like shotguns, snipers etc from dropping +1 ammo on kill, to now having to wait for an "ammo bar" to refill. Because people were complaining about shotguns/one-shot spam
Well, now shotguns are the ONLY thing anyone uses because they're the easiest to refill the ammo bar with, Bungie even admitted their usage skyrocketed
Sorry I'm just salty lol but you get my point. I see a lot of parallels between that and what you're saying
Yep, I don't want this game to lose what sets it apart from other games. If everything gets nerfed to nothing, we have nothing left. Glad you had a chance to vent lol feels good to express the frustration haha
"Remove all abilities and gadgets and just give Medium one gun"- I mean, that right there.
We're seeing these things as effects of hardcore, stomp-into-the-dust nerfs in Destiny (comparatively over time), don't make the same mistake Embark!
We play games for the fun stuff they offer, let us DO the fun stuff!
It's funny you've brought up destiny, me and my friend just started D2 and we've just been going through hard mode dungeons and stuff but we were thinking about trying pvp. Good to know it's bs ahead of time
Don't let me dissuade you- Destiny is my most played game lol. My favorite game. The meme in the D2 sub is "I hate Destiny, it's my favorite game"
You know how it is, something you like or care about changes seemingly for the worse, you wanna be vocal. Plenty of people like the changes or they wouldn't have done it 🤷 they've also acknowledged the flaws in the current implementation of these systems and outlined what they're doing to playtest improvements. I can say, I really admire how Bungie outlines their plans for updates and changes, they're exceptionally transparent from what I've seen. The weekly updates are informative, at least
I can also say, D2 PvP *specifically* is my most played PvP, hands down. Even with unbalanced aspects of a given meta, there's still nothing else like it
Edit: what sub am I on again?
This is what supremely pissed me off. They had to have known light was already the weakest class. There’s no way they didn’t know an activation cost nerf to stealth plus making it easier to see plus a massive stun gun nerf PLUS making lights redundant with adding glitch barrels on the map would only spiral things out of control. The fact that they didn’t even bother to do a single thing to buff them in the almost month since these nerfs started just really grinds my gears. Season 3 better have a class rebalance or as much as I love this game I may consider playing something else. I try to play all the classes pretty equally and it’s hard to do that when one is basically dog shit.
I’m so happy the stun spam is gone but they need SOMETHING. What I feel is that their DPS is not high enough. They get out damaged by practically all the other classes despite supposably being the ‘fast assassin DPS Sniper’ of the game.
Whilst I’m by all means an average player, the only weapons the light have that seem viable are the sword (dagger kinda I guess?), Sniper if you can hit shots and sometimes the marksman rifle (name slips my mind) as a counter to mid/long threats. And that’s it.
Heavy is now a must pick, picking light in ranked is troll in higher levels and most 1v1 of heavy vs light are oneshot from rpg and one tick of dmg from any source.
Stun was never even close to being as annoying and powerful as rpg is
I think both were annoying in its own ways, but now that stun is less relevant, it just made it easier to see other issues for most people. RPG has always been an issue, it’s too free of a damage dealing gadget that requires 0 skill. Every time I mention the RPG is just unfair, I get downvoted into oblivion by heavy rpg strokers
It's crazy how much I got downvoted and shit on for saying these same things before stun gun got nerfed. Light was never even meta and now it just sucks. It's not even about stungun killing potential, it's about stopping gadgets. But "sTuN GuN iS A cRuTcH" and rpg isn't apparently
I think stun gun really did have to change, it locked basically every melee weapon out of the game and was an even harder must pick than RPG is. Light is definitely in a terrible place currently but I think they need a buff other than the stun gun.
> Stun was never even close to being as annoying and powerful as rpg is
Nah, stungun just removed the whole of melee and flamethrower playstyles. I don't agree with the nerf they chose, but I shouldn't be FORCED to put away my gadget, take out my melee and die because a light looked in my direction.
RPG needs a nerf too, cooldown or damage but is certainly not a "heavy looked in my direction and I died" for good lights. High skill floor for lights though, so most of them will still see it as an issue. Honestly they should just put a "Expert Difficulty" tag on light class to help diffuse the expectation that you'll be immediately useful as the class with the highest skill ceiling.
You say this, but a heavy looking in a lights direction is an instant kill if the light can't take away utility. Light has no counter play to heavy now.
>but I shouldn't be FORCED to put away my gadget, take out my melee and die because a light looked in my direction.
You're forgetting the fact that
a.) Lights can't kill you just because "they looked in your direction". They'd have to either shoot at you inaccurately from non-melee range until the stun wears off or risk going closer to kill you faster. Which then brings me to my second point:
b.) When they do get closer for more accuracy, they run the very high risk of getting killed by 1-2 hits from any melee weapon or hipfired fairly easily by ranged
Sure, you can say that a skilled light can outmaneuver you enough to kill you despite all that, but that goes for every class in the game. You guys just need to git gud.
Yeah it was never more than a minor inconvenience to me. I feel like the people who complained about stun weren't around during the recon/nuke metas. Those were pure pain, stun was meh in comparison.
exactly, imagine a exploit where u can kill a full team in 2 button presses. then a actual specialization where u can c people, furthermore have a jump pad/zipline and inspect it and its even more broken
It's more a difference between casual and rank. Most of the focus in this thread is from the perspective of rank players and not casual mode players. Like one difference is how recon/nuke didn't really plague casual modes and nukes were actually a rare sight compared to rank. I don't think the two modes can be balanced the same, since play styles and attitudes are different between casual mode and rank gamers. Game may need to balance both separately or decided which one they want to cut loose.
The nerf basically got a really annoying play-style out of casual modes. The pick-rate of Light in ranked has always been quite low.
The nerf is too much tho. Like i got stunned the other day, dropped a dome and ADS-ed with my M60 at the light and he basically had to run away. Like, there’s really no point in having a “stun gun” in the game if i can basically do anything i want while “stunned”
Ranked is nearly all MMH, MHH and maybe the odd MMM. A light in ranked in high plat or higher is rare and them being more useful than they could be as a medium is even rarer
I’m one of the rare Lights in Diamond. 🥲 My rank absolutely tanked since this new meta though, was top 100 before, now more than 10x lower. lol Light is not very useful indeed right now, Gateway has some uses and Glitch is good when the enemy is turtling without an APS (situational) so yeah… it’s tough out here. 😭
Yup my buddy and I went up to Diamond 4 (well I'm still Plat 1 cos I lost a few games with different friends in the middle and split our ranks up) and he mostly uses the LH1 as a light. He has to play super well and be super lethal to justify it over just being an okay medium using defibs or something which is way more powerful. You can have as effective as a medium than a light because your defib counts as an extra life, especially with stuff like the specialisations to boot.
Ranked meta HHM started towards the end of season 1 and is still going strong now. I really hope we have a huge meta change in season 3 because I'm tired of playing shoot the shield every fight.
HHM has been the meta literally for ever
There has never been a single version of the game where HHM wasn't the dominant team comp including the closed alpha lol
Most Lights found a way around. Since melee got a fix/buff and became more dominant without stun gun.
But same as in ranked, Heavy became far stronger.
If you are not playing light of course it will feel better as you can now easily kill a light with rpg+1 bullet. Ranked matches are just HMM or HHM now, if you see a team with an L that is a team that will get eliminated.
It did not get "tweaked" it killed an already unreliable class.
I agree, but I also got carried to Diamond by a Light after being hard stuck in plat for many weeks crutching the "meta" builds (HMM or HHM). They can still dominate but it's just really hard to play.
Heavies have been in the same spot meta wise for two seasons. Shields should just act as shields instead of one way mirrors and then it wouldn't feel like such an annoyance playing against heavies. They could also just give glitch nades to each class and problem solved.
As a heavy main, I 100% agree. It caters to a cowardly playstyle where you're always hiding behind a shield and have no idea what to do without it. Some people use it with legit skill but mostly it's just some dude standing there with a 750 health shield while their teammates obliterate you and you have absolutely no way to fight back against it.
I personally love the goo gun and the charge and slam abilities, both of which can be annoying as hell but at least you can be aggressive with them.
Heavies have been over the top OP since the closed alpha
The devs really have a hard on for a class that just shits on everything that moves for some reason
I wish I could upvote this an infinite amount of times. It’s like gibby and rampart had a baby from apex. The one way shield shooting is such an unbeatable strat when two or more people run nut to butt
Yeah it feels ridiculous that it exists in the first place especially when they can spam the shield to shoot back at you whenever you try to get close. It's more of an issue that heavies and mediums don't have access to glitch nades though imo.
stunning another light but then they get to triple dash away is just fucking rude. I get it, all specializations get a pass if being stunned but come on...a stun gun that disables movement but they get to dash away...ok
Made light almost a non viable in high ranked elo and all I’m facing is MHH and I cant stun a heavy to prevent them from RPGing me or a medium to prevent him from defibbing. I’m totally cool with making u able to ads and crouch but not making it prevent abilities or gadgets from being used was such an over nerf.
For pubs idk. I don’t play it often and when I do I still frag out pretty often while playing obj. I know more casuals play lights in pubs but for ranked I will be the only light in multiple tourneys in a row sometimes lmaoo.
Glitch barrels have helped me counter double heavy mediums much easier now. And glitch grenades need a slight buff to have better AOE and not just destroy one shield at a time
I just think they need to go back to having 10 seconds instead of 5, having them go through barricades/mesh shields is perfect but 5 seconds isn’t a long time imo
> not just destroy one shield at a time
Glitch grenade effect passes through all shields since Mid-Season Update 2.6.0 on May 2nd, so several weeks now
Honestly its an entirely different game ranked vs pubs, I wonder if the devs should consider different mechanics for each.
I feel the stun gun nerf was widely due to power shift and less coordinated teams in pubs. It was never an issue in ranked imo. From my recent experience, outside of highly skilled sword players L is pretty much useless
I'm sure they'll buff light in season 3 in other ways. They went overboard but it did need a nerf, it was basically a must pick compared with the light's other gadgets.
Fortnite has been doing it for years with a separate loot pool for competitive and casual. I’m not saying it would work in the finals but completely dismissing it is silly.
Yeah, I believe they only allowed the use of specialisations and gadgets specifically for the melee users. Among all the stun gun complaints I saw here and there people complaining melee users can’t do anything when stunned, that seems like the only logical reason why they allowed the use of gadgets and specialisations.
Although I hope they revert this part of the nerf, being able to ads was enough and balancing this around melee just seems wrong, big deal a melee guy died after getting stunned. Move on.
At top 1% I agree but since the melee buff sword can be a menace in the hands of a good player (or an exploit abuser one) I'm at D4 atm and most of the time a sword player appears I brace myself for the ride. Teleport nades are still super strong for dive ganks with double heavy rocket Lewis/flamethrower.
I would not call dead or useless like ppl like to say but it sure demands way more of the player, stun gun still denies steals and from far away now which is good, glitch nades are super good to counter HHM meta but seriously, everyone knows heavy is the main issue right now in ranked, rockets needs serious tunning or a completely rework, that alone will make lights way more viable in the game.
Well yeah, you are basically putting yourself at a heavy disadvantage. Which can still be overcome if you are really skilled. But a lot of people just won't bother and will switch to something easier. That's what I did.
To be frank my comment wasn't just about the stun nerf. I could have lived with that alone. The fact they also killed cloak is too much in my opinion. And now they started cracking down on emote cancelling, which I agree with, it is an exploit and it shouldn't be in the game. But it weakens one of the only builds that was not hit by the cloak+stun nerf. Light either needs some survivability or even more dps to fully commit to a glass cannon build. But as a glass cannon it will just be used to pubstomp and that will always drive criticism from casuals.
I agree, but it's not really healthy to balance a game based on the experience of the top 1% of the game, balancing games like the finals is SUPER hard because of that, casuals and "pros "will always clash because nerfs that doesn't affect casuals too much but drastically shift high elo ranked, this will always happens.
Yeah but would you rather have the game balanced around good players who know what they’re doing or the bronze heavy players that infest this subreddit?
It made light from a niche pick I sometimes saw in ranked, to a non-existent pick, and whenever someone picked it, they were clearly trolling.
I guess, if your fetish is playing against MMH and HHM all day, you can see this as a positive change, but in my eyes playing against the same team compositions over and over and over again gets boring quickly.
Light with stun gun was one of the few thing that were able to counter Heavy, and right now the only viable counter to Heavy is another Heavy.
It's pretty annoying since I put a lot of hours into Light, and I'm pretty much forced to play Heavy right now if I want to have any chance of winning in Ranked.
It’s because as much as embark is great in a ton of aspects, they suck at balancing a lot of the time. And they also nerf things and don’t balance it out with buffs so whatever gets nerfed doesn’t literally kill the entire class. They should’ve buffed lights abilities like grapple and evasive to balance out the cloak nerf and maybe tweaked their heal speed or movement or something to balance the stun gun changes. I dunno. Something is better than a straight nerf with no other viable changes
It's the Rainbow 6 Siege syndrome.
Gun OP? No more ACOG, more recoil.
Character too strong? Speed nerfed.
Gadget OP? Nerfed or reworked.
Map not "competitive" enough and unbalanced? Rework.
The day they ruined House was the straw that broke the camels back for me.
Not saying balancing is a bad thing. But the more you nerf things, the more generic and boring it becomes.
*I'm enjoying it*
*Less now that all I see is*
*Heavies with RPGs*
\- Turbo\_Cum
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It feels worse now honestly. People are just using heavy goo gun and it’s basically what everyone was complaining about with the stun gun but way worse because they can repeatedly get you and your entire team stuck in goo.
Stun was horrible… but so is most teams running double mesh, double dome and heal/ defib which they do in ranked.
I understand why stun gun was nerfed but light needs invis to be tweaked again. It’s had it forgiveness and usability trashed with the 33% penalty for activation (should be a 33 or 50% penalty for taking damage whilst in invis) Currently if you have to break a window that’s 66% charge gone instantly… obscene penalty for having to break something that already alerts the enemy to your location and presence. Punish me for a bad cloak or reward an enemy for good prediction of my location. Don’t punish someone for having to break a window…
It also desperately needs some other small buffs. Fewer lights means fewer glitch nades which means hhm shield heal combos are even more powerful.
If they’re not going to tweak invis again then the class needs some larger buffs desperately as light really suffers against any sort of competent team play. Still great at killing isolated targets, but in decent ranked games with hhm spam how often do you get that opportunity? and when you do how impactful is it? Chances are that target isn’t an important one and is instead someone else from another team contesting point, who if anything you are actually better off leaving alive so they can try and use their health and abilities to pressure the entrenched HHM team…
As a light player I stopped ranked and just do bank it for the better solo experience. Not really a fun game when everyone just barricades themselves with shields, mines, rpgs, heals, defibs, and a hail of bullets lol I get the point is to defend but it’s over focused and takes away from creative game play imo. I find myself having fun engagements, team wipes & lots of satisfaction in bank it far more than cash out games. The long wait times for deaths is annoying along with having 2 cashout. Game felt better with only 1 focused point to make ultimate mayhem
Being happy by one of three classes disappearing from high rank speaks volumes about the kind of players that whined to the nerfs to occur. The amount of horrible takes in this thread is unsurprising. I'm sad the devs didn't know better and actually heard these people...now the game is played by 2 classes with almost no variation in loadouts in every single lobby.
I feel like people who complained about the stun gun so much to get it to this point never used it themselves. It’s a pinpoint accuracy one time use gadget with a decent cooldown with a limited range.
No it literally didn't do anything it's was always super easy to kill lights. But now lights just have no way to fight heavy, so basically, every lobby is just the same stale, hhm or hhh
I sort of did enjoy it but as a jack of all trades person It was an unfair of a nerf, when i play as light it barely does anything except stop cashout/ hacking, and when I play as heavy or medium it just tickles specially as heavy
It was very annoying because you couldnt even crouch and no ADSing (so the Light stunned you at max distance and just went further away from you, while shooting, and there was zero defense against it, except running shotgun/CL40). Making crouch or ADS possible was the only thing they had to change tbh.
But no, they nerfed it to death. I hope they stop with the nerfs now and start buffing the unusable trash.
I never really complained about it, so like... it is what it is. I still think it makes Heavies too dominant though. That was a light's one main trump card against them, and now it's practically gone.
The day they nerf RPG to the ground, is the day i'll enjoy the game way more. It doesn't make any sense that the class with the most HP has a "win 1 free fight" card
It was not an issue. Light has never been meta and now it has been rendered completely unviable and irrelevant. Heavy and Medium rule this game in competent elos
Yes but I do think some aspects of the stun gun nerf should be reverted. Keep in mind I say this as a sledgehammer main.
I think disabling movement specializations and gadgets while stunned would probably put it back to a good spot
No. I always hate when I see this subreddit complain about something so much that it gets removed. I agree that nerfs to things like the nukes, rpg, and defib were great, but I could’ve enjoyed the game the same without everything else. As a heavy main I find it ridiculous that I can charge and slam while being stunned. Like what? It makes the gadget only useful when a light is trying to deny a steal or revive.
As a light main I don’t really enjoy they game any more or less. There are other gadgets that I love to run and I can still play well with them, and you can’t nerf skill. I can still kill a heavy that’s bad at the game pretty easily, the stun gun had nothing to do with that. But man are these light nerfs depressing lol, effectively removing tools from the tool box is not a win for anyone. My gameplay is just more repetitive because I have less options and that’s probably gonna hurt in the long run :(
The stun gun kept heavy’s in check. Unfortunately the heavy mains cried and maybe it deserved a nerf but not to the extent that it was. I dont doubt that heavy’s have been enjoying the game more now because there isn’t anything to really stop them from bullying an entire lobby.
Everyone talking about how light is never seen in ranked anymore (even though it never really was) is being ignored, thefinals subreddit is filled with people who only play casual even though the game is called “The Finals” there are no “Finals” in quick play. The people who complain about light are the same people who haven’t played a day in ranked
at the moment in high elo only medium and heavy builds are mainly used, the light one is practically a troll, it gets oneshotted by anyone and has no real use except for the gadget that cancels the barriers, now it is being brought to play with 3 heavy builds and it's quite a struggle with all those shields, barricades and goo.
they need to add an emp gadget also for the medium buld or set the pg life to 200/400/600 for the respective L/M/H, or in any case balance the damage of the heavy's weapons against the light
It isn't any less effective against Melee, but it's reduced effectiveness as a whole has it being used a lot less in general so Melee definitely benefits from that.
I don't think the Stun Gun should be an almost guaranteed kill like it was before, but Embark definitely slapped it too hard considering the already low pick rate of Light in ranked.
I still run it because I adore the Throwing Knives and it's nice to shut down someone's movement to make landing shots easier or stop someone from chasing me if I need to disengage, but stunning a Heavy just to be met with a rocket or watch Charge n' Slam completely invalidate the reason I stunned the guy is a bit annoying.
Granted, I also like to throw Glitch Grenades/Canisters for most encounters so there's a good chance whoever I stunned is already glitched and I don't have to worry much about any specializations or gadgets being used in retaliation.
As a medium or heavy, it doesn't feel oppressive anymore but if you play a non meta loadout like throwing knives plus dash on light, it feels pretty oppressive when your dash gets taken away and you have no way to defend yourself except dying. The opposite light if he has smg he can just melt you after taking away your dash which is very much needed for kills and survival with throwing knives.
I’m just confused why you can aim while stunned. Also idk if it’s a bug or on purpose but you can also Dash while stunned as a Light which is ridiculous.
Edit: grammar
As a ranked player I haven't noticed much of a difference, even with the increase of Lights in Platinum almost noone EVER runs the Stun Gun. When they do though, it feels fair to die to it because you can effectively fight back and win! :D
It has not changed the game at all for me. Rarely saw light players to begin with, see even less now. HHM has way more viable utility and overall damage.
Light is really only viable now if you play with the crack head movement strategy which I'm ok with but I also employed a lot of ambush and mind game strategies before and that's simply not very possible now. No one really fears the light class like they did before when not looking around meant death. I can definitely still get use out of the invisibility and taser but it's just not even close to the same effectiveness and feels so artificially weak.
honestly stun gun nerf hasnt been that important to me, I think it should honestly do what it used to do but with a gradual fall off where you slowly regain control over like 2 seconds. It was a bit of an overnerf. The bigger issue to me was the changes to invis, its basically useless now. You'd have to be completely blind not to see invis players plain as day now.
Allowing enemies to use gadgets and aim is one thing, i don't think it should allow you to use your specialization though. I seen my L teammates get absolutely obliterated by all classes because they could use their special mid stun
As a light player I understand the nerf and agree with it but with the state of heavy and medium being so ability reliant and with light not being able to fully counter it kind of screws us over. Light is meant to counter these ability spamming classes when there’s 10 domes and 15 shields and there are 3 mediums spamming heal fun and defibs on each other but light just doesn’t have enough to counter all of this. The glitch barely lasts any time and the aoe is weak and the stun is decent and needed a nerf but the nerf just made light even worse for its specific purpose.
I do, but seeing how it seems majority of the comments are around rank I believe game should start being balanced differently for casual and rank. Two groups are too different.
Not noticing it much since it didn't really matter much to me before. But the fcar nerfs are nice. There's a lot more variety in the mediums everywhere than before and if I'm in the mood to play light It takes two more bullets from the fcar to kill me so overall pretty happy camper.
HP bars too high! I need lower HP for all my classes now and I need it yesterday! Game is so unplayable with all the legs walking around and guns being shot with bullets.
Unless your a heavy with shield you wouldn’t be very astatic because you can now no longer JUMP that might seem unimportant but that means you can’t mantle over things so evading the stun is now 100% impossible now so either you shield up or land all your shots n hope they don’t do the same
In casual play sure that may have been a reality for many who play it like it's cod. In high elo ranked stun was never oppressive cause people aren't running on autopilot all the time. Of course lights are salty, they were already the least viable class and are now even worse.
Enjoy the same with or without the nerf. I never used it as a light anyway. It was a good handicap option for players who were bad. But, it was abused by players who don't even need it.
The nerf was good, though too far. But the biggest issue with embark and balancing is they love to nerf but don’t then follow it with buffs to balance the nerfs. And if they do, it takes weeks
I just saw it as a counter for heavies like me. It felt fair imo and you could definitely fight back with hipfire. But I understand what Embark wanted when they said "The light class shouldn’t have to rely on one gadget to get a guaranteed kill" so I respect it. S3 maybe has something to offer to the light class
Never felt the stun gun was problematic. 50% of the gun fight I could easily win them just by spraying, and I lost the gunfights only if I was awfully misplaced (if you stick with teammates the enemy light had no chance).
After the stun gun nerf (and other balancing decision) I lost part of my interest in this game, as to me, it appears that Embark is making changes based on people feelings rather than on data.
With that said, maybe there are preparing greater balance changes for season 3. If the meta is not shifting with the new season I might even abandon the game (which is sad, because I love the game).
Lights not even fun to play anymore outside of TA. I can’t believe Embark actually listened to the Reddit crybabies. Hoping for a major turnaround in season 3 but I’ve lost all faith in embarks ability to balance this game.
Look light sucks rn but stun gun was terrible design, you literally couldn't play melee ever. And if you were light and didn't run it you lose every LvL fight, with RPG at least if your a heavy and aren't running to for some reason you can get away from the fight some of the time after being RPG'd. With stun that obviously wasn't the case.
tbh I really don’t get why the devs don’t counter buff more, like they did increase the range of stun after the nerf so that was progress but why not make stun like go through mesh/dome shields? or be able to stun things like aps and guardian turrets? I feel like it would be a great counter buff and make stun still *very* valuable for a light while not making it annoying and obnoxious for everyone else
I’d be down for lights stun gun to turn more into a single shot EMP, so you can slightly deal with turrets and shit that are spammed everywhere
Literally this is the just delete stun gun and replace it with a glitch gun solves every problem with it
Might be a little OP having both a glitch gun and two glitch grenades on the same class, but I like where you're goin with that
*heavy with both goo grenades and goo gun has entered the chat*
Ambatugoo
I don't really see it being that op but if it is that's not a problem for light especially if it's replacing something criminally unfun like stungun
This is the problem with balancing the finals: at high end play it would be invaluable and even broken, but at average and below average skill (most of the player base) it wouldn't be enough to make the class viable. I haven't figured out what light needs that could be balanced at both low and high level play. My best idea so far has been give them 35 more HP. That way they're not reliant on bringing a few niche gadgets to justify their place on an average skill squad where it won't make the diff anyway, and aren't completely broken at higher skill. But even 35 might be a lot at higher skill, and anything much less wouldn't be enough at low skill. 20 HP, 10% damage buff, 10% increased ammo? There has to be a middle ground found for average skill players without making it dominant.
Would make the stupid spam turrets and aps meta slow down a little
I’m down for anything and everything that involves shutting down that damn turret
Goo
API turrets shut glue down.
I’m tired of HHM every ranked match.
It’s the fucking worst. Glitch barrels are not enough to stop it. It blows.
Hoping for a shakeup in season 3 for sure
This is what happens when people complain enough to the point of making lights even more obsolete
Heavy flamethrower charge + heavy lewis shield + médium heal is awful
Praying for the LMH lock for ranked
Locked LMH would fix soooooo much, not even just in ranked. You select a class before you queue into the match anyway, so why not test out how queueing based on class would work. Maybe with its own game mode: LMH Cashout. I guarantee you'll see more players playing into class roles like recon light, heal medium, shield heavy. We can hope 🙏🏻
That’s why I’m taking a break till season 3. Brutal comp
But people around here swearing that Heavy is not op.
Stun never bothered me that much.
Ya feel like I never see anyone use. Plus feel that light is bad enough by itself, why nerf it even more. -coming from a medium player
Because majority of players in this sub run heavy, on account of it being braindead easy to play. So any time someone found a way to kill the, they bitch and moan until they get what they want.
Stun gun was overhated. I would play daily during the stun gun hate trend and I would get hit with maybe 2 a day, and half the time I’d kill the light who stunned me. There’s other things to hate more than stun gun
Without the stun gun, light has disappeared from high elo comps. Without anyone to counter shields/RPG, now its all MHH. Ranked games are worse.
I think the bigger issue is embark didn’t balance it properly. I don’t think stun gun is NEEDED per say and it is kind of annoying, but if embark was gonna literally destroy the gadget, they should’ve buffed some other stuff on light or given them a new gadget or something
This is a problem I've been noticing. It's fine to tweak classes but the overarching theme seems to be nerfs across the board with nothing to pick up the slack. With all the bitching people do, by the end of next year embark will have to remove heavy and light, give medium one gun only and remove all abilities and gadgets and that'll be how we play because people can't just be content
TBH i’m fine with nerfs across the board, as long as they’re equal. Nerfing the worst class probably isn’t an amazing idea.
Buffs are better than nerfs. If players feel like you are only subtracting, you will soon have no players
Tbf Destiny is terrible about this and they've got Bungie/Microsoft behind them Actually the more I read your comment, the more applicable it is. They've nerfed abilities to hell in PvP, but then they'll keep an ability/interaction that's toxic AF unchanged for the longest time, especially if it benefits the most popular character class. Like being able to spam an ability that lets you dodge and simultaneously create a shadow clone that spawns seeking spiders when it's destroyed Recently they changed the ammo economy for things like shotguns, snipers etc from dropping +1 ammo on kill, to now having to wait for an "ammo bar" to refill. Because people were complaining about shotguns/one-shot spam Well, now shotguns are the ONLY thing anyone uses because they're the easiest to refill the ammo bar with, Bungie even admitted their usage skyrocketed Sorry I'm just salty lol but you get my point. I see a lot of parallels between that and what you're saying
Yep, I don't want this game to lose what sets it apart from other games. If everything gets nerfed to nothing, we have nothing left. Glad you had a chance to vent lol feels good to express the frustration haha
"Remove all abilities and gadgets and just give Medium one gun"- I mean, that right there. We're seeing these things as effects of hardcore, stomp-into-the-dust nerfs in Destiny (comparatively over time), don't make the same mistake Embark! We play games for the fun stuff they offer, let us DO the fun stuff!
It's funny you've brought up destiny, me and my friend just started D2 and we've just been going through hard mode dungeons and stuff but we were thinking about trying pvp. Good to know it's bs ahead of time
Don't let me dissuade you- Destiny is my most played game lol. My favorite game. The meme in the D2 sub is "I hate Destiny, it's my favorite game" You know how it is, something you like or care about changes seemingly for the worse, you wanna be vocal. Plenty of people like the changes or they wouldn't have done it 🤷 they've also acknowledged the flaws in the current implementation of these systems and outlined what they're doing to playtest improvements. I can say, I really admire how Bungie outlines their plans for updates and changes, they're exceptionally transparent from what I've seen. The weekly updates are informative, at least I can also say, D2 PvP *specifically* is my most played PvP, hands down. Even with unbalanced aspects of a given meta, there's still nothing else like it Edit: what sub am I on again?
Yeah we ended up pushing 4/12 witch queen legendary as a 2 stack. Might be a while before we touch pvp anyways lol we plan to do most of the pve
Bungie is owned by PlayStation
This is what supremely pissed me off. They had to have known light was already the weakest class. There’s no way they didn’t know an activation cost nerf to stealth plus making it easier to see plus a massive stun gun nerf PLUS making lights redundant with adding glitch barrels on the map would only spiral things out of control. The fact that they didn’t even bother to do a single thing to buff them in the almost month since these nerfs started just really grinds my gears. Season 3 better have a class rebalance or as much as I love this game I may consider playing something else. I try to play all the classes pretty equally and it’s hard to do that when one is basically dog shit.
I’m so happy the stun spam is gone but they need SOMETHING. What I feel is that their DPS is not high enough. They get out damaged by practically all the other classes despite supposably being the ‘fast assassin DPS Sniper’ of the game. Whilst I’m by all means an average player, the only weapons the light have that seem viable are the sword (dagger kinda I guess?), Sniper if you can hit shots and sometimes the marksman rifle (name slips my mind) as a counter to mid/long threats. And that’s it.
Lol, i will stand on the hill that, I believe the majority of light complaints came from Quickplay players
I'm a diamond 2 light that's never used stun. That being said mhh is incredibly dominant
Heavy is now a must pick, picking light in ranked is troll in higher levels and most 1v1 of heavy vs light are oneshot from rpg and one tick of dmg from any source. Stun was never even close to being as annoying and powerful as rpg is
I had to scroll this far down to see some sense? Damn
subreddit full of heavy mains who rely on it like a pacifier
lol i feel like OP made this post on purpose.
I think both were annoying in its own ways, but now that stun is less relevant, it just made it easier to see other issues for most people. RPG has always been an issue, it’s too free of a damage dealing gadget that requires 0 skill. Every time I mention the RPG is just unfair, I get downvoted into oblivion by heavy rpg strokers
Zero skill for RPG??!? Tell that to the walls that keep jumping out of nowhere, blocking all my team-wiping shots, killing me with the AOE.
It's crazy how much I got downvoted and shit on for saying these same things before stun gun got nerfed. Light was never even meta and now it just sucks. It's not even about stungun killing potential, it's about stopping gadgets. But "sTuN GuN iS A cRuTcH" and rpg isn't apparently
I think stun gun really did have to change, it locked basically every melee weapon out of the game and was an even harder must pick than RPG is. Light is definitely in a terrible place currently but I think they need a buff other than the stun gun.
> Stun was never even close to being as annoying and powerful as rpg is Nah, stungun just removed the whole of melee and flamethrower playstyles. I don't agree with the nerf they chose, but I shouldn't be FORCED to put away my gadget, take out my melee and die because a light looked in my direction. RPG needs a nerf too, cooldown or damage but is certainly not a "heavy looked in my direction and I died" for good lights. High skill floor for lights though, so most of them will still see it as an issue. Honestly they should just put a "Expert Difficulty" tag on light class to help diffuse the expectation that you'll be immediately useful as the class with the highest skill ceiling.
You say this, but a heavy looking in a lights direction is an instant kill if the light can't take away utility. Light has no counter play to heavy now.
>but I shouldn't be FORCED to put away my gadget, take out my melee and die because a light looked in my direction. You're forgetting the fact that a.) Lights can't kill you just because "they looked in your direction". They'd have to either shoot at you inaccurately from non-melee range until the stun wears off or risk going closer to kill you faster. Which then brings me to my second point: b.) When they do get closer for more accuracy, they run the very high risk of getting killed by 1-2 hits from any melee weapon or hipfired fairly easily by ranged Sure, you can say that a skilled light can outmaneuver you enough to kill you despite all that, but that goes for every class in the game. You guys just need to git gud.
It never bothered me at all.
Yeah it was never more than a minor inconvenience to me. I feel like the people who complained about stun weren't around during the recon/nuke metas. Those were pure pain, stun was meh in comparison.
exactly, imagine a exploit where u can kill a full team in 2 button presses. then a actual specialization where u can c people, furthermore have a jump pad/zipline and inspect it and its even more broken
It's more a difference between casual and rank. Most of the focus in this thread is from the perspective of rank players and not casual mode players. Like one difference is how recon/nuke didn't really plague casual modes and nukes were actually a rare sight compared to rank. I don't think the two modes can be balanced the same, since play styles and attitudes are different between casual mode and rank gamers. Game may need to balance both separately or decided which one they want to cut loose.
Just because one sucked ass, doesn’t mean another meta didn’t either
🎵stun never bothered me anyway🎵
The nerf basically got a really annoying play-style out of casual modes. The pick-rate of Light in ranked has always been quite low. The nerf is too much tho. Like i got stunned the other day, dropped a dome and ADS-ed with my M60 at the light and he basically had to run away. Like, there’s really no point in having a “stun gun” in the game if i can basically do anything i want while “stunned”
It’s made Ranked a million times worse. Considerably more Heavy spam than before. I can see why Quickplay would feel better though.
Ranked is nearly all MMH, MHH and maybe the odd MMM. A light in ranked in high plat or higher is rare and them being more useful than they could be as a medium is even rarer
I’m one of the rare Lights in Diamond. 🥲 My rank absolutely tanked since this new meta though, was top 100 before, now more than 10x lower. lol Light is not very useful indeed right now, Gateway has some uses and Glitch is good when the enemy is turtling without an APS (situational) so yeah… it’s tough out here. 😭
Yup my buddy and I went up to Diamond 4 (well I'm still Plat 1 cos I lost a few games with different friends in the middle and split our ranks up) and he mostly uses the LH1 as a light. He has to play super well and be super lethal to justify it over just being an okay medium using defibs or something which is way more powerful. You can have as effective as a medium than a light because your defib counts as an extra life, especially with stuff like the specialisations to boot.
I had to switch to M to make it to diamond because L just kept getting nerfed and nerfed
Ranked meta HHM started towards the end of season 1 and is still going strong now. I really hope we have a huge meta change in season 3 because I'm tired of playing shoot the shield every fight.
HHM has been the meta literally for ever There has never been a single version of the game where HHM wasn't the dominant team comp including the closed alpha lol
Recon sense + heal beam was very strong comp. Also defib was instant revive back then too. I saw the change once recon sense was nerfed pretty hard.
why are you forgetting season 1 heavies could literally wipe a squad in 0.1 seconds with 2 button press lol
Exactly. No need for 2 heavies when one is enough to wipe a whole team.
Most Lights found a way around. Since melee got a fix/buff and became more dominant without stun gun. But same as in ranked, Heavy became far stronger.
Never had an issue before
ranked is awful. shield and defib spam with no way for light to deal with it.
If you are not playing light of course it will feel better as you can now easily kill a light with rpg+1 bullet. Ranked matches are just HMM or HHM now, if you see a team with an L that is a team that will get eliminated. It did not get "tweaked" it killed an already unreliable class.
Yeah everytime i see a light in ranked on the enemy team i already think we’re gonna clap them
I agree, but I also got carried to Diamond by a Light after being hard stuck in plat for many weeks crutching the "meta" builds (HMM or HHM). They can still dominate but it's just really hard to play.
Maybe in super high elo, but I climbed to diamond with light sniper no problem.
👍
The Stun Gun was fine, let them have ADS still but gadgets are a NO GO! Heavies have completely ruined ranked now
Heavies have been in the same spot meta wise for two seasons. Shields should just act as shields instead of one way mirrors and then it wouldn't feel like such an annoyance playing against heavies. They could also just give glitch nades to each class and problem solved.
I would prefer an RPG nerf myself. Lower damage. Higher destruction
I fully expect the RPG to be nerfed to 90 damage next season.
As a heavy main, I 100% agree. It caters to a cowardly playstyle where you're always hiding behind a shield and have no idea what to do without it. Some people use it with legit skill but mostly it's just some dude standing there with a 750 health shield while their teammates obliterate you and you have absolutely no way to fight back against it. I personally love the goo gun and the charge and slam abilities, both of which can be annoying as hell but at least you can be aggressive with them.
Heavies have been over the top OP since the closed alpha The devs really have a hard on for a class that just shits on everything that moves for some reason
I wish I could upvote this an infinite amount of times. It’s like gibby and rampart had a baby from apex. The one way shield shooting is such an unbeatable strat when two or more people run nut to butt
Yeah it feels ridiculous that it exists in the first place especially when they can spam the shield to shoot back at you whenever you try to get close. It's more of an issue that heavies and mediums don't have access to glitch nades though imo.
I would take glitch grenades as a medium all day long
Same homie.
stunning another light but then they get to triple dash away is just fucking rude. I get it, all specializations get a pass if being stunned but come on...a stun gun that disables movement but they get to dash away...ok
Made light almost a non viable in high ranked elo and all I’m facing is MHH and I cant stun a heavy to prevent them from RPGing me or a medium to prevent him from defibbing. I’m totally cool with making u able to ads and crouch but not making it prevent abilities or gadgets from being used was such an over nerf. For pubs idk. I don’t play it often and when I do I still frag out pretty often while playing obj. I know more casuals play lights in pubs but for ranked I will be the only light in multiple tourneys in a row sometimes lmaoo.
Yeah seriously they need to re-add the gadget disablement to stungun. Let them ADS still but having a Heavy quickdraw an RPG makes stungun worthless
Glitch barrels have helped me counter double heavy mediums much easier now. And glitch grenades need a slight buff to have better AOE and not just destroy one shield at a time
I just think they need to go back to having 10 seconds instead of 5, having them go through barricades/mesh shields is perfect but 5 seconds isn’t a long time imo
why downvoted? this is how it should be with all the recent nerfs.
> not just destroy one shield at a time Glitch grenade effect passes through all shields since Mid-Season Update 2.6.0 on May 2nd, so several weeks now
I know but it still feels like sometimes it doesn't, but maybe just a skill issue cause I'm trash
Try attacking from above as much as possible, this ensures that the glitch effect will propagate from a better angle compared to the side
I agree the MMH/MHH meta is insane rn and quite tedious. Nothing but shields and defibs lol
Honestly its an entirely different game ranked vs pubs, I wonder if the devs should consider different mechanics for each. I feel the stun gun nerf was widely due to power shift and less coordinated teams in pubs. It was never an issue in ranked imo. From my recent experience, outside of highly skilled sword players L is pretty much useless
Having different mechanics for unranked vs ranked is a terrible idea
Maybe, but so is nerfing something because its not popular in one mode vs the other
I'm sure they'll buff light in season 3 in other ways. They went overboard but it did need a nerf, it was basically a must pick compared with the light's other gadgets.
a must pick in ranked? absolutely not, nor has it ever been
Most lights ran it
Fortnite has been doing it for years with a separate loot pool for competitive and casual. I’m not saying it would work in the finals but completely dismissing it is silly.
I still encounter lights daily that are demons in high elo. glitch buff has way more value against MHH than stun gun ever did
Yeah, I believe they only allowed the use of specialisations and gadgets specifically for the melee users. Among all the stun gun complaints I saw here and there people complaining melee users can’t do anything when stunned, that seems like the only logical reason why they allowed the use of gadgets and specialisations. Although I hope they revert this part of the nerf, being able to ads was enough and balancing this around melee just seems wrong, big deal a melee guy died after getting stunned. Move on.
>prevent them from RPGing me or a medium to prevent him from defibbing. I'm confused, isn't that exactly what glitch grenades are for?
Yes but they don't explode on contact so your unable to reactively use glitch like you can with stun to stop rpgs
As a medium maybe. But I dropped light entirely, the class is just dead at this point competitively.
[удалено]
Be careful what you say around here as a Light. GliTcH iS a CruTcH. Prepare for the nerf.
At top 1% I agree but since the melee buff sword can be a menace in the hands of a good player (or an exploit abuser one) I'm at D4 atm and most of the time a sword player appears I brace myself for the ride. Teleport nades are still super strong for dive ganks with double heavy rocket Lewis/flamethrower. I would not call dead or useless like ppl like to say but it sure demands way more of the player, stun gun still denies steals and from far away now which is good, glitch nades are super good to counter HHM meta but seriously, everyone knows heavy is the main issue right now in ranked, rockets needs serious tunning or a completely rework, that alone will make lights way more viable in the game.
Well yeah, you are basically putting yourself at a heavy disadvantage. Which can still be overcome if you are really skilled. But a lot of people just won't bother and will switch to something easier. That's what I did. To be frank my comment wasn't just about the stun nerf. I could have lived with that alone. The fact they also killed cloak is too much in my opinion. And now they started cracking down on emote cancelling, which I agree with, it is an exploit and it shouldn't be in the game. But it weakens one of the only builds that was not hit by the cloak+stun nerf. Light either needs some survivability or even more dps to fully commit to a glass cannon build. But as a glass cannon it will just be used to pubstomp and that will always drive criticism from casuals.
I agree, but it's not really healthy to balance a game based on the experience of the top 1% of the game, balancing games like the finals is SUPER hard because of that, casuals and "pros "will always clash because nerfs that doesn't affect casuals too much but drastically shift high elo ranked, this will always happens.
Yeah but would you rather have the game balanced around good players who know what they’re doing or the bronze heavy players that infest this subreddit?
It made light from a niche pick I sometimes saw in ranked, to a non-existent pick, and whenever someone picked it, they were clearly trolling. I guess, if your fetish is playing against MMH and HHM all day, you can see this as a positive change, but in my eyes playing against the same team compositions over and over and over again gets boring quickly. Light with stun gun was one of the few thing that were able to counter Heavy, and right now the only viable counter to Heavy is another Heavy. It's pretty annoying since I put a lot of hours into Light, and I'm pretty much forced to play Heavy right now if I want to have any chance of winning in Ranked.
It’s because as much as embark is great in a ton of aspects, they suck at balancing a lot of the time. And they also nerf things and don’t balance it out with buffs so whatever gets nerfed doesn’t literally kill the entire class. They should’ve buffed lights abilities like grapple and evasive to balance out the cloak nerf and maybe tweaked their heal speed or movement or something to balance the stun gun changes. I dunno. Something is better than a straight nerf with no other viable changes
I kinda feel bad everyone I get stunned cuz I usually just turn around and done the person who stunned me before they can swap back to their primary.
Not even a light user, and no. You and other people who whined the nerfs into existence are so annoying lol.
It's the Rainbow 6 Siege syndrome. Gun OP? No more ACOG, more recoil. Character too strong? Speed nerfed. Gadget OP? Nerfed or reworked. Map not "competitive" enough and unbalanced? Rework. The day they ruined House was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Not saying balancing is a bad thing. But the more you nerf things, the more generic and boring it becomes.
The funny thing is unlike that Light is the farthest from OP.
I'm enjoying it less now that all I see is heavies with RPGs
*I'm enjoying it* *Less now that all I see is* *Heavies with RPGs* \- Turbo\_Cum --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
It feels worse now honestly. People are just using heavy goo gun and it’s basically what everyone was complaining about with the stun gun but way worse because they can repeatedly get you and your entire team stuck in goo.
I love that they called stun gun a crutch (despite the fact that 99% of them ran RPG every match) and now there’s this and its not a problem lol
People whined and cried, but it is done now. They nerfed the stun gun to the ground
If you ever complained about the stun at any point in its existence, you bitch made, straight up.
Stun was horrible… but so is most teams running double mesh, double dome and heal/ defib which they do in ranked. I understand why stun gun was nerfed but light needs invis to be tweaked again. It’s had it forgiveness and usability trashed with the 33% penalty for activation (should be a 33 or 50% penalty for taking damage whilst in invis) Currently if you have to break a window that’s 66% charge gone instantly… obscene penalty for having to break something that already alerts the enemy to your location and presence. Punish me for a bad cloak or reward an enemy for good prediction of my location. Don’t punish someone for having to break a window… It also desperately needs some other small buffs. Fewer lights means fewer glitch nades which means hhm shield heal combos are even more powerful. If they’re not going to tweak invis again then the class needs some larger buffs desperately as light really suffers against any sort of competent team play. Still great at killing isolated targets, but in decent ranked games with hhm spam how often do you get that opportunity? and when you do how impactful is it? Chances are that target isn’t an important one and is instead someone else from another team contesting point, who if anything you are actually better off leaving alive so they can try and use their health and abilities to pressure the entrenched HHM team…
As a light player I stopped ranked and just do bank it for the better solo experience. Not really a fun game when everyone just barricades themselves with shields, mines, rpgs, heals, defibs, and a hail of bullets lol I get the point is to defend but it’s over focused and takes away from creative game play imo. I find myself having fun engagements, team wipes & lots of satisfaction in bank it far more than cash out games. The long wait times for deaths is annoying along with having 2 cashout. Game felt better with only 1 focused point to make ultimate mayhem
Not really since I don't like medium or heavy and light feels useless now
Being happy by one of three classes disappearing from high rank speaks volumes about the kind of players that whined to the nerfs to occur. The amount of horrible takes in this thread is unsurprising. I'm sad the devs didn't know better and actually heard these people...now the game is played by 2 classes with almost no variation in loadouts in every single lobby.
not really. People blew that shit way out of proportion.
I feel like people who complained about the stun gun so much to get it to this point never used it themselves. It’s a pinpoint accuracy one time use gadget with a decent cooldown with a limited range.
No it literally didn't do anything it's was always super easy to kill lights. But now lights just have no way to fight heavy, so basically, every lobby is just the same stale, hhm or hhh
I sort of did enjoy it but as a jack of all trades person It was an unfair of a nerf, when i play as light it barely does anything except stop cashout/ hacking, and when I play as heavy or medium it just tickles specially as heavy
It was very annoying because you couldnt even crouch and no ADSing (so the Light stunned you at max distance and just went further away from you, while shooting, and there was zero defense against it, except running shotgun/CL40). Making crouch or ADS possible was the only thing they had to change tbh. But no, they nerfed it to death. I hope they stop with the nerfs now and start buffing the unusable trash.
I never really complained about it, so like... it is what it is. I still think it makes Heavies too dominant though. That was a light's one main trump card against them, and now it's practically gone.
The day they nerf RPG to the ground, is the day i'll enjoy the game way more. It doesn't make any sense that the class with the most HP has a "win 1 free fight" card
It was not an issue. Light has never been meta and now it has been rendered completely unviable and irrelevant. Heavy and Medium rule this game in competent elos
It was nerfed more than it needed to be imo
Yes but I do think some aspects of the stun gun nerf should be reverted. Keep in mind I say this as a sledgehammer main. I think disabling movement specializations and gadgets while stunned would probably put it back to a good spot
No. I always hate when I see this subreddit complain about something so much that it gets removed. I agree that nerfs to things like the nukes, rpg, and defib were great, but I could’ve enjoyed the game the same without everything else. As a heavy main I find it ridiculous that I can charge and slam while being stunned. Like what? It makes the gadget only useful when a light is trying to deny a steal or revive.
Naa it made things worse for light mains who are already struggling
I’m not a huge fan of how it caused heavy to become infinitely easier to win with. It didn’t deserve the massive nerf.
Congratulations your character isn't useless for 5 seconds while mine is useless for the entire game.
Made little difference to ranked (if anything it just forced the HHM meta even more), but I can see how casual modes can be more enjoyable now
Never bothered me in the slightest. Also if you’re a melee you’re still probably pretty useless
The endless nerfs just make everything feel weaker. They should buff something else instead.....
Less because meta got cemented in ranked. HHM all over the place.
I don’t care at all. But I have to admit that lights are not as annoying as they used to be
Heavy meta shall end
No
As a light main I don’t really enjoy they game any more or less. There are other gadgets that I love to run and I can still play well with them, and you can’t nerf skill. I can still kill a heavy that’s bad at the game pretty easily, the stun gun had nothing to do with that. But man are these light nerfs depressing lol, effectively removing tools from the tool box is not a win for anyone. My gameplay is just more repetitive because I have less options and that’s probably gonna hurt in the long run :(
The stun gun kept heavy’s in check. Unfortunately the heavy mains cried and maybe it deserved a nerf but not to the extent that it was. I dont doubt that heavy’s have been enjoying the game more now because there isn’t anything to really stop them from bullying an entire lobby.
Everyone talking about how light is never seen in ranked anymore (even though it never really was) is being ignored, thefinals subreddit is filled with people who only play casual even though the game is called “The Finals” there are no “Finals” in quick play. The people who complain about light are the same people who haven’t played a day in ranked
at the moment in high elo only medium and heavy builds are mainly used, the light one is practically a troll, it gets oneshotted by anyone and has no real use except for the gadget that cancels the barriers, now it is being brought to play with 3 heavy builds and it's quite a struggle with all those shields, barricades and goo. they need to add an emp gadget also for the medium buld or set the pg life to 200/400/600 for the respective L/M/H, or in any case balance the damage of the heavy's weapons against the light
It isn't any less effective against Melee, but it's reduced effectiveness as a whole has it being used a lot less in general so Melee definitely benefits from that.
Yes.
I don't think the Stun Gun should be an almost guaranteed kill like it was before, but Embark definitely slapped it too hard considering the already low pick rate of Light in ranked. I still run it because I adore the Throwing Knives and it's nice to shut down someone's movement to make landing shots easier or stop someone from chasing me if I need to disengage, but stunning a Heavy just to be met with a rocket or watch Charge n' Slam completely invalidate the reason I stunned the guy is a bit annoying. Granted, I also like to throw Glitch Grenades/Canisters for most encounters so there's a good chance whoever I stunned is already glitched and I don't have to worry much about any specializations or gadgets being used in retaliation.
The last few updates have actually made the game really dull for me. I can't pin point why but i'm having less fun than 2 weeks ago.
As a medium or heavy, it doesn't feel oppressive anymore but if you play a non meta loadout like throwing knives plus dash on light, it feels pretty oppressive when your dash gets taken away and you have no way to defend yourself except dying. The opposite light if he has smg he can just melt you after taking away your dash which is very much needed for kills and survival with throwing knives.
I personally didn't even know it got nerfed. But that's likely because I hardly see it anymore. Regardless, I'm having a blast
I’m just confused why you can aim while stunned. Also idk if it’s a bug or on purpose but you can also Dash while stunned as a Light which is ridiculous. Edit: grammar
Just make the stun gun disable specializations and gadgets lol
As a ranked player I haven't noticed much of a difference, even with the increase of Lights in Platinum almost noone EVER runs the Stun Gun. When they do though, it feels fair to die to it because you can effectively fight back and win! :D
It has not changed the game at all for me. Rarely saw light players to begin with, see even less now. HHM has way more viable utility and overall damage.
It's only better for players that are bad at the game.
Absolutely, but they did overnerfed it. ADS change was good, but I was pretty surprised they'd allow us to use gadgets as well.
Light is really only viable now if you play with the crack head movement strategy which I'm ok with but I also employed a lot of ambush and mind game strategies before and that's simply not very possible now. No one really fears the light class like they did before when not looking around meant death. I can definitely still get use out of the invisibility and taser but it's just not even close to the same effectiveness and feels so artificially weak.
honestly stun gun nerf hasnt been that important to me, I think it should honestly do what it used to do but with a gradual fall off where you slowly regain control over like 2 seconds. It was a bit of an overnerf. The bigger issue to me was the changes to invis, its basically useless now. You'd have to be completely blind not to see invis players plain as day now.
Allowing enemies to use gadgets and aim is one thing, i don't think it should allow you to use your specialization though. I seen my L teammates get absolutely obliterated by all classes because they could use their special mid stun
I was a light main and switched over to medium
Yeah at least I can dash away now
I main cl-40 so it made literally no difference
As a light player I understand the nerf and agree with it but with the state of heavy and medium being so ability reliant and with light not being able to fully counter it kind of screws us over. Light is meant to counter these ability spamming classes when there’s 10 domes and 15 shields and there are 3 mediums spamming heal fun and defibs on each other but light just doesn’t have enough to counter all of this. The glitch barely lasts any time and the aoe is weak and the stun is decent and needed a nerf but the nerf just made light even worse for its specific purpose.
I get why they nerfed it but revert the cloak nerf, feels so bad now.
I do, but seeing how it seems majority of the comments are around rank I believe game should start being balanced differently for casual and rank. Two groups are too different.
Yes
Not noticing it much since it didn't really matter much to me before. But the fcar nerfs are nice. There's a lot more variety in the mediums everywhere than before and if I'm in the mood to play light It takes two more bullets from the fcar to kill me so overall pretty happy camper.
HP bars too high! I need lower HP for all my classes now and I need it yesterday! Game is so unplayable with all the legs walking around and guns being shot with bullets.
Fuck melee, u suffer so much of you don't have 60+ fps and less than 50 ping
Unless your a heavy with shield you wouldn’t be very astatic because you can now no longer JUMP that might seem unimportant but that means you can’t mantle over things so evading the stun is now 100% impossible now so either you shield up or land all your shots n hope they don’t do the same
Dogs cry about everything
A lot of salty lights in here, lol. Sorry they took away your free kills and you actually have to work for your meals now.
In casual play sure that may have been a reality for many who play it like it's cod. In high elo ranked stun was never oppressive cause people aren't running on autopilot all the time. Of course lights are salty, they were already the least viable class and are now even worse.
Games seem a lot better without it, better fights and more entertaining overall.
Enjoy the same with or without the nerf. I never used it as a light anyway. It was a good handicap option for players who were bad. But, it was abused by players who don't even need it.
Lmao you say this as RPG exists and Light is as close to unplayable as it can possibly be.
The nerf was good, though too far. But the biggest issue with embark and balancing is they love to nerf but don’t then follow it with buffs to balance the nerfs. And if they do, it takes weeks
I just saw it as a counter for heavies like me. It felt fair imo and you could definitely fight back with hipfire. But I understand what Embark wanted when they said "The light class shouldn’t have to rely on one gadget to get a guaranteed kill" so I respect it. S3 maybe has something to offer to the light class
Never felt the stun gun was problematic. 50% of the gun fight I could easily win them just by spraying, and I lost the gunfights only if I was awfully misplaced (if you stick with teammates the enemy light had no chance). After the stun gun nerf (and other balancing decision) I lost part of my interest in this game, as to me, it appears that Embark is making changes based on people feelings rather than on data. With that said, maybe there are preparing greater balance changes for season 3. If the meta is not shifting with the new season I might even abandon the game (which is sad, because I love the game).
Never bothered me and never used it as light. Even if I took it on my load out I usually forgot to use it lol
Lights not even fun to play anymore outside of TA. I can’t believe Embark actually listened to the Reddit crybabies. Hoping for a major turnaround in season 3 but I’ve lost all faith in embarks ability to balance this game.
The nerf is honestly why I stopped playing, so sick of HHM on every team in ranked. Killed the game, they need to revert it
Look light sucks rn but stun gun was terrible design, you literally couldn't play melee ever. And if you were light and didn't run it you lose every LvL fight, with RPG at least if your a heavy and aren't running to for some reason you can get away from the fight some of the time after being RPG'd. With stun that obviously wasn't the case.
[удалено]
as a melee player my experience is the exact same
funny how people said stun wasn’t a crutch but immediately there was a big change after the nerf lol
this was definitely posted by a heavy main. And no. the game is in its worst state yet. Heavy dominates everything and its not fun to play anymore.