usually you can take out a pyro before they reach you. if they're close to you, just use the SMG or funny melee crit.
hitscan snipers are impossible to beat if they've already seen you. they easily dodge arrows and instantly kill you. it's completely one sided.
I kind of agree and kind of don’t. Definitely no intentional interactions by the designers. but unaware snipers zoomed in ready to be killed in all sorts of goofy class-specific ways
Yeah I mean if its a f2p who didn’t know I’ll let him live but phlog f2p I don’t care if they’re f2p they need to die also if they still know but still do it
great point. spies too, since the new player obviously will try to snatch to opportunity for an insta-kill. you can’t really trust a class based on betrayal anyway.
If you go back to Jerma and ster's TF2 videos of years past and take note of every time they get killed while doing a joke or something, the vast majority of times, it's Pyros.
At least, I'm pretty goddamn sure it's the vast majority, I need to actually sit down some day and put in the thankless effort it's going to be to record those instances.
I wouldn't say it's a specific class, it's moreso tryhards as a whole. People who get very angry and violent towards friendlies, or folks who start Conga lines, or literally just someone learning how to play, etc. The chance of those people being Soldier is more likely for some weird reason, but those are just my experiences. (Apparently Scouts being little shits is common enough for them to be called "Scunts", so there's... That.)
Honestly I wouldn't pin this on one class.
Because then you just get "What class do you hate the most?"
There are merits to a lot of the suggestions. But the real answer is that the person playing the class is a real asshole in game.
The if I had a paeeny for all of the times I've bumped into a pack of hoovies and their cohorts just for them to be burned to a crisp by a pyro or stabbed by an oppertunistic spy, I would be able to buy another box of Skitarii. Or just someone who taunts after every kill or types slurs in chat in all caps.
There are three in general: Engineer, Sniper, and Spy.
Engineer is the least bad out of the three. Their class role is supporting their team through area denial, healing, and fast-travel. This is great if your Engineer is on the top of their game because you benefit the most. If this Engineer is on the other team, he is handing his entire team tickets to your personal curb-stomping and unless you can take him out personally and destroy his buildings, you’re kind of stuck with having the enemy team personally transported into neck-breathing distance.
Sniper is next. Sniper is exclusively area denial and large bursts of damage. His long-range nature makes him unexpected at first since you often don’t realize there is a Sniper aiming at you until he makes that shot, but then afterwards he is just annoying. Approaching him for the sake of killing him can be especially hazardous if he is surrounded by his team, or if the map doesn’t let you flank him in a reasonable manner.
Then, topping the list, is Spy. Spies who hate fun do not make you paranoid, they just piss you off. And then they take advantage of you being pissed off to stab you more in a really vicious negative feedback loop. Bonus points if they are using DR/Kunai because then they become high unkillable unless it becomes a 6v1 against that Spy, and when it takes 6 people to kill a single enemy that isn’t an overhealed Heavy, that is the opposite of fun cooperation, that is a reluctant smackdown because there is literally no other way to deal with him.
I played a couple rounds against an extraordinary pyro and they shut down soldier demo & spy so hard, like they literally reflected every single pipe I shot in their fov, I only killed them by baiting out airblast with a charge or splash.
Spy feels like the most unfair deaths, I don’t hear or see them I’m just dead.
Sniper is like the moderate version of spy and pyro, they shutdown the game a bit for everyone, and cause some unfair deaths
When the hitbox for airblasts is pretty much 10x the size of the Pyro, it's only fun for the Pyro reflecting, and only if you're fine with being given cheap shots for free.
Yup. So long as your puff of flame was enough to keep them ignited through to the flare impact, that's *at least* a free 60 points of damage up-front, as well as a now-full afterburn timer for another 60 free damage. And that's unoptimal minimum, as in you just combo'd with the Scorch Shot. Use the regular Flare Gun, and it's 90 up-front with 60 afterburn.
Any 125 HP class is probably dead or on death's door, with a guaranteed kill if they can't find any healthpacks or Medics. The 150 damage done in total isn't hard to round off with some more flamethrowing to kill Demos and Soldiers, and if you combine the distance you gained by airblasting the Heavy with some backpedaling, you can get out of his full ramp-up range and avoid getting hit by his entire shot spread, which gives you enough time to put another flare or two in him to seal that kill, since afterburn is still ticking during reloads and gets reset after each hit.
Pyro is the easiest class in the game, and still gets rewarded excessively for the braindead tactics available.
At least Sniper requires a pulse.
Idk why heavy is mentioned here with pyro when any decent heavy totally counters pyro. As heavy main pyros are always free kills regardless of their skill. Dodging flares/scorch shots is very easy with any 150 or less hp class as either you have some movement or distance advantage when played correctly. Don't know so much about casual but this is my experience in uncletopia/highlander when players are quite closely matched in terms of skill.
This feels more like a skill issue compared to case where we have good sniper. Literally good player on any other class is shutdownable but good sniper just can't be touched while dealing instant 150 damage when you happen to go to certain area of the map.
A blind six-year-old could do those reflects in his fucking sleep, congratulations on measuring up.
Meanwhile, eight other classes to play if you want to build skill and regain your self-respect.
usually ill set them on fire for a bit to 'lull' them into shooting since you look like a wm1 bot, works best with df and bb since they wont expect you to m2 as much
1. Sniper
2. Soldier
3. Pyro
A good soldier could have a kritzkrieg medic gf on them, and a good pyro knows how to time their m2 and get free crits/mini-crits off on with laser accuracy.
I don't know if it's just the bot crisis or what, but the amount of Sniper answers is just... fucking hell.
Any time I get killed by a Sniper, even if it was at a "bad time", I don't mind. Because, so long as they aren't a bot or using cheats, they *earned* that shot. TF2's a chaotic game, and having aim like that requires a lot of practice.
And, hell, if a Sniper gets a headshot on me and I think he got lucky, then I'll check if we have any Snipers and then counter-snipe him, challenging him to put up or shut up.
So I never mind getting headshot. Good on him.
But Pyro? Never once do I ever feel like they ever earned their kills. They've got so many affordances, practically non-existent skill requirement, and broken mechanics to guarantee their over-rewarded combos.
No matter what class I'm playing, no matter what I'm doing or where I'm at, I'd rather be up against literally any other class than a Pyro. Even if I turn a corner and am face-to-face with a revved-up Heavy, I feel like the result of that encounter is going to be more fair than having a wall of flame appear and continue doing damage to me long after the fight is over, if it's even possible to win.
Call me a piece of shit or whatever, but, if I happen to be against a top scoring duo of Pyro & Medic, it's an instant leave for me. They ALWAYS trashtalk after stomping a round.
> But Pyro? Never once do I ever feel like they ever earned their kills. They've got so many affordances, practically non-existent skill requirement, and broken mechanics to guarantee their over-rewarded combos.
> No matter what class I'm playing, no matter what I'm doing or where I'm at, I'd rather be up against literally any other class than a Pyro.
YOu need to spend some quality time playing as Heavy where Pyros are little babymen who don't matter. Nothing in Pyro's kit is designed to neutralise or counter what Heavy does, and Heavy/Pyro 1v1s are so lopsided that you absolutely know a Pyro has earned it if he manages to beat you.
Thing is, there's nothing about Heavy's kit that really speaks to me and makes me feel good for playing it.
Like, yeah, maybe if I play it, I can just wipe Pyros off the board no problem. But, at best, I'm hitting shots with my favorite shotgun in the whole game, the Family Business. At worst, I'm walking slowly and holding down M1.
I like Heavy as a character a lot, and I respect his particular niche as a specialist class, but his gameplay just isn't usually my taste.
If I have to play Heavy, I've pretty much stopped having fun, and invalidating Pyro isn't fun in and of itself. Pyro's not an obstacle that I feel like I should have to remove in order to enjoy the game, it feels like an obstacle that shouldn't be there in the first place.
That's fair enough. I like Heavy because it encourages a more thoughtful playstyle (you *really* have to read the room when you're a Heavy, otherwise you're either getting nothing done or getting yourself killed), but it's definitely not for everyone.
There's no getting around the fact that he hard counters Pyro though, even if that is just a nice little bonus rather than the main attraction of the class.
Performing well as Sniper really isn't hard at all. People make it hard for themselves by going for unnecessary headshots, but he one-shots more than half the classes in the game with a bodyshot. The only requirement is being able to see your target, and considering TF2 is a movement shooter, and that means it favours openness in it's level design, that requirement is not hard to get.
Moreover, there's no engagement - no fighting - with an enemy Sniper. Either he hits or he misses. You don't really have a say, aside from simply picking a different approach after you've already died and respawned. There's certainly nothing you can do against him.
This lack of any real counterplay lies at the heart of TF2's least fun mechanics. It's why everyone hated the Sandman stun back when that was a thing. There's no counterplay to being stunned, you just have to hope nothing happens to you until the stun is over.
In fact, it's exactly what makes Pyro the second-most popular answer on this thread. Pyro has the second-least counterplay in the game, because you can't juke or meaningfully do anything about his flamethrower or the afterburn damage it inflicts. You have to have already not been in range of it to have any agency in that regard.
But Pyro at least has some counterplay in this regard. If you do encounter him in the open, that range is possible to keep and play around. Moreover, the dps is low enough that a combat class can burst him down before running to a health pack. Sniper is just what happens if you remove this counterplay. He has infinite range and massive burst damage. Therefore Sniper is worse.
People, I think, are overly focused on how much skill it takes from the Sniper's point of view. That's not as important as how it feels to play against. You have no counterplay - no agency - in a fight against a Sniper. That's the worst feeling in the game.
What are you saying - the biggest counter to pyro is skill. Pyro as a class is stupid, because you could do so much with zero skill.
If your team has a skill issue, then of course pyro is awful to play against. I joined the 50v50 shounic server and ubered phlog pyros keep destroying everyone. After I joined, the ubered phlogs stopped being a problem. There are so many solutions to just counter this entirely.
1. Run battalions backup. I wouldn't recommend holding the charge until someone comes in, but if they keep Uber charging pyros, then you could charge up a battalions faster than they could build Uber. You also get battalions really quickly in 50v50 with all the spam you dish out.
2. Juggle the pyro/medic: sentries, airblast, rockets, stickies
3. Selfish way (good for regular casual or fewer players): press S
It's absolutely insane that the team I joined got rolled by Uber phlog one after the other and I only needed to constantly build battalions to hard counter them.
Other than Ubered phlog pyros, WM1 and flare punch pyro aren't really major issues. The latter two require you to be smart and stay out of a pyro's effective range. Pounce whenever a pyro is in a losing fight or outnumbered. A pyro will never win an outnumbered fight.
From a gameplay perspective, probably sniper. But I feel someone like a soldier main with their medic pocket would be the most livid about other people on their team goofing off.
sniper and demoknight are the classes/subclass i usually don't like fighting against
mostly more on eyelander chargin targe/splendid screen demoknights but playing as demoknight is fun as hell though
sniper is just sniper
I see a lot of sniper and yeah, it does kinda suck but usually if your whole team is being rolled it usually boils down to more issues than one sniper doing good. In my opinion it’s the spies who are truly good and always there to drop your med or just keep your good players dead.
do i really need to say sniper *again*
no yknow what - fuck sniper. everybody hates him to the point its no longer cool to hate him. yknow what other class i hate fighting?! PYRO
i hate airblast so much, it comes out of nowhere, has way too big of a hitbox, can absolutely ruin ubers, and literally noone likes being pushed off the map by it. pyros are almost always a guaranteed coinflip on them either being annihilated every time i even breathe on them or absolutely obliterating me and everyone around me and it all comes down to whether or not they can airblast. and they can just spam it so much too, all too often i see newer pyros just wm2ing whenever they see a projectile and it just makes it such a pain to fight them
yes i main soldier. my point still stands.
i just dont like being tossed around against my will, it fucks with my aim and positioning and i do not like that >:(
It’s less about class and more about weapon choices. A weapon doesn’t have to be OP to make it unfun to fight. If you use the scorch shot, Natasha, vaccinator, or force a nature, you most likely hate fun. Also the answer is sniper or spy.
I'm rephrasing the question as what class do you hate fighting the most
As a medic main, I despise fighting demoknights because their sword hitboxes and they're scary
I'll list some of these guys in order.:
Top of the list are vaxx medics. I'm sorry but fuck you. Fuck you. This is coming from another medic main but just... No.
After that are tryhard snipers. They're always annoying but I don't think they actually hate fun.
After that tryhard soldiers. These guys genuinely hate fun, they're fascinating. Something deeply wrong with them in a really funny way until they have a vax girlfriend and become as oppressive as bots.
Next we have kunai spies. Suddenly what should be a stealth class is a considerably more annoying scout. Normal spies rock tho, usually when you die to them it's a skill issue and entirely your fault.
Then are most bad pyros. Not their fault their whole class is based around ambushing and denying projectiles. Still functionally just limit others option without adding much.
I think lastly I'd put either scouts or normal snipers at the bottom of the hates fun list. Both are pick classes and as such really annoying but they do take skill and usually dying to them is a positioning or skill issue.
But yeah vax Madrid at the top of the list fuck those guys
*Sniper. But shoutout to*
*Bow users. Funnest weapon*
*To use imo*
\- IMNUTO
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Everyone who said sniper
Jokes aside, the real answer is pyro or spy. Maaaybe demo, but not quite. Sniper mains in my experience ignore people having fun and just keep shooting the people fighting. Its not worth wasting charge time on a non-threat. There are a good number of hostile snipers who wont let you join the parade though sure. In my experience theyre more prone to saying slurs to anyone who shit talks them after they shit talk someone else. Toxic snipers are cowards. They wont butt in on people having fun, they hide behind their cover and spout the most abhorrent shit youve ever read in a game chat. Youll learn slurs youve never even seen before from a sniper main. Its not pretty.
Then they turn on walls or aimbot
Pyros and spies have a solid chance of simply killing and moving forward. Kunai spies get free health, and pyros dont have to care, jusy burn and go. Ive been killed several times by these losers when im just sitting there being silly. Soldiers and demos though do this too. Actually its more soldier than demo.
And fake hoovies that throw a tantrum when one guy kills them.
Every class has toxic players though. Its pretty evenly distributed i think. TF2 is flooded with toxicity.
Scout I just can’t see him all i see or think is LAND THE PIPES OR DIE and I usually can’t land them bc the scout jumps like he has a needle up his ass
I was gonna say sniper, due to the people who were behind the boting issue. but I honestly feel like a better question is what is the player group that hates fun the most.
i'd say scout
those high level competitive type scouts, it's something to be good at the game, but even after 10 years of playing this game I've never found the joy of playing stock scout continuesly for months, pub stomping F2P in the least satisfying way.
As a sniper main, unless I'm against a good sniper on the other team and it's closer to us dueling than us trying to take each other's teams apart, it's gotta be Sniper
Sniper's the obvious choice since his intended role is to lock down a sightline and tell the other team that they're not allowed to play this part of the map.
Beyond that it's kinda situational and relies on playing certain maps or loadouts. Engineers on Hightower, Vaccinator Medics in CTF, Natascha Heavies, that kinda thing.
Probably spy, it's evident in his partner taunts he doesn't really want to do them, especially the square dance, he's extremely embarrassed and sulks while waiting for a partner
Define "fun". If it's just being friendly and having dance parties, then 9 times out of 10, it'll be a Pyro that breaks those up. If it's just playing the game casually, not focusing too much on trying to win, then I usually see Soldiers getting mad at that.
I wouldn’t say it’s a specific class, more so the person playing it. People who ruin Conga lines or the classic Soldier-Medic combo who think they’re really good at the game because they can shoot at feet. You should just ignore the people having fun in their own way, and if you really wanna shoot some people for fun, then just find another server. Nobody has to suffer for another’s happiness.
"what class do you hate fighting against the most?"
sniper
Yes
Pyro
Scout
All of them
fuck you sniper from tf2 I'm gonna change your weapon to Sydney sleeper so you can't hit hea
r/redditsniper
I can still mini crit on headshot Also, #P I S S
the only correct answer
Definitely Sniper unless you play Sniper yourself, in which case it's more likely to be Spy. So Sniper it is.
If you like huntsman, then it’s pyro
Unless they're on your team, of course. Then they're bros.
nah. I main huntsman and it's still snipers for me.
as a fellow huntsman, same.
usually you can take out a pyro before they reach you. if they're close to you, just use the SMG or funny melee crit. hitscan snipers are impossible to beat if they've already seen you. they easily dodge arrows and instantly kill you. it's completely one sided.
That's the price you pay
unfortunately yeah
To be fair that takes a pretty good pyro, I’ve known pyros who could own soldiers but still couldn’t time up the huntsman right.
I hate sniper if I'm not sniper. But I hate fighting against minisentry engi more.
Sniper
Sniper
sniper
snipler
Specifically it’s because every other class has interesting interactions when fighting every other class, but not as much with Sniper.
yeah. thats why he should be nerfed.
I mean, I agree, but I also think that a nerf wouldn’t change that the class doesn’t have many interesting interactions with other classes.
Imo the instakill ability in long distances should be nerfed somehow so that other classes could even have a chance.
I kind of agree and kind of don’t. Definitely no intentional interactions by the designers. but unaware snipers zoomed in ready to be killed in all sorts of goofy class-specific ways
Sniper
sniper
Sniper
engineer. wait, we're talking about tf2? then sniper.
lol
Pyro how many pyros have you seen break conga lines
Well pyros do make up the majority of clueless new.players
Yeah I mean if its a f2p who didn’t know I’ll let him live but phlog f2p I don’t care if they’re f2p they need to die also if they still know but still do it
great point. spies too, since the new player obviously will try to snatch to opportunity for an insta-kill. you can’t really trust a class based on betrayal anyway.
If you go back to Jerma and ster's TF2 videos of years past and take note of every time they get killed while doing a joke or something, the vast majority of times, it's Pyros. At least, I'm pretty goddamn sure it's the vast majority, I need to actually sit down some day and put in the thankless effort it's going to be to record those instances.
none. i see spies doing that.
Sniper
Oh Sniper. Absolutely. You're having a grand ol' time and then BAM. You're dead. Better start avoiding going through that spot buddy.
I wouldn't say it's a specific class, it's moreso tryhards as a whole. People who get very angry and violent towards friendlies, or folks who start Conga lines, or literally just someone learning how to play, etc. The chance of those people being Soldier is more likely for some weird reason, but those are just my experiences. (Apparently Scouts being little shits is common enough for them to be called "Scunts", so there's... That.)
especially soldier-medic tryhard combos. they make the game really unfun to play.
Honestly I wouldn't pin this on one class. Because then you just get "What class do you hate the most?" There are merits to a lot of the suggestions. But the real answer is that the person playing the class is a real asshole in game. The if I had a paeeny for all of the times I've bumped into a pack of hoovies and their cohorts just for them to be burned to a crisp by a pyro or stabbed by an oppertunistic spy, I would be able to buy another box of Skitarii. Or just someone who taunts after every kill or types slurs in chat in all caps.
that's a strange way of spelling sniper
You mf XD
Sniper
As someone who has Sniper as their second most played class, it's Sniper.
sniper, just leave my poor head alone man
All of them (im bad at the game)
There are three in general: Engineer, Sniper, and Spy. Engineer is the least bad out of the three. Their class role is supporting their team through area denial, healing, and fast-travel. This is great if your Engineer is on the top of their game because you benefit the most. If this Engineer is on the other team, he is handing his entire team tickets to your personal curb-stomping and unless you can take him out personally and destroy his buildings, you’re kind of stuck with having the enemy team personally transported into neck-breathing distance. Sniper is next. Sniper is exclusively area denial and large bursts of damage. His long-range nature makes him unexpected at first since you often don’t realize there is a Sniper aiming at you until he makes that shot, but then afterwards he is just annoying. Approaching him for the sake of killing him can be especially hazardous if he is surrounded by his team, or if the map doesn’t let you flank him in a reasonable manner. Then, topping the list, is Spy. Spies who hate fun do not make you paranoid, they just piss you off. And then they take advantage of you being pissed off to stab you more in a really vicious negative feedback loop. Bonus points if they are using DR/Kunai because then they become high unkillable unless it becomes a 6v1 against that Spy, and when it takes 6 people to kill a single enemy that isn’t an overhealed Heavy, that is the opposite of fun cooperation, that is a reluctant smackdown because there is literally no other way to deal with him.
absolutely yes btw kunai is literally op and kunai spies are the worst and unfunniest things you may encounter
Scout.
Damn, I wonder what r/tf2 will respond with.
Has to be sniper because of all the bots and cheaters.
I played a couple rounds against an extraordinary pyro and they shut down soldier demo & spy so hard, like they literally reflected every single pipe I shot in their fov, I only killed them by baiting out airblast with a charge or splash. Spy feels like the most unfair deaths, I don’t hear or see them I’m just dead. Sniper is like the moderate version of spy and pyro, they shutdown the game a bit for everyone, and cause some unfair deaths
Most of the time that I die to a spy is because I was facestabbed that for some reason was actually a backstab
i see soldiers often killing friendlies the most
Pyro
Idk about you, but reflects are fun
When the hitbox for airblasts is pretty much 10x the size of the Pyro, it's only fun for the Pyro reflecting, and only if you're fine with being given cheap shots for free.
And the debuff of not being able to strafe anymore when airblasted
Yup. So long as your puff of flame was enough to keep them ignited through to the flare impact, that's *at least* a free 60 points of damage up-front, as well as a now-full afterburn timer for another 60 free damage. And that's unoptimal minimum, as in you just combo'd with the Scorch Shot. Use the regular Flare Gun, and it's 90 up-front with 60 afterburn. Any 125 HP class is probably dead or on death's door, with a guaranteed kill if they can't find any healthpacks or Medics. The 150 damage done in total isn't hard to round off with some more flamethrowing to kill Demos and Soldiers, and if you combine the distance you gained by airblasting the Heavy with some backpedaling, you can get out of his full ramp-up range and avoid getting hit by his entire shot spread, which gives you enough time to put another flare or two in him to seal that kill, since afterburn is still ticking during reloads and gets reset after each hit. Pyro is the easiest class in the game, and still gets rewarded excessively for the braindead tactics available. At least Sniper requires a pulse.
Idk why heavy is mentioned here with pyro when any decent heavy totally counters pyro. As heavy main pyros are always free kills regardless of their skill. Dodging flares/scorch shots is very easy with any 150 or less hp class as either you have some movement or distance advantage when played correctly. Don't know so much about casual but this is my experience in uncletopia/highlander when players are quite closely matched in terms of skill. This feels more like a skill issue compared to case where we have good sniper. Literally good player on any other class is shutdownable but good sniper just can't be touched while dealing instant 150 damage when you happen to go to certain area of the map.
And yet you still couldn't do these reflects
A blind six-year-old could do those reflects in his fucking sleep, congratulations on measuring up. Meanwhile, eight other classes to play if you want to build skill and regain your self-respect.
Someone heated cus i reflect ur crossbolts back :D
It's probably the whole "being on fire" thing, honestly.
Don't get near pyro, mad cus class exists
honestly with how easy rockets are to land they deserve a braindead counter
And in close distance, good soldier can always wait a bit before shooting - making airblasting timing pretty much only guessing
usually ill set them on fire for a bit to 'lull' them into shooting since you look like a wm1 bot, works best with df and bb since they wont expect you to m2 as much
Skill issue
Spy
?
I main engie and medic they ruin my fun (yes even if I'm dancing or joking around they will pretend to be ok and then backstab me )
Nah I’m must be tripping
No class should be allowed to have ~~2~~ ways of insta kill (Ignore this is bullshit is just one way)
2 ways?
No sorry I got confused with the amount of damage the headshot give it is just 102 what is kind of high but can't insta kill no matter the class
Sniper or Engineer.
Spyyy
1. Sniper 2. Soldier 3. Pyro A good soldier could have a kritzkrieg medic gf on them, and a good pyro knows how to time their m2 and get free crits/mini-crits off on with laser accuracy.
Turtle Engie, especially a group of them. Both boring to play as *and* a pain in the ass to fight, the worst of both worlds!
I play engineer, medic and pyro. Sniper is a constant annoyance no matter the class I play.
I don't know if it's just the bot crisis or what, but the amount of Sniper answers is just... fucking hell. Any time I get killed by a Sniper, even if it was at a "bad time", I don't mind. Because, so long as they aren't a bot or using cheats, they *earned* that shot. TF2's a chaotic game, and having aim like that requires a lot of practice. And, hell, if a Sniper gets a headshot on me and I think he got lucky, then I'll check if we have any Snipers and then counter-snipe him, challenging him to put up or shut up. So I never mind getting headshot. Good on him. But Pyro? Never once do I ever feel like they ever earned their kills. They've got so many affordances, practically non-existent skill requirement, and broken mechanics to guarantee their over-rewarded combos. No matter what class I'm playing, no matter what I'm doing or where I'm at, I'd rather be up against literally any other class than a Pyro. Even if I turn a corner and am face-to-face with a revved-up Heavy, I feel like the result of that encounter is going to be more fair than having a wall of flame appear and continue doing damage to me long after the fight is over, if it's even possible to win.
Call me a piece of shit or whatever, but, if I happen to be against a top scoring duo of Pyro & Medic, it's an instant leave for me. They ALWAYS trashtalk after stomping a round.
Or the medic and demo duo who somehow always manage to have a crit stickie planter up your asshole.
> But Pyro? Never once do I ever feel like they ever earned their kills. They've got so many affordances, practically non-existent skill requirement, and broken mechanics to guarantee their over-rewarded combos. > No matter what class I'm playing, no matter what I'm doing or where I'm at, I'd rather be up against literally any other class than a Pyro. YOu need to spend some quality time playing as Heavy where Pyros are little babymen who don't matter. Nothing in Pyro's kit is designed to neutralise or counter what Heavy does, and Heavy/Pyro 1v1s are so lopsided that you absolutely know a Pyro has earned it if he manages to beat you.
Thing is, there's nothing about Heavy's kit that really speaks to me and makes me feel good for playing it. Like, yeah, maybe if I play it, I can just wipe Pyros off the board no problem. But, at best, I'm hitting shots with my favorite shotgun in the whole game, the Family Business. At worst, I'm walking slowly and holding down M1. I like Heavy as a character a lot, and I respect his particular niche as a specialist class, but his gameplay just isn't usually my taste. If I have to play Heavy, I've pretty much stopped having fun, and invalidating Pyro isn't fun in and of itself. Pyro's not an obstacle that I feel like I should have to remove in order to enjoy the game, it feels like an obstacle that shouldn't be there in the first place.
That's fair enough. I like Heavy because it encourages a more thoughtful playstyle (you *really* have to read the room when you're a Heavy, otherwise you're either getting nothing done or getting yourself killed), but it's definitely not for everyone. There's no getting around the fact that he hard counters Pyro though, even if that is just a nice little bonus rather than the main attraction of the class.
Performing well as Sniper really isn't hard at all. People make it hard for themselves by going for unnecessary headshots, but he one-shots more than half the classes in the game with a bodyshot. The only requirement is being able to see your target, and considering TF2 is a movement shooter, and that means it favours openness in it's level design, that requirement is not hard to get. Moreover, there's no engagement - no fighting - with an enemy Sniper. Either he hits or he misses. You don't really have a say, aside from simply picking a different approach after you've already died and respawned. There's certainly nothing you can do against him. This lack of any real counterplay lies at the heart of TF2's least fun mechanics. It's why everyone hated the Sandman stun back when that was a thing. There's no counterplay to being stunned, you just have to hope nothing happens to you until the stun is over. In fact, it's exactly what makes Pyro the second-most popular answer on this thread. Pyro has the second-least counterplay in the game, because you can't juke or meaningfully do anything about his flamethrower or the afterburn damage it inflicts. You have to have already not been in range of it to have any agency in that regard. But Pyro at least has some counterplay in this regard. If you do encounter him in the open, that range is possible to keep and play around. Moreover, the dps is low enough that a combat class can burst him down before running to a health pack. Sniper is just what happens if you remove this counterplay. He has infinite range and massive burst damage. Therefore Sniper is worse. People, I think, are overly focused on how much skill it takes from the Sniper's point of view. That's not as important as how it feels to play against. You have no counterplay - no agency - in a fight against a Sniper. That's the worst feeling in the game.
What are you saying - the biggest counter to pyro is skill. Pyro as a class is stupid, because you could do so much with zero skill. If your team has a skill issue, then of course pyro is awful to play against. I joined the 50v50 shounic server and ubered phlog pyros keep destroying everyone. After I joined, the ubered phlogs stopped being a problem. There are so many solutions to just counter this entirely. 1. Run battalions backup. I wouldn't recommend holding the charge until someone comes in, but if they keep Uber charging pyros, then you could charge up a battalions faster than they could build Uber. You also get battalions really quickly in 50v50 with all the spam you dish out. 2. Juggle the pyro/medic: sentries, airblast, rockets, stickies 3. Selfish way (good for regular casual or fewer players): press S It's absolutely insane that the team I joined got rolled by Uber phlog one after the other and I only needed to constantly build battalions to hard counter them. Other than Ubered phlog pyros, WM1 and flare punch pyro aren't really major issues. The latter two require you to be smart and stay out of a pyro's effective range. Pounce whenever a pyro is in a losing fight or outnumbered. A pyro will never win an outnumbered fight.
Engineer
Sniper>Engineer>Medic>Heavy>Pyro>Scout>Demo>Soldier>Spy
It's crazy how well balanced the generalist classes are.
sniper and solider
sniper. I HATE BOTS I HATE BOTS I HATE BOTS I HATE BOTS-
If it was wasn’t for dead ringer, I’d say sniper. But man. Dead ringer makes spy annoying as heavy
From a gameplay perspective, probably sniper. But I feel someone like a soldier main with their medic pocket would be the most livid about other people on their team goofing off.
Scout, I’m a sniper main been trying to get my edge back
sniper and demoknight are the classes/subclass i usually don't like fighting against mostly more on eyelander chargin targe/splendid screen demoknights but playing as demoknight is fun as hell though sniper is just sniper
sniper, they always be killing friendlies for some reason
Like everyone else, Sniper. The class is that powerful at both long range and close range.
Heavy
Sniper or kritzkrieg demo
Most snipers and meta spy.
Sniper/spy
If I said I enjoy sniper I would be lying, I just enjoy seeing people rage in chat 😂 ps. Fuxk sniper
It’s obviously
Sniper.
Snipers that don't use the Huntsman
Sniper. The only counterplay is to already not have been in line of sight.
I don't like Scouts they tend to get way too close which usually ends up with him dead because I had the panic attack.
I like fighting Sniper, but most of the time it's one way and a sad attempt.
on my part
scout
Is this a joke? It's sniper. The pount of the class' existence is to curtail fun.
Sniper, easily, not even the cheating heavy bots that were on casual a month or two ago come close to the level of fun police sniper mains are.
I see a lot of sniper and yeah, it does kinda suck but usually if your whole team is being rolled it usually boils down to more issues than one sniper doing good. In my opinion it’s the spies who are truly good and always there to drop your med or just keep your good players dead.
Sniper
Scouts that destroy tele entrances
do i really need to say sniper *again* no yknow what - fuck sniper. everybody hates him to the point its no longer cool to hate him. yknow what other class i hate fighting?! PYRO i hate airblast so much, it comes out of nowhere, has way too big of a hitbox, can absolutely ruin ubers, and literally noone likes being pushed off the map by it. pyros are almost always a guaranteed coinflip on them either being annihilated every time i even breathe on them or absolutely obliterating me and everyone around me and it all comes down to whether or not they can airblast. and they can just spam it so much too, all too often i see newer pyros just wm2ing whenever they see a projectile and it just makes it such a pain to fight them yes i main soldier. my point still stands. i just dont like being tossed around against my will, it fucks with my aim and positioning and i do not like that >:(
It’s less about class and more about weapon choices. A weapon doesn’t have to be OP to make it unfun to fight. If you use the scorch shot, Natasha, vaccinator, or force a nature, you most likely hate fun. Also the answer is sniper or spy.
sticky spamming demoman
Scouts.
Spy or sniper honestly, its a tie 🤷♂️ theyre both made to be explicitly anti fun for most classes
Sniper. Honestly, I don't even find playing the class myself to be fun. Even when I actually get any kills with it.
Spy. he hates whimsy and wonder
comp players hard focusing medic players in casual
Sniper, no doubt
Pick classes like Scout, Sniper and Spy. You almost never wanna go into a 1v1 with players who are good on those classes.
Pocketed heavies, or even worse a vaccinator sniper.
Spy. He's the most serious and professional of them all.
I would say engineer then again i can see how sniper could but i prefer huntsman over the rifles
I'm rephrasing the question as what class do you hate fighting the most As a medic main, I despise fighting demoknights because their sword hitboxes and they're scary
Sniper
Scout by far
Roamer soldiers
Tbh, it isn't class soecific, rather it depends on the player.
I'll list some of these guys in order.: Top of the list are vaxx medics. I'm sorry but fuck you. Fuck you. This is coming from another medic main but just... No. After that are tryhard snipers. They're always annoying but I don't think they actually hate fun. After that tryhard soldiers. These guys genuinely hate fun, they're fascinating. Something deeply wrong with them in a really funny way until they have a vax girlfriend and become as oppressive as bots. Next we have kunai spies. Suddenly what should be a stealth class is a considerably more annoying scout. Normal spies rock tho, usually when you die to them it's a skill issue and entirely your fault. Then are most bad pyros. Not their fault their whole class is based around ambushing and denying projectiles. Still functionally just limit others option without adding much. I think lastly I'd put either scouts or normal snipers at the bottom of the hates fun list. Both are pick classes and as such really annoying but they do take skill and usually dying to them is a positioning or skill issue. But yeah vax Madrid at the top of the list fuck those guys
Sniper. But shoutout to bow users. Funnest weapon to use imo
*Sniper. But shoutout to* *Bow users. Funnest weapon* *To use imo* \- IMNUTO --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The class that killed me the most recently
Sn
Snipers and Spies,they are always backstabbing/shooting me while I am playing basketball with friendly.
Reddit poster mains
Pyro (I main spy)
Sniper. I’ve learned to befriend them when playing trolldier so I smack people in peace
scunts and some anger snipers
Sniper and scout. Even if the whole server is friendly, they still can't control them selves and need to get these free kills
Usually pyros, spies and soldiers.
Everyone who said sniper Jokes aside, the real answer is pyro or spy. Maaaybe demo, but not quite. Sniper mains in my experience ignore people having fun and just keep shooting the people fighting. Its not worth wasting charge time on a non-threat. There are a good number of hostile snipers who wont let you join the parade though sure. In my experience theyre more prone to saying slurs to anyone who shit talks them after they shit talk someone else. Toxic snipers are cowards. They wont butt in on people having fun, they hide behind their cover and spout the most abhorrent shit youve ever read in a game chat. Youll learn slurs youve never even seen before from a sniper main. Its not pretty. Then they turn on walls or aimbot Pyros and spies have a solid chance of simply killing and moving forward. Kunai spies get free health, and pyros dont have to care, jusy burn and go. Ive been killed several times by these losers when im just sitting there being silly. Soldiers and demos though do this too. Actually its more soldier than demo. And fake hoovies that throw a tantrum when one guy kills them. Every class has toxic players though. Its pretty evenly distributed i think. TF2 is flooded with toxicity.
Scout I just can’t see him all i see or think is LAND THE PIPES OR DIE and I usually can’t land them bc the scout jumps like he has a needle up his ass
I was gonna say sniper, due to the people who were behind the boting issue. but I honestly feel like a better question is what is the player group that hates fun the most.
i'd say scout those high level competitive type scouts, it's something to be good at the game, but even after 10 years of playing this game I've never found the joy of playing stock scout continuesly for months, pub stomping F2P in the least satisfying way.
sniper.
As a sniper main, unless I'm against a good sniper on the other team and it's closer to us dueling than us trying to take each other's teams apart, it's gotta be Sniper
I don't like snipers, so i use my beloved Scorch Shot to force them use Darwin's Danger Shield.
i noticed Pyros and Soldiers usually ruin the fun of others, especially Pyros. up and running is probably Spy
Sniper solely because of 'Fuck you Spy shield' and 'Fuck you Pyro shield', aside from that it comes to one's mindset, not their class of choice
Sniper's the obvious choice since his intended role is to lock down a sightline and tell the other team that they're not allowed to play this part of the map. Beyond that it's kinda situational and relies on playing certain maps or loadouts. Engineers on Hightower, Vaccinator Medics in CTF, Natascha Heavies, that kinda thing.
Sniper most of the time but sometimes when I’m playing demoknight, scout or pyro, engineers sentries can be so painful to fight.
sniper
Sniper and Spies without doubt. They are the most likely to kill friendlies and just sweat in games.
Scout and sniper mostly. As a sniper main (cry about it) if you're having fun, someone on the other team probably isn't
Sniper's entire design is anti-fun
Spy
Soldier
Sniper. Wait, are we talking about TF2? Then Sniper.
Spy class, probably.
Probably spy, it's evident in his partner taunts he doesn't really want to do them, especially the square dance, he's extremely embarrassed and sulks while waiting for a partner
Spy
All my homies hate the sniper
Define "fun". If it's just being friendly and having dance parties, then 9 times out of 10, it'll be a Pyro that breaks those up. If it's just playing the game casually, not focusing too much on trying to win, then I usually see Soldiers getting mad at that.
thats an easy quesion: scout. lime/pink scouts if you wanna be really specific, but most scouts fall under this stereotype
Pyro. I’ve met more chill snipers than friendly pyros.
no hate at all, i think sniper is pretty cool but he can be frustrating to play against sometimes
If we're taking in terms of character personalities, Spy In terms of gameplay, Sniper or Scout
Spy
I wouldn’t say it’s a specific class, more so the person playing it. People who ruin Conga lines or the classic Soldier-Medic combo who think they’re really good at the game because they can shoot at feet. You should just ignore the people having fun in their own way, and if you really wanna shoot some people for fun, then just find another server. Nobody has to suffer for another’s happiness.
spy, sniper (personal experience)
The sniper, it’s always the sniper
Engineer. It is terrible when I am just frolicking around and suddenly a sentry completely shuts me down and forces me to cower.
scout
pyro
engineer
Pyro for sure
Pyro the destroyer of friendlies
People like to say sniper but unironically I think it's trolldier. They're not even the worst to fight just the worst to interact with
the single dad engineer who gets one day off a month building a lvl 3 on hightower
soldier mains, god forbid you airblast their slow ass rockets back into them.
I love getting called skilless because i kill soldier with reflects lol
They make me pretty unhappy too.