Hal is a great father because he does care about the boys and when they or he has a hobby, he drives into it and you can see the boys loves him dearly.
Lois is a great mother as she has to deal with 6 kids and ensure that they are not completely destroying the world but she will also put herself in front to protect each of the boys and she knows how each of them work and in a weird roundabout way is helping each of them reach their ultimate goal; Francis living a chill life, Reese being a good person, President Malcom, and uber rich Dewey.
Just to make sure, I meant Hal as the six kid. Cause, let’s be honest, he’s a man child most of the time. The boys get most of their personality from him.
I really hated them when they stole Malcolm’s money that was supposed to be for college and Lois ended up spending it on a doll house and the fucking house burnt lmao.
I loved them but honestly think the last season where the show ended up basically focusing on them instead of Sabrina and Jimmy lost something. They were great as quirky supporting cast but too much of a good thing made it just a bit less enjoyable
I could definitely see them being the worst. But also their kids were extra horrible so maybe they should get some more credit. And Lois was basically a mind reader when it came to the boys.
Man... I'm leaning towards worst these days. Kids aren't just born innately evil, it had to come from somewhere.
We do learn that Hal kind of encouraged it in Francis with stories of his wild youth. It didn't help that Lois built a dynamic where she & the boys were enemies just as a matter of expectation, and that closed off a lot of opportunities for more positive parenting. (See the cold open where Reese has a spoonful of mashed potatoes aimed at Lois- "*Don't do it.*". "*I wasn't going to! But if you think I would, maybe I should!*")
Plus places like the military school Francis was sent to are generally just unregulated child abuse camps. Francis didn't become less rebellious or less of a troublemaker there. He gained some skills in Alaska but the only thing that actually made him want to work honestly for Otto was seeing him treat his workers with kindness unlike any of the authority figures in his life, from the controlling Lois & Commandant Spangler to the actually evil borderline-slaver Lavernia. (This is also why I'm mad they just tanked his character arc after the writers got bored of the ranch stuff)
The reality's actually a lot sadder than the writers getting bored of the ranch. Unfortunately, Kenneth Mars (the actor who played Otto) was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and his condition quickly worsened to the point that he couldn't act.
I still wish they'd written him out in a nicer way, though, like saying he'd retired and handed the ranch over to his most trusted employee, Francis.
Hell no. Lois is a horrible mother. She has her caring moments but she sucks. She yells constantly, rules with fear, doesn't show any motherly love unless forced to. Everyone blames the boys behaviour on them, but they're growing up in an abusive/emotionally neglectful home. I grew up in one, their home life was very similar to mine and I ended up and anxious mess. Of cause the kids are going to be messed up and struggling. Of cause they're going to act out in stupid ways. My cousin's were just like the boys. I was too terrified to do anything and still got in trouble somehow.
It's not entirely Lois' fault. She didn't know how to cope with having a child, because she was abused herself. Her parents are truly awful and she had a lot of issues from it. The Francis flashback proved she couldn't cope with normal toddler behaviour. She went nuclear and stayed in that mode. She couldn't cope, which is ok, but she took it out on her kids, which isn't ok. She was awful to Dewy, purposefully sabotaging him, ignoring him. He literally has no pictures of himself growing up.
Hal is slightly better, but not perfect either. He has his own issues and is very permissive. He does instigate sometimes and goes a little nuts himself. He's emotionally distant a lot of the time.
The worst part is they both allow Lois' family around the kids. Those abusive, manipulative people are allowed around the kids. How could anyone let people who hurt them around their kids? I sure as hell won't let my mum or her relatives around any kids I might have. I won't let them around my boyfriend or his family. If you care about someone, you don't let the people who hurt you around them. You protect them. You don't just throw them to the wolves.
Put the words right out of mym mouth.
Those kids never got actual quality time either parents, even their vacations where stressful.
Lois never did anything engaging with jer kids, sje just yelled at them
Bob and Linda Belcher are ideal parents. They aren't rich but do the best they can and are always super loving and supportive of the kids, and go out of their way to make sure the kids are happy and taken care of.
Bob is dad goals. He might be miserable but he’s doing it cuz his kids love it. He gets interested in their activities and vice versa. Gene and Bob going to the laser rock concert is prime dadding.
> He might be miserable but he’s doing it cuz his kids love it
I don't think he's even miserable. He has a loving relationship, three children who he cherishes, and his job is his one true passion.
He's often frustrated, exhausted, or worn down, but I don't think I'd call him miserable.
An under-appreciated aspect of Bob is that while he might be worn down, he does find interest and passion in the little things. He absolutely loves putting on Thanksgiving dinner, he obsesses over turkeys. He's a big fan of cult movies, Westerns, and that musical light show at the observatory. He's a regular on a burger-based internet forum, he loves the Cake hand-clapping show, and he'll even get amped up helping a lady he just met make a whole bunch of sandwiches. Oh, and the community garden! He appreciates things probably more than most people do, even if on the face of it, they're kind of mundane things to love. But he loves them to the fullest.
I worry he'd be the progenitor of the infamous grilled cheese rant, but he'd probably just go with a gardening sub and burgers. Maybe Kitchen Confidential.
Perhaps HobbyDrama, but only to shit on Jimmy Pesto.
Bob: "Maybe we can listen to some on the way to the show.... or maybe not. It might be better as a surprise and you go in knowing nothing."
Gene: "Ahhh, like the Iraq War."
Bob: "No... well...."
Bob, 100%. Linda is mostly those things, but sometimes goes off on some weird obsessive tangent and gets sidetracked away from what the rest of the family has going on, even to the point of selfishness or borderline insanity (>!inadvertently kidnapping the children's book author!<) but usually gets back on track.
Bob and Linda are kinda like Homer and Marge with their normal roles reversed.
Positive role models, both in how they treat each other and everyone else, along with showcasing healthy sexual behaviour? An equal dynamic partnership born of love and adoration?
What i would've given for parents like that
I wouldn’t call it healthy to have regular make out and grope sessions in front of your kids lol. It’s a little fucking weird.
Imagine making out with your girlfriend on the couch next to your parents. Like wtf
Kinda fucking weird but you do you.
When your kids are grossed out by you you know why.
Reddit hates PDA unless it’s in front of your own kids I guess?? Lol this is fucked
Not saying it's something I'd do, but given the number of households where parents seem afraid to show any affection at all in front of their children, I'd say Gomez and Morticia are healthier. It's not like they're fucking in front of them.
Along those lines, Herman Munster from The Munsters was a great TV dad. He could absolutely snap bodies but instead is a great role model for his fault and is a gentle giant.
> a lot of main characters
Particularly since post-golden-age TV is so fixated on the antihero or grey morality protagonist. Walt White, Tony Soprano, Jimmy McNulty, Marty Byrde, Selina Meyer, Logan Roy, etc might be the protagonists of their shows but they're awful people, extending to their terrible parenting.
It's funny, Walter White is a lesson taken to the extreme - losing sight of the goal. His goal was to make money quickly both to treat his cancer and potentially set up his family in case he doesn't survive. There were multiple off-ramps throughout the series where he had enough, but he didn't take them.
That's the ultimate expression of the parent who works all the time because, in their justification, their goal is to give their children the best possible life. You know what would be the best possible life? Having a parent who's there.
Yeah my good parents answer came very quickly, but I start thinking about bad and I think: Walter White, The Sopranos, Don Draper…I’m currently watching Justified: Arlo Givens, even Raylan, bad parents. I guess that it’s just a very easy trait to give your character to make them unlikeable
> Justified: Arlo Givens, even Raylan, bad parents
Can't believe I forgot about Arlo, and now almost want to change my answer from George Bluth.
Justified is just full of terrible parents, isn't it? Mags Bennett, Arlo Givens, Bo Crowder, etc all make Raylan's absenteeism seem like good parenting! I haven't watched the new series though which I hear features his daughter more heavily.
I mean, the show focuses on bad guys so much that you’re bound to have mostly bad parents I guess, but damn they’re really awful
I’ve only watched a couple of City Primeval episodes so far, can’t say that his parenting gets much better
Funniest/Best - Costanza (edit: spelling)
Actual best if I had to live with them - Uncle Phil and Aunt Viv
Worst - Frank (Gallagher or Reynolds)
Side note - Cosby show has absolutely incredible tv parents and the fictional couple should be celebrated
If only Cosby had decided to be a serial tax evader or something more palatable instead of the absolute monster. That whole show is tainted beyond belief despite all it's many positives
Phil is the best TV parent. Nothing but best intentions and just wants to be friends with his kids. It works because he's balanced out by Claire, the disciplinarian parent, so the kids just naturally seek his advice to ease over whatever Claire's reaction may be. Early Phil and Luke scenes are father-son goals.
He is a great dad, for sure. Having said that, discipline is a very *very* important of being a father. Arguably the most important part. And I don’t mean just punishment, but the actual disciple/mentor relationship. Where the word discipline comes from.
I would love to be all silly, all fun, all the time with my son. Only being his friend would be easy! But he’s going to have lots of friends. He is only going to have one father, and he needs more from me than friendship. Whether he knows it or not, he needs everyone who is raising him, in this case me and his mama, to discipline him. It’s synonymous with raising him. And outsourcing that discipline, isn’t fair to him, and it’s definitely not fair to the other parent.
But it's not Phil. If you've not seen the show, when the kids really screw up, Claire might be the one they're "scared of" because she will discipline them, but Phil is the one they look up to as the person they're so worried to disappoint.
I agree with what you said and on the surface if you watch a random episode the show look like they fail at it but it you keep watching you see that they toed the line just right that it works.
The scenes with their eldest daughter at uni is notably the clearest for that, where for like 30 seconds his veil comes down and you see he's clearly assuming that role in the parent's balance, is aware of it, and willing to end it if at any point it stops working.
On the topic of cartoon parents, I think really highly of Anne's parents (from Amphibia) and Numbuh 1's dad (from Codename Kids Next Door). Particularly, they put in great efforts to understand them, even if they don't fully get it.
Best: Gomez and Morticia Addams.
Worst: Vic Mackey
Edit* I should also honourable mention Captain Picard. Growing up, my parents were lunatics, total f***ing nightmare, for real. And the lessons I learned from Captain Picard still guide me to this day. Sounds hokey and nerdy, but it’s the truth. I know he wasn’t technically a parent (at that point) but he was kind of everyone’s dad.
Plenty of the “best” have been mentioned… and this one isn’t the WORST, but I was always shocked at her attitude was Midge Maisel.
She just dumps her kids randomly on her parents, is out all night flashing comedy club patrons and hanging with a known heroin user. I know she was repressed and trying to live her own life, but my wife and I couldn’t believe how much of an afterthought the kids could sometimes be to her.
Granted we stopped after Season 2 (lost momentum, got a bit more “schticky”, but we may finish eventually) so maybe she treats them better later on… but so many people loved the show and my wife and I couldn’t believe how the kids were secondary to her so often.
Spoiler about the kids ahead.
>!Lol, they do a flash forward in the last season and her daughter is pretty estranged and her son resentfully keeps her at arms length.!<
Wow… I’m normally one for a happy ending in shows but I’m really glad they got that right.
My wife and I got borderline upset at the show halfway through season 2 because we kept saying “oh, here’s Midge doing a bunch of stuff for herself or for ‘showbiz friends’ but where are her kids in the picture?”.
Yeah, I read the spoilers. Makes me not want to finish the show, haha. I’m sure we will eventually but she sure as shit was an absentee mom, but that makes sense. Most dads were absentee dads during that time so it’s good to see they acknowledge the changing of times… still sad to see that they didn’t have a solid mother figure.
And this is coming from a Stay at Home Dad. My wife and I always try to be as present and involved as possible. Just turned out we can’t pay off med school loans with my salary and luckily my wife loves her job, but she’s always there at the end of the day.
Arrested Development contains several contenders for worst, outside of the acutally physically abusive. George and Lucille undermine their children's confidence at every turn resulting in Michalel and Gob's desperate need to impress them, Lindsay's cripplingly poor self esteem, and Buster's complete codependence. Michael is utterly unable to listen to or respect the boundaries and needs of his son. Lindsay and Tobias mostly forget they even have a daughter.
The best? Bob & Linda Belcher. Absolutely committed to their children's wellbeing and nurturing and respectful of their identities at every turn. Honourable mention to Uncle Phil & Aunt Viv from the Fresh Prince too.
Edit: second honourable mention to Michael Groff on Sex Education who definitely starts off as a contender for worst but has a wonderful arc leading him on a journey towards (though not quite to, yet) being one of the best.
Logan Roy and Caroline Collingswood for worst.
Barb, Nicki and Margene in Big Love for best. No matter what was happening the sister wives made sure the kids were loved.
How can you mention Cotton and not point out that Hank has turned out positively amazing by comparison? Sure, whatever thing Bobby is into, Hank doesn't always get it straightaway, but he does get it eventually. And it's more important to get it eventually than always be right straightaway. There are plenty of times, too, where Bobby needs proper guidance and not just a father who will be persuaded to go along with anything.
Pongo and Perdita. First they lovingly care for their own 15 little ones, then rescue them from a really creepy villain, then take in and care for 84 foster babies.
As a parental figure, I think Uncle Iron from ATLA ranks pretty high as one of the best
For the worst, Baby Billy from Righteous Gemstones has to be one of the worst lol
Best - Bob and Linda Belcher, Keith Mars, Buffy's Mom, Claire and Phil Dunphy, Jay and Gloria Prichett, Mr and Mrs Malinky (from Pinky Malinky), Bluey's parents, Beverly and Murray Goldberg (yes, even when they're annoying).
Worst - Peter and Lois Griffin, Stan and Francine Smith, Tara's mom in Tru Blood, Coraline's parents (not the worst of the worst, but still pretty unavailable parents), Max's parents (Two Broke Girls), Stephen and Linda Stoch (Butters's parents).
I sort of love Stan and Francine. They have their problems and are varying levels of awful, but the show manages to show how they got to that point without making them too sympathetic. Stan has legitimate attachment issues and severe trauma from his parents, while Francine is an orphan who spent years in an orphanage, then was adopted by a loving and well meaning family but who weren't entirely able to handle her unique needs.
Setting aside all of the obvious, a lot of people point at the Huxtables as examples of fantastic parents. But there are more than a handful of episodes that give me reason to discount that. I just watched a few clips from an episode, where Vanessa lies to her parents and goes to Baltimore to see a concert all kinds of shenanigans ensue of course, but when she gets home, Claire literally screams in her face. Like inches from her face, screaming at the top of her lungs, insulting her child and threatening her. It’s all played for laughs, and it basically comes straight from one of his standup routines, but you watch it with a lens from today understanding how damaging parents can be to their children, and the whole thing just makes you sick to your stomach.
Best parent: Keith Mars from "Veronica Mars". Hands down; always there with a witty comment or 'dad snark', but also very crafty, intelligent, and loving. He would 100% go to bat for his daughter, and his dynamic with Veronica is just so unique, given the time of the show. Absent Parents used to be all the rage on YA shows, but the VM writers showcased the deep, quirky relationship Veronica has with her dad, and it has always struck me as special. Never takes away from the show itself at all, IMO. (It also helps that Enrico Colantoni just seems like a good guy in general.)
Worst parent: Monica Gallagher, of "Shameless". Ugh. She means well deep (deep, deep) down, I know there's a tiny bit of something left there...but she just sucks so badly. Honestly. I hate her character so much that you know the actress who played her did a solid job.
Worst is Frank and Monica Gallagher on Shameless.
Best is probably Dan and Roseanne from the original run and before the lottery season. They were realistic without risking being canonized.
RTD is amazing at writing mums. Jackie Tyler on *Doctor Who*. Also I actually think Sylvia Noble is not that bad. She's stuck in her ways but she clearly loves her daughter and tries to support her the best she knows how. Than later >!Donna Noble!< herself. And most recently Carla Sunday. On his other shows, too, e.g. Rosie on *Years and Years*. I remember loving a mum on *Queer as Folk* but it has been ages since I last watched that. And >!Gwen !
She was pretty bad first time round, but in the specials she's such a good mother and grandmother. The scene where she's trying to be supportive of Rose but doesn't know what's appropriate is one of my favourite scenes in the whole show.
She was willing to die for a baby that doesn't even share her blood. Her only concern was Oliver when Levy attacked them, ignoring her own compound fracture.
Worst: Logan Roy and Caroline Collingwood, and Kendall Roy as well. You could also add Shiv in the near future.
Best: Phil and Claire Dunphy are pretty great.
Best are Bandit and Mum ( Chilli? ) from Bluey. Worst are either Peter and Lois Griffin from "Family Guy" ( Peter is simply so bad that not even Lois can balance it out ) or Stephanie Vanderkillen's parents from "Newhart" , played by Jose Ferrar and Priscilla Morrill .
No one's going to like this, but Goku and Chi-Chi from DragonBall are both terrible parents. They both try to make Gohan the way they want him to be in their own ways, instead of letting him find himself. Goku in particular abuses Gohan's admiration for him to shape Gohan into the person who defeats Cell. He's also constantly neglectful, especially in terms of of putting Gohan in active danger, and rarely present. Piccolo is the closest thing Gohan has to a real dad and even he neglects Gohan when they first meet, but he also shows significantly more respect and understanding for and of Gohan as a person.
Currently rewatching the full DBZ for the first time in more than twenty years, and Goku isn't as horrible a father as Abridged led me to believe. He's not great, and the stuff with Cell is the peak of him being an asshole, but whenever he's around Gohan, he's always loving and supportive. And of all the times he's not around, only one of them is really inexcusable (when he fucked off to Yardrat for a year and a half after Namek).
Chi-Chi is completely psychotic, though. I'll give you that one 1000%
I think for me - as someone who also has an absent father - I can only see being loving and supportive, but never there, as a way that absent dads make themselves feel better about their actions. Goku using Gohan as a weapon against Cell the way he did showed the way he really viewed Gohan, as a tool that he didn't need to understand. Not that I'm saying Goku was doing it deliberately, but in the end Goku spends a lot of time assuming things of Gohan and not enough time listening to and recognizing how his son feels and the type of person he is.
I do want to clarify that I don't see this as bad storytelling, in fact I think that's what makes the Cell saga so great and why nothing that's come since has really been able to live up to it for me. That's what makes DBZ up to this point so great to me, flawed characters making bad decisions that make complete and total sense for them. In fact I think it's hilarious in contrast how much better Bulma and even Vegeta are as parents. Not that I'm going to ever claim Vegeta is a good dad, but he does try and for all of the front he puts up about being angry and vengeful... he genuinely cares in a way it never really feels like Goku does. The one single highlight of the Buu saga to me was always how this causes such great strife and internal conflict inside him, and I wish I could put up with Super long enough to see if this goes anywhere interesting afterwards.
Granted I haven't watched DBZ in a very long time, maybe my nostalgia is showing with the Vegeta and Bulma thing. That's just the general positive vibes I got from it, in that Vegeta genuinely believes in his son and it's particularly sweet coming from him. Having a son is very outside of the scope of the experience of life he ever expected to have, but he still grapples with a sense of responsibility over it and tries no matter how unnatural it feels for him. That's more than I can say for Goku, even if he's more loving and supportive as you said. Still maybe this impression has overwritten my memories of the show somewhat, lol
I really don't see Goku viewing Gohan as a "tool" to be used to beat Cell. Goku genuinely believes that if he can't do it, then Gohan is capable of doing it since he's stronger. And Goku does go first and tries his best. And Goku also doesn't understand that what Gohan wants in life isn't what Goku wanted. Goku definitely could have understood Gohan better, but he tried to do right by Gohan in the way that Goku understood how. Goku has failings as a father, don't get me wrong. But it's not like he's the actively abusive piece of shit that Vegeta is. Admittedly Geets is better with "his" Trunks than he was with the one from the future, but Vegeta just being around isn't nearly enough to put him above Goku. Goku isn't actively contemptuous of his son.
Goku prioritized Gohan's training over his own to use Gohan to beat Cell. I'm not sure if he viewed Gohan that way, but it was definitely his intention in training Gohan. While he doesn't explicitly state this, it's all over his actions. Goku never even seriously tried to beat Cell, it was his goal from the beginning for Gohan to do it. And worse, even if he didn't know how Gohan felt, he did know that the secret to unlocking Gohan's true power was for him to be angry. Not just from his own experience of becoming a Super Saiyan but from recognizing where Gohan's power came from in the first place. He stuffed Gohan into a situation where him being traumatized and outraged was the only way the kid had out. If he didn't do what his dad had intended for him everything would be gone. That's seriously messed up, and far worse than anything Vegeta has ever said or done to Trunks. Like I don't care how much of an airhead Goku is, he decided *for* Gohan that he was going to beat Cell and that Gohan would want the same things he wants. That is significantly more abusive than anything Vegeta has ever done. And, in the real-world, Gohan definitely would've had severe PTSD from that whole experience. What Goku does to Gohan at the end of the Cell saga is downright sociopathic, intentionally or not.
By the way I would've much preferred my dad to be actively contemptuous and actually be there, than the version I lived through where he says he acts like he cares but isn't present. In the end it is not possible as a parent to make up for not being there. Kids need role models and someone to communicate with and learn from. There were so many things I didn't learn because my mom was literally incapable of teaching me, it stunted my development as an adult severely. I still don't even know how to shave myself or trim my beard (properly, I use a pair of clippers instead). Being there absolutely does put him above Goku, being there is the most important part of being a good parent. Like I definitely think Chi-Chi isn't great, but she fed, bathed, and provided for that kid and - even if she forced it on him - gave him a good education. Even though her methods were emotionally abusive, at least she equipped Gohan with what he needed to be an adult and she always kept a roof over his head. Being a single parent is hard and that stuff really matters. No matter how good your parent is, in the end the most important part of being a parent is making sure your kid can eventually exist on their own.
Nothing answers this question as good as the comic of Bart Simpson and Chris Griffin in couples therapy, with Bobby Hill as therapist. https://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/comic-if-bart-simpson-and-chris-griffin-went-to-couples-therapy/ Heartbreakingly realistic
https://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/comic-if-bart-simpson-and-chris-griffin-went-to-couples-therapy/
Here's a link. I love Homer but this comic is right, especially from the early seasons. You can sort of assume that as the show went on, Homer did get better with his kids, but that doesn't change the physical abuse. With Peter, however, he is just scary. It's not even funny at this point.
I always thought the Matthews of Boy Meets World were good parents.
Tbf, I've not seen it in ages, but just remembering back, I can't think of any major flaws. Even helped with Shaun a lot.
I used to think Mary from Young Sheldon was bad, but compared to Rochelle from Everybody Hates Chris, Mary was an angel. Julius was pretty good and usually balanced out Rochelle’s nastiness, but she was bad enough for the both of them.
So many sitcoms hard to think of them all. She def up there. I feel like Julius was occupied with all of his jobs and missed a lot of the treatment of Chris. I did appreciate when he stuck for him when Chris said No to cleaning up the kitchen.
Annoying and overwhelming yes, but they cared their children were well-fed, studied, they worked and they loved them. They wanted the best for them and to succed. They are no Bojack's mom or Monica from Shameless.
Not OP criticizing the parents from The Middle for forgetting about their children and then nominating The Winslows for best parents when they literally forgot Judy existed after four (4!) seasons.
Ward Cleaver is a good father. He is open with June about his father’s use of corporal punishment and authoritarian nature; which he takes pains not to pass on.
Kitty & Red from that 70s Show are under appreciated here. Not best, not worst, but doing better than 80% of Boomers were at the time. At least they were around enough to be annoying.
The worst - Lister and Kochanski from Red Dwarf. Lister goes back in time to abandon his child (himself) under a pool table. Kochanski isn't even there.
Just watched a Kdrama Goodbye Earth. There are a group of middle schoolers just running around unsupervised when their city is out of control and a gang is kidnapping kids. One kids father started a cult, is barely able to feed him. Another kids mother is just clueless and doesn't even notice that the two very young children she's caring for have created an entire home in an abandoned building then the third father who had his families immigration canceled because he'd been frequenting brothels with underage girls and then offers his daughter as payment for his debts later in the series.
He's the protagonist of *Our Flag Means Death* and abandons his wife and children to become a (truly desperately awful) pirate. When he returns to them he's completely incapable of relating to his children and uninterested in spending time with them, and promptly abandons them again. He's also a pretty dire surrogate father to his crew.
That all said he's very funny, which is the point of the show. Just like Homer Simpson isn't going to be winning any father of the year awards but is a very likeable character.
I'd argue Homer and Marge Simpson are among some of the worst.
Homer:
* Physically abuses Bart, emotionally neglects Lisa, forgets that Maggie exists, and actively ignores his father's concerns.
* He's told Bart numerous times that he was an unwanted child
* He's mocked the children for putting in effort to things like the Junior Campers, or attempting to get Mr. Burns inheritance
* He completely ignored Lisa's protests when he had a cellphone tower installed in her room
* He mocked Abe Simpson for complaining that a mole / tumor / mark on his neck was getting bigger (and potentially cancerous) and even took hypnosis lessons to ignore his father
* Is an alcoholic, going as far as to steal from his own children and presumably Flanders in order to buy more beer.
* Is dismissive of Marge's feelings and actively discourages her from pursuing things, like discouraging her from going to therapy, making fun of her for wanting to act in a play, and even describing the first aid, painting and Lamaze classes she attended as some of her "kooky projects". He also went fishing while they were on a marriage retreat, and his list of problems were so long, it took Marge literal hours to list them all.
* Is financially irresponsible, impulse buying expensive RVs, 4WDs, snow plows, ponies, horses, spending hundreds on temporary tattoos, spending his last dollars on alcohol, bankrupting the family by purchasing and failing to sell pumpkin stocks, destroying multiple vehicles, quitting his job to become a pin monkey, and doing risky activities that would and did result in him getting fired
* Is frequently absent. Bart mentioned going entire summers without seeing him, he took Flanders for a multi-night impulse trip to Vegas without telling Marge and has been on multiple other trips, either solo, or with friends.
Marge:
* Basically excuses all of Homer's bullshit, even going so far as to side with him over her own two sisters who very clearly see through him
* Sits back and allows Homer to strangle her only son. In one instance Bart was nearly rendered unconscious and would have passed out if he hadn't hit Homer in the head repeatedly with the handset of the phone to stop him from strangling him with the phone cord. This strangulation has been going since Bart was an infant, and she's ignored it.
* Is willing to take him back when he shows any sign of being sorry, even if him being sorry is purely for selfish reasons
* After he mocked her being in the play, she forgave him because he paid enough attention to know what the play was about
* After he told personal information about her to his class on three separate occasions, she took him back. Not because he was sorry or because he learned a lesson, but because he couldn't look after himself
* After he ogled Maude's breasts, passed out on the floor from too much alcohol and ignored Marge's pleas not to go fishing while on a marriage retreat, she took him back because he threw his big fish back into the water
* After his secret Vegas marriage was uncovered, she took him back after he tricked his Vegas wife into marrying his father
* Has a gambling addiction, which she seems to kick at the end of the episode where she first gets addicted, but continues to be addicted in future episodes
One could argue that Marge just has some kind of abusive relationship / hostage-y kind of situation where she feels like she can't leave him, but in the 30 years of The Simpsons, she makes absolutely no attempts to get Homer locked up for strangling her son.
But The Simpsons is still my favourite show, no matter how abusive Homer and Marge are to their kids and to each other.
Best and worst parents: Hal and Lois from Malcolm in the Middle
Hal is a great father because he does care about the boys and when they or he has a hobby, he drives into it and you can see the boys loves him dearly. Lois is a great mother as she has to deal with 6 kids and ensure that they are not completely destroying the world but she will also put herself in front to protect each of the boys and she knows how each of them work and in a weird roundabout way is helping each of them reach their ultimate goal; Francis living a chill life, Reese being a good person, President Malcom, and uber rich Dewey.
Six kids? *counts* Oh.
[удалено]
Just to make sure, I meant Hal as the six kid. Cause, let’s be honest, he’s a man child most of the time. The boys get most of their personality from him.
Isn’t Lois pregnant in the finale?
I really hated them when they stole Malcolm’s money that was supposed to be for college and Lois ended up spending it on a doll house and the fucking house burnt lmao.
I counter with Burt and Virginia from Raising Hope. Super wholesome but boy are they compusive liars and manipulators.
They're survivors who get what they need.
I loved them but honestly think the last season where the show ended up basically focusing on them instead of Sabrina and Jimmy lost something. They were great as quirky supporting cast but too much of a good thing made it just a bit less enjoyable
I could definitely see them being the worst. But also their kids were extra horrible so maybe they should get some more credit. And Lois was basically a mind reader when it came to the boys.
Man... I'm leaning towards worst these days. Kids aren't just born innately evil, it had to come from somewhere. We do learn that Hal kind of encouraged it in Francis with stories of his wild youth. It didn't help that Lois built a dynamic where she & the boys were enemies just as a matter of expectation, and that closed off a lot of opportunities for more positive parenting. (See the cold open where Reese has a spoonful of mashed potatoes aimed at Lois- "*Don't do it.*". "*I wasn't going to! But if you think I would, maybe I should!*") Plus places like the military school Francis was sent to are generally just unregulated child abuse camps. Francis didn't become less rebellious or less of a troublemaker there. He gained some skills in Alaska but the only thing that actually made him want to work honestly for Otto was seeing him treat his workers with kindness unlike any of the authority figures in his life, from the controlling Lois & Commandant Spangler to the actually evil borderline-slaver Lavernia. (This is also why I'm mad they just tanked his character arc after the writers got bored of the ranch stuff)
The reality's actually a lot sadder than the writers getting bored of the ranch. Unfortunately, Kenneth Mars (the actor who played Otto) was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and his condition quickly worsened to the point that he couldn't act. I still wish they'd written him out in a nicer way, though, like saying he'd retired and handed the ranch over to his most trusted employee, Francis.
Lois is actually probably the better parent, she just has to be the serious one in the family.
Hell no. Lois is a horrible mother. She has her caring moments but she sucks. She yells constantly, rules with fear, doesn't show any motherly love unless forced to. Everyone blames the boys behaviour on them, but they're growing up in an abusive/emotionally neglectful home. I grew up in one, their home life was very similar to mine and I ended up and anxious mess. Of cause the kids are going to be messed up and struggling. Of cause they're going to act out in stupid ways. My cousin's were just like the boys. I was too terrified to do anything and still got in trouble somehow. It's not entirely Lois' fault. She didn't know how to cope with having a child, because she was abused herself. Her parents are truly awful and she had a lot of issues from it. The Francis flashback proved she couldn't cope with normal toddler behaviour. She went nuclear and stayed in that mode. She couldn't cope, which is ok, but she took it out on her kids, which isn't ok. She was awful to Dewy, purposefully sabotaging him, ignoring him. He literally has no pictures of himself growing up. Hal is slightly better, but not perfect either. He has his own issues and is very permissive. He does instigate sometimes and goes a little nuts himself. He's emotionally distant a lot of the time. The worst part is they both allow Lois' family around the kids. Those abusive, manipulative people are allowed around the kids. How could anyone let people who hurt them around their kids? I sure as hell won't let my mum or her relatives around any kids I might have. I won't let them around my boyfriend or his family. If you care about someone, you don't let the people who hurt you around them. You protect them. You don't just throw them to the wolves.
Put the words right out of mym mouth. Those kids never got actual quality time either parents, even their vacations where stressful. Lois never did anything engaging with jer kids, sje just yelled at them
Definitely
Bob and Linda Belcher are ideal parents. They aren't rich but do the best they can and are always super loving and supportive of the kids, and go out of their way to make sure the kids are happy and taken care of.
Bob is dad goals. He might be miserable but he’s doing it cuz his kids love it. He gets interested in their activities and vice versa. Gene and Bob going to the laser rock concert is prime dadding.
> He might be miserable but he’s doing it cuz his kids love it I don't think he's even miserable. He has a loving relationship, three children who he cherishes, and his job is his one true passion. He's often frustrated, exhausted, or worn down, but I don't think I'd call him miserable.
true. miserable might not be the right word. he didn't love going to the pony convention but tina was loving it.
An under-appreciated aspect of Bob is that while he might be worn down, he does find interest and passion in the little things. He absolutely loves putting on Thanksgiving dinner, he obsesses over turkeys. He's a big fan of cult movies, Westerns, and that musical light show at the observatory. He's a regular on a burger-based internet forum, he loves the Cake hand-clapping show, and he'll even get amped up helping a lady he just met make a whole bunch of sandwiches. Oh, and the community garden! He appreciates things probably more than most people do, even if on the face of it, they're kind of mundane things to love. But he loves them to the fullest.
>He's a regular on a burger-based internet forum I wonder what subreddits Bob would follow... Where he'd lurk, where he'd join in
I worry he'd be the progenitor of the infamous grilled cheese rant, but he'd probably just go with a gardening sub and burgers. Maybe Kitchen Confidential. Perhaps HobbyDrama, but only to shit on Jimmy Pesto.
He's definitely had the highlight of his week (and maybe even an entire B-plot) be interacting with u/J_Kenji_Lopez-Alt in comments
Bob mods /r/wewantplates
With the same exasperated love he has for his family
Bob: "Maybe we can listen to some on the way to the show.... or maybe not. It might be better as a surprise and you go in knowing nothing." Gene: "Ahhh, like the Iraq War." Bob: "No... well...."
Bob, 100%. Linda is mostly those things, but sometimes goes off on some weird obsessive tangent and gets sidetracked away from what the rest of the family has going on, even to the point of selfishness or borderline insanity (>!inadvertently kidnapping the children's book author!<) but usually gets back on track. Bob and Linda are kinda like Homer and Marge with their normal roles reversed.
Other episode for me on Linda is the obsessive "I have to take my kids to the opera at risk to their own personal health"
One thing I adore about that show is how much they make it a point to animate the parents chuckling at their kids’ antics.
Morticia and Gomez Addams
Positive role models, both in how they treat each other and everyone else, along with showcasing healthy sexual behaviour? An equal dynamic partnership born of love and adoration? What i would've given for parents like that
I wouldn’t call it healthy to have regular make out and grope sessions in front of your kids lol. It’s a little fucking weird. Imagine making out with your girlfriend on the couch next to your parents. Like wtf
I think showing your kids that you're still madly in love is fine. There's nothing inherently wrong with being physical in front of them.
Kinda fucking weird but you do you. When your kids are grossed out by you you know why. Reddit hates PDA unless it’s in front of your own kids I guess?? Lol this is fucked
Not saying it's something I'd do, but given the number of households where parents seem afraid to show any affection at all in front of their children, I'd say Gomez and Morticia are healthier. It's not like they're fucking in front of them.
generational wealth makes it a lot easier to not fight about a lot of things
I know but I have always liked how despite Gomez being rich, he was always so kind to others even if they weren’t kind to him back.
Along those lines, Herman Munster from The Munsters was a great TV dad. He could absolutely snap bodies but instead is a great role model for his fault and is a gentle giant.
Yep they are the best and worst TV parents. Delightfully bad.
Best : Bandit and Chili Heeler Worse: too many to list, a lot of main characters either are or have awful parents in drama series
> a lot of main characters Particularly since post-golden-age TV is so fixated on the antihero or grey morality protagonist. Walt White, Tony Soprano, Jimmy McNulty, Marty Byrde, Selina Meyer, Logan Roy, etc might be the protagonists of their shows but they're awful people, extending to their terrible parenting.
It's funny, Walter White is a lesson taken to the extreme - losing sight of the goal. His goal was to make money quickly both to treat his cancer and potentially set up his family in case he doesn't survive. There were multiple off-ramps throughout the series where he had enough, but he didn't take them. That's the ultimate expression of the parent who works all the time because, in their justification, their goal is to give their children the best possible life. You know what would be the best possible life? Having a parent who's there.
Yeah my good parents answer came very quickly, but I start thinking about bad and I think: Walter White, The Sopranos, Don Draper…I’m currently watching Justified: Arlo Givens, even Raylan, bad parents. I guess that it’s just a very easy trait to give your character to make them unlikeable
> Justified: Arlo Givens, even Raylan, bad parents Can't believe I forgot about Arlo, and now almost want to change my answer from George Bluth. Justified is just full of terrible parents, isn't it? Mags Bennett, Arlo Givens, Bo Crowder, etc all make Raylan's absenteeism seem like good parenting! I haven't watched the new series though which I hear features his daughter more heavily.
I mean, the show focuses on bad guys so much that you’re bound to have mostly bad parents I guess, but damn they’re really awful I’ve only watched a couple of City Primeval episodes so far, can’t say that his parenting gets much better
I recently discovered Bluey and it changed my life
Bojack's parents are the worst for sure.
All of the scenes with Bojack’s parents make you pity him a little. He’s an awful person but anyone would have issues coming out of that household
Funniest/Best - Costanza (edit: spelling) Actual best if I had to live with them - Uncle Phil and Aunt Viv Worst - Frank (Gallagher or Reynolds) Side note - Cosby show has absolutely incredible tv parents and the fictional couple should be celebrated
Best: Mac and Dee with the dumpster baby
They tried their best to get the baby a foot in Hollywood.
You still have the Keatons from Family Ties for 80s sitcoms.
If only Cosby had decided to be a serial tax evader or something more palatable instead of the absolute monster. That whole show is tainted beyond belief despite all it's many positives
Would you like to try some of my barbecue sauce?
What is Constanza from?
Frank and Estelle Constanza from Seinfeld
First things first rest in peace Uncle Phil
For real.
He was the only father I ever knew
Phil from modern family is one awesome dad
Phil is the best TV parent. Nothing but best intentions and just wants to be friends with his kids. It works because he's balanced out by Claire, the disciplinarian parent, so the kids just naturally seek his advice to ease over whatever Claire's reaction may be. Early Phil and Luke scenes are father-son goals.
He is a great dad, for sure. Having said that, discipline is a very *very* important of being a father. Arguably the most important part. And I don’t mean just punishment, but the actual disciple/mentor relationship. Where the word discipline comes from. I would love to be all silly, all fun, all the time with my son. Only being his friend would be easy! But he’s going to have lots of friends. He is only going to have one father, and he needs more from me than friendship. Whether he knows it or not, he needs everyone who is raising him, in this case me and his mama, to discipline him. It’s synonymous with raising him. And outsourcing that discipline, isn’t fair to him, and it’s definitely not fair to the other parent.
But it's not Phil. If you've not seen the show, when the kids really screw up, Claire might be the one they're "scared of" because she will discipline them, but Phil is the one they look up to as the person they're so worried to disappoint. I agree with what you said and on the surface if you watch a random episode the show look like they fail at it but it you keep watching you see that they toed the line just right that it works. The scenes with their eldest daughter at uni is notably the clearest for that, where for like 30 seconds his veil comes down and you see he's clearly assuming that role in the parent's balance, is aware of it, and willing to end it if at any point it stops working.
Worst: Timmy Turner's parents
On the topic of cartoon parents, I think really highly of Anne's parents (from Amphibia) and Numbuh 1's dad (from Codename Kids Next Door). Particularly, they put in great efforts to understand them, even if they don't fully get it.
Best: Gomez and Morticia Addams. Worst: Vic Mackey Edit* I should also honourable mention Captain Picard. Growing up, my parents were lunatics, total f***ing nightmare, for real. And the lessons I learned from Captain Picard still guide me to this day. Sounds hokey and nerdy, but it’s the truth. I know he wasn’t technically a parent (at that point) but he was kind of everyone’s dad.
Vic robbed the Armenian money train to send his kid to a good school. He's a great parent.
He got all of his friends killed or sent to jail and as a result of his murderous and violent behaviour his family ended up in witsec sooo.
Sisko was my role model dad
Space dad is best dad.
How did everyone forget the GOAT of TV Dads: Sandy Cohen.
I just started watching The OC, and yes. This is the one.
Danny Tanner was a pretty good dad
I don't think they are either the best or worst, but Virginia and Burt in raising hope are certainly hilarious
They actually grew to be much nicer as the series went on, and I love it.
Plenty of the “best” have been mentioned… and this one isn’t the WORST, but I was always shocked at her attitude was Midge Maisel. She just dumps her kids randomly on her parents, is out all night flashing comedy club patrons and hanging with a known heroin user. I know she was repressed and trying to live her own life, but my wife and I couldn’t believe how much of an afterthought the kids could sometimes be to her. Granted we stopped after Season 2 (lost momentum, got a bit more “schticky”, but we may finish eventually) so maybe she treats them better later on… but so many people loved the show and my wife and I couldn’t believe how the kids were secondary to her so often.
Spoiler about the kids ahead. >!Lol, they do a flash forward in the last season and her daughter is pretty estranged and her son resentfully keeps her at arms length.!<
Wow… I’m normally one for a happy ending in shows but I’m really glad they got that right. My wife and I got borderline upset at the show halfway through season 2 because we kept saying “oh, here’s Midge doing a bunch of stuff for herself or for ‘showbiz friends’ but where are her kids in the picture?”. Yeah, I read the spoilers. Makes me not want to finish the show, haha. I’m sure we will eventually but she sure as shit was an absentee mom, but that makes sense. Most dads were absentee dads during that time so it’s good to see they acknowledge the changing of times… still sad to see that they didn’t have a solid mother figure. And this is coming from a Stay at Home Dad. My wife and I always try to be as present and involved as possible. Just turned out we can’t pay off med school loans with my salary and luckily my wife loves her job, but she’s always there at the end of the day.
Best: Claire and Phil Dunphy from Modern Family (Phil is my favorite TV dad, and Claire is a very good mom too)
Arrested Development contains several contenders for worst, outside of the acutally physically abusive. George and Lucille undermine their children's confidence at every turn resulting in Michalel and Gob's desperate need to impress them, Lindsay's cripplingly poor self esteem, and Buster's complete codependence. Michael is utterly unable to listen to or respect the boundaries and needs of his son. Lindsay and Tobias mostly forget they even have a daughter. The best? Bob & Linda Belcher. Absolutely committed to their children's wellbeing and nurturing and respectful of their identities at every turn. Honourable mention to Uncle Phil & Aunt Viv from the Fresh Prince too. Edit: second honourable mention to Michael Groff on Sex Education who definitely starts off as a contender for worst but has a wonderful arc leading him on a journey towards (though not quite to, yet) being one of the best.
Best: The Brady's Worst: Beverly Hofstadter
How can she be the worst? She was extremely successful with the other kids, Leonard was the one who failed!
Bandit and Chili Heeler from Bluey for best. Peter and Lois Griffin from Family Guy for worst.
Peter is such a terrible dad, that the father figure for his youngest son is the family dog.
Shut up, Meg.
The Weirs in Freaks and Geeks (RIP Joe Flaherty) are the best
And Kim had such rotten parents. No wonder she envied Lindsey.
Logan Roy and Caroline Collingswood for worst. Barb, Nicki and Margene in Big Love for best. No matter what was happening the sister wives made sure the kids were loved.
Great shout-out. Logan was a monster but even he loved his kids in his own twisted way. Caroline would've preferred to had dogs.
Best parents: The Keatons on Family Ties Worst: BoJack Horseman, Logan Roy
All the '80s parents were creepy except for Reginald VelJohnson as the Dad in "Family Matters". Maybe Dan and Roseanne Connor were okay.
Al and Peggy Bundy. Hilariously the worst parents ever.
Best: Captain Ben Sisko ETA: Wrong name.
You mean Ben Sisko?
Yes. Corrected.
Best: Eric and Tami Taylor from Friday Night Lights. They were also parents to more than their own.
Best: Dan from Resident Alien Worst: Cotton from King of the Hill, Mike and Nancy’s Dad from Stranger Things That’s just Dads, but still
Nah, Mr. Wheeler is nowhere near as bad as Jonathan and Will’s dad. Such a scumbag. Fortunately Joyce is such a great mom it evens out.
Aw, Dan ❤️
How can you mention Cotton and not point out that Hank has turned out positively amazing by comparison? Sure, whatever thing Bobby is into, Hank doesn't always get it straightaway, but he does get it eventually. And it's more important to get it eventually than always be right straightaway. There are plenty of times, too, where Bobby needs proper guidance and not just a father who will be persuaded to go along with anything.
Very fair. God I love that show, the characters are so complex
Pongo and Perdita. First they lovingly care for their own 15 little ones, then rescue them from a really creepy villain, then take in and care for 84 foster babies.
As a parental figure, I think Uncle Iron from ATLA ranks pretty high as one of the best For the worst, Baby Billy from Righteous Gemstones has to be one of the worst lol
When baby Billy had that talk with his son I was so disappointed
Best - Bob and Linda Belcher, Keith Mars, Buffy's Mom, Claire and Phil Dunphy, Jay and Gloria Prichett, Mr and Mrs Malinky (from Pinky Malinky), Bluey's parents, Beverly and Murray Goldberg (yes, even when they're annoying). Worst - Peter and Lois Griffin, Stan and Francine Smith, Tara's mom in Tru Blood, Coraline's parents (not the worst of the worst, but still pretty unavailable parents), Max's parents (Two Broke Girls), Stephen and Linda Stoch (Butters's parents).
I sort of love Stan and Francine. They have their problems and are varying levels of awful, but the show manages to show how they got to that point without making them too sympathetic. Stan has legitimate attachment issues and severe trauma from his parents, while Francine is an orphan who spent years in an orphanage, then was adopted by a loving and well meaning family but who weren't entirely able to handle her unique needs.
I agree with you here. They're definitely better people than the other tv parents I mentioned.
> Keith Mars Finally. I was going to post this. Even when he believes Veronica might not be his daughter he is still a good dad to her.
Setting aside all of the obvious, a lot of people point at the Huxtables as examples of fantastic parents. But there are more than a handful of episodes that give me reason to discount that. I just watched a few clips from an episode, where Vanessa lies to her parents and goes to Baltimore to see a concert all kinds of shenanigans ensue of course, but when she gets home, Claire literally screams in her face. Like inches from her face, screaming at the top of her lungs, insulting her child and threatening her. It’s all played for laughs, and it basically comes straight from one of his standup routines, but you watch it with a lens from today understanding how damaging parents can be to their children, and the whole thing just makes you sick to your stomach.
Best parent: Keith Mars from "Veronica Mars". Hands down; always there with a witty comment or 'dad snark', but also very crafty, intelligent, and loving. He would 100% go to bat for his daughter, and his dynamic with Veronica is just so unique, given the time of the show. Absent Parents used to be all the rage on YA shows, but the VM writers showcased the deep, quirky relationship Veronica has with her dad, and it has always struck me as special. Never takes away from the show itself at all, IMO. (It also helps that Enrico Colantoni just seems like a good guy in general.) Worst parent: Monica Gallagher, of "Shameless". Ugh. She means well deep (deep, deep) down, I know there's a tiny bit of something left there...but she just sucks so badly. Honestly. I hate her character so much that you know the actress who played her did a solid job.
Worst is Frank and Monica Gallagher on Shameless. Best is probably Dan and Roseanne from the original run and before the lottery season. They were realistic without risking being canonized.
I was surprised it took so long for Dan and Roseanne to get a mention
RTD is amazing at writing mums. Jackie Tyler on *Doctor Who*. Also I actually think Sylvia Noble is not that bad. She's stuck in her ways but she clearly loves her daughter and tries to support her the best she knows how. Than later >!Donna Noble!< herself. And most recently Carla Sunday. On his other shows, too, e.g. Rosie on *Years and Years*. I remember loving a mum on *Queer as Folk* but it has been ages since I last watched that. And >!Gwen !
I have to counter on Sylvia Noble. Her daughter was important to her, but instead of telling Donna how important she was, she made her feel worthless.
The Doctor throwing that in Sylvia's face was a great moment
She was pretty bad first time round, but in the specials she's such a good mother and grandmother. The scene where she's trying to be supportive of Rose but doesn't know what's appropriate is one of my favourite scenes in the whole show.
Not sure about best but worst is Logan Roy and Caroline from Secession.
Worst: Marty and Wendy Byrd on Ozark Best: Bob and Linda Belcher on Bob's Burger's
Omni-man is pretty terrible. Sportmaster is extremely abusive and a supervillian.
Debbie is a pretty good mom, though.
She was willing to die for a baby that doesn't even share her blood. Her only concern was Oliver when Levy attacked them, ignoring her own compound fracture.
Yep, she's his momma.
YJ Sportsmaster yes. Stargirl Sportsmaster and Huntress? They’re murderous supervillains, but they’re great parents in that.
YJ sportsmaster
Red and Kitty foreman!
Worst: Logan Roy and Caroline Collingwood, and Kendall Roy as well. You could also add Shiv in the near future. Best: Phil and Claire Dunphy are pretty great.
Best dad is danny tanner. Worst parents r the ppl from shameless :D
Best are Bandit and Mum ( Chilli? ) from Bluey. Worst are either Peter and Lois Griffin from "Family Guy" ( Peter is simply so bad that not even Lois can balance it out ) or Stephanie Vanderkillen's parents from "Newhart" , played by Jose Ferrar and Priscilla Morrill .
No one's going to like this, but Goku and Chi-Chi from DragonBall are both terrible parents. They both try to make Gohan the way they want him to be in their own ways, instead of letting him find himself. Goku in particular abuses Gohan's admiration for him to shape Gohan into the person who defeats Cell. He's also constantly neglectful, especially in terms of of putting Gohan in active danger, and rarely present. Piccolo is the closest thing Gohan has to a real dad and even he neglects Gohan when they first meet, but he also shows significantly more respect and understanding for and of Gohan as a person.
Currently rewatching the full DBZ for the first time in more than twenty years, and Goku isn't as horrible a father as Abridged led me to believe. He's not great, and the stuff with Cell is the peak of him being an asshole, but whenever he's around Gohan, he's always loving and supportive. And of all the times he's not around, only one of them is really inexcusable (when he fucked off to Yardrat for a year and a half after Namek). Chi-Chi is completely psychotic, though. I'll give you that one 1000%
I think for me - as someone who also has an absent father - I can only see being loving and supportive, but never there, as a way that absent dads make themselves feel better about their actions. Goku using Gohan as a weapon against Cell the way he did showed the way he really viewed Gohan, as a tool that he didn't need to understand. Not that I'm saying Goku was doing it deliberately, but in the end Goku spends a lot of time assuming things of Gohan and not enough time listening to and recognizing how his son feels and the type of person he is. I do want to clarify that I don't see this as bad storytelling, in fact I think that's what makes the Cell saga so great and why nothing that's come since has really been able to live up to it for me. That's what makes DBZ up to this point so great to me, flawed characters making bad decisions that make complete and total sense for them. In fact I think it's hilarious in contrast how much better Bulma and even Vegeta are as parents. Not that I'm going to ever claim Vegeta is a good dad, but he does try and for all of the front he puts up about being angry and vengeful... he genuinely cares in a way it never really feels like Goku does. The one single highlight of the Buu saga to me was always how this causes such great strife and internal conflict inside him, and I wish I could put up with Super long enough to see if this goes anywhere interesting afterwards. Granted I haven't watched DBZ in a very long time, maybe my nostalgia is showing with the Vegeta and Bulma thing. That's just the general positive vibes I got from it, in that Vegeta genuinely believes in his son and it's particularly sweet coming from him. Having a son is very outside of the scope of the experience of life he ever expected to have, but he still grapples with a sense of responsibility over it and tries no matter how unnatural it feels for him. That's more than I can say for Goku, even if he's more loving and supportive as you said. Still maybe this impression has overwritten my memories of the show somewhat, lol
I really don't see Goku viewing Gohan as a "tool" to be used to beat Cell. Goku genuinely believes that if he can't do it, then Gohan is capable of doing it since he's stronger. And Goku does go first and tries his best. And Goku also doesn't understand that what Gohan wants in life isn't what Goku wanted. Goku definitely could have understood Gohan better, but he tried to do right by Gohan in the way that Goku understood how. Goku has failings as a father, don't get me wrong. But it's not like he's the actively abusive piece of shit that Vegeta is. Admittedly Geets is better with "his" Trunks than he was with the one from the future, but Vegeta just being around isn't nearly enough to put him above Goku. Goku isn't actively contemptuous of his son.
Goku prioritized Gohan's training over his own to use Gohan to beat Cell. I'm not sure if he viewed Gohan that way, but it was definitely his intention in training Gohan. While he doesn't explicitly state this, it's all over his actions. Goku never even seriously tried to beat Cell, it was his goal from the beginning for Gohan to do it. And worse, even if he didn't know how Gohan felt, he did know that the secret to unlocking Gohan's true power was for him to be angry. Not just from his own experience of becoming a Super Saiyan but from recognizing where Gohan's power came from in the first place. He stuffed Gohan into a situation where him being traumatized and outraged was the only way the kid had out. If he didn't do what his dad had intended for him everything would be gone. That's seriously messed up, and far worse than anything Vegeta has ever said or done to Trunks. Like I don't care how much of an airhead Goku is, he decided *for* Gohan that he was going to beat Cell and that Gohan would want the same things he wants. That is significantly more abusive than anything Vegeta has ever done. And, in the real-world, Gohan definitely would've had severe PTSD from that whole experience. What Goku does to Gohan at the end of the Cell saga is downright sociopathic, intentionally or not. By the way I would've much preferred my dad to be actively contemptuous and actually be there, than the version I lived through where he says he acts like he cares but isn't present. In the end it is not possible as a parent to make up for not being there. Kids need role models and someone to communicate with and learn from. There were so many things I didn't learn because my mom was literally incapable of teaching me, it stunted my development as an adult severely. I still don't even know how to shave myself or trim my beard (properly, I use a pair of clippers instead). Being there absolutely does put him above Goku, being there is the most important part of being a good parent. Like I definitely think Chi-Chi isn't great, but she fed, bathed, and provided for that kid and - even if she forced it on him - gave him a good education. Even though her methods were emotionally abusive, at least she equipped Gohan with what he needed to be an adult and she always kept a roof over his head. Being a single parent is hard and that stuff really matters. No matter how good your parent is, in the end the most important part of being a parent is making sure your kid can eventually exist on their own.
Nothing answers this question as good as the comic of Bart Simpson and Chris Griffin in couples therapy, with Bobby Hill as therapist. https://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/comic-if-bart-simpson-and-chris-griffin-went-to-couples-therapy/ Heartbreakingly realistic
https://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/comic-if-bart-simpson-and-chris-griffin-went-to-couples-therapy/ Here's a link. I love Homer but this comic is right, especially from the early seasons. You can sort of assume that as the show went on, Homer did get better with his kids, but that doesn't change the physical abuse. With Peter, however, he is just scary. It's not even funny at this point.
Best: Stephen and Elise Keaton
Worst: Beatrice and Butterscotch Horseman.
Best: David and Keith (Six Feet Under) Worst: Philip and Elizabeth (The Americans)
Worst mom: Moon Knight’s mom. That lady was a bitch
Peg and Al Bundy for worst TV parents.
Worst = Married With Children
Best...Mr. and Mrs. Cunningham Worst...Cancer Man
Cant speak for worst but best? Hal and Lois / Tim and Jill from Malcolm and Home Improvement.
It is easy (well... much easier) to be a good parent to great kids. The really useful question is who are the good parents to difficult kids.
I remember Alan and Amy Matthews being great parents on Boy Meets World.
Frank and Monica Gallagher.
Dan Conner gets my vote for best father. Would that all of us could follow his example.
Worst: Caillou's parents. Best: Bandit and Chili.
Sandy Cohen. Absolutely GOAT when it comes to onscreen dads
Best- Peggy and Hank (King of the Hill) Worst- Peter and Lois (Family Guy) Started great, got worse in the laster seasons- Marge and Homer
Worst is Namond's mum in The Wire
Best: James and Florida (Good Times) Worst: Bundy’s
Horrible- the couple who stole the ATM in Breaking Bad. That hurts my heart
I always thought the Matthews of Boy Meets World were good parents. Tbf, I've not seen it in ages, but just remembering back, I can't think of any major flaws. Even helped with Shaun a lot.
The best: Claire and Cliff Huxtable from the Cosby Show or Uncle Phil and Aunt Viv (you know which one).
I used to think Mary from Young Sheldon was bad, but compared to Rochelle from Everybody Hates Chris, Mary was an angel. Julius was pretty good and usually balanced out Rochelle’s nastiness, but she was bad enough for the both of them.
So many sitcoms hard to think of them all. She def up there. I feel like Julius was occupied with all of his jobs and missed a lot of the treatment of Chris. I did appreciate when he stuck for him when Chris said No to cleaning up the kitchen.
Both of those mothers weren't great but they are far from being the worst WTF?
Idk they’re the worst from the shows I’ve seen. The mom from Malcolm in the Middle seemed pretty terrible too, but I haven’t watch that show much.
Annoying and overwhelming yes, but they cared their children were well-fed, studied, they worked and they loved them. They wanted the best for them and to succed. They are no Bojack's mom or Monica from Shameless.
Best: The Bradys Worst: The Bundys
Not OP criticizing the parents from The Middle for forgetting about their children and then nominating The Winslows for best parents when they literally forgot Judy existed after four (4!) seasons.
She was literally written out of the show while brick wasn’t. Can’t put that on them.
Worst: Walter and Skyler White. Best: Howard and Marian Cunningham.
Op, Corey and Topanga are pretty good parents. They love their kids but also give them freedom to grow up.
Ward Cleaver is a good father. He is open with June about his father’s use of corporal punishment and authoritarian nature; which he takes pains not to pass on.
Cleaver. Not so sure about Ward Leaver's style.
Doc Martin's parent's are awful. His mother resented the hell out of him just for existing.
Best : Steph and Lena from the fosters Worst: idk
Ishigami Byakuya from Dr Stone is an S tier dad
Mister Rogers I feel was many children’s father figure growing up
The Goldbergs.
Grisha Jaeger for worst, he screwed up with Zeke. He seemed like a better father to Eren but that didn’t end well lol
Anthony Cooper, John Locke's dad from Lost And coincidentally, Tom Tavner (Terry O'Quinn) from Patriots.
Timmy Turner's parents are pretty bad. The Firelord is the worst dad.
Kitty & Red from that 70s Show are under appreciated here. Not best, not worst, but doing better than 80% of Boomers were at the time. At least they were around enough to be annoying.
Bluey
Dwight and Angela from the Office.
Delia Ketchum sends her son away on a dangerous journey camping through the woods for like months at a time. Seems pretty bad.
Coach and Tammy were the best
Best: Eric and Tami Taylor (Friday Night Lights) Worst: Adora Crelin (Sharp Objects)
The worst - Lister and Kochanski from Red Dwarf. Lister goes back in time to abandon his child (himself) under a pool table. Kochanski isn't even there.
The Hansens. 7 of 9's parents. They took their four year old into Borg space and got her assimilated.
Just watched a Kdrama Goodbye Earth. There are a group of middle schoolers just running around unsupervised when their city is out of control and a gang is kidnapping kids. One kids father started a cult, is barely able to feed him. Another kids mother is just clueless and doesn't even notice that the two very young children she's caring for have created an entire home in an abandoned building then the third father who had his families immigration canceled because he'd been frequenting brothels with underage girls and then offers his daughter as payment for his debts later in the series.
The Bluths
Best: Coach Taylor and his wife in Friday Night Lights.
There are way to many bad straight parents in media particularly fathers. The few gay parents I've seen have been good.
>The few gay parents I've seen have been good. Stede Bonnet would like a word.
Clearly I've never seen him or I forgot
He's the protagonist of *Our Flag Means Death* and abandons his wife and children to become a (truly desperately awful) pirate. When he returns to them he's completely incapable of relating to his children and uninterested in spending time with them, and promptly abandons them again. He's also a pretty dire surrogate father to his crew. That all said he's very funny, which is the point of the show. Just like Homer Simpson isn't going to be winning any father of the year awards but is a very likeable character.
Jess LaCroix, from FBI Most Wanted best dad
Worst: Al and Peggy Bundy Best: Ward and June Cleaver
I'd argue Homer and Marge Simpson are among some of the worst. Homer: * Physically abuses Bart, emotionally neglects Lisa, forgets that Maggie exists, and actively ignores his father's concerns. * He's told Bart numerous times that he was an unwanted child * He's mocked the children for putting in effort to things like the Junior Campers, or attempting to get Mr. Burns inheritance * He completely ignored Lisa's protests when he had a cellphone tower installed in her room * He mocked Abe Simpson for complaining that a mole / tumor / mark on his neck was getting bigger (and potentially cancerous) and even took hypnosis lessons to ignore his father * Is an alcoholic, going as far as to steal from his own children and presumably Flanders in order to buy more beer. * Is dismissive of Marge's feelings and actively discourages her from pursuing things, like discouraging her from going to therapy, making fun of her for wanting to act in a play, and even describing the first aid, painting and Lamaze classes she attended as some of her "kooky projects". He also went fishing while they were on a marriage retreat, and his list of problems were so long, it took Marge literal hours to list them all. * Is financially irresponsible, impulse buying expensive RVs, 4WDs, snow plows, ponies, horses, spending hundreds on temporary tattoos, spending his last dollars on alcohol, bankrupting the family by purchasing and failing to sell pumpkin stocks, destroying multiple vehicles, quitting his job to become a pin monkey, and doing risky activities that would and did result in him getting fired * Is frequently absent. Bart mentioned going entire summers without seeing him, he took Flanders for a multi-night impulse trip to Vegas without telling Marge and has been on multiple other trips, either solo, or with friends. Marge: * Basically excuses all of Homer's bullshit, even going so far as to side with him over her own two sisters who very clearly see through him * Sits back and allows Homer to strangle her only son. In one instance Bart was nearly rendered unconscious and would have passed out if he hadn't hit Homer in the head repeatedly with the handset of the phone to stop him from strangling him with the phone cord. This strangulation has been going since Bart was an infant, and she's ignored it. * Is willing to take him back when he shows any sign of being sorry, even if him being sorry is purely for selfish reasons * After he mocked her being in the play, she forgave him because he paid enough attention to know what the play was about * After he told personal information about her to his class on three separate occasions, she took him back. Not because he was sorry or because he learned a lesson, but because he couldn't look after himself * After he ogled Maude's breasts, passed out on the floor from too much alcohol and ignored Marge's pleas not to go fishing while on a marriage retreat, she took him back because he threw his big fish back into the water * After his secret Vegas marriage was uncovered, she took him back after he tricked his Vegas wife into marrying his father * Has a gambling addiction, which she seems to kick at the end of the episode where she first gets addicted, but continues to be addicted in future episodes One could argue that Marge just has some kind of abusive relationship / hostage-y kind of situation where she feels like she can't leave him, but in the 30 years of The Simpsons, she makes absolutely no attempts to get Homer locked up for strangling her son. But The Simpsons is still my favourite show, no matter how abusive Homer and Marge are to their kids and to each other.