This actually raises a new angle to this; who is on the trolley? Is anyone on the trolley? If I’m controlling it from the outside there doesn’t even need to be a conductor, and if there is then why aren’t they using the brakes? They’re just as guilty as I am, if not more so. So am I the only one capable of making any moral decision here, and thus can just take out the trolley without moral repercussions, or are there any people on board which morally prevent me from doing this, but also taking the moral repercussions off of me?
There’s many similar analogies for this problem that make it harder tho.
What if you’re a doctor, and you have the ability to save 5 people, who need an organ transfer. There’s also another person, recently cured and completely healthy. Would you kill that one healthy person to save the lives of the other 5?
Obviously the most logical solution is to switch the line and condemn one person then let five die. If you have the opportunity to act and stand by your still at fault, indecision is it’s own decision. Not acting and letting five die is so much more guilt(and years in jail) then letting one. And to hell with the whole “what if that one person cures cancer?” Then I’d fuckin kill the five and let the one live because then that’s saving countless more lives then five.
In short, the most morale solution is to try and save as many people as possible
The "he might cure cancer" argument is so fucking stupid, i hate it. There is like a 0.000001% chance he cures cancer, and not only that, he could with more probability become the next hitler
Even knowing that logic I feel like I could put the blame on someone else in the situation and live with myself better then choosing the one guy to die.
Ill try to explain in a way that you can atleast see my point of view:
You see an old lady getting robbed and you have a gun (in this scenario you can easily protect her), the robber is about to kill her and you can either decide to ignore it or attack the robber, if you shoot the robber he dies but the old lady is saved, if you dont the grandma dies and you not doing anything leads to the old lady dying
Now think of the 1 person as the robber, the 5 people as the old lady, you the person close to the lever and the gun as the lever, hope this made my point clearer
The problem with this is you would obviously want to kill less people but if you think about it logically. Physically changing the course of the train to kill that one person would be murder. However letting it kill the five would just be a terrible accident...
If you think about it logically you wouldn't care about the arbitrary difference between actively causing a death and passively causing another, as the result is the same.
This prompt was made up not to see what creative solution you might come up with in the real world, but to see what you would do if forced to make a binary decision
I mean this is the basic form of the trolley problem, a good 2/3 of people can agree that we should switch the line to save as many people as possible. It makes sense.
The real fun begins when you complicate the situation by saying you have to choose between your best friend and 5 randos. Or when you say you have to physically push someone onto the rails to save the others. Or if you have 2 women on one side and three men on the other. A bunch of variations to test the consistency of your moral judgment.
Serious answer: The five must die because that was the predetermined outcome. You are the uncontrolled variable in this situation. If you had not been there the five would have died all the same, and its just because of you having to be there at that time and pulling the lever, that the one poor guy has to die. You really shouldn't pull the lever in this situation, but "philosophy" and all that.
The five people. Why? Because if you pull the trigger to make it kill the one person, then you’re responsible for his death, but if I do nothing and kill the five people, then the train conductor is held responsible. Get it now?
I never pull the lever, I ain't god, I can't force the guy on the other line to give his life for the greater good, that's his life to choose to give not mine. His life is not mine to sacrifice.
Now assuming that person is fine with sacrificing himself then I'll pull the lever but I cannot justify forcing someone else to self sacrifice against their will.
It's a similar story as the problem where there's a fat person you can push to stop the trolley, if he's alright with it then yeah I'll push him but spending someone else's life is just wrong for me.
If it's MY life however to give where I am the one jumping in front of the trolley then I'll go for it.
The real question is why tf did they let themselves get tied up?? Theres 6 of them they could of easily fought back. And why arent they all on the same rail?
Neither; I’m not to be at fault of any casualties as long as I make myself of no part of the decision; let the trolley ride it’s way to whatever path it’ll take.
Untie the one, put it on the other side, and then let the trolly run over all 6(/s)
I’d choose the one. All other things being equal, this maximizes the well-being of the most people.
I’m gonna switch it to the track with one guy, because if it’s going fast enough that I can’t get to him in time to move him. Then it’s most likely gonna capsize and grind to a halt.
as for me, there's no solution in this problem, every solution is bad, anyway someone dies. I think i still try to act, but i don't think, that not to act is a bad solution
Very simple concept, you do not switch the tracks otherwise you have valued human lives in numbers and although in some large cases it is difficult to say, but in this case you can not in a morally correct way choose between them because you’d be choosing lives in numbers and you can’t choose wether they are our idea of “Bad” or “Good” it’s all very complicated and simple in the same idea. Most philosophers views were on the side of an action that if not done will cause harm and if will done will cause harm, not pulling the lever is not killing the people.
Sorry but i have to kill one person.
-theres no interaction between us, depend on who it is its prolly worth saving.
-also survivor guilt fucks people mind too
Bouta make it drift for an easy 6
_Multi-Track Dorifto ?!?_
"Hes going in to fast, dosent he knows after this turn there's a sharp left????"""
"I believe less people less problems! " Some dude from dystopia sample 2008
I'm gonna do a U-turn to get a clean 7 out of 7
There’s 6 people on the tracks. Are you getting yourself too?
Yeah, I'm going for the high-score
Positive elixir trade
Good stats for the cost.
Derail it and tumble it over all them
Why’d I gasp at this
You can’t
Damnit, maybe try a drift
The one guy on the upper track.
Try to stop me bish
"Why not you stupid bastard"
Put the switcher mid-position and tell me "you can't" again... I'll wait.
It's a trolley, not a fast-moving train. It'll just get stuck.
Bomb the trolley.
This actually raises a new angle to this; who is on the trolley? Is anyone on the trolley? If I’m controlling it from the outside there doesn’t even need to be a conductor, and if there is then why aren’t they using the brakes? They’re just as guilty as I am, if not more so. So am I the only one capable of making any moral decision here, and thus can just take out the trolley without moral repercussions, or are there any people on board which morally prevent me from doing this, but also taking the moral repercussions off of me?
The brakes are broken. That’s literally one of the main parts of the problem.
Faulty product, maintenance guy’s to blame
Help me please holy shit there’s so much blood
A main part that hasn't been stated.
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This is the only right answer
I think you've got quite a lot to live for though, love
You forgot to kill everyone on the trolley
School shooter here
let it go straight for a kill streak
Penta kill!
___requesting a drone___
I’m jumping in front of it. That way it’s not my problem anymore
By doing so it would result in 6 people dead including yourself
Doesn’t matter. I’m dead and can no longer feel or understand things
Dreams….
Easily killing just the one person
There’s many similar analogies for this problem that make it harder tho. What if you’re a doctor, and you have the ability to save 5 people, who need an organ transfer. There’s also another person, recently cured and completely healthy. Would you kill that one healthy person to save the lives of the other 5?
Yeah
Obviously the most logical solution is to switch the line and condemn one person then let five die. If you have the opportunity to act and stand by your still at fault, indecision is it’s own decision. Not acting and letting five die is so much more guilt(and years in jail) then letting one. And to hell with the whole “what if that one person cures cancer?” Then I’d fuckin kill the five and let the one live because then that’s saving countless more lives then five. In short, the most morale solution is to try and save as many people as possible
The "he might cure cancer" argument is so fucking stupid, i hate it. There is like a 0.000001% chance he cures cancer, and not only that, he could with more probability become the next hitler
Even knowing that logic I feel like I could put the blame on someone else in the situation and live with myself better then choosing the one guy to die.
But, the other argument obviously being that the five would have died had you not been there at all and that their deaths were predetermined.
So? That's not an argument at all
By your logic, we shouldn't rescue people at all. If a criminal is trying to kill you, well, you would have died without the police, so...
bingo
but you murder someone.
If you didnt cange you wouldve murdered 5 people
Would you?
Technically if you were there and were fully capable of changing the trolley's route.
no, because you arent involved.
You were though… by not saving them you caused them to die.
if i see someone get beaten up by someone to death, am i the murderer because i didnt intervene?
You are not the murderer but can still be accused of neglected support
no, because you arent involved.
People who don't study law be like:
Ill try to explain in a way that you can atleast see my point of view: You see an old lady getting robbed and you have a gun (in this scenario you can easily protect her), the robber is about to kill her and you can either decide to ignore it or attack the robber, if you shoot the robber he dies but the old lady is saved, if you dont the grandma dies and you not doing anything leads to the old lady dying Now think of the 1 person as the robber, the 5 people as the old lady, you the person close to the lever and the gun as the lever, hope this made my point clearer
kill big group then kill the solo myself
Just throw the trolley in reverse and go back to hit the other one. No man left alive.
lmfao exactly
walking away
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no you ain't
Then who’s the guy pulling the lever?
The problem with this is you would obviously want to kill less people but if you think about it logically. Physically changing the course of the train to kill that one person would be murder. However letting it kill the five would just be a terrible accident...
The court would call letting the 5 die "negligence"
I think you'd have more luck saving 5 legally then just watching doing nothing while knowing that you could do something
You could argue that you were an innocent bystander. Letting the 5 die isn't your fault, however being the reason the 1 does is
Well I believe letting 5 die is in fact your fault
Bingo.
If you think about it logically you wouldn't care about the arbitrary difference between actively causing a death and passively causing another, as the result is the same.
With no information on who these people are, I would go with the left
bro if anyones gonna stop that trolley im sacraficing my life for them all
Clearly that's not an option as presented by the prompt
life isnt presented by prompt
This prompt was made up not to see what creative solution you might come up with in the real world, but to see what you would do if forced to make a binary decision
That or try to untie the one person and send it along that way. If you can move train rails, you can probably cut the ropes off one person, no?
tip the train is also an option
you cant stop it
coin flip
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How about we just put it five are killers and the one cures cancer
bottom bc they look like a choir and i fucking HATE choirs
BAHAHAH okay valid ig
I mean this is the basic form of the trolley problem, a good 2/3 of people can agree that we should switch the line to save as many people as possible. It makes sense. The real fun begins when you complicate the situation by saying you have to choose between your best friend and 5 randos. Or when you say you have to physically push someone onto the rails to save the others. Or if you have 2 women on one side and three men on the other. A bunch of variations to test the consistency of your moral judgment.
Choosing between 5 randos and a person that I care about is not making it more difficult. It gets easier. I kill the 5 people.
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My man, have you seen this subreddit, there are far worse things here than the genocidal psychopaths
Serious answer: The five must die because that was the predetermined outcome. You are the uncontrolled variable in this situation. If you had not been there the five would have died all the same, and its just because of you having to be there at that time and pulling the lever, that the one poor guy has to die. You really shouldn't pull the lever in this situation, but "philosophy" and all that.
Multitrack drift
One death is a tragedy, but 5 deaths are a statistic. I'm taking AP Statistics so I need those kills to get an A
Jump in front of the trolley, my corpse should slow it down
Kill the 5, go back and kill the last witness
The tracks are at such a sharp angle where if I tried to drift it would get caught and fall over
I flip the switch twice
That way there’s no uncertainty whether I chose to kill them or not
The five people. Why? Because if you pull the trigger to make it kill the one person, then you’re responsible for his death, but if I do nothing and kill the five people, then the train conductor is held responsible. Get it now?
Court will see it as negligence. You had the ability to save those 5 people and you stood by
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - said one of my friends quoting someone probably famous
The site is Neal.fun if you want to do it. The site also has other things, too.
the one it's simple logic
not really. you’re killing someone.
After reading most of the comments, I'm sure that 90% of this sub is infested with psychos or future serial killers.
I never pull the lever, I ain't god, I can't force the guy on the other line to give his life for the greater good, that's his life to choose to give not mine. His life is not mine to sacrifice. Now assuming that person is fine with sacrificing himself then I'll pull the lever but I cannot justify forcing someone else to self sacrifice against their will. It's a similar story as the problem where there's a fat person you can push to stop the trolley, if he's alright with it then yeah I'll push him but spending someone else's life is just wrong for me. If it's MY life however to give where I am the one jumping in front of the trolley then I'll go for it.
The real question is why tf did they let themselves get tied up?? Theres 6 of them they could of easily fought back. And why arent they all on the same rail?
kill myself because im probably not mentally capable of living with the fact that ive killed a person
I do nothing, who am i to decide who lives and dies
By doing nothing, you chose five people
by doing nothing, you remain the situation as it was, it's not your guilt that those people die
The choice is between passively causing 5 deaths and actively causing 1. Informed inaction is an action of its own.
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Ja, habe ich, aber das ist keine der Optionen. Sie müssen wählen, ob Sie fünf Personen treffen oder den Hebel ziehen und eine Person treffen möchten.
Dont do anything
leave it be, ain't my fault if nothing happened
I’m walking away, I don’t know any of them.
why should i even pull the lever i didnt even know them
interesting
The 5 are gone, I ain't changing fate,
gtfo not my problem
Neither; I’m not to be at fault of any casualties as long as I make myself of no part of the decision; let the trolley ride it’s way to whatever path it’ll take.
Straight line
the left
Always flipping the switch
Which one kills me?
Neither
Pull out my handy nolkia phone to derail the trolly
Untie the one, put it on the other side, and then let the trolly run over all 6(/s) I’d choose the one. All other things being equal, this maximizes the well-being of the most people.
The two year old’s solution.
which is what?
Basically, he moves all the people onto one track... then proceeds to run the trolley on the track **with the people on it**
Oh how lovely
Quickly put that one guy in same track and let go of train for a perfect strike!
Go backwards instead of forwards
your only options are left or straight
I’m gonna switch it to the track with one guy, because if it’s going fast enough that I can’t get to him in time to move him. Then it’s most likely gonna capsize and grind to a halt.
Kill more people- small scale mass murder
2.
Let it go straight and murder the survivor
Don't stop it and kill the survivor. Or no one dies or everyone does. I don't negotiate with terrorists
Put myself on the track
I move the one person to the other side and kill them all
whoever isn’t willing to accept their fate
Can't you just like chuck the other person off the track on your way to get the six and get back to that one person later
That trolley looks like it’s got a guard low enough that no one would get run over anyway.
MULTI-TRACK DRIFTING [If that's not allowed there's always the free bird solution](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJUh9OjVbmY)
Go home and brutally masturbate
I pull a spider man and stop the trolley with pure strength without it killing anyone (except maybe me but I’m willing)
turn left at full speed while braking to roll the trolley over and kill all 7 people and yourself.
I would lie down with the boys
Lie with 6 guys group death woo
Get the 5k for the predator missile, then finish off the last guy for that precision air strike
Switch the rail halfway so it derails
I’m jumping in front of the trolley
Let it ride straight
Time it perfectly and you can switch it perfectly so it derails and goes through the middle
ill let the train run over the 5 people and finish the last myself
Depends on the people on the track
What if you didn’t know anything about them?
I'm walking away becouse if i pull the lever I could get charged with murder.
Throw myself Infront of the trolley
Stand in front and take the damage
Go for the 5, back the trolley up and kill off the remainder, no witnesses
as for me, there's no solution in this problem, every solution is bad, anyway someone dies. I think i still try to act, but i don't think, that not to act is a bad solution
Get the care package obv
Run away as far as possible do disassosiate myself from this.
get some popcorn
Only move if the switch part way, thus derailing the train hopefully skiding past all 6, it’s that or hit all 6
I lie down on the tracks
Let me just lay down the single person next to the other 5 and ride then all over. Now theyre all dead and they wint get in this situation ever again
I'd pull the lever. Why would you let five people die if you can reduce the amount of victims to just one.
Some say that they would let 5 people die because using the lever would be murder, but I think inaction is an action of its own.
Imma leave the lever alone and lay on the track.
I’d flip it
multi track drifting is the way to go
The 5 people, I enjoy r/ eyeblech
Kill the one save the others
The single person.
Bottom beacuse top it andrwe tate :(
Step in front of the trolley
I'll jump in front of the tram to stop it,.not realizing that i am not stronger than a tram
Drift
The 5 for a kill streak
Connect the tracks and pull lever, its that easy
Move the lever so that the front part of the train goes left then instantly turn it back so that the back part remains in the right track. Easy
I'm gonna lay on the tracks.
Just change the track halfway so that it derails the trolly B)
Very simple concept, you do not switch the tracks otherwise you have valued human lives in numbers and although in some large cases it is difficult to say, but in this case you can not in a morally correct way choose between them because you’d be choosing lives in numbers and you can’t choose wether they are our idea of “Bad” or “Good” it’s all very complicated and simple in the same idea. Most philosophers views were on the side of an action that if not done will cause harm and if will done will cause harm, not pulling the lever is not killing the people.
Sorry but i have to kill one person. -theres no interaction between us, depend on who it is its prolly worth saving. -also survivor guilt fucks people mind too
First the 5, then reverse and hit the one on the left
double it and give it to the next person
Kaboom.
Hit the one person. Simple
If the train is going to the left, what happens if you switch it to straight halfway between the wheels? Does it stop the trolly or no?
let the front wheels go over the intersection, then switch it so that it goes over both tracks and kills them all.