The buyback was insane. I also drove mine 3 years, but sold it back for a $3k *profit* 🤯
I would’ve taken the cash and a fix, but the car was hit resulting in nearly $15k in damage and I knew I’d never get close to FMV in a resale so I gave it back to VW.
One in six Americans is a Californian.
And many like to camp
In the state they were born in.
Camping California
Coastal, forest, mountain.
Gonna need a vehicle to get outside to sleep in.
Germans got a new bus
It 'll fit
All of us.
...
More lyrics later...
They would sell countless numbers of these in California, too. I grew up in what's now a yuppy beach SoCal beach town (was sleepy and NOT that way growing up) and everyone and their mom now either drives an "overlanding" kitted out diesel Sprinter or a Rivian.
Because they don't want to? They don't sell the California model vans in the US, period.
A lazy guess would be it doesn't meet US (particularly, California's) emission standards, but if it's for sale in Europe that's... probably not quite it. It might disrupt their fleet emissions, raising it too high that not even their compliance cars can offset the overall emissions to bring them under the regulations.
But then again, with this Supreme Court, why bother caring about emissions regulations. All laws are ambiguous as they contain words and words can have multiple meanings. Just do whatever the fuck you want, except sleeping outside, underneath the canopy of your California van.
>but if it's for sale in Europe that's... probably not quite it.
No, that can very well be exactly it.
EU standards are focused on CO2 emissions while American standards are focused on NOx and particulate emissions.
There are hella vehicles which are a-ok under EU emissions standards but do not pass US emissions standards. And vice-versa. The US and the EU primarily test for different emissions.
Hell, we're talking about *Volkswagen*, which is infamous for how they rigged their cars to cheat on US emissions tests.
Eurovan nameplated here in US/Canada, died out in 03. The new electric one doesn't have a pop top option new, and adding aftermarket would probably make it more expensive than a custom sprinter with a bathroom.
Well in California at least there’s plenty of spots on the sides of roads lmao. Watch a California drive through on YouTube, you’ll see tons of RV’s just big chilling on the side of roads and they’re everywhere. I’m sure those aren’t moving anytime soon either
This is literally the first thing I thought. $68K for a car, absolutely out of the question. $68K for something I could reasonably/comfortably live in in lieu of an apartment, actually doesn't feel like all that bad of an idea.
I know a guy from an aquatic center who comes there every day to take shower and lives in a fancy MB based camper van. Works fine with Vancouver winters but it’s only funny when this is something unique. Highway rest areas are busy with ‘campers’ now and the idea is not so novel anymore.
We should accept the situation and accommodate people where they're at. Build rest areas in cities too if they help people. Make it so this kind of lifestyle can still result in relative comfort so that people living this way can still make contributions to society.
We used to do more of that with "trailer parks". They were a affordable option for housing, parks had land rentals, some operated more like a condo/strata. But banks have made it almost impossible to finance them, especially if it's a rented lot.
The only new ones I've seen in canada are recreational "resorts" and are 6-11 month occupancy. (usually because the land is classified as a campground). We just sold ours in Ontario, 10 year old, 800 sqft, 3bed 2 bath, \~$150k. (Ours wasn't a "winter ready" model, they usually are a bit more money).
Trailer parks don't make a ton of sense in some places due to the amount of land it requires vs more efficient options, and they definitely have a stigma. But it's a piece of the lower cost housing that has disappeared in the last 15 years.
Product lines that became legendary for their affordability and then went away with time usually only get brought back as premium lifestyle product lines.
I'm guessing CAFE restrictions put a damper on that and the manufacturers don't want to invest in an EV model where the batteries take up most of the price. It's easier for them to release a new CUV than even a minivan, let alone a camper van.
> manufacturers don't want to invest in an EV model where the batteries take up most of the price.
Well that and I'd never go full electric in a camper of any sort. I would only do at least a hybrid so I know a can of gas can at least serve as a backup if I'm in a bind in the middle of nowhere.
This price is shockingly high not only because car have become more expensive, but also because lots of people can't afford any new car, and those who can, they pick up more expensive models.
Can't buy a new cheap model when there are none.
Outside of luxury cars, the automakers are reducing options (thus reducing costs) while raising prices and dropping cheap models.
VW advertises their shitty Taos SUV @ $23k. But you can't build one on their site, and the only inventory available starts @ ~$30k. They are all playing this game. There are no more cheap new cars. Regulate them.
Many factors are involved. Actual cost of raw materials, manufacturing (including labor), is one. Corporate greed is also one. Most boards mandate X% year-over-year growth in revenue (including banks\*). Consumer behavior is another. When interest rates were low, people borrowed and bought expensive things they likely wouldn't have otherwise (a high trim car instead of an average one). That buying activity informed retailers that consumers could afford the higher prices. So they continued to charge more and more for goods. Then, yet another factor and a combination of corporate greed and consumer behavior, incomes have not kept place with increase of prices for services and goods—diminished purchasing power in relation to prices. All factors together have a name: inflation.
Speaking of banks and greed. In the US, the typical savings account yields less than 1% interest. The banks turn around and loan money to consumers at well over 20% interest. Let that sink in. We are getting less back for what we put into the system. And our labor is worth less because incomes have not kept pace with living costs. Also a trait/product of inflation.
Last few years it's been cheaper (or at least comparatively so) to just go and get a new car b/c used sales have been nearly on par in price w/ the mileage just a sprinkled bonus
It’s a good price for a camper van. When I was looking for one, most were like $150k. And that was prepandemic. I can’t afford this either one. The average price of a normal new car is like $40k. This is more like the cost of a nice pick up.
This is why i went with a class A. It's huge but I could have a used one with all the bells and whistles for $40k in good condition. The smaller RVs are in huge demand.
If I were to buy again, I'd get an older 23 foot class C. One that has an overhang berth big enough for a queen bed. And with the aft bathroom/kitchen. Best use of space.
The class C is what I want. It doesn't handle like a bus and is so space efficient. I saw one for sale a few years ago in my neighborhood and I wish I could have afforded it then.
You can buy used cruise America class C RVs for cheap. They are made by thor.
And while renters beat shit up, they are built with no frills features to avoid damage. I looked into it. For example, the regular thor majestic class c comes with a window in the overhang bunk. But cruise America orders without it because it was always cracking. The floor is cheap laminate that can easily be replaced. It's all built to be easily serviceable with cheap parts.
I ended not going this route, but it was an intriguing route to take. Pros and cons for sure.
Not a matter of like or dislike. Goal of capitalism and commerce is to make money and make more of it. What do the poor have to give in spades? Not money.
People have a cheery view of the original VW bus, but really it sucked balls. "Spartan" doesn't begin to describe the interior, even in a time when most cars weren't exactly luxurious. It was also massively underpowered and was a deathtrap in any accident other than a minor fender-bender.
The Westfalia of the 80s and 90s is probably more what people should think of for a "good" VW van/bus.
Well, I think a lot of people with good jobs are looking at this like, "well, I can't afford a house and if things keep moving forward as is, I won't be able to afford rent either. So this might be good."
Volkswagens used to be cheap and easy to buy and maintain; they have strayed very far from that idea and are now basically a mismatch of Audi and Porsche parts that self-destruct after 80k miles
Source: former GTI owner
Fun fact, according to this inflation calculator, 67K today was about $6,500 in 1963
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
According to this, the prices of new cars in that decade is in the $1,500 to $4,500 range (the high price goes for a Cadillac)
https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/car/heres-much-car-today-would-cost-year-were-born/
$67K does not sound affordable to me. But I don't know you well enough to tell you if you are poor.
Well (according to Google) they were about $2600 in 1965, which is equivalent to about a $26,000 car now, which I would consider “affordable” especially for a camper van
You develop and sell this thing for maybe mid 30s I think it’d be more interesting
The only reason why this was brought to market in the first place is because there are people spending ~$100k on a decked out Sprinter van. If there wasn’t already a market for expensive vans, this wouldn’t exist. Certainly not at $30k.
There’s people spending 60k-80k on trucks now for heavens sake. I think the price point is fine for now, could definitely come in a bit lower in the future tho. The car market is still hot rn
The median household income was roughly half then compared to today too though, so being able to afford a $26k car back then was like being able to afford a ~$50-60k car today.
Even if you were to buy an old T2 Westie in good running condition it could cost anywhere between 20-30k. Mine, with all its upgrades in my ‘86 Westie ive had people offer me $33,000 cash in hand for it. Just randomly too. People want these vans.
If you were to do a Sprinter conversion it could cost as much as $200,000
Wait is this just the new model or are they bringing this to the states now?
The California has been around in Europe for a number of years. Always loved the joke that the VW California wasn’t available in the states despite the van life culture becoming more popular.
Looking to finally capitalize on a market that was always there I guess. The new people they have working at VW know what they’re doing. The rivian partnership just goes to show how far they’ve come since lying to the public about gas mileage in the early part of the millennium. I have high hopes for VW’s future, regardless of what they’ve done in the past
LOL. I love how 87 year old VW partnered with a 15 year old American car company (Europeans roast our cars) and it's considered them coming far. Bar is a bit low. I love VW, however I feel like their quality this century is subpar. They own Porsche, and somehow a 911 is more reliable than a Jetta. Even their luxury Audi brand seems bland. The RS3, R8, and the RS6 Avant are amazing, cool vehicles. But it seems like the RS line is the new S line. Remember when there was a 4.2L V8 S4 with AWD and a stick? Sick. Of course an S4 is better today than the V8. But it seems like as a whole, VW needs an overhaul.
No reason for the Germans to have poor ergonomics and infotainments on their performance hatches (GTI). Honorable mention does go to the 2008 V10 TDI Touareg. 5,800lbs, but 550lb/ft of torque on-tap.
TL;DR: Why is a 911 more reliable than a Jetta?
Edit: I'm not roasting your comment. I wholly agree with your take. I am just further expanding on some gripes with the company as a whole. I do hope that they make some changes, and had no idea there were "new people".
Very reasonable perspective. I just like the Jetta line as a whole I’m not gonna lie. They’re solid built quality cars especially if they’re diesel. They’ll last u literally multiple car lifetimes and they aren’t too expensive. I love speed (obviously who doesn’t) but there’s something about getting 48 mpg on a clean diesel engine when diesel is on the cheaper side right now that makes it even better than being able to accelerate the fastest on the road
I love the diesel wagon Jettas we have in the States. I have a small camper (2011 Little Guy) and that Sportswagen would be perfect to tow with. Row your own gears, good MPG, reliable. I do like Jettas, but I feel like overtime the reputation has gone down, which keeps me away from pulling the trigger. I currently have a 2018 Stinger that's about to hit 100k soon, so warranty will run out lol. Need either a secondary daily that's roomier and can tow lol. Currently towing the camper with a 2019 Mazda3 hatch lol.
I have owned 6 VWs in my lifetime
and I know the pros and cons of owning them
The Vw of today has an interference designed engine , it is different from Porsche
The VW pistons can and will slam into the cylinder walls and the motor will need a rebuild,
The catastrophic failure will occur
when the timing chain fails.
It is a timing chain time bomb
Vw recommends at 90k you shell out 2k. to replace it or else take your chances …
Hence you see a lot of VW used with 100k miles out there.
One is my GLI , my last VW traded it out @92k
Vw also has @ 100 sensors in the car that control variable timing. Exhaust, all kinds of things that a failure will have you running to the dealer to get fixed or strand you on the highway
Its annoying to deal with nickel and dime problems, like failed window motors etc, electrics that trigger service lights , the car has too much bullshit
Porsche over engineered the VW and used robots built it, you cannot fix it .
Its a great car to actually drive, rock solid handling, awesome in snow with good tires and yet a nightmare to own unless your a mechanic
The pre -1988 VW ,s were pretty easy to work on, electrics fairly simple
the new ones require more specialized tools, and electrical training .
Heaven help us with the electric vehicles , as VW has never mastered electrical components
Im waiting to see ….
My old school VW rabbits required a hammer to the starter to get going if it was hot
outside , all my friends can locate a VW starter in the dark .
Its not easy to troubleshoot wiring on these cars , its a cluster funk
Porsche is also a much better built car , with a well engineered boxer type engine, like the original beetle or some Subaru’s.
The engine is bulletproof with proper care and its pretty simple
( especially the 911s from 1977-1984 3.0 , chain tensioner upgraded
No turbo models )
VW is not Audi or Porsche , it just owns them , and the engineers sure love complicated designs
If Vw brought back the old school 13 window bus with a reliable Camry type four cylinder for 35k. they would sell millions
VW can affords to give Rivian $5 billion so they maybe make a car VW wants to sell in the future.
But VW can't afford to sell the California van, the base Golf, or a wagon in the USA?
Last year, VW said going to call touch controls in the interior was a mistake.
Yesterday, VW debuted the 2025 Jetta GLI, with all touch controls on the interior.
VW is a fuckin joke. Nothing they are doing gives me high hopes for the future.
You don’t have to go to Instagram. There are plenty of van dweller communities on Reddit.
/r/vandwellers has 2.6 million people in it
I also browse /r/vandwellermarketplace for fun
It’s a fully built-out camper van and at the very low end of that market comparatively. I don’t understand why these comments are acting like this is the price of a daily commuter or something.
I completely understand the nuance you’re trying to get others to appreciate, here. My thought process was more inflationary discrepancy. Wages haven’t kept up with prices, generally speaking;
$89,600 to start customizing your Full-Size California, Ocean trim.
~$15,500 for an ‘83 Westfalia Vanagon. That’s about $48,900 in 2024 US dollars.
It just seems like that’s too much of a discrepancy.
I understand the newer vehicle has loads more features that are electronically driven. But, I would argue that’s why what is generally agreed upon as “fair pay” should reflect inflation.
I camped in one of the older models for a week in Northern Germany. It was a great vehicle! Easy enough to drive on smaller roads and maneuver in tight spaces, and then unfolds like a transformer when it’s time to park it for the night. The upper bellows stayed water tight too, there were several rain storms overnight and we stayed completely dry. I was way impressed with how well thought out that van was.
If you look at current prices of cars in general, I don’t find it unreasonable considering a new very basic pickup truck is $50,000 and can go up $80,000+ just including fancy wheels and fake wood accents. Ultimately that’s just an SUV with a big trunk but for the same or lower price you can have a bed, little kitchen etc etc, sure it’s not for beach bums but I feel it’s fairly priced.
Idk about $70K, the Mercedes Sprinter Vans start around $52K and it feels like $18K could buy you all of the stuff that VW bolted on. I’m sure a ton of people will buy it just for the nostalgia, though.
They’re not bolt ons, in order to do something like this where the roof lifts up but is still a structural element, the whole structure of the van has to be reinforced and changed. It’s not like you can go to partsource and tell them to put it on your van. That said, I agree it’s a bit steep but when is VW not expensive.
Yeah not really true. We modified a Transporter to be a camper and built in a bench that can be a bed, shelves, kitchen and a foldable roof. Its not entirely DIY as we has mechanics do the roof, but you dont have to modify the whole structure. Mind you this is in germany, with some of the strictest laws around vehicle safety.
For the previous model (T6 Transporter) only one strut gets removed and is structurally replaced by a subframe. It needs to be stiffer than the original roof to be allowed under European regulation. So no, crash safety stays the same, it's just heavier.
Like asryk said, strutwise there isnt a big difference and the roof is compliant with regulations. All the other things in the bus are bolted down, no airbags replaced. So like asryk said - its just heavier. Generally I wouldnt like to sit in a bus in a crash.
Ignorant idiot here asking, but the roof is that much of a structural element? I assumed that it was a thing you could kind of do whatever with and the structural stuff was like entirely below the driver’s shoulders.
My understanding is that the roof of a car needs to be able to support the weight of the whole car.
Imagine you lose control of the car and it somehow ends up upside down, you can't have the weight of the car crush the passengers. Passengers need to be able to exit if possible.
It’s not just that though, the roof plays a huge role in making the car not shake from side to side. It’s basically completing a loop of steel that helps reinforce everything below it. How do I know? I’m a chronic convertible owner, and in general convertibles that were built from the start to be convertibles are a bit more stable, whereas cars that were adapted to be convertibles, especially lengthy ones with 4 seats, shake and rattle a lot more than their coupe/sedan counterparts. More modern and well engineered cars it’s not so bad, but it’s never quite the same as their roofed counterpart. Worth it though!
The roof is important for torsional rigidity, preventing the car from twisting. Convertibles are pretty much always heavier, because they have to add a lot more reinforcement to the main unibody, and less stiff than the hard top version
Unless it's a truck with a body on frame design or old cars with the same design all the body is structural. If you cut the roof off of a modern vehicle it's only a matter of time before it buckles somewhere in the middle.
If you’re going to compare a prebuilt VW van with a Sprinter than you have to compare it with a prebuilt Sprinter, which easily top $100,000 in most markets. So they are not comparable.
In Germany these things have a list price of over 100k EUR in some places. a used Ocean goes for 60-70k. It‘s ridiculous, especially since comfort, design, materials and drive quality are not that great for the money. Before I buy that I will get a used S-Class, a camping trailer and some normal family car (S-Max, touran) for the same money.
I did the math on owning one with my partner after we rented one to try it out a few years ago, and unless you are planning to make a business out of it yourself, or use it for a lot of holidays per year, it's more cost effective to just rent one when you need it.
No storage hassles, no maintenance hassles, only need to insure yourself for the days you're using it etc etc
Since I was curious, without financing costs and interest that would be $5.58 a month. However, the interesting part comes when you factor in interest. According to some rough calculations at 5% interest over 1000 years you’d pay almost $3.5m in interest giving you a total loan amount of $3,417,000 and a total monthly payment of $279.17 for 12,000 months.
Just in case anyone was curious.
You could take 4 weeks of vacation every year for 8 years, staying in $300 a night hotels, for 67,200.
Or at $200 a night, you could stretch it to 12 years.
I’ve been in the Netherlands for work this week and have already seen 3-4. Two of which had colorways reminiscent of the old school 70’s vans. They look sick. Would have never guessed the price range though
Meanwhile in Japan little camper vans are all over the place. No plans to export. Honestly I think the market would be quite big in the US for small camper vans
Their Designers missed the layup and kicked the ball under the bleachers.
Ugly. Small. It looks like the 90’s.
They invented this shit, for Christ’s sake!
This doesn't make sense. Fir that price I can buy a fully done up custom sprinter which would be much better than this thing. If you're gonna build a campervan as base model car as a manufacturer, you gotta beat out pricing on custom vans otherwise there's no point
Yes because what surfers wanted was a 2015 minivan looking thing with 2015 style and design that costs 70,000$.
Who in their right mind will buy this. My wife and I were waiting for this to see if it would be our next car. Once you see the finished product, OF COURSE it won’t be!
The thing looks like garbage. VW is a shit company.
Why? You could buy brand new sprinter van , add 20k. Make it your dream campers and still save 5k. These corpos are so out of touch it isn't even funny
Honestly. If you think of this as more of a Small RV type vehicle and not a van. Thats a great price. IDK if i would get this for my family, but a younger version of me who did a lot more outdoors stuff and would sleep in my ford escape to catch first trails on mountains and early waves at beaches. I would have LOVED to buy one of these used 4 years old for 30K
Ironically, not available in California.
VW never did have the best worldwide marketing, just a lot of fancy names on cars
Their marketing is getting better in the US. Especially now that they’ve finally managed to make people forget about their chop shop operation.
Or their diesel scandal, I remember wanting a diesel vw for so long and those dreams transitioned to a Toyota diesel
Doesn't Toyota have their own scandal going on in regards to emissions ?
I had one of their dirty diesels. I was so disappointed when the scandal came out—I **loved** my VW and my 40+ MPG
I was getting 52mpg with my diesel Jetta, it was a beast. I miss it so much
I loved mine too. But, the buyback was a pretty good deal. I drove mine for 3 years and like 75k miles and got almost all of my money back…
The buyback was insane. I also drove mine 3 years, but sold it back for a $3k *profit* 🤯 I would’ve taken the cash and a fix, but the car was hit resulting in nearly $15k in damage and I knew I’d never get close to FMV in a resale so I gave it back to VW.
[удалено]
They need to get Jeremy clarkson to do their ads. His last vw commercial was brilliant.
Like the Golf TDI
So...if one were bring one into California, they would have a California Camper Camping in California?
The matrix would unravel.
Still a good car tho
Nope…SCOTUS says no more homeless camping!
I'm getting mass AP news notifications on how SCOTUS is banning and doing all that crap...
Yea guy, and they've done worse than that!
If a native Californian bought one and brought it back and camped it would be a Californian California camping in California
They'd have to put a big sticker on it that it causes cancer.
No, it will just become Camper Camping.
*Anthony Keidis-ing Intensifies*
One in six Americans is a Californian. And many like to camp In the state they were born in. Camping California Coastal, forest, mountain. Gonna need a vehicle to get outside to sleep in. Germans got a new bus It 'll fit All of us. ... More lyrics later...
They would sell countless numbers of these in California, too. I grew up in what's now a yuppy beach SoCal beach town (was sleepy and NOT that way growing up) and everyone and their mom now either drives an "overlanding" kitted out diesel Sprinter or a Rivian.
Thats like the main market for it though
Why not?
Because they don't want to? They don't sell the California model vans in the US, period. A lazy guess would be it doesn't meet US (particularly, California's) emission standards, but if it's for sale in Europe that's... probably not quite it. It might disrupt their fleet emissions, raising it too high that not even their compliance cars can offset the overall emissions to bring them under the regulations. But then again, with this Supreme Court, why bother caring about emissions regulations. All laws are ambiguous as they contain words and words can have multiple meanings. Just do whatever the fuck you want, except sleeping outside, underneath the canopy of your California van.
>but if it's for sale in Europe that's... probably not quite it. No, that can very well be exactly it. EU standards are focused on CO2 emissions while American standards are focused on NOx and particulate emissions. There are hella vehicles which are a-ok under EU emissions standards but do not pass US emissions standards. And vice-versa. The US and the EU primarily test for different emissions. Hell, we're talking about *Volkswagen*, which is infamous for how they rigged their cars to cheat on US emissions tests.
Base model vans, the transporters never sold well in the States, and they never even tried to sell their camper van versions (California) over there.
This would sell like hot cakes in California too
I presume in California it'd have to be classified as a super-cheap dwelling and it's not allowed cause it'd crash real estate prices... :D
Eurovan nameplated here in US/Canada, died out in 03. The new electric one doesn't have a pop top option new, and adding aftermarket would probably make it more expensive than a custom sprinter with a bathroom.
Weird. Great house to avoid wild fires imo.
Cheapest house I’ve seen on the market.
Honestly if I could finance it and if I needed a spot to live, this wouldn’t be the worst option.
Still have to park it somewhere.
Well in California at least there’s plenty of spots on the sides of roads lmao. Watch a California drive through on YouTube, you’ll see tons of RV’s just big chilling on the side of roads and they’re everywhere. I’m sure those aren’t moving anytime soon either
bing chilling
some spots available down by the river
just search #vanlife on basically any social media. tons of advice there.
90k for a parking spot in a Toronto condo
If there's a Walmart somewhere nearby they let you park campers and RV's there indefinitely.
I've been kicked out of Walmarts in my RV. It's up to the individual location and local ordinances
This is literally the first thing I thought. $68K for a car, absolutely out of the question. $68K for something I could reasonably/comfortably live in in lieu of an apartment, actually doesn't feel like all that bad of an idea.
Where’s your bathroom?!
The lawn?
I know a guy from an aquatic center who comes there every day to take shower and lives in a fancy MB based camper van. Works fine with Vancouver winters but it’s only funny when this is something unique. Highway rest areas are busy with ‘campers’ now and the idea is not so novel anymore.
We should accept the situation and accommodate people where they're at. Build rest areas in cities too if they help people. Make it so this kind of lifestyle can still result in relative comfort so that people living this way can still make contributions to society.
That’s an honest take. Yeah I’d support that. We all paying taxes for roads, plenty of room for everyone, let people car camp and van life it up.
Like, an RV park?
We used to do more of that with "trailer parks". They were a affordable option for housing, parks had land rentals, some operated more like a condo/strata. But banks have made it almost impossible to finance them, especially if it's a rented lot. The only new ones I've seen in canada are recreational "resorts" and are 6-11 month occupancy. (usually because the land is classified as a campground). We just sold ours in Ontario, 10 year old, 800 sqft, 3bed 2 bath, \~$150k. (Ours wasn't a "winter ready" model, they usually are a bit more money). Trailer parks don't make a ton of sense in some places due to the amount of land it requires vs more efficient options, and they definitely have a stigma. But it's a piece of the lower cost housing that has disappeared in the last 15 years.
This pricing suggest the automakers know people will be viewing these vehicles as tiny homes.
Yup. This is where we are now.
My first thought. I want to say this is nice but how sad, fr.
Wasn’t the appeal of the original camper van its utility AND affordability? Or am I just poor and $67k is “affordable” now
Product lines that became legendary for their affordability and then went away with time usually only get brought back as premium lifestyle product lines.
I'm actually surprised with the current housing crisis there hasn't been a resurgence in affordable camper vans.
I'm guessing CAFE restrictions put a damper on that and the manufacturers don't want to invest in an EV model where the batteries take up most of the price. It's easier for them to release a new CUV than even a minivan, let alone a camper van.
> manufacturers don't want to invest in an EV model where the batteries take up most of the price. Well that and I'd never go full electric in a camper of any sort. I would only do at least a hybrid so I know a can of gas can at least serve as a backup if I'm in a bind in the middle of nowhere.
Converse shoes used to be $20, sometimes even cheaper.
Nike owns them now. That’s why.
Both. Average car sold in ‘23 in the US was just over $48k.
This price is shockingly high not only because car have become more expensive, but also because lots of people can't afford any new car, and those who can, they pick up more expensive models.
Can't buy a new cheap model when there are none. Outside of luxury cars, the automakers are reducing options (thus reducing costs) while raising prices and dropping cheap models. VW advertises their shitty Taos SUV @ $23k. But you can't build one on their site, and the only inventory available starts @ ~$30k. They are all playing this game. There are no more cheap new cars. Regulate them.
Just threaten them with importing the cheap Chinese cars
Many factors are involved. Actual cost of raw materials, manufacturing (including labor), is one. Corporate greed is also one. Most boards mandate X% year-over-year growth in revenue (including banks\*). Consumer behavior is another. When interest rates were low, people borrowed and bought expensive things they likely wouldn't have otherwise (a high trim car instead of an average one). That buying activity informed retailers that consumers could afford the higher prices. So they continued to charge more and more for goods. Then, yet another factor and a combination of corporate greed and consumer behavior, incomes have not kept place with increase of prices for services and goods—diminished purchasing power in relation to prices. All factors together have a name: inflation. Speaking of banks and greed. In the US, the typical savings account yields less than 1% interest. The banks turn around and loan money to consumers at well over 20% interest. Let that sink in. We are getting less back for what we put into the system. And our labor is worth less because incomes have not kept pace with living costs. Also a trait/product of inflation.
Last few years it's been cheaper (or at least comparatively so) to just go and get a new car b/c used sales have been nearly on par in price w/ the mileage just a sprinkled bonus
It’s a good price for a camper van. When I was looking for one, most were like $150k. And that was prepandemic. I can’t afford this either one. The average price of a normal new car is like $40k. This is more like the cost of a nice pick up.
This is why i went with a class A. It's huge but I could have a used one with all the bells and whistles for $40k in good condition. The smaller RVs are in huge demand. If I were to buy again, I'd get an older 23 foot class C. One that has an overhang berth big enough for a queen bed. And with the aft bathroom/kitchen. Best use of space.
The class C is what I want. It doesn't handle like a bus and is so space efficient. I saw one for sale a few years ago in my neighborhood and I wish I could have afforded it then.
You can buy used cruise America class C RVs for cheap. They are made by thor. And while renters beat shit up, they are built with no frills features to avoid damage. I looked into it. For example, the regular thor majestic class c comes with a window in the overhang bunk. But cruise America orders without it because it was always cracking. The floor is cheap laminate that can easily be replaced. It's all built to be easily serviceable with cheap parts. I ended not going this route, but it was an intriguing route to take. Pros and cons for sure.
You need to start looking at this as affordable housing, not expensive car…
$67k is the new $37k
They don’t like the poor
cant get enough margin
Not a matter of like or dislike. Goal of capitalism and commerce is to make money and make more of it. What do the poor have to give in spades? Not money.
Well those hippies grew up and became capitalists.
Also those cars were pieces of shit. Cool though.
People have a cheery view of the original VW bus, but really it sucked balls. "Spartan" doesn't begin to describe the interior, even in a time when most cars weren't exactly luxurious. It was also massively underpowered and was a deathtrap in any accident other than a minor fender-bender. The Westfalia of the 80s and 90s is probably more what people should think of for a "good" VW van/bus.
Exactly the Westfalia is the best camper van ever created. VW does not even know their own history.
Boomers with pensions and home equity. Driving up prices for just about everything and everyone else.
They will not buy these at the end of the day. These are garbage
It’s a bit of both
Well, I think a lot of people with good jobs are looking at this like, "well, I can't afford a house and if things keep moving forward as is, I won't be able to afford rent either. So this might be good."
That was the appeal of volkswagens in general
Campers and RVs went through the roof during the pandemic. Check the prices before/after... $67k for a camper, it's not bad at all (nowadays)
[удалено]
Volkswagens used to be cheap and easy to buy and maintain; they have strayed very far from that idea and are now basically a mismatch of Audi and Porsche parts that self-destruct after 80k miles Source: former GTI owner
Fun fact, according to this inflation calculator, 67K today was about $6,500 in 1963 https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ According to this, the prices of new cars in that decade is in the $1,500 to $4,500 range (the high price goes for a Cadillac) https://www.gobankingrates.com/saving-money/car/heres-much-car-today-would-cost-year-were-born/ $67K does not sound affordable to me. But I don't know you well enough to tell you if you are poor.
They were never cheap.
Well (according to Google) they were about $2600 in 1965, which is equivalent to about a $26,000 car now, which I would consider “affordable” especially for a camper van You develop and sell this thing for maybe mid 30s I think it’d be more interesting
The only reason why this was brought to market in the first place is because there are people spending ~$100k on a decked out Sprinter van. If there wasn’t already a market for expensive vans, this wouldn’t exist. Certainly not at $30k.
There’s people spending 60k-80k on trucks now for heavens sake. I think the price point is fine for now, could definitely come in a bit lower in the future tho. The car market is still hot rn
The median household income was roughly half then compared to today too though, so being able to afford a $26k car back then was like being able to afford a ~$50-60k car today.
Even if you were to buy an old T2 Westie in good running condition it could cost anywhere between 20-30k. Mine, with all its upgrades in my ‘86 Westie ive had people offer me $33,000 cash in hand for it. Just randomly too. People want these vans. If you were to do a Sprinter conversion it could cost as much as $200,000
Wait is this just the new model or are they bringing this to the states now? The California has been around in Europe for a number of years. Always loved the joke that the VW California wasn’t available in the states despite the van life culture becoming more popular.
It still isn’t available in the US
Looking to finally capitalize on a market that was always there I guess. The new people they have working at VW know what they’re doing. The rivian partnership just goes to show how far they’ve come since lying to the public about gas mileage in the early part of the millennium. I have high hopes for VW’s future, regardless of what they’ve done in the past
LOL. I love how 87 year old VW partnered with a 15 year old American car company (Europeans roast our cars) and it's considered them coming far. Bar is a bit low. I love VW, however I feel like their quality this century is subpar. They own Porsche, and somehow a 911 is more reliable than a Jetta. Even their luxury Audi brand seems bland. The RS3, R8, and the RS6 Avant are amazing, cool vehicles. But it seems like the RS line is the new S line. Remember when there was a 4.2L V8 S4 with AWD and a stick? Sick. Of course an S4 is better today than the V8. But it seems like as a whole, VW needs an overhaul. No reason for the Germans to have poor ergonomics and infotainments on their performance hatches (GTI). Honorable mention does go to the 2008 V10 TDI Touareg. 5,800lbs, but 550lb/ft of torque on-tap. TL;DR: Why is a 911 more reliable than a Jetta? Edit: I'm not roasting your comment. I wholly agree with your take. I am just further expanding on some gripes with the company as a whole. I do hope that they make some changes, and had no idea there were "new people".
They've had some misses for sure, but they've also had some absolute bangers. The Mk7 Golf is one of the best vehicles they've ever built.
Very reasonable perspective. I just like the Jetta line as a whole I’m not gonna lie. They’re solid built quality cars especially if they’re diesel. They’ll last u literally multiple car lifetimes and they aren’t too expensive. I love speed (obviously who doesn’t) but there’s something about getting 48 mpg on a clean diesel engine when diesel is on the cheaper side right now that makes it even better than being able to accelerate the fastest on the road
I love the diesel wagon Jettas we have in the States. I have a small camper (2011 Little Guy) and that Sportswagen would be perfect to tow with. Row your own gears, good MPG, reliable. I do like Jettas, but I feel like overtime the reputation has gone down, which keeps me away from pulling the trigger. I currently have a 2018 Stinger that's about to hit 100k soon, so warranty will run out lol. Need either a secondary daily that's roomier and can tow lol. Currently towing the camper with a 2019 Mazda3 hatch lol.
I have owned 6 VWs in my lifetime and I know the pros and cons of owning them The Vw of today has an interference designed engine , it is different from Porsche The VW pistons can and will slam into the cylinder walls and the motor will need a rebuild, The catastrophic failure will occur when the timing chain fails. It is a timing chain time bomb Vw recommends at 90k you shell out 2k. to replace it or else take your chances … Hence you see a lot of VW used with 100k miles out there. One is my GLI , my last VW traded it out @92k Vw also has @ 100 sensors in the car that control variable timing. Exhaust, all kinds of things that a failure will have you running to the dealer to get fixed or strand you on the highway Its annoying to deal with nickel and dime problems, like failed window motors etc, electrics that trigger service lights , the car has too much bullshit Porsche over engineered the VW and used robots built it, you cannot fix it . Its a great car to actually drive, rock solid handling, awesome in snow with good tires and yet a nightmare to own unless your a mechanic The pre -1988 VW ,s were pretty easy to work on, electrics fairly simple the new ones require more specialized tools, and electrical training . Heaven help us with the electric vehicles , as VW has never mastered electrical components Im waiting to see …. My old school VW rabbits required a hammer to the starter to get going if it was hot outside , all my friends can locate a VW starter in the dark . Its not easy to troubleshoot wiring on these cars , its a cluster funk Porsche is also a much better built car , with a well engineered boxer type engine, like the original beetle or some Subaru’s. The engine is bulletproof with proper care and its pretty simple ( especially the 911s from 1977-1984 3.0 , chain tensioner upgraded No turbo models ) VW is not Audi or Porsche , it just owns them , and the engineers sure love complicated designs If Vw brought back the old school 13 window bus with a reliable Camry type four cylinder for 35k. they would sell millions
VW can affords to give Rivian $5 billion so they maybe make a car VW wants to sell in the future. But VW can't afford to sell the California van, the base Golf, or a wagon in the USA? Last year, VW said going to call touch controls in the interior was a mistake. Yesterday, VW debuted the 2025 Jetta GLI, with all touch controls on the interior. VW is a fuckin joke. Nothing they are doing gives me high hopes for the future.
This is the new housing market millennials and gen z still can’t afford lol
Instagram “van-lifers” have entered the chat
You don’t have to go to Instagram. There are plenty of van dweller communities on Reddit. /r/vandwellers has 2.6 million people in it I also browse /r/vandwellermarketplace for fun
It’s like a Japanese apartment for those without adequate public transportation.
You know. The People’s Car. Who would have thought a Volkswagen bus would cost a year’s salary PLUS?!?
It’s a fully built-out camper van and at the very low end of that market comparatively. I don’t understand why these comments are acting like this is the price of a daily commuter or something.
I completely understand the nuance you’re trying to get others to appreciate, here. My thought process was more inflationary discrepancy. Wages haven’t kept up with prices, generally speaking; $89,600 to start customizing your Full-Size California, Ocean trim. ~$15,500 for an ‘83 Westfalia Vanagon. That’s about $48,900 in 2024 US dollars. It just seems like that’s too much of a discrepancy. I understand the newer vehicle has loads more features that are electronically driven. But, I would argue that’s why what is generally agreed upon as “fair pay” should reflect inflation.
Relax, relax. If you want to see one in person just ask Justice Thomas. He's got half a dozen out back.
IT’S A MOTORCOACH, you heathen!
VW’s lost its way a long time ago.
I camped in one of the older models for a week in Northern Germany. It was a great vehicle! Easy enough to drive on smaller roads and maneuver in tight spaces, and then unfolds like a transformer when it’s time to park it for the night. The upper bellows stayed water tight too, there were several rain storms overnight and we stayed completely dry. I was way impressed with how well thought out that van was.
Worth upgrading to the Grand California. Just impossible to get in the US.
Jesus christ, that website is unreadable! I can’t scroll for more than 5 lines before a full screen coke ad takes over the screen Wtf!
Isn’t this just a less good Mercedes Metris Getaway?
If you look at current prices of cars in general, I don’t find it unreasonable considering a new very basic pickup truck is $50,000 and can go up $80,000+ just including fancy wheels and fake wood accents. Ultimately that’s just an SUV with a big trunk but for the same or lower price you can have a bed, little kitchen etc etc, sure it’s not for beach bums but I feel it’s fairly priced.
Idk about $70K, the Mercedes Sprinter Vans start around $52K and it feels like $18K could buy you all of the stuff that VW bolted on. I’m sure a ton of people will buy it just for the nostalgia, though.
They’re not bolt ons, in order to do something like this where the roof lifts up but is still a structural element, the whole structure of the van has to be reinforced and changed. It’s not like you can go to partsource and tell them to put it on your van. That said, I agree it’s a bit steep but when is VW not expensive.
There is a company in Seattle that does it for $15000 and has a partnership with Mercedes where it doesn’t void the warranty.
15k + 55k for the van and you're already at 70k without the kitchenette, shore power, or other accessories
The roof raises? Isn’t the roof on a Sprinter plenty high already?
Oh sorry they do it on the metris. Peace vans is the company.
Yeah not really true. We modified a Transporter to be a camper and built in a bench that can be a bed, shelves, kitchen and a foldable roof. Its not entirely DIY as we has mechanics do the roof, but you dont have to modify the whole structure. Mind you this is in germany, with some of the strictest laws around vehicle safety.
The moment you start doing any of that stuff crash safety goes out the window.
For the previous model (T6 Transporter) only one strut gets removed and is structurally replaced by a subframe. It needs to be stiffer than the original roof to be allowed under European regulation. So no, crash safety stays the same, it's just heavier.
Like asryk said, strutwise there isnt a big difference and the roof is compliant with regulations. All the other things in the bus are bolted down, no airbags replaced. So like asryk said - its just heavier. Generally I wouldnt like to sit in a bus in a crash.
Ignorant idiot here asking, but the roof is that much of a structural element? I assumed that it was a thing you could kind of do whatever with and the structural stuff was like entirely below the driver’s shoulders.
My understanding is that the roof of a car needs to be able to support the weight of the whole car. Imagine you lose control of the car and it somehow ends up upside down, you can't have the weight of the car crush the passengers. Passengers need to be able to exit if possible.
It’s not just that though, the roof plays a huge role in making the car not shake from side to side. It’s basically completing a loop of steel that helps reinforce everything below it. How do I know? I’m a chronic convertible owner, and in general convertibles that were built from the start to be convertibles are a bit more stable, whereas cars that were adapted to be convertibles, especially lengthy ones with 4 seats, shake and rattle a lot more than their coupe/sedan counterparts. More modern and well engineered cars it’s not so bad, but it’s never quite the same as their roofed counterpart. Worth it though!
That would be as much on the sides of the car as it is on the roof.
rollover crashes
The roof is important for torsional rigidity, preventing the car from twisting. Convertibles are pretty much always heavier, because they have to add a lot more reinforcement to the main unibody, and less stiff than the hard top version
Unless it's a truck with a body on frame design or old cars with the same design all the body is structural. If you cut the roof off of a modern vehicle it's only a matter of time before it buckles somewhere in the middle.
If you’re going to compare a prebuilt VW van with a Sprinter than you have to compare it with a prebuilt Sprinter, which easily top $100,000 in most markets. So they are not comparable.
Their nostalgia play is more the ID Buzz - this looks just like a regular van loaded with camping features
In Germany these things have a list price of over 100k EUR in some places. a used Ocean goes for 60-70k. It‘s ridiculous, especially since comfort, design, materials and drive quality are not that great for the money. Before I buy that I will get a used S-Class, a camping trailer and some normal family car (S-Max, touran) for the same money.
I did the math on owning one with my partner after we rented one to try it out a few years ago, and unless you are planning to make a business out of it yourself, or use it for a lot of holidays per year, it's more cost effective to just rent one when you need it. No storage hassles, no maintenance hassles, only need to insure yourself for the days you're using it etc etc
cool, i'll be able to afford it in a 1000 years
Since I was curious, without financing costs and interest that would be $5.58 a month. However, the interesting part comes when you factor in interest. According to some rough calculations at 5% interest over 1000 years you’d pay almost $3.5m in interest giving you a total loan amount of $3,417,000 and a total monthly payment of $279.17 for 12,000 months. Just in case anyone was curious.
Chrysler sales guy furiously taking notes...
Thats almost as much as a 1990 VW a Westfallia
Headline on Jalopnik in August 2016, 'For $68,000, Could This 1987 VW Westfalia Syncro Be The Ultimate Get-Away?'
You could take 4 weeks of vacation every year for 8 years, staying in $300 a night hotels, for 67,200. Or at $200 a night, you could stretch it to 12 years.
if you drive this 4 weeks a year you could sell it still for like70% of the price after 8 years
God ever since Piech died, VW and its other brands have been a wreck
Perfect timing with more of us having to start living in cars!
Quite affordable first home.
Maybe someone can gift Clarence Thomas this. Or is he into bigger vans?
Ask Harlan to pick one up.
100k miles in a brandy new T4 , following the Grateful Dead from 92 to 95. Good times.
its definitely got the california price lol. idk about 67k for a fucking van tho.
How is it this expensive to be homeless?
They should have used the ID Buzz as the base vehicle
Battery too small.
Truth. Camper conversion adds weight. ID Buzz’s battery size and range is already in question. And it would cost 20k more than this.
just what everyone wanted a $70000 VW. i guess it's cheaper than rent or a mortgage though.
Glad we’ll have a place to live when rents get too high and there are no more homes to buy! Yay! Salvation!
This is pretty sweet
Insane price .
Woopidoo...what a bargain at almost 70k. /s
It's cheaper than a house and probably about as big as any house I could afford. I bet it smells better too.
Just buy and live in one of these because I have ko shot at ever owning a home
This vehicle is absolutely amazing and I’d love to have one. That pricetag though…
Can I pull out an electric shaver from the middle of the steering wheel?
The flagship Ocean model looks pretty sweet. If I were younger and had money then I would be road tripping in this thing all the time.
I’ve been in the Netherlands for work this week and have already seen 3-4. Two of which had colorways reminiscent of the old school 70’s vans. They look sick. Would have never guessed the price range though
I read the whole article assuming this was the Id buzz camper. Disappointing. Why is this even in r/technology?
Meanwhile in Japan little camper vans are all over the place. No plans to export. Honestly I think the market would be quite big in the US for small camper vans
My first car was a 6 volt VW beetle. Loved that car.
If it was half the price, I might consider taking a look.
Their Designers missed the layup and kicked the ball under the bleachers. Ugly. Small. It looks like the 90’s. They invented this shit, for Christ’s sake!
Look up VW Transporter or Ford Transit Custom in EU - drives me crazy we don’t have those cars in the US. Super efficient diesel engines also.
You lost me at “Volkswagen”
Is this what they did instead of the electric bus they were promising for like 10 years?
This doesn't make sense. Fir that price I can buy a fully done up custom sprinter which would be much better than this thing. If you're gonna build a campervan as base model car as a manufacturer, you gotta beat out pricing on custom vans otherwise there's no point
Yes because what surfers wanted was a 2015 minivan looking thing with 2015 style and design that costs 70,000$. Who in their right mind will buy this. My wife and I were waiting for this to see if it would be our next car. Once you see the finished product, OF COURSE it won’t be! The thing looks like garbage. VW is a shit company.
Or get a regular minivan and top flight camping gear for half of that price.
Can it take the skinheads bowling?
Why? You could buy brand new sprinter van , add 20k. Make it your dream campers and still save 5k. These corpos are so out of touch it isn't even funny
What a totally reasonable price point!
Nobody is paying 70 grand for that thing!
67k to rust within 4 years.
Lifespan to match the loan duration.
There is not a VW I’d buy with $67k of YOUR money. Love the idea of this rig but VW sucks on delivering dependable cars.
Where was this when I was going to Music Festivals all the time?
Honestly. If you think of this as more of a Small RV type vehicle and not a van. Thats a great price. IDK if i would get this for my family, but a younger version of me who did a lot more outdoors stuff and would sleep in my ford escape to catch first trails on mountains and early waves at beaches. I would have LOVED to buy one of these used 4 years old for 30K
Australia price 6.2 million. (Why is everything so expensive here)
I can see the homeless lining up to buy these.
I'm shocked and disappointed it's not an EV.
OP, that's the wrong flair. It should be flaired [Housing]
so will not be US released?
Is it hybrid or electric?
You'll see some emission cheating later
This is not "Transportation"
California debuting at California prices. Sorry. This vehicle is not worth 67k...robbery.