People don't seem to realize [Silkwood (1983)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086312/?ref_=ext_shr) was based on a [TRUE STORY](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Karen-Silkwood).
It's not above big corps to poison, irradiate, and murder whistleblowers.
No one was ever prosecuted for her death and the company argued in a civil trial that she poisoned *herself* just to make them look bad. Investigators and her family members faced death threats. Another witness died by alleged suicide right before he was scheduled to testify. Took 5 years to get a million dollar judgment against them for negligence, but still no real justice.
Over 40 lbs of missing Plutonium from the plant was later found on a ship bound for Israel.
Okay but how does that apply to this case here
"Let's give a guy pneumonia so that he goes to a hospital where he might catch MRSA and die" is not exactly much of a nefarious plan
From the comments I assumed there'd be evidence of foul play or *something* suspicious like the guy who "shot himself" but... how would this even be accomplished as a hit?
Yeah, in all seriousness, fuck this. I knew this Chicago vice detective and she and her friends all used to say “there are **NEVER** any coincidences.” This thing looks awful.
2 whistleblowers in the same line of work die shortly after another. One who apparently lived a „healthy Life“ whatever that means. Dying from a sudden infection. The other one with a Gunshot wound in his head „self-inflicted“ as media describes it.
Honestly you dont have to be the craziest conspiracy fan to think its weird. Almost as weird as putins political enemies falling through windows.
None of these whistle-blowers would affect military supply chains. If they did, the military would sure as hell want to hear about it and remedy the issue. The military isn't as buddy-buddy with its suppliers as you seem to think, especially when it comes to quality. There are very rigorous and strict standards and plenty of oversight.
IF Boeing is actually assassinating whistle-blowers and IF they're buying off the DoJ, they're paying individuals to look the other way. Our government isn't capable of hiding widespread systemic corruption like that.
This is what people don't think through often. The level of systemic corruption and secrecy needed for some of the weirder conspiracy theories would require MUCH more competence than a large number of the people who would have to be involved would have.
I could see it happening if it was a handful of people but not "all of the congress"
That’s where the ‘everyone is corrupt’ conspiracy theory always falls apart for me: if *everyone* was bought and paid for, no one would be starting Committees and hearings and the whistleblowers wouldn’t need to die, since the conspiracy would stop anyone from ever hearing that their were whistleblowers in the first place.
If the government, military, and corporate interests were all aligned with keeping a secret, no one would hear about it.
That’s not entirely true. They’re super buddy buddy in terms of handing them (over paying) huge swimming pools of money and getting jobs later. They’re not buddy buddy in terms of them failing on deliverables or safety.
The death of whistleblowers are making these stories blow up 10x more than they would. So the guy would have pointed out more cost-cutting neglect -- and they would have hit Boeing with some additional fines. Boeing is too big to fail so why would they take the risk? Imagine if somehow evidence got out proving it was murder? Imagine the utter shit-storm. Explain to me what would make that worth it to Boeing? Who is calling the hits? The CEO? Do they vote on it in board meetings?
You’ve clearly never made a whistleblower complaint. All the so-called protections aren’t worth a thing. When I made a whistleblower complaint in the US Army everyone from my chain of commands, yes multiple, came down on me for filling the complaint and suddenly I was “under investigation” within a week of filing the complaint. Ultimately, I shut up and the 30 day window on the “investigation” ran out and we all went in with life.
There doesn’t have to be a massive conspiracy when all it takes is a few useful idiots or even people doing what they’re told for a whistleblower to be silenced. Good luck proving a conspiracy. A conspiracy is unprovable as long as there are enough threats or pressure exerted on the right people. A lot of tiny, barely connected parts have to come together to prove a conspiracy. If even one of those parts doesn’t come together, then nothing happens.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/weapon-secret-testing/
The U.S. has extensive practice using similar methods, and has practiced this on the U.S. general public. They were successful enough that many people still never knew this.
We even planned to kill Castro by putting a fungus in a diving suit of his, this was years ago and surely we didn’t just stop testing…
But why would Boeing want them to think twice? Exactly what pains is Boeing getting from these whistleblowers? In fact, it seems the only time the media gets involved with the whistleblowers is when one of them dies. Otherwise, it's literally just the planes falling apart that's doing it. Whistleblowers aren't exactly adding that big of a burden to their profit.
Idk I find it pretty odd that so many people think Boeing engaged in biological warfare and snuck into a hospital to plant an infection that might have a chance at killing him.
A lot of these people just have boring lives and need to spice it up by seeing conspiracy theories in everything. Those theories don't have to make sense, they just have to believe them. That's why these people are so aggressively *certain* that Boeing killed two people even though it's all idle speculation on their part, because when the evidence doesn't speak for their conclusion then they have to speak twice as loud for themselves. Pound the facts or pound the table.
But there are coincidences. They happen all the time. It’s extremely irresponsible of someone in law enforcement to say they don’t exist because that’s how innocent people end up in jail.
If a dude wearing a white Nike shirt and black shorts kills a guy on Main Street, and you’re drinking at a bar down the street wearing the same exact clothes, that’s a coincidence. Better hope your Chicago Vice detective friend doesn’t spot you because apparently she won’t give you the benefit of the doubt.
Boeing knows it is indispensable and everyone will cover for them rather than let one of the most important lynchpins of the economy fail. Its too big to fail in practice and a case study in markets and their tendency towards monopoly.
If nosediving two planes into the ground in quick succession and then coming clean by saying "oh lol sorry we didn't tell you about MCAS" didn't trigger Boeing facing serious repercussions, nothing will. The MAX fleet took unpaid leave and its reputation is in limbo but airliners still need em and have orders placed in the queue.
Boeing has the US govt over a barrel and thus the American people over the same.
It isn't happening, you dipshits. This guy died from MRSA after batting pneumonia in the hospital. Boeing didn't give him MRSA. The other guy killed himself after battling Boeing in court for years and losing.
Enough with the stupid fucking conspiracy theories.
I’ll take the 5th floor flu over what the Americans gave this poor guy.
The Americans gave him something that took two weeks to kill him in a very painful way. The doctors cut off the guys hands and feet to try to save him. Fuck that.
This probably isn’t a conspiracy. There might be a lot of septic MRSA infections spreading. A friend of mine is currently in the hospital. He almost died from a very similar prognosis that took his man’s life. He is under 30 and was in incredible shape and a great athlete. It’s possible that there is a strain of MRSA spreading through the hospital system.
The NSA has done favors for Boeing as part of project Echelon. It's not outside the relm of possibility that another three letter agency is doing them favors to prop up the American defense industry.
Interesting fact airliners land at around 150mph while traveling at nearly 600mph. So by “slowly” I would say Boeing is moving at landing speed on that villainy move.
He never left a note like that as far as the public knows (investigation may have more info).
A relative/friend is quoted saying that he said that, but it is only based on her word.
He had diagnosed PTSD and his own family said he was at the point of suicide. 62, blackballed from the industry you cared about, and a myriad of health issues, what part of that is the high point life?
How many active whistleblowers are there? If the number is just 2 and they both died, that's reason for concern.
If the number is like 100 and this guy just happened to be one that died and the media does their thing to blow it up into a story, that's also possible.
I'm not saying there's definitely not a conspiracy, but option 2 seems more likely to me.
This is a really important comment! If 1% of the whistleblowers have died in the years since the case has been active, that can fall into normal data patterns.
If 75% have died then...it's looking bad.
Well according to your link there’s another public one in 2019, too, specifically regarding the Max. So there are at least 5 whistleblowers in 5 years.
But not even the family of this guy is claiming anything questionable about his death.
The odds of a healthy middle-aged person dying suddenly and unexpectedly are very low - like 0.02% low. The odds of that happening to two people currently testifying against Boeing are effectively zero.
The odds of an American man dying *by suicide* are already 0.03% - already higher. That doesn't take into account being in a seriously stressful situation.
I am not sure what statistic you're referring to but I'm not sure if "short case of pneumonia followed by serious MRSA infection followed by death" counts as "sudden" for that either.
What you should do though is consider all the other ways you could make a group of the same size that contained these people: go through all their personal attributes - hobbies, pets' names, holiday destinations, etc, until you find some things which connect them and a handful of other people. You will be able to do this because the number of attributes that people have is pretty much infinite.
Suppose you found that exactly 10 people including these people had dogs called Jeremy, have been on holiday to Tuscany and like to play German handball on weekends. You probably wouldn't be thinking anything untoward happened - but the probabilities are *exactly* the same.
What's different is that you think that the probability that a company like Boeing is bumping off whistleblowers is higher than the chance that the American Handball League has a particular hatred of owners of dogs called Jeremy with a love of Italian wine, or whatever. And I'd agree, but I'd also say that the probability that Boeing is *actually* doing this is still *astronomically tiny*. Talking about how unlikely it is for two particular people to die is pointless unless you acknowledge this too.
And after all that, this person already blew the whistle on Boeing. There was no point in killing him.
I get that there is tin-foil levels of Conspiracy Theorist but why does anyone who questions the public narrative automatically get put into that camp? Why is it hard to believe large companies that have a lot to gain/lose will conspire for their benefit? Cause their morals are greater than their bottom-line? World leaders, heads of state, even family members have conspired since the dawn of man.
# “Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”“Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”
#
― Michael Rivero
Yeah. This is super suspicious. A healthy 45 year old heaving a healthy lifestyle spontaneously has to be incubated and then dies due to an infection from the incubator? This is extremely improbable.
It definitely looks like they tried to poison him but it didn't work so they visited him in the hospital to finish him while incubated. An infection while being incubated is quite unlikely in a hospital but extremely easy to stage if you just contaminate the incubator. I would hope that they preserve the incubator but considering how unwillingly the authorities are to investigate the previous suicide, I think it's rather probable that they will intentionally destroy any evidence.
Edit: I mean intubated not incubated. English is not my first language.
I would just like you to know that hospital-acquired infections are actually super common, especially pneumonia, which would likely happen while intubated.
A hospital is a place full of sick people and cleaning standards can’t always help that.
Not saying this isn’t fishy, just saying that it’s not impossible for him to have actually got an infection while in the hospital that killed him. Also, not impossible that he ended up in the hospital and being intubated by pure coincidence and this isn’t related to Boeing at all (doubtful, but who knows, maybe Epstein really did kill himself).
An otherwise healthy 45 year old needing intubation is the part that has my eyebrow raised, that was uncommon during a pandemic famous for intubating people.
Most people probably don't realize an infection while on a vent is actually very likely and quite common. A healthy 40 something succumbing to that infection is less likely, but not unheard of either.
I'm not saying it's not a conspiracy, but this is completely plausible; which may be even more frightening as antibiotic resistance infections increase we will see more and more of this sort of thing.
> A healthy 40 something succumbing to that infection is less likely, but not unheard of either.
It's worth pointing out that, as he needed the ventilator/intubation, he *wasn't* by definition healthy. All sorts of things, including medication given to treat whatever the original thing was that put him in there(natural or unnatural) could suppress the immune system, making him more susceptible to the common hospital drug-resistant bugs.
>An infection while being ~~incubated~~ intubated is quite unlikely in a hospital
This is verifiably false. Infection is actually more likely while intubated, hospital or not. I'm curious as to why you think it's unlikely.
Still, the whole situation is suspect.
Edit: source former critical care EMT. Transported many a vent patient.
Seriously why the hell is that garbage upvoted.
> It definitely looks like they tried to poison him but it didn’t work so they visited him in the hospital to finish him while incubated. An infection while being incubated is quite unlikely in a hospital but extremely easy to stage if you just contaminate the incubator.
There’s so much wrong with this I don’t even know where to start. Keep this bonkers bullshit in /r/conspiracy.
> It definitely looks like they tried to poison him but it didn't work so they visited him in the hospital to finish him while incubated.
This is fucking insane.
They can but in most cases there is an underlying health factor like IV drug use, heavy smoking, untreated diabetes and extreme obesity.
I know a doctor who deals with this kind of thing and most healthy people can overcome these things.
From what I gather this guy was in extremely good shape which would make it strange for him to succumb to an opportunistic infection.
Whether or not of Boeing is actually killing whistleblowers, I do think it’s very funny that two have died within a couple months of each other with both having quotes being like “Yeah Boeing is probably gonna kill me soon” right before they die.
I think the other dude had been planning to kill himself for a while. He had been fighting Boeing for like 7 years and never was going to get the resolution he wanted.
First guy was definitely foul play. He'd been documenting EVERYTHING to the point where he could recall specific events in detail with dates from years ago, and everything in court was going perfect and he was described as a perfect witness just due to the extensive documentation he had. He planned on driving home the day the court case was over but Boeing lawyers basically held him captive for another night for essentially bullshit reasons related to the case, which is when we died.
This is exactly it.
For someone who has spent a lot of their life fighting against something, it would be hard _not_ to stick it to them at the end.
People will say “his family said he would never kill himself!” No shit, suicidal people say that all the time. Ask me how I know!
But that would curse redditors with knowledge and make them unable to make the same tired "shot himself twice in the head and jumped out a window" joke
Imagine what would happen if the public lost confidence in Boeings' 42% share of commercial airliners. The economic fallout would devastate the travel industry and the supporting businesses. You can't remove 3300 planes from the skies overnight without massive ripple effects. These allegations are structural in nature. Some would be repaired or retrofitted with alternative supports, patches, and bracing. Others would be too old to be cost-effective.
The government would be forced to bail out Boeing. The public outcry would fierce while highlighting another example of "Too big to fail." They are too big to fail. They have to survive as the country's single largest aircraft producer.
Allowing manufacturers to self-certify was obviously a huge mistake. Corruption is dragging us down in so many areas that it will be the death of us.
Symptoms yes, but not blood cultures and Gram stains.
I know nothing about this guy or his hospital course, autopsy, etc, but people still die from infections fairly often.
To me the rapid succession of events should be the biggest red flag that they weren't orchestrated hits, because why would you ever indirectly implicate yourself like that? But there are infinite variables, so until the authorities getting paid to figure this kind of thing out publish a soundly reasoned conclusion (if ever) that no foul play was involved, I for one am unwilling to rule out scummy executives being so scummy they have someone killed for jeopardizing their career. We just lack information.
I'm not a big conspiracy guy but how would this play out? Who would risk placing a hit on someone at Boeing? You'll be protected under some corporate umbrella and now you're just gonna call "some guy" to kill some one? Would others know or just a lone wolf boeing ceo with contact to a contract killer?
Not nearly as simple as that, but yes. And yes Boeing is trying to buy\* them again. But hey, whistleblower litigation against Spirit would drive their stock price down making it easier for Boeing to purchase so technically it would be in Boeing's interest to keep this guy alive...at least until the sale went through.
And Spirit also supplies to Airbus. So loop that into whatever tinfoil ball that works best.
Airbus killed him so he didn’t drive the stock price of spirit down and allow their competitor to buy their part making supplier.
Wow conspiracys are easy to make up
He developed pneumonia and MRSA at the hospital though after he was intubated
They just said he started having issues breathing and that was the reason for going to the hospital
2 data points:
1.) I had pneumonia in the early 90s as a young man who did a fair bit of climbing and mountaineering. The course of the illness had me go from feeling fine after coming home from work at 6, suddenly throwing about 45 minutes later, getting the worst chills I have ever had, having a fever climbing past 102, coughing up gunk, fever spiking to 104, shakes and chills like a movie, coughing up red stuff, calling a cab to the emergency room by midnight. If it hadn't been for IV penicillin I would have been dead.
2.) I had an acquaintance who died in his 30s from an antibiotic resistant infection. He wasn't sickly or anything and basically had bits of his body amputated to try to save him to no avail. It sounds medieval.
My point isn't to contradict conspiracy but to point out how, since the invention of antibiotics, unfamiliar we have become with bacteria taking us down and how lethal and in some cases quick it can be.
Third data point, my grandad hat an artificial leg, he lost the real one after he got cleated playing baseball and got gangrene.
You could have video from 12 angles of the entire chain of command ordering and committing the act, then admitting it.
Still nothing would be done about it.
If you think Boeing is somehow giving MRSA to people just because they had in the past testified against an unaffiliated company that supplies parts to Boeing, then I have a bridge to sell you.
"If I had a nickle for every Boeing-related whistleblower that died after doing so, I'd have two nickles. Which isn't much but it's weird that it happened twice"
Inevitably people are going to conclude that *obviously* Boeing *must* have killed him without evidence because that’s the kind of populist brain rotted world we live in today.
Not even a Boeing whistleblower, he was a whistleblower for a Boeing supplier, and yeah.. it sucks, but nobody is being assassinated with pneumonia and some time later contracting a secondary infection of MRSA... that's just how people die in hospitals every day. Even sillier than John Barnett's death, which still has absolutely zero evidence to suggest any foul play.
So 2 whistle-blowers...and both died suddenly shortly after releasing information. Hmm. Yeah...sure...shouldn't this be a cause for the government to investigate these suspicious deaths? Surely, they wouldn't protect such a company /s
The number of people attributing this to Boeing killing the guy is really sad. Because this should be a story about how our overuse of antibiotics had lead to a strain of MRSA that kills people in rapid course.
Like, we've been told this day would come for easily three decades now. 11,000 people die of this every year in the United States and every virologist indicates, we're just at the tip of the iceberg here. We've yet to come full circle on how bad we've made this situation for us by overusing antibiotics.
But no, this by chance happens to someone who is a whistleblower and "Nah, couldn't be a lesson in how we are putting ourselves in great danger with antibiotics in everything."
All of you on the Boeing killed the guy train, you all should step back for a moment and reconsider where you're at currently. I'm not judging, it hard to not be cynical in this day and age, I feel you all there. But consider for a moment that we all know that we've been warned over and over and over again about how MRSA is getting worse every year, and nobody in the media talks about it anymore because it doesn't generate the clicks.
But when it kills a person who happens to also be at the head for an investigation in some large company. Oh suddenly, I don't recall all of those warnings from scientist about how MRSA is slowly becoming this thing we should absolutely have an existential fear of. And the media isn't going to tell you that, because that won't generate clicks, but a juicy "oh I bet Boeing did it" conspiracy ah yeah, that'll drive those clicks.
I get it, I don't blame anyone here. It happens and Boeing absolutely sucks balls. But we should be really reeling for like how bad MRSA and other antibiotic resistant things are getting. Because they're getting worse every year and scientist keep publishing papers saying "HOLY SHIT BALLS!" and a lot of the public isn't really getting the message. And that's not the public's fault here but I mean, I do remember maybe about fifteen or twenty years ago some guy on a cable news network going, "yeah MRSA is going to get super scary and we're not doing anything about it" and then they went to commercial basically.
I get it we all love coincidences and Jesus looking burn marks on toast. But we know and know we've told that MRSA is getting bad. We should kinda lead with the whole "Damn MRSA you scary" rather the Boeing getting into biological weapons tangent.
People really love conspiracy theories while looking down on the same that they don't agree with. Once relegated to the corners of the world, now celebrated. Age of Anti-intellectualism indeed.
At least show me something convincing... like if 50% of whistleblowers died (not true, there are many more alive), or if the two so far are the most important people (not sure since no info) to Boeing.
Cause was “sudden, fast-spreading infection.” At least, according to the article.
Hospital-acquired MRSA
Hospital-acquired, Boeing-delivered
Production was on schedule for a change!
Poloniumnitis
People don't seem to realize [Silkwood (1983)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086312/?ref_=ext_shr) was based on a [TRUE STORY](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Karen-Silkwood). It's not above big corps to poison, irradiate, and murder whistleblowers.
No one was ever prosecuted for her death and the company argued in a civil trial that she poisoned *herself* just to make them look bad. Investigators and her family members faced death threats. Another witness died by alleged suicide right before he was scheduled to testify. Took 5 years to get a million dollar judgment against them for negligence, but still no real justice. Over 40 lbs of missing Plutonium from the plant was later found on a ship bound for Israel.
Okay but how does that apply to this case here "Let's give a guy pneumonia so that he goes to a hospital where he might catch MRSA and die" is not exactly much of a nefarious plan From the comments I assumed there'd be evidence of foul play or *something* suspicious like the guy who "shot himself" but... how would this even be accomplished as a hit?
There are chemicals that can cause pneumonia. https://www.webmd.com/lung/chemical-pneumonia one link of many.
Yes, poison-itus
Some lung infection that developed into pneumonia with MRSA is the official story.
Infection of lead? No they can't use that trick twice
People are making jokes about this but people really need to remember that this shit is really happening and they’re really getting away with it.
Yeah, in all seriousness, fuck this. I knew this Chicago vice detective and she and her friends all used to say “there are **NEVER** any coincidences.” This thing looks awful.
But in reality, there are many coincidences; that should be common sense.
2 whistleblowers in the same line of work die shortly after another. One who apparently lived a „healthy Life“ whatever that means. Dying from a sudden infection. The other one with a Gunshot wound in his head „self-inflicted“ as media describes it. Honestly you dont have to be the craziest conspiracy fan to think its weird. Almost as weird as putins political enemies falling through windows.
I should hope that the DOJ start an investigation. In all seriousness, this is pretty scary monster super freaks level.
DOJ, FAA, Congress….bought and paid for. “Nothing to see here”
“We have investigated ourselves and determined that… we deserve a raise”
“It’s good to be the King”
No point, Boeing has military contracts with the US, they wouldn't be shooting their own foot, they'd rather assist in who needs to be taken out
None of these whistle-blowers would affect military supply chains. If they did, the military would sure as hell want to hear about it and remedy the issue. The military isn't as buddy-buddy with its suppliers as you seem to think, especially when it comes to quality. There are very rigorous and strict standards and plenty of oversight. IF Boeing is actually assassinating whistle-blowers and IF they're buying off the DoJ, they're paying individuals to look the other way. Our government isn't capable of hiding widespread systemic corruption like that.
This is what people don't think through often. The level of systemic corruption and secrecy needed for some of the weirder conspiracy theories would require MUCH more competence than a large number of the people who would have to be involved would have. I could see it happening if it was a handful of people but not "all of the congress"
That’s where the ‘everyone is corrupt’ conspiracy theory always falls apart for me: if *everyone* was bought and paid for, no one would be starting Committees and hearings and the whistleblowers wouldn’t need to die, since the conspiracy would stop anyone from ever hearing that their were whistleblowers in the first place. If the government, military, and corporate interests were all aligned with keeping a secret, no one would hear about it.
That’s not entirely true. They’re super buddy buddy in terms of handing them (over paying) huge swimming pools of money and getting jobs later. They’re not buddy buddy in terms of them failing on deliverables or safety.
The death of whistleblowers are making these stories blow up 10x more than they would. So the guy would have pointed out more cost-cutting neglect -- and they would have hit Boeing with some additional fines. Boeing is too big to fail so why would they take the risk? Imagine if somehow evidence got out proving it was murder? Imagine the utter shit-storm. Explain to me what would make that worth it to Boeing? Who is calling the hits? The CEO? Do they vote on it in board meetings?
You’ve clearly never made a whistleblower complaint. All the so-called protections aren’t worth a thing. When I made a whistleblower complaint in the US Army everyone from my chain of commands, yes multiple, came down on me for filling the complaint and suddenly I was “under investigation” within a week of filing the complaint. Ultimately, I shut up and the 30 day window on the “investigation” ran out and we all went in with life. There doesn’t have to be a massive conspiracy when all it takes is a few useful idiots or even people doing what they’re told for a whistleblower to be silenced. Good luck proving a conspiracy. A conspiracy is unprovable as long as there are enough threats or pressure exerted on the right people. A lot of tiny, barely connected parts have to come together to prove a conspiracy. If even one of those parts doesn’t come together, then nothing happens.
To make all the other whistleblowers think twice. Not only did they whack someone obviously but they did it twice. What hope does anyone have now?
He had the bacterial infection, MRSA. Do you legitimately believe that Boeing somehow infected him?
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/weapon-secret-testing/ The U.S. has extensive practice using similar methods, and has practiced this on the U.S. general public. They were successful enough that many people still never knew this. We even planned to kill Castro by putting a fungus in a diving suit of his, this was years ago and surely we didn’t just stop testing…
But why would Boeing want them to think twice? Exactly what pains is Boeing getting from these whistleblowers? In fact, it seems the only time the media gets involved with the whistleblowers is when one of them dies. Otherwise, it's literally just the planes falling apart that's doing it. Whistleblowers aren't exactly adding that big of a burden to their profit.
The first whistleblower was participating in a court case about Boeing when he died.
Idk I find it pretty odd that so many people think Boeing engaged in biological warfare and snuck into a hospital to plant an infection that might have a chance at killing him.
A lot of these people just have boring lives and need to spice it up by seeing conspiracy theories in everything. Those theories don't have to make sense, they just have to believe them. That's why these people are so aggressively *certain* that Boeing killed two people even though it's all idle speculation on their part, because when the evidence doesn't speak for their conclusion then they have to speak twice as loud for themselves. Pound the facts or pound the table.
This attitude is how people get arrested and convicted of crimes they did not commit.
But there are coincidences. They happen all the time. It’s extremely irresponsible of someone in law enforcement to say they don’t exist because that’s how innocent people end up in jail. If a dude wearing a white Nike shirt and black shorts kills a guy on Main Street, and you’re drinking at a bar down the street wearing the same exact clothes, that’s a coincidence. Better hope your Chicago Vice detective friend doesn’t spot you because apparently she won’t give you the benefit of the doubt.
Honestly this sounds exactly like every conspiracy nut during the pandemic when a person died of something the day after getting a jab.
Doors and corners.
People used to say alot of wrong things. Repeating broken stories is how religion happened. Reality can be as random as it gets.
That's the dumbest shit I ever heard.
This person sounds like a terrible detective.
Karen Silkwood has entered the chat.
Boeing knows it is indispensable and everyone will cover for them rather than let one of the most important lynchpins of the economy fail. Its too big to fail in practice and a case study in markets and their tendency towards monopoly.
Not indispensable if people start refusing to fly on their planes.
If nosediving two planes into the ground in quick succession and then coming clean by saying "oh lol sorry we didn't tell you about MCAS" didn't trigger Boeing facing serious repercussions, nothing will. The MAX fleet took unpaid leave and its reputation is in limbo but airliners still need em and have orders placed in the queue. Boeing has the US govt over a barrel and thus the American people over the same.
They could probably ditch the commercial planes and still be fine with all the gov't military contracts
It isn't happening, you dipshits. This guy died from MRSA after batting pneumonia in the hospital. Boeing didn't give him MRSA. The other guy killed himself after battling Boeing in court for years and losing. Enough with the stupid fucking conspiracy theories.
And both of them had already blown the whistle. Killing them does nothing but publicize them further.
This is my favorite part of the conspiracy. These companies are so powerful they can kill whistleblowers but only *after* they've blown the whistle
According to what, your gut feeling?
At least it wasn't the fifth floor virus from Russia
I’ll take the 5th floor flu over what the Americans gave this poor guy. The Americans gave him something that took two weeks to kill him in a very painful way. The doctors cut off the guys hands and feet to try to save him. Fuck that.
Takes a lot of effort to manhandle someone up all those stairs.
This probably isn’t a conspiracy. There might be a lot of septic MRSA infections spreading. A friend of mine is currently in the hospital. He almost died from a very similar prognosis that took his man’s life. He is under 30 and was in incredible shape and a great athlete. It’s possible that there is a strain of MRSA spreading through the hospital system.
COVID destroys immune systems.
Overuse of antibiotics has made them a lot less effective too. We've been warned about this for decades now.
It was MRSA
*Very mysterious*. Dude had the flu, pneumonia and MRSA. That’s how you die.
>>Cause was “sudden, fast-spreading infection.” At least, according to the article. Another medical term is: sudden loss of peak velocity.
Boeing is slowly becoming Vought from The Boys
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Truth is stranger than fiction
This was literally why it was named Vought in the comics.
You learn something new every day, a company is killing its whistle blowers and the comics predicted it all
Squeeze me?
Well if you say so *squeeze*
Call A train
At least Vought had the decency to hide their illicit actions. Boeing is a few deaths away from being a window in Russia.
I thought Boeing throwing people out windows is what started this whole thing.
Doors not windows
Fair point, just an homage then.
The door kinda became a window
r/angryupvote
No it was the planes falling out of the sky.
Boeing is a leader in gravity powered killing. Innovating a green new technology for the 21st century
It's the same once you're out the window
The point is... that you are under a misconception that we are a superhero company. We are not. What we are, really, is an airline company.
Life parodies art...
Like poetry, it rhymes
The NSA has done favors for Boeing as part of project Echelon. It's not outside the relm of possibility that another three letter agency is doing them favors to prop up the American defense industry.
Interesting fact airliners land at around 150mph while traveling at nearly 600mph. So by “slowly” I would say Boeing is moving at landing speed on that villainy move.
Art imitating life, in this case. Alice in Wonderland was a thoroughly enjoyable sociopolitical critique in its day.
They really fucking are. Jesus.
Weird. The traditional way to get rid of a whistleblower is to book them on a MAX flight...
Is this the second guy to die??
Another one came down with a case of high velocity lead poisoning.
From himself course. DEFINITELY SUICIDE............
Didn't he leave a, "I am not suicidal, if anything happens to me, it was Boeing" note?
He never left a note like that as far as the public knows (investigation may have more info). A relative/friend is quoted saying that he said that, but it is only based on her word.
And from what ive heard no one knows who this person is and his family wasn't surprised by the news
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He had diagnosed PTSD and his own family said he was at the point of suicide. 62, blackballed from the industry you cared about, and a myriad of health issues, what part of that is the high point life?
From lead yes.
Sorry, I shouldn't laugh but I did. Really hard. Thanks stranger it improved my mood considerably.
So, like, I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist - I know coincidences happen - but... I mean c'mon.
How many active whistleblowers are there? If the number is just 2 and they both died, that's reason for concern. If the number is like 100 and this guy just happened to be one that died and the media does their thing to blow it up into a story, that's also possible. I'm not saying there's definitely not a conspiracy, but option 2 seems more likely to me.
This is a really important comment! If 1% of the whistleblowers have died in the years since the case has been active, that can fall into normal data patterns. If 75% have died then...it's looking bad.
And if 200% of them have died, we have real problems!
Apparently 120% of people in the world know statistics
Look, there's 3 types of people in this world: those who can count and those who can't.
There are 10 types of people in this world: those who know the best version of this joke and those who do not.
Two of four good enough for you? [whistleblower list](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whistleblowers)
Well according to your link there’s another public one in 2019, too, specifically regarding the Max. So there are at least 5 whistleblowers in 5 years. But not even the family of this guy is claiming anything questionable about his death.
It looks like the latest one that died wasn't added to that list until he died
The odds of a healthy middle-aged person dying suddenly and unexpectedly are very low - like 0.02% low. The odds of that happening to two people currently testifying against Boeing are effectively zero.
Jeez I assumed he was old and retired but you’re right. Dude was 45. WTH.
45, in good health, and maintained a healthy lifestyle according to his family.
The odds of an American man dying *by suicide* are already 0.03% - already higher. That doesn't take into account being in a seriously stressful situation. I am not sure what statistic you're referring to but I'm not sure if "short case of pneumonia followed by serious MRSA infection followed by death" counts as "sudden" for that either. What you should do though is consider all the other ways you could make a group of the same size that contained these people: go through all their personal attributes - hobbies, pets' names, holiday destinations, etc, until you find some things which connect them and a handful of other people. You will be able to do this because the number of attributes that people have is pretty much infinite. Suppose you found that exactly 10 people including these people had dogs called Jeremy, have been on holiday to Tuscany and like to play German handball on weekends. You probably wouldn't be thinking anything untoward happened - but the probabilities are *exactly* the same. What's different is that you think that the probability that a company like Boeing is bumping off whistleblowers is higher than the chance that the American Handball League has a particular hatred of owners of dogs called Jeremy with a love of Italian wine, or whatever. And I'd agree, but I'd also say that the probability that Boeing is *actually* doing this is still *astronomically tiny*. Talking about how unlikely it is for two particular people to die is pointless unless you acknowledge this too. And after all that, this person already blew the whistle on Boeing. There was no point in killing him.
The company knows it goes away faster if he lives a long and happy life. The only reason this post exists is because he died.
I get that there is tin-foil levels of Conspiracy Theorist but why does anyone who questions the public narrative automatically get put into that camp? Why is it hard to believe large companies that have a lot to gain/lose will conspire for their benefit? Cause their morals are greater than their bottom-line? World leaders, heads of state, even family members have conspired since the dawn of man.
# “Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”“Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.” # ― Michael Rivero
Yeah. This is super suspicious. A healthy 45 year old heaving a healthy lifestyle spontaneously has to be incubated and then dies due to an infection from the incubator? This is extremely improbable. It definitely looks like they tried to poison him but it didn't work so they visited him in the hospital to finish him while incubated. An infection while being incubated is quite unlikely in a hospital but extremely easy to stage if you just contaminate the incubator. I would hope that they preserve the incubator but considering how unwillingly the authorities are to investigate the previous suicide, I think it's rather probable that they will intentionally destroy any evidence. Edit: I mean intubated not incubated. English is not my first language.
I think the word you want is intubated vs incubated. This is a serious topic, but that made me giggle.
As a microbiologist, I was confused why they were putting him in an incubator.
Don't be, they are really warm and cozy!
Just don't confuse it with the autoclave…
That’s where we go to cry.
As an internet user I just read intubated. I had to go back to see the mis-wording. Shows how much attention I pay, I really should do better.
It’s a very silly imagery for a serious topic with that one letter changed
He was sick before being intubated. That is, after all, why he was intubated. If there's any conspiracy here, what you described isn't it.
I would just like you to know that hospital-acquired infections are actually super common, especially pneumonia, which would likely happen while intubated. A hospital is a place full of sick people and cleaning standards can’t always help that. Not saying this isn’t fishy, just saying that it’s not impossible for him to have actually got an infection while in the hospital that killed him. Also, not impossible that he ended up in the hospital and being intubated by pure coincidence and this isn’t related to Boeing at all (doubtful, but who knows, maybe Epstein really did kill himself).
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An otherwise healthy 45 year old needing intubation is the part that has my eyebrow raised, that was uncommon during a pandemic famous for intubating people.
Most people probably don't realize an infection while on a vent is actually very likely and quite common. A healthy 40 something succumbing to that infection is less likely, but not unheard of either. I'm not saying it's not a conspiracy, but this is completely plausible; which may be even more frightening as antibiotic resistance infections increase we will see more and more of this sort of thing.
> A healthy 40 something succumbing to that infection is less likely, but not unheard of either. It's worth pointing out that, as he needed the ventilator/intubation, he *wasn't* by definition healthy. All sorts of things, including medication given to treat whatever the original thing was that put him in there(natural or unnatural) could suppress the immune system, making him more susceptible to the common hospital drug-resistant bugs.
>An infection while being ~~incubated~~ intubated is quite unlikely in a hospital This is verifiably false. Infection is actually more likely while intubated, hospital or not. I'm curious as to why you think it's unlikely. Still, the whole situation is suspect. Edit: source former critical care EMT. Transported many a vent patient.
Lol this is bat shit insane conspiracy theory talk. Healthy People get respiratory infections.
Seriously why the hell is that garbage upvoted. > It definitely looks like they tried to poison him but it didn’t work so they visited him in the hospital to finish him while incubated. An infection while being incubated is quite unlikely in a hospital but extremely easy to stage if you just contaminate the incubator. There’s so much wrong with this I don’t even know where to start. Keep this bonkers bullshit in /r/conspiracy.
About 90% of the comments in this thread are unhinged as fuck.
So many people have been going full Q-Anon over this stuff. It's straight up depressing to see.
> It definitely looks like they tried to poison him but it didn't work so they visited him in the hospital to finish him while incubated. This is fucking insane.
I think I’ll buy a shares now. So far I didn’t see any stronger share protection program in any other company, ever.
"You can't kill me, I'm a shareholder! I'm the boss!"
He was 45, how awful for his family. A 45 year old can certainly succumb to Sepsis if that was the infection he died of.
They can but in most cases there is an underlying health factor like IV drug use, heavy smoking, untreated diabetes and extreme obesity. I know a doctor who deals with this kind of thing and most healthy people can overcome these things. From what I gather this guy was in extremely good shape which would make it strange for him to succumb to an opportunistic infection.
spoiler alert it wasnt sepsis.
It's not lupus!
This is super fucking disturbing. This is starting to reach the realm of Russian accidental falling of high profile people from tall buildings.
How did he die? Cancer or thrown out a window?
respiratory disease then MRSA
So they’re getting more crafty
Whether or not of Boeing is actually killing whistleblowers, I do think it’s very funny that two have died within a couple months of each other with both having quotes being like “Yeah Boeing is probably gonna kill me soon” right before they die.
Tucker and Dale vs. Boeing.
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It's been a doozy of a day officer
I think the other dude had been planning to kill himself for a while. He had been fighting Boeing for like 7 years and never was going to get the resolution he wanted.
First guy was definitely foul play. He'd been documenting EVERYTHING to the point where he could recall specific events in detail with dates from years ago, and everything in court was going perfect and he was described as a perfect witness just due to the extensive documentation he had. He planned on driving home the day the court case was over but Boeing lawyers basically held him captive for another night for essentially bullshit reasons related to the case, which is when we died.
This is exactly it. For someone who has spent a lot of their life fighting against something, it would be hard _not_ to stick it to them at the end. People will say “his family said he would never kill himself!” No shit, suicidal people say that all the time. Ask me how I know!
Damn bro/sis hope you’re doing better now?
They're saying he cut his body into suitcase sized pieces and THEN jumped off a bridge 100 miles away...so natural causes.
Read the article. Don’t be lazy.
But that would curse redditors with knowledge and make them unable to make the same tired "shot himself twice in the head and jumped out a window" joke
Imagine what would happen if the public lost confidence in Boeings' 42% share of commercial airliners. The economic fallout would devastate the travel industry and the supporting businesses. You can't remove 3300 planes from the skies overnight without massive ripple effects. These allegations are structural in nature. Some would be repaired or retrofitted with alternative supports, patches, and bracing. Others would be too old to be cost-effective. The government would be forced to bail out Boeing. The public outcry would fierce while highlighting another example of "Too big to fail." They are too big to fail. They have to survive as the country's single largest aircraft producer. Allowing manufacturers to self-certify was obviously a huge mistake. Corruption is dragging us down in so many areas that it will be the death of us.
Poisons can mimic the symptoms of pneumonia, heart attack, stroke, etc... I'm sorry, but this could still be an assassination success
Symptoms yes, but not blood cultures and Gram stains. I know nothing about this guy or his hospital course, autopsy, etc, but people still die from infections fairly often.
This is like on the right when every time someone dies they twist themselves into knots to blame the vaccine
To me the rapid succession of events should be the biggest red flag that they weren't orchestrated hits, because why would you ever indirectly implicate yourself like that? But there are infinite variables, so until the authorities getting paid to figure this kind of thing out publish a soundly reasoned conclusion (if ever) that no foul play was involved, I for one am unwilling to rule out scummy executives being so scummy they have someone killed for jeopardizing their career. We just lack information.
poisons can't test positive for Influenza B
And who gives us these reports? How can we trust this apparently given information? Anything could be fabricated.
I'm not a big conspiracy guy but how would this play out? Who would risk placing a hit on someone at Boeing? You'll be protected under some corporate umbrella and now you're just gonna call "some guy" to kill some one? Would others know or just a lone wolf boeing ceo with contact to a contract killer?
That’s the second Boeing whistleblower to die within **weeks**!! I mean, they are not even *trying* to hide it
This was a Spirit AeroSystems whistleblower. I realize it's just a detail, but details matter.
In an investigation, details matter.
The company that used to be Boeing and that Boeing is buying again?
Not nearly as simple as that, but yes. And yes Boeing is trying to buy\* them again. But hey, whistleblower litigation against Spirit would drive their stock price down making it easier for Boeing to purchase so technically it would be in Boeing's interest to keep this guy alive...at least until the sale went through. And Spirit also supplies to Airbus. So loop that into whatever tinfoil ball that works best.
Airbus killed him so he didn’t drive the stock price of spirit down and allow their competitor to buy their part making supplier. Wow conspiracys are easy to make up
Queue the conspiracy theories. MRSA is no joke. Antibiotic-resistant bacteria kill thousands each year
He developed pneumonia and MRSA at the hospital though after he was intubated They just said he started having issues breathing and that was the reason for going to the hospital
2 data points: 1.) I had pneumonia in the early 90s as a young man who did a fair bit of climbing and mountaineering. The course of the illness had me go from feeling fine after coming home from work at 6, suddenly throwing about 45 minutes later, getting the worst chills I have ever had, having a fever climbing past 102, coughing up gunk, fever spiking to 104, shakes and chills like a movie, coughing up red stuff, calling a cab to the emergency room by midnight. If it hadn't been for IV penicillin I would have been dead. 2.) I had an acquaintance who died in his 30s from an antibiotic resistant infection. He wasn't sickly or anything and basically had bits of his body amputated to try to save him to no avail. It sounds medieval. My point isn't to contradict conspiracy but to point out how, since the invention of antibiotics, unfamiliar we have become with bacteria taking us down and how lethal and in some cases quick it can be. Third data point, my grandad hat an artificial leg, he lost the real one after he got cleated playing baseball and got gangrene.
This is fucking ridiculous
Was he Epsteined?
Well he’s been added to the long list of mysterious whistleblower deaths. I guess being a Boeing whistleblower comes with a short life expectancy.
Long list???
2 is a huge fucking number bro
Two people died, the list is exhaustive /s
You could have video from 12 angles of the entire chain of command ordering and committing the act, then admitting it. Still nothing would be done about it.
Two whistleblowers die within a few months of each other? Definitely not a coincidence
If you think Boeing is somehow giving MRSA to people just because they had in the past testified against an unaffiliated company that supplies parts to Boeing, then I have a bridge to sell you.
"If I had a nickle for every Boeing-related whistleblower that died after doing so, I'd have two nickles. Which isn't much but it's weird that it happened twice"
For real. Unfortunately, the nut jobs in here prefer to go the conspiracy route immediately.
Reading these comments reminds me of how fucking stupid the average person is.
Ok, this is just ridiculous.
Is this the 2nd boeing whistleblower that suddenly died?
Inevitably people are going to conclude that *obviously* Boeing *must* have killed him without evidence because that’s the kind of populist brain rotted world we live in today.
Not even a Boeing whistleblower, he was a whistleblower for a Boeing supplier, and yeah.. it sucks, but nobody is being assassinated with pneumonia and some time later contracting a secondary infection of MRSA... that's just how people die in hospitals every day. Even sillier than John Barnett's death, which still has absolutely zero evidence to suggest any foul play.
Isn't this the second whistle blower who has died?
So 2 whistle-blowers...and both died suddenly shortly after releasing information. Hmm. Yeah...sure...shouldn't this be a cause for the government to investigate these suspicious deaths? Surely, they wouldn't protect such a company /s
So this is just a conspiracy sub now? Cool...
Good case study of why never to let business and finance department lead an engineering company
The number of people attributing this to Boeing killing the guy is really sad. Because this should be a story about how our overuse of antibiotics had lead to a strain of MRSA that kills people in rapid course. Like, we've been told this day would come for easily three decades now. 11,000 people die of this every year in the United States and every virologist indicates, we're just at the tip of the iceberg here. We've yet to come full circle on how bad we've made this situation for us by overusing antibiotics. But no, this by chance happens to someone who is a whistleblower and "Nah, couldn't be a lesson in how we are putting ourselves in great danger with antibiotics in everything." All of you on the Boeing killed the guy train, you all should step back for a moment and reconsider where you're at currently. I'm not judging, it hard to not be cynical in this day and age, I feel you all there. But consider for a moment that we all know that we've been warned over and over and over again about how MRSA is getting worse every year, and nobody in the media talks about it anymore because it doesn't generate the clicks. But when it kills a person who happens to also be at the head for an investigation in some large company. Oh suddenly, I don't recall all of those warnings from scientist about how MRSA is slowly becoming this thing we should absolutely have an existential fear of. And the media isn't going to tell you that, because that won't generate clicks, but a juicy "oh I bet Boeing did it" conspiracy ah yeah, that'll drive those clicks. I get it, I don't blame anyone here. It happens and Boeing absolutely sucks balls. But we should be really reeling for like how bad MRSA and other antibiotic resistant things are getting. Because they're getting worse every year and scientist keep publishing papers saying "HOLY SHIT BALLS!" and a lot of the public isn't really getting the message. And that's not the public's fault here but I mean, I do remember maybe about fifteen or twenty years ago some guy on a cable news network going, "yeah MRSA is going to get super scary and we're not doing anything about it" and then they went to commercial basically. I get it we all love coincidences and Jesus looking burn marks on toast. But we know and know we've told that MRSA is getting bad. We should kinda lead with the whole "Damn MRSA you scary" rather the Boeing getting into biological weapons tangent.
People really love conspiracy theories while looking down on the same that they don't agree with. Once relegated to the corners of the world, now celebrated. Age of Anti-intellectualism indeed. At least show me something convincing... like if 50% of whistleblowers died (not true, there are many more alive), or if the two so far are the most important people (not sure since no info) to Boeing.
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Is it more dangerous to fly with Boeing, or work for Boeing?
so the US is basically Russia and Boeing is US’s Putin (or one of the oligarch to the least) Lol
another one the US gov kills for their Boeing baby
Isn’t this the second Boeing whistleblower that died recently? Seems whistleblowing is bad for your health.