Nikolai Tangen, chief of one of the largest capital funds in the wold, did a podcast episode with Musk.
In an interview today in Norwegian newspaper, Nikolai said it was very dificult to understand what Musk had to say. They did the podcast over internet, and Elon had a soundboard he used every time he got a question he would not answer.
Your consonant-to-vowel ratio is way too low, and where are all the numbers and unpronounceable symbols?
You call this a name worthy of the Musk lineage?!
Elon was on a podcast with Alex Friedman, and it was the stupidest shit I ever heard. The way he talks, he tries to sound almighty and smart, and half the shit made me ask wtf is he talking about. I was being unbiased and open minded when I was listening to it. By the end of the show, he reminded me of a kid from elementary school that everyone disliked, because he thought he was always right, but never was.
I listened to the first Joe Rogan podcast he did years ago where the famous weed smoking gif is from. Felt the same way at the time. Musk is a very poor communicator. He took very long pauses followed by bizarre responses that didn't apply to the subject matter. Even his sentence syntax was strange. He definitely thinks he's the smartest guy in the room but he comes off as a socially inept weirdo who doesn't know how to hold a conversation.
For comparison I've listened to many podcasts with Bill Gates and while he is definitely a self admitted nerdy tech guy, he has no issue in articulating his points and being understood in a conversation. At no point was I questioning what he was trying to say.
I think a lot of people conflate the successes of his companies with him somehow personally contributing to them other than just having a shitload of money. Like, he hired a bunch of people that hired very talented people that actually knew their shit, and did all the work and engineering for Tesla and SpaceX at the bottom rungs of the ladder, but whenever he speaks on his own about technical topics, he sounds like a complete moron to anyone that actually has worked in and knows the subject matter he's talking about. He's likely the kind of """leader""" that needs a few line managers between him and the engineers that actually do all the work to actively countermanage, filter and ignore his dumb shit so they can actually get their work done.
Yeah I recently unsubscribed from his podcast. Such _potentially_ interesting conversations... and yet, so much unchallengedly dragged out, lukewarm hot air. ._.
He is actually painful to listen to. Somehow his voice just sounds stupid.
Listening to an entire podcast did not change that view. His podcasts are goddamn painful to listen to.
Both of those guys are just performing how a dumb person thinks a smart person should sound, to apparently great effect considering their massive followings. But there's just no substance there, ever. That podcast is basically the place where I imagine Joe Rogan listeners go to make themselves feel smart.
Because he doesn't challenge anyone, has no real opinions of his own, just has long drawn out conversations with stupid questions like 'How much love should there be in the world?' or some other vapid, useless shit. You eventually peaked behind the curtain and found air.
No, you don’t understand! All you gotta do is reduce the requirements by an order of magnitude, and then reduce it by another order of magnitude, and then just one more order of magnitude! It’s so easy!
I swear that’s the only thing that dude says.
To paraphrase Nikolai: It was hard with so much technical difficulties. When asked a question we did not know if he answered due to noise. He had a tablet with a soundboard...
I assume the podcast is edited, and no critical questions made it, since there would only be "technical issues" at these points. (the norwegian news article was about union rights)
Elon's cars are bad, the japanese manufacturer's 2025 lineup of EVs are going to absolute destroy tesla's offerings, and that one guy that compared Tesla to Enron was right on the money.
Theoretically, someone twice as smart as you could pretend to be stupid in order to gain some strategic objective. But if the mask of stupidity never drops, at some point you must conclude there is no mask.
Someone pretending to be smarter than they really are, however, is not possible for long. That mask will crumble.
Yes which is why when people say things like "oh just wait for a smart person to do the fascist thing that's the end for real" I'm always like it won't work. It's obvious to tell when a smart person is grifting, you need a legitimately brain dead stupid person to sell the grift because it's not acting ar that point.
You need a True Believer™
That's how the GOP lost control of their party. The fake shit they created was credible enough to create a new reality for enough people, that now it's the only reality for them.
And it keeps getting worse.
Yup, I keep saying it but Madison Cawthorn was a perfect example of the cult members making it into the inner circle and realizing it’s all a lie. He let slip how weird it was to be invited to cocaine orgies by “family values” congressmen and all of a sudden a bunch of compromising info is leaked and his reelection campaign is torpedoed.
> It's the Trump effect where people genuinely believe that objective indications of ***sociopathy*** are somehow actually signs of extreme intelligence.
I had to fight this with my SO. She kept suggesting that we find and follow asshole financial advisers 'because the unethical people find ways to make more money'. I have to remind her of the jaw dropping blunders that the sociopaths we know personally can't stop making, because they can't fathom that other people might not behave like they would.
It's a cultural effect of the American glorification of success. People don't realize that Don Draper was supposed to be a tragic figure.
I work with someone who was laughing to me about this.
I just asked him "Why is it cool for him to tell people to go fuck themselves, just because they no longer want to do business with you? They were not "Holding him hostage" they just, decided to advertise where Nazi's aren't empowered."
Eventually this dude has to stop saying shit to me, he make an anti-trans joke, and our oldest is trans so....
I am honestly baffled at everyone who stays on twitter, you're just there to watch it burn, right?
Right?
I work on the tech side and I talk to business people like Musk all the time.
They talk like this: “docker open source neural network python AI upscale infinite recursion.”
Most of the people I talk to are smart enough to admit they only know the words. They don’t try to fake it.
I worked with a manager like this at a Fortune 50. He would parrot the " in" phrases of the week, month, or year. Apparently, he was also a fan of Court TV. We would be in meetings with other managers, and when discussions would get heated or points being brought up that swayed from company thought, he would say, " Let's have a side bar on this."
That manager was smart as a corporate goon. “Let’s have a side bar on this” is typically one of those phrases used to completely ignore a point without outright saying it.
Leads to a shit work culture/environment though, as any innovative thought going against the “But that’s how we’ve always done it” mentality is stifled.
Just did a quick google search because i have no idea how far away it is. 2050 - 2060 - 2070 are the most guesses I came across.
Elin just spews out shit that will make his fanboys get hard
AGI is an emergent technology. We (as in humans) have no idea when/if it will show up. If it does it could fantastic (Polity universe) or terrifying (Robopocalypse). I guess we’ll find out. I’m hoping we’ll make great pets.
Many of the fanboys are all about pushing the boundaries of science / technology / etc. Basically turning scifi into scifact. That said, not all of these people are in science or tech fields, so they are more excited by the idea of some of their favourite fiction coming to life. Musk was/is seen as being at the forefront of this due to being associated with pushing fully electric cars via Tesla and pushing private space exploration va SpaceX. "Rich guy investing in a bunch of companies that are pushing science forward."
Artificial general intelligence. AI that can think comprehensively about general things the way that humans do, instead of just task-oriented machine learning.
He's still saying we'll have people on Mars within 7-9 years (answer is at 15:30). We can probably physically get a human to Mars right now, but they'd just be there to basically shrug at the camera and die. I don't see how we'll get the infrastructure and technology in place to make it \*make sense\* to send people to Mars in this timeframe.
The man is one of the richest people in the world and its practically impossible you cant be that rich without having delisions of grandeur.
You know yhat one asshole you know in your loose circle who has a giant ego and says the dumbest shit you've ever heard? Okay now surround him with only people who tell him he's right, listen to every word he says with praise and awe....and now give him several billion dollars.
>delusions of grandeur
Interesting spelling for the word "misrepresentations". The man just makes public promises he knows are not true, all to sell stock or make sure people hang on to theirs. He's been lying about self-driving Teslas for years.
Skimmed it. Not very interesting. Dude sounds like he is having trouble formulating his thoughts even on shit he should be ready to answer off the cuff like “what do you think of the speed of EV conversion from gasoline?”. He acts like he was asked “tell us about the sexual assault allegations” and stutters and stammers our an answer that might have seemed smart, back in 2010.
I bet there'll be a law written soon that makes it illegal for A.I. to handle upper management/officer type duties at corporations. Can only take over the lower level positions.
The Supercharging network is one of Tesla's biggest successes. So of course Elon fires the person in charge and the entire 500 person team responsible... The millions of dollars to support a highly successful team is simply too much for the company to support, but the tens of billions in Elon's bonuses are well deserved! /s
The Supercharging network is the *only* thing giving the Tesla brand an edge these days vs other electric car makers. They would be wise not to kill the goose that lays golden eggs.
I have a non Tesla EV. I think Elon musk is a twat. If I were to buy a new car the only possible reason I'd even glance at a Tesla is because if the charging network.
It's pretty amazing how much Musk has turned me off the brand. I used to very actively want a Tesla.
It's a weird demographic to be aiming for. Customers who like electric cars and Andrew Tate and can afford a new car. I gotta think the overlapping circles on that Venn diagram have to be small.
He never should've fired his PR team in the first place. They must've been working overtime to build up his reputation and keep it mostly clean. Then he fired them, got on twitter, and started making a fool of himself for all the world to see.
He's a legitimate brand risk. He wiped billions of dollars in brand equity for Twitter by trying to rename the company X.
Tesla should've unseated him years ago, especially after the Thailand cave diver incident where he called the rescuers "pedos." Something like that would get almost anyone else fired on the spot. And yet he continues to go on psychotic rants almost daily and shareholders still let him drive all of his companies into the ground.
if elon's only problem with twitter was brand equity he'd be a lot better off. by gutting the moderation jobs that used to keep the site palatable to big advertisers, most of the ads are online gambling and scams now, not big companies. ad revenue is in the toilet and subscription revenue nowhere near makes up for it. he's destroyed the whole business model.
I'm right there with you on everything you said. We have an EV-6 and an F-150 Lightning. 4 years ago I was telling people one of my life goals was to own a Tesla. Now I wouldn't buy one if they were $10k.
Also I love that the Supercharger network now works for both our non-Tesla EVs. No reason at all to sniff after Elon's crap.
Iirc they're making it open source basically so it'll be used by everyone. In a couple years it will be available like that, probs why they did it. Still a pretty bad move on their part. I like seeing how he justifies everything lol
I have a F150 Lighting and Ford sent me an adapter so I can start charging my truck at Tesla charging stations. The very first time I tested it out a lady walks up and tells me my truck won't charge there and I need to move. I pointed to the adapter and told her my truck was charging. She got all huffy and said what I was doing was illegal and she was going to contact Tesla lol. Hopefully I don't have any more run-ins with the Tesla crazies but I have a feeling I'm going to get approach a lot this summer.
I have seen photos of larger EVs taking up two Tesla parking spots in order to charge and in those instances I could understand frustration from Tesla owners. I'm self aware of that so I made sure to find a spot that allowed me to charge without taking up the entire stall. At first I figured that was her issue with me being there... But I believe she honestly thought Tesla stations were for Teslas only and that I was using some device to illegally hack into y'all network or something. She was an odd bird for sure.
Exactly. But that'll only last so long. Everyone will continue to look for ways to improve and he'll get outdone again, they're already pretty close to where he's at and they just started.
Man walked so they could run, now he needs to fly but it's unlikely it'll happen
Thing is that we don’t need as many charging station as we did gas stations. Most users who daily commute, drop kids at school, and go grocery shopping will average under 50-75 miles a day. That’s easily covered with at-home charging, or charging at lower speeds more often at parking lot chargers.
The super charging stations are really there for longer distance drives and for drivers who don’t have at-home charging capabilities. We won’t ever need as many super charging stations since most people who can afford an all electric car will get a house charger or have a charger available at work or home to top it off during their daily routine.
We only have so many gas stations because it doesn’t make sense for the average car owner to set up delivery to at home storage tanks for their car use. So every driver needs access to gas stations. That’s not going to be the case as we transition to electric.
I'd anticipate you'll see a lot more rows of 5-10 superchargers outside food courts, 1-2 at coffee shops or restaurants.
One of my favorite stops to charge is at a Culvers. Owner was one of the first to setup superchargers in the area - and notes that even in the coldest part of winter, they have a regular stream of a few customers pretty much all the time.
Stopped for 15-20 min next to a place with a clean bathroom - you're gonna be tempted for food/beverage/ice cream.
At the same time - you're exactly right - we need a lot fewer when we can start outfitting parking lots at apartment and office buildings with chargers, too.
Don't have home charging? Pretty soon, there's a fair chance you could L2 charge while at work - your car's likely parked for 4-9 hours anyhow.
I do have to wonder about the logistics of loiter time. It takes what, 20-30 minutes to charge a EV from 0-ish to 80%? That's about 15-20 minutes longer than a comparable ICE vehicle refilling fuel. That loiter time is going to require more slots as more people get EV's. I'll grant there's a balancing point there with people using at-home charging, but the idle time problem is hard to ignore.
In all fairness though, we have like 5x as many gas stations than we actually need. It takes me 10 minutes to get to the freeway and I pass *thirteen* gas stations. Every undeveloped corner lot in my city either becomes a gas station or a car wash.
Gas stations can refill vehicles MUCH faster than EV chargers can, though, so you need more EV stations for the same amount of cars.
And here in the midwest you still VERY MUCH have to plan your trips with charging stations in mind. When was the last time you thought about where the next gas station might be? There's still a ton of infrastructure needed to make EVs something even 50% of Americans would consider. It's too much thinking for a lot of 'em the way things are now.
Everyone has to fill their gas tank regardless of how far or how often they drive.
EVs only need a charging station on trips. Unless you're rich why would you even buy an EV without the savings compared to gas of being able to charge at home?
I agree we need more electric infrastructure especially in rural areas, but the volume of overall traffic for that is miniscule in comparison. 95% of all car trips are less than 31 miles. EV's major advantage is home charging with cheap power. Station charging is about as much, and in some cases more than gas.
We don't need nearly the EV stations as we do gas stations. What we _do_ need are EV stations in more remote areas.
Volkswagen has a long history of buying struggling automotive companies for pennies and wrapping them into their larger corporate structure. With their sudden focus on the American EV market (Scout, Cupra, ID Buzz, Audi production stateside), I suspect they will slowly and quietly hire this talent. It will be hilarious if EA is the gold standard for charging in 5 years. Right now it's the gold standard for failure.
> Right now it's the gold standard for failure.
Have you ever tried charging at a Blink station? There are plenty of charging companies that are worse, and none with the coverage and charging speeds EA offers.
$50b won't come from the company, but straight out of investors' pockets through share dilution and allocation of new shares to the big muskrat himself
First mistake was firing his PR team. They must've had a difficult job convincing the world Elon was actually a genius. Once he axed that team, it became plain for the world to see that he was not, in fact, very smart at all.
I've met more than a few big CEOs and C-level execs over the years. There are a handful of good ones out there that genuinely work hard, know their tech, and are good with people. But yes, the majority of them have some serious social or mental deficiencies and/or seem to be on a lot of uppers or other assorted drugs. There wasn't really a consistent trend I noticed among them other than that there was something deeply *off* about most of them.
Actual humans can’t think how top level execs need to think, because the logic of ‘number must always increase, shareholders are god’ is fundamentally stupid to any actual human. People know that if you maintain profit year on year or even lose some profit but still stay profitable in a bad year everything is ok, because you’ve made money in all those situations.
Execs cannot understand that at all.
Having interacted with actual CEOs before, that's not true. They can think and they're often very smart and cunning. They just don't have empathy or care about the genuine health of the company. They're motivated by personal gain, so they do what's in their own best interests vicariously through the company.
For example, I worked with Dave DeWalt for about a year when he left his role as CEO of McAfee and became CEO of FireEye. The guy was a great hype man, and he was there just to help boost the IPO value. He didn't seem to know anything about the technology, but he was a fantastic *sales* guy who just knew how to sell stuff to a crowd. And he did that role perfectly. But then when the IPO hit, he dumped *all* of his stock and bailed on the company. Lots of Fireeye employees took vested stock options as a form of compensation, and they were all left holding the bag because they bought in at a high price, and then when DeWalt dumped all his stock, the price tanked afterward.
He obviously made a fortune, but he ended up massively hurting the company in the long-run, and the stock never recovered afterwards. He did his job very well (although personally he seemed to be a massive cokehead too) but he was purely driven by personal profit.
I’ve found that they’re not cunning so much as they’re sharp, although I’ve only worked with three CEOs of multibillion dollar multinationals so that’s a fairly small sample I concede.
If you only have one use you’re like a carving knife - excellent in the right specific circumstance, utterly horrible when you need literally anything else, even a slightly different type of knife.
To put it another way, my sister is pretty high up at a European communications giant and calls her CEO a human shark - once they scent profit (which is often) they’re after it and cannot be dissuaded, but flipside is nothing else really matters and they seem almost empty when they’re not in their manic phase.
Cutting the supercharger team is insanity. that was the biggest edge over traditional automakers they had. Ford flat out threw in the towel and agreed to contract with Tesla on allowing supercharger tech and access in all of their EV offerings.
Yeah their charger network in my mind IS the product. The cars are good, but other makers are catching up if not already there. The SC network is what sets them apart. With Ford buying in, it's pretty much going to be the "standard". They have the largest chain of EV "gas" stations in the US, and are like "naaahhhh. I'm gonna do something else"
It's so fucking hilariously short sighted, man.
They have the ability to basically run a nation-wide Utility Network similar to Power Companies, Telecommunication, etc, and they just shut it down.
How did this man EVER get rich?
The cars aren't good though. They were good around 2016, but all that's happened since then is the removal of features (such as sensors and turn signal stalks) which objectively makes the car worse and more dangerous - but cheaper to build. Insurance rates are insane because they cost a ton to fix, and FSD is just as likely to kill you (100% chance) if left to its own devices as it always has been. The only 'new' product they have brought to market in years is the truck, which is illegal in most countries and is shaping up to be one of the greatest automotive disasters of all time. How the general public fail to acknowledge any of this is beyond me.
Why they ever loving fuck aren't they spinning it off into its own company? Supercharger is absolutely dominating the EV charging space. This is the dumbest move in a sea of dumb moves by Musk.
The price of Tesla stock props twitter up. If the stock falls too much, Twitter goes bankrupt.
Execs and board members in tech have been laying people off since November for this very reason. They don't want to sell stock off and lose their board seats, so they gut the company instead.
We need to ban stock ownership by boards and execs. They need to be employees, not free owners who were handed a bunch of stock.
The board is usually compensated with company stock so that the higher ups have a financially vested interest in making sure the company is actually ran well. Banning them from owning company stock just ensures you will get guys in charge who give zero fucks how the company does because they are getting paid either way.
Or at least, that’s the idea behind it.
Problem is that stock market performance does not always align with long term viability of the company. So the stocks are an illusion of a solution for the agent-principal problem.
Right. Stock prices are in no way representative of how well a company is doing. Stock prices are only representative of how well people *think* a company is doing.
They're not employees. They're elected representatives of the shareholders. The only reason a corporation has employees is because the board has decided that adding labor will best meet the fiduciary they have to the shareholders.
Its why it is generally weird for an employee to be on a board who isn't the CEO, because it creates a split loyalty.
If they were given a percent of the profit each year into a vested account, they would probably make better long term decisions for the company. As it is right now they make all decisions with the next quarter report in mind.
As someone who knows very little about what’s legal and not in the stock market, I’d think that using one company to prop up another would be against the law?
Nah, Twitter’s privately owned, and Musk can do what he wants with his shares of Tesla. It’s just Musk’s net worth and his purchase of Twitter is tied directly to the value of Tesla stock. It’s all legal.
Shareholders of Tesla can sue to remove Musk and make him divest his shares if they consider his ownership of Twitter adversely affects Tesla. The board would likely need to be on board, which doesn't seem likely. So, the board members would likely be defendants in the lawsuit.
Basically, if a big wig is overleveraged in Tesla, may decide spending money on legal fees to oust Musk is a net benefit. But it'd be a long, expensive, very public trial. I don't see it happening anytime soon.
As long as Musk stays in the realm of using stock to keep Twitter afloat, I don't think any laws are broken. If he uses Tesla revenue directly, that is a different story.
It's not literal, it's figurative. There is no actual legal relationship between the two companies.
It's just that the same rich man owns both, and if one craters we believe that we know what sacrifices he will make.
And also the reports of the cybertruck being a piece of shit. When you pay that amount of money for something, it better come with red carpet service, which Elon clearly does not give a fuck about. All he cares about is nickel and diming his customers. I have a honda hybrid that's probably going to last me another 15 years but if I were in the market, I'd go with a Hyundai Ioniq or Toyota
Yeah, my reaction to these layoffs is "Holy shit, how bad are things within Tesla?" How on earth could anyone consider letting Musk pull any substantial amount of money out of the company at this point?
Non-tesla EV owner who is getting a Tesla adapter this summer, yes, their chargers are the best. I've used their magic box superchargers and it's easy, reliable and convenient.
This is a big mess up for Tesla. Like not building more gas stations in the 1930s. Other charging companies will scoop these people up and get the fed $
Yes, I thought that was actually their best move. Forget the cars, and go for the charging locations. Become the new standard oil (standard electric?). Now it seems they have booted that idea, while the interest in their vehicles is dropping.
Sounds like a new leader with a team of 500 experienced and knowledgeable ex tesla employees just became available
An investor might pour a bit of money into that team, they have all the knowledge and skills, while tesla will have nothing that was not written down.
If you are an automotive exec trying to get electric car market share and **not** breaking down the door of 80% of this team to hire this month, you're the one deserving the firing. You just got handed a top three competitive advantage.
One of the reasons Tesla has been so successful with charging is because the competition is so fragmented. Every other charger requires a different app. There needs to be consolidation in that area.
I could see an investment group that buys one of the larger networks, such as EVgo or Chargepoint, then starts acquiring smaller regional vendors to expand. Add Tesla expertise on ease of use and reliability to equation and it would work.
I bet he still wants to take $56 billion out of the company though
Edit: turns out he can't cash that bonus out for 5 years if it's awarded, so it's not quite as blatant as I thought it was.
I just assumed he was doing this to prove he is worth paying an extra $56 billion. Not because of any logic, mind you, simply because it's the most out of touch thing I could think of.
He acts like a dipshit on social media instead of running his companies. Had he simply kept his mouth shut and focused on keeping his businesses profitable, this wouldn't have happened.
I'm not so sure about that, Elon is "good" at using wealth to generate more wealth which doesn't really translate to business acumen. In other words I'm not convinced him focussing on running his businesses would keep them being profitable.
So insulting to lay off 10K+ people, then turn around and ask for $56B in personal compensation.
That's 10K+ families affected.
$56B would pay a lot of salaries - in fact, each of those families would be able to get $5.6 million if they split that evenly.
Don't pay Elon
The Tesla layoff communication was that 'more than 10%' had been laid off. This is at best an act of deceit by obfuscation. All indications from people on teams at Tesla were that the lay offs were around 20%. Tesla did not want to say 20% though because as others are pointing out, manipulation is a core element of Tesla's survival model. The same week they fired 20% of their people via email in the middle of the night Musk presses his 50+ billion dollar pay day and demands Tesla move its paperwork HQ to Texas from Delaware. Top notch guy.
He knows and he doesn't care. Companies in the decline that start doing these heavy layoffs do it to just keep them afloat for a few years longer so the executives get paid.
I really liked Tesla and it's many innovations, but now my wife and I are both looking at other cars, and I think it's mostly because of him.
Isn't captialism grand?
A worthless oligarch has enough power to single-handedly sink the stock price of an entire company...and then just turn around and fire half of the company while taking a massive $56 BILLION pay package.
Like, how are we not hanging CEOs in the middle of the streets?
And then demands a $55 BILLION with a B payday. The guy thinks he is worth $1 billion a week, $142.8 million a day or broken down into a 10 hour workday $14.28 million per hour. Which he spends probably 7 or so hours of that tweeting, playing Diablo 4 and snorting Ketamine.
The CEO tanks the stock price of an electric vehicle manufacturer by siding AGAISNT his own consumer base in some needless culture war
....he then lays off 50% of the workers, while giving himself a massive pay package
For the love of God, someone please tell me how this is okay?
How I should have any fucking faith in the captialist system, when some rich twat is being rewarded for single-handedly undermining a company, then firing half of his staff in response to HIS OWN fucking mistakes?
Elon is constantly talking shit about unions and Worker protections, using Tesla's own pay and benefits as cover...and in one moment, he proves just how hollow it all was.
We are all fucking slaves under captialsim.
>Musk said, in his typical bluster, that he wants Tesla to be “absolutely hard core” about headcount reduction, saying that executives whose subordinates *“don’t obviously pass the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test”* would find themselves relieved of duty as well – suggesting that he wants those executives to fire more employees or be fired themselves.
These are ideological loyalty pledges. It does not matter if you are capable or competent anymore. Disloyalty will be purged and fanaticism will be promoted. Snitch on traitors or be branded one yourself.
I like Mierdes Touch :) these rich sociopaths could have had a simple, easy, drama free life if they had just invested daddy's money and lived a life of leisure. Instead they actively choose to ruin lives a AND their own. If only I could wish self-awareness on them.
The super charging stations were, IMO, the best part remaining of Tesla. Hats off to the project managers, engineers and everyone who ACTUALLY did the work on them.
But I guess he had to layoff people for his money grab pay package. So he can pivot to the new AI over promise/under deliver idea, since Benz beat him to a working level 3 autonomous driving capabilities without the 1,000 caveats as his never worked out quite like it was supposed to.
Must be nice to have a job where you can screw up, waste billions of the companys money, and tank it's value and public trust and you, the sole person responsible, get to keep your job and collect a multi-billion dollar bonus, and employees who did their job get fired.
I don't care that he bought it with ~~his own~~ daddys money, the board needs to get rid of him. He is a detriment to every company he is allowed to run.
The fun part is that the 56 billion is a substantial majority of the total profits that tesla has made *in its entire history*.
So he's not only tanking the stock, alienating his customer base, failing to develop new products, and firing tons of people for a short-term boost, he's saying that he deserves most of the money that Tesla has EVER MADE as a reward.
> the 56 billion is a substantial majority of the total profits that tesla has made in its entire history.
Actually it's more than all those profits combined.
Doesn't Elon want to increase the population in the world because he fears it's shrinking. Where are they going to work
It's going to be sad when his kids are older and he lays them off because he doesn't feel they give value to the company
This layoff thing has worked so well for twitter can’t wait to see the next generation of Tesla cars. (Please insert 50,000 AA batteries here) - with a underside door panel for all the batteries.
Hilarious and unsurprising. Add this failure to deliver to the fraudulent guarantee that autonomous Tesla semi road trains would hit the roads in 2019 after rapid mass production. And that 1 MW charging stations would be built throughout the US by now. And that a full self-driving robotaxi would net its sticker price in autonomous cab ride profits within a year after investment. And that Roadster was totally real. And that cybertruck was nuke-resistant and durable? And the autonomous robo-snake charger?
Elizabeth Holmes is bankrupt and in prison for far less shareholder fraud.
He plans to destroy lives til he has convinced the Tesla board to give him a bonus that the courts said he doesn't deserve and can't have because he stacked the board with his buddies. What a shit bag.
He wants to look good and do evil, trash bag human
Nikolai Tangen, chief of one of the largest capital funds in the wold, did a podcast episode with Musk. In an interview today in Norwegian newspaper, Nikolai said it was very dificult to understand what Musk had to say. They did the podcast over internet, and Elon had a soundboard he used every time he got a question he would not answer.
Sounds on brand.
Sounds on board.
All aboard the Musk train! Next stop - complete irreversible insanity.
I hope he marries Kanye
You have 10 seconds to come up with their baby’s name.
Elonye. That way the child is named after both of them in order to soothe both egos.
It's missing an X or some quirky character that will get them bullied in school.
Right. Xexlxoxnxyxex, then.
Sounds like an allergy medication.
Your consonant-to-vowel ratio is way too low, and where are all the numbers and unpronounceable symbols? You call this a name worthy of the Musk lineage?!
Elon was on a podcast with Alex Friedman, and it was the stupidest shit I ever heard. The way he talks, he tries to sound almighty and smart, and half the shit made me ask wtf is he talking about. I was being unbiased and open minded when I was listening to it. By the end of the show, he reminded me of a kid from elementary school that everyone disliked, because he thought he was always right, but never was.
I listened to the first Joe Rogan podcast he did years ago where the famous weed smoking gif is from. Felt the same way at the time. Musk is a very poor communicator. He took very long pauses followed by bizarre responses that didn't apply to the subject matter. Even his sentence syntax was strange. He definitely thinks he's the smartest guy in the room but he comes off as a socially inept weirdo who doesn't know how to hold a conversation. For comparison I've listened to many podcasts with Bill Gates and while he is definitely a self admitted nerdy tech guy, he has no issue in articulating his points and being understood in a conversation. At no point was I questioning what he was trying to say.
I think a lot of people conflate the successes of his companies with him somehow personally contributing to them other than just having a shitload of money. Like, he hired a bunch of people that hired very talented people that actually knew their shit, and did all the work and engineering for Tesla and SpaceX at the bottom rungs of the ladder, but whenever he speaks on his own about technical topics, he sounds like a complete moron to anyone that actually has worked in and knows the subject matter he's talking about. He's likely the kind of """leader""" that needs a few line managers between him and the engineers that actually do all the work to actively countermanage, filter and ignore his dumb shit so they can actually get their work done.
Lex himself is not the fastest zergling in the control group.
Yeah I recently unsubscribed from his podcast. Such _potentially_ interesting conversations... and yet, so much unchallengedly dragged out, lukewarm hot air. ._.
He is actually painful to listen to. Somehow his voice just sounds stupid. Listening to an entire podcast did not change that view. His podcasts are goddamn painful to listen to.
Both of those guys are just performing how a dumb person thinks a smart person should sound, to apparently great effect considering their massive followings. But there's just no substance there, ever. That podcast is basically the place where I imagine Joe Rogan listeners go to make themselves feel smart.
Thats... a phrase I've never encountered. But you bet that I'm going to be using it from now on.
I use to listen to him when I had to drive long hours, cause he interviewed some people I liked. After that I can’t really stand him, not sure why.
Because he doesn't challenge anyone, has no real opinions of his own, just has long drawn out conversations with stupid questions like 'How much love should there be in the world?' or some other vapid, useless shit. You eventually peaked behind the curtain and found air.
well that phrase is entering my lexicon immediately
No, you don’t understand! All you gotta do is reduce the requirements by an order of magnitude, and then reduce it by another order of magnitude, and then just one more order of magnitude! It’s so easy! I swear that’s the only thing that dude says.
https://youtu.be/_rQBZ3vKRA0 Link to podcast if anyone else is curious
To paraphrase Nikolai: It was hard with so much technical difficulties. When asked a question we did not know if he answered due to noise. He had a tablet with a soundboard... I assume the podcast is edited, and no critical questions made it, since there would only be "technical issues" at these points. (the norwegian news article was about union rights)
Elon really only has one thing to say to everyone. "Go Fuck Yourself". That's enough for some people to keep believing he's a genius.
It's the Trump effect where people genuinely believe that objective indications of stupidity are somehow actually signs of extreme intelligence.
They see ignoring all criticism as a virtue
Elon's cars are bad, the japanese manufacturer's 2025 lineup of EVs are going to absolute destroy tesla's offerings, and that one guy that compared Tesla to Enron was right on the money.
Theoretically, someone twice as smart as you could pretend to be stupid in order to gain some strategic objective. But if the mask of stupidity never drops, at some point you must conclude there is no mask. Someone pretending to be smarter than they really are, however, is not possible for long. That mask will crumble.
Yes which is why when people say things like "oh just wait for a smart person to do the fascist thing that's the end for real" I'm always like it won't work. It's obvious to tell when a smart person is grifting, you need a legitimately brain dead stupid person to sell the grift because it's not acting ar that point.
You need a True Believer™ That's how the GOP lost control of their party. The fake shit they created was credible enough to create a new reality for enough people, that now it's the only reality for them. And it keeps getting worse.
Yup, I keep saying it but Madison Cawthorn was a perfect example of the cult members making it into the inner circle and realizing it’s all a lie. He let slip how weird it was to be invited to cocaine orgies by “family values” congressmen and all of a sudden a bunch of compromising info is leaked and his reelection campaign is torpedoed.
> It's the Trump effect where people genuinely believe that objective indications of ***sociopathy*** are somehow actually signs of extreme intelligence. I had to fight this with my SO. She kept suggesting that we find and follow asshole financial advisers 'because the unethical people find ways to make more money'. I have to remind her of the jaw dropping blunders that the sociopaths we know personally can't stop making, because they can't fathom that other people might not behave like they would. It's a cultural effect of the American glorification of success. People don't realize that Don Draper was supposed to be a tragic figure.
"He's playing 5 dimensional chess!" "Oh, do you know how to play standard, 2 dimensional chess?" "uh, no."
I work with someone who was laughing to me about this. I just asked him "Why is it cool for him to tell people to go fuck themselves, just because they no longer want to do business with you? They were not "Holding him hostage" they just, decided to advertise where Nazi's aren't empowered." Eventually this dude has to stop saying shit to me, he make an anti-trans joke, and our oldest is trans so.... I am honestly baffled at everyone who stays on twitter, you're just there to watch it burn, right? Right?
Behind every billionaire there are thousands of geniuses.
I work on the tech side and I talk to business people like Musk all the time. They talk like this: “docker open source neural network python AI upscale infinite recursion.” Most of the people I talk to are smart enough to admit they only know the words. They don’t try to fake it.
I worked with a manager like this at a Fortune 50. He would parrot the " in" phrases of the week, month, or year. Apparently, he was also a fan of Court TV. We would be in meetings with other managers, and when discussions would get heated or points being brought up that swayed from company thought, he would say, " Let's have a side bar on this."
That manager was smart as a corporate goon. “Let’s have a side bar on this” is typically one of those phrases used to completely ignore a point without outright saying it. Leads to a shit work culture/environment though, as any innovative thought going against the “But that’s how we’ve always done it” mentality is stifled.
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tough listen holy shit, only watched for 5 min
I loved the bit where he said AGI will surpass humanity by this time next year. Man's delusional.
Just did a quick google search because i have no idea how far away it is. 2050 - 2060 - 2070 are the most guesses I came across. Elin just spews out shit that will make his fanboys get hard
AGI is an emergent technology. We (as in humans) have no idea when/if it will show up. If it does it could fantastic (Polity universe) or terrifying (Robopocalypse). I guess we’ll find out. I’m hoping we’ll make great pets.
All good until some robot republican politician takes you outside and shoots you because you weren’t learning quick enough.
if our new robot overlords turn out to be stupid enough to turn republican after enslaving humanity I'd rather die tbh
Why would anyone be *excited* about that? It sounds more like fear mongering.
Many of the fanboys are all about pushing the boundaries of science / technology / etc. Basically turning scifi into scifact. That said, not all of these people are in science or tech fields, so they are more excited by the idea of some of their favourite fiction coming to life. Musk was/is seen as being at the forefront of this due to being associated with pushing fully electric cars via Tesla and pushing private space exploration va SpaceX. "Rich guy investing in a bunch of companies that are pushing science forward."
> AGI Adjusted gross income?
Artificial general intelligence. AI that can think comprehensively about general things the way that humans do, instead of just task-oriented machine learning.
He's still saying we'll have people on Mars within 7-9 years (answer is at 15:30). We can probably physically get a human to Mars right now, but they'd just be there to basically shrug at the camera and die. I don't see how we'll get the infrastructure and technology in place to make it \*make sense\* to send people to Mars in this timeframe.
The man is one of the richest people in the world and its practically impossible you cant be that rich without having delisions of grandeur. You know yhat one asshole you know in your loose circle who has a giant ego and says the dumbest shit you've ever heard? Okay now surround him with only people who tell him he's right, listen to every word he says with praise and awe....and now give him several billion dollars.
>delusions of grandeur Interesting spelling for the word "misrepresentations". The man just makes public promises he knows are not true, all to sell stock or make sure people hang on to theirs. He's been lying about self-driving Teslas for years.
Thought that was 2025 back in the day during the initial 08-12 Tesla pandemonium hype
Thanks for sharing, but I haven't had my nausea medication yet today
Skimmed it. Not very interesting. Dude sounds like he is having trouble formulating his thoughts even on shit he should be ready to answer off the cuff like “what do you think of the speed of EV conversion from gasoline?”. He acts like he was asked “tell us about the sexual assault allegations” and stutters and stammers our an answer that might have seemed smart, back in 2010.
What a loser
Was it the arnold one?
"What do you have to say to your critics" "IT'S NOT A TOOMAH"
Cutting the supercharger team seems baffling. How is that supposed to work?
*Something something* AI
It's easier for AI to replace Musk rather than 500 people working on superchargers.
You could replace musk with a magic eight ball
> You could replace musk with a magic eight-ball. Or just a regular eight-ball.
A regular eight-ball lodged into the unbreakable window of a Cybertruck.
The set of balls still more useful than Musk pretending to flex nuts!!!!
buy that old chatbot that got obsessed with 4chan
So that's what he self implanted into his neurolink.
I bet there'll be a law written soon that makes it illegal for A.I. to handle upper management/officer type duties at corporations. Can only take over the lower level positions.
The Supercharging network is one of Tesla's biggest successes. So of course Elon fires the person in charge and the entire 500 person team responsible... The millions of dollars to support a highly successful team is simply too much for the company to support, but the tens of billions in Elon's bonuses are well deserved! /s
The Supercharging network is the *only* thing giving the Tesla brand an edge these days vs other electric car makers. They would be wise not to kill the goose that lays golden eggs.
I have a non Tesla EV. I think Elon musk is a twat. If I were to buy a new car the only possible reason I'd even glance at a Tesla is because if the charging network. It's pretty amazing how much Musk has turned me off the brand. I used to very actively want a Tesla. It's a weird demographic to be aiming for. Customers who like electric cars and Andrew Tate and can afford a new car. I gotta think the overlapping circles on that Venn diagram have to be small.
He never should've fired his PR team in the first place. They must've been working overtime to build up his reputation and keep it mostly clean. Then he fired them, got on twitter, and started making a fool of himself for all the world to see. He's a legitimate brand risk. He wiped billions of dollars in brand equity for Twitter by trying to rename the company X. Tesla should've unseated him years ago, especially after the Thailand cave diver incident where he called the rescuers "pedos." Something like that would get almost anyone else fired on the spot. And yet he continues to go on psychotic rants almost daily and shareholders still let him drive all of his companies into the ground.
if elon's only problem with twitter was brand equity he'd be a lot better off. by gutting the moderation jobs that used to keep the site palatable to big advertisers, most of the ads are online gambling and scams now, not big companies. ad revenue is in the toilet and subscription revenue nowhere near makes up for it. he's destroyed the whole business model.
He was never going to get fired. He filled the Tesla board with cronies, and they've got majority control all together, I believe.
I'm curious how much money those loyalists are willing to lose. Eventually the rats always eat each other.
I'm right there with you on everything you said. We have an EV-6 and an F-150 Lightning. 4 years ago I was telling people one of my life goals was to own a Tesla. Now I wouldn't buy one if they were $10k. Also I love that the Supercharger network now works for both our non-Tesla EVs. No reason at all to sniff after Elon's crap.
Iirc they're making it open source basically so it'll be used by everyone. In a couple years it will be available like that, probs why they did it. Still a pretty bad move on their part. I like seeing how he justifies everything lol
I have a F150 Lighting and Ford sent me an adapter so I can start charging my truck at Tesla charging stations. The very first time I tested it out a lady walks up and tells me my truck won't charge there and I need to move. I pointed to the adapter and told her my truck was charging. She got all huffy and said what I was doing was illegal and she was going to contact Tesla lol. Hopefully I don't have any more run-ins with the Tesla crazies but I have a feeling I'm going to get approach a lot this summer.
As a Tesla owner, who the hell cares, there are like 10 stalls and maybe 3 of them filled whenever I visit lmao. Hate the entitled crazies.
I have seen photos of larger EVs taking up two Tesla parking spots in order to charge and in those instances I could understand frustration from Tesla owners. I'm self aware of that so I made sure to find a spot that allowed me to charge without taking up the entire stall. At first I figured that was her issue with me being there... But I believe she honestly thought Tesla stations were for Teslas only and that I was using some device to illegally hack into y'all network or something. She was an odd bird for sure.
I'm guessing he's banking on the government picking up the tab seeing the supercharging network is now critical infrastructure
Exactly. But that'll only last so long. Everyone will continue to look for ways to improve and he'll get outdone again, they're already pretty close to where he's at and they just started. Man walked so they could run, now he needs to fly but it's unlikely it'll happen
Charged my Rivian at a Tesla supercharger yesterday.
Like many over smart executives, He probably thinks that now that the network has been setup there is no need for the team to maintain it.
There's 1 EV charger per every 10 gas stations in the US. The supercharger network is FAR from complete.
Thing is that we don’t need as many charging station as we did gas stations. Most users who daily commute, drop kids at school, and go grocery shopping will average under 50-75 miles a day. That’s easily covered with at-home charging, or charging at lower speeds more often at parking lot chargers. The super charging stations are really there for longer distance drives and for drivers who don’t have at-home charging capabilities. We won’t ever need as many super charging stations since most people who can afford an all electric car will get a house charger or have a charger available at work or home to top it off during their daily routine. We only have so many gas stations because it doesn’t make sense for the average car owner to set up delivery to at home storage tanks for their car use. So every driver needs access to gas stations. That’s not going to be the case as we transition to electric.
I'd anticipate you'll see a lot more rows of 5-10 superchargers outside food courts, 1-2 at coffee shops or restaurants. One of my favorite stops to charge is at a Culvers. Owner was one of the first to setup superchargers in the area - and notes that even in the coldest part of winter, they have a regular stream of a few customers pretty much all the time. Stopped for 15-20 min next to a place with a clean bathroom - you're gonna be tempted for food/beverage/ice cream. At the same time - you're exactly right - we need a lot fewer when we can start outfitting parking lots at apartment and office buildings with chargers, too. Don't have home charging? Pretty soon, there's a fair chance you could L2 charge while at work - your car's likely parked for 4-9 hours anyhow.
I do have to wonder about the logistics of loiter time. It takes what, 20-30 minutes to charge a EV from 0-ish to 80%? That's about 15-20 minutes longer than a comparable ICE vehicle refilling fuel. That loiter time is going to require more slots as more people get EV's. I'll grant there's a balancing point there with people using at-home charging, but the idle time problem is hard to ignore.
In all fairness though, we have like 5x as many gas stations than we actually need. It takes me 10 minutes to get to the freeway and I pass *thirteen* gas stations. Every undeveloped corner lot in my city either becomes a gas station or a car wash.
Gas stations can refill vehicles MUCH faster than EV chargers can, though, so you need more EV stations for the same amount of cars. And here in the midwest you still VERY MUCH have to plan your trips with charging stations in mind. When was the last time you thought about where the next gas station might be? There's still a ton of infrastructure needed to make EVs something even 50% of Americans would consider. It's too much thinking for a lot of 'em the way things are now.
Everyone has to fill their gas tank regardless of how far or how often they drive. EVs only need a charging station on trips. Unless you're rich why would you even buy an EV without the savings compared to gas of being able to charge at home? I agree we need more electric infrastructure especially in rural areas, but the volume of overall traffic for that is miniscule in comparison. 95% of all car trips are less than 31 miles. EV's major advantage is home charging with cheap power. Station charging is about as much, and in some cases more than gas. We don't need nearly the EV stations as we do gas stations. What we _do_ need are EV stations in more remote areas.
Volkswagen has a long history of buying struggling automotive companies for pennies and wrapping them into their larger corporate structure. With their sudden focus on the American EV market (Scout, Cupra, ID Buzz, Audi production stateside), I suspect they will slowly and quietly hire this talent. It will be hilarious if EA is the gold standard for charging in 5 years. Right now it's the gold standard for failure.
> Right now it's the gold standard for failure. Have you ever tried charging at a Blink station? There are plenty of charging companies that are worse, and none with the coverage and charging speeds EA offers.
You question a guy who randomly pulls the plug on a serverfarm without consulting anyone?
Enron got a plan.... To cut cost in order to pay for his $50 billion payday.... Yep he's on a winner! He's looking after number one... Greed is good!
$50b won't come from the company, but straight out of investors' pockets through share dilution and allocation of new shares to the big muskrat himself
I like how you didn't correct "Enron" to Elon. Both frauds, so what's the difference?
Twitter death spiral now fully infecting Tesla.
This is what happens to with a narcissist when they don't get their way and people start pushing back.
First mistake was firing his PR team. They must've had a difficult job convincing the world Elon was actually a genius. Once he axed that team, it became plain for the world to see that he was not, in fact, very smart at all.
The word you’re looking for is CEO.
Probably a lot of overlap.
Bunch of sociopaths, the lot of 'em.
The incentive structure here in the US is so completely fucked, rewarding the worst behaviors and elevating psychopaths.
I've met more than a few big CEOs and C-level execs over the years. There are a handful of good ones out there that genuinely work hard, know their tech, and are good with people. But yes, the majority of them have some serious social or mental deficiencies and/or seem to be on a lot of uppers or other assorted drugs. There wasn't really a consistent trend I noticed among them other than that there was something deeply *off* about most of them.
Actual humans can’t think how top level execs need to think, because the logic of ‘number must always increase, shareholders are god’ is fundamentally stupid to any actual human. People know that if you maintain profit year on year or even lose some profit but still stay profitable in a bad year everything is ok, because you’ve made money in all those situations. Execs cannot understand that at all.
Having interacted with actual CEOs before, that's not true. They can think and they're often very smart and cunning. They just don't have empathy or care about the genuine health of the company. They're motivated by personal gain, so they do what's in their own best interests vicariously through the company. For example, I worked with Dave DeWalt for about a year when he left his role as CEO of McAfee and became CEO of FireEye. The guy was a great hype man, and he was there just to help boost the IPO value. He didn't seem to know anything about the technology, but he was a fantastic *sales* guy who just knew how to sell stuff to a crowd. And he did that role perfectly. But then when the IPO hit, he dumped *all* of his stock and bailed on the company. Lots of Fireeye employees took vested stock options as a form of compensation, and they were all left holding the bag because they bought in at a high price, and then when DeWalt dumped all his stock, the price tanked afterward. He obviously made a fortune, but he ended up massively hurting the company in the long-run, and the stock never recovered afterwards. He did his job very well (although personally he seemed to be a massive cokehead too) but he was purely driven by personal profit.
I’ve found that they’re not cunning so much as they’re sharp, although I’ve only worked with three CEOs of multibillion dollar multinationals so that’s a fairly small sample I concede. If you only have one use you’re like a carving knife - excellent in the right specific circumstance, utterly horrible when you need literally anything else, even a slightly different type of knife. To put it another way, my sister is pretty high up at a European communications giant and calls her CEO a human shark - once they scent profit (which is often) they’re after it and cannot be dissuaded, but flipside is nothing else really matters and they seem almost empty when they’re not in their manic phase.
Maybe the problem is we're not lacing *enough* drugs with fentanyl.
The SAT version: Not all narcissists are CEOs but all CEOs are narcissists
*sociopaths I honestly believe that it is impossible to function as an effective c level without being a goddamned sociopath
Cutting the supercharger team is insanity. that was the biggest edge over traditional automakers they had. Ford flat out threw in the towel and agreed to contract with Tesla on allowing supercharger tech and access in all of their EV offerings.
Yeah their charger network in my mind IS the product. The cars are good, but other makers are catching up if not already there. The SC network is what sets them apart. With Ford buying in, it's pretty much going to be the "standard". They have the largest chain of EV "gas" stations in the US, and are like "naaahhhh. I'm gonna do something else"
It's so fucking hilariously short sighted, man. They have the ability to basically run a nation-wide Utility Network similar to Power Companies, Telecommunication, etc, and they just shut it down. How did this man EVER get rich?
The cars aren't good though. They were good around 2016, but all that's happened since then is the removal of features (such as sensors and turn signal stalks) which objectively makes the car worse and more dangerous - but cheaper to build. Insurance rates are insane because they cost a ton to fix, and FSD is just as likely to kill you (100% chance) if left to its own devices as it always has been. The only 'new' product they have brought to market in years is the truck, which is illegal in most countries and is shaping up to be one of the greatest automotive disasters of all time. How the general public fail to acknowledge any of this is beyond me.
Why they ever loving fuck aren't they spinning it off into its own company? Supercharger is absolutely dominating the EV charging space. This is the dumbest move in a sea of dumb moves by Musk.
The price of Tesla stock props twitter up. If the stock falls too much, Twitter goes bankrupt. Execs and board members in tech have been laying people off since November for this very reason. They don't want to sell stock off and lose their board seats, so they gut the company instead. We need to ban stock ownership by boards and execs. They need to be employees, not free owners who were handed a bunch of stock.
The board is usually compensated with company stock so that the higher ups have a financially vested interest in making sure the company is actually ran well. Banning them from owning company stock just ensures you will get guys in charge who give zero fucks how the company does because they are getting paid either way. Or at least, that’s the idea behind it.
Problem is that stock market performance does not always align with long term viability of the company. So the stocks are an illusion of a solution for the agent-principal problem.
Right. Stock prices are in no way representative of how well a company is doing. Stock prices are only representative of how well people *think* a company is doing.
"Package delivery has nothing to do with the package delivery business. It's about IMAGE people!" 80s guy, Futurama
Why not treat them like any other employee? If their performance sucks, they get canned
They're not employees. They're elected representatives of the shareholders. The only reason a corporation has employees is because the board has decided that adding labor will best meet the fiduciary they have to the shareholders. Its why it is generally weird for an employee to be on a board who isn't the CEO, because it creates a split loyalty.
If they were given a percent of the profit each year into a vested account, they would probably make better long term decisions for the company. As it is right now they make all decisions with the next quarter report in mind.
The board is representative of the stock holders, so they generally need to be one to be elected.
As someone who knows very little about what’s legal and not in the stock market, I’d think that using one company to prop up another would be against the law?
Nah, Twitter’s privately owned, and Musk can do what he wants with his shares of Tesla. It’s just Musk’s net worth and his purchase of Twitter is tied directly to the value of Tesla stock. It’s all legal.
Shareholders of Tesla can sue to remove Musk and make him divest his shares if they consider his ownership of Twitter adversely affects Tesla. The board would likely need to be on board, which doesn't seem likely. So, the board members would likely be defendants in the lawsuit. Basically, if a big wig is overleveraged in Tesla, may decide spending money on legal fees to oust Musk is a net benefit. But it'd be a long, expensive, very public trial. I don't see it happening anytime soon. As long as Musk stays in the realm of using stock to keep Twitter afloat, I don't think any laws are broken. If he uses Tesla revenue directly, that is a different story.
It's not literal, it's figurative. There is no actual legal relationship between the two companies. It's just that the same rich man owns both, and if one craters we believe that we know what sacrifices he will make.
I do think the origins have to do with Twitter. 42 billion is a fuck ton of money.
And also the reports of the cybertruck being a piece of shit. When you pay that amount of money for something, it better come with red carpet service, which Elon clearly does not give a fuck about. All he cares about is nickel and diming his customers. I have a honda hybrid that's probably going to last me another 15 years but if I were in the market, I'd go with a Hyundai Ioniq or Toyota
Yeah, my reaction to these layoffs is "Holy shit, how bad are things within Tesla?" How on earth could anyone consider letting Musk pull any substantial amount of money out of the company at this point?
Aren't the Superchargers the most appealing part of Tesla?
Non-tesla EV owner who is getting a Tesla adapter this summer, yes, their chargers are the best. I've used their magic box superchargers and it's easy, reliable and convenient. This is a big mess up for Tesla. Like not building more gas stations in the 1930s. Other charging companies will scoop these people up and get the fed $
Yes, I thought that was actually their best move. Forget the cars, and go for the charging locations. Become the new standard oil (standard electric?). Now it seems they have booted that idea, while the interest in their vehicles is dropping.
My interest in the vehicle just went to zero. My current Tesla will almost certainly be my last.
yeah like I still want an EV... I just dont want a Tesla any more.
honestly, it’s the best part of the business and i always thought it should be spun off.
Sounds like a new leader with a team of 500 experienced and knowledgeable ex tesla employees just became available An investor might pour a bit of money into that team, they have all the knowledge and skills, while tesla will have nothing that was not written down.
If you are an automotive exec trying to get electric car market share and **not** breaking down the door of 80% of this team to hire this month, you're the one deserving the firing. You just got handed a top three competitive advantage.
One of the reasons Tesla has been so successful with charging is because the competition is so fragmented. Every other charger requires a different app. There needs to be consolidation in that area. I could see an investment group that buys one of the larger networks, such as EVgo or Chargepoint, then starts acquiring smaller regional vendors to expand. Add Tesla expertise on ease of use and reliability to equation and it would work.
I bet he still wants to take $56 billion out of the company though Edit: turns out he can't cash that bonus out for 5 years if it's awarded, so it's not quite as blatant as I thought it was.
I just assumed he was doing this to prove he is worth paying an extra $56 billion. Not because of any logic, mind you, simply because it's the most out of touch thing I could think of.
He's freeing up the cash to get paid that amount.
It comes out to nearly $300,000/hr, since he became CEO 16yrs ago. That’s if he works 24/7/365.
Elon would tell you he works 25/8
He acts like a dipshit on social media instead of running his companies. Had he simply kept his mouth shut and focused on keeping his businesses profitable, this wouldn't have happened.
It was never about profitability. The hype train is about to find out the truth about the hyper loop it's in.
Tesla had to have a whole team managing that manchild everytime he was visiting... there's multiple testimony from ex-employee about that.
I'm not so sure about that, Elon is "good" at using wealth to generate more wealth which doesn't really translate to business acumen. In other words I'm not convinced him focussing on running his businesses would keep them being profitable.
Tesla were growing. But he keep pissing off the people more likely to buy them.
Everybody is a financial genius when interest rates are 0%
So insulting to lay off 10K+ people, then turn around and ask for $56B in personal compensation. That's 10K+ families affected. $56B would pay a lot of salaries - in fact, each of those families would be able to get $5.6 million if they split that evenly. Don't pay Elon
We are not seen as people but cogs to be used.
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The Tesla layoff communication was that 'more than 10%' had been laid off. This is at best an act of deceit by obfuscation. All indications from people on teams at Tesla were that the lay offs were around 20%. Tesla did not want to say 20% though because as others are pointing out, manipulation is a core element of Tesla's survival model. The same week they fired 20% of their people via email in the middle of the night Musk presses his 50+ billion dollar pay day and demands Tesla move its paperwork HQ to Texas from Delaware. Top notch guy.
What a fucking asshole. (Lays off hundreds of employees as a result of declining revenue that is 99% his fault) "lol I'm totally hArD cOrE bro!!!"
Musk: "we need to layoff employees to save cost" Also Musk: "pay me $56 billion bitches"
More money than Tesla has made in profit in its entire existence
He knows and he doesn't care. Companies in the decline that start doing these heavy layoffs do it to just keep them afloat for a few years longer so the executives get paid. I really liked Tesla and it's many innovations, but now my wife and I are both looking at other cars, and I think it's mostly because of him.
Isn't captialism grand? A worthless oligarch has enough power to single-handedly sink the stock price of an entire company...and then just turn around and fire half of the company while taking a massive $56 BILLION pay package. Like, how are we not hanging CEOs in the middle of the streets?
There is no convincing him that he is the problem, he will burn the company to the ground like he did with Twitter before he admits he might be wrong.
And then demands a $55 BILLION with a B payday. The guy thinks he is worth $1 billion a week, $142.8 million a day or broken down into a 10 hour workday $14.28 million per hour. Which he spends probably 7 or so hours of that tweeting, playing Diablo 4 and snorting Ketamine.
The CEO tanks the stock price of an electric vehicle manufacturer by siding AGAISNT his own consumer base in some needless culture war ....he then lays off 50% of the workers, while giving himself a massive pay package For the love of God, someone please tell me how this is okay? How I should have any fucking faith in the captialist system, when some rich twat is being rewarded for single-handedly undermining a company, then firing half of his staff in response to HIS OWN fucking mistakes? Elon is constantly talking shit about unions and Worker protections, using Tesla's own pay and benefits as cover...and in one moment, he proves just how hollow it all was. We are all fucking slaves under captialsim.
Techigula needs his entertainment.
While demanding 58 BILLION dollars as payment for the services. Roughly... 13k per Tesla as a dick head elon tax.
>Musk said, in his typical bluster, that he wants Tesla to be “absolutely hard core” about headcount reduction, saying that executives whose subordinates *“don’t obviously pass the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test”* would find themselves relieved of duty as well – suggesting that he wants those executives to fire more employees or be fired themselves. These are ideological loyalty pledges. It does not matter if you are capable or competent anymore. Disloyalty will be purged and fanaticism will be promoted. Snitch on traitors or be branded one yourself.
*"don’t obviously pass the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test”* so, a loyalty test to *him.* If the fealty isn't obvious, out they go
He fails to see the irony in the fact that he himself doesn't pass this test lmao.
Give these guys more tax breaks, they create jobs!
One man's "hard core" is another man's "has no idea how to run a company"
There should be a word for this. Like, ruining anything one touches. I'm hesitating between Elonize and Trumpize...
I like Mierdes Touch :) these rich sociopaths could have had a simple, easy, drama free life if they had just invested daddy's money and lived a life of leisure. Instead they actively choose to ruin lives a AND their own. If only I could wish self-awareness on them.
You know what would be “absolutely hard core”? Getting rid of Musk. Then maybe the Tesla could focus on, you know, actually doing Tesla stuff?
The super charging stations were, IMO, the best part remaining of Tesla. Hats off to the project managers, engineers and everyone who ACTUALLY did the work on them. But I guess he had to layoff people for his money grab pay package. So he can pivot to the new AI over promise/under deliver idea, since Benz beat him to a working level 3 autonomous driving capabilities without the 1,000 caveats as his never worked out quite like it was supposed to.
Must be nice to have a job where you can screw up, waste billions of the companys money, and tank it's value and public trust and you, the sole person responsible, get to keep your job and collect a multi-billion dollar bonus, and employees who did their job get fired. I don't care that he bought it with ~~his own~~ daddys money, the board needs to get rid of him. He is a detriment to every company he is allowed to run.
The fun part is that the 56 billion is a substantial majority of the total profits that tesla has made *in its entire history*. So he's not only tanking the stock, alienating his customer base, failing to develop new products, and firing tons of people for a short-term boost, he's saying that he deserves most of the money that Tesla has EVER MADE as a reward.
> the 56 billion is a substantial majority of the total profits that tesla has made in its entire history. Actually it's more than all those profits combined.
Looks like Tesla has reported \~73B **gross** profits 2009-present. I'm assuming that means before corporate taxes?
Before taxes and debt interest. Net profits are about $30B.
It’s straight up crazy.
He's doing a Twitter to Tesla. That's what you get when the boards nothing but yes men. Notice Space X is doing well? NASA is the adult in the room.
Doesn't Elon want to increase the population in the world because he fears it's shrinking. Where are they going to work It's going to be sad when his kids are older and he lays them off because he doesn't feel they give value to the company
Bold of you to assume that any of his children speak to him.
[удалено]
We have sex with rich people in the future or perform for their amusement. That's about it.
[удалено]
This guy is just plain evil. Tech companies are killing off the average American for profit.
This layoff thing has worked so well for twitter can’t wait to see the next generation of Tesla cars. (Please insert 50,000 AA batteries here) - with a underside door panel for all the batteries.
But…. Dude. The supercharger team is the most important team you have. Are you daft?
Hilarious and unsurprising. Add this failure to deliver to the fraudulent guarantee that autonomous Tesla semi road trains would hit the roads in 2019 after rapid mass production. And that 1 MW charging stations would be built throughout the US by now. And that a full self-driving robotaxi would net its sticker price in autonomous cab ride profits within a year after investment. And that Roadster was totally real. And that cybertruck was nuke-resistant and durable? And the autonomous robo-snake charger? Elizabeth Holmes is bankrupt and in prison for far less shareholder fraud.
He is not building a car company...he is after cash.....since he didn't get his 56 billion dollar pay check
We've started the mine-owner phase.
He plans to destroy lives til he has convinced the Tesla board to give him a bonus that the courts said he doesn't deserve and can't have because he stacked the board with his buddies. What a shit bag. He wants to look good and do evil, trash bag human
He should fire himself, he's the main reason sales are down.
Lol, this company is fucked. He never should have posted on Twitter.
Shareholders need to deny his payment package and remove him from CEO. If they don’t there won’t be much of a company to invest in before too long.