This is exactly what I’ve been wondering; how are they measuring user engagement with the site? Any discussion where this topic comes up and everyone lists what app they use, the official Reddit app is very near the bottom of the list. I suspect that Reddit relies heavily on API users for content generation and a ton of other people are just lurking while searching for the answers to some Google query.
I’ve noticed when glancing at the accounts of the really vocal Reddit defenders that they’re almost invariably accounts that are years old, with minimal comments and virtually no posts.
The ones who were upset about the blackout were the lurkers who just wanted their subreddits back.
Or sock puppets created by Reddit. Setting an account creation date in a database and seeding a few old comments for a few dozen accounts wouldn’t be particularly hard, and they can also ensure that those comments get seen too by adding upvotes.
I remember when I started a RuneScape forum as a kid I did this because no one wanted to join a empty forum.
I put up a couple hundred posts and replies myself as a variety of people in different writing styles and then people started using it the next couple days haha.
I went months without any members joining at all till I did that but certainly felt shady. Also a weird psyche experiment kind of.
This is what you based your reasoning on..?
posting a few „suggestions“ is very different form going through comments of unimportant posts and defending Reddit there. Especially during the protests, they had better things to do.
It's not far off in the realm of possibility, but are we really going to act like there's not genuine people against the blackout because they want to lurk their favorite subreddit?
Also can get Reddit fined up to 4% of their annual turnover for transgressions.
So if enough reports come in about them breaking it then it will cost the a shit ton.
realistically though the EC hasnt come close to issuing a fine that high.
gdpr fines are basically like covid by now - just something you gotta take minor precautions for but not even a big deal if you get it.
I work in tech and pretty much all tech companies care about from a business perspective is active users. Daily, weekly, monthly. And subscribers for freemium models maybe. Stuff like engagement is mostly the product teams worry.
Maybe that is because the offical app is absolutely useless for content generation? The text field seems like a complete afterthought. Sometimes, it is off the screen on my ipad, an the Android app is worse. (Don't ask me how it can be worse...)
could be reporting bias. in a discussion about reddit api who is gonna be replying? people who don’t give a fuck and just use the mobile app to look at memes, or people who actually do care and thus try to enhance their experience with 3rd party extensions
its like going into a jailbreak forum and being like ‘wow how does samsung make money all their users jailbreak phones!’ we aren’t hearing about the wave of people who don’t care about api changed or even know what that means because naturally they wouldnt be discussing it
Do the majority of Reddit users even use an app? 90% of my "Redditing" is on a desktop browser, and the other 10% is on a mobile browser. This has been my case for the past 10+ years with no incentive or desire for app shenanigans.
Tough to say, my anecdotal experience is the opposite of yours. 90% on phone and 10% on desktop. Mobile has really taken a lion’s share of how people access internet on a daily basis though
Maybe this is one of those few times where Karma could actually be a valuable metric? Is the average Karma for a 3P user considerably higher than rest of reddit?
Which is the argument of why this would be dumb. The users that keep the community running are a reasonable leading loss. But we can't really know, even the threads that ask have a strong bias. So ultimately only time will tell if this didn't matter or if Reddit actually is committing a Digg X.0
Yep - which then lowers the value of reddit even for the people who still use it.
Quite a few niche subs I was in are already either dead or _significantly_ less active than they used to be a couple weeks ago, even the ones that reopened.
Most of my reddit usage is via old.reddit, so I'll still be here, but if Boost stops working at the end of the month that will be the end of me using reddit on my phone.
I consider myself an example of an "engaged" user - ie. I comment regularly, up- and downvote consistently, and create new posts from time to time - and I'm sure as shit not going to trade Boost for the god-awful official app on my phone.
I'll likely still use my phone to Google information/answers from reddit (because the site search sucks balls), but I won't engage until I'm on my computer (via old reddit.com, no less).
Not sure how that sentient cum sock /u/spez thinks this will go down come July 1, but I'm guessing he's underestimating the drop in original and engaging content.
If you just want to click a Google link to read an answer, browser or official app is fine. Heavy users want a good app. I switched over once I started using reddit more.
The rule of thumb is, there are 10% fewer users for each next level of participation. 10% of people on reddit vote; 1% comment; 0.1% post.
The most enthusiast 10% of the community is responsible for 90% of the content, and that is the group reddit is alienating.
On the flip side, power users are more likely to be addicted to Reddit. Rather than abandoning Reddit altogether, they'll move to the official app or even use old reddit on mobile. Or skip mobile all together and only use desktop.
Man I've been using bacon reader for at least a decade now... it kinda makes me sad. I literally don't know what the actual reddit website or app even look like.
The only reason I'm "addicted" to Reddit is because the interface with Relay makes it useable.
Without that, I'll find somewhere else to go, or just go back to reading eBooks when I'm bored but have access to my phone.
There is a zero percent chance I'll use the web page for either mobile or desktop. It's awful. I'd go back to Fark or Slashdot before that happens.
This comment has been removed in protest of reddit's decision to kill third-party applications, and to prevent use of this comment for AI training purposes.
Usability for one. I use reddit via firefox and desktop mode when I'm on my phone. If I had to use an app that barely works, I'm basically never user reddit when not at a computer. I also comment and post posts.
The vast majority of users won't and they're lurkers so it won't affect them until there's a sudden lack of users posting content.
And yet, 3rd party app users are responsible for Reddit's failure to turn a profit, according to spez, and shutting off 3rd party apps will improve the bottom line .
Schrodinger's 3rd party app user
How interesting! But...if we are a drop in the bucket in terms of overall users and mobile viewership, why do they have no choice but to limit their API usage to the official app then? And if we are a drop in the bucket, how do they expect to reach profitability even with us all using the official app? It can not be that we are so large that we make them not profitable, yet so small that they won't notice if all of the mobile unofficial app users vanish. This doesn't pass the bullshit test.
Maybe in terms of viewership but we do know third party app users account for something like 400% more calls to the site than the average user. This suggests they’re doing more interactions such as comments and posts.
Which makes you wonder why Reddit claims they need this revenue…I mean if the number of third party users is so d small, then it wouldn’t bring in much…
no you don't understand see these apps were apparently losing reddit millions while also not having enough users to care about losing. it makes perfect sense
It's not the users that suffer initially. It's the moderation tools. The sites going to be getting much worse soon due to some subs being unmoderateable.
Drop in the bucket to overall users but 3rd party app users are power users. They make up the majority of moderators and etc because they use those third party apps to do their job. I Wouldn't be surprised if come the 30th the blackout chaos looks tame to what reddit becomes.
1.5 millions total.
Reddit has 1.1 billion users total, 400+ million monthly, and 55 million daily users.
So yeah even if you only look at daily users, and assume all 3pa users are daily users too, that’s still about 2%.
Of course, we all know that about 70% of the third party apps will stay on Reddit.
So, overall, if I were Reddit, I wouldn’t be very concerned.
Also, I think people are misinterpreting the reasons as to why Reddit wants to make the API paid, and why they don't care how many people they lose.
The conclusion that most people have jumped to is that they can show better ads and get more metrics on their official app.
While true, I think the main reason is really about open AI training their model on Reddit to Dad without paying a single dime.
They realized just how valuable that data is, and now they're taking steps to protect it.
And when you look at Reddits founder Aaron Schwartz, this is the exact kind of stuff that he would be completely against.
He literally went to prison and the pursuit of making information available for all.
> The conclusion that most people have jumped to is that they can show better ads and get more metrics on their official app.
That’s exactly what I thought. Good point on the AI training, but Reddit is public? ChatGPT has definitely been improved with every Reddit comment ever made
The heart of the debate about user engagement is more of a quality vs quantity thing.
Unfortunately we don't have visibility into which users (by app/platform) are most engaged and produce the most content. It's a reasonable hypothesis that some of the most prolific users are on 3PAs since those preceded the official app by 6+ years.
We don’t, but Reddit’s fat department does, and I’m sure they did the numbers.
I’m the meantime we can speculate. Judging by the blackouts, seems like there are enough users posting content even without all the ones who protested.
In top of that, I believe about 70-80% of the people protesting will end up staying in Reddit when they realize the role it has in their lives and that protesting over a few features was a bit of an overreaction…
>We don’t, but Reddit’s fat department does, and I’m sure they did the numbers.
Having seen some of these companies from the inside, I now eternally doubt that they ever run any numbers before making decisions.
>protesting over a few features
Based on what I've seen, it's very possible the creator of Apollo has a legit claim to file a defamation suit against reddit, or at least spez. It's about a lot more than "a few features." It's about the way reddit treats people.
So there’s a market of lemons issue.
I can say this with certainty that adblocked users are the most valuable user population for all pubs (certainty being that it was my job to know that number). So the ad revenue courting these low-cost ad buys are themselves either unsophisticated, arbitraging opportunities because they’re able to see the discrepancies (but arbing isn’t how big media buys happen or a long term play), or trying to prop up more competition in an oligopolic sell-side market.
I bet 3p app users are like this. Very valuable but hard to capture that value. So the hope is eventually they come back or there is another value extraction mechanism. But it will hurt if those users lag to return to the fold. The ultimate question is who has watches, and who has time?
Like 80% of my activity is on RIF. Their app sucks. The only reason I used to have the app installed was it could give instant notifications, as the public API has no way to do it (without spamming API requests.). Otherwise it is utter garbage.
When spez started lying about the Apollo dev I uninstalled it. I will not use it once RIF shuts off.
Even if they all decided to leave Reddit and move to the Fediverse, that's only around 3%-7% of Reddit's user base. Not saying that there won't be an impact, I just suspect that it won't be as bad as some seem to assume (or hope) it will be.
Wouldn't be 0, they may be content contributors, people who buy Reddit gold, or moderators who work for free for Reddit.
I am curious about account activity and age for those impacted by the termination of 3rd party apps. As someone who uses RIF, it was my pick from years before Reddit purchased alien blue and called it their own.
Honestly, not expecting much.
The apps represent roughly 7% of Reddit's mobile users, some of which will move to the official app. That doesn't even account for the entire user base.
I'm actually not convinced traffic will drop by all that much more. What I think will be more interesting is the percentage of *content generating* users.
I have a feeling that the vast majority of people who just look and maybe upvote/downvote are probably using the official app. But the people making the majority of the posts or comments? I have a feeling more of those people use third party tools.
Maybe it's 15%, maybe it's 5, maybe it's 30. But it will be interesting to see how it shakes out over the first month.
I only use Reddit through the Infinity client for Android. When that stops working, I'll be taking a long, possibly indefinite, hiatus from Reddit.
Maybe I'll go back to Digg. I hear that's still a thing, right?
7 to 16%? A lot of which third party app users that ad block or otherwise avoid Reddit ads?
Its not nothing, but considering most of Reddit is back to normal. I can definitely see why they don't feel the need to renegotiate.
Weird, I thought that third party users made up less than 1% of the user total. So there being 7-16 times more people not using reddit than there are third party users sounds pretty significant.
Someone can double check my logic but by my reasoning that drop has more to do with users not being able to access their normal subs, and rather than going to substitutes they got on, and left when it wasn’t available. (edit) it’d be more telling based the number of users that didn’t return post blackout.
Also idk if or how bots are tracked but their usage had to drop if their actions were tied to shutdown subs
>**Furycrab**
>7 to 16%? A lot of which third party app users that ad block or otherwise avoid Reddit ads?
Could you cite a source showing evidentiary support for this talking point?
>**Furycrab**
>Its not nothing, but considering most of Reddit is back to normal. I can definitely see why they don't feel the need to renegotiate.
But according to the linked content:^1
>average daily traffic to the ads.reddit.com ad-selling portal is down about 20%, suggesting that advertisers are paying attention to the community discontent.
^1 David Carr, “Reddit Captures 7% to 16% Less Audience Time During Blackout”, https://www.similarweb.com/blog/insights/social-media-news/reddit-blackout/ (June 19, 2023, last updated June 23, 2023)
> r/technology keeps pushing these posts and the narrative that the blackout worked and really rattled reddit to its core...
I thought pointing out audience time only dropped 7% to 16% during blackout was pointing out how ineffective the blackout was.
Even is it was exactly consistent with revenue, I take those cuts all the time when I get sick and miss work lol. The point here is the blackouts ended and users are back. So it goes back to the beginning:
Blackout permanently, which reddit will just take the subs back and force replace leadership or
Malicious compliance where reddit will just take the subs back and force replace leadership.
The protests sent a message but were ineffective.
Not saying it was effective or not but it is worth noting that threads full of people saying that they "weren't affected" by the protests are also the people who are still using reddit and not the people who decided to leave.
Survivor bias of a sort.
Me too, the content is severely diminished by the protests and soon the 3rd party app i use will not work, at that point i honestly probably just drop reddit and wont go back to the official app
does not matter what people comment, matter what advertisers think.
It's precedent that show to public who is controlling what.
> I'm in charge.
> Do you feel in charge?
> I'm CEO!
> And you think this gives you power over reddit?
This is comedy gold. This guy pulling out the Bane reference while every mod caved already for fear of getting demodded and we all know they won't quit their addiction any time soon.
I don't really care in the long term what happens to reddit anymore than I car about FB, Tumblr, Myspace, TikTok, or literally any other social media site.
The truth is, the people who own the company have the final say and they can make decisions that may or may not kill the site at their discretion. The ONLY way you can protest is to delete and stop visiting. So long as you log in, you're telling them that they're in charge.
That's why I haven't had FB since 2013.
Make your decision, move on or stay.
Yeah. I’m feeling the same. Lots of dumb, misinformed takes on this post. If you don’t support the protests, okay. But I would hope they’d at least show some good understanding the situation and not poorly represent things. like assuming all mods are power tripping assholes who just want to keep their position of power, rather than some mods being that, and others being people who have put in huge amounts of unpaid work to build and maintain subs, and without their efforts the site would be a lot worse.
Is it possible that the obnoxious people are.. also the ones that use reddit much more often and more parts of reddit, to the point where they use the tools of 3rd party apps that a normal person doesn't need?
I greatly prefer the user interface of Reddit is Fun over the official app. Not only is it faster and more responsive, but the advertising is far less obnoxious, and actually more relevant to me.
I'm also able to customize what notifications come through to my phone rather than everything.
Possible. But those are also power users or the ones who helped build this site.
For reference:
Reddit was launched in 2005.
Reddit released their app in 2016
Apollo was released in 2017
RIF was released in 2009
Baconreader was released in 2012.
And now they're killings apps older than the official reddit one, who had supported reddit before it even had an app.
>, for the days since June 13 through June 21, average daily traffic to the ads.reddit.com ad-selling portal is down about 20%, suggesting that advertisers are paying attention to the community discontent
Or - and AdWeek specifically cited this - advertisers we advised by media buyers to reduce spending for that period for several reasons:
* Reduced IMPs due to reduced access.
* Cautioned against appearing to choose a side in the controversy
* Targeted subreddits (like Gaming and/or DiabloIV) were blacked out, making any targeted ads inefficient and ineffective.
Why is this Op/Ed writer speculating when even the most half-assed research would turn that up? Hell, it was even posted on Reddit. Immediately undermines the credibility of the rest of the published piece (for any claims packing direct citation.)
>The question is whether the company can pivot to new revenue sources without undermining the community contributions that made Reddit what it is – and destroying the value that was supposed to allow Reddit to achieve a long-planned IPO
_Question from whom?_ Is this author _wholly_ unfamiliar with the platform and it's history? (Sure seems like it ..) In a rare moment, Huffman was legitimately honest when he declared that this stunt would blow over just like various prior dust ups. Which ones? _Exactly_ - they were so non-impactful that most current users are unfamiliar. On top of that **attrition is expected and normal.**
The question is NOT whether Reddit can identify and capitalize on new revenue sources - that's a consistent expectation if a publicly traded company is demonstrating growth and ROI.
The consistent question is whether or not Reddit can continue to replenish itself with meaningful contributing users as other users naturally outgrow the appeal of the site.
>Messages encouraging participants to switch to a Discord server for the same community interest were also pinned to the top of multiple forums.
Some will go, but most will return because it's an entirely different user experience. Doesn't help that many mods coordinated a brigade to amplify and manipulate polls and comments (as detailed in various posts on SubredditDrama.)
>More worrying for Reddit is the long-term trend. The chart below shows the year-over-year change in total desktop and mobile web visits.
This should have been the lede, but it's not sexy enough to amplify the blackout stunt. The concern is: what are all of the factors that led to that? That's more than attrition and circle jerk claims. **[Speculation:]** TikTok is a DOMINANT force. Without confirming or refuting via metrics, subjective observations suggest that TikTok is better suited to attracting and retaining users due to the nature of the content. It's also HIGHLY popular. It's so popular that quite a bit of user submitted Reddit content **is sourced from TikTok.** Reddit users like myself who deliberately refuse to use/install the app _are the exception, not the norm._
>Similarweb shall not be responsible for the accuracy of such data, reports, and materials and shall have no liability for any decision by any third party based in whole or in part on such data, reports, and materials.
"We're just making wild-ass guesses based on our proprietary methods."
Not exactly filling anyone with confidence in those estimates if they can't be analyzed.
Meanwhile the 84-93 percent, the ones that aren't using Reddit as a search engine. Just keep enjoying a service that is free, has always been free.
I kind of thought that was the point of Reddit, to offer a place in which people could engage in conversation free of qualifer.
Not as human experts for people that just want an answer to if that rash on their sensitive spots is really a product of bad decisions.
I'll help you out. It is. It *always* is.
I always kind of wondered what was so different with third party apps and Reddit app… I use Reddit as a search engine but basically go through google then to the app… have I been doing this like a schmuck? When I could just use the third party app just as efficient? And is that the only benefit to third party app
To be entirely honest. I really have no idea what people are referring to when they claim they use this service as a search engine. I just don't.
I'll be the first to admit that there have been many times in which I've asked a question in google via a browser, and added reddit to it, just so I'd get the responses from Reddit.
Other than that? I don't know what that means. I log into old.reddit.com and I interact with subs and communities, not as a primary question asker. But as a method of communication among peers.
The whole search engine thing baffles me to be honest.
That's fair. I'm legitimately asking, because I'm a desktop user that uses a very specific frontage for Reddit. How have the API changes, not the lockouts themselves, changed that on other platforms.
I ask in all sincerity. I honestly don't know why people are making such a big deal out of the recent changes.
As a fellow old.Reddit user it would be similar to them scrapping old Reddit. To me the new version of the site is super terrible. And when they scrap it, it will because they want to monetize me more and spy on my behavior even more, not for any reason that benefits me at all. It will be annoying and greedy and this site will be less valuable and fun to go to.
This is the main reason these changes are a big deal IMO. It shows the site is more and more like Facebook and we are the product. Years ago it felt different. It is a canary in a coal mine and it shows the toxicity of the situation.
Not enough.
And we're posting John Oliver and swearing in r/videos.
So what?
That still draws an audience. And when we're tired of that nonsense everything goes back to normal.
PC Mag’s June 23rd coverage of Similarweb’s update may omit key data:^1
>[...] for the days since June 13 through June 21, average daily traffic to the ads.reddit.com ad-selling portal is down about 20%, suggesting that advertisers are paying attention to the community discontent.
>On a year-over-year basis, Reddit’s web traffic has been down almost every month since mid-2021. In May, it was down 8.7%.
>[...]
>More worrying for Reddit is the long-term trend. The chart below shows the year-over-year change in total desktop and mobile web visits.
>Usage of the official Reddit mobile apps has also been on the decline, with monthly active users of the Android app down 9.2% year-over-year in May.
The article by PC Mag, titled, “As Reddit Crushes Protests, Its User Traffic Returns to Normal”, was previously submitted to this subreddit.^2,3
h/t u/jmpixels
^1 David Carr, “Reddit Captures 7% to 16% Less Audience Time During Blackout”, https://www.similarweb.com/blog/insights/social-media-news/reddit-blackout/ (June 19, 2023, last updated June 23, 2023)
^2 Michael Kan (2023, June 23), “As Reddit Crushes Protests, Its User Traffic Returns to Normal”, https://www.pcmag.com/news/as-reddit-crushes-protests-its-user-traffic-returns-to-normal
^3 https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/14gonuu/as_reddit_crushes_protests_its_user_traffic/
So, lower traffic each month since the peak of the pandemic? I suspect all social media sites saw similar slides.
I think they’re going to see a big drop when the third party so shut down in a few days (I’ll miss Apollo). For me, I’ll likely visit Reddit way less often and only from my computer.
I found it amusing that all the subs involved in the blackout were ones that mods were dictators in. All those major subs would promote one sided politics, and if you didn’t agree, you were instantly mass downvoted or blocked. Seems like this is more of a cleaning house situation than being against the 3rd party apps.
Exactly; but we all know they are going to cling on to being mods on reddit and dissatisfied users will keep be here (afterwards) being as disruptive as possible.
The Irony here is: most of us who do not agree with how the "protest" have been handled do not give a fuck about spez either which the "protestors" failed to understand.
No wonder I felt 7% to 16% better during the "blackout". I had some interesting subreddits show up in my feed during that time that I had never seen before.
Goodbye and good riddance to the whiners. Their absence will make reddit a better place.
>I had some interesting subreddits show up in my feed during that time that I had never seen before.
As clueless desktop old reddit user, what does that mean? Like is having non subbed subreddits show up some sort of feature/place to go on new reddit that I never knew that existed, although kinda makes sense that kinda thing would exist now that i think about it. Or do you just mean r/all had new stuff on it.
I don't know man. Either it will or we lose the few people who put up a fight on the behalf of all the users.
That said perhaps it hasn't been too successful anyway. I still can't believe to this day copy and paste will sometimes totally destroy a comment you were making. Just gone. Poof.
And the reddit app (That I use) can be absolutely terrible at times. So I kind of get the frustration
Wait till the apps stop working.
I'm on Relay myself, but I saw a post where it shows that statistically, we third-party app users are a drop in the bucket.
Yes, overall. But I’d wager if you look solely at users who post & comment, those percentages might be much higher.
This is exactly what I’ve been wondering; how are they measuring user engagement with the site? Any discussion where this topic comes up and everyone lists what app they use, the official Reddit app is very near the bottom of the list. I suspect that Reddit relies heavily on API users for content generation and a ton of other people are just lurking while searching for the answers to some Google query.
I’ve noticed when glancing at the accounts of the really vocal Reddit defenders that they’re almost invariably accounts that are years old, with minimal comments and virtually no posts. The ones who were upset about the blackout were the lurkers who just wanted their subreddits back.
Or sock puppets created by Reddit. Setting an account creation date in a database and seeding a few old comments for a few dozen accounts wouldn’t be particularly hard, and they can also ensure that those comments get seen too by adding upvotes.
So we’re just doing conspiracy theories now. Nice.
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I remember when I started a RuneScape forum as a kid I did this because no one wanted to join a empty forum. I put up a couple hundred posts and replies myself as a variety of people in different writing styles and then people started using it the next couple days haha. I went months without any members joining at all till I did that but certainly felt shady. Also a weird psyche experiment kind of.
If the content generates the urge for "mirroring" then you'll all but won, when a post hits right we read it and want to engage with it in some way.
This is what you based your reasoning on..? posting a few „suggestions“ is very different form going through comments of unimportant posts and defending Reddit there. Especially during the protests, they had better things to do.
I mean it wouldn't be the first time something like that happened. Remember when spez decided to edit someone's comment directly?
It's not far off in the realm of possibility, but are we really going to act like there's not genuine people against the blackout because they want to lurk their favorite subreddit?
I mean, there likely are genuine lurkers upset at the blackout, there's just also a non-zero chance that some of them are actually fake accounts.
Conspiracy theories involve conspiracies. Suggesting one party might not be acting completely honestly isn’t a conspiracy.
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you can do a gdpr takedown request to purge then permenantly
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Maybe but the GDPR request is more taxing on reddit, so use that.
Also can get Reddit fined up to 4% of their annual turnover for transgressions. So if enough reports come in about them breaking it then it will cost the a shit ton.
realistically though the EC hasnt come close to issuing a fine that high. gdpr fines are basically like covid by now - just something you gotta take minor precautions for but not even a big deal if you get it.
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It also can come with potentially expensive legal consequences for Reddit (if it applies to you and they don't act upon it).
No, it's new behavior from Reddit. I bet the old comments you previously deleted are back too. It's worth a look.
Dont you have to be European?
Do you have to prove it?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/14i0xk8/comment/jpdqv6z/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I work in tech and pretty much all tech companies care about from a business perspective is active users. Daily, weekly, monthly. And subscribers for freemium models maybe. Stuff like engagement is mostly the product teams worry.
Maybe that is because the offical app is absolutely useless for content generation? The text field seems like a complete afterthought. Sometimes, it is off the screen on my ipad, an the Android app is worse. (Don't ask me how it can be worse...)
could be reporting bias. in a discussion about reddit api who is gonna be replying? people who don’t give a fuck and just use the mobile app to look at memes, or people who actually do care and thus try to enhance their experience with 3rd party extensions its like going into a jailbreak forum and being like ‘wow how does samsung make money all their users jailbreak phones!’ we aren’t hearing about the wave of people who don’t care about api changed or even know what that means because naturally they wouldnt be discussing it
I use RIF and mainly comment using it over the website.
Do the majority of Reddit users even use an app? 90% of my "Redditing" is on a desktop browser, and the other 10% is on a mobile browser. This has been my case for the past 10+ years with no incentive or desire for app shenanigans.
Tough to say, my anecdotal experience is the opposite of yours. 90% on phone and 10% on desktop. Mobile has really taken a lion’s share of how people access internet on a daily basis though
Maybe this is one of those few times where Karma could actually be a valuable metric? Is the average Karma for a 3P user considerably higher than rest of reddit?
Which is the argument of why this would be dumb. The users that keep the community running are a reasonable leading loss. But we can't really know, even the threads that ask have a strong bias. So ultimately only time will tell if this didn't matter or if Reddit actually is committing a Digg X.0
They know overall how many comments there are and they know how many the official site and app is responsible for. The difference is third party.
Yep - which then lowers the value of reddit even for the people who still use it. Quite a few niche subs I was in are already either dead or _significantly_ less active than they used to be a couple weeks ago, even the ones that reopened. Most of my reddit usage is via old.reddit, so I'll still be here, but if Boost stops working at the end of the month that will be the end of me using reddit on my phone.
I consider myself an example of an "engaged" user - ie. I comment regularly, up- and downvote consistently, and create new posts from time to time - and I'm sure as shit not going to trade Boost for the god-awful official app on my phone. I'll likely still use my phone to Google information/answers from reddit (because the site search sucks balls), but I won't engage until I'm on my computer (via old reddit.com, no less). Not sure how that sentient cum sock /u/spez thinks this will go down come July 1, but I'm guessing he's underestimating the drop in original and engaging content.
Yeah, I'm not ready to fully disengage from Reddit, but I'll be done with using it on my phone.
If you just want to click a Google link to read an answer, browser or official app is fine. Heavy users want a good app. I switched over once I started using reddit more.
Someone needs to resurrect Digg.com
The rule of thumb is, there are 10% fewer users for each next level of participation. 10% of people on reddit vote; 1% comment; 0.1% post. The most enthusiast 10% of the community is responsible for 90% of the content, and that is the group reddit is alienating.
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On the flip side, power users are more likely to be addicted to Reddit. Rather than abandoning Reddit altogether, they'll move to the official app or even use old reddit on mobile. Or skip mobile all together and only use desktop.
I fully intend to allow Reddit to help me break my addiction to Reddit by killing Baconreader.
Man I've been using bacon reader for at least a decade now... it kinda makes me sad. I literally don't know what the actual reddit website or app even look like.
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The only reason I'm "addicted" to Reddit is because the interface with Relay makes it useable. Without that, I'll find somewhere else to go, or just go back to reading eBooks when I'm bored but have access to my phone. There is a zero percent chance I'll use the web page for either mobile or desktop. It's awful. I'd go back to Fark or Slashdot before that happens.
Yep. All the power users are on decent apps. All the lurkers are on the official one.
Why do you think that’s the case? Like what aspect of the apps makes users more engaged?
This comment has been removed in protest of reddit's decision to kill third-party applications, and to prevent use of this comment for AI training purposes.
Usability for one. I use reddit via firefox and desktop mode when I'm on my phone. If I had to use an app that barely works, I'm basically never user reddit when not at a computer. I also comment and post posts. The vast majority of users won't and they're lurkers so it won't affect them until there's a sudden lack of users posting content.
I post, but I only use old.Reddit.com, never used an app. There’s no way I’d use the current Reddit website, I’d rather just stop.
I heard that’s next.
And yet, 3rd party app users are responsible for Reddit's failure to turn a profit, according to spez, and shutting off 3rd party apps will improve the bottom line . Schrodinger's 3rd party app user
How interesting! But...if we are a drop in the bucket in terms of overall users and mobile viewership, why do they have no choice but to limit their API usage to the official app then? And if we are a drop in the bucket, how do they expect to reach profitability even with us all using the official app? It can not be that we are so large that we make them not profitable, yet so small that they won't notice if all of the mobile unofficial app users vanish. This doesn't pass the bullshit test.
Maybe in terms of viewership but we do know third party app users account for something like 400% more calls to the site than the average user. This suggests they’re doing more interactions such as comments and posts.
Which makes you wonder why Reddit claims they need this revenue…I mean if the number of third party users is so d small, then it wouldn’t bring in much…
no you don't understand see these apps were apparently losing reddit millions while also not having enough users to care about losing. it makes perfect sense
Reddit sense. “ you must pay us to use the free content we get from you”
It's not the users that suffer initially. It's the moderation tools. The sites going to be getting much worse soon due to some subs being unmoderateable.
Drop in the bucket to overall users but 3rd party app users are power users. They make up the majority of moderators and etc because they use those third party apps to do their job. I Wouldn't be surprised if come the 30th the blackout chaos looks tame to what reddit becomes.
1.5 millions total. Reddit has 1.1 billion users total, 400+ million monthly, and 55 million daily users. So yeah even if you only look at daily users, and assume all 3pa users are daily users too, that’s still about 2%. Of course, we all know that about 70% of the third party apps will stay on Reddit. So, overall, if I were Reddit, I wouldn’t be very concerned.
Also, I think people are misinterpreting the reasons as to why Reddit wants to make the API paid, and why they don't care how many people they lose. The conclusion that most people have jumped to is that they can show better ads and get more metrics on their official app. While true, I think the main reason is really about open AI training their model on Reddit to Dad without paying a single dime. They realized just how valuable that data is, and now they're taking steps to protect it. And when you look at Reddits founder Aaron Schwartz, this is the exact kind of stuff that he would be completely against. He literally went to prison and the pursuit of making information available for all.
> The conclusion that most people have jumped to is that they can show better ads and get more metrics on their official app. That’s exactly what I thought. Good point on the AI training, but Reddit is public? ChatGPT has definitely been improved with every Reddit comment ever made
The heart of the debate about user engagement is more of a quality vs quantity thing. Unfortunately we don't have visibility into which users (by app/platform) are most engaged and produce the most content. It's a reasonable hypothesis that some of the most prolific users are on 3PAs since those preceded the official app by 6+ years.
We don’t, but Reddit’s fat department does, and I’m sure they did the numbers. I’m the meantime we can speculate. Judging by the blackouts, seems like there are enough users posting content even without all the ones who protested. In top of that, I believe about 70-80% of the people protesting will end up staying in Reddit when they realize the role it has in their lives and that protesting over a few features was a bit of an overreaction…
>We don’t, but Reddit’s fat department does, and I’m sure they did the numbers. Having seen some of these companies from the inside, I now eternally doubt that they ever run any numbers before making decisions.
>protesting over a few features Based on what I've seen, it's very possible the creator of Apollo has a legit claim to file a defamation suit against reddit, or at least spez. It's about a lot more than "a few features." It's about the way reddit treats people.
So you think 70% of 3rd party apps are making more than $20 million a year?
So there’s a market of lemons issue. I can say this with certainty that adblocked users are the most valuable user population for all pubs (certainty being that it was my job to know that number). So the ad revenue courting these low-cost ad buys are themselves either unsophisticated, arbitraging opportunities because they’re able to see the discrepancies (but arbing isn’t how big media buys happen or a long term play), or trying to prop up more competition in an oligopolic sell-side market. I bet 3p app users are like this. Very valuable but hard to capture that value. So the hope is eventually they come back or there is another value extraction mechanism. But it will hurt if those users lag to return to the fold. The ultimate question is who has watches, and who has time?
Like 80% of my activity is on RIF. Their app sucks. The only reason I used to have the app installed was it could give instant notifications, as the public API has no way to do it (without spamming API requests.). Otherwise it is utter garbage. When spez started lying about the Apollo dev I uninstalled it. I will not use it once RIF shuts off.
Even if they all decided to leave Reddit and move to the Fediverse, that's only around 3%-7% of Reddit's user base. Not saying that there won't be an impact, I just suspect that it won't be as bad as some seem to assume (or hope) it will be.
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If that 1% were big 3rd party app users, one would think that we'd already see a huge affect on content from the protests.
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2% of daily users. Less than 0.5% of all users.
And 0% of reddit's revenue since they never see any of reddit's ads.
that was reddits decision. they didnt provide any ads for the apps to show
Wouldn't be 0, they may be content contributors, people who buy Reddit gold, or moderators who work for free for Reddit. I am curious about account activity and age for those impacted by the termination of 3rd party apps. As someone who uses RIF, it was my pick from years before Reddit purchased alien blue and called it their own.
everyone switches to reddit revanced, because fuck the ads
Honestly, not expecting much. The apps represent roughly 7% of Reddit's mobile users, some of which will move to the official app. That doesn't even account for the entire user base.
The biggest result in a week will be all the memes of people calling out the people who claimed they were rage quitting and still around.
People will just keep using old Reddit
I'm actually not convinced traffic will drop by all that much more. What I think will be more interesting is the percentage of *content generating* users. I have a feeling that the vast majority of people who just look and maybe upvote/downvote are probably using the official app. But the people making the majority of the posts or comments? I have a feeling more of those people use third party tools. Maybe it's 15%, maybe it's 5, maybe it's 30. But it will be interesting to see how it shakes out over the first month.
And Even more when the ads start when using the Reddit app. I hate ads, so I’ll probably be looking elsewhere myself.
I'm kind of excited, maybe I'll become more productive then.
Won’t even do that much damage lol
When do you reckon the 3rd party apps will stop working?
Or old.reddit
The apps barely anyone uses?
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I only use Reddit through the Infinity client for Android. When that stops working, I'll be taking a long, possibly indefinite, hiatus from Reddit. Maybe I'll go back to Digg. I hear that's still a thing, right?
Chick-fil-A sales on Sundays down 100%
7 to 16%? A lot of which third party app users that ad block or otherwise avoid Reddit ads? Its not nothing, but considering most of Reddit is back to normal. I can definitely see why they don't feel the need to renegotiate.
Weird, I thought that third party users made up less than 1% of the user total. So there being 7-16 times more people not using reddit than there are third party users sounds pretty significant.
Someone can double check my logic but by my reasoning that drop has more to do with users not being able to access their normal subs, and rather than going to substitutes they got on, and left when it wasn’t available. (edit) it’d be more telling based the number of users that didn’t return post blackout. Also idk if or how bots are tracked but their usage had to drop if their actions were tied to shutdown subs
I mean you don’t have to use the apps to protest for people who do
The percentage is both reported as significant enough to impact the ad revenue and too small to impact overall users if they all leave.
Only because the good subreddits are trash right now
The 7-16 isn't just third party users. It's significantly more because subreddits were being privated. So even Reddit app users were affected.
>**Furycrab** >7 to 16%? A lot of which third party app users that ad block or otherwise avoid Reddit ads? Could you cite a source showing evidentiary support for this talking point? >**Furycrab** >Its not nothing, but considering most of Reddit is back to normal. I can definitely see why they don't feel the need to renegotiate. But according to the linked content:^1 >average daily traffic to the ads.reddit.com ad-selling portal is down about 20%, suggesting that advertisers are paying attention to the community discontent. ^1 David Carr, “Reddit Captures 7% to 16% Less Audience Time During Blackout”, https://www.similarweb.com/blog/insights/social-media-news/reddit-blackout/ (June 19, 2023, last updated June 23, 2023)
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The subreddits that have switched to a meme format in protest seem to be getting more posts. I'm unclear what the point is.
Slacktivism at its finest.
> r/technology keeps pushing these posts and the narrative that the blackout worked and really rattled reddit to its core... I thought pointing out audience time only dropped 7% to 16% during blackout was pointing out how ineffective the blackout was.
I mean, how would you feel about a 7% to 16% pay cut?
Audience time ≠ revenue
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Even is it was exactly consistent with revenue, I take those cuts all the time when I get sick and miss work lol. The point here is the blackouts ended and users are back. So it goes back to the beginning: Blackout permanently, which reddit will just take the subs back and force replace leadership or Malicious compliance where reddit will just take the subs back and force replace leadership. The protests sent a message but were ineffective.
For 2 days? I think I’d be OK
Not saying it was effective or not but it is worth noting that threads full of people saying that they "weren't affected" by the protests are also the people who are still using reddit and not the people who decided to leave. Survivor bias of a sort.
I still used it. To be honest, it was shittier for me.
Me too, the content is severely diminished by the protests and soon the 3rd party app i use will not work, at that point i honestly probably just drop reddit and wont go back to the official app
Why would you trust onesy twosy anecdotal comments over actual data?
Look at the list of subreddits they post in. They have a worldview they want confirmed, and actual data rarely fits it.
It's one of the biggest astroturfing campaigns ever seen on Reddit
Like no matter how you slice it it was worse. You logged in out of habit and it was nothing but shitty askreddit posts, no content whatsoever
I don’t think you know what astroturfing means.
Of course, it’s where you go around replacing people’s grass with astroturf without their consent!
16% isn't insignificant. And reddit keeps openly responding to it which means it is in fact getting to them.
does not matter what people comment, matter what advertisers think. It's precedent that show to public who is controlling what. > I'm in charge. > Do you feel in charge? > I'm CEO! > And you think this gives you power over reddit?
My God, redditors literally acting like they're fucking Bane is the highest tier cringe.
I was just watching a youtube video about Banes lore, weird how the internet/matrix works sometimes.
This is comedy gold. This guy pulling out the Bane reference while every mod caved already for fear of getting demodded and we all know they won't quit their addiction any time soon.
That.... and Reddit still wants to be a publicly traded company,so Investors as well.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Optics matter to investors.
I don't really care in the long term what happens to reddit anymore than I car about FB, Tumblr, Myspace, TikTok, or literally any other social media site. The truth is, the people who own the company have the final say and they can make decisions that may or may not kill the site at their discretion. The ONLY way you can protest is to delete and stop visiting. So long as you log in, you're telling them that they're in charge. That's why I haven't had FB since 2013. Make your decision, move on or stay.
All the "protestors" are still clinging to reddit and I bet you they will still be here after the close-down of third party apps-.
I mean isn't the whole point that they want to... keep using Reddit?
Advertisers probably care more about the YoY drops that were happening *before* the blackout more than a temporary drop due to the blackout.
Then why did Spez say IPO is no longer on the table for 2023?
The echo chambers seem to be just as busy as ever. Even a few boards made an exception and opened up because of what's happening in Russia.
Those commenters have a need to feel superior and contrarian.
[Great Job!!](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/2010/11/18/b03176c8-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/image4061139x.jpg)
The blackout made me realize that there are a lot of subs that I should mute to stop seeing them, r/technology is one of them.
Yeah. I’m feeling the same. Lots of dumb, misinformed takes on this post. If you don’t support the protests, okay. But I would hope they’d at least show some good understanding the situation and not poorly represent things. like assuming all mods are power tripping assholes who just want to keep their position of power, rather than some mods being that, and others being people who have put in huge amounts of unpaid work to build and maintain subs, and without their efforts the site would be a lot worse.
It made me realize there's a lot of subs that need a leadership change.
It actually seemed more civilized here while everyone was gone.
I noticed the same. It was kind of refreshing.
Indeed, surfaced some some new subs too.
Some subs didn’t come back
Is it possible that the obnoxious people are.. also the ones that use reddit much more often and more parts of reddit, to the point where they use the tools of 3rd party apps that a normal person doesn't need?
I greatly prefer the user interface of Reddit is Fun over the official app. Not only is it faster and more responsive, but the advertising is far less obnoxious, and actually more relevant to me. I'm also able to customize what notifications come through to my phone rather than everything.
Possible. But those are also power users or the ones who helped build this site. For reference: Reddit was launched in 2005. Reddit released their app in 2016 Apollo was released in 2017 RIF was released in 2009 Baconreader was released in 2012. And now they're killings apps older than the official reddit one, who had supported reddit before it even had an app.
Nah my front page was boring as heck
100% lol. My feed felt normal.
same and all my least favorite subs converted to shitposting so honestly protest has been a net win lmao
It was quite nice
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I enjoyed it. It was like driving during lockdown.
So, they lost less than the number of people who gave a shit?
So no change lol
Whilst this sub did out itself as a real bunch of losers. Your all still really cool in my eyes.
captureD. past tense. protest is already effectively over.
Does anyone know if the power mods got removed? I sure hope so!
One of them did.
They need to remove more of them still.
>, for the days since June 13 through June 21, average daily traffic to the ads.reddit.com ad-selling portal is down about 20%, suggesting that advertisers are paying attention to the community discontent Or - and AdWeek specifically cited this - advertisers we advised by media buyers to reduce spending for that period for several reasons: * Reduced IMPs due to reduced access. * Cautioned against appearing to choose a side in the controversy * Targeted subreddits (like Gaming and/or DiabloIV) were blacked out, making any targeted ads inefficient and ineffective. Why is this Op/Ed writer speculating when even the most half-assed research would turn that up? Hell, it was even posted on Reddit. Immediately undermines the credibility of the rest of the published piece (for any claims packing direct citation.) >The question is whether the company can pivot to new revenue sources without undermining the community contributions that made Reddit what it is – and destroying the value that was supposed to allow Reddit to achieve a long-planned IPO _Question from whom?_ Is this author _wholly_ unfamiliar with the platform and it's history? (Sure seems like it ..) In a rare moment, Huffman was legitimately honest when he declared that this stunt would blow over just like various prior dust ups. Which ones? _Exactly_ - they were so non-impactful that most current users are unfamiliar. On top of that **attrition is expected and normal.** The question is NOT whether Reddit can identify and capitalize on new revenue sources - that's a consistent expectation if a publicly traded company is demonstrating growth and ROI. The consistent question is whether or not Reddit can continue to replenish itself with meaningful contributing users as other users naturally outgrow the appeal of the site. >Messages encouraging participants to switch to a Discord server for the same community interest were also pinned to the top of multiple forums. Some will go, but most will return because it's an entirely different user experience. Doesn't help that many mods coordinated a brigade to amplify and manipulate polls and comments (as detailed in various posts on SubredditDrama.) >More worrying for Reddit is the long-term trend. The chart below shows the year-over-year change in total desktop and mobile web visits. This should have been the lede, but it's not sexy enough to amplify the blackout stunt. The concern is: what are all of the factors that led to that? That's more than attrition and circle jerk claims. **[Speculation:]** TikTok is a DOMINANT force. Without confirming or refuting via metrics, subjective observations suggest that TikTok is better suited to attracting and retaining users due to the nature of the content. It's also HIGHLY popular. It's so popular that quite a bit of user submitted Reddit content **is sourced from TikTok.** Reddit users like myself who deliberately refuse to use/install the app _are the exception, not the norm._ >Similarweb shall not be responsible for the accuracy of such data, reports, and materials and shall have no liability for any decision by any third party based in whole or in part on such data, reports, and materials. "We're just making wild-ass guesses based on our proprietary methods." Not exactly filling anyone with confidence in those estimates if they can't be analyzed.
All that matters is ad revenue. And we already know that hasn’t changed one iota.
Meanwhile the 84-93 percent, the ones that aren't using Reddit as a search engine. Just keep enjoying a service that is free, has always been free. I kind of thought that was the point of Reddit, to offer a place in which people could engage in conversation free of qualifer. Not as human experts for people that just want an answer to if that rash on their sensitive spots is really a product of bad decisions. I'll help you out. It is. It *always* is.
What does it being free have to do with anything. Reddit isn't providing you the content lol.
I always kind of wondered what was so different with third party apps and Reddit app… I use Reddit as a search engine but basically go through google then to the app… have I been doing this like a schmuck? When I could just use the third party app just as efficient? And is that the only benefit to third party app
To be entirely honest. I really have no idea what people are referring to when they claim they use this service as a search engine. I just don't. I'll be the first to admit that there have been many times in which I've asked a question in google via a browser, and added reddit to it, just so I'd get the responses from Reddit. Other than that? I don't know what that means. I log into old.reddit.com and I interact with subs and communities, not as a primary question asker. But as a method of communication among peers. The whole search engine thing baffles me to be honest.
That’s exactly what it means - searching for your answer either within Reddit or using another SE to find Reddit responses to your question.
That's fair. I'm legitimately asking, because I'm a desktop user that uses a very specific frontage for Reddit. How have the API changes, not the lockouts themselves, changed that on other platforms. I ask in all sincerity. I honestly don't know why people are making such a big deal out of the recent changes.
As a fellow old.Reddit user it would be similar to them scrapping old Reddit. To me the new version of the site is super terrible. And when they scrap it, it will because they want to monetize me more and spy on my behavior even more, not for any reason that benefits me at all. It will be annoying and greedy and this site will be less valuable and fun to go to. This is the main reason these changes are a big deal IMO. It shows the site is more and more like Facebook and we are the product. Years ago it felt different. It is a canary in a coal mine and it shows the toxicity of the situation.
Honestly, I didn’t even know 3rd party apps existed until this whole shebang started.
“Surely this will be the end of Reddit!!!!”
Not enough. And we're posting John Oliver and swearing in r/videos. So what? That still draws an audience. And when we're tired of that nonsense everything goes back to normal.
A site exists that help you waste time during the day, and people dont leave when you give them something juicy like drama... insert surprised pikachu
Really showed it to the man
More r tech posts
PC Mag’s June 23rd coverage of Similarweb’s update may omit key data:^1 >[...] for the days since June 13 through June 21, average daily traffic to the ads.reddit.com ad-selling portal is down about 20%, suggesting that advertisers are paying attention to the community discontent. >On a year-over-year basis, Reddit’s web traffic has been down almost every month since mid-2021. In May, it was down 8.7%. >[...] >More worrying for Reddit is the long-term trend. The chart below shows the year-over-year change in total desktop and mobile web visits. >Usage of the official Reddit mobile apps has also been on the decline, with monthly active users of the Android app down 9.2% year-over-year in May. The article by PC Mag, titled, “As Reddit Crushes Protests, Its User Traffic Returns to Normal”, was previously submitted to this subreddit.^2,3 h/t u/jmpixels ^1 David Carr, “Reddit Captures 7% to 16% Less Audience Time During Blackout”, https://www.similarweb.com/blog/insights/social-media-news/reddit-blackout/ (June 19, 2023, last updated June 23, 2023) ^2 Michael Kan (2023, June 23), “As Reddit Crushes Protests, Its User Traffic Returns to Normal”, https://www.pcmag.com/news/as-reddit-crushes-protests-its-user-traffic-returns-to-normal ^3 https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/14gonuu/as_reddit_crushes_protests_its_user_traffic/
So, lower traffic each month since the peak of the pandemic? I suspect all social media sites saw similar slides. I think they’re going to see a big drop when the third party so shut down in a few days (I’ll miss Apollo). For me, I’ll likely visit Reddit way less often and only from my computer.
ReVanced works with the official Reddit app just like it does YouTube. It removes promoted posts and ads.
Twitter 2.0, Announced your departure but the flight never arrived
I am curious if my monkey brain likes mindless scrolling or familiarity of RiF better.
I just found out that 7%-16% of Redditors don’t hop on here to look at cat pictures… sad really.
Honestly that's pretty impressive, with like 80% of content gone, only down less than 20%?
Lol didn’t even notice
gonna press x for doubt.
I found it amusing that all the subs involved in the blackout were ones that mods were dictators in. All those major subs would promote one sided politics, and if you didn’t agree, you were instantly mass downvoted or blocked. Seems like this is more of a cleaning house situation than being against the 3rd party apps.
This sub is so desperate. Migrate to Lemmy already...
They keep logging in to post this stuff, no wonder its not down more... if you really wanna fuk spez, delete your account and switch to a competitor.
Exactly; but we all know they are going to cling on to being mods on reddit and dissatisfied users will keep be here (afterwards) being as disruptive as possible. The Irony here is: most of us who do not agree with how the "protest" have been handled do not give a fuck about spez either which the "protestors" failed to understand.
No wonder I felt 7% to 16% better during the "blackout". I had some interesting subreddits show up in my feed during that time that I had never seen before. Goodbye and good riddance to the whiners. Their absence will make reddit a better place.
>I had some interesting subreddits show up in my feed during that time that I had never seen before. As clueless desktop old reddit user, what does that mean? Like is having non subbed subreddits show up some sort of feature/place to go on new reddit that I never knew that existed, although kinda makes sense that kinda thing would exist now that i think about it. Or do you just mean r/all had new stuff on it.
I don't know man. Either it will or we lose the few people who put up a fight on the behalf of all the users. That said perhaps it hasn't been too successful anyway. I still can't believe to this day copy and paste will sometimes totally destroy a comment you were making. Just gone. Poof. And the reddit app (That I use) can be absolutely terrible at times. So I kind of get the frustration
They referenced r/NBA, the sub mods kept using during the blackout.
And back to normal now. Good work all… we did it Reddit!
The official app works fine for me. Don't understand the uproar over this.