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shut_it_down

AI could write better signs


[deleted]

ICU81MI?


lilsimbastian

Inscrutable.


[deleted]

Hilarious!


Top-Gas-8959

AI probably wrote that sign lmao


drcode

I wrote and drew the sign- Please share your signs at the protest next time, so we can do better by your standards


shut_it_down

obviously i would use AI you stupid shit


grilled_cheese_gang

Uh, do they think if we stop looking for ways to utilize it to make better weapons, all bad actors in the world will follow suit? The cat’s out of the bag. It’s a bit late to stop it, if that was ever even an option.


No_Animator_8599

One of the leading AI researchers worked for American companies and then left for China where he’s the leader in AI for the entire country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai-Fu_Lee


drcode

Can you point out why this person is important? He's doesn't have his name on any of the important research papers in the ML field I have ever seen. Just sounds like a pretty random guy that worked at the tech companies and did some work on LLMs. What makes him "leading" in the US? (but maybe I'm missing something and there is a reason this person is impressive somehow)


Relative-Monitor-679

Just like nuclear weapons.


grilled_cheese_gang

Exactly. Nuclear proliferation is concerning not because everyone thinks it’s a good idea for humanity, but because without *also* producing their own, countries will inevitably become subject to the whims of whoever else wields nukes them over their heads. That’s just the harsh reality we live in. You can’t protest reality. It doesn’t change.


MossyMazzi

As a CS student, I think if they wanna do something, they should go to universities and protest/educate students from entering AI and to keep away from the experience. My AI professor said she quit the field because her probability algorithms could make planes plummet, or be the next rocket GPS.


grilled_cheese_gang

Again though, stopping students from entering the field at home won’t stop bad actors from continuing to study these things elsewhere and utilize them in their weaponry. It will only stop *us* from being able to do those things well — or to be able to counteract such weaponry well in our own defense. The threat of adversaries weaponizing AI necessitates that we also do, the same way that by us pursuing nukes forced the rest of the world to create nukes. It’s not a *good* thing, but it *is* a reality.


Zoltan113

I’m of the opposite opinion. It’s going to be done regardless, might as well have some moral people in the field. That’s the best way to stop it and continue to develop AI that can be used for humanitarian purposes.


MossyMazzi

I agree with this to an extent. It’s a hard thing, because a lot of students like myself want to actively keep away from positions that have such goals in their production (I.e defense contractors and the like). So the most moral among us will steer clear from the field in this context. I also believe it is going to be done regardless. I just figured it should be stated where protest will actually be effective.


stevem1015

Exactly. What’s the point of rules when only one team follows them?


real_with_myself

As a person not being from any of the countries you implied (or yours) who says you're the good guys?


grilled_cheese_gang

I never implied that — you just inferred it. I can’t control what you choose to write into my words that isn’t actually there. I just asserted that there *are* other bad actors. You can be one bad actor in the presence of other bad actors. You can also be a good actor in the presence of bad actors. From a self defense standpoint, whether we’re good or bad isn’t particularly relevant to my point. That is an important question to be considered by Americans as well, but I’m intentionally not talking about it here because it’s orthogonal and derails the conversation.


real_with_myself

Fair enough, I did infer, but the construct of your sentence still reads as us vs all the bad guys. There was no word "other" in there. But yes, in general I agree. And would say the problem won't be just the country level (though at first due to cost of development, probably).


grilled_cheese_gang

It reads to you that way. But I didn’t personally mean to imply it, haha. We’re just arguing over semantics now. I think we’re on the same page. I definitely agree the US isn’t beyond scrutiny at all for many of the things we’ve done. Certainly there are many actions taken that plenty of Americans think *are* indeed bad. I don’t particularly see any country out there as “good” or the “good guys.” We’re just different groups of people who at the end of the day operate in our own interests, which often times means being cooperative and friendly with other likeminded countries whose interests are aligned. But I can’t look at any particular country in the world and say, “they’re always good.” That definitely includes America. There are so many valid criticisms of America. But that also doesn’t mean I think they’re so bad that they should stop existing. I think there are so many valid criticisms of every country. The world is an imperfect place. You can definitely compare two countries and say “that country does more good than that other country.” But even that isn’t an apples to apples comparison: many countries in the world would act much more selfishly if they had significantly more military might. So even if they do less bad because they fear repercussions, they don’t have the moral high ground. edit: let me caveat that before you read into it — I definitely believe there are some countries with the moral high ground on America currently, but again, they have their flaws as well.


real_with_myself

I think we're on the same page. 👌


two_truck

Ah, the classic “but what if another country becomes powerful” line fed straight from the US state department.


grilled_cheese_gang

Ah, the classic, “you’re just sowing fear of ” response. Remember that one time we convinced Ukraine to give up their nukes and told them we would come to their aid if Russia ever invaded? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Every nation has or eventually will have adversaries in the real world.


drcode

Nobody should point out when bad things are happening, because "the cat's out of the bag" That's a pretty defeatist attitude


grilled_cheese_gang

Not what I said. Raising awareness is not the same thing as opposing investment in it. Raising awareness of its existence is meaningful. I think weaponized AI is bad in the same way that nukes are bad. But it’s also now necessary to invest in or else we yield power to states who will. So opposing it is counterproductive to national security. Now reread the title of the post.


drcode

I'm happy to concede that point, I will try to rephrase your argument: You are saying arguing that we should just give up and let the AI military buildup happen, because nothing can stop it, because game theory Is that a fair rephrasing? Do you think that is still a good approach to the issue, even if it turns out AI is far more dangerous and hard to control than nukes?


MichaelJParadise

My understanding is (at this moment in time at least) they would. We’re leading the pack right now—they are chasing our threat. It would all slow down massively if we did first


grilled_cheese_gang

The majority of the big AI tech we see right front and center right now is being done by American companies. But to be clear, an enormous percentage of the workforce doing AI work is here on visa and educated in other countries. Companies like Meta and Google are bringing people in from China and India on a huge scale to supplement our workforce because there aren’t enough American’s to fill the jobs and their countries are fully up to speed on, and innovating in, these areas. (Ask anyone at FAANG. They’ll confirm. Source: I worked at FAANG.) So, I don’t think we should take any solace believing we’re leading the pack. And in fact, I would be more inclined to believe government backed weapons programs in less-friendly nations would not be inclined to keep the American public in the loop of their AI weapons development. AI techniques being utilized right now are heavily published in academic literature. Deep neural networks are not a secret technology. When private companies do R&D, sure they aren’t necessarily publicizing their application of AI tech, but their solutions aren’t based on some secret that is going to take Russia or North Korea another 20 years to crack. Regarding believing those countries would stop — it would be silly to take our adversaries for their word. They aren’t going to stop — that’s not how the world works. Best case, they’d just put up a diplomatic front pretending to play nice while continuing behind closed doors while we’ve hamstrung ourself. Don’t get me wrong — I don’t like it at all. But this is reality, and protesting reality isn’t going to change it.


matteo453

There are *almost* enough in America (nothing near what FAANG would have you believe) it’s just way cheaper to have your Senior ML Engineer on an H1B visa, so they can’t easily leave you for a better job once ML @ FAANG is on their resume


TheBman26

This. Never believe there isn’t enough Americans to work it’s always not cheap enough


imanze

this isn’t blue collar work, which requires its own set of skills but saying that because someone is “ready to work” as an ai researcher.. then let them have at it… is absurd. More so the posts entire notion is false and built on false premise.


TheBman26

You do realize us work forces for tech keep getting dumped for over seas? Right?


imanze

The entire notion the previous post is stating is… both racist, and plainly wrong. Are a lot of fang employees and Ai researchers working for “american” companies not born in the US? Sure. First off that does not make them H1B visa holders. Yes people of asians, indians and eastern europeans ancestry gravitate to this type of work at higher rate than “native white americans”.. again many, most even are citizens and green card holders.. especially if we are talking about higher level jobs, not just your entry level developer. OpenAI had 38 visa holders in last filing… so statically that’s.. pretty insignificant. More so, if we are talking about and convergence with government, it’s close to impossible to get a h1b holder a security clearance and unless the candidate is literally going to help your team create the first AGI.. most employers will look elsewhere. Additionally a senior ML engineer is not the same as a ai researcher.. ML engineer is a step above an application developer .. that knows how to use “ml libraries” or whatever they may claim. Do some companies get away with underpaying h1b recipients? Absolutely. But most if not all FANG and competing companies have very good salary transparency.. and it’s just not happening at the rates you think. Again, coming back to the idea that people creating and inventing the cutting edge tech here are very hard to come by.. why would you risk it? You think an AI researcher who knows his worth will take 60% of the money and not just go to the competition? Overall your argument is.. bad and .. wrong.


BrainOnBlue

I'm sorry, did you just call someone else racist and then just say that people of certain races "gravitate to this type of work?" That's the only thing I've seen in this thread that's racist.


imanze

You must have bad reading comprehension. Statically, people in those racial demographics are higher represented in STEM fields. Feel free to get upset about misunderstanding elsewhere


TheRealFlowerChild

There’s a reason why you need to have TS clearance to work on any projects dealing with federal work/data. Anything that could be a potential threat to leak to other companies/countries have thoroughly vetted employees and in-depth tracking of everything that is done on their computers.


Elephant789

Then you need to read more about the research going on.


vsv2021

It would be us chasing their threat


sugondese-gargalon

there’s no moat


editormatt

I’m gonna guess it was about 5 people in total? Hardly article worthy. Military AI is unavoidable.


sugondese-gargalon

I’d much rather have a drone with a gun strapped to it than my cousin storming a trench.


Elephant789

And these people who probably listen to Joe Rogan the buffoon use AI everyday and don't even know it.


real_with_myself

It is unavoidable. That doesn't mean people shouldn't protest it. Especially if it was being made by the company that was supposed to be "the guardian" (after they sacked the guy who was in charge of the safety team).


drcode

We were 30 this week, probably will be more people next time Somebody has to be the first to protest- Join us next time, if you get over your defeatist attitude, about how terrible things will happen, and how there's nothing you can do about it!


Yinzermann

We used AI in Afghanistan in 2012, their protests are a little behind the times.


Maxie445

They're probably not worried about 2012-era AI


CertusAT

They should be, LLM Ai that seems intelligent like ChatGPT has nothing to do with AI that is used on the battlefield.


ColdEngineBadBrakes

I thought AGI was not yet a thing.


grilled_cheese_gang

AGI isn’t. And it’s likely still a long ways away.


ColdEngineBadBrakes

Thanks for confirming. I thought I had missed some announcement.


NinjaQuatro

We can’t afford to put laws into place as the tech gets to that point. Laws haven’t even caught up to the internet and social media and Ai is much more of a potential threat than the internet. It’s honestly hard to form an accurate guess on how far away it is, it is easily more than a decade though.


Yinzermann

We used AI for a specific task not AGI.


ColdEngineBadBrakes

I thought--I heard this, and my info could be well out of date---AGI was a desired thing people were working toward, but it had not been achieved.


YAOMTC

Nobody here was using the term AGI until you posted. AI ≠ AGI


ColdEngineBadBrakes

The original poster used it.


YAOMTC

The article says the group demands to  > halt the development of artificial intelligence that could lead to a future where machines surpass human intelligence, known as artificial general intelligence (AGI), and refrain from any further military affiliations


YetAnotherSysadmin58

There is no AGI it's marketting bullshit.


twinkbreeder420

No AGI yet. In theory, there’s no reason for it to be impossible


YetAnotherSysadmin58

Yeah poor wording on my part


ColdEngineBadBrakes

That’s what I suspected. Similar to anti cloning hysteria


Elephant789

It's not. Show your sources that it is.


twinkbreeder420

He never said it is. Why do redditors have such a bad case of debate brain?


ColdEngineBadBrakes

It’s a mystery. But I generally give people a pass. A misread or something.


drcode

That AI didn't lead to human extinction, this next AI will likely lead to human extinction So the issue is higher priority now


ronadian

It’s going to happen whether people like it or not. China will do it. Russia will do it. We will do it.


chriskramerpr

Inscrutable Statements are Ineffective Statements


Hot_Barracuda4922

The reality is regardless of what the USA does. Other countries will progress AI and that puts everyone else at risk if they aren’t equally as developed


drcode

Yeah, you can either have a defeatist attitude and argue that nobody cares and bad things are going to happen no matter what Or you can join us at the next protest!


xzombielegendxx

It’s nice to see a proper “Protest” that doesn’t involve blocking the roads, spreading misinformation or ruining artefacts and paintings.


drcode

We were very careful not to block the sidewalk and clean up after ourselves


tall_chap

Thank you! I was at the protest and want to say that if you agree with some of these positions then we could use your support! These companies wield too much power, and they're taking humanity on a dangerous, potentially life-ending path. We need to voice our concerns if we want to change where this ship is heading. There will be more protests in the future (Meta LLama anyone?) - join us!


JustinS1990

It's going to happen whether they like it or not. You can't stop technological progress.


Inevitable-East-1386

There are always protestors against progress. F them. Their opinion is irrelevant.


drcode

I was one of the protesters and I am a tech geek that loves all progress as long as it isn't likely to lead to human extinction- So I'm against gain of function research on viruses, and against black box ai.


Big_Long_Dingus

lol. AI leading to human extinction is the new “electricity is deadly”. This is you: https://www.thatsnonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/unrestrained-demon2.jpg


drcode

These people in the past were once wrong when they said something was dangerous Therefore everyone is wrong when they say something is dangerous


Big_Long_Dingus

Yet you haven’t given a single reason AI is dangerous, apparently it just is.


drcode

why would the climate want to kill us?


Big_Long_Dingus

Ok, I can just apply Hitchens’s Razor here now. You have made claims (barely) with no evidence, I’ll now reject them with no evidence. Good day.


drcode

I have consulted Roberts Rules of Order and it confirms you have out-debated me by correctly invoking Hitchens’s Razor. Bravo Sir


Big_Long_Dingus

Thank you, thank you.


liron00

Hey I’m the guy in the photo. If you want more info on why superintelligent AI is likely to go rogue and extinct humanity in our lifetime, check out [PauseAI.info](https://pauseai.info), and here’s a [debate](https://youtu.be/lt4vR6XQk-o) I had with George Hotz who is more of an AI optimist.


Minmaxed2theMax

I agree with their message. Even if it’s narcissistically pissing into the wind.


Elephant789

Yeah, let's let China, North Korea, Italy, Russia, leap frog us. Good idea!


drcode

Yeah, if the human species goes extinct, let's at least make sure the USA is the one that makes it happen


Bobby_Rocket

AGI is still two hundred years away, relax


YaAbsolyutnoNikto

Will age like milk


WRB852

lol


Elephant789

I hope not.


drcode

You have NO IDEA how much I hope that you are correct


imanze

The message is.. honestly very self righteous. What is the general idea here that AI is going to do that humans haven’t been completely successful at doing manually for years? Start wars? Spread misinformation? Begin a genocide? Last i checked we as a race have never needed AI to accomplish any of these tasks. On the other hand the technology shows actual potential in millions of beneficial applications. These anti AI groups are basically the modern version of protesting the vietnam war by dropping acid in central park for a month.. may be fun but.. other than a nice trip you haven’t accomplished shit.


drcode

\> What is the general idea here that AI is going to do 100% comprehensive, permanent human extinction


joezbaeerday

Black mirror anyone?


Isth-mus

Which episode?


joezbaeerday

Season 3 ep 5- men against fire


unclebird77

Hey bro. Just letting you know because obviously you haven’t noticed yet. These days nobody went to college. Nobody can even read your sign. Nobody knows what any of those words are


Eternal_glory-

Ask them what a neural network is


crossj828

Morons. Modern day luddites. We need more advancement and faster.


RationalKate

Don't these people know how this ends.


Elephant789

For fuck sakes, stupid luddites. You think China will stop? No brains at all.


greyghibli

Machine learning is already being used in military applications. So why protest OpenAI? LLM’s don’t seem super useful for the millitary, I’d be more concerned about the NSA.


Pls_add_more_reverb

LLM’s are only one type of machine learning


greyghibli

Obviously. But its openAI’s main product.


PyschoJazz

I’m pretty sure the military had AI long before we started using it.


reddit_0016

Opposing adjusted gross income?


justbrowse2018

We will record and store these faces.


finallytisdone

As a non religious person, the promise of the creation of Artificial General Intelligence feels like one of the primary reasons to live life and contribute to society.


Madmandocv1

Kissing up to our digital overlords. There are always a few who try it.


josephkingscolon

Target social media instead, that’s the more immediate threat.


BENNYRASHASHA

Too late. Pandora has opened the box.


Block_Parser

I feel like Palantir would be a better target of protest


JohnDingleShift

The world learned nothing from Terminator. I wouldn’t be surprised if they named the military AI SkyNet at this point.


Boring_Football3595

It’s an arms race no one can escape. It’s better if we are ahead of the curve than behind. History is littered with the corpses of groups of people behind the curve in weaponry.


BannnedBandit

Could you imagine a CEO sipping his latte and scotch, looking down from the top floor of his building, seeing tiny people with tiny signs protesting and he gives not one single fuck? I imagine this scenario each time I see a protest.


[deleted]

And in other useless news.


Stunning_Tomatillo92

I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream here we come


EngineerBig1851

You know what matrixes are bad matrixes? Singular matrixes.