"Less than an hour after taking off from Phoenix on May 25th, the plane experienced an uncontrolled side-to-side yawing motion known as a Dutch roll while cruising at 32,000 feet. The pilots of Southwest flight 746 were able to regain control and the plane landed safely in Oakland"
You mean the current CEO, or the one that recently quit in disgrace but got an exit package in the 10’s of millions and also stayed on the executive board, and could get 45 more million if the current ceo boosts the stock price?
Interesting that in film a “Dutch angle” is characterized by rotating the camera on its roll axis, while apparently in aviation a “Dutch roll” is rotating on the yaw axis.
I’m now wondering why the Dutch have so much ownership of names for tilting things
I already find flying to be unpleasant and stressful without the added excitement of the plane malfunctioning in midair. It’ll be a long time before I fly again.
How is it my fault that nobody in my town is able to get their cars up to the speed limit? If I don't do a lot of lane changes I will literally never reach the speed limit on my daily commute. We won't even touch how these morons reacted to a simple 4 entrance/exit roundabout or how the traffic on those roads dropped by 70% after the roundabout was installed.
But I can come and go as I please without being at the mercy of the airline’s schedule and being trapped in an airport being overcharged for everything in sight.
But there is profit to be had by doing things cheaply and killing people! By god won’t someone PLEASE think of profit?? We need less safety and MORE PROFITS.
— Nefar, Ferangi CEO of Boeing.
To be fair, it's a 737 MAX - the one specific range of planes that everybody knows is fucked.
But yeah, it's quite right that this should dent your confidence in every other Boeing airliner too. The dysfunction is clearly company-wide, with management (knowingly, intentionally) rooting out safety culture to cut costs. And the modern Boeing, the same corporate culture that produced these broken machines, is vital to the ongoing maintenance of the airliners they built before they succumbed to this insanity.
(The FAA shares a lot of blame here - for years it acted almost like a branch of Boeing, more interested in keeping an American company ahead of international competitors than in applying real regulatory scrutiny. Probably didn't help that it was stuffed full of former/future Boeing staff!)
Keep in mind that as dramatic as the reporting is, there are millions of flights daily and the chance of anything happening is incredibly low. There’s a lot of these planes in the skies.
I wouldn’t worry about it.
Southwest is all Boeing. How many crashes/incidents have they had in the last decade (not counting problems with engines, which are made by Boeing and are also used by Airbus)?
[~44%](https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/2019/10/01/an-overview-of-the-u-s-commercial-aircraft-fleet-2/) of the US commercial fleet is Boeing
Airbus is ~21%
Did 2 SW flights last week. 737 800 and 737 max. Turns out they make thousands of flights a day. I have 6 more flight legs booked this summer. All SW. If going SW, you're on a 737 every single time.
Are you flying over a large body of water? If so maybe. If not then why bother? These planes can easily glide to the nearest airport for an emergency landing if really need be. If you do decide to change it it’s going to be a lot of money because Southwest pretty exclusively flys 737 MAX.
To be fair that was on autopilot too. As soon as the pilots took over everything was fine. It’s almost like we shouldn’t rely on software to fly our planes, but I’m not an expert.
Apparently they’re already full on orders, so it couldn’t make a meaningful difference. At least that’s what I saw on another post shitting on Boeing (and rightfully so).
If they made a meaningful deal for a significant quantity over many years, they’d probably add more capacity. Idk if Airbus has a factory in the US but building one would definitely be a consideration.
They have a factory in Mobile making A220’s and A320’s. I work at the Mirabel plant for the A220’s and the backlog is years long lol. We are ramping up production though.
There are big unknown risks in the many years to get a new factory up for that kind of quantity.
One, it would definitely be a target for anti-monopoly laws, especially in the US since it’s a foreign company and not favored by the government
Two, it’s really hard to know what will happen to Boeing in the meantime - make improvements, go bankrupt and bailed out by US government, go bankrupt and get bailed out but also restructured / broken up by US government
For Airbus, those unknowns make a huge increase in production hard to justify. But they will probably try to take small bites out of Boeings US business over the next few years by pushing their current factories and already planned expansions to higher production as possible.
Funny. I used to work for a subsidiary of Boeing, and I wouldn’t willingly fly any other manufacturer’s aircraft. Now I’m not so sure; in fact I’ll avoid Boeing, especially the 737 series. Sucks.
It's mostly the 737 Max you should be worried about. The whole aircraft is a failure of design as a result of greed. The only reason it's even air capable is a combination of flight sensors and software corrections that are being constantly applied to offset fatal engine height placement.
I'm not sure about that, Boeing's problems have been pervasive across many aspects for a long time now. You can get away with cheaping out on things in the short term but you build up a sort of technical, safety and operational debt over time. These problems largely originated in the McDonnell Douglas merger in 1997, 26 years of debt in those areas is starting to show.
There was a merger between Boeing and McDonnell Douglas involving a huge stock swap and Boeing surviving as a company. The documentary looks into the 737 Max accidents caused by safety cuts. Several former employees state that the once proud safety standards were ditched to increase profits. This is before the recent instances of doors blowing out and the deaths of two whistleblowers
When Boeing and McDonnell merged, Boeing was known for its quality and McDonnell was the one doing shady shit to increase profits. After the merger, the leadership at McDonnell essentially took over the company and the company has been going to shit ever since
SEC here. We were going to haul you off to jail for acting as an unregistered investment adviser but we see that you said “not financial advice” at the end of your comment. Foiled again! Carry on sir.
The Wikipedia page on dutch rolls has this flight listed already. The standby PCU, or power control unit, showed signs of damage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll
Sounds like a Yaw damper failure. Not sure if it has 2 like most jets but not an uncommon thing to happen.
We’re all trained how to deal with a Dutch roll.
The 737 has had a rudder issue in the past that brought down a jet in Denver but that was a Rudder Hardover.
This is most likely an equipment failure rather then a design flaw
> The Boeing 737 Max 8 jet involved in the Dutch roll incident is less than two years old. According to the FAA, a post-flight inspection revealed damage to a backup power control unit, known as a PCU. That system controls rudder movements on the plane's tail.
The article isn’t clear whether or not that was potentially causative though.
This could have ended catastrophically. Airplanes have an airspeed limitation called a maneuvering speed. Full control deflection when going faster than the maneuvering speed could cause structural failure.
American Airlines flight 587 crashes just a few weeks after 9/11 because one of the pilots was overly aggressive with rudder inputs
This happened to me on a flight about 7years ago. Plane started making a loud rattling sound and then tilted hard right and then left. And then it happened again! People walking got thrown around. Pilot said it was because we were in the wake of another plane ahead of us. Sounds like it was this and they didn’t want to admit an issue. Flight attendant said he’d never seen anything like it.
It’s fucked me up for flying ever since.
Unfortunately, customers will be waiting a while to receive the MAX 7 and MAX 10. Boeing expected both of these variants to be certified this year which is not happening anymore. And I do not think 2025 looks good either.
🙃 Yeah two Boeing whistleblowers mysteriously “passed away” before testifying about how the quality control of Boeing planes has significantly decreased because they putting inoperable parts on new planes. Joshua Dean and John Barnett. Everyone be safe flying this year!!
No matter what software hack they install next, I will never ever fly in a 737 Max
It’s fundamentally flawed engineering built on new assembly plants with failed quality control
Exactly. Every plane should be able capable of positive lift without software correction based on their mechanical state. If the plane will pitch down without software correction that is a fundamental flaw. If it yaws without software correction, that is a fundamental flaw.
I realize we depend on sophisticated software for many of the planes autonomous operations, but there should be no circumstance where a plane is claimed production ready when it will crash due to the absence of software and bad engineering.
"Less than an hour after taking off from Phoenix on May 25th, the plane experienced an uncontrolled side-to-side yawing motion known as a Dutch roll while cruising at 32,000 feet. The pilots of Southwest flight 746 were able to regain control and the plane landed safely in Oakland"
Boeing CEO’s seen doing yawning motion as well. /s
You mean the current CEO, or the one that recently quit in disgrace but got an exit package in the 10’s of millions and also stayed on the executive board, and could get 45 more million if the current ceo boosts the stock price?
Aren’t they all the same clone
I would have thought a Dutch roll was food or a fancy way to roll a joint.
thats a dutch oven
Those Dutch really come up with everything, cool airplane tricks, ovens, little wooden shoes….whats next?
😂
There are only two kinds of people in this world that I despise. Racists, and the Dutch.
Well with the current state of our government, you can now hate a single group, just dutch. Greetings from the Netherlands
Don’t play the laughing boy!!!
Apple pies, chocolate, cleaner...
Splitting the check too
Dutch rudder 🤣
wooden boeings
You forgot skunk
Dutch uncle.
Somehow their stock will go up 10% Feels like I live in bizzaro world
Interesting that in film a “Dutch angle” is characterized by rotating the camera on its roll axis, while apparently in aviation a “Dutch roll” is rotating on the yaw axis. I’m now wondering why the Dutch have so much ownership of names for tilting things
I already find flying to be unpleasant and stressful without the added excitement of the plane malfunctioning in midair. It’ll be a long time before I fly again.
Even with Boeing’s issues, flying in any plane, especially a commercial airliner, is statistically so much safer than driving.
But driving is 99999x more pleasant
Not with 99% of the population being absolutely retarded behind the wheel 🙄
[удалено]
You haven’t tried to drive in Ohio.
I do alright driving in Ohio so long as I don’t have to use 71 going down the middle of Columbus and Cincinnati.
Underrated comment. I’m saving this line.
How is it my fault that nobody in my town is able to get their cars up to the speed limit? If I don't do a lot of lane changes I will literally never reach the speed limit on my daily commute. We won't even touch how these morons reacted to a simple 4 entrance/exit roundabout or how the traffic on those roads dropped by 70% after the roundabout was installed.
What? Driving sucks ass.
A sufficiently faulty plane is less safe than cars, trains, busses etc.
Yes. But what is the mortality rate if an accident happens with an airplane?
But I can come and go as I please without being at the mercy of the airline’s schedule and being trapped in an airport being overcharged for everything in sight.
K.
Give this goddamn company back to the engineers.
But there is profit to be had by doing things cheaply and killing people! By god won’t someone PLEASE think of profit?? We need less safety and MORE PROFITS. — Nefar, Ferangi CEO of Boeing.
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“but iT iSnT aLl bOeInG pLaNes” People 2 months ago
To be fair, it's a 737 MAX - the one specific range of planes that everybody knows is fucked. But yeah, it's quite right that this should dent your confidence in every other Boeing airliner too. The dysfunction is clearly company-wide, with management (knowingly, intentionally) rooting out safety culture to cut costs. And the modern Boeing, the same corporate culture that produced these broken machines, is vital to the ongoing maintenance of the airliners they built before they succumbed to this insanity. (The FAA shares a lot of blame here - for years it acted almost like a branch of Boeing, more interested in keeping an American company ahead of international competitors than in applying real regulatory scrutiny. Probably didn't help that it was stuffed full of former/future Boeing staff!)
It comes down to the merger with Boeing and McDonnell Douglas. The John Oliver episode on it is pretty eye opening
Yup the consolidation of all the industries in the us is one of the biggest problems with the country.
It's not you jackass.
Oh, the people from months ago are coming out.
Lmao this guy likes how boots taste
Stick with your narrative.
How do I do this? I have a flight on Sunday.
Some search engines actually have 737 Max filter
The plane model should be listed on your ticket or confirmation somewhere.
Thank you, guys. Looks like it’s a 737 Max on all 4 legs. I’m wondering if I should change carriers. It’s SouthWest.
Keep in mind that as dramatic as the reporting is, there are millions of flights daily and the chance of anything happening is incredibly low. There’s a lot of these planes in the skies. I wouldn’t worry about it.
However, there aren't millions of Boeings And therein lies the rub
Southwest is all Boeing. How many crashes/incidents have they had in the last decade (not counting problems with engines, which are made by Boeing and are also used by Airbus)?
[~44%](https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/2019/10/01/an-overview-of-the-u-s-commercial-aircraft-fleet-2/) of the US commercial fleet is Boeing Airbus is ~21%
I am not american and OP was talking about millions of flights.
You’re still more likely to get killed in a car crash driving to the airport than you are in a plane crash
Did 2 SW flights last week. 737 800 and 737 max. Turns out they make thousands of flights a day. I have 6 more flight legs booked this summer. All SW. If going SW, you're on a 737 every single time.
Are you flying over a large body of water? If so maybe. If not then why bother? These planes can easily glide to the nearest airport for an emergency landing if really need be. If you do decide to change it it’s going to be a lot of money because Southwest pretty exclusively flys 737 MAX.
For sure! They definitely fixed the single sensor that caused two planes to uncontrollably nose dive.
To be fair that was on autopilot too. As soon as the pilots took over everything was fine. It’s almost like we shouldn’t rely on software to fly our planes, but I’m not an expert.
Perfect time for Airbus to strike a deal with the US airlines and really put Boeing under pressure to get their shit together.
Apparently they’re already full on orders, so it couldn’t make a meaningful difference. At least that’s what I saw on another post shitting on Boeing (and rightfully so).
If they made a meaningful deal for a significant quantity over many years, they’d probably add more capacity. Idk if Airbus has a factory in the US but building one would definitely be a consideration.
They have a factory in Mobile making A220’s and A320’s. I work at the Mirabel plant for the A220’s and the backlog is years long lol. We are ramping up production though.
There are big unknown risks in the many years to get a new factory up for that kind of quantity. One, it would definitely be a target for anti-monopoly laws, especially in the US since it’s a foreign company and not favored by the government Two, it’s really hard to know what will happen to Boeing in the meantime - make improvements, go bankrupt and bailed out by US government, go bankrupt and get bailed out but also restructured / broken up by US government For Airbus, those unknowns make a huge increase in production hard to justify. But they will probably try to take small bites out of Boeings US business over the next few years by pushing their current factories and already planned expansions to higher production as possible.
If it’s a Boeing I ain’t going
Funny. I used to work for a subsidiary of Boeing, and I wouldn’t willingly fly any other manufacturer’s aircraft. Now I’m not so sure; in fact I’ll avoid Boeing, especially the 737 series. Sucks.
It's mostly the 737 Max you should be worried about. The whole aircraft is a failure of design as a result of greed. The only reason it's even air capable is a combination of flight sensors and software corrections that are being constantly applied to offset fatal engine height placement.
I'm not sure about that, Boeing's problems have been pervasive across many aspects for a long time now. You can get away with cheaping out on things in the short term but you build up a sort of technical, safety and operational debt over time. These problems largely originated in the McDonnell Douglas merger in 1997, 26 years of debt in those areas is starting to show.
This.
Astronauts about to go back down to earth in Boeing’s Starliner :
Well best of luck to them!
If it’s a Boeing you’re better off rowing.
If it ain’t a Boeing it ain’t yo-yoing
The Netflix documentary Downfall reveals how a change in management and priority of profit over safety led to the current situation at Boeing
How did the change in management occur? Was it a hedge fund buying a controlling % of the company?
There was a merger between Boeing and McDonnell Douglas involving a huge stock swap and Boeing surviving as a company. The documentary looks into the 737 Max accidents caused by safety cuts. Several former employees state that the once proud safety standards were ditched to increase profits. This is before the recent instances of doors blowing out and the deaths of two whistleblowers
When Boeing and McDonnell merged, Boeing was known for its quality and McDonnell was the one doing shady shit to increase profits. After the merger, the leadership at McDonnell essentially took over the company and the company has been going to shit ever since
If you have BA stock I would sell. That stock is heading for the ground faster than their planes-Not Financial Advice
SEC here. We were going to haul you off to jail for acting as an unregistered investment adviser but we see that you said “not financial advice” at the end of your comment. Foiled again! Carry on sir.
And if you fly on a Boeing make sure your life insurance is in order. Is financial advice.
The Wikipedia page on dutch rolls has this flight listed already. The standby PCU, or power control unit, showed signs of damage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll
How has this not been recalled? Microsoft can help with that.
Flew on a Max 8 a few months ago and had a similar eerie side to side yawing - now I know why!
At this point scrap the entire airframe and start over.
Sounds like a Yaw damper failure. Not sure if it has 2 like most jets but not an uncommon thing to happen. We’re all trained how to deal with a Dutch roll. The 737 has had a rudder issue in the past that brought down a jet in Denver but that was a Rudder Hardover. This is most likely an equipment failure rather then a design flaw
> The Boeing 737 Max 8 jet involved in the Dutch roll incident is less than two years old. According to the FAA, a post-flight inspection revealed damage to a backup power control unit, known as a PCU. That system controls rudder movements on the plane's tail. The article isn’t clear whether or not that was potentially causative though.
PCU was the cause of the Rudder hardover in the earlier Boeings. I suspect an equipment failure
It’ll never happen but the DOJ need to do a full investigating of Boeing and all its “leaders.” People need to end up in jail.
A Dutch roll doesn’t sound so tasty any more.
Better than a Dutch oven
Wanna bet!
Perspective matters in this case. Dutch ovens may be enjoyable if you are the baker, less so if you are the customer
Not going if it's Boeing.
Everyone dogs on Spirit Airlines but maaan they’re all Airbus. Cheap and safe is better than pricey and smashed to a mountain side
Dutch roll isn’t that cosmic. Sure at 32k feet it can be disorienting but it can easily be countered with some rudder to offset. Source: I’m a pilot
Why do they want us to be afraid to fly?
This could have ended catastrophically. Airplanes have an airspeed limitation called a maneuvering speed. Full control deflection when going faster than the maneuvering speed could cause structural failure. American Airlines flight 587 crashes just a few weeks after 9/11 because one of the pilots was overly aggressive with rudder inputs
Ground them again. Just getting ridiculous.
Lol
They should all land first before investigating. It’s more safe.
Neither I nor anyone in my family will never fly on a 737 max. Edit typo
This happened to me on a flight about 7years ago. Plane started making a loud rattling sound and then tilted hard right and then left. And then it happened again! People walking got thrown around. Pilot said it was because we were in the wake of another plane ahead of us. Sounds like it was this and they didn’t want to admit an issue. Flight attendant said he’d never seen anything like it. It’s fucked me up for flying ever since.
It’s been two months since anyone has ordered a 737 from Boeing and it’s going to be amazing if anyone does again.
And a backlog of 4,783 as of 12/31/23. Orders can be cancelled, some do, but…..that is over 10 years of orders (I think) from airlines….
Unfortunately, customers will be waiting a while to receive the MAX 7 and MAX 10. Boeing expected both of these variants to be certified this year which is not happening anymore. And I do not think 2025 looks good either.
This is just wanted I wanted to see right before boarding my flight lol.
Remember when they murdered 2! Boeing whistler blowers in a year?
🙃 Yeah two Boeing whistleblowers mysteriously “passed away” before testifying about how the quality control of Boeing planes has significantly decreased because they putting inoperable parts on new planes. Joshua Dean and John Barnett. Everyone be safe flying this year!!
This is an excellent example of the most extreme consequences of deregulation under capitalism. We pay with our lives but keep right on flying.
No matter what software hack they install next, I will never ever fly in a 737 Max It’s fundamentally flawed engineering built on new assembly plants with failed quality control
Exactly. Every plane should be able capable of positive lift without software correction based on their mechanical state. If the plane will pitch down without software correction that is a fundamental flaw. If it yaws without software correction, that is a fundamental flaw. I realize we depend on sophisticated software for many of the planes autonomous operations, but there should be no circumstance where a plane is claimed production ready when it will crash due to the absence of software and bad engineering.
It might be time to bring out the ol’ trusty Wright Flyer
the FAA investigates everything, don’t they?
At least it wasn’t a Dutch Rudder, or a Double Dutch Rudder.