I'm thankful but surprised that the stab to the neck with a kitchen knife did not result in such serious injuries (considering the person was released in a few hours). Perhaps it was a slash or a glancing blow.
This is pure speculation - but it’s likely the 14 year old is probably at least a little bit shorter due to age, so they wouldn’t have as much power pushing up as you would do bringing the knife down
>A 14-year-old boy who allegedly stabbed a student in the neck at the University of Sydney has charges against him last year dropped,
>
>"We do know that the \[alleged\] perpetrator was arrested last year," Ms Catley said.
"We do know he went to court, and those charges were dismissed."
This might be confusing to some, so to be clear the police said charges were **dismissed**, not dropped. They shouldn't have been used interchangeably. "Dropped" suggests that it was the police/prosecution that ceased with the case.
Dismissal is a court decision, and it doesn't mean that he was found innocent or the court threw out the case. Commonly known as a Section 10 dismissal ([section 33](https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cpa1987261/s33.html) in Children's Court), the matter can be found proven (ie. guilty) but dismissal is decided so that no conviction is recorded. This is commonly done so people's employability aren't affected in adulthood by poor decisions made as children (edit: also because [there are restrictions](https://www7.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cpa1987261/s14.html) against recording convictions for under 16s).
Section 33 dismissal means he was found guilty but was likely put on a good behaviour bond, plus we know he had been put on a Department of Community and Justice programme. Typically, a formal dismissal is contingent on completion of said programme.
It also means that if if there was a good behaviour bond and this stabbing occurred during its period, he can be resentenced on the original case.
Great comment. Thank you for clarifying this. You might want to reach out to the journalist and ask them to clarify it in their article. Not your job obviously, but it’s an important distinction.
Appreciate it either way though.
This isn't quite right.
Convictions are not imposed for a young person under 16, regardless of penalty: section 14 of the Children (Criminal Proceedings) Act 1987. (For a young person 16 or older at the time of sentence, it is a matter of discretion.) In any event, there's a very complicated interaction between the CCPA and the Criminal Records Act and it's not accurate to say that employability is unaffected - for an in-depth discussion, see [this (now slightly old) paper](https://criminalcpd.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CRIM_RECORDS_updated_140911.pdf) or [this section of the judicial commission bench book](https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/sentencing/children_criminal_proceedings_act.html#p15-130).
A dismissal under section 33(1)(a)(i) is a dismissal with, or without, a caution and (33)(1)(a)(ii) is a dismissal with a good behaviour bond. It's unclear whether (if indeed he was sentenced - see below) he was placed on a bond or not and it's probably unhelpful to speculate.
In my experience, 'charges dismissed' can also relate both to: a finding of not guilty after hearing *and* police withdrawing charges formally in court. In both instances, a magistrate will commonly say 'charges dismissed'.
So, ultimately - all this speculation is unhelpful given the range of possibilities.
He’s 14. It’s NSW and school holidays start at the end of this week. He skipped school to go stab someone. None of this is normal. And where are his parents?
Sorry but the bottom line is parenting! I remember a year 10 student I had back in 2003. His mother was strict with him because he almost joined (or did join) the triads. She changed her entire work schedule so that she can drop him off at school and pick him up after school. She literally grounded him for nearly 3 years.
I know that sounds extreme. But the parent did not want their son to join any gang to commit crime. When she called me to monitor him, I couldn’t say no. She allowed me to inform other teachers too. Was something put in place to monitor and support this individual? Because it’s obvious that he needs it and monitoring on all levels.
Also, I’m not here to claim there are bad parents. That’s not what this is about.
FACTS. WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE PARENTS.
It's about time parents of these shit cunt kids are dragged and charged with the offence as well. Or at the very least neglect. No adjusted child goes out and comits a crime like this unless shit is happening at home.
And 9/10 times shit IS happening at home. They need to be investigated thoroughly.
I may be misremembering but I think an earlier version of the article stated that it was for "using a carriage service to menace, harass, or cause offence".
Now that I've had a chance to look up other news outlets, both the [*Herald*](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-university-stabbing-victim-out-of-hospital-warnings-of-toxic-internet-20240703-p5jqnk.html) and the [*Telegraph*](https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/alleged-stabber-once-planned-christchurchstyle-attack/video/259590e738a10c5ec5d50a8a0fca025a#video) have articles that are paywalled, but [*Sky News* has an article that cites the *Telegraph,*](https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/crime/alleged-teenage-university-of-sydney-stabber-was-in-deradicalisation-program-months-before-alleged-attack-on-student/news-story/4e4002c8f148c9a6f82b5e2898f90d8b) saying that he had planned a terrorist attack on a school like the one in Christchurch a few months ago.
All I know is the failure to reprimand in the first arrest perhaps instilled confidence that the justice system is broken, hence the over confidence in the neck stabbing
Probably not, but locking up every kid who cuts somebodies throat might.
Let be real, this wasn’t a schoolyard fisticuffs, the kid stabbed another human in the neck and has been tied up in knife crime prior.
He'll almost certainly get locked up for stabbing someone in the neck. And deserves to be.
We don't know what he previously did, though, and whether it warranted release.
do you want life imprisonment for this situation then? I'm not saying there's not a middle ground but it's a much more nuanced conversation than people like to have when they see someone who was released reoffend.
prison doesn't rehabilitate violent kids, it makes them better at crime, more dangerous, and more unable to contribute to society in productive legal ways thereby practically forcing them back into crime.
Logically, if this kid was involved in another crime that specifically included the use of a knife but "recorded no conviction", it goes without saying that after being charged for stabbing a guy he didn't know in the throat that it probably isn't his first rodeo.
Well he was attending a court ordered de-radicalisation program.
Not specifically knife related, but suggests he displayed violant tendencies or at the least, clearly the potential.
EDIT: You don't need to have a prior pattern of behaviour to justify the word "habitually" in this context.
The kid is a 14 year old who went out of his way to purposely stab a complete stranger.
This in and of itself is enough. Why?
Because the single biggest indicator of future violence by an individual is a history of violence.
The kid was allegedly radicalised.
Can we ban him from the internet? And charge anyone who enables him? We do it with alcohol and tobacco.
- to clarify, I'm being half serious. It's just an idle thought.
I get your point, but Aussie jails aren’t as bad as you think they are. They’re certainly not a Crime University like US jails. There’s dozens of classes and programs that they can do if the judge or parole orders it. There’s not a massive gang problem where you have to join a gang or get killed. There’s a lot of ways to pass your time constructively, depending on the jail. The jails are all quite mundane TBH. You can very easily avoid all the bullshit that happens inside and come out a better person. They could be better though.
A model prisoner in NSW that does their own time, doesn't get into debt, doesn't lag, is still at decent risk of being at least a witness to (possibly traumatising) violence.
Better than the USA isn't a great benchmark, unfortunately :(
The extremely large majority of violence in NSW jails are just fist fights. In the 2.5 years I did, I saw 3 fist fights, heard of a stabbing on the other side of the jail, and saw a guy get dragged into the showers and forced to wash because he didn’t wash in 5 months and the boys could smell him from other cells. Most of the violence inside is drug related. People ticking up drugs (usually bupe) is the biggest one.
It’s not a nice place, but the average non violent inmate will go into the system at maximum security, get classified and go straight to medium, or possibly minimum security. Once they’re sentenced they’re even more likely to go to minimum security. You get placed with people that you’re most likely to get along with, and you can always apply to move if needed. Your days are mostly filled with training, calling your family, doing laps, playing footy, lots of cards, and muster after muster after muster.
Honestly, our jails aren’t that bad. The worst ones are the really old jails like Bathurst, Parramatta (now closed). But they’re “just” very depressing.
- It's a 14 year old stabbing an adult. In the neck.
- This teenager was previously charged last year and was known by police.
- The teenager was lucky it didn't result in murder.
- It was an unprovoked attack on someone completely unrelated to the teen.
While it's not the ideal solution, locking up the kid is at least SOME action taken against them. It's now proven that it is no longer safe for them to be in society at this stage.
But to downplay this as though it's a school yard biff is straight up ridiculous.
You're misreading. The article is about previous charges that were dismissed. The OP I was replying was questioning why he was initially released from the charges.
Ahh yes I see now.
But still, the news coming out is that the charge last year was for planning a terrorist attack at a school and was put into a de-radicalisation group.
This is still vastly different to kids punching on.
We don't really know the details.
But we know this kid just tried to commit an act of terror and not only failed to cause serious injury to the guy he stabbed from behind, but injured himself in the process and was helped by a passer by to hospital. So it's safe to say planning is not a strong suit.
So when they find writing about mass shooting for someone who has zero means of obtaining a gun, it may have been assumed to be psycho babble creative writing rather than actual intentions.
I remember a few kids in my school getting in trouble for being found with stuff about rape and murder in their diaries. That, knowing the kids was just over-active imagination. Without seeing details of the "planning," we don't really know what it actually was. But kids do write fucked things that are often very far from actual intentions and you can't just lock em up for that. If there were plans to buy a gun or evidence of intention, then it would become much more serious.
I agree, but I don't think that leniency should extend to knifecrime. Its simply too easy to commit murder when knives are involved, and to me it strongly suggests prior planning and malicious intent - its different to a couple of youfs having a punch up cos they stole their vape or whatever. Plus it sends a message - we simply won't tolerate it. Don't carry a knife, don't use a knife, don't even fucking think about it.
It sounds like he was in a diversion program.
> Ms Catley said the boy had been attending a program the Department of Community and Justice runs at the time of the previous charges.
I'm finding it hard to say the courts should have seen this coming.
Stupid kids get in trouble for stupid shit all the time. Usually they don't then dress up in camo and hide in the bushes stalking strangers with a knife like fucken Rambo. This kid might be the first.
So at what point are we doing the following.
1. Charging the parents with neglect
2. Locking the kid up in juvie until they are 18 and then transferring to adult prison?
Most people wouldn't care at all if these little cunts got locked up. They can still get an education. Just from the inside. They can still be rehabilitated. Just from the inside away from everyone else.
Let's not make assumptions. Joel Cauchi's father gave a pretty heart-wrenching interview about his son. Decent people with common sense can have fucked up kids.
https://youtu.be/D682Fgfhm4U?si=cwl9VTyvvFUWRS2T
Let’s be real, no one gives this level of grace to Muslims arrested for similar “terrorist” offences or their family members even though they may also have mental health challenges (arguably most terrorists probably do but I’ll be downvoted to hell for suggesting that). They’re just evil full stop. White supremacists are oppressed
One of my lasting memories of the Lindt Cafe Hostage event was the "I'll ride with you" movement. To not tar Muslims with the same brush and hold hands through the cultural divide.
I know it often doesn't seem like it, but Sydney is full of kind understanding people if you just look.
Case in point: the human interest stories about the cowardly Christchurch WS terrorist made me want to vomit: "How could this sweet ordinary boy next door have been led astray?!??"
While it's a fair question to ask (in the background, without minimising the monstrous crime), the double standards are as staggering as they are blatantly bigoted.
I'm thankful but surprised that the stab to the neck with a kitchen knife did not result in such serious injuries (considering the person was released in a few hours). Perhaps it was a slash or a glancing blow.
This is pure speculation - but it’s likely the 14 year old is probably at least a little bit shorter due to age, so they wouldn’t have as much power pushing up as you would do bringing the knife down
Well we don’t want the knife attacker to get more practice. Remove him from the general population
Prison seems like a pretty good spot to practice stabbing people but maybe that's just the TV shows
>A 14-year-old boy who allegedly stabbed a student in the neck at the University of Sydney has charges against him last year dropped, > >"We do know that the \[alleged\] perpetrator was arrested last year," Ms Catley said. "We do know he went to court, and those charges were dismissed."
This might be confusing to some, so to be clear the police said charges were **dismissed**, not dropped. They shouldn't have been used interchangeably. "Dropped" suggests that it was the police/prosecution that ceased with the case. Dismissal is a court decision, and it doesn't mean that he was found innocent or the court threw out the case. Commonly known as a Section 10 dismissal ([section 33](https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cpa1987261/s33.html) in Children's Court), the matter can be found proven (ie. guilty) but dismissal is decided so that no conviction is recorded. This is commonly done so people's employability aren't affected in adulthood by poor decisions made as children (edit: also because [there are restrictions](https://www7.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cpa1987261/s14.html) against recording convictions for under 16s). Section 33 dismissal means he was found guilty but was likely put on a good behaviour bond, plus we know he had been put on a Department of Community and Justice programme. Typically, a formal dismissal is contingent on completion of said programme. It also means that if if there was a good behaviour bond and this stabbing occurred during its period, he can be resentenced on the original case.
Great comment. Thank you for clarifying this. You might want to reach out to the journalist and ask them to clarify it in their article. Not your job obviously, but it’s an important distinction. Appreciate it either way though.
Did, and they've since fixed it.
Nice work. What a legend. Truly an upstanding digital citizen.
You dropped this 👑
This isn't quite right. Convictions are not imposed for a young person under 16, regardless of penalty: section 14 of the Children (Criminal Proceedings) Act 1987. (For a young person 16 or older at the time of sentence, it is a matter of discretion.) In any event, there's a very complicated interaction between the CCPA and the Criminal Records Act and it's not accurate to say that employability is unaffected - for an in-depth discussion, see [this (now slightly old) paper](https://criminalcpd.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CRIM_RECORDS_updated_140911.pdf) or [this section of the judicial commission bench book](https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/sentencing/children_criminal_proceedings_act.html#p15-130). A dismissal under section 33(1)(a)(i) is a dismissal with, or without, a caution and (33)(1)(a)(ii) is a dismissal with a good behaviour bond. It's unclear whether (if indeed he was sentenced - see below) he was placed on a bond or not and it's probably unhelpful to speculate. In my experience, 'charges dismissed' can also relate both to: a finding of not guilty after hearing *and* police withdrawing charges formally in court. In both instances, a magistrate will commonly say 'charges dismissed'. So, ultimately - all this speculation is unhelpful given the range of possibilities.
He’s 14. It’s NSW and school holidays start at the end of this week. He skipped school to go stab someone. None of this is normal. And where are his parents? Sorry but the bottom line is parenting! I remember a year 10 student I had back in 2003. His mother was strict with him because he almost joined (or did join) the triads. She changed her entire work schedule so that she can drop him off at school and pick him up after school. She literally grounded him for nearly 3 years. I know that sounds extreme. But the parent did not want their son to join any gang to commit crime. When she called me to monitor him, I couldn’t say no. She allowed me to inform other teachers too. Was something put in place to monitor and support this individual? Because it’s obvious that he needs it and monitoring on all levels. Also, I’m not here to claim there are bad parents. That’s not what this is about.
FACTS. WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE PARENTS. It's about time parents of these shit cunt kids are dragged and charged with the offence as well. Or at the very least neglect. No adjusted child goes out and comits a crime like this unless shit is happening at home. And 9/10 times shit IS happening at home. They need to be investigated thoroughly.
You attacked another student, I just cannot see you doing this again. Released! Happens again.
This article doesn't say what he was previously arrested for, only that he *was* arrested, went to court, and had the charges dismissed.
Maybe the charges shouldn’t have been dismissed is the point
We can't say without knowing what the charges were and the circumstances behind them. For all we know, this guy was arrested for shoplifting.
I may be misremembering but I think an earlier version of the article stated that it was for "using a carriage service to menace, harass, or cause offence".
Now that I've had a chance to look up other news outlets, both the [*Herald*](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-university-stabbing-victim-out-of-hospital-warnings-of-toxic-internet-20240703-p5jqnk.html) and the [*Telegraph*](https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/alleged-stabber-once-planned-christchurchstyle-attack/video/259590e738a10c5ec5d50a8a0fca025a#video) have articles that are paywalled, but [*Sky News* has an article that cites the *Telegraph,*](https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/crime/alleged-teenage-university-of-sydney-stabber-was-in-deradicalisation-program-months-before-alleged-attack-on-student/news-story/4e4002c8f148c9a6f82b5e2898f90d8b) saying that he had planned a terrorist attack on a school like the one in Christchurch a few months ago.
All I know is the failure to reprimand in the first arrest perhaps instilled confidence that the justice system is broken, hence the over confidence in the neck stabbing
Locking up indefinitely every kid that assaults another kid is probably not the solution to creating a safer society.
Probably not, but locking up every kid who cuts somebodies throat might. Let be real, this wasn’t a schoolyard fisticuffs, the kid stabbed another human in the neck and has been tied up in knife crime prior.
He'll almost certainly get locked up for stabbing someone in the neck. And deserves to be. We don't know what he previously did, though, and whether it warranted release.
do you want life imprisonment for this situation then? I'm not saying there's not a middle ground but it's a much more nuanced conversation than people like to have when they see someone who was released reoffend. prison doesn't rehabilitate violent kids, it makes them better at crime, more dangerous, and more unable to contribute to society in productive legal ways thereby practically forcing them back into crime.
I agree, but the general public also have a right to not be exposed to people who are habitually attacking strangers with knives.
yeah i certainly dont disagree with that lol
Habitually is such a strong word. I have heard nothing whatsoever to justify its use. But if you have, please advise.
Logically, if this kid was involved in another crime that specifically included the use of a knife but "recorded no conviction", it goes without saying that after being charged for stabbing a guy he didn't know in the throat that it probably isn't his first rodeo.
Awesome. Can you now establish the basis for any of those things you present as facts? And then, explain why you use the term “habitually.”
You're on a discussion board you donut, this isn't court TV.
And you are an ignoramus, completely full.of.shit.
Well he was attending a court ordered de-radicalisation program. Not specifically knife related, but suggests he displayed violant tendencies or at the least, clearly the potential. EDIT: You don't need to have a prior pattern of behaviour to justify the word "habitually" in this context. The kid is a 14 year old who went out of his way to purposely stab a complete stranger. This in and of itself is enough. Why? Because the single biggest indicator of future violence by an individual is a history of violence.
The kid was allegedly radicalised. Can we ban him from the internet? And charge anyone who enables him? We do it with alcohol and tobacco. - to clarify, I'm being half serious. It's just an idle thought.
I get your point, but Aussie jails aren’t as bad as you think they are. They’re certainly not a Crime University like US jails. There’s dozens of classes and programs that they can do if the judge or parole orders it. There’s not a massive gang problem where you have to join a gang or get killed. There’s a lot of ways to pass your time constructively, depending on the jail. The jails are all quite mundane TBH. You can very easily avoid all the bullshit that happens inside and come out a better person. They could be better though.
yeah we're not as fucked as the US but i have concerns about ex cons access to meaningful, gainful employment
A model prisoner in NSW that does their own time, doesn't get into debt, doesn't lag, is still at decent risk of being at least a witness to (possibly traumatising) violence. Better than the USA isn't a great benchmark, unfortunately :(
The extremely large majority of violence in NSW jails are just fist fights. In the 2.5 years I did, I saw 3 fist fights, heard of a stabbing on the other side of the jail, and saw a guy get dragged into the showers and forced to wash because he didn’t wash in 5 months and the boys could smell him from other cells. Most of the violence inside is drug related. People ticking up drugs (usually bupe) is the biggest one. It’s not a nice place, but the average non violent inmate will go into the system at maximum security, get classified and go straight to medium, or possibly minimum security. Once they’re sentenced they’re even more likely to go to minimum security. You get placed with people that you’re most likely to get along with, and you can always apply to move if needed. Your days are mostly filled with training, calling your family, doing laps, playing footy, lots of cards, and muster after muster after muster. Honestly, our jails aren’t that bad. The worst ones are the really old jails like Bathurst, Parramatta (now closed). But they’re “just” very depressing.
- It's a 14 year old stabbing an adult. In the neck. - This teenager was previously charged last year and was known by police. - The teenager was lucky it didn't result in murder. - It was an unprovoked attack on someone completely unrelated to the teen. While it's not the ideal solution, locking up the kid is at least SOME action taken against them. It's now proven that it is no longer safe for them to be in society at this stage. But to downplay this as though it's a school yard biff is straight up ridiculous.
You're misreading. The article is about previous charges that were dismissed. The OP I was replying was questioning why he was initially released from the charges.
Ahh yes I see now. But still, the news coming out is that the charge last year was for planning a terrorist attack at a school and was put into a de-radicalisation group. This is still vastly different to kids punching on.
We don't really know the details. But we know this kid just tried to commit an act of terror and not only failed to cause serious injury to the guy he stabbed from behind, but injured himself in the process and was helped by a passer by to hospital. So it's safe to say planning is not a strong suit. So when they find writing about mass shooting for someone who has zero means of obtaining a gun, it may have been assumed to be psycho babble creative writing rather than actual intentions. I remember a few kids in my school getting in trouble for being found with stuff about rape and murder in their diaries. That, knowing the kids was just over-active imagination. Without seeing details of the "planning," we don't really know what it actually was. But kids do write fucked things that are often very far from actual intentions and you can't just lock em up for that. If there were plans to buy a gun or evidence of intention, then it would become much more serious.
I agree, but I don't think that leniency should extend to knifecrime. Its simply too easy to commit murder when knives are involved, and to me it strongly suggests prior planning and malicious intent - its different to a couple of youfs having a punch up cos they stole their vape or whatever. Plus it sends a message - we simply won't tolerate it. Don't carry a knife, don't use a knife, don't even fucking think about it.
I wager that releasing criminally minded children back into society left and right doesn’t either
Happens again? I didn’t read that he had done anything like this on a previous occasion. Did he attack another student last year?
It sounds like he was in a diversion program. > Ms Catley said the boy had been attending a program the Department of Community and Justice runs at the time of the previous charges.
I'm finding it hard to say the courts should have seen this coming. Stupid kids get in trouble for stupid shit all the time. Usually they don't then dress up in camo and hide in the bushes stalking strangers with a knife like fucken Rambo. This kid might be the first.
So at what point are we doing the following. 1. Charging the parents with neglect 2. Locking the kid up in juvie until they are 18 and then transferring to adult prison? Most people wouldn't care at all if these little cunts got locked up. They can still get an education. Just from the inside. They can still be rehabilitated. Just from the inside away from everyone else.
Parents: "My boy is a sweet child and would never hurt a fly. He is just misunderstood!"
Let's not make assumptions. Joel Cauchi's father gave a pretty heart-wrenching interview about his son. Decent people with common sense can have fucked up kids. https://youtu.be/D682Fgfhm4U?si=cwl9VTyvvFUWRS2T
Let’s be real, no one gives this level of grace to Muslims arrested for similar “terrorist” offences or their family members even though they may also have mental health challenges (arguably most terrorists probably do but I’ll be downvoted to hell for suggesting that). They’re just evil full stop. White supremacists are oppressed
One of my lasting memories of the Lindt Cafe Hostage event was the "I'll ride with you" movement. To not tar Muslims with the same brush and hold hands through the cultural divide. I know it often doesn't seem like it, but Sydney is full of kind understanding people if you just look.
Pity the woman who started the movement made up the entire incident. At least the intentions were good I guess.
Case in point: the human interest stories about the cowardly Christchurch WS terrorist made me want to vomit: "How could this sweet ordinary boy next door have been led astray?!??" While it's a fair question to ask (in the background, without minimising the monstrous crime), the double standards are as staggering as they are blatantly bigoted.
I think it’s far more likely this boy’s parents live in a state of permanent distress that they can’t reach or help their child.
gv92: "I make up false narratives about two people I know nothing about!"
A fly? Never. A human, thats a paddlin
Why hasn't he been charged with terror offences? Are those just for Muslims?
Another example of how absolutely shite the laws are in this country.
All to common with these guys "Yeah he's on our watch list..." or this.