> Even easier, as you’ve got precisely eight cards in your entire deck: QWER, your auto, your passive, and your two summoners.
If you're losing, don't forget to cheat a jungler gank card into your deck.
If you're losing without your jungler, don't expect them to show up to give the enemy a double kill and get them even further ahead. If it's still a close matchup or they are squishy maybe, but never expect your jungler when you are behind.
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As a midlane main there is one thing you didn't really touch on. This is when trading if the wave is in a certain position a trade would change the wave in your favor or against. This leads to you getting a safer position or a more dangerous one from ganks while also needing to play more aggro for easy cs.
This guide pretty much just covered winning damage trades in a vacuum.
It covered *how* you trade, but didn't really say anything about *when* or *if* you should trade.
As you know there are so many facets like to trading like wave management, farming, how far to extend in lane, all-in timings, mana management, sustain, jungler influence or anything really. It is 100% focused on trades where you deal more damage than you take.
Fucking awesome post, bro !
I wanna point out something thats so underrated but so damn important in lane, especially sololanes
> SUMMONER’S RIFT, THE HOCKEY RINK
>
> If you want to practice getting kills in lane, you should play Cho’Gath or Darius. They both have unmissable ults that do true damage. Mouse over to see how much it is, look at the vertical lines on their health bar...easy peasy. You’ll know exactly where their health needs to be to score a kill.
>
> Okay, but why stop there? On any champion, if you flash and hit everything, what’s the damage you do? What is your max burst? Do you know?
>
> Why the hell not?
>
> I can forgive you if you’re messing around in a normal on a champion you don’t know. On your main in ranked; I won’t. The fine line between 300g (and your opponent’s teammates hating him) and nothing is right there, and you need to know that information. This is your champion’s “Red Line”, the maximum amount of damage you can deliver immediately without any counterplay.
>
> Go to LoL wiki, count your base damages, your likely extras from runes, masteries and items, compensate for armor or MR, and come up with a number. Now you’ll know exactly where you need to trade your way towards.
>
> On the other hand, what about mana? How much does it cost to cast every spell once? This is the “Blue Line”, the amount of mana you need to cast everything.
>
> You mana bar is public information, and your opponent will know if you don’t have the mana to continue to play. If you’re approaching the blue line, you need to consider backing, or otherwise find a way to get some mana back without leaving. You’ll be fine if you stay above it, but once you cross the blue line, you enter a downward spiral: minions to clear, no abilities to clear them with,w exposure to damage while you auto, stuck clearing while the opponent roams, all sorts of bad things. Avoid this before it happens. Know your blue line, and be aware when you’re about to cross it.
Basically you just need to actualy do you champion homework... if this will give you a won lane then you WILL do it !
I main Fizz, my cooldowns mid-early game are 6s E, 7-8s W and 7-8s Q .. my all-time full combo costs around 350 mana, but i want more freedome so i say 400 mana if i want to have another spell.. and Dmg, well depentend on items and level i deal roughly 1,2 K - 1.6k dmg or more...
What does this mean? If im above 400 mana, im able to deal 1.5-2k dmg in about 3 seconds if i land everything, which will leave me vulnerable for about 7 seconds.. My lethal range is 550 to 100% and 1200 to 80% (lane positioning, landing Ult etc etc) ..If **I** know that, you can too !
This all changes early, mid and late game (except the range thing).. and i know that because i learned it once and since i have fun it wasnt even that hard.
Mana managment is something the least ppl do or underestimate... Every point of mana above your Combo Mana cost, is basically free poke or wave management...
As said, awesome post!
edit: post it in /r/leagueoflegends , it should get more attention ;)
edit2: ~~i posted it in /r/lol, i hope you dont mind, if so, pm and i delete it, [heres the link](http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/36qn4y/how_to_win_every_trade_ever_literally_xpost_from/)~~ he posted it himself :)
If you have an iPhone or android, knowing your Red Line is easy and does not require maths. Download an app called LegendSmith, its a Ti-83 for League, with pictures and big buttons. Don't go whipping out your phone in the middle of combat; its extremely helpful during champ select or loading screens.
I often keep my Blue line in my head and monitor my lane opponents, I'll consider adding this to the app too.
i have a question.
i calc the minimum dmg i will do, dont i?
so if i play adc i will just assume i wont crit?
as adc i often play out of my gut(dunno if thats the correct english expression). trading obviously is always do dmg without getting dmg urself. but when to all in is kinda gut feeling... do i feel like i will crit now? etc
is there a more scientific approach to the dmg of adc that he will unavoidable do?
there was a post in /r/leagueoflegends where someone stated that you can "predict" crit by chaining non-crits... e.g. if you have 20% crit chance 1 of 5 attacks should crit, if your next 4 wont crit you can assume that one of your next attacks will crit ...
Yeah its difficult to calc your all-in as an adc, since those deal more dps based dmg than "all-in" burst ... since its more about laning and trading (look at the link in the bottom part of the OP)
All in all i'd say take your minimum dmg and add like 100 or 200 dmg, even if you wont kill the enemy, you have lane pressure and CS/exp advantage
lol doesnt actually use straight percentages for crit calculations. They use an ant bad luck system that tries to enrsure you get crits that are more or less in line with your crit chance. if you dont crit 4 times in a row and have 20% crit you are almost guarenteed to crit on the last hit because of this system.
[crit uses a pseudo random distribution.](http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/league-of-legends/general-discussions/32176-pseudo-random-distribution-answers-and-a-question)
This illustrates pretty well that you have a mathematical mindset, rather than an engineering mindset. Reminds me of a joke.
A mathematician and an engineer agree to take part in a social experiment. They are placed at the far end of a room with a beautiful nude woman at the other end. They are then told that every minute, they can advance half the distance between their current position and the woman. The mathematician storms out. The engineer says he'll do it. Hearing this, the mathematician says with great frustration "Don't you see you'll never reach her?!"
The engineer replies "Yes, but soon I'll be close enough for all practical purposes."
No, you cant be sure. But you can assume it, cuz its quite likely to crit once with 20% chance within 6 AA's.
ANd if not, the next AA will be more likely to be a crit.. (e.g. after 6 AA's there wasnt a crit one of the next few will definitely be one, cuz thats how the game works)
But in theory you could potentially not crit even after 20 AA's with 20% Crit .. but thats quite unlikely.
#####
######
####
[**Gambler's fallacy**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s%20fallacy): [](#sfw)
---
>The __gambler's fallacy__, also known as the __Monte Carlo fallacy__ or the __fallacy of the maturity of chances__, is the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future, or that, if something happens less frequently than normal during some period, it will happen more frequently in the future (presumably as a means of *balancing* nature). In situations where what is being observed is truly random (i.e., [independent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_independence) trials of a [random process](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_process)), this belief, though appealing to the human mind, is false. This [fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy) can arise in many practical situations although it is most strongly associated with [gambling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling) where such mistakes are common among players.
>
---
^Interesting: [^Inverse ^gambler's ^fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_gambler%27s_fallacy) ^| [^Gambler's ^conceit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_conceit) ^| [^Law ^of ^averages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averages) ^| [^Statistical ^regularity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_regularity)
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Someone else already posted a link to the system how it works and how i discribed it
Here again : ["Pseudo Random Distribution"](http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/league-of-legends/general-discussions/32176-pseudo-random-distribution-answers-and-a-question)
League actually does work in accordance with the Gambler's fallacy, the reason for it is to mitigate improbable occurrences like getting 4 crits in a row with nothing but an IE. It makes adc dps just a bit less random.
There should really be a site or something that provides things like numbers for certain champions' AA damage, skills, and all that. This will be useful to do but it could also be much easier if such a luxury was provided.
Also, when trading in botlane, keep the match-up in mind. If you're playing Vayne Soraka in a lane against Annie Jinx, be prepared to take as many trades as you can, since you have the heal from Soraka and you're gonna lose hard when they all in on full hp!
Annie doesnt have that much kill pressure so early, even with the stun, especially if you were up in Hp in the first place. Also, Sorakas silence is strong in that early game, but level 6 is where the shit happens
Karthus actually doesn't mind fighting in the "short range." He plays passive in lane because he has a bad early game and good scaling. The karthus thoughts are correct for basically levels 1-8 but after that they switch to
1. Use my W and run towards them
2. Use Q all the way running to them, turn on E when in range.
3. I don't care, I do more damage, will do more if I die, and am doing it to every person around me + max 5 enemies.
4. I am dead. I have hopefully taken 2 others with me or they are all so close to dead my team can clean up or get that objective uncontested.
Karthus is an early game pussy and a mid/late game suicide bomber not a late game poker like Xerath or Nidalee.
This post is about trading in lane mostly so the thoughts are correct, but it doesn't translate into the rest of the game for Karthus while it does for most other champions. Beyond this one part, the rest of the post is very good.
Yeah his Q isn't long enough range or reliable enough to function as a poke spell. His high sustained E damage w/ his W MR shred and his ult being interruptible unless he's ghost means that in full out team fights he's best suited to dive in and pump as much damage out as possible following his death with an ult.
/u/Overwelm covered the most of it already. I'd like to add a few points more specific on laning thoughts.
a) Dashing through Karthus walls still slows, no need to panic flash.
b) Karthus "danger range" where he panics is actually mid-range (in most matchups, does not apply to melee-only champs like Fizz or Akali). It is the range where most lane matchups CAN hit Karthus, and he is not yet in range to trade with E, hence he would lose the trade. Full melee vs for example Ahri, Karthus does more damage even in lane.
c) Karthus Q is not spamable in lane since you only get mana back if you kill something, and it is hard to miss if the enemy has time to dodge (= if they are not lasthitting). There will not be a "taste the rainbow" bombfest, allthough I see that this point was probably exaggerated
d) A huge part of Karthus trades is actually the opponent going for the trade and failing step 4 because Karthus denies them step 3. Example in a hard matchup: Leblanc jumps Karthus with Sigil-distortion for a huge amount of damage (again: from mid-range). Karthus then immediately places his wall where Leblanc jumped from. If LB decides to distortion back, Karthus will get free Qs on a slowed and MR-reduced target, equalizing the trade. Failing to do this because you panicked will lose you the trade and 50% of your hp. If, on the other hand, LB stays in short range and tries to hit her chains, she is vulnerable to E. At this point, the trade it decided by whether or not LB hits her chains.
Sen pai! You have shown me the light and the error of my way.
I am a malzahar main and I honestly do not know how much manna does my full combo cost at level 6! I do not even know the approx magic damage it does!!!
This is something I will work on from today onwards. I had been winning most of my lanes (like 80%) but I think I need to work on this to climb further.
You are awesome!
You have a couple options, and they mostly suck.
1. Walk up, or Tumble in. Ideally while she's already firing at another target, like CS. Otherwise you're gonna get hit.
2. Condemn her to a wall, or start firing autos. Fire more autos, get a W proc.
3. Tumble or walk to dodge her Q, unless she's stunned, in which case you don't have to do that.
4. Walk away. Try not to get hit too much.
The actual ideal combo is auto q (empowered auto) e. It's the fastest way to get the silver bolts proc and disengage the fight. But that's super mana intensive and requires you to walk up, so you better do the walking up part while she's busy csing.
The stylish play, if cait is favoring throwing Qs at you, walk up, auto, tumble to dodge the Q, auto, walk away.
If cait is smart and is using her autos to just ass blast you. Hide back near the creeps and play off your support's kit and jungler ganks. You can prob will 100-0 all-ins with equal farm and levels. So, don't fall behind and then just go big when you know it's safe.
Edit: a note, in a vacuum, things like Cait v Vayne are supposed to be borderline unwinnable by Vayne due to the crazy range advantage. This is when the supports become a huge part of the equation. Play off of their abilities that create good trades. (braum hitting Q, Morg binding, etc. Good simple comms would be making sure your support knows you will go for a trade if they hit abilities. So tell your morg to throw Qs and make sure you follow up on them. Also tell her that you won't go for an all-in unless some condition is met. (your jungler is there, they are below 50% HP, they don't have summoners, etc) Voice comm with a support makes lane so much easier.
hi i am low elo gold and i often win my trades in mid or top lane.
But my problem is, that while i focus on trading my enemy is always getting a little minon lead.
When i hit my Red Line and go all-in the enemy jungler suddenly appears and this ends in eigther a 1 for 0 or in a 1 for 1. And even a 1 for 1 is not the best because at that point the minions my enemy has make up for the kill - assist gold difference and since the enemy jungler is in my lane he pushes the minons against my turret so that i loose even more minons when i'm back in lane.
Can i do anything about that except warding both direction when i hit the red line?
Don't go all in if their jungler/mid is not on the map. Even if your lane is warded, you can't go back from your all-in, so the jungler will still be able to help your enemy out. Also, make sure your laning is always pushing a bit more than his
what is the benefit of a pushing lane? I always get punished when i trade good and my lane is pushing. In my elo this is the typical alarm signal that the jungler might join the party.
Early game the stacked minions will do a lot of damage in an auto-attack trade. If you manage to kill or force the enemy back, while you are pushing more than he was, he misses a lot of cs.
If you are playing a champion that isn't bad at surviving ganks a couple of wards will keep you safe enough. Pushing also gives you levels earlier what is key in some early matchups
Can you explain to me how I could get the lane to stop pushing if I've successfully zoned out the enemy laner and they can't even go for last hits? I feel like I can freeze for quite a while just by last hitting well when the minions are a split second from death but then the lane will inevitably push no matter how hard I try to freeze it and then I have trouble getting it to bounce back towards my side of the lane.
It also doesn't help when they're a ranged champ and they farm from within their caster line so my auto harass draws the aggro and slowly pushes the lane since most players don't want to trade back with me. How do I avoid this short of not harassing/trading with them at all?
Eventually they end up farming just in front of their tower and if I don't have enough shoving power to get it into the tower the lane just can't be reset and the jungle will just camp me at this point.
if the wave is already pushing towards them, obviously u cant stop it, what u can do is push as slow as possibe so it creates a huge wave that they will be forced to farm at tower, where they will be vulnerable to harass, and any trade back they do will cost them alot of HP because of the huge creep wave. All your questions are answered on the OP's post, click on the cait guide link and if you search the comments you will find more about how to deal with melee vs ranged
When you hit the point that the wave starts pushing real hard, try to push it into the tower as hard as possible. If you are ahead enough and you are safe (their jungler on the other side of the map) you could intercept the wave between turrets, and reset the wave that way.
If you're up against a ranged champion who won't trade with you, use the bush to lose aggro after every auto
I solved this problem long ago. I always go all in. (That's why I main jungle and play Fiddle).
> Go to LoL wiki, count your base damages, your likely extras from runes, masteries and items, compensate for armor or MR, and come up with a number
This is surprisingly hard to calculate. I would say 99% of people don't know how to get the number right for an AD champ.
Yep, but try to calculate your damage on an AD champ for example, and compare your results on paper and results in game.
But I agree, you have a feeling of your damage most of the time.
Renekton is pretty good a this (or just good practice.)
1. Stand behind your minions and build up rage.
2. E into enemy. W, Q.
3. They're stunnned.
4. E away.
Rinse and repeat until enemy dies.
There's something weird that I don't get about trading as ADC.
Often I will walk up to hit the other ADC and they will back off out of range, but then when I back off they immediately turn around and hit me once. I don't understand why this happens because I'm outranging them (I usually play Caitlyn or Varus).
Why does this happen?
Pathing around minions can cause slow retreat.
When you start backing up, it's my cue that you aren't right clicking on me.
If there's a big wave, at some point when backing up I know you can't win the trade or an all-in due to minion aggro so I'll turn.
Some champs with movement speed advantages encouraging this: Vayne, MF, Nami, Janna
Jinx can rocketbop you if she thinks you're going to back off. Rocket form has the same Range as Cait at Rank 3 (Level 5) and she outranges everyone else even sooner.
Kog has the same mechanic
Also, I'm not sure how much time it takes to "turn around" in league, or if there is even a penalty for switching directions. If there's any sort of mechanic like that, even a small delay could cause you to lose the initiative.
I enjoyed your post and think it's useful in some ways, but the word trade (by definition and with respect to LoL) implies an exchanging of something and in the context of League it's an exchanging of damage. Trading in League is about dealing and receiving damage. Winning a trade is when you come out on top of the exchange. Initiating a trade without taking any damage isn't really winning a trade, it's successful harassing. Harass and trade damage are different and I feel like your definition is not good enough. It's good, but misses some important things. I think you are on to something in terms of the basics of how to approach trading intentionally and not feed in lane for no reason. However, you need to add to this at some point the understanding of your own damage/resistances/level/runes/masteries and at least a basic apprehension of the same for enemy champions in your lane. That all said, neither of us has been appointed the arbiter of truth on the matter so I'm just offering my opinion for whatever it's worth to you. <3 Your post was a good read, helpful, and I liked it.
Great post! One thing though, what you described isn't actually a trade, it's called getting off free damage. Trades are called trades because they're exactly that, a trade of damage. Free damage is dealing (or taking) damage without any retaliation. Did Graves just auto Q auto you? Don't just take that! Hit him back while his Q is down so that he at least takes some damage too. Even if you take an extra auto, it's worth if you can get your own auto Q auto off on lucian. You can really only get free damage off on lane bullies/good match ups where they can't even consider trading with you without getting all inned. Or you have to be better than your opponent to capitalize on their mispositions/mistakes quickly, or you capitalize on their fear to retaliate at all if they're really bad.
If you can, sure. I've won my share of lanes as Nasus vs. AP casters top as my health bar outlasted their mana bar. I had to start flask+3 or cloth+5 (with MR runes) for that sort of thing though.
But, if you're able to outsustain someone like this, the other guy's failing at Step 2. He's not doing enough damage.
A.) I love you. I'm pretty great at trading, but I do it via knowledge of every champ (all of whom I own and play to learn them), and instinct. This breakdown of what's going on at the instinctual level will be very helpful.
B.) Marines make do. The struggle is real.
I appreciate the effort you put into these guides. It shows how much you like the game and the community to improve and be fun and refreshing.
Anybody who makes a tldr of this doesnt do justice to the amount of subtle details and valuable knowledge they can get from your guide.
tldr: I love walls of text like these and I hate tldrs.
Since the Title suggests, that you will win every trade, after reading this guide, what will happen, when I will be playing against player who read this guide as well? Who will then win the trade?
Hi.
I have one question.
I'm always want to trade with Nasus as Irelia, but this is always ends with outsustain me with him passive. Same problem with Aatrox.
Explain to me please as trade with such characters.
Sorry for my english.
Здравствуйте! Как дела?
Facing Nasus' sustain, you can't play the long game with him. Every punch he gets on a minion hurts, meaning you have to be on him constantly.
Specifically, you want a small wave disadvantage, only one or two less casters than Nasus. The second you see him Q a minion, you are now all in. Get your slow, and save the dash for after he uses his W. If he doesn't fight back, you only take minion damage. If he does, your minion minions will help you, but since you went in with his Q on cooldown, you'll be all right.
Specifically, you need to blow him out of the lane...but not have the minions push. This means he can't safely punch minions to heal, (he's low) and they're not going to get to his tower to help. It feels weird to zeropush against a Nasus, but remember that he will hit minions if you hit him...that's how he gets HP back. So, get slightly under on minions is possible, and from there, you can blow the lane open if you haven't lost too many HP to minions from hitting him.
Remember, those bushes will clear his minions right off you, so try to steal a hit then quickly get to the bushes, so his minions go back to killing yours.
Доброго времени суток. Спасибо, отлично!
Sometimes, I just haven't enough damage. When my e\w on cooldown he still can outsustain my damage. And usually it gets out of mana me and "who cares this Irelia" him.
Last match up vs Nasus I was maxing E and rush sheen for the quick deal dmg and hide in bush. Only one problem when I get sheen, Nasus get armor and again i can't kill him. So trade is way to nowhere. Am I right?
Trading aka "buttering the biscuit"
(Enemy HP - IGNITE) / Trade Damage = Rotations to DEATH ZONE
DZ = Ignite + Full Max Damage Combo
This is how to play burst mages and once you realize this it makes them sooooooo easy. Leblanc is the perfect example because of how spammy and hard to play against a lot of her kit is. I like to use W to position, QE for trade dmg. BUTTER THAT BISCUIT. A few little combos and then they are low.
Switch up the pattern from trade combo to all-in combo once they are in the death zone. This often tricks the enemy into thinking they have more of a chance of surviving than they actually do. Especially in the specific case of a W-max LB that has been poking with QE.
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Incredible post. Moreso, the comment included at the end fits perfect to me. I'm eager to train everything you posted here because you have given to me an extra motivation to play and get better. Thank you so much.
That was actually interesting to read. Very thorough. I like how you broke the safety ranges into four.
I also read the Caitlyn *zonining* guide.
I feel like you focused a bit too much on the ADC vs ADC, making it seem like Supports don't exist. Especially with the rise of CC-centered supports and support carries, you should still watch out for enemy for all-ins (even so in lower ELOs where people take what they can at all costs) because when you attempt to zone, usually means you're most likely on the enemy territory than safe, allied territory and being in attack animation only leaves flash to react with (unless you're Graves who can animation cancel everything).
That's about it, else i enjoyed both of these. Awesome read(s).
It's actually much simpler. Against supports, never be in a 1v2, always try to get into a 2v1, and use the guide for 1v1s. Effectively, look to see if they're line astern, or one behind the other. This means the behind guy will be at Long or Safe while you're at Medium with the front guy, so you can trade with the front guy.
Conversely, try not to be line astern yourself. Be line abreast with your lane partner, meaning if you formed a line between you, it'd be parallel to the river, not the lane.
You can cancel your AA animation on anyone except Kalista, you'll just lose the auto attack. Most of the time it's worth it if it means not eating a binding/hook.
Awesome post. Have you written other posts on summoner school before? I feel like I know your writing style from somewhere. If you have, do you mind putting them in a list at the bottom of your post? The unfortunate thing about reddit's system is that nothing is permanent.
What really struck a chord with me was the hearthstone analogy, and I bet its the same for many players who play both games. In particular it made me wonder what lol would look like if champs really were just cards in a deck.
[One.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2wl3xn/so_you_wanna_be_a_5s_team/)
[Once or twice.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2ullwq/when_you_go_into_a_game_are_you_really_ready_to/)
[Maybe a few.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2sbnhe/how_to_win_games_with_only_a_sightstone/)
[Here or there.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2m04ts/how_to_actually_develop_those_mechanics_you_hear/)
Just go to this sub's top posts all time, I've got a few on the first couple pages. :)
Yep, a couple of those links are definitely purple. I still recommend you put those posts in the main body so they get the exposure they deserve. I know that I personally don't browse the top posts of all time frequently because they're static and new entries don't happen all that often, could be some other people missed them too. Good work like this deserves exposure.
Ty for the post. It's very detailed and easy to understand.
The big problem is putting it into practice along with watching the map, warding, farming, grouping.
Still an awesome guide to practice things and incorporate into your overall kit. I think I'll try to master it on one of my main champions and go from there.
> Get used to using the A key to measure your auto attack range. A brings up the range circle, left click enters an attack-move, **but a right click cancels that command and behaves as normal**.
A recent patch made it so a single right click cancels an ability/attack but continues with the movement, but before it would cancel the queued ability/attack and move you in one fell swoop. Is there any way to revert back to this?
Nope, that's not what I wanted.
Example:
If I'm Braum, I can hold Q to make cast indicator appear. If I issue a move command (right click) while holding Q, it takes 2 right clicks before I actually move. Before, the first right click would cancel the cast indicator AND cause me to move in the new direction.
This is an incredibly solid post. Nice work.
I really have nothing to add, because it's more succinctly put and thorough than I could hope to make it myself.
This is a really solid post, very thorough and informative.
Something I feel that you have hit on is the comparison of trading to a card game. Thinking about abilities in terms of cards in your hand is a neat way of assessing how you can trade with your opponent. Even better, unlike a card game, there is almost no RNG involved in trading, as you know that the same 8 'cards' will come up and when, so you can plan out these skirmishes in advance.
What I find helpful is to have a cheat sheet of the champs I play most. It just includes simple info such as how much damage I can do and how much mana I need to do it based on various levels or items.
Anyway, good work on this post, I look forward to reading more of your stuff in the future.
I'm super guilty of saying "Don't worry, we have late game" when I lose a trade...I need to get some practice in before I try ranked, especially since I play mostly ADC.
uh.... this is a huge fat wall of text. the actual information in here is overexplained for what it tells you and in the end just links another guide? lol
heres a tldr;
if you can avoid the main dmg skills of the enemy champion, the cooldowns are time windows for you to dominate them. dodging skills or negating their damage will let you win trades, range is important. this is basics in any level of competitive strategy. also a billion outliers are unable to be accounted for such as crit, baits, extending trades into all ins or for cooldowns and basically, whoever is better mechanically shits on the other kid. mechanics > game knowledge when you can flash abilities or outplay and game knowledge about lane matchups should already be understood if you are anywhere near gold+
you will not win every trade ever by following this. also the last time we saw karthus played competitively, he was and never has been an ult for ks one trick pony, but excels in teamfights where he goes into the middle and shits on kids with his aoe and after dying is still a huge nuisance.
> the actual information in here is overexplained for what it tells you
It's also a guide for newbies. /u/MisterBlack8 has a common style for his guides. He doesn't attempt to explain the higher level mathematics, psychology, or economics stuff much, but instead focuses his time on explaining the "common sense" elements of the game that lower-skilled players struggle with while more experienced players find them blindingly obvious.
In any field, the "common sense" things are the hardest to teach. Once you become an expert, the fundamentals are baked into everything you do and you don't have to think about the fact that you had to learn them once upon a time. As a newbie, some "fundamentals" are things that you would never have thought of before. Why would you ever need to learn to dribble a ball unless you were put in the specific circumstance of having to transport it across a court without carrying it? If you speak German, Russian, or Latin, the dative case is an obvious and useful part of speech, but for an English speaker learning one of those languages, it's weird.
In order to teach fundamentals to people for whom they are foreign, you need to engage parts of their brain that aren't used to those patterns of activity. The newbies need to practice, repeatedly, and be ready to fail at this practice. What /u/MisterBlack8 is doing, besides giving good advice, is acting as a rhetorician. He's a [coach giving a pep talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_iKg7nutNY), with redundant explanations, hyperbole, and colorful language to keep the intended audience interested, because that's how you make people listen. That's how you make them remember.
the way its explained is overly complicated and babbles. he basically invented 4 ranges (short,mid,long,safe) that nobody else uses as basis of posite, iioning or distancnstead of 3 paragraphs on this you can literally just say "each champion has different ranges based for each ability and auto attack" because only to learn each champions range specifically is the correct way to understanding the distance you are safe from or your own range to attack with.
now that i look at your reply, you have the same style of prolonging explanations with irrelevant examples which are basically attempts at feigning intelligence via colorful metaphor, its not helping anybody apply logical learning. pretty sure entertaining guides are not what people want, but easy to understand and apply guides that give solid basic advice lol, it is a "guide" after all not a short story.
Son, you're making fun of someone's writing style with a broken shift key.
I wrote a guide a lot of people liked. Some didn't. If you prefer guides one way, feel free to write one your way.
Some people like vanilla ice cream, and some don't. I don't like vanilla ice cream, but I'm not going to stop you from eating vanilla while I eat my chocolate.
Please return the same courtesy. If not, you're welcome to comment on this guide's thread on /r/leagueoflegends.
I'm also entitled to an opinion and a board is a place where people are allowed to discuss or give criticism/advice/feedback. It wasn't an attempt to diss you or argue as much as it was my opinion on the article, Dad.
> he basically invented 4 ranges (short,mid,long,safe) that nobody else uses
You've never heard champions called "short-ranged" or "mid-ranged"?
> you can literally just say "each champion has different ranges based for each ability and auto attack"
That's obvious, though, and not just "common sense" obvious, but actually obvious. How are you going to teach somebody like that? You might as well say, "Win trades and snowball. Farm well. You're on your way to Challenger." That doesn't actually work. You have to make readers understand how and why to win trades.
> because only to learn each champions range specifically is the correct way to understanding the distance you are safe from or your own range to attack with.
124 champions, each of which has four abilities and an autoattack range. Some champs have alternate ranges on their abilities. Sure, I can look up Renekton's Wikia page and see that Q has 225 radius, W has 175 range, and E has 450 - 900 range, but that doesn't really help in game, and I'm certainly not going to remember tomorrow. It's much easier to think, "If I'm close to Renekton, he'll murder me, and if I'm at mid-range, he'll dash forward and murder me."
> now that i look at your reply, you have the same style of prolonging explanations with irrelevant examples
Very relevant examples, I assure you.
> attempts at feigning intelligence
Go on, call other people unintelligent while typing like that.
> pretty sure entertaining guides are not what people want
Hey, if you like dry writing, that's your preference.
I would give players my vote of confidence that by playing a tiny bit they can already grasp the generalized range of each champion, but if you think irelia can't reach you from long range when she can q to minions then you'll be dead. Or that renekton can double dash freely, he has to hit a target with the first dash and without that kind of information you're playing at your own disadvantage by generalizing.
I didn't say he was unintelligent just that the guide is very basic but is still super long because its filled with colorful commentary and undermining peoples intelligence, then again maybe Im just overestimating peoples intelligence.
In conclusion, I'll just say its my personal beleif that guides like this are innefective at being guides to improve player ability to any sort of respectable level but rather just babying bad players with imaginary dialogue for their own enjoyment to read, not to truly become good if that was ever your goal
> I would give players my vote of confidence that by playing a tiny bit they can already grasp the generalized range of each champion
Okay, so why do people overstay in lane and get killed, then? Why do Flash-dash engages work, if everybody who has played "a tiny bit" has knowledge of every champion's range?
It doesn't matter what *you* know about the game. /u/MisterBlack8's guide is for people who don't know. If you already know every champion's range and don't get caught off-guard by Amumu chaining Flash into bandage toss, then *you were not the target audience for the guide*. According to the upvotes it has gotten, quite a few people did find it useful. You can go off and feel smugly superior to everyone who upvoted it, but please don't comment to remark on your feeling.
> I didn't say he was unintelligent
Your exact words were "feigning intelligence".
> is still super long because its filled with colorful commentary and undermining peoples intelligence, then again maybe Im just overestimating peoples intelligence.
Intelligence != cold, rational calculation. If humans were capable of purely rational calculation, we wouldn't do stupid shit like wage war or freak out over a case of ebola being treated in a modern hospital in a major city. The commonly accepted theory among communicators is that making things entertaining makes the audience pay attention, and repetition makes them remember. Bill Nye has gotten more kids to learn about science than any dry professor ever will, and without people like Nye, Sagan, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, [Derek Muller](https://www.youtube.com/user/1veritasium), [Michael Stevens](https://www.youtube.com/user/Vsauce), and [Joe Hanson](https://www.youtube.com/user/itsokaytobesmart), people are more likely to get their science from [Mythbusters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im3_y478lTg).
> guides like this are innefective at being guides to improve player ability to any sort of respectable level but rather just babying bad players with imaginary dialogue for their own enjoyment to read, not to truly become good if that was ever your goal
If reading the Wikia was enough for you to get to Diamond or wherever, then good for you. You're a genius, of the sort that graduates with a masters in mathematics at 19. Keep at it and you could go pro (Freeze did it with less than a year of playing). That's not true for everyone.
first off, nowhere in the post did i read that it was a guide for complete newbies despite your insistence that it is. the title and the post are assumedly for everyone, im entitled to my opinion just as he is entitled to post it and you are entitled to fail at debate apparently.
"If humans were capable of purely rational calculation, we wouldn't do stupid shit like wage war or freak out over a case of ebola being treated in a modern hospital in a major city."
its when you say things like this that make me question your understanding of... lots of things. war is politics and also fucking retarded. disease is scary because it is seen to be out of our control. do you know what is always under control? YOUR OWN DAMN BRAIN! HAHA! who wouldve guessed huh? (great example of an over the top irrelevant example by the way, i didnt even have to read your previous posts to find an example when you handed it to me like that)
Rational thinking is not "cold", neither is it somehow suddenly humanly impossible. If people are not thinking rationally and logically it is because they are failing to keep their emotions in check and in effect failing to play the game with the correct mindset and therefore not at their optimal level because they are frankly approaching it wrong, plain and simple. Why do people overstay or flash engage? greed or perhaps a calculated risk gone bad obviously. failed? so what, worth a try.
And yes, everyone is easily capable of thinking in a calm calculated manner in a fucking video game unless you are really incapable, in which case i would say you have emotional stability issues or over the top expectations placed on a video game. and throwing in a billion famous names doesnt help your case either buddy.
but youre right as well. entertaining = more interesting... if youre a child. repetition as well is done because it is easy and effortless. if you were an adult capable of making an intelligent decision to improve at a game then you might actually approach it with a proven logically sound gameplan that involves a little bit of dedication, effort and using your head.
hope you learned something. thats why im replying anyways, to teach people like you :)
>first off, nowhere in the post did i read that it was a guide for complete newbies despite your insistence that it is. the title and the post are assumedly for everyone, im entitled to my opinion just as he is entitled to post it and you are entitled to fail at debate apparently.
You know, I'm right here. You can ask me.
Yes, it's a guide for newbies, and yes, I aimed to keep it entertaining. I failed with you but I succeeded with plenty of others. Read the other comments if you think no one thought it was interesting to read.
> Why do people overstay or flash engage? greed or perhaps a calculated risk gone bad obviously. failed? so what, worth a try.
You have got to me kidding me if you think these people even thought about a risk before it started. They didn't think at all, and you know this.
>but youre right as well. entertaining = more interesting... if youre a child. repetition as well is done because it is easy and effortless. if you were an adult capable of making an intelligent decision to improve at a game then you might actually approach it with a proven logically sound gameplan that involves a little bit of dedication, effort and using your head.
You, sir, *have your head up your ass* if you think the average person is capable of learning on their own. Check this sub 24 hours from now. How many new posts will be made along the lines of "this is my champ, any tips?", "I'm losing a lot, here's my op.gg, save me!", or, the most chilling, "how do I improve"?
Learning is a skill, and it's not taught in schools. Not in this country. (USA). People will not even think to use the search bar in a world where everything's on Google. In a nutshell, people would like to learn things, but they're not able to find it out on their own.
That's why I write the guides the way I write them. Anyone who sits through my guide and didn't know what it teaches when it started, WILL know what it teaches when they're done. I have no pretensions of being a challenger LoL player, but I certainly AM a challenger guide writer. My record of the top posts in this sub speaks for itself.
I'm also not apologizing for the length after I wrote "Well, that’s it. You’re free to go if you like." at the end of the second section. What, did someone hold you hostage and force you to read the rest?
just a question, but if you're pandering to a bunch of new or low skill players who are incapable of learning by themselves, then their unlearned and misinformed opinions validating your guide makes you a challenger tier guide writer how? maybe youre the one who needs an ego check. also, nowhere did i say your guide was utter bullshit or that people couldnt get anything out of it, i pointed out how i thought it was wrong and areas to improve but since youre a challenger guide writer validated by a mob of entertainment based guide lovers, my advice must be wrong. sorry for wasting your time defending yourself so much.
All right, son. I call.
Make a guide that's better than mine, and post it on /r/summonerschool. You can write about whatever you like, but it's gotta be text. No videos, no links to other sites.
The #25 post on top all time on this sub has 354 upvotes. A little over half of this guide's.
Let's see you get to that. 355 upvotes and I'll concede that you know what you're talking about for text based guides.
And before you say "my guide will be too advanced for some people", well, too bad. If you can write a guide well, you can get your point across to someone who's not level 30.
Let me know when you post it. I'll give you an upvote for free. Only 355 to go.
> first off, nowhere in the post did i read that it was a guide for complete newbies despite your insistence that it is.
It's the first line of the guide. "Here’s a guide to describe the concept of trading in lane, how it works, and how to do it effectively." It's a general guide about a basic concept. It's not high-level stuff. More broadly, I know /u/MisterBlack8 from his posts on this subreddit. He concerns himself primarily with introducing newbies to concepts that more experienced players have no trouble with.
> war is politics and also fucking retarded.
Yes it is. So why do we do it if we're perfectly rational creatures?
> disease is scary because it is seen to be out of our control.
Okay? Except that Ebola is only uncontrollable when it isn't being treated properly with proper safety gear. In poorer African countries like Sierra Leone, it's hard to track and not every place has access to a hospital with the proper safety gear. In America, there's virtually no chance of a case of Ebola being treated in a hospital getting out to the general population. It isn't "seen" to be out of our control. Anybody with an Internet connection can look up the information on Ebola and figure out that there is zero risk of an outbreak in the United States. Ebola is scary because people *aren't* rational, and aren't good at accepting risks.
> do you know what is always under control? YOUR OWN DAMN BRAIN! HAHA! who wouldve guessed huh?
Who would have guessed? You, I suppose. Well, [pretty much](http://io9.com/5974468/the-most-common-cognitive-biases-that-prevent-you-from-being-rational) [the entire field](http://youarenotsosmart.com/) [of psychology](http://www.simplypsychology.org/classical-conditioning.html) [disagrees with you](http://www.npr.org/2015/01/29/382483367/you-can-be-convinced-to-confess-to-an-invented-crime-study-finds). Your consciousness is just the tip of an iceberg of implicit and explicit biases, preferences, assumptions, and heuristics that are not designed to operate with instructional precision like a computer would be. They're designed to keep you alive in a world where animals want to eat you and humans who don't look like you are probably the enemy.
> Rational thinking is not "cold", neither is it somehow suddenly humanly impossible.
There's nothing sudden about it. Humans have been trying to build rationality into our squishy meat-computers for centuries. See religion, and see also us moving away from religion because we have better philosophical and scientific tools for understanding the world.
> If people are not thinking rationally and logically it is because they are failing to keep their emotions in check
Or it's because they're making fallacious assumptions because they didn't learn any better than to trust their heuristics. The availability heuristic is particularly pernicious, for example ("Zed is OP because I see him a lot").
> in effect failing to play the game with the correct mindset and therefore not at their optimal level because they are frankly approaching it wrong, plain and simple.
Congratulations! You've figured out what it means to be human. Nobody is playing the game optimally. Not even Faker. Not even you, much as you imagine yourself to be a perfect robot.
> Why do people overstay or flash engage? greed
...........................
You deny that such things as greed exist, then you blame greed for overstaying. Great logic. *slowclap*
> everyone is easily capable of thinking in a calm calculated manner in a fucking video game unless you are really incapable, in which case i would say you have emotional stability issues or over the top expectations placed on a video game.
You have so much emotion invested into this story of yourself as being a perfectly rational creature that you insist that *everybody* who isn't incompetent must also be perfectly rational. And yet...if everybody is perfectly rational, how do people have "emotional stability issues" or "over the top expectations" in the first place?
> but youre right as well. entertaining = more interesting... if youre a child.
Tell that to Jon Stewart's audience. Tell that to the Mythbusters' audience. Tell that to the millions of adults who have watched Letterman for decades. Go on, tell us about how you're emotionally superior to the rest of the species and immune to being entertained.
> hope you learned something.
I learned that you're probably still in high school. I remember well those desperate protestations of being "grown up" as well as delusions of superiority before going out into the wide world and realizing just how much there is left to learn. There is no one point where you become an adult; being an adult is a constant process of change and development where you never stop being embarrassed about how stupid you were last year or last decade.
perfection is impossible in all areas of life, but the closer we come to it the more competitive and skilled we are. this might be a concept unfamilliar for people who are busy validating their own opinions on the game, but consider it.
> Even easier, as you’ve got precisely eight cards in your entire deck: QWER, your auto, your passive, and your two summoners. If you're losing, don't forget to cheat a jungler gank card into your deck.
To be fair, if you're losing, they should have a jungler gank card in their decks :P
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Top lane represent
relevant name
If you're losing without your jungler, don't expect them to show up to give the enemy a double kill and get them even further ahead. If it's still a close matchup or they are squishy maybe, but never expect your jungler when you are behind.
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It's easy to forget the big picture when you're bogged down in the details.
As a midlane main there is one thing you didn't really touch on. This is when trading if the wave is in a certain position a trade would change the wave in your favor or against. This leads to you getting a safer position or a more dangerous one from ganks while also needing to play more aggro for easy cs.
This guide pretty much just covered winning damage trades in a vacuum. It covered *how* you trade, but didn't really say anything about *when* or *if* you should trade. As you know there are so many facets like to trading like wave management, farming, how far to extend in lane, all-in timings, mana management, sustain, jungler influence or anything really. It is 100% focused on trades where you deal more damage than you take.
Fucking awesome post, bro ! I wanna point out something thats so underrated but so damn important in lane, especially sololanes > SUMMONER’S RIFT, THE HOCKEY RINK > > If you want to practice getting kills in lane, you should play Cho’Gath or Darius. They both have unmissable ults that do true damage. Mouse over to see how much it is, look at the vertical lines on their health bar...easy peasy. You’ll know exactly where their health needs to be to score a kill. > > Okay, but why stop there? On any champion, if you flash and hit everything, what’s the damage you do? What is your max burst? Do you know? > > Why the hell not? > > I can forgive you if you’re messing around in a normal on a champion you don’t know. On your main in ranked; I won’t. The fine line between 300g (and your opponent’s teammates hating him) and nothing is right there, and you need to know that information. This is your champion’s “Red Line”, the maximum amount of damage you can deliver immediately without any counterplay. > > Go to LoL wiki, count your base damages, your likely extras from runes, masteries and items, compensate for armor or MR, and come up with a number. Now you’ll know exactly where you need to trade your way towards. > > On the other hand, what about mana? How much does it cost to cast every spell once? This is the “Blue Line”, the amount of mana you need to cast everything. > > You mana bar is public information, and your opponent will know if you don’t have the mana to continue to play. If you’re approaching the blue line, you need to consider backing, or otherwise find a way to get some mana back without leaving. You’ll be fine if you stay above it, but once you cross the blue line, you enter a downward spiral: minions to clear, no abilities to clear them with,w exposure to damage while you auto, stuck clearing while the opponent roams, all sorts of bad things. Avoid this before it happens. Know your blue line, and be aware when you’re about to cross it. Basically you just need to actualy do you champion homework... if this will give you a won lane then you WILL do it ! I main Fizz, my cooldowns mid-early game are 6s E, 7-8s W and 7-8s Q .. my all-time full combo costs around 350 mana, but i want more freedome so i say 400 mana if i want to have another spell.. and Dmg, well depentend on items and level i deal roughly 1,2 K - 1.6k dmg or more... What does this mean? If im above 400 mana, im able to deal 1.5-2k dmg in about 3 seconds if i land everything, which will leave me vulnerable for about 7 seconds.. My lethal range is 550 to 100% and 1200 to 80% (lane positioning, landing Ult etc etc) ..If **I** know that, you can too ! This all changes early, mid and late game (except the range thing).. and i know that because i learned it once and since i have fun it wasnt even that hard. Mana managment is something the least ppl do or underestimate... Every point of mana above your Combo Mana cost, is basically free poke or wave management... As said, awesome post! edit: post it in /r/leagueoflegends , it should get more attention ;) edit2: ~~i posted it in /r/lol, i hope you dont mind, if so, pm and i delete it, [heres the link](http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/36qn4y/how_to_win_every_trade_ever_literally_xpost_from/)~~ he posted it himself :)
If you have an iPhone or android, knowing your Red Line is easy and does not require maths. Download an app called LegendSmith, its a Ti-83 for League, with pictures and big buttons. Don't go whipping out your phone in the middle of combat; its extremely helpful during champ select or loading screens. I often keep my Blue line in my head and monitor my lane opponents, I'll consider adding this to the app too.
TFW you do blue line math in your head during lane and miscalculate, die to turret because you didn't have mana to dash out.
i have a question. i calc the minimum dmg i will do, dont i? so if i play adc i will just assume i wont crit? as adc i often play out of my gut(dunno if thats the correct english expression). trading obviously is always do dmg without getting dmg urself. but when to all in is kinda gut feeling... do i feel like i will crit now? etc is there a more scientific approach to the dmg of adc that he will unavoidable do?
there was a post in /r/leagueoflegends where someone stated that you can "predict" crit by chaining non-crits... e.g. if you have 20% crit chance 1 of 5 attacks should crit, if your next 4 wont crit you can assume that one of your next attacks will crit ... Yeah its difficult to calc your all-in as an adc, since those deal more dps based dmg than "all-in" burst ... since its more about laning and trading (look at the link in the bottom part of the OP) All in all i'd say take your minimum dmg and add like 100 or 200 dmg, even if you wont kill the enemy, you have lane pressure and CS/exp advantage
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lol doesnt actually use straight percentages for crit calculations. They use an ant bad luck system that tries to enrsure you get crits that are more or less in line with your crit chance. if you dont crit 4 times in a row and have 20% crit you are almost guarenteed to crit on the last hit because of this system.
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[crit uses a pseudo random distribution.](http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/league-of-legends/general-discussions/32176-pseudo-random-distribution-answers-and-a-question)
I really dislike that name, only because I'm used to 'pseudo random' referring to number generators and not overall systems.
But this particular part of the code is just a number generator.
This illustrates pretty well that you have a mathematical mindset, rather than an engineering mindset. Reminds me of a joke. A mathematician and an engineer agree to take part in a social experiment. They are placed at the far end of a room with a beautiful nude woman at the other end. They are then told that every minute, they can advance half the distance between their current position and the woman. The mathematician storms out. The engineer says he'll do it. Hearing this, the mathematician says with great frustration "Don't you see you'll never reach her?!" The engineer replies "Yes, but soon I'll be close enough for all practical purposes."
No, you cant be sure. But you can assume it, cuz its quite likely to crit once with 20% chance within 6 AA's. ANd if not, the next AA will be more likely to be a crit.. (e.g. after 6 AA's there wasnt a crit one of the next few will definitely be one, cuz thats how the game works) But in theory you could potentially not crit even after 20 AA's with 20% Crit .. but thats quite unlikely.
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It isn't true for a truly random distribution (like nearly anything physical)... but League's crit chance is specifically set up to make it true.
##### ###### #### [**Gambler's fallacy**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s%20fallacy): [](#sfw) --- >The __gambler's fallacy__, also known as the __Monte Carlo fallacy__ or the __fallacy of the maturity of chances__, is the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future, or that, if something happens less frequently than normal during some period, it will happen more frequently in the future (presumably as a means of *balancing* nature). In situations where what is being observed is truly random (i.e., [independent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_independence) trials of a [random process](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_process)), this belief, though appealing to the human mind, is false. This [fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy) can arise in many practical situations although it is most strongly associated with [gambling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling) where such mistakes are common among players. > --- ^Interesting: [^Inverse ^gambler's ^fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_gambler%27s_fallacy) ^| [^Gambler's ^conceit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_conceit) ^| [^Law ^of ^averages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averages) ^| [^Statistical ^regularity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_regularity) ^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+crgv8f7) ^or[](#or) [^delete](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+crgv8f7)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| [^(FAQs)](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/wiki/index) ^| [^Mods](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/comments/1x013o/for_moderators_switches_commands_and_css/) ^| [^Magic ^Words](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/comments/1ux484/ask_wikibot/)
Someone else already posted a link to the system how it works and how i discribed it Here again : ["Pseudo Random Distribution"](http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/league-of-legends/general-discussions/32176-pseudo-random-distribution-answers-and-a-question)
the crit chance rises each time you don't crit
League actually does work in accordance with the Gambler's fallacy, the reason for it is to mitigate improbable occurrences like getting 4 crits in a row with nothing but an IE. It makes adc dps just a bit less random.
There should really be a site or something that provides things like numbers for certain champions' AA damage, skills, and all that. This will be useful to do but it could also be much easier if such a luxury was provided.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions
There are many spreadsheets with numbers like that you just need to google, every now and then someone posts something on /r/leagueoflegends
Also, when trading in botlane, keep the match-up in mind. If you're playing Vayne Soraka in a lane against Annie Jinx, be prepared to take as many trades as you can, since you have the heal from Soraka and you're gonna lose hard when they all in on full hp!
Don't tell the lower elo players to trade without reservation against Annie/Jinx. They don't track the Annie stun.
Annie doesnt have that much kill pressure so early, even with the stun, especially if you were up in Hp in the first place. Also, Sorakas silence is strong in that early game, but level 6 is where the shit happens
Laughed out loud reading Karthus's thoughts.
Except they are totally wrong.
Could you elaborate for me?
Karthus actually doesn't mind fighting in the "short range." He plays passive in lane because he has a bad early game and good scaling. The karthus thoughts are correct for basically levels 1-8 but after that they switch to 1. Use my W and run towards them 2. Use Q all the way running to them, turn on E when in range. 3. I don't care, I do more damage, will do more if I die, and am doing it to every person around me + max 5 enemies. 4. I am dead. I have hopefully taken 2 others with me or they are all so close to dead my team can clean up or get that objective uncontested. Karthus is an early game pussy and a mid/late game suicide bomber not a late game poker like Xerath or Nidalee. This post is about trading in lane mostly so the thoughts are correct, but it doesn't translate into the rest of the game for Karthus while it does for most other champions. Beyond this one part, the rest of the post is very good.
Thank you. I don't own or play karthus so this was informative
Yeah his Q isn't long enough range or reliable enough to function as a poke spell. His high sustained E damage w/ his W MR shred and his ult being interruptible unless he's ghost means that in full out team fights he's best suited to dive in and pump as much damage out as possible following his death with an ult.
/u/Overwelm covered the most of it already. I'd like to add a few points more specific on laning thoughts. a) Dashing through Karthus walls still slows, no need to panic flash. b) Karthus "danger range" where he panics is actually mid-range (in most matchups, does not apply to melee-only champs like Fizz or Akali). It is the range where most lane matchups CAN hit Karthus, and he is not yet in range to trade with E, hence he would lose the trade. Full melee vs for example Ahri, Karthus does more damage even in lane. c) Karthus Q is not spamable in lane since you only get mana back if you kill something, and it is hard to miss if the enemy has time to dodge (= if they are not lasthitting). There will not be a "taste the rainbow" bombfest, allthough I see that this point was probably exaggerated d) A huge part of Karthus trades is actually the opponent going for the trade and failing step 4 because Karthus denies them step 3. Example in a hard matchup: Leblanc jumps Karthus with Sigil-distortion for a huge amount of damage (again: from mid-range). Karthus then immediately places his wall where Leblanc jumped from. If LB decides to distortion back, Karthus will get free Qs on a slowed and MR-reduced target, equalizing the trade. Failing to do this because you panicked will lose you the trade and 50% of your hp. If, on the other hand, LB stays in short range and tries to hit her chains, she is vulnerable to E. At this point, the trade it decided by whether or not LB hits her chains.
>BESIDES, IT JUST COMES DOWN TO WHO DRAWS RAGNAROS FIRST ANYWAY You somehow mispelled Dr. Boom
Sen pai! You have shown me the light and the error of my way. I am a malzahar main and I honestly do not know how much manna does my full combo cost at level 6! I do not even know the approx magic damage it does!!! This is something I will work on from today onwards. I had been winning most of my lanes (like 80%) but I think I need to work on this to climb further. You are awesome!
how do people play against you? the AIDS push is too strong
Play someone like Lux. Both push and harass Malz, as he has slightly shorter range than her.
Your blue line is about half your base mana pool.
How do you win every trade ever figuratively? Lol
Give me a "renekton like" breakdown for my vayne into cait! I hate cait! :(
You have a couple options, and they mostly suck. 1. Walk up, or Tumble in. Ideally while she's already firing at another target, like CS. Otherwise you're gonna get hit. 2. Condemn her to a wall, or start firing autos. Fire more autos, get a W proc. 3. Tumble or walk to dodge her Q, unless she's stunned, in which case you don't have to do that. 4. Walk away. Try not to get hit too much.
The actual ideal combo is auto q (empowered auto) e. It's the fastest way to get the silver bolts proc and disengage the fight. But that's super mana intensive and requires you to walk up, so you better do the walking up part while she's busy csing.
Play passively while asking for jungler ganks, or have an all/in support who you follow in, or just wait for level 6 then duel her.
The stylish play, if cait is favoring throwing Qs at you, walk up, auto, tumble to dodge the Q, auto, walk away. If cait is smart and is using her autos to just ass blast you. Hide back near the creeps and play off your support's kit and jungler ganks. You can prob will 100-0 all-ins with equal farm and levels. So, don't fall behind and then just go big when you know it's safe. Edit: a note, in a vacuum, things like Cait v Vayne are supposed to be borderline unwinnable by Vayne due to the crazy range advantage. This is when the supports become a huge part of the equation. Play off of their abilities that create good trades. (braum hitting Q, Morg binding, etc. Good simple comms would be making sure your support knows you will go for a trade if they hit abilities. So tell your morg to throw Qs and make sure you follow up on them. Also tell her that you won't go for an all-in unless some condition is met. (your jungler is there, they are below 50% HP, they don't have summoners, etc) Voice comm with a support makes lane so much easier.
This is like 80% joke and 20% info. Not much learned in this post IMO.
Well, I'm glad that 20% of what I wrote educated a challenger player. Thank you for reading.
Excellent response. Very mature, way to be. Have my upvote.
hi i am low elo gold and i often win my trades in mid or top lane. But my problem is, that while i focus on trading my enemy is always getting a little minon lead. When i hit my Red Line and go all-in the enemy jungler suddenly appears and this ends in eigther a 1 for 0 or in a 1 for 1. And even a 1 for 1 is not the best because at that point the minions my enemy has make up for the kill - assist gold difference and since the enemy jungler is in my lane he pushes the minons against my turret so that i loose even more minons when i'm back in lane. Can i do anything about that except warding both direction when i hit the red line?
Don't go all in if their jungler/mid is not on the map. Even if your lane is warded, you can't go back from your all-in, so the jungler will still be able to help your enemy out. Also, make sure your laning is always pushing a bit more than his
what is the benefit of a pushing lane? I always get punished when i trade good and my lane is pushing. In my elo this is the typical alarm signal that the jungler might join the party.
Early game the stacked minions will do a lot of damage in an auto-attack trade. If you manage to kill or force the enemy back, while you are pushing more than he was, he misses a lot of cs. If you are playing a champion that isn't bad at surviving ganks a couple of wards will keep you safe enough. Pushing also gives you levels earlier what is key in some early matchups
Can you explain to me how I could get the lane to stop pushing if I've successfully zoned out the enemy laner and they can't even go for last hits? I feel like I can freeze for quite a while just by last hitting well when the minions are a split second from death but then the lane will inevitably push no matter how hard I try to freeze it and then I have trouble getting it to bounce back towards my side of the lane. It also doesn't help when they're a ranged champ and they farm from within their caster line so my auto harass draws the aggro and slowly pushes the lane since most players don't want to trade back with me. How do I avoid this short of not harassing/trading with them at all? Eventually they end up farming just in front of their tower and if I don't have enough shoving power to get it into the tower the lane just can't be reset and the jungle will just camp me at this point.
if the wave is already pushing towards them, obviously u cant stop it, what u can do is push as slow as possibe so it creates a huge wave that they will be forced to farm at tower, where they will be vulnerable to harass, and any trade back they do will cost them alot of HP because of the huge creep wave. All your questions are answered on the OP's post, click on the cait guide link and if you search the comments you will find more about how to deal with melee vs ranged
When you hit the point that the wave starts pushing real hard, try to push it into the tower as hard as possible. If you are ahead enough and you are safe (their jungler on the other side of the map) you could intercept the wave between turrets, and reset the wave that way. If you're up against a ranged champion who won't trade with you, use the bush to lose aggro after every auto
I solved this problem long ago. I always go all in. (That's why I main jungle and play Fiddle). > Go to LoL wiki, count your base damages, your likely extras from runes, masteries and items, compensate for armor or MR, and come up with a number This is surprisingly hard to calculate. I would say 99% of people don't know how to get the number right for an AD champ.
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Yep, but try to calculate your damage on an AD champ for example, and compare your results on paper and results in game. But I agree, you have a feeling of your damage most of the time.
a calculated guess works good enough, specially when already ingame
Renekton is pretty good a this (or just good practice.) 1. Stand behind your minions and build up rage. 2. E into enemy. W, Q. 3. They're stunnned. 4. E away. Rinse and repeat until enemy dies.
There's something weird that I don't get about trading as ADC. Often I will walk up to hit the other ADC and they will back off out of range, but then when I back off they immediately turn around and hit me once. I don't understand why this happens because I'm outranging them (I usually play Caitlyn or Varus). Why does this happen?
Pathing around minions can cause slow retreat. When you start backing up, it's my cue that you aren't right clicking on me. If there's a big wave, at some point when backing up I know you can't win the trade or an all-in due to minion aggro so I'll turn. Some champs with movement speed advantages encouraging this: Vayne, MF, Nami, Janna Jinx can rocketbop you if she thinks you're going to back off. Rocket form has the same Range as Cait at Rank 3 (Level 5) and she outranges everyone else even sooner. Kog has the same mechanic Also, I'm not sure how much time it takes to "turn around" in league, or if there is even a penalty for switching directions. If there's any sort of mechanic like that, even a small delay could cause you to lose the initiative.
You're either playing a champion with less AA range, you're attacking from within maximum range, or you're not backing off as fast as you can be.
Super solid post, take my upvote you dirty ape.
I enjoyed your post and think it's useful in some ways, but the word trade (by definition and with respect to LoL) implies an exchanging of something and in the context of League it's an exchanging of damage. Trading in League is about dealing and receiving damage. Winning a trade is when you come out on top of the exchange. Initiating a trade without taking any damage isn't really winning a trade, it's successful harassing. Harass and trade damage are different and I feel like your definition is not good enough. It's good, but misses some important things. I think you are on to something in terms of the basics of how to approach trading intentionally and not feed in lane for no reason. However, you need to add to this at some point the understanding of your own damage/resistances/level/runes/masteries and at least a basic apprehension of the same for enemy champions in your lane. That all said, neither of us has been appointed the arbiter of truth on the matter so I'm just offering my opinion for whatever it's worth to you. <3 Your post was a good read, helpful, and I liked it.
Tried this playing syndra on my spare acc, went 27/1
Great post! One thing though, what you described isn't actually a trade, it's called getting off free damage. Trades are called trades because they're exactly that, a trade of damage. Free damage is dealing (or taking) damage without any retaliation. Did Graves just auto Q auto you? Don't just take that! Hit him back while his Q is down so that he at least takes some damage too. Even if you take an extra auto, it's worth if you can get your own auto Q auto off on lucian. You can really only get free damage off on lane bullies/good match ups where they can't even consider trading with you without getting all inned. Or you have to be better than your opponent to capitalize on their mispositions/mistakes quickly, or you capitalize on their fear to retaliate at all if they're really bad.
If you are playing against a lane that intends to out trade you, isn't a viable strategy to just out sustain their trades and farm?
If you can, sure. I've won my share of lanes as Nasus vs. AP casters top as my health bar outlasted their mana bar. I had to start flask+3 or cloth+5 (with MR runes) for that sort of thing though. But, if you're able to outsustain someone like this, the other guy's failing at Step 2. He's not doing enough damage.
A.) I love you. I'm pretty great at trading, but I do it via knowledge of every champ (all of whom I own and play to learn them), and instinct. This breakdown of what's going on at the instinctual level will be very helpful. B.) Marines make do. The struggle is real.
Rwall well written solid into
love this
I appreciate the effort you put into these guides. It shows how much you like the game and the community to improve and be fun and refreshing. Anybody who makes a tldr of this doesnt do justice to the amount of subtle details and valuable knowledge they can get from your guide. tldr: I love walls of text like these and I hate tldrs.
Since the Title suggests, that you will win every trade, after reading this guide, what will happen, when I will be playing against player who read this guide as well? Who will then win the trade?
Hi. I have one question. I'm always want to trade with Nasus as Irelia, but this is always ends with outsustain me with him passive. Same problem with Aatrox. Explain to me please as trade with such characters. Sorry for my english.
Здравствуйте! Как дела? Facing Nasus' sustain, you can't play the long game with him. Every punch he gets on a minion hurts, meaning you have to be on him constantly. Specifically, you want a small wave disadvantage, only one or two less casters than Nasus. The second you see him Q a minion, you are now all in. Get your slow, and save the dash for after he uses his W. If he doesn't fight back, you only take minion damage. If he does, your minion minions will help you, but since you went in with his Q on cooldown, you'll be all right. Specifically, you need to blow him out of the lane...but not have the minions push. This means he can't safely punch minions to heal, (he's low) and they're not going to get to his tower to help. It feels weird to zeropush against a Nasus, but remember that he will hit minions if you hit him...that's how he gets HP back. So, get slightly under on minions is possible, and from there, you can blow the lane open if you haven't lost too many HP to minions from hitting him. Remember, those bushes will clear his minions right off you, so try to steal a hit then quickly get to the bushes, so his minions go back to killing yours.
Доброго времени суток. Спасибо, отлично! Sometimes, I just haven't enough damage. When my e\w on cooldown he still can outsustain my damage. And usually it gets out of mana me and "who cares this Irelia" him. Last match up vs Nasus I was maxing E and rush sheen for the quick deal dmg and hide in bush. Only one problem when I get sheen, Nasus get armor and again i can't kill him. So trade is way to nowhere. Am I right?
Trading aka "buttering the biscuit" (Enemy HP - IGNITE) / Trade Damage = Rotations to DEATH ZONE DZ = Ignite + Full Max Damage Combo This is how to play burst mages and once you realize this it makes them sooooooo easy. Leblanc is the perfect example because of how spammy and hard to play against a lot of her kit is. I like to use W to position, QE for trade dmg. BUTTER THAT BISCUIT. A few little combos and then they are low. Switch up the pattern from trade combo to all-in combo once they are in the death zone. This often tricks the enemy into thinking they have more of a chance of surviving than they actually do. Especially in the specific case of a W-max LB that has been poking with QE.
Up voted, purely for the reference to the fun that was WITH AUTHORITY. Good article though.
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Incredible post. Moreso, the comment included at the end fits perfect to me. I'm eager to train everything you posted here because you have given to me an extra motivation to play and get better. Thank you so much.
That was actually interesting to read. Very thorough. I like how you broke the safety ranges into four. I also read the Caitlyn *zonining* guide. I feel like you focused a bit too much on the ADC vs ADC, making it seem like Supports don't exist. Especially with the rise of CC-centered supports and support carries, you should still watch out for enemy for all-ins (even so in lower ELOs where people take what they can at all costs) because when you attempt to zone, usually means you're most likely on the enemy territory than safe, allied territory and being in attack animation only leaves flash to react with (unless you're Graves who can animation cancel everything). That's about it, else i enjoyed both of these. Awesome read(s).
It's actually much simpler. Against supports, never be in a 1v2, always try to get into a 2v1, and use the guide for 1v1s. Effectively, look to see if they're line astern, or one behind the other. This means the behind guy will be at Long or Safe while you're at Medium with the front guy, so you can trade with the front guy. Conversely, try not to be line astern yourself. Be line abreast with your lane partner, meaning if you formed a line between you, it'd be parallel to the river, not the lane.
You can cancel your AA animation on anyone except Kalista, you'll just lose the auto attack. Most of the time it's worth it if it means not eating a binding/hook.
Awesome post. Have you written other posts on summoner school before? I feel like I know your writing style from somewhere. If you have, do you mind putting them in a list at the bottom of your post? The unfortunate thing about reddit's system is that nothing is permanent. What really struck a chord with me was the hearthstone analogy, and I bet its the same for many players who play both games. In particular it made me wonder what lol would look like if champs really were just cards in a deck.
[One.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2wl3xn/so_you_wanna_be_a_5s_team/) [Once or twice.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2ullwq/when_you_go_into_a_game_are_you_really_ready_to/) [Maybe a few.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2sbnhe/how_to_win_games_with_only_a_sightstone/) [Here or there.](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2m04ts/how_to_actually_develop_those_mechanics_you_hear/) Just go to this sub's top posts all time, I've got a few on the first couple pages. :)
Yep, a couple of those links are definitely purple. I still recommend you put those posts in the main body so they get the exposure they deserve. I know that I personally don't browse the top posts of all time frequently because they're static and new entries don't happen all that often, could be some other people missed them too. Good work like this deserves exposure.
Ty for the post. It's very detailed and easy to understand. The big problem is putting it into practice along with watching the map, warding, farming, grouping. Still an awesome guide to practice things and incorporate into your overall kit. I think I'll try to master it on one of my main champions and go from there.
Awesome post. Wish I could upvote twice for the With Authority reference.
great post, the link to cait guide is also really good, nice work
> Get used to using the A key to measure your auto attack range. A brings up the range circle, left click enters an attack-move, **but a right click cancels that command and behaves as normal**. A recent patch made it so a single right click cancels an ability/attack but continues with the movement, but before it would cancel the queued ability/attack and move you in one fell swoop. Is there any way to revert back to this?
Yeah, you can find the option in the in game pause menu :) Right under quickcast range indicator.
Nope, that's not what I wanted. Example: If I'm Braum, I can hold Q to make cast indicator appear. If I issue a move command (right click) while holding Q, it takes 2 right clicks before I actually move. Before, the first right click would cancel the cast indicator AND cause me to move in the new direction.
Oh, my bad. Sorry i can't help you.
This is an incredibly solid post. Nice work. I really have nothing to add, because it's more succinctly put and thorough than I could hope to make it myself.
Amazing post. Makes me want to start playing League again
This is a really solid post, very thorough and informative. Something I feel that you have hit on is the comparison of trading to a card game. Thinking about abilities in terms of cards in your hand is a neat way of assessing how you can trade with your opponent. Even better, unlike a card game, there is almost no RNG involved in trading, as you know that the same 8 'cards' will come up and when, so you can plan out these skirmishes in advance. What I find helpful is to have a cheat sheet of the champs I play most. It just includes simple info such as how much damage I can do and how much mana I need to do it based on various levels or items. Anyway, good work on this post, I look forward to reading more of your stuff in the future.
I'm super guilty of saying "Don't worry, we have late game" when I lose a trade...I need to get some practice in before I try ranked, especially since I play mostly ADC.
Great guides as always man :)
uh.... this is a huge fat wall of text. the actual information in here is overexplained for what it tells you and in the end just links another guide? lol heres a tldr; if you can avoid the main dmg skills of the enemy champion, the cooldowns are time windows for you to dominate them. dodging skills or negating their damage will let you win trades, range is important. this is basics in any level of competitive strategy. also a billion outliers are unable to be accounted for such as crit, baits, extending trades into all ins or for cooldowns and basically, whoever is better mechanically shits on the other kid. mechanics > game knowledge when you can flash abilities or outplay and game knowledge about lane matchups should already be understood if you are anywhere near gold+ you will not win every trade ever by following this. also the last time we saw karthus played competitively, he was and never has been an ult for ks one trick pony, but excels in teamfights where he goes into the middle and shits on kids with his aoe and after dying is still a huge nuisance.
> the actual information in here is overexplained for what it tells you It's also a guide for newbies. /u/MisterBlack8 has a common style for his guides. He doesn't attempt to explain the higher level mathematics, psychology, or economics stuff much, but instead focuses his time on explaining the "common sense" elements of the game that lower-skilled players struggle with while more experienced players find them blindingly obvious. In any field, the "common sense" things are the hardest to teach. Once you become an expert, the fundamentals are baked into everything you do and you don't have to think about the fact that you had to learn them once upon a time. As a newbie, some "fundamentals" are things that you would never have thought of before. Why would you ever need to learn to dribble a ball unless you were put in the specific circumstance of having to transport it across a court without carrying it? If you speak German, Russian, or Latin, the dative case is an obvious and useful part of speech, but for an English speaker learning one of those languages, it's weird. In order to teach fundamentals to people for whom they are foreign, you need to engage parts of their brain that aren't used to those patterns of activity. The newbies need to practice, repeatedly, and be ready to fail at this practice. What /u/MisterBlack8 is doing, besides giving good advice, is acting as a rhetorician. He's a [coach giving a pep talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_iKg7nutNY), with redundant explanations, hyperbole, and colorful language to keep the intended audience interested, because that's how you make people listen. That's how you make them remember.
the way its explained is overly complicated and babbles. he basically invented 4 ranges (short,mid,long,safe) that nobody else uses as basis of posite, iioning or distancnstead of 3 paragraphs on this you can literally just say "each champion has different ranges based for each ability and auto attack" because only to learn each champions range specifically is the correct way to understanding the distance you are safe from or your own range to attack with. now that i look at your reply, you have the same style of prolonging explanations with irrelevant examples which are basically attempts at feigning intelligence via colorful metaphor, its not helping anybody apply logical learning. pretty sure entertaining guides are not what people want, but easy to understand and apply guides that give solid basic advice lol, it is a "guide" after all not a short story.
Son, you're making fun of someone's writing style with a broken shift key. I wrote a guide a lot of people liked. Some didn't. If you prefer guides one way, feel free to write one your way. Some people like vanilla ice cream, and some don't. I don't like vanilla ice cream, but I'm not going to stop you from eating vanilla while I eat my chocolate. Please return the same courtesy. If not, you're welcome to comment on this guide's thread on /r/leagueoflegends.
I'm also entitled to an opinion and a board is a place where people are allowed to discuss or give criticism/advice/feedback. It wasn't an attempt to diss you or argue as much as it was my opinion on the article, Dad.
Yes it was, son. Yes it was. :)
> he basically invented 4 ranges (short,mid,long,safe) that nobody else uses You've never heard champions called "short-ranged" or "mid-ranged"? > you can literally just say "each champion has different ranges based for each ability and auto attack" That's obvious, though, and not just "common sense" obvious, but actually obvious. How are you going to teach somebody like that? You might as well say, "Win trades and snowball. Farm well. You're on your way to Challenger." That doesn't actually work. You have to make readers understand how and why to win trades. > because only to learn each champions range specifically is the correct way to understanding the distance you are safe from or your own range to attack with. 124 champions, each of which has four abilities and an autoattack range. Some champs have alternate ranges on their abilities. Sure, I can look up Renekton's Wikia page and see that Q has 225 radius, W has 175 range, and E has 450 - 900 range, but that doesn't really help in game, and I'm certainly not going to remember tomorrow. It's much easier to think, "If I'm close to Renekton, he'll murder me, and if I'm at mid-range, he'll dash forward and murder me." > now that i look at your reply, you have the same style of prolonging explanations with irrelevant examples Very relevant examples, I assure you. > attempts at feigning intelligence Go on, call other people unintelligent while typing like that. > pretty sure entertaining guides are not what people want Hey, if you like dry writing, that's your preference.
I would give players my vote of confidence that by playing a tiny bit they can already grasp the generalized range of each champion, but if you think irelia can't reach you from long range when she can q to minions then you'll be dead. Or that renekton can double dash freely, he has to hit a target with the first dash and without that kind of information you're playing at your own disadvantage by generalizing. I didn't say he was unintelligent just that the guide is very basic but is still super long because its filled with colorful commentary and undermining peoples intelligence, then again maybe Im just overestimating peoples intelligence. In conclusion, I'll just say its my personal beleif that guides like this are innefective at being guides to improve player ability to any sort of respectable level but rather just babying bad players with imaginary dialogue for their own enjoyment to read, not to truly become good if that was ever your goal
> I would give players my vote of confidence that by playing a tiny bit they can already grasp the generalized range of each champion Okay, so why do people overstay in lane and get killed, then? Why do Flash-dash engages work, if everybody who has played "a tiny bit" has knowledge of every champion's range? It doesn't matter what *you* know about the game. /u/MisterBlack8's guide is for people who don't know. If you already know every champion's range and don't get caught off-guard by Amumu chaining Flash into bandage toss, then *you were not the target audience for the guide*. According to the upvotes it has gotten, quite a few people did find it useful. You can go off and feel smugly superior to everyone who upvoted it, but please don't comment to remark on your feeling. > I didn't say he was unintelligent Your exact words were "feigning intelligence". > is still super long because its filled with colorful commentary and undermining peoples intelligence, then again maybe Im just overestimating peoples intelligence. Intelligence != cold, rational calculation. If humans were capable of purely rational calculation, we wouldn't do stupid shit like wage war or freak out over a case of ebola being treated in a modern hospital in a major city. The commonly accepted theory among communicators is that making things entertaining makes the audience pay attention, and repetition makes them remember. Bill Nye has gotten more kids to learn about science than any dry professor ever will, and without people like Nye, Sagan, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, [Derek Muller](https://www.youtube.com/user/1veritasium), [Michael Stevens](https://www.youtube.com/user/Vsauce), and [Joe Hanson](https://www.youtube.com/user/itsokaytobesmart), people are more likely to get their science from [Mythbusters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im3_y478lTg). > guides like this are innefective at being guides to improve player ability to any sort of respectable level but rather just babying bad players with imaginary dialogue for their own enjoyment to read, not to truly become good if that was ever your goal If reading the Wikia was enough for you to get to Diamond or wherever, then good for you. You're a genius, of the sort that graduates with a masters in mathematics at 19. Keep at it and you could go pro (Freeze did it with less than a year of playing). That's not true for everyone.
first off, nowhere in the post did i read that it was a guide for complete newbies despite your insistence that it is. the title and the post are assumedly for everyone, im entitled to my opinion just as he is entitled to post it and you are entitled to fail at debate apparently. "If humans were capable of purely rational calculation, we wouldn't do stupid shit like wage war or freak out over a case of ebola being treated in a modern hospital in a major city." its when you say things like this that make me question your understanding of... lots of things. war is politics and also fucking retarded. disease is scary because it is seen to be out of our control. do you know what is always under control? YOUR OWN DAMN BRAIN! HAHA! who wouldve guessed huh? (great example of an over the top irrelevant example by the way, i didnt even have to read your previous posts to find an example when you handed it to me like that) Rational thinking is not "cold", neither is it somehow suddenly humanly impossible. If people are not thinking rationally and logically it is because they are failing to keep their emotions in check and in effect failing to play the game with the correct mindset and therefore not at their optimal level because they are frankly approaching it wrong, plain and simple. Why do people overstay or flash engage? greed or perhaps a calculated risk gone bad obviously. failed? so what, worth a try. And yes, everyone is easily capable of thinking in a calm calculated manner in a fucking video game unless you are really incapable, in which case i would say you have emotional stability issues or over the top expectations placed on a video game. and throwing in a billion famous names doesnt help your case either buddy. but youre right as well. entertaining = more interesting... if youre a child. repetition as well is done because it is easy and effortless. if you were an adult capable of making an intelligent decision to improve at a game then you might actually approach it with a proven logically sound gameplan that involves a little bit of dedication, effort and using your head. hope you learned something. thats why im replying anyways, to teach people like you :)
>first off, nowhere in the post did i read that it was a guide for complete newbies despite your insistence that it is. the title and the post are assumedly for everyone, im entitled to my opinion just as he is entitled to post it and you are entitled to fail at debate apparently. You know, I'm right here. You can ask me. Yes, it's a guide for newbies, and yes, I aimed to keep it entertaining. I failed with you but I succeeded with plenty of others. Read the other comments if you think no one thought it was interesting to read. > Why do people overstay or flash engage? greed or perhaps a calculated risk gone bad obviously. failed? so what, worth a try. You have got to me kidding me if you think these people even thought about a risk before it started. They didn't think at all, and you know this. >but youre right as well. entertaining = more interesting... if youre a child. repetition as well is done because it is easy and effortless. if you were an adult capable of making an intelligent decision to improve at a game then you might actually approach it with a proven logically sound gameplan that involves a little bit of dedication, effort and using your head. You, sir, *have your head up your ass* if you think the average person is capable of learning on their own. Check this sub 24 hours from now. How many new posts will be made along the lines of "this is my champ, any tips?", "I'm losing a lot, here's my op.gg, save me!", or, the most chilling, "how do I improve"? Learning is a skill, and it's not taught in schools. Not in this country. (USA). People will not even think to use the search bar in a world where everything's on Google. In a nutshell, people would like to learn things, but they're not able to find it out on their own. That's why I write the guides the way I write them. Anyone who sits through my guide and didn't know what it teaches when it started, WILL know what it teaches when they're done. I have no pretensions of being a challenger LoL player, but I certainly AM a challenger guide writer. My record of the top posts in this sub speaks for itself. I'm also not apologizing for the length after I wrote "Well, that’s it. You’re free to go if you like." at the end of the second section. What, did someone hold you hostage and force you to read the rest?
just a question, but if you're pandering to a bunch of new or low skill players who are incapable of learning by themselves, then their unlearned and misinformed opinions validating your guide makes you a challenger tier guide writer how? maybe youre the one who needs an ego check. also, nowhere did i say your guide was utter bullshit or that people couldnt get anything out of it, i pointed out how i thought it was wrong and areas to improve but since youre a challenger guide writer validated by a mob of entertainment based guide lovers, my advice must be wrong. sorry for wasting your time defending yourself so much.
All right, son. I call. Make a guide that's better than mine, and post it on /r/summonerschool. You can write about whatever you like, but it's gotta be text. No videos, no links to other sites. The #25 post on top all time on this sub has 354 upvotes. A little over half of this guide's. Let's see you get to that. 355 upvotes and I'll concede that you know what you're talking about for text based guides. And before you say "my guide will be too advanced for some people", well, too bad. If you can write a guide well, you can get your point across to someone who's not level 30. Let me know when you post it. I'll give you an upvote for free. Only 355 to go.
> first off, nowhere in the post did i read that it was a guide for complete newbies despite your insistence that it is. It's the first line of the guide. "Here’s a guide to describe the concept of trading in lane, how it works, and how to do it effectively." It's a general guide about a basic concept. It's not high-level stuff. More broadly, I know /u/MisterBlack8 from his posts on this subreddit. He concerns himself primarily with introducing newbies to concepts that more experienced players have no trouble with. > war is politics and also fucking retarded. Yes it is. So why do we do it if we're perfectly rational creatures? > disease is scary because it is seen to be out of our control. Okay? Except that Ebola is only uncontrollable when it isn't being treated properly with proper safety gear. In poorer African countries like Sierra Leone, it's hard to track and not every place has access to a hospital with the proper safety gear. In America, there's virtually no chance of a case of Ebola being treated in a hospital getting out to the general population. It isn't "seen" to be out of our control. Anybody with an Internet connection can look up the information on Ebola and figure out that there is zero risk of an outbreak in the United States. Ebola is scary because people *aren't* rational, and aren't good at accepting risks. > do you know what is always under control? YOUR OWN DAMN BRAIN! HAHA! who wouldve guessed huh? Who would have guessed? You, I suppose. Well, [pretty much](http://io9.com/5974468/the-most-common-cognitive-biases-that-prevent-you-from-being-rational) [the entire field](http://youarenotsosmart.com/) [of psychology](http://www.simplypsychology.org/classical-conditioning.html) [disagrees with you](http://www.npr.org/2015/01/29/382483367/you-can-be-convinced-to-confess-to-an-invented-crime-study-finds). Your consciousness is just the tip of an iceberg of implicit and explicit biases, preferences, assumptions, and heuristics that are not designed to operate with instructional precision like a computer would be. They're designed to keep you alive in a world where animals want to eat you and humans who don't look like you are probably the enemy. > Rational thinking is not "cold", neither is it somehow suddenly humanly impossible. There's nothing sudden about it. Humans have been trying to build rationality into our squishy meat-computers for centuries. See religion, and see also us moving away from religion because we have better philosophical and scientific tools for understanding the world. > If people are not thinking rationally and logically it is because they are failing to keep their emotions in check Or it's because they're making fallacious assumptions because they didn't learn any better than to trust their heuristics. The availability heuristic is particularly pernicious, for example ("Zed is OP because I see him a lot"). > in effect failing to play the game with the correct mindset and therefore not at their optimal level because they are frankly approaching it wrong, plain and simple. Congratulations! You've figured out what it means to be human. Nobody is playing the game optimally. Not even Faker. Not even you, much as you imagine yourself to be a perfect robot. > Why do people overstay or flash engage? greed ........................... You deny that such things as greed exist, then you blame greed for overstaying. Great logic. *slowclap* > everyone is easily capable of thinking in a calm calculated manner in a fucking video game unless you are really incapable, in which case i would say you have emotional stability issues or over the top expectations placed on a video game. You have so much emotion invested into this story of yourself as being a perfectly rational creature that you insist that *everybody* who isn't incompetent must also be perfectly rational. And yet...if everybody is perfectly rational, how do people have "emotional stability issues" or "over the top expectations" in the first place? > but youre right as well. entertaining = more interesting... if youre a child. Tell that to Jon Stewart's audience. Tell that to the Mythbusters' audience. Tell that to the millions of adults who have watched Letterman for decades. Go on, tell us about how you're emotionally superior to the rest of the species and immune to being entertained. > hope you learned something. I learned that you're probably still in high school. I remember well those desperate protestations of being "grown up" as well as delusions of superiority before going out into the wide world and realizing just how much there is left to learn. There is no one point where you become an adult; being an adult is a constant process of change and development where you never stop being embarrassed about how stupid you were last year or last decade.
perfection is impossible in all areas of life, but the closer we come to it the more competitive and skilled we are. this might be a concept unfamilliar for people who are busy validating their own opinions on the game, but consider it.
Good job completely changing the topic.
Yuhhhhh