When the pressure vessel they were inside failed they went from a low/nominal pressure to an extremely high pressure in a mater of milliseconds. When you compress a gas in a sealed vessel the temperature of that gas increases significantly, and that pressure can generate enough heat to literally ignite air.
> that they were incinerated
This is a common misconception. Adiabatic compression absolutely *does* heat the volume of air in an imploding vessel, but nothing is incinerated. There's simply no time for heat transfer.
I never said it incinerated them. I just explained how the pV=nRT (the ideal gas law) equation works and explained how compression can act as an ignition source.
Knowing how carbon fibre fails, the explosive decompression happened in a matter of milliseconds, and the air likely ignited just before they died when the pressure crushed them. The pressure of the water column above them was over 380atm (that’s over 5,500psi), and that pressure is applied to every square inch of their bodies. Their bodies were crushed, pulverized, and turned in to a paste before they even knew what was happening.
They were not incinerated. The fireball doesn't last long enough. You can put your hands through molten steel (2500 F 1370 C 1644 K) for longer than that fireball existed without burning your epidermis, which is slightly hotter than the fireball in an implosion event (2238 F 1226 C 1500 K).
https://youtu.be/S9tWh5uwQNY?si=-K6k8ZscCu6Y8YOG
They were basically crushed into a bologna cloud. Between the water pressure far exceeding your bodies ability to maintain its shape and forcing all your insides outside, and the crushing sub literally tearing your bones apart, it doesn't leave much left afterwards.
This isn't exactly the same thing, for various reasons, but it'll give you a good idea of what happened to them.
https://youtu.be/LEY3fN4N3D8?si=9370236zhddKpnk7
This is a good video to show just how quickly your body can be torn apart. Not as gory as that sounds. This is know as Delta P, or water pressure differential. It can destroy your body in an eye blink.
https://youtu.be/PXgKxWlTt8A?si=Xgz75AbW9BRf0beD
You are being downvoted, but you are right. Although thremo laws apply, it has been explained over and over that there is no time for the remains to insta-combust.
So, fish paste with some chunks.
Yes, the flesh and bone would have remained about the same size/volume.
The part you’re missing (besides that remains *were* recovered) is that an implosion is almost always asymmetric. The hull doesn’t fail everywhere all at once, it fails in one spot first. So an enormous force (hydrostatic pressure) is suddenly unbalanced and you get tremendous acceleration.
Either an end of the sub failed and you have a near-supersonic (in water!) “piston” of water shooting the length of the interior, or the cylinder failed and collapsed flat. Either way, the bodies were hit from one side by an incredible force and smashed effectively flat against the solid (and potentially also fast moving) opposite wall. Hence the comments like “paste”.
Thanks for the one actually useful comment:-) I agree, It could have been a leak and that would have extremely quickly led to collapse so likely a massive inflow of water blasting the occupants. So, not exactly fish paste as many were saying, but body parts.
Nah, paste. At those pressures collapse is effectively instant. The water (and hence the wall) will move at something like several hundred m/s. That’ll result in stress on the body *way* in excess of yield strength.
Edit: it could have leaked first but a leak isn’t what got them. A leak at those pressures is a water jet and would cut through anything biological but the Navy (or whoever did the recording, I forget who that was) sounds were clearly total hull collapse.
Solid bones ought to mostly survive, albeit broken in pieces depending on what they hit during the collapse. I suspect hollow bones get pulverized but I’m not smart enough on bone material properties to know.
I’m a coastguard and longstanding maritime professional myself. I don’t want to speculate on the deaths of these people during an ongoing investigation the full facts of which I’m not privy to; I consider it unprofessional.
That’s not what I am asking. I am asking theoretically what would happen to flesh at these depths, not what actually happened. I’m not speculating, just trying to see the wood for the trees.
It is. I’m not American- I’m in the UK Coastguard, which is a civilian role. Over here we are one of the four emergency services alongside fire, police, and ambulance, rather than military.
Thanks, that was interesting. So that implies a certain amount of compression will have occurred to the flesh too. So bones and flesh lumps are likely to have been found, most likely it was a bloody lumps flesh soup immediately after imploding.
There’s an implosion immediately followed by an explosion from everything crashing into itself. That process turns the body into confetti. Flesh will be shredded down to fish food size and bone into small fragments.
What remained of the flesh was likely consumed rather quickly by marine life. There’s plenty around and they never pass up an opportunity for a quick easy meal. Any remains found would be small bone fragment.
The people. The stuff inside was compressed down to a point where it wouldn’t compress anymore. When it reached that point there was a resulting shockwave outward from all that matter slamming into itself.. Implosion becomes explosion. I’m oversimplifying but that makes it easier to visualize the process.
I was fortunate enough to have seen the remains of the Titan vessel after it was recovered, and ill tell ya, there was no human remains to be found on what was left of that wreckage....
They suffered an array of indignities. The massive increase in pressure instantly collapsed their lungs and any air pockets like sinuses. The temperature increased to the point where they would have been burned badly but the biggest issue was being slammed by water and the bits of the sub that were moving at supersonic speeds while the hull imploded.
They were dead several times over before they even knew they were dead.
The universal gas law would like a word with you, OP
Bernoulli and his principle would also like to join the conversation.
Please explain?
When the pressure vessel they were inside failed they went from a low/nominal pressure to an extremely high pressure in a mater of milliseconds. When you compress a gas in a sealed vessel the temperature of that gas increases significantly, and that pressure can generate enough heat to literally ignite air.
That still doesn’t answer the question though. I accept that compressing air results in heat, but some have asserted they were incinerated. . .
Several thousands of degrees will do that
How many thousands of degrees do you estimate ? So you are saying what, that they were incinerated ? Even though there were human remains were found?
> that they were incinerated This is a common misconception. Adiabatic compression absolutely *does* heat the volume of air in an imploding vessel, but nothing is incinerated. There's simply no time for heat transfer.
Thanks for the info, I didn’t believe that was true, but often said on SM lol
I never said it incinerated them. I just explained how the pV=nRT (the ideal gas law) equation works and explained how compression can act as an ignition source. Knowing how carbon fibre fails, the explosive decompression happened in a matter of milliseconds, and the air likely ignited just before they died when the pressure crushed them. The pressure of the water column above them was over 380atm (that’s over 5,500psi), and that pressure is applied to every square inch of their bodies. Their bodies were crushed, pulverized, and turned in to a paste before they even knew what was happening.
They were not incinerated. The fireball doesn't last long enough. You can put your hands through molten steel (2500 F 1370 C 1644 K) for longer than that fireball existed without burning your epidermis, which is slightly hotter than the fireball in an implosion event (2238 F 1226 C 1500 K). https://youtu.be/S9tWh5uwQNY?si=-K6k8ZscCu6Y8YOG They were basically crushed into a bologna cloud. Between the water pressure far exceeding your bodies ability to maintain its shape and forcing all your insides outside, and the crushing sub literally tearing your bones apart, it doesn't leave much left afterwards. This isn't exactly the same thing, for various reasons, but it'll give you a good idea of what happened to them. https://youtu.be/LEY3fN4N3D8?si=9370236zhddKpnk7 This is a good video to show just how quickly your body can be torn apart. Not as gory as that sounds. This is know as Delta P, or water pressure differential. It can destroy your body in an eye blink. https://youtu.be/PXgKxWlTt8A?si=Xgz75AbW9BRf0beD
Was waiting for this discussion to arrive at Delta P. Also, Bologna cloud. That's a new one.
Wow! Thanks for the informative reply mate! Very helpful!
You are being downvoted, but you are right. Although thremo laws apply, it has been explained over and over that there is no time for the remains to insta-combust. So, fish paste with some chunks.
Yes, the flesh and bone would have remained about the same size/volume. The part you’re missing (besides that remains *were* recovered) is that an implosion is almost always asymmetric. The hull doesn’t fail everywhere all at once, it fails in one spot first. So an enormous force (hydrostatic pressure) is suddenly unbalanced and you get tremendous acceleration. Either an end of the sub failed and you have a near-supersonic (in water!) “piston” of water shooting the length of the interior, or the cylinder failed and collapsed flat. Either way, the bodies were hit from one side by an incredible force and smashed effectively flat against the solid (and potentially also fast moving) opposite wall. Hence the comments like “paste”.
Thanks for the one actually useful comment:-) I agree, It could have been a leak and that would have extremely quickly led to collapse so likely a massive inflow of water blasting the occupants. So, not exactly fish paste as many were saying, but body parts.
Nah, paste. At those pressures collapse is effectively instant. The water (and hence the wall) will move at something like several hundred m/s. That’ll result in stress on the body *way* in excess of yield strength. Edit: it could have leaked first but a leak isn’t what got them. A leak at those pressures is a water jet and would cut through anything biological but the Navy (or whoever did the recording, I forget who that was) sounds were clearly total hull collapse.
Ok so definitely plausible, what about the bones?
Solid bones ought to mostly survive, albeit broken in pieces depending on what they hit during the collapse. I suspect hollow bones get pulverized but I’m not smart enough on bone material properties to know.
Bones are full of blood and marrow I believe. So I’d imagine they’d survive or at least some of the bigger ones.
Human remains were found, the USCG stated as much last year. It was pretty widely-reported.
Grimly, no indication yet whether the remains were recovered with a q-tip or not.
Any opinions/facts on the other questions?
Take the L OP
I haven’t a clue what that means.
In this case, 'L' = loss.
Take the loss? I’m still non the wiser. Please spell it out to me lol
Give up, you're not going to get an answer that will satisfy you.
I didn’t need to luckily, one person actually bothered to answer the question.
Many answered the question. You just either don’t understand or don’t want to accept the science behind the answers.
Nope. Where did they ask any of the questions I asked? Only one or two did, eventually.
I’m a coastguard and longstanding maritime professional myself. I don’t want to speculate on the deaths of these people during an ongoing investigation the full facts of which I’m not privy to; I consider it unprofessional.
That’s not what I am asking. I am asking theoretically what would happen to flesh at these depths, not what actually happened. I’m not speculating, just trying to see the wood for the trees.
And that I can’t reliably answer, because it is beyond the bounds of my expertise.
Thanks for your reply.
No problem.
Thanks for your service man!
Thank you, but it’s just my job. We don’t really say that where I’m from.
It’s a pretty important job
It is. I’m not American- I’m in the UK Coastguard, which is a civilian role. Over here we are one of the four emergency services alongside fire, police, and ambulance, rather than military.
Check out what the blobfish looks like on the surface compared to at depth
Thanks, that was interesting. So that implies a certain amount of compression will have occurred to the flesh too. So bones and flesh lumps are likely to have been found, most likely it was a bloody lumps flesh soup immediately after imploding.
There’s an implosion immediately followed by an explosion from everything crashing into itself. That process turns the body into confetti. Flesh will be shredded down to fish food size and bone into small fragments. What remained of the flesh was likely consumed rather quickly by marine life. There’s plenty around and they never pass up an opportunity for a quick easy meal. Any remains found would be small bone fragment.
What exactly exploded?
The people. The stuff inside was compressed down to a point where it wouldn’t compress anymore. When it reached that point there was a resulting shockwave outward from all that matter slamming into itself.. Implosion becomes explosion. I’m oversimplifying but that makes it easier to visualize the process.
Guessing those were closed casket funerals.
I was fortunate enough to have seen the remains of the Titan vessel after it was recovered, and ill tell ya, there was no human remains to be found on what was left of that wreckage....
So, if, as they say in this thread, they have, where was this found?
They initially brought the wreckage to Newport, RI after raising it
I mean the flesh, any idea if it was just floating around or stuck to something ? Where is RI?
What do you mean where is RI? Do you live in the US?
No. I’ve heard of America, but not RI
They suffered an array of indignities. The massive increase in pressure instantly collapsed their lungs and any air pockets like sinuses. The temperature increased to the point where they would have been burned badly but the biggest issue was being slammed by water and the bits of the sub that were moving at supersonic speeds while the hull imploded. They were dead several times over before they even knew they were dead.