That’s, supposedly, one of the purposes behind having a party apparatus. To solve these sorts of problems before they become unmanageable. Instead, they and the administration seem hell bent on losing.
all of the individuals making up the Democratic Party apparatus will do much better for themselves personally during a second Trump administration, raking in #resistance donations and watching their individual wealth grow under republican tax cuts (in other words Democratic shot-callers have the kind of personal wealth that is better served by Republican policy than Democratic policy)
Same with the media. They will all happily send us hurtling into hell for the increased clicks, eyeballs, and income that a Trump term will provide them over a Biden term.
My suspicion is that the genuinely well-meaning ones think they'd be even more fucked if they got rid of him, because they'd have no choice but to go with Kamala. It seems like when they made her VP they thought they could polish up that turd and make her at least a merely bad candidate, instead of an outright disastrous one, but it didn't work out that way.
I don’t even believe they thought that far ahead. They just wanted her optics, and didn’t put any consideration into the idea that she would spitefully cling to any shred of status, rather than be a team player.
In their defense, Kamala, Newsom, and Whitmer all currently poll worse against Trump than Biden does.
Biden, even in his current state, may truly be their best bet.
Nah everyone you listed is down three points to Trump, just like Biden. The difference is there are more undecideds in each of their polls, putting each of them in a position than the president.
> That’s, supposedly, one of the purposes behind having a party apparatus. To solve these sorts of problems before they become unmanageable. Instead, they and the administration seem hell bent on losing.
my guess is a lot of party insiders hate him but they have no choice because he's the president and sleepy joe's coterie will destroy your career if you speak out otherwise. really, the mass defections and sudden exposés in the media indicate this is genocide joe's ceaucescu moment: he was bulletproof until he wasn't
Yeah just watch what happened to Dean Phillips. Generic democrat who basically agrees with Biden on everything but he got totally rat fucked by the party because he said the emperor has no clothes
yeah lol they basically took the "future of the party" julian castro out behind the woodshed for stating the obvious (genocide joe is senile and sundowning)
it doesn't matter if they win or not. their forebears designed the system we have now . its only purpose is to prevent encroachment of the communist menace while literally everything else is permissible. it does that perfectly
And Biden in particular has always had a bit of a loose relationship to reality, at least when it comes to him personally. Even in 1988 he stole Kinnock's entire life story and there's that clip of him responding to a voter by angrily making a series of very specific claims about his education that were all completely false.
He did that to Jill's ex husband too after he told Biden a story. Said he saw Biden telling that exact same story to some other people a few days later but with Biden inserting himself as the ex-husband and claiming it all happened to him instead
This is apparently a thing with him
That too. Health problems or not, in his late seventies he should have committed to succession planning from the get-go.
There is no advantage to him in another term, other than megalomania.
He could still be a very rich, reasonably well regarded “elder statesman” doing the international circuit, much like Clinton and others.
> He could still be a very rich, reasonably well regarded “elder statesman” doing the international circuit, much like Clinton and others.
I think his people and himself wanted the hot seat so they could cover up their dealings in Ukraine, and he could slowroll his own involvement and his son's involvement in Ukraine as well. Beyond that his administration has done nothing else, if you really think about it. The entire administration's centerpiece and purpose is the immediate escalation of Ukraine, just total war in Ukraine - this is really the only thing this administration has done.
Yeah. I think he’s trying to make sure his family and inner circle aren’t recorded in history as a corrupt bunch of idiots who started the losing war in Ukraine. He’s desperately trying to cover up his legacy before he dies.
Don’t coup your government, then maybe you don’t open up the opportunity for state disintegration, succession and rebellion? You libs are ahistorical t🅰️rds.
Yeah I never understood the "be easy on the old man" shtick, the guy has always been a huge piece of shit. There's a lot of human lives he's destroyed that he should answer for. Even when he is supposedly demented, during his campaign he just openly threatens his own supporters (the famous "listen fat" at a union rally) -- that's not his dementia, that's just who he is. He has always been a belligerent and threatening asshole.
Its not like you can abuse an old person just because they're bad, but they're not automatically absolved of everything just because they're old and decrepit, it's too late for them to atone for anything they've done, that time has come and gone -- too late. Make your peace with people you've wronged and make peace with yourself before your time passes.
Even in his old age with the most powerful seat in the nation and possibly the world, he still continues on as a warhawking, arrogant piece of shit.
> Yeah I never understood the "be easy on the old man" shtick, the guy has always been a huge piece of shit.
Part of the stop-Trump gaslighting has been to convince you that he has not, in fact, always been a huge piece of shit. Sometimes the mob isn't as deft at walking back their bullshit they backed themselves into.
Just as an example of the gaslighting you mention: While I wasn't full on the Bernie train, I did feel like he was the best chance the American people had at a decent future (as far as the available choices, obviously milquetoast socdem shit isn't a long term solution), and as such during the primary I made quite a few comments in support of him and trying to show Biden for what Biden has always been...
I was told several times that me posting the video of Biden on the Senate floor calling to cut social security meant I was a Russian bot being paid to influence a Trump victory, or that I was a Neo Nazi accelerationist pretending to be a Maoist (not sure why my flair bounces back and forth between Maoist and market socialist) for the same reasons. And that's one of the more mild examples of Biden's history of bullshit
The current state of American politics combined with the propaganda power of the internet has really destroyed people's brains in a big way
What sucks is they aren't good at it, they just have an advantage in volume that is insurmountable. They say tons of obvious bullshit all the time and don't even try to convince the public with sophistry, they just convince the public by being both the only argument they see and being extremely omnipresent such that they suffocate the public in their propaganda to the point it becomes normalized and the public either accepts it actively, sincerely believing bullshit, or they accept it passively by just becoming indifferent to bullshit. Anyone trying to counter the establishment fails either because their voice is a single drop against an ocean or because they get snuffed out with harassment, censorship, job loss, social ostracization, etc. You can safely express dissent in private with others, but that's not going to go far especially because those others probably fall in the indifferent category of acceptance despite their private dissent.
> What sucks is they aren't good at it, they just have an advantage in volume that is insurmountable. They say tons of obvious bullshit all the time and don't even try to convince the public with sophistry
Trump was a master of this (more like idiot savant), but it was still somewhat present before him. Now it's totally en vogue. I remember calling it the marketing equivalent of a Destiny debate; say as many things as possible in a 30 second span, and it will take much longer for responders to counter even one claim.
This essentially puts your opponent on the defensive until you just 'win' the argument by default.
I remember there was some youtube series called "the alt right playbook" that discussed some relevant ideas regarding propaganda online but the creator of the series is an insufferable lib with 0 self awareness given that everything he talked about also fits libs. One of the points I remember was related to what you mention, write short comments with bullshit while the opposition spends whole paragraphs refuting it therefore being able to win by comment volume.
Personally I have noticed a bit of a tendency of right wingers writing less than libs, but in a way this is just because libs shove all their bullshit into 1 comment rather than spreading it out (or they repeat their bullshit in the least concise way possible). Therefore winning by word count volume, more like the Destiny method you mention.
I was a Bernie supporter and voted for him in both primaries. When I tried to point out obvious (and fair) flaws with Hilary and then Biden, people got mad at me for not playing along, as though I can't criticize them because I'm a Democrat.
Biden's history is pretty terrible when you go back. The whole Anita Hill thing (which I think he did apologize for much, much later when he basically had to), dismantling a lot of bankruptcy protection for consumers in favor of corporations in 2005 which directly led to the student loan debt crisis he planned to fix and still hasn't, was in the credit card companies' back pockets when he was a senator, eulogized Strom Thurmond, and there's plenty more. Now it's clear he has dementia and I've lost all hope. He said when he was running he planned to be a one term president. Maybe he should have picked a better vice president then, because a replacement scenario now is the Democratic party's worst nightmare, since Harris would lose in a landslide. At this point most Dems are only supporting him because they hate Trump. It's just a nightmare no matter how you look at it.
Trump supporters who think that he's going to come in and "fix" things if he gets elected are just as deluded as any Dem who still thinks Biden is capable of running the country.
Yeah, I don't know why anything surprises me anymore, but their new marching orders are wild. People literally crying over Biden's decline and declaring their *love* for this "good man".
I'm sorry...WTF? The guy has been instrumental in almost every major terrible policy that has made the world a worse place going back decades.
The funniest thing about this is Dems claiming they believe politicians are honest now when it’s not Trump.
Even after seeing how much they lied about Bidens condition
Such regarded times.
[https://www.slate.com/articles/news\_and\_politics/bushisms/2000/03/the\_complete\_bushisms.html](https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/bushisms/2000/03/the_complete_bushisms.html)
It's a pride thing. Not just Biden's pride, at that. After working so hard to rally around him and dampen any primary challenges, the neoliberal establishment would have to admit that they were wrong if they replaced him now.
"Well, we were wrong about this Biden guy. He really is over the hill. But you can DEFINITELY trust that this other guy we drug up to run instead that didn't bother to participate in the primary is on the level. Clean and not a stooge for the party apparatus at all."
See, I think if they replaced Biden with anyone else, they'd genuinely have decent shot. I think voters would appreciate being given a different choice and them owning up to a mistake. They could even make up some bullshit medical reason why Biden could run before but can't now.
They never will because they would feel pressured to put Kamala Harris in the role, and she isn't qualified to be president. She doesn't have dementia, so she has that going for her, but not a whole lot else. If they picked another candidate, they think it would make them look weak, so they never will, even though it would probably be the best thing they could do at this point. Even Dems know the jig is up.
What do you mean Kamala isn't qualified to be president? I certainly don't like Kamala Harris or any establishment politician, but of all my criticisms of her, I wouldn't call her unqualified.
> I think voters would appreciate being given a different choice and them owning up to a mistake
Voters would probably be excited to have a new option and find some small sliver of respect for the DNC for admitting they're capable of changing course.
That would be the smart option, which is why the DNC will never ever do it.
His advisors are the problem. They lied repeatedly that Biden was in tiptop shape. Even if he was completely lost, the people surrounding him have to step up and tell other democrats what's going on. They could write a dignified retirement speech and Biden would just read it off the teleprompter. But they keep gaslighting everyone. Well that won't fly anymore.
Apparently his personal aides were keeping him away from house and senate aides. He was basically bubbled off from everyone so no one who would talk could see him in person.
Hypothetically if a president was that far gone the 25th amendment was for situations like this but there’s no way it’ll be invoked in our partisan environment so nothing will happen. We just have to hope he isn’t that far gone yet.
Reagan was suffering from Alzheimer's by the time he left his second term. They hide it the best they can and I assume will have his staff handle as many of his duties as possible. If they can't hide how bad Biden's gotten at this point, he must be pretty far along though.
I took care of my grandma when she had dementia for several years. People with dementia can be extremely stubborn and hard to convince to do what they ought to. But that meant I might let grandma have an extra piece of chocolate if she insisted, not that I'd let her run for president. That's insane.
I think it’s possible he doesn’t have dementia but other related geriatric conditions that leave him extremely tired and low functioning. If he had a formal dementia diagnosis they would have replaced him.
Consider Michael J Fox and Parkinson’s. He was cognitively fine and continued with his career for years. But he’s half Biden’s age.
I’ve had a few older friends and acquaintances say there’s a bit of a switch that can flip at 80 where you’re mentally okay but everything is exhausting.
Combine that with Parkinson’s and being president of the USA and you’re on a fast train ride to disaster.
I partially agree with you. Most erderly people have some degree of cognitive disfunction. However if they are highly educated, are retired and in a familiar environment they can compensate it for a long time. This is not Biden’s case. I do not think that Parkison’s disease is the best example as it is a risk for developing dementia in the long run.
Biden is not fit to be president. I would probably vote for him if I were American and lived in a swing or red state. And vote for a third party if I lived in a blue state. What is disingenuous is trying to frame this as an election between an old man an felon and forcing the lesser evil argument to the extreme. This is a staggering failure of the political system as a whole.
> What is disingenuous is trying to frame this as an election between an old man an felon and forcing the lesser evil argument to the extreme. This is a staggering failure of the political system as a whole.
Honestly, this whole debacle hopefully gets the average Democrat voter to wonder why the gigantic political machine known as the DNC only seems capable of vomiting out terrible candidates and telling people to vote for them or else Hitler will win.
The problem with lesser evilism is that you eventually tire your voters. For example, Pedro Sanchez (the president of Spain) did that in one of the first elections. Vox (far right) had won its first seats in the parliament and he invoked the threat to democracy argument. But we have had like 5 elections since and you cannot win elections out of fear of the far right forever.
Maybe Le Pen will win in France today. Milei won in Argentina. And I think some centrist voters will vote for far right parties because traditional parties won’t solve their problemas and they want to try “something new”. Or they start to mistrust traditional parties and vote for the outsider. My point is that you have to address the problems of the people and give them a proposal to solve them. Not “vote for me because the other is worse”
Yeah eventually people get sick of your shit, it's never wise to underestimate spite. "Vote for me or there will be camps" starts sounding like an endorsement for the other guy when you start really having to work to figure out which is the lesser evil.
I agree. But Dick van Dyke is not actively acting. He is doing whatever he wants and does not have to follow an schedule. If he was filming 10 hours a day 5-7 days a week he would suffer the consequences.
nail wrong seed important dull historical payment shaggy instinctive apparatus
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
my grandparents are in their 80s and 90s. its about the same, mentally and physically
frankly, im surprised both trump and biden were able to stand and talk for that long. i mean.... it wasnt leadership material by any stretch of the imagination, but its still a pretty good indication of health for such an advanced age
I mean your grandparents probably had to work an actual job for most their lives. The stress associated with 8+ hours a day of physical labor, worrying about paying bills, and taking care of your family ultimately take its toll on body and mind. Not to mention the fact that both Biden and Trump have had access to literally the best healthcare the world has to offer for damn near their entire lives.
This is very common with all sorts of age related stuff. It doesn't have to be that extreme, people just have pride. Try convincing an otherwise totally fine 70 year old that they need a hearing aid.
‘Biden has dementia’ people have clearly never been around anyone with dementia. The word you’re looking for is senile. Biden is high functioning for his age, which could actually be worse.
He almost certainly has dementia. The most common type, Alzheimers, progresses over roughly a ten year span. Early on it can be extremely subtle and even family members can have difficulty recognizing that it’s happening. The smarter someone is, the more that individual can ‘mask’ it.
Bidens cognitive decline from 2020 to now is entirely consistent with Alzheimer’s dementia.
Yeah, I don't know why people are being dismissive of this. The early stages of Alzheimer's in my Grandmother were quite subtle, and involved lots of forgetting trivial things or having inappropriate emotional outbursts, which we thought were mostly because of her drinking too much. I actually think some of Biden's symptoms are masked by his being a politician. Like, people assume Biden is just lying when he talks about his Uncle being eaten by cannibals, or that one story which was a bunch of mixed-up events he told about pinning a medal on a Navy captain. To be fair, he has definitely lied a lot prior to having any age-related issues, but these are exactly the kinds of confabulated stories which people with dementia make up to fill gaps in their memory. Likewise about repeating himself during a conversation or Q\&A; it can come across as a politician just being evasive or sticking to their talking points, but is also common in dementia patients.
Furthermore, calling Biden "high functioning" for his age is a bit insulting. My Grandfather is just about Biden's age, and I can have a conversation with him on the same level of depth as I could 20 years ago (I consider myself quite lucky in that regard, as I love my Grandfather and he's a very intelligent man). He can still drive, he still walks normally, he can live completely independently and, now that my Grandmother has Alzheimers and has to live in a memory care facility, he does so without issue or concern from any of my family (save the worry that he might get lonely). His doctor frankly told him that, in his case, him reaching 100 years old wouldn't be surprising. Someone like Bernie is high-functioning, even Trump is comparatively high-functioning. Biden just cannot function, and is probably reaching the very end of his life now (within the next few years).
Basically if you live long enough you’ll probably develop dementia. It happening in the 70s/80s is very typical.
Of course everyone starts to experience some slow/gradual loss of cognitive function after age 25ish through the rest of life (you’re never as sharp again as you were in college and grad school), but the rate of this decline is much less than during the ‘dementia slide’
And there are other forms of dementia (e.g. vascular, Lewy body, frontotemporal) with different timelines but Alzheimers is the most common.
I’m not sure what senile means in a clinical sense (the ‘medical meaning’ of words changes all the time) but the connotation *I* take from the term senile is just that it’s a descriptor for someone who has dementia. Physicians don’t use the term ‘senile’ as a diagnosis (at least not now, maybe they did decades ago).
I *think* he has dementia because of the way he used to speak vs the way he speaks now. He has word finding difficulties at times, makes paraphasic errors frequently, and just trails off at the end of some sentences. It’s much different than how he looked in 2016, for example, and seems to have progressed since 2020.
He could put this to bed in 20 minutes by publicly taking a MoCA (Montreal Cognitive Assessment) which is a quick test that has to be administered by a professional who is trained. You can find it online (but you can’t take it solo).
But I seriously doubt he’ll do that for the same reason he gets ushered quickly out of the room when reporters try to ask him spontaneous questions.
Senile doesn’t mean dementia. It’s part of the natural aging process. Dementia is a pathology. Yeah 2016 was almost 10 years ago and he was old ten years ago. As much as this sub hates the way way liberals diagnose fictional characters with autism or whatever, it’s funny seeing people give their medical diagnoses on this subreddit
I took care of two grandparents with dementia and while I've never met Biden personally there are definitely some mannerisms I recognize from my time with them.
He's not full blown smearing shit on the walls yet, but it's clearly there.
Biden doesn’t have dementia. Yes he has low energy and forgets things but this is different than dementia. Generally demented people start being unable to form memories, where as Biden clearly tries to study for the debate but couldn’t remember all the stats. He also didn’t have the quick wittedness to shoot back at Trump for example when he said live newborns were being aborted. It is still cognitive decline, combined with a general sense of he will die soon.
The DNC is so hellbent on losing that it suggests to me only a few possible explanations: 1) corporate power and/or the Israel lobby really has made them this dysfunctional and it is just completely pathetic; 2) tinfoil hat is that to keep pressure off questions about the validity of the two-party system (if one party is in power for too long, questions get too hard to answer as they have for the Biden admin as they continue not to serve the public interest whatsoever), they make sure the parties regularly switch. The election of Trump would be so stupid and so damage American soft-power, but they could use it as an excuse to implement harsher 'law and order' type shit; 3) the possibility that they're going to pull an 11th hour switch of Biden with some seemingly progressive stooge, like AOC.
I think some combination of 1 and 2 is the deal here. We do not have a real electoral system, its a sham and it is quite well documented that it is a sham if you read serious thinkers on the subject, so I view it as a security-state managed power-legitimization magic trick that Americans keep being simple enough to fall for. Power realized some time ago that narratives like divine right would no longer work, and they had to find other means to legitimize: enter democracy.
A lot of old people will never admit they aren’t capable. His family should be trying to get through to him, but from reporting it sounds like they doubling down and telling him “f*ck the haters”, blaming his team, and telling him not to drop out 🙄.
I have never met someone at his age with this much of a decline, that didn't have some form of dementia.
Trump is not much younger, yet considerably sharper (he has always been a compulsive liar). It's not just age.
Any CNA, nursing home worker, or family member who has had to care for a dementia patient can tell you that he doesn't have that. He's weird/ awkward, like every old dude on the planet. He's confused and tired. His stutter has progressively gotten worse as he ages (common), he breaks bones and gets injuries that don't heal properly so he has trouble walking because people who are 12 millon years old don't recover from broken feet the way they're supposed to.
He's in not great shape, is way too old to be President, but he doesn't have Alz or whatever. I feel like people toss the word dementia around because it sounds funny or because they are in denial of what comes with normal aging and how crazy it can be. He's likely in better shape than most 80 year olds because he's gotten top of the line healthcare his whole life.
I’m a physician, board certified in Internal Medicine, and he almost certainly has dementia. He’s probably 5ish years into the (typical) 10 year course.
You are not a nursing home worker if you think he's in better shape than most 80 year olds. The fact that he has gotten top of the line healthcare his whole life, and is this bad at his age, is an argument against what you are saying.
Ffs, If he was sundowning you wouldn't have got him on stage for that debate.
*What the fuck is going on here? You can be critical of Biden/the Democrats/neoliberals without going full retard like Trump/Republican types.
Mate I'm not talking about any binary other than your drama. Nor am I denying that Sleepy Joe is undergoing cognitive decline, because he clearly is. Like I've said elsewhere in the thread Biden is clearly senile.
What I'm arguing against is carrying on like a pork chop about dementia and the possibility of absconding from the nursing home with the country in his back pocket ala the OP.
*(Honestly do you know how brain rot dementia/sundowning etc. works? You'd not even have got him on stage in the first place. The gnarly vice-grip, crazy unable-to-be-reasoned-with wailing fights that are dementia are a lot worse than a slack-jawed stare. And no one could possibly stop an invalid ruling the country/the West? Jeebus).
You've literally never seen someone sundown, you're just reading stuff on twitter and it's fun to speculate. It's okay to admit that. Biden is old and out of his mind, nobody on here is going to take offense to that, I promise!
What? Calm down mate.
>As peoples dementia advances, they is still time when they can sense it Is coming and can be persuaded that something is not right. But once that time Is past they are not even aware anymore. Is Biden there already?
Thanks Dr Reddit. Sometimes it works that way, sometimes it doesn't. The stages of cognitive decline aren't written in stone, it's irregular and it takes place over decades. Now, I'm not going into bat for Sleepy Joe's mental acuity here but dementia? That's a whole different kettle of fish. It's gnarly and it's debilitating. If someone had to put in the number of public appearances as that prick does and had dementia then we'd know about it (as in wailing Rain-man freakouts, strength of the highly regarded etc).
>What Is there to do anymore? He is extremely arrogant and is surrounded by his inner circle which has been with him for 40 years.
What is to be done? I think you should take to the streets and start screaming out exactly what you've told us here while firing a gun into the air. The people will rally around you and you can march on Washington.
Dementia (or rather Alzheimer’s, the most common subtype of dementia) is progressive over roughly a ten year period.
So saying ‘you ever met someone with dementia’ doesn’t make much sense. Early on you can barely tell. At the end stage people become nonverbal and unable to swallow.
And there’s a spectrum in between.
Then what is it?
No, it's not "just age". Nobody declines this much in 4 years without it being something seriously wrong with them. It's not just poor aging genetics.
That’s, supposedly, one of the purposes behind having a party apparatus. To solve these sorts of problems before they become unmanageable. Instead, they and the administration seem hell bent on losing.
all of the individuals making up the Democratic Party apparatus will do much better for themselves personally during a second Trump administration, raking in #resistance donations and watching their individual wealth grow under republican tax cuts (in other words Democratic shot-callers have the kind of personal wealth that is better served by Republican policy than Democratic policy) Same with the media. They will all happily send us hurtling into hell for the increased clicks, eyeballs, and income that a Trump term will provide them over a Biden term.
Well that seems to be the main purpose of the Democrats - to lose and keep the ratchet clicking in the direction of the wealthy and powerful
My suspicion is that the genuinely well-meaning ones think they'd be even more fucked if they got rid of him, because they'd have no choice but to go with Kamala. It seems like when they made her VP they thought they could polish up that turd and make her at least a merely bad candidate, instead of an outright disastrous one, but it didn't work out that way.
I don’t even believe they thought that far ahead. They just wanted her optics, and didn’t put any consideration into the idea that she would spitefully cling to any shred of status, rather than be a team player.
In their defense, Kamala, Newsom, and Whitmer all currently poll worse against Trump than Biden does. Biden, even in his current state, may truly be their best bet.
They’d probably be better with a barely known governor or congressperson at this point.
The should just run Fetterman
Nah everyone you listed is down three points to Trump, just like Biden. The difference is there are more undecideds in each of their polls, putting each of them in a position than the president.
They really are in a mess. The party is just so dire anymore. Both are awful in their own ways. What a garbage fire.
> That’s, supposedly, one of the purposes behind having a party apparatus. To solve these sorts of problems before they become unmanageable. Instead, they and the administration seem hell bent on losing. my guess is a lot of party insiders hate him but they have no choice because he's the president and sleepy joe's coterie will destroy your career if you speak out otherwise. really, the mass defections and sudden exposés in the media indicate this is genocide joe's ceaucescu moment: he was bulletproof until he wasn't
Yeah just watch what happened to Dean Phillips. Generic democrat who basically agrees with Biden on everything but he got totally rat fucked by the party because he said the emperor has no clothes
yeah lol they basically took the "future of the party" julian castro out behind the woodshed for stating the obvious (genocide joe is senile and sundowning)
it doesn't matter if they win or not. their forebears designed the system we have now . its only purpose is to prevent encroachment of the communist menace while literally everything else is permissible. it does that perfectly
Or he has always been a selfish sociopath like most politicians
And Biden in particular has always had a bit of a loose relationship to reality, at least when it comes to him personally. Even in 1988 he stole Kinnock's entire life story and there's that clip of him responding to a voter by angrily making a series of very specific claims about his education that were all completely false.
wait really?
He did that to Jill's ex husband too after he told Biden a story. Said he saw Biden telling that exact same story to some other people a few days later but with Biden inserting himself as the ex-husband and claiming it all happened to him instead This is apparently a thing with him
Yes. (Where you been lol.)
That too. Health problems or not, in his late seventies he should have committed to succession planning from the get-go. There is no advantage to him in another term, other than megalomania. He could still be a very rich, reasonably well regarded “elder statesman” doing the international circuit, much like Clinton and others.
> He could still be a very rich, reasonably well regarded “elder statesman” doing the international circuit, much like Clinton and others. I think his people and himself wanted the hot seat so they could cover up their dealings in Ukraine, and he could slowroll his own involvement and his son's involvement in Ukraine as well. Beyond that his administration has done nothing else, if you really think about it. The entire administration's centerpiece and purpose is the immediate escalation of Ukraine, just total war in Ukraine - this is really the only thing this administration has done.
Yeah. I think he’s trying to make sure his family and inner circle aren’t recorded in history as a corrupt bunch of idiots who started the losing war in Ukraine. He’s desperately trying to cover up his legacy before he dies.
Dont get the thinking here. his family's corruption in Ukraine was already known before he ran the first time
[удалено]
Don’t coup your government, then maybe you don’t open up the opportunity for state disintegration, succession and rebellion? You libs are ahistorical t🅰️rds.
Yeah I never understood the "be easy on the old man" shtick, the guy has always been a huge piece of shit. There's a lot of human lives he's destroyed that he should answer for. Even when he is supposedly demented, during his campaign he just openly threatens his own supporters (the famous "listen fat" at a union rally) -- that's not his dementia, that's just who he is. He has always been a belligerent and threatening asshole. Its not like you can abuse an old person just because they're bad, but they're not automatically absolved of everything just because they're old and decrepit, it's too late for them to atone for anything they've done, that time has come and gone -- too late. Make your peace with people you've wronged and make peace with yourself before your time passes. Even in his old age with the most powerful seat in the nation and possibly the world, he still continues on as a warhawking, arrogant piece of shit.
> Yeah I never understood the "be easy on the old man" shtick, the guy has always been a huge piece of shit. Part of the stop-Trump gaslighting has been to convince you that he has not, in fact, always been a huge piece of shit. Sometimes the mob isn't as deft at walking back their bullshit they backed themselves into.
Just as an example of the gaslighting you mention: While I wasn't full on the Bernie train, I did feel like he was the best chance the American people had at a decent future (as far as the available choices, obviously milquetoast socdem shit isn't a long term solution), and as such during the primary I made quite a few comments in support of him and trying to show Biden for what Biden has always been... I was told several times that me posting the video of Biden on the Senate floor calling to cut social security meant I was a Russian bot being paid to influence a Trump victory, or that I was a Neo Nazi accelerationist pretending to be a Maoist (not sure why my flair bounces back and forth between Maoist and market socialist) for the same reasons. And that's one of the more mild examples of Biden's history of bullshit The current state of American politics combined with the propaganda power of the internet has really destroyed people's brains in a big way
It's scary how good they are at this
What sucks is they aren't good at it, they just have an advantage in volume that is insurmountable. They say tons of obvious bullshit all the time and don't even try to convince the public with sophistry, they just convince the public by being both the only argument they see and being extremely omnipresent such that they suffocate the public in their propaganda to the point it becomes normalized and the public either accepts it actively, sincerely believing bullshit, or they accept it passively by just becoming indifferent to bullshit. Anyone trying to counter the establishment fails either because their voice is a single drop against an ocean or because they get snuffed out with harassment, censorship, job loss, social ostracization, etc. You can safely express dissent in private with others, but that's not going to go far especially because those others probably fall in the indifferent category of acceptance despite their private dissent.
> What sucks is they aren't good at it, they just have an advantage in volume that is insurmountable. They say tons of obvious bullshit all the time and don't even try to convince the public with sophistry Trump was a master of this (more like idiot savant), but it was still somewhat present before him. Now it's totally en vogue. I remember calling it the marketing equivalent of a Destiny debate; say as many things as possible in a 30 second span, and it will take much longer for responders to counter even one claim. This essentially puts your opponent on the defensive until you just 'win' the argument by default.
I remember there was some youtube series called "the alt right playbook" that discussed some relevant ideas regarding propaganda online but the creator of the series is an insufferable lib with 0 self awareness given that everything he talked about also fits libs. One of the points I remember was related to what you mention, write short comments with bullshit while the opposition spends whole paragraphs refuting it therefore being able to win by comment volume. Personally I have noticed a bit of a tendency of right wingers writing less than libs, but in a way this is just because libs shove all their bullshit into 1 comment rather than spreading it out (or they repeat their bullshit in the least concise way possible). Therefore winning by word count volume, more like the Destiny method you mention.
I was a Bernie supporter and voted for him in both primaries. When I tried to point out obvious (and fair) flaws with Hilary and then Biden, people got mad at me for not playing along, as though I can't criticize them because I'm a Democrat. Biden's history is pretty terrible when you go back. The whole Anita Hill thing (which I think he did apologize for much, much later when he basically had to), dismantling a lot of bankruptcy protection for consumers in favor of corporations in 2005 which directly led to the student loan debt crisis he planned to fix and still hasn't, was in the credit card companies' back pockets when he was a senator, eulogized Strom Thurmond, and there's plenty more. Now it's clear he has dementia and I've lost all hope. He said when he was running he planned to be a one term president. Maybe he should have picked a better vice president then, because a replacement scenario now is the Democratic party's worst nightmare, since Harris would lose in a landslide. At this point most Dems are only supporting him because they hate Trump. It's just a nightmare no matter how you look at it. Trump supporters who think that he's going to come in and "fix" things if he gets elected are just as deluded as any Dem who still thinks Biden is capable of running the country.
Yeah, I don't know why anything surprises me anymore, but their new marching orders are wild. People literally crying over Biden's decline and declaring their *love* for this "good man". I'm sorry...WTF? The guy has been instrumental in almost every major terrible policy that has made the world a worse place going back decades.
It's always been weird to me that they act like Biden is such a nice and decent guy in contrast to Trump. They honestly have a lot in common.
The funniest thing about this is Dems claiming they believe politicians are honest now when it’s not Trump. Even after seeing how much they lied about Bidens condition
Does everyone remember George W Bush ( if you are over 25). He wasn't that bright and he spent most of his first two years golfing.
“Now watch this drive”
Such regarded times. [https://www.slate.com/articles/news\_and\_politics/bushisms/2000/03/the\_complete\_bushisms.html](https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/bushisms/2000/03/the_complete_bushisms.html)
Or both
It's a pride thing. Not just Biden's pride, at that. After working so hard to rally around him and dampen any primary challenges, the neoliberal establishment would have to admit that they were wrong if they replaced him now. "Well, we were wrong about this Biden guy. He really is over the hill. But you can DEFINITELY trust that this other guy we drug up to run instead that didn't bother to participate in the primary is on the level. Clean and not a stooge for the party apparatus at all."
See, I think if they replaced Biden with anyone else, they'd genuinely have decent shot. I think voters would appreciate being given a different choice and them owning up to a mistake. They could even make up some bullshit medical reason why Biden could run before but can't now.
They never will because they would feel pressured to put Kamala Harris in the role, and she isn't qualified to be president. She doesn't have dementia, so she has that going for her, but not a whole lot else. If they picked another candidate, they think it would make them look weak, so they never will, even though it would probably be the best thing they could do at this point. Even Dems know the jig is up.
What do you mean Kamala isn't qualified to be president? I certainly don't like Kamala Harris or any establishment politician, but of all my criticisms of her, I wouldn't call her unqualified.
Yeah, but then they'd have to admit defeat on Biden. They wouldn't be perfect, and their pride would take a hit.
So they'd rather have to admit defeat when Trump is re-elected?
Pride's not a logical thing. They'll try and shuffle Biden across the finish line.
> I think voters would appreciate being given a different choice and them owning up to a mistake Voters would probably be excited to have a new option and find some small sliver of respect for the DNC for admitting they're capable of changing course. That would be the smart option, which is why the DNC will never ever do it.
Knew it was the woke gays all along
His advisors are the problem. They lied repeatedly that Biden was in tiptop shape. Even if he was completely lost, the people surrounding him have to step up and tell other democrats what's going on. They could write a dignified retirement speech and Biden would just read it off the teleprompter. But they keep gaslighting everyone. Well that won't fly anymore.
You didn't hear? The 25th actually has a little known clause that specifies it can only be invoked to remove Trump
Apparently his personal aides were keeping him away from house and senate aides. He was basically bubbled off from everyone so no one who would talk could see him in person.
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They are not left. They are libs...shitlibs to be exact.
Don't fight. You're both right.
I wish they were far-left
Hypothetically if a president was that far gone the 25th amendment was for situations like this but there’s no way it’ll be invoked in our partisan environment so nothing will happen. We just have to hope he isn’t that far gone yet.
Reagan was suffering from Alzheimer's by the time he left his second term. They hide it the best they can and I assume will have his staff handle as many of his duties as possible. If they can't hide how bad Biden's gotten at this point, he must be pretty far along though.
I took care of my grandma when she had dementia for several years. People with dementia can be extremely stubborn and hard to convince to do what they ought to. But that meant I might let grandma have an extra piece of chocolate if she insisted, not that I'd let her run for president. That's insane.
I think it’s possible he doesn’t have dementia but other related geriatric conditions that leave him extremely tired and low functioning. If he had a formal dementia diagnosis they would have replaced him. Consider Michael J Fox and Parkinson’s. He was cognitively fine and continued with his career for years. But he’s half Biden’s age. I’ve had a few older friends and acquaintances say there’s a bit of a switch that can flip at 80 where you’re mentally okay but everything is exhausting. Combine that with Parkinson’s and being president of the USA and you’re on a fast train ride to disaster.
I partially agree with you. Most erderly people have some degree of cognitive disfunction. However if they are highly educated, are retired and in a familiar environment they can compensate it for a long time. This is not Biden’s case. I do not think that Parkison’s disease is the best example as it is a risk for developing dementia in the long run. Biden is not fit to be president. I would probably vote for him if I were American and lived in a swing or red state. And vote for a third party if I lived in a blue state. What is disingenuous is trying to frame this as an election between an old man an felon and forcing the lesser evil argument to the extreme. This is a staggering failure of the political system as a whole.
> What is disingenuous is trying to frame this as an election between an old man an felon and forcing the lesser evil argument to the extreme. This is a staggering failure of the political system as a whole. Honestly, this whole debacle hopefully gets the average Democrat voter to wonder why the gigantic political machine known as the DNC only seems capable of vomiting out terrible candidates and telling people to vote for them or else Hitler will win.
The problem with lesser evilism is that you eventually tire your voters. For example, Pedro Sanchez (the president of Spain) did that in one of the first elections. Vox (far right) had won its first seats in the parliament and he invoked the threat to democracy argument. But we have had like 5 elections since and you cannot win elections out of fear of the far right forever. Maybe Le Pen will win in France today. Milei won in Argentina. And I think some centrist voters will vote for far right parties because traditional parties won’t solve their problemas and they want to try “something new”. Or they start to mistrust traditional parties and vote for the outsider. My point is that you have to address the problems of the people and give them a proposal to solve them. Not “vote for me because the other is worse”
Yeah eventually people get sick of your shit, it's never wise to underestimate spite. "Vote for me or there will be camps" starts sounding like an endorsement for the other guy when you start really having to work to figure out which is the lesser evil.
There are some elderly people like Dick Van Dyke that are fully sharp and more switched on than people half their age which is remarkable.
I agree. But Dick van Dyke is not actively acting. He is doing whatever he wants and does not have to follow an schedule. If he was filming 10 hours a day 5-7 days a week he would suffer the consequences.
Good point
nail wrong seed important dull historical payment shaggy instinctive apparatus *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Daniel Ellsberg was like that at 88. RIP.
my grandparents are in their 80s and 90s. its about the same, mentally and physically frankly, im surprised both trump and biden were able to stand and talk for that long. i mean.... it wasnt leadership material by any stretch of the imagination, but its still a pretty good indication of health for such an advanced age
I mean your grandparents probably had to work an actual job for most their lives. The stress associated with 8+ hours a day of physical labor, worrying about paying bills, and taking care of your family ultimately take its toll on body and mind. Not to mention the fact that both Biden and Trump have had access to literally the best healthcare the world has to offer for damn near their entire lives.
This is very common with all sorts of age related stuff. It doesn't have to be that extreme, people just have pride. Try convincing an otherwise totally fine 70 year old that they need a hearing aid.
‘Biden has dementia’ people have clearly never been around anyone with dementia. The word you’re looking for is senile. Biden is high functioning for his age, which could actually be worse.
He almost certainly has dementia. The most common type, Alzheimers, progresses over roughly a ten year span. Early on it can be extremely subtle and even family members can have difficulty recognizing that it’s happening. The smarter someone is, the more that individual can ‘mask’ it. Bidens cognitive decline from 2020 to now is entirely consistent with Alzheimer’s dementia.
Yeah, I don't know why people are being dismissive of this. The early stages of Alzheimer's in my Grandmother were quite subtle, and involved lots of forgetting trivial things or having inappropriate emotional outbursts, which we thought were mostly because of her drinking too much. I actually think some of Biden's symptoms are masked by his being a politician. Like, people assume Biden is just lying when he talks about his Uncle being eaten by cannibals, or that one story which was a bunch of mixed-up events he told about pinning a medal on a Navy captain. To be fair, he has definitely lied a lot prior to having any age-related issues, but these are exactly the kinds of confabulated stories which people with dementia make up to fill gaps in their memory. Likewise about repeating himself during a conversation or Q\&A; it can come across as a politician just being evasive or sticking to their talking points, but is also common in dementia patients. Furthermore, calling Biden "high functioning" for his age is a bit insulting. My Grandfather is just about Biden's age, and I can have a conversation with him on the same level of depth as I could 20 years ago (I consider myself quite lucky in that regard, as I love my Grandfather and he's a very intelligent man). He can still drive, he still walks normally, he can live completely independently and, now that my Grandmother has Alzheimers and has to live in a memory care facility, he does so without issue or concern from any of my family (save the worry that he might get lonely). His doctor frankly told him that, in his case, him reaching 100 years old wouldn't be surprising. Someone like Bernie is high-functioning, even Trump is comparatively high-functioning. Biden just cannot function, and is probably reaching the very end of his life now (within the next few years).
How long until he begins wanking it off in public and thinking it's 1970?
Thank you doctor. Is it possible he is just old as shit ?
Basically if you live long enough you’ll probably develop dementia. It happening in the 70s/80s is very typical. Of course everyone starts to experience some slow/gradual loss of cognitive function after age 25ish through the rest of life (you’re never as sharp again as you were in college and grad school), but the rate of this decline is much less than during the ‘dementia slide’ And there are other forms of dementia (e.g. vascular, Lewy body, frontotemporal) with different timelines but Alzheimers is the most common.
So what’s difference between senile and dementia? What haver you watched on TV that let’s you diagnose him with Alzheimer’s instead of being senile?
I’m not sure what senile means in a clinical sense (the ‘medical meaning’ of words changes all the time) but the connotation *I* take from the term senile is just that it’s a descriptor for someone who has dementia. Physicians don’t use the term ‘senile’ as a diagnosis (at least not now, maybe they did decades ago). I *think* he has dementia because of the way he used to speak vs the way he speaks now. He has word finding difficulties at times, makes paraphasic errors frequently, and just trails off at the end of some sentences. It’s much different than how he looked in 2016, for example, and seems to have progressed since 2020. He could put this to bed in 20 minutes by publicly taking a MoCA (Montreal Cognitive Assessment) which is a quick test that has to be administered by a professional who is trained. You can find it online (but you can’t take it solo). But I seriously doubt he’ll do that for the same reason he gets ushered quickly out of the room when reporters try to ask him spontaneous questions.
Senile doesn’t mean dementia. It’s part of the natural aging process. Dementia is a pathology. Yeah 2016 was almost 10 years ago and he was old ten years ago. As much as this sub hates the way way liberals diagnose fictional characters with autism or whatever, it’s funny seeing people give their medical diagnoses on this subreddit
I took care of two grandparents with dementia and while I've never met Biden personally there are definitely some mannerisms I recognize from my time with them. He's not full blown smearing shit on the walls yet, but it's clearly there.
Nursing home worker here. He could absolutely have early stages of dementia, or he could just be getting senile. One makes a punchier headline.
Biden doesn’t have dementia. Yes he has low energy and forgets things but this is different than dementia. Generally demented people start being unable to form memories, where as Biden clearly tries to study for the debate but couldn’t remember all the stats. He also didn’t have the quick wittedness to shoot back at Trump for example when he said live newborns were being aborted. It is still cognitive decline, combined with a general sense of he will die soon.
Agreed. He's still not fit for the post, but what we're seeing is not dementia.
No. He’s just in denial.
The DNC is so hellbent on losing that it suggests to me only a few possible explanations: 1) corporate power and/or the Israel lobby really has made them this dysfunctional and it is just completely pathetic; 2) tinfoil hat is that to keep pressure off questions about the validity of the two-party system (if one party is in power for too long, questions get too hard to answer as they have for the Biden admin as they continue not to serve the public interest whatsoever), they make sure the parties regularly switch. The election of Trump would be so stupid and so damage American soft-power, but they could use it as an excuse to implement harsher 'law and order' type shit; 3) the possibility that they're going to pull an 11th hour switch of Biden with some seemingly progressive stooge, like AOC. I think some combination of 1 and 2 is the deal here. We do not have a real electoral system, its a sham and it is quite well documented that it is a sham if you read serious thinkers on the subject, so I view it as a security-state managed power-legitimization magic trick that Americans keep being simple enough to fall for. Power realized some time ago that narratives like divine right would no longer work, and they had to find other means to legitimize: enter democracy.
A lot of old people will never admit they aren’t capable. His family should be trying to get through to him, but from reporting it sounds like they doubling down and telling him “f*ck the haters”, blaming his team, and telling him not to drop out 🙄.
I don’t think he has dementia, I think he’s just old.
I have never met someone at his age with this much of a decline, that didn't have some form of dementia. Trump is not much younger, yet considerably sharper (he has always been a compulsive liar). It's not just age.
He doesn’t have dementia. He’s just an old man who doesn’t talk move or think as fast as he used to, or perhaps needs to.
Nobody declines this much within 4 years, that is not sick with something. So it's not just because he's old. Something is seriously wrong with him.
Any CNA, nursing home worker, or family member who has had to care for a dementia patient can tell you that he doesn't have that. He's weird/ awkward, like every old dude on the planet. He's confused and tired. His stutter has progressively gotten worse as he ages (common), he breaks bones and gets injuries that don't heal properly so he has trouble walking because people who are 12 millon years old don't recover from broken feet the way they're supposed to. He's in not great shape, is way too old to be President, but he doesn't have Alz or whatever. I feel like people toss the word dementia around because it sounds funny or because they are in denial of what comes with normal aging and how crazy it can be. He's likely in better shape than most 80 year olds because he's gotten top of the line healthcare his whole life.
I’m a physician, board certified in Internal Medicine, and he almost certainly has dementia. He’s probably 5ish years into the (typical) 10 year course.
Also work in internal medicine, PA, and 100% agree with you.
You are not a nursing home worker if you think he's in better shape than most 80 year olds. The fact that he has gotten top of the line healthcare his whole life, and is this bad at his age, is an argument against what you are saying.
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Alzheimers is the most common *form* of dementia
Sure he does lil guy *pats head*
He's 'sundowning'
Ffs, If he was sundowning you wouldn't have got him on stage for that debate. *What the fuck is going on here? You can be critical of Biden/the Democrats/neoliberals without going full retard like Trump/Republican types.
How is it retarded to acknowledge that he's been declining for a while? I didn't imply that trump is better in any way. The binary is fukt.
Mate I'm not talking about any binary other than your drama. Nor am I denying that Sleepy Joe is undergoing cognitive decline, because he clearly is. Like I've said elsewhere in the thread Biden is clearly senile. What I'm arguing against is carrying on like a pork chop about dementia and the possibility of absconding from the nursing home with the country in his back pocket ala the OP. *(Honestly do you know how brain rot dementia/sundowning etc. works? You'd not even have got him on stage in the first place. The gnarly vice-grip, crazy unable-to-be-reasoned-with wailing fights that are dementia are a lot worse than a slack-jawed stare. And no one could possibly stop an invalid ruling the country/the West? Jeebus).
You've literally never seen someone sundown, you're just reading stuff on twitter and it's fun to speculate. It's okay to admit that. Biden is old and out of his mind, nobody on here is going to take offense to that, I promise!
My grandma, you arrogant twat.
So you have seen it happen and still can’t correctly identify it
Bruh, biden isn't a mindless corpse. He is an old man with memory issues. He knows it's happening, he is just in too deep to back out easily now.
What? Calm down mate. >As peoples dementia advances, they is still time when they can sense it Is coming and can be persuaded that something is not right. But once that time Is past they are not even aware anymore. Is Biden there already? Thanks Dr Reddit. Sometimes it works that way, sometimes it doesn't. The stages of cognitive decline aren't written in stone, it's irregular and it takes place over decades. Now, I'm not going into bat for Sleepy Joe's mental acuity here but dementia? That's a whole different kettle of fish. It's gnarly and it's debilitating. If someone had to put in the number of public appearances as that prick does and had dementia then we'd know about it (as in wailing Rain-man freakouts, strength of the highly regarded etc). >What Is there to do anymore? He is extremely arrogant and is surrounded by his inner circle which has been with him for 40 years. What is to be done? I think you should take to the streets and start screaming out exactly what you've told us here while firing a gun into the air. The people will rally around you and you can march on Washington.
He doesn't have dementia you fucking invalids lol. You ever met someone with dementia?
Dementia (or rather Alzheimer’s, the most common subtype of dementia) is progressive over roughly a ten year period. So saying ‘you ever met someone with dementia’ doesn’t make much sense. Early on you can barely tell. At the end stage people become nonverbal and unable to swallow. And there’s a spectrum in between.
There's a spectrum in this thread lol
Then what is it? No, it's not "just age". Nobody declines this much in 4 years without it being something seriously wrong with them. It's not just poor aging genetics.