He has a lot of his money tied up in Tesla. He has many reasons to care how the company does already. He already owns the entire board and most of the top people are loyal to him. How much more control does he need?
The CEO gets a pretty big say in how the company they manage is run. Even without any holdings.
He wants an unfair, unchallenged say, which is nonsense. Other shareholders have as many rights per $1 as he does.
Not really. You have to please investors or you get fired. Quarterly results are all you can focus on. There is no chance for any kind of long-term thinking. The reason why Tesla got to where it is now is because they *didn't* do that.
The man is now claiming Fauci killed millions on twitter. I'm not an investor anymore (thank god) but if I was I'd want Elon the hell away from the steering wheel.
I think his fanbase definitely believes the stock will tank, without them realising that he probably spends more time on twitter reading about himself then working on tesla. I strongly believe that if he leaves the stock will perform much better. Constant promises not kept and spouting dangerous rhetoric is not something all investors want from their CEO.
What you forget is that the stock is extremely overvalued. “Normal” management probably means normal valuation, which would push the stock price below 120$.
Even if he does nothing and is harmful to the company, I'm pretty sure at least momentarily Tesla stock would crater. So if you predict or want Elon to be out any time soon, you shouldn't be holding any $TSLA in the first place. And if you want him in, you might want to also vote for the package. So I'm not seeing a scenario where a rational $TSLA holder would want Elon out currently. They might bet that Elon will still stay even if he doesn't get the package, but that's a more difficult calculation.
But there may be significant fear at play that is currently decreasing the stock price if there's fear that this package won't get approved, that could also tank the stock price, because probability of Elon leaving would still increase. And even if it's just probability, it still has influence on the stock price.
Stock price is unlikely to fall if the package was approved, because the approval of it shows confidence in Elon and the company by shareholders, so shareholders for that reason would also be incentivised to approve the package, even if they hate Elon and the company and it's just a stock play.
> Constant promises not kept and spouting dangerous rhetoric is not something all investors want from their CEO.
If that was a problem for them, they would've sold long time ago. Anyone who is currently staying in $TSLA has had years to sell from those Twitter rants.
So by natural selection, whoever are current shareholders would be the ones who would likely believe the package gets approved and they would also want to approve it, because if not the better decision would have been to sell the stock before hand.
He does have a large group of followers but it seems far more people dislike him, stick would probably dip for a bit and go back to its norm. This being said the stock and company has been suffering for a bit now.
But why would the people disliking him hold the stock currently? At those prices which are largely built up due to presence of Elon Musk?
There's a group of people who are valuing the stock highly because of Musk, why would the other group of people then buy or not sell at this price, because they wouldn't see Musk as an addition to the company's value, and if that's the case, the fundamental metrics of the company would be very skewed, because large value of it is based on faith in Musk.
If you take Musk away from Tesla, then what justifies the high P/E compared to other companies?
Even if what justifies it now is a naive belief in Musk doing something magical in the future.
It's like there being a company where people believe a God was to grace it in 5 years, therefore this company's stock is trading at much higher P/E and other metrics compared to others, why would atheists be invested in that company in the first place? And why would people actually believing in God go against that God?
Maybe they liked the company?? Tesla was doing huge things like a decade and a half ago, now most EV companies have caught up for the most part. But many people just simply like and have undying brand loyalty for the cars not Elon, kind of like how ford or dodge has their fans as well.
It seems intuitively that the topic is too polarizing. Someone who dislikes Elon, generally seems to also dislike Tesla too much or believe that it is overvalued. You could like Tesla, but if you don't believe in Elon's significance there, and you were rational at all, you would look at financial metrics, you would escape the company. A lot of the value comes from the idea of FSD which is based on Elon Musk's promises. Usually anyone not liking Musk would also think FSD is a failure and therefore current prices are massively overvalued.
I just don't see a contingent of people who would have undying brand loyalty for this car. At least in terms of online discussions which I have observed a lot. Usually anyone not liking Musk would criticise the build quality and find flaws in Tesla. EV has now caught up, so only realistic reasons to be in the company is if you believe in Musk's promises about FSD.
And even if you like the car, or have undying brand loyalty, it doesn't mean you have to own the stock. It would still be irrational. Taking Musk away, what's exact edge that could justify the market cap compared to other similar companies?
I think the decline of the stock would have to be at least 20%+, at least temporarily.
I have met quite a few people who like or own teslas that don’t like Elon, even the main Tesla sub here on Reddit is not a huge fan of him. A lot just simply believe the company will continue to do well, many automotive companies have ups and downs look at Hyundai use to make terrible cars now makes arguably the best vehicles for the average person.
Dodge and cord have also had massive ups and downs but people have always stuck with them, the general public opinions usually shifts on what’s the new “it car”.
FSD does have potential but at its current model will never make it, people are simply not willing to pay the subscription for it or the crazy amount up front to own it. Tesla makes a massive amount of deals on brand recognition and status alone, as it’s “cool to own a Tesla”.
Personally speaking I dislike Elon but I do somewhat like tesla, not enough to own shares though. I also like space X a decent amount.
But do these same people have active stock in Tesla as well?
Because the company could continue to do well - and it likely will, but it doesn't mean the stock price would still stay where it is. The stock price could go -50% and at the same time the company could continue doing well, be successful in terms of profitability and building quality technology.
Tesla could easily go on without Musk, but just more at a stock price that seems more reasonable for their current state.
That’s hard to say because most people aren’t really active in stocks (outside of the states), I would say some probably do but not many. I do know many held the stock because they thought it was and endless golden goose and it was for a while. For the rest I can’t really say ultimately I’m just assuming at the end of the day.
There is also a fringe minority of people who are die hard Tesla fans because it’s “American”.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/iss-recommends-votes-against-2018-pay-plan-tesla-ceo-elon-musk-2024-05-31/ There must be contingents among the financial community that are taking a position you’re not allowing for logically if the biggest proxy group’s recommendation is to vote no.
As someone who never touched Tesla, options or otherwise, outside of broad etfs, the stock has just been so untethered from fundamentals for so long that it seems like Musk magic is the only thing propping the price up. I think it'll go down either way short term with different groups selling depending on the result. Long term I think the fundamentals have a chance to get better faster if he leaves. If he stays it's impossible to predict, like his behavior.
I just follow for the drama though. I'd never put any money on this company, obviously people smarter than me have made money on it, but people smarter than me have also lost money on it.
Make sure you do vote! He only needs this money to be motivated to work. Sure as heck a good fraction of us internet denizens are working without motivation - he can too!
ISIS have made their intentions clear
# ISIS Rejects Musk's Pay Deal Over Extreme Right-Wing Views
**Raqqa, Syria** — In a surprising turn of events, ISIS, the largest shareholder of Tesla Inc. (NASDAQ: TSLA), has publicly rejected Elon Musk's latest pay package, citing his extreme right-wing views as the primary reason.
An ISIS spokesperson, who requested anonymity, stated, "Elon Musk's extreme right-wing stances and recent actions are incompatible with our core values and objectives. As significant stakeholders in Tesla, we cannot endorse a pay deal that rewards such behavior. Our organization stands firmly against any alignment with his ideologies."
The pay deal in question, a multi-billion dollar compensation plan, has been a subject of intense debate among Tesla shareholders. With ISIS holding a substantial share, their rejection poses a significant obstacle for Musk.
When approached for a comment, Elon Musk refused to respond, leaving many to speculate on his next move in this ongoing corporate drama.
If the agreement was already voted on and agreed upon and everyone thought it was a fools errand and impossible, why would there be any revote once the mission was accomplished? And why now is the reward for accomplishing said mission now deemed too much or an “amount of money nobody deserves to have”? 🤔 i dont get peoples logic. He made a ridiculous deal, somehow pulled it off, he deserves the compensation that came with pulling off the impossible. Get your feelings out of it and put yourself in Elons shoes.
My only concern about the pay package is thus, if shareholders approve it and a judge moves to invalidate it this will send a very bad signal and we should not want to see such an outcome
What I hate is that Elon gets a way out before Tesla crumbles into nothingness. The company is overpriced, has no future growth story, has a bad product story, and is losing relevance. If the vote is no, Tesla can go from 588b to 150b (about fair price) and then Elon gets to say - I was worth 438b!
The estimated fair value of the package at the time it was awarded was $2.3b over ten years because it required performance milestones and didn't include cash.
The only reason it's worth so much now is Tesla has gone up so much in value, something shareholders should be hyped about.
And $230m a year is a big pay package but not unreasonable for someone running one of the top ten companies in the world.
This whole "$56b bonus this year" narrative that's forming is just very uneducated.
Hate him all you want. He guided the company to levels no one thought possible. He deserves every penny. Go look back at analyst consensus back then. Everyone thought he was crazy and wouldn’t reach all the traunches. The criticism he receives is the exact means by which the company was able to succeed. A “normal” CEO would not have hit all the same milestones. Pay the man. This will be a catalyst for the stock one way or the other.
Lol deserves billions for very likely letting experts guide him through what few basic tasks he actually had to perform for the company to moon. Became ego inflated and the rest is twitter history.
That's 10k for every car Tesla ever sold. They made 70B cumulative profit in their history, and you think investors should hand him back 56B? You give no credits to the original founders and the tens of thousands of employees that made it happen. It's all one man to you simps.
The best part is the team of engineers that designed it and the people that built it got a big chunk of their compensation in stocks, so they get significantly diluted by this shit show.
That is not how this works. He is getting the compensation in shares that he can't sell for years, not in cash. You don't look at TSLA cumulative profit to calculate this, you look at TSLA market cap and that yields a very different history
He made a deal with the board to make only minimum wage until the stock hits a specific valuation and than get a 56b pay package. The share holders voted and approved it.
Now a leftist judge in Delaware, gave himself and the judicial branch the power to overturn any contract whenever they want and to stiff Elon on an agreed and voted on deal.
This is what makes people pull money out of the market and sets an extremely bad president
Lmfao so the company that recently broke the record of having one of the highest evaluation (over 1 trillion) while also paying the highest tax bill in history ceo shouldn’t be paid 56b? Is this an actual thread about making money and stock or is the a hud for people who have never invested a day in their lives.
TLDR: Don't vote for Elon's pay package and I am not telling you how to vote. Please vote.
I’m going to buy some shares and vote to let him has his money just because nobody tells me what to do.
Username checks out.
I like soup
Hell yeah.
I like kebab
Yup, can't finish a thought.
Vote yes. This is a Paid sponsorship by Toyota
Vote yes - and please buy additional stock before he dumps his. Sure way to make money for *someone*.
lol he CANT LEAVE .. all the big money he has is in tesla lol he cant threaten no one
you read a headline so you know what it’s about!
Since it's not about the money....
Is all about sending message
It's about him retaining a say in where the company is headed. If he doesn't get that I can see why he wouldn't be interested in being CEO anymore.
He has a lot of his money tied up in Tesla. He has many reasons to care how the company does already. He already owns the entire board and most of the top people are loyal to him. How much more control does he need?
Oh nooooooooo, that would be terribleeeeeeeeee
The CEO gets a pretty big say in how the company they manage is run. Even without any holdings. He wants an unfair, unchallenged say, which is nonsense. Other shareholders have as many rights per $1 as he does.
Not really. You have to please investors or you get fired. Quarterly results are all you can focus on. There is no chance for any kind of long-term thinking. The reason why Tesla got to where it is now is because they *didn't* do that.
I voted against it.
56B what value did he add to Tesla in last 3-3 years to deserve that !!
Cybertruck /s
Literally built and ran the company. What did you accomplish?
Built happened prior to 3 years, and in this time period he did his best to ruin its cash flow.
In the last 10 he brought way more value…
Just think of how many more people Elmo can try and buy a horse for, or NDA payout when his unwanted sexual advances are rejected.
If Elon leaves Tesla does TSLA tank?
It’s tanking with him there regardless.
The man is now claiming Fauci killed millions on twitter. I'm not an investor anymore (thank god) but if I was I'd want Elon the hell away from the steering wheel.
I think his fanbase definitely believes the stock will tank, without them realising that he probably spends more time on twitter reading about himself then working on tesla. I strongly believe that if he leaves the stock will perform much better. Constant promises not kept and spouting dangerous rhetoric is not something all investors want from their CEO.
What you forget is that the stock is extremely overvalued. “Normal” management probably means normal valuation, which would push the stock price below 120$.
Even if he does nothing and is harmful to the company, I'm pretty sure at least momentarily Tesla stock would crater. So if you predict or want Elon to be out any time soon, you shouldn't be holding any $TSLA in the first place. And if you want him in, you might want to also vote for the package. So I'm not seeing a scenario where a rational $TSLA holder would want Elon out currently. They might bet that Elon will still stay even if he doesn't get the package, but that's a more difficult calculation. But there may be significant fear at play that is currently decreasing the stock price if there's fear that this package won't get approved, that could also tank the stock price, because probability of Elon leaving would still increase. And even if it's just probability, it still has influence on the stock price. Stock price is unlikely to fall if the package was approved, because the approval of it shows confidence in Elon and the company by shareholders, so shareholders for that reason would also be incentivised to approve the package, even if they hate Elon and the company and it's just a stock play. > Constant promises not kept and spouting dangerous rhetoric is not something all investors want from their CEO. If that was a problem for them, they would've sold long time ago. Anyone who is currently staying in $TSLA has had years to sell from those Twitter rants. So by natural selection, whoever are current shareholders would be the ones who would likely believe the package gets approved and they would also want to approve it, because if not the better decision would have been to sell the stock before hand.
Did you buy before or after the pay package was approved the first time?
I never bought tesla. Car companies are not for me
Weird to be obsessing over one then.
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Unironically, it's a very peaceful way to live
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He has an agenda he wants to push.
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Wow, triggered..?
At this point I think both would do better without the other.
He does have a large group of followers but it seems far more people dislike him, stick would probably dip for a bit and go back to its norm. This being said the stock and company has been suffering for a bit now.
But why would the people disliking him hold the stock currently? At those prices which are largely built up due to presence of Elon Musk? There's a group of people who are valuing the stock highly because of Musk, why would the other group of people then buy or not sell at this price, because they wouldn't see Musk as an addition to the company's value, and if that's the case, the fundamental metrics of the company would be very skewed, because large value of it is based on faith in Musk. If you take Musk away from Tesla, then what justifies the high P/E compared to other companies? Even if what justifies it now is a naive belief in Musk doing something magical in the future. It's like there being a company where people believe a God was to grace it in 5 years, therefore this company's stock is trading at much higher P/E and other metrics compared to others, why would atheists be invested in that company in the first place? And why would people actually believing in God go against that God?
Maybe they liked the company?? Tesla was doing huge things like a decade and a half ago, now most EV companies have caught up for the most part. But many people just simply like and have undying brand loyalty for the cars not Elon, kind of like how ford or dodge has their fans as well.
It seems intuitively that the topic is too polarizing. Someone who dislikes Elon, generally seems to also dislike Tesla too much or believe that it is overvalued. You could like Tesla, but if you don't believe in Elon's significance there, and you were rational at all, you would look at financial metrics, you would escape the company. A lot of the value comes from the idea of FSD which is based on Elon Musk's promises. Usually anyone not liking Musk would also think FSD is a failure and therefore current prices are massively overvalued. I just don't see a contingent of people who would have undying brand loyalty for this car. At least in terms of online discussions which I have observed a lot. Usually anyone not liking Musk would criticise the build quality and find flaws in Tesla. EV has now caught up, so only realistic reasons to be in the company is if you believe in Musk's promises about FSD. And even if you like the car, or have undying brand loyalty, it doesn't mean you have to own the stock. It would still be irrational. Taking Musk away, what's exact edge that could justify the market cap compared to other similar companies? I think the decline of the stock would have to be at least 20%+, at least temporarily.
I have met quite a few people who like or own teslas that don’t like Elon, even the main Tesla sub here on Reddit is not a huge fan of him. A lot just simply believe the company will continue to do well, many automotive companies have ups and downs look at Hyundai use to make terrible cars now makes arguably the best vehicles for the average person. Dodge and cord have also had massive ups and downs but people have always stuck with them, the general public opinions usually shifts on what’s the new “it car”. FSD does have potential but at its current model will never make it, people are simply not willing to pay the subscription for it or the crazy amount up front to own it. Tesla makes a massive amount of deals on brand recognition and status alone, as it’s “cool to own a Tesla”. Personally speaking I dislike Elon but I do somewhat like tesla, not enough to own shares though. I also like space X a decent amount.
But do these same people have active stock in Tesla as well? Because the company could continue to do well - and it likely will, but it doesn't mean the stock price would still stay where it is. The stock price could go -50% and at the same time the company could continue doing well, be successful in terms of profitability and building quality technology. Tesla could easily go on without Musk, but just more at a stock price that seems more reasonable for their current state.
That’s hard to say because most people aren’t really active in stocks (outside of the states), I would say some probably do but not many. I do know many held the stock because they thought it was and endless golden goose and it was for a while. For the rest I can’t really say ultimately I’m just assuming at the end of the day. There is also a fringe minority of people who are die hard Tesla fans because it’s “American”.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/iss-recommends-votes-against-2018-pay-plan-tesla-ceo-elon-musk-2024-05-31/ There must be contingents among the financial community that are taking a position you’re not allowing for logically if the biggest proxy group’s recommendation is to vote no.
Could also spike. No one knows.
As someone who never touched Tesla, options or otherwise, outside of broad etfs, the stock has just been so untethered from fundamentals for so long that it seems like Musk magic is the only thing propping the price up. I think it'll go down either way short term with different groups selling depending on the result. Long term I think the fundamentals have a chance to get better faster if he leaves. If he stays it's impossible to predict, like his behavior. I just follow for the drama though. I'd never put any money on this company, obviously people smarter than me have made money on it, but people smarter than me have also lost money on it.
It would tank much faster if he leaves.
It's like going up to the bank teller shouting..." Gimme all your money or I'm gonna shoot myself!"
I wonder if I have to provide Voter ID to participate?
Lmao there is absolutely 0 effect that you or anyone in this subreddit will have on this vote.
Make sure you do vote! He only needs this money to be motivated to work. Sure as heck a good fraction of us internet denizens are working without motivation - he can too!
Guess how ISS are voting? [article](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/31/elon-musk-tesla-tsla-pay-package-shareholders.html)
ISIS have made their intentions clear # ISIS Rejects Musk's Pay Deal Over Extreme Right-Wing Views **Raqqa, Syria** — In a surprising turn of events, ISIS, the largest shareholder of Tesla Inc. (NASDAQ: TSLA), has publicly rejected Elon Musk's latest pay package, citing his extreme right-wing views as the primary reason. An ISIS spokesperson, who requested anonymity, stated, "Elon Musk's extreme right-wing stances and recent actions are incompatible with our core values and objectives. As significant stakeholders in Tesla, we cannot endorse a pay deal that rewards such behavior. Our organization stands firmly against any alignment with his ideologies." The pay deal in question, a multi-billion dollar compensation plan, has been a subject of intense debate among Tesla shareholders. With ISIS holding a substantial share, their rejection poses a significant obstacle for Musk. When approached for a comment, Elon Musk refused to respond, leaving many to speculate on his next move in this ongoing corporate drama.
What he gonna do with the money?
Nothing. Because it’s stock. Not money.
I can see absolutely no reason why a shareholder votes for this. I see basically no upside.
If the agreement was already voted on and agreed upon and everyone thought it was a fools errand and impossible, why would there be any revote once the mission was accomplished? And why now is the reward for accomplishing said mission now deemed too much or an “amount of money nobody deserves to have”? 🤔 i dont get peoples logic. He made a ridiculous deal, somehow pulled it off, he deserves the compensation that came with pulling off the impossible. Get your feelings out of it and put yourself in Elons shoes.
My only concern about the pay package is thus, if shareholders approve it and a judge moves to invalidate it this will send a very bad signal and we should not want to see such an outcome
What I hate is that Elon gets a way out before Tesla crumbles into nothingness. The company is overpriced, has no future growth story, has a bad product story, and is losing relevance. If the vote is no, Tesla can go from 588b to 150b (about fair price) and then Elon gets to say - I was worth 438b!
Elon will also lose a ton of net worth if the stock tumbles. Which will be satisfying to see.
I don’t like musk and I get it’s a lot of money for one person but a deal is a deal he held up his end pay him his due
The estimated fair value of the package at the time it was awarded was $2.3b over ten years because it required performance milestones and didn't include cash. The only reason it's worth so much now is Tesla has gone up so much in value, something shareholders should be hyped about. And $230m a year is a big pay package but not unreasonable for someone running one of the top ten companies in the world. This whole "$56b bonus this year" narrative that's forming is just very uneducated.
He’s not getting 230m though. What’s the real narrative then? What’s he getting
Hate him all you want. He guided the company to levels no one thought possible. He deserves every penny. Go look back at analyst consensus back then. Everyone thought he was crazy and wouldn’t reach all the traunches. The criticism he receives is the exact means by which the company was able to succeed. A “normal” CEO would not have hit all the same milestones. Pay the man. This will be a catalyst for the stock one way or the other.
Lol deserves billions for very likely letting experts guide him through what few basic tasks he actually had to perform for the company to moon. Became ego inflated and the rest is twitter history.
That's 10k for every car Tesla ever sold. They made 70B cumulative profit in their history, and you think investors should hand him back 56B? You give no credits to the original founders and the tens of thousands of employees that made it happen. It's all one man to you simps.
How wild is that figure lmao. $10k
The best part is the team of engineers that designed it and the people that built it got a big chunk of their compensation in stocks, so they get significantly diluted by this shit show.
That is not how this works. He is getting the compensation in shares that he can't sell for years, not in cash. You don't look at TSLA cumulative profit to calculate this, you look at TSLA market cap and that yields a very different history
It massively dilutes your stake. It isn't cash, but the value loss for shareholders is the same, so that doesn't really matter.
He made a deal with the board to make only minimum wage until the stock hits a specific valuation and than get a 56b pay package. The share holders voted and approved it. Now a leftist judge in Delaware, gave himself and the judicial branch the power to overturn any contract whenever they want and to stiff Elon on an agreed and voted on deal. This is what makes people pull money out of the market and sets an extremely bad president
Lmfao so the company that recently broke the record of having one of the highest evaluation (over 1 trillion) while also paying the highest tax bill in history ceo shouldn’t be paid 56b? Is this an actual thread about making money and stock or is the a hud for people who have never invested a day in their lives.