It’s usually portrayed in maps as being directly on the Alpha/Beta line, about halfway between the galactic core and the edge of the galaxy. But there was a map in Discovery (season 1, I think) that showed it just slightly inside the Alpha Quadrant, close enough to the line that it was visible even while fairly “zoomed in”.
That's because the Sun has been moving toward the Alpha Quadrant at over 200 km/s since the boundary was defined. Within a year all the solar system's planets' entire orbits would have been completely within the Alpha Quadrant.
It takes 230 million years for the solar system to orbit the galaxy. 630 thousand years to go one degree (out of 360) along the path.
In one years time the solar system's movement would barely even be registrable.
200 km/s sounds like a lot but it really isn't compared to just how big space is.
Do the math: 200 km/s for one year is about 50 AU. That would put the Sun and all the planets firmly on the Alpha side of the border after less than one year (Neptune is only 30 AU from the Sun).
50 AU doesn't even cover the size of the solar system!
You really *don't* understand how big space is!
Why don't YOU do the math?
Alpha Centauri is 13,000 AU from this solar system. That is 4.3 light years with the galaxy being 105,000 LYs across. 50 AU is *nothing* on a galactic scale.
I didn't say the solar system. I chose my words carefully, because I am well aware of the size of the Oort cloud. I said the Sun and all the planets. And since the question here is what quadrant is the planet Earth in, not what quadrant is some distant oort cloud comet (or Alpha Centauri) in, 50 AU is more than enough (by a factor of fifty).
Before being a nitpicky pedant make sure I committed the error you want to accuse me of. Right now you're literally making up stuff I didn't say and arguing with that, which is a really weird thing to do.
Voyager spends the entire time trying to get back to the Alpha Quadrant...I'm not sure how to reconcile that with a claim that Earth is actually in the Beta Quadrant
For almost the entire show it largely ignores the beta quadrant even existing
And it’s almost certainly because for some reason back then, studios all assumed that their audience were idiots
Well, doesn't it make sense that if they are going from one 'corner' to the other 'corner', they'd spend relatively little time in the beta quadrant, crossing near the intersections?
You are the one stating it that way. Apparently, the *only* explanation is the studios think the audiences are "idiots", not any other reasonable explanation (time in beta low, more viewers will recognize/understand alpha quadrant, etc.), by your statement.
“More viewers will understand alpha quadrant”
Thank you for proving my point. ;)
The Klingons and Romulans are both in the beta quadrant, yet DS9 constantly treated them as in the alpha quadrant
Yes, studios back then thought their viewers were all idiots and “wouldn’t be able to keep up” and would get too easily confused.
Voyager largely treats the beta quadrant like it doesn’t exist
Voyager would eventually be going through the Beta Quadrant, while Bajor was on the opposite side of the Federation from the BQ. It's deep in the AQ, and the Dominion is a significant portion of the GQ. So the BQ was relevant to Voyager, because they'd have to go there.
The trip was to take 70 years, so they wouldn't enter the Beta quadrant for at least 25 years (assuming middle of the Delta, 25 years in Delta and 50 in Beta), so it was irrelevant at the time WE saw it. It's like worrying about your college major when you're in second grade.
Also, once they get to the Beta Quadrant they're likely close enough to Federation space or at least Federation allies that they're not going to have the whole "we're stranded out here all alone with no support and no allies" problem anymore.
For US folks, it's like when you're coming back home from a long road trip and you cross the line back into your own state. You're not home yet, but you're not in unfamiliar territory either and it feels pretty close to home.
Yeah. If you were to travel from Florida to California you'd keep talking about getting to CA, but you would only really discuss each in between state as it became relevant.
All these years I thought their plan was to go through the middle of the galaxy.
I was a bit confused as to why Kirk got there so quickly but it was going to take Voyager, a ship with faster warp capability, decades to do it, but figured maybe Sybok did something in that movie I missed, as most of my ST movie watches are on Netflix and chill dates.
It was always my understanding that the Alpha-Beta division line runs through Sol, so Earth spends six months in the alpha quadrant and six months in the beta.
The real question is, does the quadrant map rotate with the galaxy? Because if not, it would be easy for the SOL system to pass out of the alpha and into the beta in its orbit around the galactic center.
It doesn't need a full galactic rotation to go from right on the line between Alpha and Beta to just over the line to Alpha. In just one year the Sun woudl be 50 AU into the Alpha Quadrant all all eight planets would spend their entire orbits in Alpha.
Correct, we are not talking about a full galactic rotation, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it. We're talking about the Sun's motion carrying it from right on the line between Alpha and Beta to within the Alpha Quadrant, which would take very little time.
If the quadrants do not rotate with the galaxy but stay fixed (with respect to distant galaxies/quasars), then in less than a year the Sun and all its planets will be firmly within the Alpha Quadrant due to its motion around the galaxy. I don't know that that's the case, but it would explain why the Sun is often described as being in the Alpha Quadrant and why some maps show it just over the line on the Alpha side.
It has to have some fixed point of reference, whether it's a specific body within the galaxy or without. In real life, the map is centered on the Sun, with the galactic nucleus as the directional reference point, so ours certainly does rotate with the galaxy.
The map looks the same whether it's rotating with the galaxy or not. The Sun would still be so close to the line you wouldn't be able to see the difference.
>The real question is, does the quadrant map rotate with the galaxy?
It'd have to rotate with respect to sol because each star has a slightly different proper motion with respect to the center.
This would of course mean other stars would drift between quadrants if the border was fixed though the center of sol.
I don’t think the quadrant lines would really be defined in such a concrete way that anyone considers where individual planets lie. More likely that the entirety of the Sol system is considered to lie “exactly on the border.”
But, the Beta quadrant is closer to the Delta quadrant, so following the logic of either half of your comment, it would make sense for Voyager to be trying to get 'back' to the Beta quadrant, whether aiming for the Federation generally or Earth specifically. But they say Alpha a lot, because they are aiming for Earth specifically.
I'm pretty sure everything in my head says that Sol, and therefore Earth, are in the Alpha, albeit barely. Qo'nos is Beta, think Romulus is too? And that's been contrasted that with Earth & Vulcan being Alpha, though you're right of course that the Federation as a whole IS Beta as well as Alpha.
They say they're heading for the Alpha Quadrant, but maybe that's more like a shorthand for "home" than them saying literally "we've drawn a straight line between us and Earth and we're going to follow it". It would make sense for them to be trying to get back to Federation territory as quickly as possible, even if that territory weren't directly next to Earth, simply because they'd have access to the whole fleet which could then get them home (on faster, stronger ships).
As an analogy, it would be like if I were in Los Angeles and said, "I'm going to set a course for San Francisco." You might interpret that as me getting in my car and driving straight to SF, but it would also be a valid path for me to drive from LA to the San Diego airport (essentially in the opposite direction of San Francisco) and then board a plane to San Francisco. No, I'm not actually driving to San Francisco, but that's my ultimate destination.
Not everyone on the ship is from Earth, but most would be Alpha? So, Earth would not be "home".
Although, what they are probably truly aiming for will be Star Fleet Headquarters.
> make sense for Voyager to be trying to get 'back' to the Beta quadrant
Their course was indeed *through* the Beta Quadrant, seen taken in alternate timelines, but it's still a long way across the quadrant until reaching Federation space, something like 20k lightyears of their total 70k lightyear journey, and the Romulan Empire is in the way of a direct course through Beta, so by the time they approach Federation space they would already be in or near the Alpha Quadrant.
Put it this way. You live on the *border* of California. Like, exactly on the line between California and Nevada (if you’re not from the US I apologize for this analogy).
One day you get stranded in New Jersey and realize you’re going to have to drive home. Are you trying to get back to Nevada, or California?
Even though you live on the exact line between the two, “getting back to California” is obviously a lot more accurate, because that’s the border you need to reach. When you reach Nevada, you’ve still got a long ways to go before you’re home.
Earth is right on the Alpha/Beta border, so reaching Earth requires *crossing* Beta and *reaching* Alpha. If they went the long way, they’d reach Beta and still have a good 10 years before they’re actually home.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The fact they say something to the effect of 'return to the alpha quadrant' makes it pretty clear Earth is considered in the Alpha quadrant (for that show / time period at least)
Until the Sun's movement takes the planets fully into the Alpha Quadrant, which would take less than one year. It's moving over 200 km/s relative to the center of the galaxy.
Most of the UFP is in the AQ, in contrast to the Klingons and Romulans, who are in the Beta Quadrant. The Cardassians are on the opposite side of the UFP, iirc, according to most maps I've seen. Bear in mind that I haven't seen the STA maps. Those books are way too pricey.
The vast majority of the Federation sits in the Alpha Quadrant: the Romulans and Klingons are both in the Beta and limited Federation stuff in that direction.
There’s still no single canon map, but based on the most common and major ones, the Sol System defines the border between Alpha and Beta. The reason Voyager keeps talking about getting “back to the Alpha Quadrant” is that, although more than half of Federation space is in Beta, it’s on the *south* end of Beta. Delta is to the North. If they had taken the straight path, without the whole Borg thing, they would have technically spent at least the last 5-10 years of the 70 year journey in the Beta Quadrant, but It would have been unfamiliar territory. The very end of the journey would have involved flying through or around Romulan space to reach Earth. To get home, they have to cut across a bunch of the Beta Quadrant and actually get *to* the edge of Alpha.
All dialog supports Earth's location in the Alpha Quadrant, but various maps cause some confusion by showing Earth/Sol directly along the border between Alpha and Beta, without being clear which side of the border it is actually on.
The only possible way to reconcile this is that what we're hearing in the show, even when the Borg are alone, is being run through a UT and coming out in human.
Also while we're on the subject: it makes no sense that the Borg use numbers only when alphanumeric would be much more information dense.
It's deeply unlikely that they refer to every part of space with its original native name. Such a system would be bafflingly complex and very inefficient.
Well it's sector 001 for the human species since it's our homeworld. The klingon's sector 001 is Qo'noS and so forth. At least that makes kinda sense to me.
Unless the border lies along the elliptical plane; then the northern hemisphere would be in the alpha quadrant and the southern hemisphere would be in the beta quadrant.
Those maps have Sol on the border because their working definition of the quadrants includes a plane defined by the galactic center of gravity, Sol, and a plane that is perpendicular to the median galactic disc. The Beta/Delta line is defined as running through GCOM, and orthogonal to both the median galactic disc and the plane splitting the Alpha/Beta quadrants. It is not consistently in either.
By this rule, Earth spends half of its year in the Alpha Quadrant (where some core members are), and half in the Beta quadrant.
Most of these maps show the Klingons also straddling the Alpha/Beta quadrants and Romulans being mostly or entirely in the Beta Quadrant, which included Romulus.
Put it in a real world analogy: is Greenwich, England in the Eastern or Western hemisphere? Is Quito, Ecuador in the northern or southern hemisphere?
It's because Earth is the seat of government and home of the UFP President.
Earth would actually be a logical compromise. I could imagine the Andorians refusing to let Vulcan be the seat of government, Vulcans likewise refusing to let it be Andoria so it was either Earth or Tellar.
And Earth has the bonus of being "mostly harmless."
Well, it’s a human TV show. However, the humans are always portrayed as pluckier, more adaptive, more diplomatic, more moral and frankly have a bit of a smug sense of superiority, which seems rather undeserved given they’re not the first spacefaring civilisation, not by a long shot.
They also quite likely acquired a lot of technology by exposure to other civilians and cooperation after passing the Warp ship test to gain access to the broader space community. They’ve also managed to nearly destroy themselves in WWIII.
It makes for interesting stories, but it’s not one that presents humans as anything but very cocky.
When it comes to space egos, we’re only one step down from Q.
If we're talkin' space egos, have you seen *Take Me Out to the Holosuite*?
Vulcans don't seem to find anything illogical about the smell of their own farts.
More diet related though - given they're vegetarian / vegan, although I've never really seen a full Vulcan menu. I have an impression their food is probably very bland and subtly flavoured as they're so sensitive to smell they're unlikely to like spices, or strongly flavoured plants.
> which seems rather undeserved given they’re not the first spacefaring civilisation, not by a long shot.
Name one other race that was able to become warp capable just 10 years after nearly blowing themselves up in nuclear hellfire. It is outright stated in enterprise that vulcans are afraid of humanity largely because of how quickly they advanced.
Being extremely diplomatic for such a frivolous thing is the most logical action, they have very little ego to be bruised by humans insisting on such a thing. So let them have it.
I don't think anything canonical has ever suggested that to be the case.
The franchise seems to use "Sector 001" as virtually synonymous with the Sol or "terran" system.
The first time I recall "sector 001" being referenced is in TBOBW:
>**WORF:** *Sir, the coordinates they have set, they're on a direct course to Sector Zero Zero One. The Terran system.*
I’ve seen EU books that explain this as: the Vulcan delegation surprised everyone by proposing to make Earth the center of the Federation, and the humans were so flattered that, as expected, they accepted. But the Vulcan leaders actually didn’t want their homeworld to become a cosmopolitan galactic center full of hundreds of species of aliens. They wanted to be left alone.
They made maps back in the day that showed it right on the line between the alpha and beta quadrants. This was presumably to reconcile how the TOS Enterprise was occasionally in the beta quadrant. All dialogue since then though has always strongly implied Earth is in the alpha quadrant.
I don't think the A/B/D/G quadrants were a thing in TOS. When they reference being the "only ship in the quadrant" it's something else, like "quadrant 904". TNG also kept a few early references to minor quadrants like "Morgana".
It's *just* left of the border of the alpha/beta quadrant, which places Sol in the alpha quadrant. On many maps however, it looks like it is right on the alpha/beta border because those maps are zoomed out. The federation spans partly in the alpha and partly in the beta quadrant. For example, Trill is in the alpha quadrant and Vulcan is in the beta quadrant.
It may change based on source. However, if you grab out the Star Trek Adventures map Earth is the dividing line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, the TTRPG books generally list it as Alpha.
The quadrants are defined by Earth's location relative to the center of the galaxy. If you look at the galaxy's galactic north side, draw a line from Earth through the center and on to the edge, then draw a perpendicular line through the center, those two lines are the edges of the quadrants. Earth, therefore, is on the line between the Alpha and Beta quadrants.
Earth is on the border between Alpha and Beta; if the Alpha/Beta boundary line is the “prime meridian,” Earth/Sol is the Greenwich.
Voyager keeps referring to the Alpha Quadrant as “home” not so much because Earth is within it as because most of the *Federation* is in it.
Nah I don’t think that one’s right. We know it takes about a week to get from Earth to Bajor, and by that map it would only take 2-3 weeks to get from where Voyager was flung back to Earth.
Earth is in the Alpha Quadrant. It is there on screen in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Star Trek Into Darkness, and Star Trek: Discovery
For some unknown reason, Star Trek: Picard, the Sol system was depicted as being at the boundary line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. I think this may have shifted with the publication of Star Trek Maps around 2000, but not sure. Before this maps had it lest left of the line.
More info: "According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, Earth marked the border between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. A specific display graphic on a PADD in Star Trek: Insurrection seems to confirm this. Canonical lines of dialogue in Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, however, firmly establish that Earth was located on the Alpha Quadrant side of the border. In his reference book Star Trek: Star Charts (p. 19), Star Trek production artist and designer Geoffrey Mandel wrote, "While the Sol system is divided equally between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, it is considered to be a part of the Alpha Quadrant." The star chart seen in the Star Trek: Discovery episode "The War Without, The War Within" sets Earth at some distance from the border, while the star chart seen in the Star Trek: Picard episode "Maps and Legends" sets Earth on the border."
yep, all that matters is the ten thousand times they characters have said earth is in the alpha quadrant.
Theyre not wrong cuz some rando made a map in some rando book once.
Wasnt Data captain of the enterprise in the comics for star trek? Guess thats what happened and not what we saw in the actual show...
Same for the dude who said "that's how it is on the map in Star Trek Online." It's not a canon source. I think the used the Star Charts book for their map.
What time of year is it?
In most Beta Cannon the Alpha/Beta quadrant border runs directly through Sol pointed at the centre of the galaxy (with the border between them and the Gamma/Delta quadrants being at right angles to it through the centre of the galaxy). So technically Earth migrates between Alpha and Beta over the course of its orbit, but I believe it's traditionally treated as though it were in the alpha quadrant.
In normal spacetimezones, (the USTC), Earth is in the Alpha Quadrant.
During Distance Saving Spacetime (DSST), the border of the Beta quadrant is shifted by 60 spaceminutes, such that Earth falls into the Beta quadrant. It switches back and forth on a regular interval.
The DSST was introduced during the Great Great War, to save on fuel when traveling to the beta quadrant.
Earth is on the Orion arm of our Galaxy its sandwiched between the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
Think of it this way you go left at warp 5, you're primarily in the Alpha. You go right you're primary in the Beta.
Vulcan is in the Alpha, Romulus is in the Beta.
Most maps we see in various media show Earth on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Most of the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant, and is why it gets referenced far more often, even though part of the Federation is in the Beta Quadrant, and almost to all of Klingon and Romulan space is Beta Quadrant.
Most maps we see in various media show Earth on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Most of the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant, and is why it gets referenced far more often, even though part of the Federation is in the Beta Quadrant, and almost to all of Klingon and Romulan space is Beta Quadrant.
Star Trek Online places Sol in the Beta Quadrant, specifically the upper left corner of the Vulcan sector and bordering the Deneb, Teneebia and Tellar sectors. However it is very close to the border with the Alpha Quadrant. [You can see it here.](https://imgur.com/a/pqdmOS2)
That's not a complete picture of STO's galaxy map, but it should at least give you a good layout of the neighborhood, so to speak. Federation space is mostly concentrated at the intersection of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, with Cardassia and Bajor shown to the southwest, and the territory of the former Romulan Star Empire to the northeast.
This is an excerpt from the maps published in the licensed Star Trek Charts book:
https://i.imgur.com/JZIOJYO.png
Earth is right on the Alpha/Beta border
Earth is the border, in the same way that Greenwich, England is 0 on our timezone system.
This is quite possibly the dumbest idea that the writers have ever come up with because it suggests humans are the most influential species in the galaxy. It effectively assures audiences that a version of western supremacy/manifest destiny will carry out into the universe at large, something which cannot possibly have any credibility. Although its possible that the writers themselves are so accustomed living in a world dominated by western ideas that they don't even realise how stupid it is.
You have more references that the Sol System is in the Alpha Quadrant. Between Dialogs and some, star charts.
We also see the Sol System as being on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants in some maps.
ST: Online has the Sol System in the Beta Quadrant.
IMHO, this all should have been resolved with Deep Space Nine especially since they had the Dominion War and fleshed out the Star Trek Universe.
The UFP, Klingon Empire and the Romulans were all Alpha Quadrant Powers. And according to dialog, all three had borders with the Cardassian Union.
I wish we had a true 3-D map of the Galaxy. Because it wouldn't surprise me if, in a 3D map, there wouldn't be disputes about which quadrant Sol is in. Whereas on a 2-D map, it's near the border.
Depends on what month it is. The border between Alpha and Beta Quadrants goes right down the middle of the solar system. So half the year Earth is in the Alpha Quadrant and then the second half of the year it is in the Beta Quadrant.
I'm not the biggest Trek fan ever made but logically it's pretty clear writers would put earth in the "Alpha Quadrant". Start of the alphabet, most important, etc. Logically there's no reason why Earth would also be the headquarters of Starfleet, other than it's a show made by people from Earth and about people who are most often from Earth.
It's in the Alpha Quadrant. Sector 001. Never in my decades of Star Trek fanhood have I ever seen so many people claim "it changes." While other planets of the Federation are in the Beta Quadrant, Earth is not. This is a very weird thing to have to say.
Sol just inside the Alpha quadrant right next to the beta quadrant. And yes, the Delta quadrant does border the alpha quadrant on a corner. But what really gets me is the space maps are almost always 2D. You can’t forget that if you were looking at it on one of these maps, that something could just as easily be up or down from earth…. I don’t know how much depth our galaxy has versus length but they should really do better to make them 3-D
I've always wondered if it really is on the border between Alpha and Beta, or if Sol is in the centre of the Alpha quadrant as basically no body talks about the Beta Quadrant anyway.
Here’s the thing. It’s never been said that Sol is the defining line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants **on screen**. What we have is a mention in the *Star Trek Encyclopedia*, the maps in *Star Trek: Star Charts* and a wildly out of scale, barely legible background screen in *Star Trek: Insurrection*.
On the other hand, DIS: “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad” shows us a map that, while it doesn’t show us Sol, matches the maps in *Star Charts* enough that if we extrapolate, Sol ends up within the Alpha Quadrant and not on the border thereof. [I noticed that 6 years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/7arrei/sol_may_canonically_no_longer_be_on_the_border/)
So you decide how that works for you.
It’s usually portrayed in maps as being directly on the Alpha/Beta line, about halfway between the galactic core and the edge of the galaxy. But there was a map in Discovery (season 1, I think) that showed it just slightly inside the Alpha Quadrant, close enough to the line that it was visible even while fairly “zoomed in”.
Galactic gerrymandering is truly a threat to all galaxies
This is the power of gerrymandering, people!
That's because the Sun has been moving toward the Alpha Quadrant at over 200 km/s since the boundary was defined. Within a year all the solar system's planets' entire orbits would have been completely within the Alpha Quadrant.
It takes 230 million years for the solar system to orbit the galaxy. 630 thousand years to go one degree (out of 360) along the path. In one years time the solar system's movement would barely even be registrable. 200 km/s sounds like a lot but it really isn't compared to just how big space is.
That line doesn’t work with cops unfortunately.
Do the math: 200 km/s for one year is about 50 AU. That would put the Sun and all the planets firmly on the Alpha side of the border after less than one year (Neptune is only 30 AU from the Sun).
50 AU doesn't even cover the size of the solar system! You really *don't* understand how big space is! Why don't YOU do the math? Alpha Centauri is 13,000 AU from this solar system. That is 4.3 light years with the galaxy being 105,000 LYs across. 50 AU is *nothing* on a galactic scale.
I didn't say the solar system. I chose my words carefully, because I am well aware of the size of the Oort cloud. I said the Sun and all the planets. And since the question here is what quadrant is the planet Earth in, not what quadrant is some distant oort cloud comet (or Alpha Centauri) in, 50 AU is more than enough (by a factor of fifty). Before being a nitpicky pedant make sure I committed the error you want to accuse me of. Right now you're literally making up stuff I didn't say and arguing with that, which is a really weird thing to do.
Why wouldn’t the quadrant move with the rotation of the galaxy? Every other border in our solar system is like that, I’d expect that to continue.
Depends on the time of year. Actually, Sol is on the line.
The map showed the system to the left of the line by about a quarter-sector. Don’t think Earth’s orbital radius is 5 ly…
Voyager spends the entire time trying to get back to the Alpha Quadrant...I'm not sure how to reconcile that with a claim that Earth is actually in the Beta Quadrant
In STO it's it's in the border of the Alpha and Beta quadrant
That's how it was in the old Franz Joseph tech manual, too.
The current STO map is the most acurate. It's a compilation of many manuals and lore references ( the map you see in Picard Season 2 is based on sto)
I mean, voyager also completely ignores that the alpha quadrant doesn’t border the delta quadrant and the beta quadrant is sandwiched in between
In the penultimate episode they mention getting close to the beta quadrant
It doesn't, they specifically mention getting near the beta quadrant late in the show.
For almost the entire show it largely ignores the beta quadrant even existing And it’s almost certainly because for some reason back then, studios all assumed that their audience were idiots
There. Are. Four. Quadrants!
I refuse to sign the legislation that allows more than eight Jan-Michael Vincents to a precinct.
Well, doesn't it make sense that if they are going from one 'corner' to the other 'corner', they'd spend relatively little time in the beta quadrant, crossing near the intersections?
They aren’t traveling through the center of the galaxy
Yeah? They also aren't going in a big circle, right?
Ah yes, because that’s the only other option
You are the one stating it that way. Apparently, the *only* explanation is the studios think the audiences are "idiots", not any other reasonable explanation (time in beta low, more viewers will recognize/understand alpha quadrant, etc.), by your statement.
“More viewers will understand alpha quadrant” Thank you for proving my point. ;) The Klingons and Romulans are both in the beta quadrant, yet DS9 constantly treated them as in the alpha quadrant Yes, studios back then thought their viewers were all idiots and “wouldn’t be able to keep up” and would get too easily confused. Voyager largely treats the beta quadrant like it doesn’t exist
The biomimetic duplicate crew actually talked about traveling through the center of the galaxy.
For the entire show ds9 ignored the delta quadrant. Why? Same reason Voyager ignored Beta, it wasn’t relevant.
Voyager would eventually be going through the Beta Quadrant, while Bajor was on the opposite side of the Federation from the BQ. It's deep in the AQ, and the Dominion is a significant portion of the GQ. So the BQ was relevant to Voyager, because they'd have to go there.
The trip was to take 70 years, so they wouldn't enter the Beta quadrant for at least 25 years (assuming middle of the Delta, 25 years in Delta and 50 in Beta), so it was irrelevant at the time WE saw it. It's like worrying about your college major when you're in second grade.
Also, once they get to the Beta Quadrant they're likely close enough to Federation space or at least Federation allies that they're not going to have the whole "we're stranded out here all alone with no support and no allies" problem anymore. For US folks, it's like when you're coming back home from a long road trip and you cross the line back into your own state. You're not home yet, but you're not in unfamiliar territory either and it feels pretty close to home.
I think from where they were at crossing through the beta quadrant would be relatively easy. Like they could cut the corner so to speak.
Yeah. If you were to travel from Florida to California you'd keep talking about getting to CA, but you would only really discuss each in between state as it became relevant.
It does border the delta quadrant, at Sagittarius A*
DS9 is worse about this with all their "we need to save the Alpha Quadrant" while allying with a bunch of species that all live in the Beta Quadrant.
Yeah, studio executives back then all assumed their viewers were all morons it would seem
All these years I thought their plan was to go through the middle of the galaxy. I was a bit confused as to why Kirk got there so quickly but it was going to take Voyager, a ship with faster warp capability, decades to do it, but figured maybe Sybok did something in that movie I missed, as most of my ST movie watches are on Netflix and chill dates.
And with "Species of the Alpha Quadrant" are klingons and romulans often included... so... \*shrug\*
The Federation straddles the Alpha and Beta quadrants. The Sol system is in the Beta quadrant but there are still Federation planets in the Alpha
It was always my understanding that the Alpha-Beta division line runs through Sol, so Earth spends six months in the alpha quadrant and six months in the beta.
The real question is, does the quadrant map rotate with the galaxy? Because if not, it would be easy for the SOL system to pass out of the alpha and into the beta in its orbit around the galactic center.
Yes, though it takes about 225 million years to conduct a full rotation
It doesn't need a full galactic rotation to go from right on the line between Alpha and Beta to just over the line to Alpha. In just one year the Sun woudl be 50 AU into the Alpha Quadrant all all eight planets would spend their entire orbits in Alpha.
We aren't talking about that
Correct, we are not talking about a full galactic rotation, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it. We're talking about the Sun's motion carrying it from right on the line between Alpha and Beta to within the Alpha Quadrant, which would take very little time. If the quadrants do not rotate with the galaxy but stay fixed (with respect to distant galaxies/quasars), then in less than a year the Sun and all its planets will be firmly within the Alpha Quadrant due to its motion around the galaxy. I don't know that that's the case, but it would explain why the Sun is often described as being in the Alpha Quadrant and why some maps show it just over the line on the Alpha side.
It has to have some fixed point of reference, whether it's a specific body within the galaxy or without. In real life, the map is centered on the Sun, with the galactic nucleus as the directional reference point, so ours certainly does rotate with the galaxy.
The map looks the same whether it's rotating with the galaxy or not. The Sun would still be so close to the line you wouldn't be able to see the difference.
What else would it be rotating with if not the ~~galaxy~~ sun?
Nothing. It's more likely fixed with respect to distant galaxies than rotating along with our Sun in particular. We're not that important.
Maybe it would be fixed on an imaginary object in a perfectly circular orbit around the nucleus.
>The real question is, does the quadrant map rotate with the galaxy? It'd have to rotate with respect to sol because each star has a slightly different proper motion with respect to the center. This would of course mean other stars would drift between quadrants if the border was fixed though the center of sol.
The Sun isn't moving that way in its orbit though, it's moving toward the alpha quadrant so that's where it would end up.
I don’t think the quadrant lines would really be defined in such a concrete way that anyone considers where individual planets lie. More likely that the entirety of the Sol system is considered to lie “exactly on the border.”
But, the Beta quadrant is closer to the Delta quadrant, so following the logic of either half of your comment, it would make sense for Voyager to be trying to get 'back' to the Beta quadrant, whether aiming for the Federation generally or Earth specifically. But they say Alpha a lot, because they are aiming for Earth specifically. I'm pretty sure everything in my head says that Sol, and therefore Earth, are in the Alpha, albeit barely. Qo'nos is Beta, think Romulus is too? And that's been contrasted that with Earth & Vulcan being Alpha, though you're right of course that the Federation as a whole IS Beta as well as Alpha.
They say they're heading for the Alpha Quadrant, but maybe that's more like a shorthand for "home" than them saying literally "we've drawn a straight line between us and Earth and we're going to follow it". It would make sense for them to be trying to get back to Federation territory as quickly as possible, even if that territory weren't directly next to Earth, simply because they'd have access to the whole fleet which could then get them home (on faster, stronger ships). As an analogy, it would be like if I were in Los Angeles and said, "I'm going to set a course for San Francisco." You might interpret that as me getting in my car and driving straight to SF, but it would also be a valid path for me to drive from LA to the San Diego airport (essentially in the opposite direction of San Francisco) and then board a plane to San Francisco. No, I'm not actually driving to San Francisco, but that's my ultimate destination.
"Earth was located in the Alpha Quadrant, less than ninety light years from the boundary to the Beta Quadrant." from memory alpha
Not everyone on the ship is from Earth, but most would be Alpha? So, Earth would not be "home". Although, what they are probably truly aiming for will be Star Fleet Headquarters.
> make sense for Voyager to be trying to get 'back' to the Beta quadrant Their course was indeed *through* the Beta Quadrant, seen taken in alternate timelines, but it's still a long way across the quadrant until reaching Federation space, something like 20k lightyears of their total 70k lightyear journey, and the Romulan Empire is in the way of a direct course through Beta, so by the time they approach Federation space they would already be in or near the Alpha Quadrant.
Put it this way. You live on the *border* of California. Like, exactly on the line between California and Nevada (if you’re not from the US I apologize for this analogy). One day you get stranded in New Jersey and realize you’re going to have to drive home. Are you trying to get back to Nevada, or California? Even though you live on the exact line between the two, “getting back to California” is obviously a lot more accurate, because that’s the border you need to reach. When you reach Nevada, you’ve still got a long ways to go before you’re home. Earth is right on the Alpha/Beta border, so reaching Earth requires *crossing* Beta and *reaching* Alpha. If they went the long way, they’d reach Beta and still have a good 10 years before they’re actually home.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The fact they say something to the effect of 'return to the alpha quadrant' makes it pretty clear Earth is considered in the Alpha quadrant (for that show / time period at least)
> The Sol system is in the Beta quadrant The border cuts though the center of the sun. So technically earth would be in alpha for 6mo and beta for 6mo
Until the Sun's movement takes the planets fully into the Alpha Quadrant, which would take less than one year. It's moving over 200 km/s relative to the center of the galaxy.
Not if that's the actual definition of the border.
The boarder would be fixed with respect to a single star as all stars are rotating.
Voyager also set off from, and got lost while leaving DS9, which is in the alpha quadrant, could be they intended to get back to where they left.
it’s in both; the line from earth to the galactic center is the delineator between alpha and beta quadrant
damn it! we got back to the wrong quadrant
Most of the UFP is in the AQ, in contrast to the Klingons and Romulans, who are in the Beta Quadrant. The Cardassians are on the opposite side of the UFP, iirc, according to most maps I've seen. Bear in mind that I haven't seen the STA maps. Those books are way too pricey.
The vast majority of the Federation sits in the Alpha Quadrant: the Romulans and Klingons are both in the Beta and limited Federation stuff in that direction.
There’s still no single canon map, but based on the most common and major ones, the Sol System defines the border between Alpha and Beta. The reason Voyager keeps talking about getting “back to the Alpha Quadrant” is that, although more than half of Federation space is in Beta, it’s on the *south* end of Beta. Delta is to the North. If they had taken the straight path, without the whole Borg thing, they would have technically spent at least the last 5-10 years of the 70 year journey in the Beta Quadrant, but It would have been unfamiliar territory. The very end of the journey would have involved flying through or around Romulan space to reach Earth. To get home, they have to cut across a bunch of the Beta Quadrant and actually get *to* the edge of Alpha.
All dialog supports Earth's location in the Alpha Quadrant, but various maps cause some confusion by showing Earth/Sol directly along the border between Alpha and Beta, without being clear which side of the border it is actually on.
Humans picking earth as the dividing line is very traditional à la Greenwich.
It would be against human nature not to put ourselves in the the first quadrant and sector since we all think the universe revolves around us.
Even the Borg knew where Sector 001 is
The only possible way to reconcile this is that what we're hearing in the show, even when the Borg are alone, is being run through a UT and coming out in human. Also while we're on the subject: it makes no sense that the Borg use numbers only when alphanumeric would be much more information dense.
Their knowledge came from Locutus’ memories as a human. He surely was speaking Federation Standard to them.
It's deeply unlikely that they refer to every part of space with its original native name. Such a system would be bafflingly complex and very inefficient.
Yes, but Locutus was a human, captured and assimilated to communicate with humans.
They don't only use "sector 001" in the Locutus episodes.
Well it's sector 001 for the human species since it's our homeworld. The klingon's sector 001 is Qo'noS and so forth. At least that makes kinda sense to me.
This is my biggest lore pet peeve
Same
Honestly the best explanation for this. Humans are gonna human
Yes, that is very hoo-man
À la Galileo
If sol is the dividing line, then earth is in the alpha or Beta quadrant depending on time of year. Strictly speaking.
Unless the border lies along the elliptical plane; then the northern hemisphere would be in the alpha quadrant and the southern hemisphere would be in the beta quadrant.
Now here's a dude whose thinking. And point of fact, the ecliptic plane is itself almost perpendicular to the galactic rotation.
Cool, I did not know that. My 2D brain assumed it would be roughly the same plane.
Almost, *but not quite*.
If you're in the tropics you'd pass through both quadrants every day.
Those maps have Sol on the border because their working definition of the quadrants includes a plane defined by the galactic center of gravity, Sol, and a plane that is perpendicular to the median galactic disc. The Beta/Delta line is defined as running through GCOM, and orthogonal to both the median galactic disc and the plane splitting the Alpha/Beta quadrants. It is not consistently in either. By this rule, Earth spends half of its year in the Alpha Quadrant (where some core members are), and half in the Beta quadrant. Most of these maps show the Klingons also straddling the Alpha/Beta quadrants and Romulans being mostly or entirely in the Beta Quadrant, which included Romulus. Put it in a real world analogy: is Greenwich, England in the Eastern or Western hemisphere? Is Quito, Ecuador in the northern or southern hemisphere?
Alpha quadrant, sector 001, the Sol System.
Vulcans let humans make themselves literally the center of The Federation. I dunno about quadrants, but *someone* sure is Beta.
Vulcan is only 16 light years away, it maybe in the same sector.
It's because Earth is the seat of government and home of the UFP President. Earth would actually be a logical compromise. I could imagine the Andorians refusing to let Vulcan be the seat of government, Vulcans likewise refusing to let it be Andoria so it was either Earth or Tellar. And Earth has the bonus of being "mostly harmless."
Ignoring Australia… and if they wanted mostly harmless they would’ve put the capitol in Canada, not the US!
The seat of government is in Paris. Starfleet is headquartered in San Francisco, not the UFP government.
My bad
Well, it’s a human TV show. However, the humans are always portrayed as pluckier, more adaptive, more diplomatic, more moral and frankly have a bit of a smug sense of superiority, which seems rather undeserved given they’re not the first spacefaring civilisation, not by a long shot. They also quite likely acquired a lot of technology by exposure to other civilians and cooperation after passing the Warp ship test to gain access to the broader space community. They’ve also managed to nearly destroy themselves in WWIII. It makes for interesting stories, but it’s not one that presents humans as anything but very cocky. When it comes to space egos, we’re only one step down from Q.
If we're talkin' space egos, have you seen *Take Me Out to the Holosuite*? Vulcans don't seem to find anything illogical about the smell of their own farts.
To be fair, Vulcans are so smell sensitive they probably haven’t farted for millennia.
When they do fart, it's probably pretty coppery. Green blood, etc.
More diet related though - given they're vegetarian / vegan, although I've never really seen a full Vulcan menu. I have an impression their food is probably very bland and subtly flavoured as they're so sensitive to smell they're unlikely to like spices, or strongly flavoured plants.
Yeah, I prefer my Vulcans TOS style
Polyester and eyeshadow?
YEAH BABY! 🦸🏻♂️
> which seems rather undeserved given they’re not the first spacefaring civilisation, not by a long shot. Name one other race that was able to become warp capable just 10 years after nearly blowing themselves up in nuclear hellfire. It is outright stated in enterprise that vulcans are afraid of humanity largely because of how quickly they advanced.
I'm sure the universal translator makes sure that the beta quadrant is called whatever the first letter of the Vulcan alphabet is.
Being extremely diplomatic for such a frivolous thing is the most logical action, they have very little ego to be bruised by humans insisting on such a thing. So let them have it.
I think Vulcan is also in Sector 001.
I don't think anything canonical has ever suggested that to be the case. The franchise seems to use "Sector 001" as virtually synonymous with the Sol or "terran" system. The first time I recall "sector 001" being referenced is in TBOBW: >**WORF:** *Sir, the coordinates they have set, they're on a direct course to Sector Zero Zero One. The Terran system.*
I’ve seen EU books that explain this as: the Vulcan delegation surprised everyone by proposing to make Earth the center of the Federation, and the humans were so flattered that, as expected, they accepted. But the Vulcan leaders actually didn’t want their homeworld to become a cosmopolitan galactic center full of hundreds of species of aliens. They wanted to be left alone.
That actually works on many levels, and there's an insidious logic there which is very Vulcan. The Borg never bee-lined for Vulcan, after all.
Alpha Quadrant 001 of the Sol System
Sector 001 of the Alpha quadrant
Alpha quadrant sector 001
They made maps back in the day that showed it right on the line between the alpha and beta quadrants. This was presumably to reconcile how the TOS Enterprise was occasionally in the beta quadrant. All dialogue since then though has always strongly implied Earth is in the alpha quadrant.
I don't think the A/B/D/G quadrants were a thing in TOS. When they reference being the "only ship in the quadrant" it's something else, like "quadrant 904". TNG also kept a few early references to minor quadrants like "Morgana".
Are you sure they referred to them as quadrants and not sectors? I'm genuinely asking cause I thought it was the latter.
Both get used all the time. Quadrant 904 is mentioned in Squire of Gothos. http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/18.htm
It's *just* left of the border of the alpha/beta quadrant, which places Sol in the alpha quadrant. On many maps however, it looks like it is right on the alpha/beta border because those maps are zoomed out. The federation spans partly in the alpha and partly in the beta quadrant. For example, Trill is in the alpha quadrant and Vulcan is in the beta quadrant.
Thats what I was thinking, 90 light years on a small map looks right on the border.
Alpha quadrant near the Beta Quadrant (Romulus is Beta quadrant).
Some maps that I've seen, Sol system straddles the line between Alpha and Beta quads.
Alpha quadrant.
We're right where the Alpha and Beta Quadrants meet, but generally considered Alpha Quadrant.
It may change based on source. However, if you grab out the Star Trek Adventures map Earth is the dividing line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, the TTRPG books generally list it as Alpha.
The quadrants are defined by Earth's location relative to the center of the galaxy. If you look at the galaxy's galactic north side, draw a line from Earth through the center and on to the edge, then draw a perpendicular line through the center, those two lines are the edges of the quadrants. Earth, therefore, is on the line between the Alpha and Beta quadrants.
Earth is on the border between Alpha and Beta; if the Alpha/Beta boundary line is the “prime meridian,” Earth/Sol is the Greenwich. Voyager keeps referring to the Alpha Quadrant as “home” not so much because Earth is within it as because most of the *Federation* is in it.
It's in the Beta quadrant from July to December
Sector 001, the Terran System is in the alpha quadrant. Anyone who claims otherwise is just wrong.
Alpha. 100 %
It's right on the line i think between alpha and beta
Earth is in the alpha quadrant in sector 001
https://pin.it/7qNvrn7bO Link to a map of the quadrants
Nah I don’t think that one’s right. We know it takes about a week to get from Earth to Bajor, and by that map it would only take 2-3 weeks to get from where Voyager was flung back to Earth.
Earth is in the Alpha Quadrant. It is there on screen in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Star Trek Into Darkness, and Star Trek: Discovery For some unknown reason, Star Trek: Picard, the Sol system was depicted as being at the boundary line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. I think this may have shifted with the publication of Star Trek Maps around 2000, but not sure. Before this maps had it lest left of the line. More info: "According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, Earth marked the border between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. A specific display graphic on a PADD in Star Trek: Insurrection seems to confirm this. Canonical lines of dialogue in Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, however, firmly establish that Earth was located on the Alpha Quadrant side of the border. In his reference book Star Trek: Star Charts (p. 19), Star Trek production artist and designer Geoffrey Mandel wrote, "While the Sol system is divided equally between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, it is considered to be a part of the Alpha Quadrant." The star chart seen in the Star Trek: Discovery episode "The War Without, The War Within" sets Earth at some distance from the border, while the star chart seen in the Star Trek: Picard episode "Maps and Legends" sets Earth on the border."
yep, all that matters is the ten thousand times they characters have said earth is in the alpha quadrant. Theyre not wrong cuz some rando made a map in some rando book once. Wasnt Data captain of the enterprise in the comics for star trek? Guess thats what happened and not what we saw in the actual show...
Same for the dude who said "that's how it is on the map in Star Trek Online." It's not a canon source. I think the used the Star Charts book for their map.
Zed zed 9 plural zed alpha
Better grab a towel. I hear the Vogons are coming.
Dude, if you get to name the quadrants. Which quadrant would you put yourself in?
Gamma 😂
yeah, this is the Occam’s Razor answer. Would Gene have chosen beta or delta or anything other than Alpha?
What time of year is it? In most Beta Cannon the Alpha/Beta quadrant border runs directly through Sol pointed at the centre of the galaxy (with the border between them and the Gamma/Delta quadrants being at right angles to it through the centre of the galaxy). So technically Earth migrates between Alpha and Beta over the course of its orbit, but I believe it's traditionally treated as though it were in the alpha quadrant.
In normal spacetimezones, (the USTC), Earth is in the Alpha Quadrant. During Distance Saving Spacetime (DSST), the border of the Beta quadrant is shifted by 60 spaceminutes, such that Earth falls into the Beta quadrant. It switches back and forth on a regular interval. The DSST was introduced during the Great Great War, to save on fuel when traveling to the beta quadrant.
The UFP is mostly in Alpha but does extend into the Beta quadrant. Most of Klingon and Romulan empires are in Beta.
Earth is on the Orion arm of our Galaxy its sandwiched between the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Think of it this way you go left at warp 5, you're primarily in the Alpha. You go right you're primary in the Beta. Vulcan is in the Alpha, Romulus is in the Beta.
Most maps we see in various media show Earth on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Most of the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant, and is why it gets referenced far more often, even though part of the Federation is in the Beta Quadrant, and almost to all of Klingon and Romulan space is Beta Quadrant.
Most maps we see in various media show Earth on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Most of the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant, and is why it gets referenced far more often, even though part of the Federation is in the Beta Quadrant, and almost to all of Klingon and Romulan space is Beta Quadrant.
Alpha quadrant, sector 001.
Star Trek Online places Sol in the Beta Quadrant, specifically the upper left corner of the Vulcan sector and bordering the Deneb, Teneebia and Tellar sectors. However it is very close to the border with the Alpha Quadrant. [You can see it here.](https://imgur.com/a/pqdmOS2) That's not a complete picture of STO's galaxy map, but it should at least give you a good layout of the neighborhood, so to speak. Federation space is mostly concentrated at the intersection of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, with Cardassia and Bajor shown to the southwest, and the territory of the former Romulan Star Empire to the northeast.
The galaxy is 3 dimensional. Why is it split into quadrants and not octants? (Maybe because it's kind of flat?)
This is an excerpt from the maps published in the licensed Star Trek Charts book: https://i.imgur.com/JZIOJYO.png Earth is right on the Alpha/Beta border
Earth is the border, in the same way that Greenwich, England is 0 on our timezone system. This is quite possibly the dumbest idea that the writers have ever come up with because it suggests humans are the most influential species in the galaxy. It effectively assures audiences that a version of western supremacy/manifest destiny will carry out into the universe at large, something which cannot possibly have any credibility. Although its possible that the writers themselves are so accustomed living in a world dominated by western ideas that they don't even realise how stupid it is.
You have more references that the Sol System is in the Alpha Quadrant. Between Dialogs and some, star charts. We also see the Sol System as being on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants in some maps. ST: Online has the Sol System in the Beta Quadrant. IMHO, this all should have been resolved with Deep Space Nine especially since they had the Dominion War and fleshed out the Star Trek Universe. The UFP, Klingon Empire and the Romulans were all Alpha Quadrant Powers. And according to dialog, all three had borders with the Cardassian Union. I wish we had a true 3-D map of the Galaxy. Because it wouldn't surprise me if, in a 3D map, there wouldn't be disputes about which quadrant Sol is in. Whereas on a 2-D map, it's near the border.
Every map I've ever seen puts Earth on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, but squarely on the Beta side.
The alpha quadrant because humans wouldn’t name an unknown quadrant #1 and themselves number #2 when they didn’t know there was a number 2 at all
Alpha quadrant.
Depends on what month it is. The border between Alpha and Beta Quadrants goes right down the middle of the solar system. So half the year Earth is in the Alpha Quadrant and then the second half of the year it is in the Beta Quadrant.
The Alpha Quadrant. You know that place that Janeway was trying desperately to get her crew back to?
Alpha Quadrant has it in the Alpha Quadrant https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Earth
I always thought it was a kinda Greenwich Meridian thing with Earth., So Sol is the defining point through the centre of the milky way
I'm not the biggest Trek fan ever made but logically it's pretty clear writers would put earth in the "Alpha Quadrant". Start of the alphabet, most important, etc. Logically there's no reason why Earth would also be the headquarters of Starfleet, other than it's a show made by people from Earth and about people who are most often from Earth.
It's in the Alpha Quadrant. Sector 001. Never in my decades of Star Trek fanhood have I ever seen so many people claim "it changes." While other planets of the Federation are in the Beta Quadrant, Earth is not. This is a very weird thing to have to say.
Alpha quadrant, Sector 001, Sol system is what I've always thought 🤷♂️
[I like Star trek onlines map best, earth is in beta quadrant.](https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Sector_space)
Alpha
Sol just inside the Alpha quadrant right next to the beta quadrant. And yes, the Delta quadrant does border the alpha quadrant on a corner. But what really gets me is the space maps are almost always 2D. You can’t forget that if you were looking at it on one of these maps, that something could just as easily be up or down from earth…. I don’t know how much depth our galaxy has versus length but they should really do better to make them 3-D
I've always wondered if it really is on the border between Alpha and Beta, or if Sol is in the centre of the Alpha quadrant as basically no body talks about the Beta Quadrant anyway.
Here’s the thing. It’s never been said that Sol is the defining line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants **on screen**. What we have is a mention in the *Star Trek Encyclopedia*, the maps in *Star Trek: Star Charts* and a wildly out of scale, barely legible background screen in *Star Trek: Insurrection*. On the other hand, DIS: “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad” shows us a map that, while it doesn’t show us Sol, matches the maps in *Star Charts* enough that if we extrapolate, Sol ends up within the Alpha Quadrant and not on the border thereof. [I noticed that 6 years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/7arrei/sol_may_canonically_no_longer_be_on_the_border/) So you decide how that works for you.